Birdwoman began her spiritual path in 1969 after reading Don Juan, A Yaqui Way of Knowledge. She followed her spiritual path through nature based Native American studies, until in 1986, when she met Amylee, of Tippecanoe, Ohio, last granddaughter in a lineage of Iroquois Medicine Women. Birdwoman is an original Shield Sister, a rainbow coalition of women from around the world, who ceremony around the moon cycles and come together roughly once a year in Ceremony under Amylee’s teachings. Birdwoman is also a member of the Council of Shield Sisters.
They do mention studying with North American Pa'Ris'Ha, a Cherokee Elder.; Eagle Man, Oglala Sioux Elder; and Amylee, a Medicine Woman of the Oglala Sioux.
Is it ever possibe to notify Quack Watch concerning these people?
What High school did you go to? Maybe you can sue.
Imagine if in your life someone began to attack you and it affected your livelyhood,your family, your life?
I think truth is very impotant
that standard has to be the same for ourselves,
I have read thru all of these comments and what people are presenting.The only thing that I continue to see is that thier is alot of speculation about alot of different things.I have to say as a women that works very hard to establish myself in life and dream,dreams that it is very scarey that you can just attack and defame someone's character.Yet it appears noone has experienced any of the things that you are attacking are we not people with minds and the abillity to make decision do we not have freedom of choice? Freedom to succeed and yes, even sometimes to fail (that we do not always get freedom in).I try to walk my life out,treating other's as I would want to be treated. Imagine if in your life someone began to attack you and it affected your livelyhood,your family, your life? I think truth is very impotant But, grace is also as imporatnt and we have a responsibility to tell the truth and hold one another to a higher standard, that standard has to be the same for ourselves, it also is not to be done out of anger or vengence,They say vengence is a lazy mans grief.So the thing that I hope is that we could get researched truth and facts w/out defaming a whole person and there life just to make ourselves feel a little better you know what they say if you have to step on someone to feel big it usually makes you small.
Superdog,
Thank you, for the respect and understanding of what I was saying and asking,Instaed of attacking me.
1st off no I am not Amylee,I am a self employed women who believes very much in encouraging and uplifting women to be the best that they can be,I truly understand what is being sought after here is to present truth.I just believe that truth can be ministered to a person in love and grace and if someone is wrong you help them to see and show them why, not tear them down.So ,this is hard for me to understand because all I have really read is hear say and what little pieces people have found.to encourage attcking someone's funding because you believe something is happening doesn't seem fair I know I would not want that done to me.I did not see where anyone had experienced or seen first hand what was going on it is all speculation.If I missing something please let me know.Yes,I do know Amylee Thanks,Kathy
I am a self employed women who believes very much in encouraging and uplifting women to be the best that they can be,
This is not a ‘diatribe’.
I know a lynching when I see one.
I am the Independent Indian Media Booking Agent who arranged for AmyLee to be interviewed on First Voices Indigenous Radio, April 3, 2008. During the months of this year’s Longest Walk 2, I thought her discussion about that first Longest Walk in 1978 would be appreciated by various media venues. I knew that AmyLee had been a regional organizer who worked closely with Vernon Bellecourt in 1978. Afterwards and upon learning there was one email challenging her First Voices appearance, she graciously offered her government issued documentation, including arranging for such to be sent directly from their official source.
Ms. Rose Garcia (Southwest Skeptic) posted deceptively worded misrepresentation of AmyLee’s interview. It follows and precedes a lengthy list of other falsified posts about her. There are over 52 false and misleading statements on page one of this thread mostly sired by the 100% fictitious Red Road Collective site first posted more than 15 years ago!
(It appears nearly every lie about AmyLee can be traced back to the RRC.) That number of errors triples on page two, where Ms. Garcia makes numerous outrageous claims which smack of cyber-stalking. The veracity of Ms. Garcia is the real question. I should add here that I have known AmyLee for 20 years, the same approximate age of Ms. Garcia, whose only information about AmyLee appears to come from the internet and possibly an RRC supporter who may or may not have met AmyLee over 15 years ago.
