NAFPS Forum

General => Frauds => Topic started by: educatedindian on December 03, 2004, 05:14:20 pm

Title: "Gypsy Shaman" Maggie Wahls, Yaqui, Coma
Post by: educatedindian on December 03, 2004, 05:14:20 pm
Alternately claims to be either Russian or Bulgarian Gypsy, a Castaneda and Andrews follower who claims to teach both Yaqui and Comanche ways online. Debbie, does that gathering she took part in sound like one of Bennie Lebeau's to you?

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/11/prweb182191.htm
Comanche Country Inspires Shaman Elder to Teach the Heart of Shamanism
 A trip through the lands of the Comanche has stirred new energies and caused a demand for teaching the ways of the Shaman. As the interest in Shamanism is on the rise, one Comanche woman has stepped forward to share the old ways with the world.
(PRWEB) November 25, 2004 -- Shaman Elder Maggie Wahls spent the last 14 days drumming, praying and communicating with the grandfathers of the Comanche nation. The urgent message was given to her that she should bring back the old ways and offer them in an online course to all those who feel the call to heal themselves and others. The energies of the planet are stepping up and things seem to be spinning out of control but this energy is a sign that we are ready to personally move up to a new awareness, to embracing the gifts that are already ours.

Fear is on the rise and fear is the one thing that the Comanche heart did not contain. In fact, the Comanche way was the way of the heart. By following one's heart there can be no room for fear. Shaman Elder can show the way to live from one's heart without fear, in complete joy. She teaches how to connect with animal totems and Mother Earth to find one's own power. She shows how to access the Inner Worlds without using any drugs and to bring peace to this planet and to each life in it.

Her course is offered online at www.shamanelder.com and between now and Christams she is offering a special price on the 12 week course where she will walk beside the student offering support and guidance to freedom and joy. Visit her site to learn more.

Shaman Elder Maggie says, "The Comanches were a proud people who boldly fought to the death for what they knew in their hearts was right. Today we need this kind of courage to embrace the love and dispel the fear. The Comanche knew about personal power and how to use it to the benefit of the whole tribe. Do what you are called to do by your heart. Don't worry about what others may think or say. Everyone does what is best for themselves. It is time for you to do the same. Let me show you the way."

http://www.byregion.net/profiles/magawards.html
Philosophy and Comments
I have been a Shaman for 50 years and the ride continues. Does life revolve around you or do you revolve around life? I teach a course in Shamanism at www.shaman.bravehost.com
I live Reiki. I am Reiki. I am the Nagual, the wind and I live under the wing of the eagle.
I was born intuitive and have used my skills in counseling spiritual, emotional and physical needs. I have also used my skills in diagnosing pet health problems and have had two sites offering that service for free. I am a graduate of the Star Fire Animal Communication Course.

A Shamanic Gathering
I recently went to a Shamanic healing for Mother Earth. Twenty threeShamans from different cultures met in Lake Tahoe for 3 days And we sang and danced and prayed together. The first day we built a sweat lodge and purified ourselves for the work we were there to do. The camaraderie was high and we all enjoyed meeting each other. At night we built a large bonfire and roasted chicken and corn around the edges. We then opened our ceremony with a prayer to bless the earth and to bless each one of us. We offered tobacco and burned sage. We passed a talking stick and each had a turn to tell about our homes, our practices and our prayers we brought to this meeting. We ended the night with a song and dance. Some people went into their journeys as we danced but I sang and enjoyed the night air. I climbed into my tent quite worn out from the big day and slept to the aroma of cedar and pine. Very healing.
The next day we went up into the Sierras to an elevation of 7,500 feet where we built a medicine wheel. Everyone participated and each brought something to add to the wheel.
Title: Re: "Gypsy Shaman" Maggie Wahls, Yaqui, Coma
Post by: educatedindian on December 03, 2004, 05:17:10 pm
Then four Native American Shamans held ceremony
dedicated the wheel and offering it purpose for healing the earth. We began a dance and song with drumming and as we danced we saw the wind become visible and turn into a vortex over the medicine wheel. It was white and spinning very fast directly over the center of the wheel and it slowly rose up into the sky and departed taking our prayers for healing and peace with it. It was awesome. I don't think I had ever seen the air so visible before. We went back to our camp and had a wonderful lunch of bread and salmon and vegetables. Everyone was so cooperative and helpful to each other. It was though we had all known each other forever.
There were Native American and South American Shamans and 2 Celtic Shamans, 3 European Shamans like myself and one Shaman from Australia so we were representing the whole world. We spent the afternoon resting and preparing ourselves for the big ceremony that night.
A program had been developed allowing each shaman to give something of his or her own practice to the group. As the sun sank in the west and bonfire reached into the night sky the Native American Shamans began the ceremony with a song to Mother Earth. We all followed them in procession to our seats around the campfire and watched as they did a ceremonial dance honoring the four directions. Then a beautiful prayer was read aloud and time was given to let it rest upon us. The Australian Shaman brought out his didgeridoo and played an ancient song for us. It really took me back to some distant past time, some universal time of antiquity and connected me to all of history, all of time, to the Oneness of everything.
Then the Celtic Shamans sang a song from their culture that was absolutely haunting and by now the whole thing was extremely surreal! The power was being gathered to effect a healing for Mother Earth and all her people.
It was time for the European Shamans to make their offering so the 3 of us put on a play of one of the old fables of our culture. I told the story of the wolf and the eagle while my two fellow Shamans took the roles of the wolf and the eagle in portrayal. You could feel the totem animals present all around us outside the light of the bonfire.
The South American Shamans passed the pipe of tobacco for us all to share. This communion is a unification of all people everywhere and tobacco is a standard gift to the powers that be as well. It is a ritual to establish intent and was a very sacred act by all those present. I took my tote of tobacco and blew the smoke into the bonfire carrying my own intentions of healing for myself, my loved ones and those intentions I had brought with me as requests from friends, students and clients. I could feel those intentions combining with the tobacco smoke of all the other shamans and uniting with the smoke of the bonfire.
Suddenly the bonfire grew to twice its size and the flames leaped into the night sky with incredible vigor. The drums began beating and a song was begun softly in chumash. We all joined in the singing of the song and it slowly gained strength and momentum and speed and volume and then we were all on our feet dancing together and chanting the song openly, freely and with great feeling.
The rest of the evening was great singing and dancing and many people sat to journey in their own way and time. I wore myself out and put myself into my sleeping bag for another wonderful night under the starry night to the smell of cedar and pine and the sound of distant drumming. How beautiful! I will not describe my own personal journey here as it was something very special and private for me alone. But afterwards I found that every intention I had brought with me had indeed been effected.
Title: Re: "Gypsy Shaman" Maggie Wahls, Yaqui, Coma
Post by: educatedindian on December 03, 2004, 05:19:00 pm
The next morning was our last together. We made a wonderful breakfast over open fire of bacon and eggs and pan bread. Then we sat once more in circle and passed the pipe. After an opening prayer and salute we shared the talking stick and gave each shaman a chance to tell about his or her experience the night before. It was fascinating to hear the stories of these great healers as they described their journeys to the Inner Worlds and the beings they encountered there. One shaman told of a healing journey for a patient of his and was sure that a cure had occurred before he even returned home. Others had journeys about healing the Earth Mother. Some had personal journeys about their own practice or an insight to an issue that was bothering them. These were incredible stories from astute healers sharing their wisdom with all of us. I felt so honored to be counted among these people!
We stood and sang one last song together with our arms wrapped around each other in community that would last far beyond just this time and place. We gathered our tents and belongings and made our way back down the mountain to civilization, to our cars and buses and back to our homes. I am so glad I was able to participate in this healing of Mother Earth and to bring my friends and clients healing there as well. I hope someday you too will be able to experience this great feeling of brotherhood and unity in healing.
Aho!
Shaman Elder Maggie Wahls http://www.shamanelder.com
Celtic Ogham Rune Stones
I have done a lot of research on the little known subject of Celtic Ogham Stones. The Ogham is an ancient written language that can still be found on standing stones in Ireland, Scotland and Wales. The alphabet is based upon the characteristics of trees. I think this is what fascinated me most.
I have written a book about the Ogham and the meanings of each letter of its alphabet as it relates to each tree. The reader will learn the history of the Ogham and also learn the mythology, history, uses and spiritual strengths of 20 trees.
The book comes with a set of 20 ogham stones that can be cast much like the runes to answer a question for you from three directions, physical, mental and spiritual.
I am selling the boxed set for $18.95 and for each sale a donation is made to Trees For Life, a non profit organization that is planting fruit trees in developing nations.
I really believe in Trees For Life and so this is my contribution to their effort. Won't you join me in supporting them by purchasing this wonderful book and set of ogham stones for your own education and enjoyment?
Learn more at http://www.freewebs.com/ogham
Title: Re: "Gypsy Shaman" Maggie Wahls, Yaqui, Coma
Post by: Barnaby_McEwan on December 03, 2004, 07:30:49 pm
Quote

