Author Topic: Request for Help from Researchers: Camel's Eye Treaty group at Akwesasne  (Read 84271 times)

Offline E.P. Grondine

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Re: Request for Help from Researchers: Camel's Eye Treaty group at Akwesasne
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2009, 07:59:51 pm »
PM me for my guide inside the cult archaeology industry and this may start to make some sense to you. Insanity does have a logic all of its own, and in this case these folks are working within a well developed delusional framework.

The ties to militia groups started when David Hatcher Childress began to distribute Duncan Road's NEXUS magazine. The mailing list catalogue operation now runs:

World Explorer Magazine (David Hatcher Childress), Ancient American (Mays, Frank Joseph Collin), NEXUS magazine (Duncan Roads), Atlantis Rising (Doug Kenyon),  Legendary Times (Georgio, Eric von Daniken's North American rep);

and it is now spreading to cable TV channels.

They share their mailing lists. What they do is exploit people's curiosity (Moma Porcupine, you are right about early trade by boat. Thor Heyedahl's work on it  is covered in my own book "Man and Impact in the Americas"), and then exploit their lack of knowledge and fears and confusion to peddle them other nonsense to earn real money.

Take nonsense from all the books distributed by these people, add together, and voila, another fringe group. Sometimes they become dangerous to others, besides the damage done to themselves. At a minimum they are effective in sharing their ignorance.

If anyone learns where John Moss died, please let me know.




Offline educatedindian

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Re: Request for Help from Researchers: Camel's Eye Treaty group at Akwesasne
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2009, 09:29:03 pm »
This group should be moved to fraud. I believe that the Tecumseh Brown Eagle, "Niiki" AKA Renz are probably all tied to this group.

Overdue to be moved to Frauds, though we still hope for more research done. I'd personally be very surprised if "Niiki" is not involved.

Offline Don Naconna

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Re: Request for Help from Researchers: Camel's Eye Treaty group at Akwesasne
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2009, 04:07:15 pm »
I agree, there is just too much similiarity in the writing etc.This is an example of fraud and impersonation, and "Niiki" appears to very good at both. I also think that "Niiki" is non aboriginal, we have all of these so called support groups here, most are legitimate non aboriginal supporters of aboriginal issues such as land claims and settlements. Some do cross the line, as these people have. After seeing the way Niiki went beserk when Renz's family history was exposed as a lie, I reached the conclusion that Renz and Niiki were both non aboriginal and probably one and the same person. I was unable to find anything on anyone at Tyendinaga named "Niiki". I also think the reason Niiki started the thread on Tecumseh Brown Eagle was that he/she didn't want to see a black fraud move his/her fraud out.
These people are really out of touch with historical reality. I googled the Camels Eye Treaty and its all nonsense.

Offline uktena

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Re: Request for Help from Researchers: Camel's Eye Treaty group at Akwesasne
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2009, 04:51:19 am »
Quote
Quote from: educatedindian on October 17, 2009, 09:19:01 AM
8. "When the Beda [Bedea] Scholars of England rewrote and retranslated the Christian Bible in the 1500’s from the old version of 451 A.D., they purposely omitted one complete book"

The only mentions I could find of Beda scholars come from the CET people. The Bible's been translated a number of times.

At a wild blue-sky guess, could it mean "scholars on the works of the Venerable Bede (Saint Bede, or Beda, 672/673—735)?

I know the quoted assertion's dates don't match, but such an "historical inexactitude" seems par for that course.

I haven't a clue who these Beda or Bedea scholars might have been.  My first thought, too, was something to do with the Venerable Bede, but the dates, as you say, don't match.  There were several English translations made in the 1500s, the first being the one by William Tyndale and the last being the Bishop's Bible, which was followed in 1611 by the King James Version.  In between, there were six or seven other translation, none of which had anything to do with something called Bede or Bedea.  

By the "old version of 451", they must mean the Latin Vulgate, which was actually a tad earlier than that, and in any case, most English Bibles were not translated from it.  The only one that was, the Douay Version (the Roman Catholic Church's answer to the Protestants' work), still had no Bede or Bedea associated with it, that I can find.  