About AmyLee:
To my extensive knowledge, she has never claimed to be a member of the Wolf Clan. She has never sold ‘Wolf Clan Memberships.’ She has never claimed to be a ‘spiritual leader.’ She has never claimed to be the ‘traditional medicine woman’ to or for any group of people. She has never claimed to be a ‘life coach.’ She has never claimed to have a ‘cure’ for anything. She has never claimed to be a ‘shaman.’ The product list for Her Native Roots never featured any items called ‘American Indian Colon Cleanse’ nor ‘Iroquois Bird Flu Remedy.’ These are facts. And the list goes on and on.
Just as irresponsible as those who defame her here are those who over-spoke her merits on their own sites, including those links which prematurely dubbed AmyLee a ‘Medicine Woman,’ or claimed her as their Teacher (often after one 50 minute public lecture) or called her an ‘Elder’ years before AmyLee will ever agree to wear the honor. AmyLee is not accountable for what other people say about her – good or bad. The burden of proof is not on AmyLee.
I could continue a check list - refuting each and every point noted by Ms. Garcia who undoubtedly believes her own skewed perceptions. However, if history repeats itself here, I would only be ridiculed on this site as a troll, shill, or presumed to be AmyLee herself or someone you dismiss as having been fooled by her. Instead, I offer a novel solution or at least a refreshing perspective. The list of libel and character defamation against AmyLee is growing to the point of endangering the actual good work this forum does. I have forwarded this thread to Domingo Rivera, cyber defamation attorney. Relax - not to sue anybody – but to review, then offer his professional opinion about its content and conduct and to offer a reasonable resolution if he sees one. I shall also forward him the “evidence??? I have, and inform TALON Inc which owns Her Native Roots Herbals, and snail-mail AmyLee too so that they know what’s going on and have the opportunity to supply documents or responses. You are also free to do the same. While this looks like mediation it is not – no one is bound to anything. No “outcome??? is even being suggested. This is just an option I am in a position to offer in the name of facts, truth and justice – which is what we all say we want. Take it or leave it.
You might be well advised to learn what you can about the new cyber-defamation laws.
His website is: http://www.cyberinternetlawyer.com/Online_Defamation.html
My email address is: IndiMedia@live.com Subject line: AmyLee. Please forward all information to me and I will take responsibility for seeing he receives it.
I suspect it will take him awhile to report back to this site with his findings and assessment. If you are going to send me anything to forward to him, please do so in the next two weeks.
Until then, tempted posters may wish to think twice, just in case this does grow into something with legal implications. Further libel could endanger this site, its hosts and the posters. Corporations do not take kindly to having their family members – be it their products or their volunteers, senselessly slandered and threatened.
I know just enough about the law to know when I need to call an expert. Race is a core issue in this thread. The legal definition of ‘lynching’ also includes extrajudical punishment meted out by a mob with a 'mob' being defined as "two or more persons, without color or authority of law, coming together for the purpose (predetermined at the onset or not) of harming another and from which death does not result." You clearly want to harm her – her reputation, community standing, and any products with which she is connected. I don’t think anyone here really wants mob rule. A time out, a voice of unbiased reason from a cyber-attorney, seems prudent at this point – for all concerned.
While I have been open with you that I have knowledgeable reason to believe AmyLee is innocent of all allegations here, I am also open to being proven wrong. If there is enough substantial information forwarded to me it might also make a good story for First Voices Radio or another media venue I might arrange. JB
...Ms. Rose Garcia (Southwest Skeptic) posted deceptively worded misrepresentation...a lengthy list of other falsified posts...over 52 false and misleading statements...Ms. Garcia makes numerous outrageous claims which smack of cyber-stalking...The veracity of Ms. Garcia is the real question...
A percentage from each sale benefits both Native and Nature Projects.
We guarantee your Bliss! Settle for nothing less!
The Inventor is Native American Indian. SongPods are not presented as an 'American Indian Made Craft' nor 'traditional Indian Art form.'