quoting Maggie Wahls:
 
Celtic Ogham Rune Stones
I have done a lot of research on the little known subject of Celtic Ogham Stones.


Probably a minor point but I'd bet that her `research' consists of reading Robert Grave's `The White Goddess', which is perhaps best described as *ahem* a work of poetic imagination. This book and its derivatives are the source of the imagined connection between ogham script and trees, and much other neo-pagan whimsy besides. It's not taken seriously by historians or archaeologists though, to give him his due, Graves is one of the major figures of twentieth-century literature.

And of course runic script is not the same as ogham script:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runic_alphabet

http://www.csupomona.edu/~jcclark/ogham/ogh-alph.html
Title: Re: "Gypsy Shaman" Maggie Wahls, Yaqui, Coma
Post by: debbieredbear on December 05, 2004, 11:04:00 pm
I couldn't find any links to her and Bennie. But I did find this link while looking. It's a whole list of twinkie/fraud websites.

http://www.chiron-communications.com/links.html
Title: Re: "Gypsy Shaman" Maggie Wahls, Yaqui, Coma
Post by: AlaskaGrl on December 06, 2004, 01:13:13 am
On that link I noticed:

Twylah Nitsch
c/o Seneca Indian Historical Society
P.O. Box 2313
Orange Park, FL  32067-2313

I didn't know they were here too!  PO Box and all...
She also has a schtick going in NY.    

Linda.
Title: Re: "Gypsy Shaman" Maggie Wahls, Yaqui, Coma
Post by: OneTimeUser on December 07, 2006, 11:48:33 pm
Hi All.

I only joined to draw your attention to somebody that might possibly be a fraud. However, as I am not completely sure, and don't really know how to research this, I thought it wise to pass on the information to people who might know more about this subject. And that's how I came across this forum. So, hopefully you will know what to do with this, or you might even be able to tell me that 'hey, this person's ok!' or that yes, she's a fraud but was exposed ages ago. And I have just made a big boo-boo.  :-\

Here's what I've got:

searching the internet for some 'reading fodder' just before turning in, I came across the website of this person who calls herself Elder Shaman Maggie, aka Shaman Elder Maggie Jean Wahls.

http://www.shamanelder.com/aboutme.htm

Somehow I got the feeling that things weren't as they should be, so I browsed the internet a bit and came up with this very interesting article: http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/world/2006/08/347110.html

About 1/3 down the page (just use control + F and search for 'Maggie') the real interesting bit can be read. Personally, I find the coincidence between the names - Maggie Jean Wahls and Jean (“Maggie???) Wahls Ziegler - too much to be just that, a coincidence.

Coupled with the fact that 'Elder Maggie' states (either on her website or on a website regarding her photography skills) that she lives or has lived both in the Caribean and Florida, and this Ziegler couple was active in Grenada, I think this bears some investigation.

Why do I care? First of all, I hate liars. With a passion. Secondly, I have always found the 'true' native culture to be far more interesting than the 'scattology' shuffled out by New Age groups. The latter always seem to leave out the harsher aspects of both native American culture and the way they were treated. And I can't stand folks who use other people's cultures without so much as a 'thank you' for personal gain.

I also believe that you should stick to your own culture. That means Celtic for people from Ireland and Scotland, Germanic for northern Europeans, etc. And by that I mean that - if you so desperately want to be a shaman, or healer, or whatever gets your knickers in a twist, look for your own roots, not somebody else's. Of course that could prove to be somewhat difficult for a mixed up genetic product like myself, but oh well ...  ;)

Hopefully this is of some use, and my gut instinct doesn't prove me wrong.

With friendly greetings,

Kya Milo
Lioessens, Fryslân
The Netherlands
Title: Re: "Gypsy Shaman" Maggie Wahls, Yaqui, Coma
Post by: educatedindian on December 08, 2006, 03:24:55 am
I think your instinct was right, though I'm now sure these are the same two Maggie Wahls. Same website, but her claims keep changing.