As for the name of the book that was supposedly left out in the 1500s, therefore implying that the "old version of 451" included it, they go on to say:  the name of this book can be found in the new Bible-Numbers 21:14.  That would be "The Book of the Wars of the Lord."    Not only was this book not left out by the English translators, it was never included in any Bible, anywhere, at any time, old or new--for the simple fact that it was lost in ancient times.  There are a number of books mentioned or quoted in the Bible which are otherwise unknown.  The Wikipedia article "Lost Works" lists 28 of them.  The one and only quote we have from The Book of the Wars of the Lord is:  "What he did in the Red sea, and in the brooks of Arnon, and at the stream of the brooks that goeth down to the dwelling of Ar, and lieth upon the border of Moab."  I'm not sure what that has to do with the rest of the paragraph where it's referenced, which appears to deal with court cases, tribal hierarchies, and treaty rights.  That passage of  the Bible is part of a simple historical narrative about how the Israelites camped here, then they moved and camped there, then they moved and camped the other place; and the Biblical author mentions in passing that a certain book recorded this.  I'm not sure what the CET people think they're proving by sticking it in.

I haven't read all the posts on this thread, but the ones from this CET group that I've read so far have that special something to them, a kind of hard-to-read earnestness, kitchen-sink argumentation, and quasi-scholarship that I associate with UFO contactees and proponents of weird science.  It's always been an odd phenomenon to me that normal people of average intelligence and ordinary education always seem to be able to catch bad history, ludicrous arguments, and physical impossibilities if these things are presented as fiction.  Present them as non-fiction (or, better, as TRUE facts that have been covered up and suppressed by this or that group of conspirators who REALLY run things, we present the facts and YOU decide for yourself!), and those same people will fall for it, hook, line, and stinker.  :o

EDIT:  After I posted this, I did some reading about the Venerable Bede, and it seems that, good churchman that he was, he wrote commentaries on some of the books of the Bible.  I only knew him as the guy that wrote the first history of England, which is why I didn't think of this sooner.  Maybe the term "Beda (Bedea) Scholars of England" was their way of saying something like "scholars in the intellectual tradition of Bede".  Possible, but it's a stretch, and nobody else, English or otherwise, uses the term. If anything this kind of obtuse wordplay only makes their argument sound sillier, as if that bit about the missing book is not silly enough already.  ::) 
« Last Edit: October 23, 2009, 05:06:52 am by uktena »

Offline Don Naconna

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Re: Request for Help from Researchers: Camel's Eye Treaty group at Akwesasne
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2009, 01:36:46 pm »
What does the Venerable Bede have to do with North America? These people may be connected with some new age Celtic pagans who believe that Celts discovered the Americas. I wouldn't surprised if our old friend Tecumseh's name come up, he'll probably claim to be a direct descendant of the Venerable Bede!

Offline uktena

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Re: Request for Help from Researchers: Camel's Eye Treaty group at Akwesasne
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2009, 03:31:39 am »
All I know for sure is:

The Ven'rable Bede
forgot half of the Creed,
and almost two-thirds
of the Comfortable Words.

I still haven't gotten around to slogging through the CET's documents as presented here, but maybe they state somewhere in all that mess, that Bede's Ecclesiastical History of the English People contains a mention of the Noah’s Ark Treaty--that one "covers all Anglia, Saxon, Mercia and Northumbrian Groups or The White Tribes of Europe", you know, so I'm sure an educated churchman such as himself would know about it.  Another thing I noticed, is that they throw in that bit about the Beda or Bedea scholars of England excluding a book from the Bible, but don't say if they think that's a good thing or a bad thing.  Actually, they don't do anything with that little factoid other than throw it into a paragraph randomly, as if someone suddenly thought about it while he was writing about something else.  Something like how I myself might, in the middle of a conversation, suddenly say:  "Hey, did you know that the world record for the flight of a chicken is thirteen seconds?"

Offline uktena

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Re: Request for Help from Researchers: Camel's Eye Treaty group at Akwesasne
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2009, 04:21:26 am »
OK, I read through most of it, and it's worse than I thought.  This stuff has the bizarre kind of logic you usually only find among ambulatory schizophrenics.  Thanks to educatedindian for his analysis.  I can help with one point, though:

Quote
Wait, found an explanation for kanabosm. It's marijuana, and there's pages of descriptions as to why it's sacred and "majik". Suddenly I see what inspired her...