Most NDNs would agree with you. Some of our best support from non-Natives comes from people of European pagan backgrounds.

http://www.shamanelder.com/medicinebags.htm
"Shaman Elder Maggie Wahls has been a practicing Shaman for over 50 years. She recently received a dispensation to reach out to those who have a desire to learn about a Shaman’s path and now offers an online course at www.shamanelder.com. Many people on this earth have been Shamans in other lives and only need to reconnect with their lost knowledge and skills to bring shamanic healing back to Mother Earth and its peoples. This is Shaman Elder’s goal. Please join her ongoing course to learn more neat tools of shamanism. The cost is $135.00 USD for a 12 week one on one intensive online experience.
Copyright © 2005 Shaman Elder Maggie Jean Wahls. All rights reserved.
Please maintain this honor code: with the exception of one print copy for the personal use of each subscriber, the copyrighted material from the Shaman Elder Maggie Jean Wahls courses and sites may not be reproduced, forwarded, or redistributed by any means, print or electronic. The material may not be incorporated into other programs/training. Sorry to have to put this here but theives have tried to steal these holy teachings for their own material gain.
Disclaimer: All material provided by Shaman Elder Maggie Jean Wahls is provided for educational purposes only. Consult your own physician regarding the applicability of any opinions or recommendations with respect to your symptoms or medical condition."

Really covers all the bases, doesn't she? She's genuine, it's those other thieves, she claims. Whining about material gain, and then copyrighting and charging for teaching?

Claims to be an Apache shaman.
 ;D
Sure you are...silly me.

"Through the use of her lifelong practices in Traditional Shamanic techniques, dreaming and trance work, Elder Shaman Maggie reaches within to an individual's eternal soul, unblocking the paths and tunnels to one's own innate healing abilities allowing one's life force to burn brightly once again, enlivening peace, abundance, joy, and creativity. Shamanic healing works on all facets of the person - past, present and future - restoring and opening the natural lines for personal success in mind, body and spirit....

 Shaman Elder Maggie comes from a traditional shamanic lineage,  has a  Doctorate of Divinity, is an Ordained Minister and has been counseling online for free for 35 years. She is also a Reiki Master Teacher and a Certified Facilitator of Adult Learning. She is finishing her third book and looking for a publisher....

She learned from her grandmother who learned from her grandmother back four hundred years to the country of the Ukraine before Christianity. My father's ancestry also stretches back 130 years to the Apache nation. I did my first healing at age 3 and my first shamanic journey at age ten. Kind of young for that but my grandmother was sick and dying by then. She was an awesome woman! She taught me everything I know today."

Don't go blaming your grandma for your own confused mess you're peddling.

"I wanted to see if shamans around the world and across the ages agreed on anything. My expectations were low considering the thing with religion. So I traveled around the world again using contacts I had made before and was able to study with some very powerful shamans in Europe, South America, North America and the Caribbean. I lived with them and learned from them and you know what I found out? That shamans universally agree on EVERYTHING!"

 ;D
Sure they do...

"And the river was the Pecos River where the fall leaves were floating down like a beautiful quilt and there I could feel my ancestors lives woven in time with the myriad colors and flow of water as it flows through our souls and spirits to join us, to go through us into each other and into the world, Mother Earth."

Fall leaves on the Pecos River? She obviously has never been to west Texas.

"But my grandfather is spirit sat with me as I drummed my prayers into the heavens. My prayers for you and for all my students. My prayers for safety and income enough to live and be strong. And my grandfather shows me my heart. It is bright red and orange and beating like a brilliant flame flaring in the night. And he says to me "You have the heart of the Apache." And I know my ancestry and I know the Apaches. They were a proud people with an incredibly strong connection to Mother Earth. They felt that Mother Earth gave them all they needed and they were rich beyond wealth with her. And She loved them and wanted them to have everything she provided. They took her water and her buffalo and her grasses and her shade and made a home with her...."

Yeah, right. You do know, unless you're claiming to be Naishan Apache, that Apaches did very little buffalo hunting?

Didn't think so.

"So grandfather says I have a Apache heart....I teach self empowerment. I teach the Apache way.
And so Grandfather says to me as I stand on the banks of the Pecos River, in my homeland, that I have the heart of a Apache. And I start to cry. Grandfather is right. I am honored to carry the heart of a Apache."

She seems to take a perverse delight in being as crassly commercial as she can.

http://www.selfhealingexpressions.com/course_overview_24.shtml
"Begin your journey now! Have each lesson of this course delivered to your email inbox on the start date and at the frequency of your choosing by clicking the Enroll Now button.
Money Back Guarantee
Course Fee: $34.95
Take advantage of our 2 for 1 Offer!
Take this course with a buddy. If you enroll now, you have the option to take this course with a friend for no additional course fee! The free course will be a gift from you to your friend."
Title: Re: "Gypsy Shaman" Maggie Wahls, Yaqui, Coma
Post by: TRIBALMOONS@yahoo.com on December 13, 2006, 03:03:20 am
Now either I am just plain stoopid......or ignorant call me whatever you will.....but what shaman advertises on the internet anyway??? Besides a Plastic fake one???
Title: Re: "Gypsy Shaman" Maggie Wahls, Yaqui, Coma
Post by: runningdeer on August 25, 2009, 05:12:27 am
Aho everyone
You know I know that there are predetors out there claiming to be healers and shamans ect. and no I do not like to see people get charged big bucks for spiritual lessons or whatever you want to call them.
I see it this way NAFPS wants to call out the fruads right? well if some non-native wanted to learn the native way and honestly walked their path why not let them learn? If a jew wants to become a baptist is this so wrong? I attend many intertribal pow wows and I think that it is great that if someone of any faith or walk of life wants to gain knowledge about our culture why not teach them? I am proud to have cherokee/french canadian bloodlines and would guide onto their path. would I charge? NO would I accept a loaf of bread for it? yep, because lets face it alot of people don't feel like they have received anything unless they some how repay you. I have studied with a shaman by the name of Maggie Wahls and she has done me no harm. I talked to here about the payment issue and she said that she has to eat to. She lives a very simple life on her land and yes, she does do some teaching on the internet but she is harmless.
runningdeer

[Al's note: Topic merged with older one.]
Title: Re: "Gypsy Shaman" Maggie Wahls, Yaqui, Coma
Post by: Superdog on August 25, 2009, 02:42:15 pm
Aho everyone
You know I know that there are predetors out there claiming to be healers and shamans ect. and no I do not like to see people get charged big bucks for spiritual lessons or whatever you want to call them.
I see it this way NAFPS wants to call out the fruads right? well if some non-native wanted to learn the native way and honestly walked their path why not let them learn? If a jew wants to become a baptist is this so wrong? I attend many intertribal pow wows and I think that it is great that if someone of any faith or walk of life wants to gain knowledge about our culture why not teach them? I am proud to have cherokee/french canadian bloodlines and would guide onto their path. would I charge? NO would I accept a loaf of bread for it? yep, because lets face it alot of people don't feel like they have received anything unless they some how repay you. I have studied with a shaman by the name of Maggie Wahls and she has done me no harm. I talked to here about the payment issue and she said that she has to eat to. She lives a very simple life on her land and yes, she does do some teaching on the internet but she is harmless.
runningdeer

Hello runningdeer and welcome to the board.  

Let's make something clear.  NAFPS does NOT discourage people from gaining knowledge.  In fact, you'll find that people here will direct you to find knowledge for yourself, but to do so from knowledgeable sources.  If you wanted to learn about Cherokee people, the only true way you'll ever do that is to involve yourself with a Cherokee community.  It's not the type of thing that people want to hear all the time, but it's true true true.  Native spirituality (spiritual ways/religion...you get my drift right?) is communal, tribal specific and often tied directly to the land that it originates in.  Even among the same tribe you'll find that as you go from community to community things are practiced differently.  One of the things you'll also find if you engage in Native communities is that all the things you wish to learn can be learned there for free (it's just a way of life....not a degree, doctorate, certificate or any other "title" given to it).  Another strong factor is the language.  Cherokee ways are only really learned from a Cherokee community and in the Cherokee language.  Learning the language is learning the blueprint of a culture and the way people think, the humor, the spirituality, everything are all tied into the way it's communicated, which is NOT the same as learning in English.  I realize that moving away from your home and engaging in a Cherokee community is not something done easily and I'm often asked about what a person should do if that's just not possible....where can you go??  why can't you learn from someone outside the community??

Once you remove spiritual ways from their context (the land, the community, the language) then much of the meaning is lost.  What you get then is someone's interpretation of what those ways are.  That's what you get with Maggie Wahls.  I've reviewed her site.  I have a few problems with the information I see on her site.  http://www.shamanelder.com/

She makes a claim of teaching "traditional indigenous shamanism" and not the modern new age shamanism others teach.  Let's examine that for a moment.  What is "traditional indigenous shamanism"?  What tradition?  What people?  Is she involved with that community actively?  Does she speak the language?  

I noticed she said she learned from her grandmother who traces her ways back to Asia and on her father's side she has some Apache heritage.  So is she teaching Asiatic shamanism (which is where the term "shaman" comes from and also where the concept originates...that title is given to Natives by non-Natives who see similarities and lump it all together when in reality, there are stark contrasts and no Native spiritual leader involved in their community calls themselves a "shaman") or is she teaching Apache ways??  Which Apache community (they're not all the same)?  Does she speak Apache???

From what I've read on her site she teaches a mishmash of different things from a lot of different cultures...a little here, a little there...so where is the "tradition" in interpreting little bits and pieces?

There are also a few things on her website that are flat out wrong.  There's a lot to mention, but I'll only talk about one thing as an example and point out a passage she included on "smudging" not written by her, but reprinted on her website as legitimate information with permission from the author.

This is from an article called "SMUDGING: HOW TO DO IT--HOW NOT TO DO IT" By: Michelle Chihacou White Puma Klein-Ha
----------------------------------------------
excerpt:
"Sweetgrass

Very important to the Sioux and Cherokee nations, its botanical name is Hierochloe Oderata. In these tribes, the sweetgrass is braided like hair braids. It could be burnt by lighting the end of it, or (more economically) by shaving little bits of it onto charcoal in a brazier. Again, use charcoaled Mesquite (I believe it comes packaged for barbecue use under the brand name "Red Arrow") to burn it, not pressed charcoal tablets. Sweetgrass is burnt after smudging with sage, to welcome in good influences after the bad had been driven out. Sweetgrass is very rare today, and traditional Plains people have been attempting to protect the last of it. Myself, I believe that Cedar, which is not endangered, can safely be used this way. Also Pinon pine needles (used more frequently by the Southwest Teneh, like the Navajo and Apache as well as the Pueblo people and the Zuni) and Copal (used by the Yaqui and in ancient times by the Azteca and the Maya) have similar effect. The three mentioned here are redily available either through gathering yourself or, in the case of copal resin, from any good herb shop."

-----------------------------------

Sweetgrass is not endangered or rare and also not only used by Cherokee and Sioux tribes.  In fact it grows wild and is abundant enough that it's sold freely and used as decoration as well as for spiritual purposes.  The barest of research (google) will let you know all that so you can check it for yourself.  It doesn't grow in North America only either...sweetgrass also grows in Europe and Asia.  The claim that it's "very rare" and that traditional Plains people have been attempting to protect the last of it are both WRONG....fallacies.  The statement about burning sweetgrass after smudging with sage is something I've NEVER heard...I'm not saying that statement can't be true somewhere in some community, but it's not THE WAY or even a common practice as the author writes it here.  Once again...it's interpretation and I think from the example you can see how far interpretation is from the actual truth.

I realized Maggie did not write this article, but she includes it as information for you to learn and even thanks the author for it so the person you're learning from seems to be teaching things she doesn't have a whole lot of firsthand knowledge about.....and she charges for that lack of knowledge.

I'm not sitting here making fun on her or attempting to put her down.  I'm sure she has the best of intentions, but she's another that claims to have had a "calling" to teach the wisdom she's learned, when the reality is....she's got a wholllllllle lot to learn herself.  

Her website is also inundated with things to buy.  CD's, books etc.  Even medicine bags, there's even a little Paypal window on the bottom of that page...just include what you want your bag to be made for (requested healing purpose) and she'll gather all you need and send it to you and if you wear it for 21 days....you just might be healed.  Do i even need to go there???  If you'll buy this one I'll gather a few cedar branches and put 'em in a bag for you and send it to you for $15 instead of $29.....it's the same thing....you put a price tag on it then it becomes something you believe is "entitled" to you because you paid for it....if you're having financial woes or maybe unhealthy because of lifestyle factors (weight, smoking, etc) then her bag willl not help you unless you're willing to help yourself.  A medicine bag will not "heal" a financial woe....managing money, not spending more than you can afford and working to get ahead will help that and you'll find that if you follow that common wisdom, your financial woes will go away independant of buying her bag.

So in all reality....you paid Maggie to teach you common sense bagged up in a "traditional indigenous shamanism" (still don't know what that means) package.  

I'm not saying you should quit going to her...if you find what you need there...then go, but be knowledgeable that what you're learning is not "traditional indigenous" anything, but Maggie Wahls interpretation of things she classifies as "shamanism"(which could be anything).  


I worry about you a little bit runningdeer as you call yourself a shaman in training (you used different words  i know) and seem ok with someone breaking the one cardinal rule....never pay to pray.  If you continue down that route you'll find a whole lot of people willing to tell you just what you want to hear for your price and the sense of entitlement from what you learn will begin to take you over you'll find yourself selling your soul on the internet and making a living off of promising better days to those you would victimize for their $$$ ('cause you gotta eat too right???)