That strange word is usually spelled "kaneh bosem", and is the Hebrew term for one of the plants used in the holy annointing oil of the ancient Israelites.  It is usually identified with the calamus, or sweet flag.  Like many plants in the Old Testament, the exact species intended is unknown.  "Kaneh bosem"  means something like "fragrant reed", and was translated in the Septuagint as "kalamos".  That word in turn means any sort of reed-like plant, and more generally, any plant that is neither a tree nor a bush.  Somewhere along the line, "kalamos" was identified with the sweet flag plant, and that's where it stood for hundreds of years.  But this is where things start to get interesting.

Recently some scholars have insisted that "kaneh bosem" is really cannabis, apparently by way of the Aramaic word for hemp, "kannabos", and that it's really cannabis that was used to make the annointing oil.  Fringe religious groups who consider smoking cannabis part of their spirituality have jumped all over this one, with the familiar argument that if God told the Israelites to do it, then he's as much as telling them to go and do thou likewise. By the way, God also told the Israelites not to wear clothes made from mixed fibers, but they don't seem to pay any attention to that one.  :D

Making arguments from word similarities is tricky business at best, and from my limited experiences with cannabis, it's hardly reed-like, nor can it be remotely described as "fragrant"  :o  As for the word similiarity, you might just as well  say that "kaneh boshem/kalamos" really means squid ink, because it sounds like "calamari".  ;D 

And another thing:  nowhere did the Lord command the Israelites to smoke "kaneh bosem".  It was part of the formula for the annointing oil, not for the temple incense.  If the CET and its associates really do consider cannabis a sacred plant, well, the Bible only says to make an oil from it and rub it on your head.  I'm pretty sure that's NOT what they're doing with it!  ::)  Still that would explain a lot about the style of their writing, you just wonder how many bags of Cheetos they went through while producing 56 pages of that stuff.  ;D

Offline Sizzle Flambé

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Re: Request for Help from Researchers: Camel's Eye Treaty group at Akwesasne
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2009, 06:17:09 pm »
Ah yes, anoint yourself with fragrant hemp oil, and see how the drug-sniffing police dogs respond to ''that''.

Offline Don Naconna

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Re: Request for Help from Researchers: Camel's Eye Treaty group at Akwesasne
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2009, 08:51:03 pm »
This is from MNN about these people...

http://ninacolt.gnn.tv/blogs/32966/Random_Ramblings_of_Rascal_Guru_Lester_the_Molester_of_Lost_Minds

I believe that these people are all connected to Niiki/Renz and Tecumseh Brown Eagle

Offline Don Naconna

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Re: Request for Help from Researchers: Camel's Eye Treaty group at Akwesasne
« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2009, 03:58:11 pm »
Basically this sovran group hopes to become an offshore banking site. Someone cynical might say they hope to attract money laundering operations. Certainly there's the danger it could be used as such. I'm not at all sure about the legality of such an effort. Since they are not really recognized as SOVEREIGN (heck, most Six Nations people probably don't even know they exist, and we can't even find out easily who they are), this strikes me as some kind of militia moneymaking scheme.

More mangled and ignorant claims about history that you found.

"Aldelgo" doesn't mean anything in Spanish. In fact the only thing I could find online were numerous sites in Japanese I couldn't read. So it's just your typical Nuage misspelling designed to make something morer authentic to the gullible and weed out those who know the real history.

The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo doesn't have a thing to do with any "Americus Empire." Very little of it even mentions NDNs, and in the clauses that did, the promises certainly weren't kept. The treaty's name couldn't be a misspelling of an Indian word either. It's a Catholic pilgrimage site in Mexico.

There is a Black River Reservation, but it's a state park in Ohio. The only Black River ON a reservation is in the Apache rez at San Carlos, in Arizona. There is a Six Nations offshoot in Wisconsin, but they're Oneida. And the Tuscarora weren't of the original Iroquois League. They joined in the 1700s, over half a millenia after the Haudenosaunee are founded. There are Tuscarora communities away from their rez in NY, but they're mostly back in the Carolinas, their original homeland.

At contactprivacy.com there is this message:

"Use this site to contact the owner of a domain name protected by the WHOIS Privacy Service. This service protects the privacy of domain name holders in the WHOIS system."


The fact is that none of this makes any sense. Its like some 5th grader doing world history homework and getting it all wrong! I thought I had seen some nonsense, but these people are incredible. I would like to see how our resident crazy "Niiki" et al are involved with these nutbars

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Request for Help from Researchers: Camel's Eye Treaty group at Akwesasne
« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2009, 02:24:52 am »
Here's an article I wrote for the Native Unity site which I'm hoping will get reposted widely. Already I've posted it to Indybay. Obviously I encourage everyone to post it anywhere they can. The idea is to spread the word far and wide so it will make it harder for these militias to operate their scams.

--------------------------
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/11/01/18627485.php
Militia Movement Infiltrates Six Nations
By Al Carroll
  
Militia and “sovereign citizen” movement are making inroads within Six Nations communities, and possibly Anishnaabe and other Indian tribes as well. These groups spread bizarre New Age ideas from Afrocentrics, Black supremacist ideologies, Moorish Science, and other fake-Egyptian cults that undermine Native sovereignty, promoting distrust in actual American Indian legal claims, Native oral history traditions, and Six Nations elders.
  
These ideas pose a threat to the unity of the Six Nations. Native artists such as David Fadden/Kanietakeron, musician Billy Green, and rapper B-Chilla have all publicly stated their belief in the so-called Camel’s Eye Treaty, a conspiracy theory that claims all international law is bound by a treaty written 1600 years ago. In falling for such obviously fake history, some activists such as Monica Peters of Akwesasne Women’s Fire risk harming Six Nations’ causes by seeking to base them on fraudulent documents and misunderstanding of the law. They also associate with a variety of fringe characters harmful to Native peoples.
  
The “Sovran” Movement
  
The proponents of the “Sovran” movement include members of dangerous militias (one of whom worked to overthrow a government), alternative medicine, New Agers, and Quebec separatists. The central idea running through this movement is that a person can supposedly legally declare themselves sovereign, or in the movement’s bizarre misspelling, “Sovran,” and thus be beyond all laws. Sorry, but the real world does not work that way, and the only likely result is that you will go to jail. Judges and prosecutors will just be amused at how little you understand both the law and the real world.
  
The “Sovran” movement is centered on a “clan” with an extremely long title, the Divine Creator Ordained Sovran Signatory Clan-Mothers Daughter Of The Great Spirit Of The Divine Supreme In Law Tacit Court For The Sovran Unity Nations Embassy. The address of this "embassy" is an office in Lakeside, California, northwest of Sacramento. One of the names on the site is Ernestine Trudeau, who claims to be an Anishnaabe elder, though no reservation or reserve of hers is mentioned.

While the “Sovran Clan” poses as Native, most other leaders at the “embassy” are non-Native. The president is Brian Sawer-Foner, a graduate student and Green Party candidate in McGill, Canada.  Their "chief justice" is another non-Native, Mario Antonacci, an entertainer who actually bills himself as the "World's Craziest Man." On the Sovran site he gives legal advice straight from the sovereign citizen movement on how to make yourself autonomous as a "steward" of theirs.

The Sovran group has “Departments of Technology” and sells “Quantum Healing,” “Orgonite Pendants,” “Healing Machines to cure cancer,” and an “Energy Auto Charging Device to restructure the molecules of the OGM Foods.” For various fees from fifty to 300 dollars, plus annual fees of twelve more dollars, you can get different IDs and license plates. Their store is largely altmedicine, including pyramids and "implant killers." Someone needs to tell them The Matrix was just a movie.
  
The Sovran group will also give you advice on the IRS, have a Security Department and another called, “Formation and Guiding Department for all new Ambassadors.” There is also a department called Hemp Industry, and another called Earth Healing.

The Sovran group uses false versions of Native prophecies from a virtual Who's Who of New Age frauds, including:
Adam DeArmon AKA "Adam Yellowbird of Sedona," a white New Age healer.  
Roy Steevensz AKA “Roy Littlesun,” a Dutch-Indonesian man claiming to be a Hopi elder who is barred from the Hopi Nations for disrupting their ceremonies
Aurelio Diaz AKA Tekpankalli, who claims to be Purapecha, but has an Aztec name.