I hope you take my words in a good way, I'm not talking down to you, I give you much more credit than that.  Step back and take a look at Maggie objectively.  Apaches, Cherokees...all tribes have been practicing their own spirituality since the beginning of time without a price tag on the internet...those among their communities that take up the role as healers do so as servants of their community and land....not the other way around...and they still eat without charging a price.  Don't buy it.

Superdog
Title: Re: "Gypsy Shaman" Maggie Wahls, Yaqui, Coma
Post by: educatedindian on August 25, 2009, 03:47:59 pm
Aho everyone
You know I know that there are predetors out there claiming to be healers and shamans ect. and no I do not like to see people get charged big bucks for spiritual lessons or whatever you want to call them.
I see it this way NAFPS wants to call out the fruads right? well if some non-native wanted to learn the native way and honestly walked their path why not let them learn? If a jew wants to become a baptist is this so wrong? I attend many intertribal pow wows and I think that it is great that if someone of any faith or walk of life wants to gain knowledge about our culture why not teach them? I am proud to have cherokee/french canadian bloodlines and would guide onto their path. would I charge? NO would I accept a loaf of bread for it? yep, because lets face it alot of people don't feel like they have received anything unless they some how repay you. I have studied with a shaman by the name of Maggie Wahls and she has done me no harm. I talked to here about the payment issue and she said that she has to eat to. She lives a very simple life on her land and yes, she does do some teaching on the internet but she is harmless.
runningdeer

[Al's note: Topic merged with older one.]

I wonder why you went to a woman making lots of contradictory claims about teaching Apache ways, Comanche ways, Yaqui ways, etc, who also says she is Gypsy, if you are yourself Cherokee?

To go to your earlier example, should I go to someone claiming to be Jewish to learn Baptist teachings? Would I do that as an Episcopalian? Or would it just be very confused to do that?

As far as payment, my answer to her as simple: Let her get a real job like everyone else. Is she afraid to work? Many medicine people have "regular" jobs". Or more often they are being supported by their communities. (I realize many elders are not being properly supported, but that is another issue, though an important one.)

What I strongly suspect is that Wahls is not backed up in what she does by her alleged community, whichever of the many she now claims. Fact is she's changed who she claims to be and what she claims to teach quite a bit. Like SD points out, what you've gotten from is some vague claim of teaching indigenous ways. What is that supposed to even mean? She's teaching all the hundreds of different tribes' beliefs? It can take a lifetime to properly learn a single tradition. If she's claiming to teach many, likely she doesn't know any of them especially well. More likely, she's teaching a Nuage knockoff of a supposed generic Native tradition. I see her teaching a fraud like Castaneda. I see her doing a Nuage imitation of medicine wheels, which I don't think is even a Comanche traiditon. She is spreading many falsehoods. And by doing that, she is harming you and others.

Why not go to your Cherokee elders instead?
Title: Re: "Gypsy Shaman" Maggie Wahls, Yaqui, Coma
Post by: oh gee hna luh on September 01, 2009, 07:11:55 pm
She must be another on of these Don Juan readers. You know I find it just amazing how many of these Yaqui shamans are popping up around here in Az. I swear they read Don Juan and then I guess that is like going through seminary for them, BAM, they're a shamman. Funny, I know for a FACT that Yaqui Most Yaqui ceremonies are CLOSED to NON community memebers. There are a few that are open, like during Lent, but not even all of those are open to Non-comms. In fact they will let you know this ceremony is closed to tourists, VERY matter of factly. But we see them every year when my children have their ceremonies, gathering around and soaking up the spirituality and making mental pictures of regalia and traditional dress.
Title: Re: "Gypsy Shaman" Maggie Wahls, Yaqui, Coma
Post by: RayoDeSol on June 21, 2010, 08:10:46 pm
Has anyone looked into this? I did a search, but wasn't able to find anything relevant.

Shaman Elder Maggie http://www.shamanelder.com/


Registrant of website:
 Web Daemon Inc.
 2119 - 8 Avenue S.E.
 Suite #100
 Calgary, Alberta T2G 0N9
 CA

 Domain name: SHAMANELDER.COM

 Administrative Contact:
    Kuzik, Rick 
    2119 - 8 Avenue S.E.
    Suite #100
    Calgary, Alberta T2G 0N9
    CA
    (403)714-6749
 Technical Contact:
    Kuzik, Rick 
    2119 - 8 Avenue S.E.
    Suite #100
    Calgary, Alberta T2G 0N9
    CA
    (403)714-6749

The META description of the site says: FREE consultations, free courses, free articles by Traditional Shaman Elder ... well, other than a free booklet one can pay for everything, for example medicine bags for $19,95 up to an online course with a "practicing indigenous Traditional Shaman from the comfort of your own home" for only $135

"Shaman Elder Maggie" writes about her background:
"Aho!
 I is truly my pleasure to share with you what Creator has shared with me! I learned shamanism at the knee of my grandmother when I was three. She learned from her grandmother who learned from her grandmother back four hundred years to the country of the Ukraine before Christianity. My father's ancestry also stretches back 130 years to the Apache nation. I did my first healing at age 3 and my first shamanic journey at age ten. Kind of young for that but my grandmother was sick and dying by then. She was an awesome woman! She taught me everything I know today.

When she died I went off to college and began to study the religions of the world. I was looking for the things that they all believed in common. I could not find it in books so I packed my bags and set off around the world to see first hand. I lived with many teachers, learned every major religion out there, practiced many of them and found they only agree on one thing. that there is some higher power. Well kind of disappointing to me.

I went home and got my doctorate of divinity became a minister and had a congregation of 300 souls for three years. People would come and listen to my sermons about God's love and walking your path and they expected that to be enough to save their little souls! It was somehow my job to walk their path for them , I felt like an enabler so I left the congregation. I still counsel for free one on one today and have been doing so for 35 years.

So then I decided to see about shamanism. I had continued to practice what my grandmother taught me quietly but I wanted to see if shamans around the world and across the ages agreed on anything. My expectations were low considering the thing with religion. So I traveled around the world again using contacts I had made before and was able to study with some very powerful shamans in Europe, South America, North America and the Caribbean. I lived with them and learned from them and you know what I found out? That shamans universally agree on EVERYTHING!
Wow!
Unbelievable!
Everything that my grandmother taught me was being taught in every culture in every time forever! Now that knocked my socks off and I went home and began to practice publicly!

Then one day about two years ago I was told that Creator would write this course and bring the students who needed this knowledge. And so I asked if there could be at least one person who would find their path in this course, realize their power, find healing in an awesome and radical way through this work. And you know what, there have been hundreds! of people who have found healing and purpose and strength here!

 I am awed at the results of Creator's work in this course. I am honored and humbled to be a part of Creator's work here. I am thrilled to offer you what Creator wrote for you and to give you the guidance and friendship that is given to me. This is my path, my walk to teach you to guide you and to love you. To give you back your full power and authority to walk your path, not mine. And to show you the complete joy and awe of walking your path as a healer. I am glad you are here! You are not here by mistake. Creator brought you here. You can even visit me in person for a vision quest or personalized retreat if you choose. Just send me an email.

Welcome!
Aho!"
Shaman Elder Maggie
Title: Re: "Gypsy Shaman" Maggie Wahls, Yaqui, Coma
Post by: educatedindian on June 21, 2010, 08:59:42 pm
Merged your question with the older threads on her. Our search function is off...

As you can see she keeps changing what she claims to be. For some reason her site's down now. Too much to hope she's out of business though...She shows up online more than Miss Cleo did in those old TV ads for psychics. The two have a lot in common, a similar crass approach about making money and no pretense at all of even pretending to be genuine.

Apparently there's another Maggie Wahls out there, not the same as this one, that's involved in laundering money to Nigeria.
Title: Re: "Gypsy Shaman" Maggie Wahls, Yaqui, Coma
Post by: CuAnnan on August 16, 2010, 11:41:06 pm
Gypsy is a slur, the Rroma culture do not use it to describe themselves.
Celtic is a term that has no bearing in a serious anthropology or cultural setting, as it refers to a grouping of languages that share a common ancestry (P-Celtic {Breton, Welsh, etc} and Q-Celtic {Irish, Scots Gaelic, Manx}). So, because I don't know what she's talking about, I can't really outright say "on this front she is a fraud", she may be attempting to make communication easier. I, personally, detest people using the term "celtic" because it implies that several very seperate and different cultures are similar or the same, which is just not the case, and I believe that it's intellectually dishonest but I'm not certain that saying "this person fails to match my standards for integrity, therefore they are a fraud."
I would be only too glad to get in touch with them and ask. I have kinda a history of doing things like that.
Title: Re: "Gypsy Shaman" Maggie Wahls, Yaqui, Coma
Post by: Ingeborg on August 17, 2010, 02:42:13 pm
Gypsy is a slur, the Rroma culture do not use it to describe themselves.

Although this is true, many gadje (non-Roma) don't know what Roma call themselves. We've got a few Rom persons in Europe doing palmistry and such, and they tend to call themselves 'gipsies' so that the clientele they're aiming at will know what they are. (As an aside, palmistry is no genuine 'gypsy' lore and only practiced on 'gadje' clients, nothing that Roma will do for another Rom.)

However, the European Roma have been christianized long ago, and they had no 'shamans' traditionally. From the excerpt from Wahls' site we learn:

Quote
She learned from her grandmother who learned from her grandmother back four hundred years to the country of the Ukraine before Christianity.

Ahem. This smells of someone not knowing their behind from a hole in the ground in various respects. So it was only fourhundred years ago that Ukraina became xtian? She must be joking!


Title: Re: "Gypsy Shaman" Maggie Wahls, Yaqui, Coma
Post by: ShadowDancer on August 18, 2010, 01:35:48 am
Quote
Quote
She learned from her grandmother who learned from her grandmother back four hundred years to the country of the Ukraine before Christianity.

Ahem. This smells of someone not knowing their behind from a hole in the ground in various respects. So it was only fourhundred years ago that Ukraina became xtian? She must be joking!

Actually, no, not a joke.  It is possible.

Remember that in 1360 the Turks began to expand their holdings.  By 1453 they had captured Constantinople.  In 1648 the Turks had all of North Africa, the Levant, Mesopotamia, Asia Minor, Greece, all the Balkans, part of Austria, Hungary, Romania, Poland, Ukraine and the Crimea.  It wasn't until the late 19th century that the Ottoman Empire began to fall.  Essentially the centuries of Turkish rule created large areas of neutrality with pagan beliefs kept intact and not christianised.

The Slavic regions were largely pagan. It is quite feasible that someone's ancestors were not christian four hundred years ago.  You can find more information if you search on Poland-Lithuania, Ottoman Empire, Slavic, and of course Ukraine.

There are areas of Europe and Asia which never became christian even to this day.  

Now I am in no way saying that just because there are still nonchristian areas of Europe that this woman is not out to make a buck on the gullible.   I really get annoyed by the misuse of the term shaman as she has done.



Title: Re: "Gypsy Shaman" Maggie Wahls, Yaqui, Coma
Post by: Ingeborg on August 18, 2010, 05:45:18 pm
Quote
Remember that in 1360 the Turks began to expand their holdings.  By 1453 they had captured Constantinople.  In 1648 the Turks had all of North Africa, the Levant, Mesopotamia, Asia Minor, Greece, all the Balkans, part of Austria, Hungary, Romania, Poland, Ukraine and the Crimea.

I beg to differ. The Ottoman Empire never held parts of 'Austria', although there were regions which came to Austria later on in history, but never did any of the Austrian mainlands belong to the Ottoman Empire. The sieges of Vienna in 1529 and 1683 both ended in the defeat of the Ottoman army.
Only the Southern part of Ukraine belonged to the Ottoman Empire, and this happened to be a Tatar Khanate with a widely Sunni Muslim population. The Khanate of Crimean Tatars was founded in 1430. It became Ottoman in 1475 already, and Russian in 1774.
The North of Ukraine never belonged to the Ottoman Empire. Poland also never belonged to the Ottoman Empire, neither in whole nor in part.

Although the Ottoman Empire began to fall rapidly at the end of the 19th century/beginning of 20th century, some of its conquests changed ownership (e.g. in the Balkans and North Afrika) before, and this process started much earlier. Following the defeat of the Turkish army at Vienna in 1683, the Pope initiated a so-called Holy League in 1684 (Austria, Republic of Venice, Poland-Lithuania) to launch counter-attacks, as the military crisis of the Ottoman Empire had become apparent, and battles in 1684 and the following years resulted in further territorial losses of the Ottoman Empire. The peace treaty of 1699 e.g. brought about the loss of Central Hungary to Austria, part of the Ottoman regions in Southern Ukraine came to Poland-Lithuania, Dalamatia to Venice. Already in 1695, Russia had gained an access to the Black Sea.


Quote
The Slavic regions were largely pagan.

The process of christianization of the Slavic regions started shortly after 800, and was completed by mid-9th century. Most of the countries became orthodox, while a minority (e.g. the Croatians, and Poland) were converted to Catholicism.

As far as Ukraine is concerned, it was a xtian country since July 28, 988, when Grand Prince Vladimir declared christianity the state religion on the day of his baptism. Vladimir belonged to the dynasty of Kiev Rus which actually was a predecessor of Russia. Ukraine made July 28 a national holiday at the 1000th anniversary in 2008.