The Sovran group claims to have “embassies” all over the US and Canada, and seeks to establish more in Europe and Latin America. Often they have “embassies” for a state, province, or even a small town. In Six Nations Mohawk Territory, the “Ambassador” is Bill Squire. The “Ambassador” for Oka is Patricia Delisle. Their “Ambassador” for Montreal is also their “chief justice” Mario Antonacci. Most bizarre of all is their “Ambassador” for the Lakota Nation, Lyle Christensen, is based in Garland, Texas.

Groups that Sovran works with include secessionists like the Quebec Patriotic Militia, who in their words, “offer a force of structured intervention that will protect against an…invader that would want to assimilate the people,” and tax resisters on the far right like the De Tax Canada Forum. This Sovran group also hopes to become an offshore banking site. Someone cynical might say they hope to attract money laundering operations. The legality of this venture is dubious at best.

An associated Sovran group is Freedom Files. The group is led by “Mary Ann Blackshear -Monarch Matriarch, Most High Maiden Holding the Court of Life, Clerk, Executive Ambassador, Postmaster, Notary.” Harriet Blackshear is the "Mother of the Most High Maiden" etc, etc, while Deana Marie Armstrong Blackshear is the “Sister of the Most High Maiden” etc etc. Marie Ernestine Trudeau is their “Flowing River Ambassador” while Marie Bouche is their “Sunflower Ambassador.” Karen Anne McDonald is their plain old “Ambassador.” (What happened, Karen?) Jessie Walker Tidwell Blackshear is their, “Annointed Ones Spirit Walking Upon the Earth Diplomatic Minister.” Seriously!

Do the Sovran groups really expect anyone to take their pretensions seriously? Their titles only seem to show they play Dungeons and Dragons too much, or that they can’t tell a Renaissance Fair from real life. Meanwhile their dubious cures virtually guarantee the ill health of their victims and the legal intervention of health authorities.

Even more outright dangerous is the involvement of a member one of the worst militia groups in North America. Navin Naidu AKA “Chief Judge Silver Eagle” was the “tribal judge” and economic advisor for the Little Shell Pembinas, a militia posing as an American Indian tribe. The Pembinas are described by the Anti Defamation League and the Southern Poverty Law Center as a hate group filled with anti government extremists. Naidu was once the lawyer for George Speight, who led an unsuccessful coup in Fiji and was charged with treason. Naidu was deported from Fiji for falsely claiming a certificate to practice law.

Now Navin Naidu calls himself Aidun N.C. Naidu and is the “tribal judge” for a group calling itself the Tuscarora Signatory Indian Tribe. Naidu also calls himself “Presiding Elder” for Word in Action Ministry, another group listed as affiliated with militias by the Anti Defamation League.

The real Tuscarora tribe is based in upstate New York. Tuscaroras also live in the traditional homeland of North Carolina. But this “signatory tribe” gives a mailing address in
Onaway, Michigan. The phone number for the “tribe” is an unpublished landline based in Grayling, Michigan. Why would a supposed tribe use someone's phone in another city, and keep the name hidden? Grayling is not that close to Onaway, it's two counties over. Another number for the “tribe” is another unpublished number that is actually a cell phone based all the way down in Lumberton, North Carolina.

Taken together, these “Sovran” groups undermine sovereignty for actual Indian tribal nations, spreading confusion with their fantasy role playing, moneymaking schemes of doubtful legality, and attempts to usurp the place of rightful tribes.
  
The Camel’s Eye Treaty Hoax
  
The Camel’s Eye Treaty has become the guiding document for Sovran groups. Monica Peters of the Akwesasne Women’s Fire is perhaps it strongest advocate. Supposedly the alleged document is based on writings by the late Meredith Quinn, who at one time called herself the legal advisor for the "Dakota Empire." Yet believers in this alleged treaty have provided no evidence it ever even existed.
The contents of this document are filled with many obvious falsehoods and a great deal of, to put it kindly, incredible weirdness. These writings attributed to Quinn include many references to DNA and mitochondria, terms pulled out of thin air that are meaningless such as "self proclaiming dragon chiefs" and "divine life force delta 9 frequency." I also don't think I have ever seen divine angels of light and Interpol discussed in the same document before. It would be an unintentionally funny joke, except that believers in the document are causing quite a bit of problems in the Six Nations and elsewhere.