To give two more examples:
Hungary's first xtian ruler was King Istvan I (Stephen) who lived from 969-1038. Systematic christianization in Hungary began in 973.
Bulgaria was a xtian country by 864 when King Boris I declared christianity the state religion. The Bulgarian realm was founded in 679, and at that time, there was a Thrakian population living in the country which had been Romanized, and this group of the country's population was xtian before 679.


Quote
There are areas of Europe and Asia which never became christian even to this day.

The areas we're discussing here would be European (the non-xtian regions in Asia being quite obvious) – so which areas are this? Apart from those with a traditional Muslim majority or minority, that is, like e.g. Albania, Bosnia, Bulgaria?

Christianization of Eastern Europe, as I said above, was completed by mid-9th century, and even earlier in Western Europe. This left only very few exceptions, like those peoples belonging to the Finno-Ugric language group living in the North of Russia. Their christianization even started before their conquest by Russia, as early as 16th century, (cf this map: http://www.samojeden-kennel.ch/images/samvolk-sprachkarte.jpg ), although traditional religions were mixed with xtian religion.

Quote
Essentially the centuries of Turkish rule created large areas of neutrality with pagan beliefs kept intact and not christianised.

Unfortunately, this is pretty far from facts. The Ottoman Empire was a Muslim state, and in accordance with Islam, they tolerated those religions called the 'family of the book' (ahl al-kitab), i.e. Xtian and Jewish denominations. Pagan beliefs were not seen as equal to the book religions, and any pagan areas within the Ottoman Empire would have experienced pressure to convert to Islam. There is simply no chance that 'large areas' with pagan beliefs could have survived Ottoman rule.
Book religions, on the other hand, enjoyed religious freedom and were organized in so-called millets, sort of autonomous corporate bodies, which also kept their own jurisdiction to observe in law cases among themselves. In case of a member of such a millet being treated by Ottoman courts, the courts had to observe differences in jurisdiction.
 
However, the regions had been christianized before the Ottoman conquest, and largely remained xtian under Ottoman rule. The Muslim minority in Bulgaria e.g. was caused by Turkish settlers sent to Bulgaria by the Sublime Porte, but there was also a Muslim minority who lived there before, called the Volga-Bulgarians.


Title: Re: "Gypsy Shaman" Maggie Wahls, Yaqui, Coma
Post by: ShadowDancer on August 19, 2010, 02:37:33 am
Thank you. I guess the reference books I used are not accurate.  And here I thought I was reading non-nuage publishers and avoiding the frou-frou non-historical misguided crap by going with books published by University of Pennsylvania Press, Athlone Press and Routledge.  My bad. I apologise.
/me returns to the shadows




Title: Re: "Gypsy Shaman" Maggie Wahls, Yaqui, Coma
Post by: Epiphany on September 21, 2012, 02:20:02 am
http://100shamandays.blogspot.com/ (http://100shamandays.blogspot.com/)

Quote
Raised and trained in Traditional Shamanism by my own Shaman Grandmother who immigrated here from Russia in 1908 from a long lineage of Traditional Siberian and Mongolian Shamans.

http://www.shamanelder.com/ (http://www.shamanelder.com/) Web site opens up with her voice doing her sales pitch. She opens and closes with "Aho".

Title: Re: "Gypsy Shaman" Maggie Wahls, Yaqui, Coma
Post by: Epiphany on June 11, 2013, 10:36:39 pm
Quote
If you donate a tipi: For those willing to donate $4,500 for an authentic Sioux tipi to be erected on the land, we offer their family totem to be painted on that tipi. This family can stay in this tipi free for one week each year up to 5 years as well as receive discounts for activities and workshops.

Quote
Please take the time now to send a donation. LHC operates solely on donations. Your donation will help build a beautiful chapel here for all to enjoy, or a library of spiritual books for all to read, or a meditation hut, or a cafeteria, or an art installation that inspires joy and peace. Any amount will help and your name will be forever inscribed on a plaque at LHC as a founding donor. You may never get the opportunity to breathe life into an ancient sacred site again.

Quote
Life Healing Community conducts rigorous scientific research into the safety and efficacy of complementary and alternative medical therapies used in both children and adults.

Quote
AHO !!
(Yaqui meaning "I speak my truth")

She really really really wants our $$$. http://lifehealingcommunity.com/donations.html (http://lifehealingcommunity.com/donations.html)

Jean Maggie Wahls' company in Winona MO is Life Healing Community, Inc. , created 2006. 

Quote
Teacher of Traditional Shamanism, Shamanic Counselor, Raised and trained in Traditional Shamanism by my own Shaman Grandmother who immigrated here from Russia in 1908 from a long lineage of Traditional Siberian and Mongolian Shamans.

http://100shamandays.blogspot.com/p/about-shaman-elder-maggie.html (http://100shamandays.blogspot.com/p/about-shaman-elder-maggie.html)

She was born in 1952. Public records in Albion NY 1988 also list her name as Jean M Conley, so Conley might be a birth name.

https://plus.google.com/113902484059121539932/about (https://plus.google.com/113902484059121539932/about)

Quote
If you could ask a Shaman Elder any question, what would you want to know?
Forty-five questions are answered through the words of Shaman Elder Maggie who has practiced for over 50 years her centuries-old family lineage of Traditional Shamanism, trained by her own Shaman Grandmother.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Shaman-Speaks-Shamanism-Spirituality/dp/1615990070 (http://www.amazon.com/The-Shaman-Speaks-Shamanism-Spirituality/dp/1615990070)

Quote
Today there are very few Shamans left in the world. I offer my services as taught to me by my mother and grandmother. I come from a long line of Shamans going back at least to the 1400's in the Balkan region of Europe. We were more commonly referred to as a gypsy clan although the word "gypsy" still carries a negative connotation to this day. My studies continued when I was 17 as I set out into the world to find what-if anything- all the Shamans had in common across the world. I found and studied with many Shamans from Europe to South America to Native American elders and I found that all Shamanic work is basically the same.

http://www.holisticseek.com/sitemap/users/users~449~shaman_elder_alternative_schools_shamanic_medicine_florida.php (http://www.holisticseek.com/sitemap/users/users~449~shaman_elder_alternative_schools_shamanic_medicine_florida.php)

Title: Re: "Gypsy Shaman" Maggie Wahls, Yaqui, Coma
Post by: Epiphany on June 12, 2013, 12:49:41 am
Shaman Elder Maggie Wahls uses magnoliaz101@yahoo.com

Jean Maggie Wahls, mentioned in http://www.offshorealert.com/forums.aspx?g=posts&page=-1&t=38553 (http://www.offshorealert.com/forums.aspx?g=posts&page=-1&t=38553) also used magnoliaz101@yahoo.com

Quote
On August 18, 2000 James Gregory Ziegler (aka) Zig Ziegler and his fifth (5th) wife Jean M. Wahls (aka) Maggie Wahls mentored two (2) individuals named Tessa Howell and Elridge E. "Sekou" Glasford whom began providing international business services that Ziegler turned into his financial business fraud money laundering support conduits operating in Charlestown, Nevis.