Believers in the treaty also write at length about “kanabosm.” This is their term for marijuana, and they provide pages of descriptions as to why it's sacred and "majik." Side by side with treaty discussions they also write dozens of pages on the witch hunts in Europe, the Virgin Mary, and the Essenes, a Jewish cult in ancient times.

The falsehoods from the alleged Camel’s Eye Treaty itself are numerous and obvious. Below are the most obvious:

1. "This treaty is known as the Treaty of the Camels Eye, The Eye of Isis and The Eagle Bowl Treaty, and it was signed July 2nd 408 A.D. upon the surrender of the Roman Empire."

Why would a treaty supposedly written a thousand years before Columbus affect Natives? Why would it be named after camels or Isis? Rome fell in 476, not 408.

2. "Peace Pipe Treaties [These treaties cover all Indian Tribes of North and South America]
The Seal of Solomon Treaty [Covers all Blacks, Arabs and Israelites]
The Paladium of Troy Treaty [Covers Asia and Minor Asia]
Noah’s Ark Treaty [Covers all Anglia, Saxon, Mercia and Northumbrian Groups or The White Tribes of Europe]"

Where to begin? Peace pipes aren't used by many tribes, and many tribes never signed any treaties at all. The Seal of Solomon referred to Solomon’s ring used to signify his authority, not any treaty. The Palladium (with two ls) was in Athens, not Troy. There is no such place as Minor Asia. There is only Asia Minor. Why would a treaty for England be named after Noah's Ark? And why are only the ancient peoples of England mentioned as "white tribes of Europe"? Where are the Germans, French, etc?
3. "...Remember at the time Rome surrendered it’s power in 408 AD, England was given the responsibility of fulfilling the articles of the Camel’s Eye Treaty, because England was the second Rome."

England was a minor province of the Roman Empire. Most of it was never even conquered by the Romans. England certainly never took over the former territory of the Roman Empire. In 408 AD, England was divided under many rulers and would not be united for many centuries.

4. "The ROMAN EMPIRE included the Crown of England, France and Spain. To this day, should you follow the bloodlines of the ROYAL FAMILIES, you will find them to be the descendants of the OLD ROMAN EMPIRE or the ROMAKOS who are the descendants of GREEK ROYALTY."
The Roman Empire did not include the crowns of those three nations. The British and Greek dynasties are actually both German in origin.
 
5. "...And the name of this book can be found in the new Bible-Numbers 21:14. The Monarchy of any Tribal Government are called: Angels; Daughters of the Great Spirit or Pure Light."

What a conspiracy theory about the Bible has to do with Indians is anyone's guess.

6. "To be a member of a Signatory Tribe, you must belong to a clan that is ruled by a Clanmother who appoints Chiefs to speak on behalf of her clan. The entire Tribe ruled by Clanmothers, Angels, Pure Light, or Daughters of the Great Spirit, become the Title Owners of the Sovereign Territories."

Do they seriously believe that the US or Canadian governments required Native women to be recognized as angels of light before they could sign treaties? Actually, these governments preferred (or more often, insisted) Native treaty signers to be male.

7. "The exception to this are the 5,6, and 7 Nations that were Indian Tribes created by George Washington"

They seriously believe that George Washington somehow created tribes?

8. "The original Iroquois Confederacy was 52 Nations."

By such a bizarre claim they just called every keeper of Haudenosaunee tradition a liar.
 
Monica Peters of Akwesasne Women’s Fire described on their website how she came to believe in the Camel’s Eye Treaty:

“I remember when I first heard of the Camel Eye Treaty, back in June 2009. I was involved in a late night discussion with a new group of people that I did not know very well yet. We were talking about personal experiences, world events, dream symbolism, and astrology.

When I first heard about the Camel Eye Treaty, I was very tired and confused. My brain could not even process the information and how it pertained to my life today. I am very curious to learn every day, so I decided to start researching the topic.

The Orion Prophecy
Hieroglyphs
Astrology as it pertains the location of Pyramids ** See the orion prophecy
Egyptology
Eye of Isis
Obelisk in New York City, behind the Metropolitan Museum
Symbology
The Berbers….
It also makes sense to me that our ancestors have frequently changed their ‘names’ over the years as a survival tactic.

I believe it is also worth our time to discover the commonalities with our Creation stories and compare those to Egyptology topics that are not government controlled knowledge.”

In other words, Peters believes that Six Nations oral tradition is false and her elders are liars.

Instead she chose to believe pseudo-science and fraudulent history that came from Black supremacists or so-called Moorish Science, and not even the profession of Egyptology as she thinks. Peters abandoned the Six Nations traditions that have been a source of strength for her people for centuries for, in her words: astrology, Egyptology, symbology, Orion prophecy, and conspiracy theories about obelisks and the government.

Not even The De Vinci Code is that unbelievable. Peters firmly denies being a cult member, but certainly she has fallen for ideas that are cult like and ridiculous, with no basis in fact and contrary to every Native oral tradition known.

For Ernestine Trudeau, she has chosen to ally herself with the militia and sovereign citizen movements that are filled with Quebec separatists, New Agers, and altmedicine quacks. Whether Peters or Trudeau realize it or not, the militia and sovereign citizen movement are a bizarre union of both Black and white supremacists. It is truly a shame that Natives who no longer believe in their people’s traditions get added to that strange alliance.

So-called Sovran groups are not tribes, nor clans, nor nations. Most importantly, they are not sovereign, never were, and never will be. “Ambassadors” of these groups are almost as delusional as their leaders. These so-called Sovran groups have no hope of succeeding in getting their dubious legal claims recognized. Deep down, I suspect the leaders of these groups realize that, even if the low level members don’t, just yet.

What these groups offer, as most conspiracy theories and pseudo-history offer, is a false feeling of being special, a naïve notion that its believers hold a secret others don’t know, and a simplistic way of seeing the world that comforts them temporarily. But only temporarily, because the law has a way of catching up with the fast buck con artists that the leaders tend to be. Its followers will likely go their own way, wiser but sadder, and perhaps poorer for any money they threw away.

The real losers, of course, will be genuine American Indian tribal nations, the actual Six Nations. Because their genuine claims, with historical and legal backing, will be much harder for the US and Canadian authorities to take seriously every time these pretenders claim to speak for Indians.

Dr. Al Carroll is a historian, Fulbright Scholar, and activist, helping found the hatewatch group New Age Frauds Plastic Shamans (NAFPS) at www.newagefraud.org. He is the author of Medicine Bags and Dog Tags: American Indian Veterans from Colonial Times to the Second Iraq War from University of Nebraska Press.

Offline Don Naconna

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Re: Request for Help from Researchers: Camel's Eye Treaty group at Akwesasne
« Reply #41 on: November 03, 2009, 08:46:51 pm »
I came across this reference to the Camel Eye Treaty in the Mohawk News, does anyone know about "Natasha"

"Another group trying to sabotage the Kaianereh’ko:wa [Great Law] are the Camel Toe Treaty people.  Ahab the Arab [the sheik of the burning sand], his partner Fatima of the 7 Veils [without the rings on her fingers or bells on her toes] and some of their followers recently did something interesting.  They apparently loaded the cement border marker on St. Regis Road and took it somewhere.   Their emotionally charged internet guru and handler, Natasha, must have gushed.     

Those turning their backs on the Kaianereh’ko:wa are committing treason [Wampum 58].  They are supposed to be banished from Onowaregeh [Great Turtle Island].  They’re also violating the Two Row Wampum by accepting another law, leaving the canoe and boarding the colonial ship. When will they get on their camels and leave?"       

The Mohawk don't seem to be very happy with this group...

Offline Smart Mule

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Re: Request for Help from Researchers: Camel's Eye Treaty group at Akwesasne
« Reply #42 on: November 03, 2009, 09:31:20 pm »
Talked to my friend Marcus who talked to David Fadden.  Supposedly they got a lot of their info from the Philosophical Research Society www.prs.com.  I picked up a book from the library by the founder, Manly P. Hall and I would have to agree.  The book is The Secret Destiny of America and it's pretty out there.

Offline bobbieo

  • Posts: 2
Re: Request for Help from Researchers: Camel's Eye Treaty group at Akwesasne
« Reply #43 on: November 04, 2009, 03:32:05 am »
This is bobbieo - who originally requested help from Researchers on the Camel's Eye Treaty group at Akwesasne. I'm also the editor of the Native Unity Digest blog  -http://nativeunity.blogspot.com -

All I can say is "WOW"at the response from this group. I think a very nasty can of wormds has been opened. Thanks everyone who participated - B

Offline uktena

  • Posts: 37
Re: Request for Help from Researchers: Camel's Eye Treaty group at Akwesasne
« Reply #44 on: November 04, 2009, 06:30:19 pm »
Quote
Talked to my friend Marcus who talked to David Fadden.  Supposedly they got a lot of their info from the Philosophical Research Society www.prs.com.  I picked up a book from the library by the founder, Manly P. Hall and I would have to agree.  The book is The Secret Destiny of America and it's pretty out there.