So it looks like the possible connection made earlier in this thread might be right.

James Gregory Ziegler being allegedly involved in fraud does look to be an authentic story, don't know if Wahls herself was a victim or an active fraudster also.


Quote
THE DOMINION OF MELCHEZIDEK Ambassador, Gilbert Allen Ziegler (aka) Van Arthur Brink ( founder of the FIRST INTERNATIONAL BANK OF GRENADA LTD. ), had a brother named James Gregory Ziegler (aka) Zig Ziegler who ran the FULL GOSPEL BUSINESS MEN'S FELLOWSHIP INTERNATIONAL ( FGBMFI ) out-of a Chapter in Oregon, USA where he later became president, promoted to field director, and later became national director of the FULL GOSPEL BUSINESS MEN'S FELLOWSHIP INTERNATIONAL ( FGBMFI ) from 1983 - 1995

http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=26075619 (http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=26075619)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_of_Melchizedek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_of_Melchizedek)

Title: Re: "Gypsy Shaman" Maggie Wahls, Yaqui, Coma
Post by: Epiphany on June 12, 2013, 01:43:09 am
Magnoliaz Ltd.
Boynton Beach, Florida
United States
Maggie Jean Wahls

Quote
Maggie stares into the soul to find all kinds of other realities in what seem like ordinary objects without inspection.
http://www.creativeshake.com/profile.html?MyUrl=Magnoliaz (http://www.creativeshake.com/profile.html?MyUrl=Magnoliaz)


Quote
   
Awards
Grenada International Artist of the Year
http://digitalconsciousness.com/artists/MagnoliazWahls/ (http://digitalconsciousness.com/artists/MagnoliazWahls/)

http://www.angelfire.com/empire/freeflight/marketing.html (http://www.angelfire.com/empire/freeflight/marketing.html)
http://magnoliaz.com/ (http://magnoliaz.com/)
http://www.artwanted.com/artist.cfm?ArtID=5155 (http://www.artwanted.com/artist.cfm?ArtID=5155)

Quote
The Morro Bay, California vortex is one of the few still virtually undiscovered vortices in the world today. Visitors are led up the hillside by Maggie Wahls, one of the few energy guides in the area who knows the exact location, seeking to experience vortex energy.
http://www.freewebs.com/healingdirectory/tour.htm (http://www.freewebs.com/healingdirectory/tour.htm)

http://www.angelfire.com/empire/freeflight/ (http://www.angelfire.com/empire/freeflight/)

Quote
Shaman Elder Maggie Jean Wahls, telepathic from birth, has studied Shamanism for 50 years practicing the teachings and traditions of her European heritage. Maggie has studied with Shamans from around the world. Although the teaching of Shamanism has traditionally been reserved for those of direct lineage, today there are fewer and fewer practicing Shamans in the modern world. In an effort to preserve her heritage and keep the powerful healing skills of Shamanism alive, special dispensation has been granted to Shaman Elder Maggie Wahls to help others re-member their own innate Shamanic skills that may have been forgotten. Based in Missouri, Maggie is a Course In Miracles Study Facilitator, Animal Communicator, Reiki Master, and artist.


http://www.selfhealingexpressions.com/faculty.shtml (http://www.selfhealingexpressions.com/faculty.shtml)
Title: Re: "Gypsy Shaman" Maggie Wahls, Yaqui, Coma
Post by: tecpaocelotl on June 12, 2013, 05:19:10 pm
http://www.freewebs.com/healingdirectory/tour.htm (http://www.freewebs.com/healingdirectory/tour.htm)

Interesting webpage. It has tons of people's name when you click on particular states which has people who are into the new age stuff.
Title: Re: "Gypsy Shaman" Maggie Wahls, Yaqui, Coma
Post by: pignut on December 31, 2020, 05:34:20 pm
Quote
Bulgaria was a xtian country by 864 when King Boris I declared christianity the state religion. The Bulgarian realm was founded in 679, and at that time, there was a Thrakian population living in the country which had been Romanized, and this group of the country's population was xtian before 679.




Quote
Essentially the centuries of Turkish rule created large areas of neutrality with pagan beliefs kept intact and not christianised.

Unfortunately, this is pretty far from facts. The Ottoman Empire was a Muslim state, and in accordance with Islam, they tolerated those religions called the 'family of the book' (ahl al-kitab), i.e. Xtian and Jewish denominations. Pagan beliefs were not seen as equal to the book religions, and any pagan areas within the Ottoman Empire would have experienced pressure to convert to Islam. .....
However, the regions had been christianized before the Ottoman conquest, and largely remained xtian under Ottoman rule. The Muslim minority in Bulgaria e.g. was caused by Turkish settlers sent to Bulgaria by the Sublime Porte, but there was also a Muslim minority who lived there before, called the Volga-Bulgarians.

I agree with most of what you are saying, but a few comments: Nominally, yes, the balkans converted to Christianity and Islam. Volga Bulgaria was a distinct state from Danube Bulgaria (roughly what we call Bulgaria today), in southern Russia. It had historic cultural connections to Danube Bulgaria, but these probably declined with the conversion of Volga Bulgaria to Islam and Danube Bulgaria to Christianity. I do not know of any evidence for a significant Volga Bulgar minority in Danube Bulgaria. Many Moslem Bulgarians identify as Pomack, that is Bulgarian Muslim converts rather than Turks, although there is a fair amount of controversy if they are descendants of Turkish immigrants or Bulgarians who converted, and if they converted willingly or by force. IMO a lot of the conversion was voluntary. Converting to the very loose definition of Islam required carried enormous perks, lower taxes, the right to bear arms etc. Converts continued to celebrate Christmas, Easter and St. George's day (often with homemade rakia). Islam meant a change of hat and little else. As far as paganism goes, a huge number of pagan traditions have survived under the cloak of both Orthodox Christianity and Balkan Islam. The Rodope Pomacks I lived among for 2 and a half years didn't celebrate Ramaddan or Eid, their biggest celebration was in November. According to them it was "the birthday of Mohammed's son (pbuh), who was born in this area". Mohammed's (pbuh) sons all died in infancy. None was to the best of my knowledge, born in the Rodope mountains. However, Orpheus, according to legend, was. I saw many other examples of quasi paganism among both Christians and Muslims, for instance in most Islamic societies, a hodja is a schoolmaster. In Bulgaria he is often a wizard with the power to remove curses and tell fortunes over expensive phonelines, often alongside a Mag (witch) in a similar line of work.