Thanks for the info.  As E. P. Grondine has pointed out before, I'm too inclined to blame Theosophy for all the strange ideas floating around these days, and tend to ignore the equally important Rosicrucian and Masonic streams.  The mention of Manly P. Hall did ring a bell to me; I'm not that familiar with his work, but he wrote a very influential book when he was 27 years old, called  The Secret Teachings of All Ages, which I've thumbed through from time to time, but never felt like taking the time--a lot of time--to actually study.  I had never heard of The Secret Destiny of America but it sounds like a Manly P. Hall title, all right.

I found this book online and scanned through it; it seems typical "wisdom of the Mystic Masters"  pseudo-history, nothing here suprising other than that he insists that the Christopher Columbus who "discovered" America (actually known and explored previously by the ancient Greeks  :o), was not the same person as the one born in Genoa, and was in fact a Greek prince.  :o

Just what I gather from a quick perusal, his argument seems to be this:  The United States of America is the final flowering of the ideals of democracy and enlightened rationalism that began in Ancient Egypt with Akenaton's rejection of the old polytheistic system; continued through the Greek philosophers (with a side trip to Atlantis, which to him was merely a symbol of of the Afro-Eurasian supercontinent, united in ancient times by a league of ten benevolent kings ???); was driven underground by the rise of the Christian Church and preserved intact by a series of secret societies until modern times (entirely glossing over the historical fact that a considerable number of the ancient documents we have today, we have only because they were preserved in the libraries of the monasteries of those Bad Old Christians ;D). Then these ideas were manifested by the Founding Fathers, who incorporated Masonic ideals and symbols into the very foundations of this nation, thus establishing the United States as the Utopia of Enlightenment and democratic ideals for the rest of the world.  I can't paraphrase this and do justice to the naivite of the original, so here's a small quote:

In America shall be erected a shrine to Universal Truth, as here arises the global democratic Commonwealth--the true wealth of all mankind, which is designed in the foundation that men shall abide together in peace and shall devote their energies to the common cause of discovery. ... The power of man lies in his dreams,his visions, and his ideals.  This has been the common vision of man's necessity in the secret empire of the Brotherhood of the Quest, consecrated to fulfilling the destiny for which we in America were brought into being.

So far, I haven't seen anything about the Camel's Eye Treaty, or any of the rest of the treaties which supposedly bind people all over the world, and this book is about as far from "sovran individuality" as it gets.  Enlightenment philosophers encouraged individual liberty along with social responsibility, and I don't believe they ever talked about "sovereignity" except with respect to nation-states. Those ideas must have come from elsewhere, possibly from other M.P. Hall books, or others in this genre of mystical pseudo-history.  There are also a whole herd of minor writers who almost nobody ever heard of, whose wakko ideas still have their influence on modern fringe groups.

He does seem to give some credit to the American Indian tribes for establishing and maintaning a democratic system, though he seems to think they got it from the ancient Greek trans-Atlantic explorers. Those explorers also seem to have given the Mayans all their worthwhile ideals (you know how those dumb natives can never come up with the idea of a pyramid or a calendar without outside help  :D).  His thoughts about the Mayans in particular are naive in the extreme.  To hear him tell it, they were a peaceful democracy with elected leaders who didn't engage in warfare, and only sacrificed fruits and flowers on their altars. :o   This changed somewhat in their later days, but only because of the heinous influence of outside tribes.  Oh, and we know they didn't have any crime, because there are no prisons among the Mayan ruins.  :D

This book was written in 1944, and represents a well-known (and well-worn) argument for American Exceptionism, which seems almost laughable these days---today, the people who buy this idea of a string of secret societies maintaining unpopular ideas down through the ages, and influencing the founding and running of modern nation-states, are the tinfoil-hat conspiracy types, who consider this to be a Very Bad Thing.