Metallurgy Apprentices from diverse cultural paths converge at her forest studio to learn their welded mysteries.
You state that Amylee is “hurting Native American women.??? Amylee IS a Native American woman! YOU are hurting her! That you attempt to deny her her birthright, based on hearsay, heresy, her-say makes you the racist.
You wrongly declare Amylee only taught “white women???
– solely based on who was in attendance where you or your white informants were!
there was never any “charge for ceremony??? (“obscene??? in Amylee’s eyes) and never any “local groups??? you mention, and so there were never any “white men??? to be “left in charge??? of those nonexistent “groups!???
for teaching respect for the environment, and for others and for oneself, and to teach it for free?
Amylee IS a Native American woman!
So where on this site is the official mandate issued by any tribe, Native community, traditional government asking you to take it upon yourself, to go after someone, on their tribal behalf...
SuperDog – you may be this site’s sole redeeming voice of reason. About the disappearing “digital footprint??? – the internet does change – by the nano-second. But, I’m also betting some people who misrepresented Amylee simply “corrected their errors??? though I don’t know who brought those errors to their attention.
Barnaby – If you ever go to Tehanetorens’ (Ray Fadden’s) Museum in Onchiota, you will see a photo of Ray sitting next to his longtime good friend and MUTUAL supporter, Amylee, with a hawk standing on a stump between them.
Amylee directed the surgical team which removed and replaced the injured hawk’s cornea...
Steven McFadden’s interview of AmyLee, like all interviews, never contains poor edits or errors, and interviewees always know who else is going to make the final cut and appear in the author’s book – right? Wrong.
She also fails to note that Amylee seemed embarrassed and apologetic to be in a book about “Native Elders??? when she herself said in the book’s interview, that she was clearly not one.
And adding her own false editorials as though they were in the book: “Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve (A non-profit 501 c 3 ) her medicine place…??? (McFadden, p. 181) The actual TEXT does NOT say ANYWHERE that the former Nature Preserve was “(A non-profit 501 c 3)??? – that is entirely Rose’s inserted fabrication, fraudulently passed off as someone else’s words – complete with deceptive legal implications - anyone else seeing a disturbing trend here?
Pssst! Those of you watching this farce from home, care to venture a guess which of our two anti-heroes will be the first to discover one of their legally loaded and substantial errors, captured in their own supplied links?
(What are good Administrators for!)
There has been Alerts on the Internet since the mid-90's concerning Amylee.
Mostly, what I see is you are just trying to hijack several threads. This should be the end of it.
...she was just interviewed WBAI radio on the program First Voices Indigenous Radio (www.FirstVoicesIndigenousRadio.org ). The show is hosted by Tiokasin Ghosthorse (Lakota) who appears to be clueless about her., The show aired on April 3, 2008 show. You can listen to it in the archives at: http://archive.wbai.org.
Click on see all shows and scroll down to April 3rd
Or just go here: http://archive.wbai.org/allshows.php Then go down to First Voices Indigenous Radio and click on play on the right side to hear it.
For those of you who don’t have real player, here’s a synopsis of the outlandish claims Swartz made.
She claims to have sponsored the first longest walk which pushed the bill through for religious freedom for Native pp in the US.
She claims Iroquois people passed on wisdom to her to use herbs.
Later on in the interview was lots of Newagey nonsensical talk .. All directions converge within your own drum your own beating heart…
lots of talk about sacred mother earth and father sky
she says a lot of stuff like the whole parade of your ancestors converges inside your own beating heart and all the future dwells there too. Lots of trite phrases but nothing of substance
She claims she was guided by many native teachers who took her out to the woods where she earned about herbs from (?) Peterson – a Haudenausaunee medicine woman. She says that the “The plants responded, they absolutely vibrated when she would take a walk to sing to them???.
She claims that her great great grandmother had 3 medicine bundles that she kept at her door and that she was a midwife.
She claims that the term Medicine Woman is an inherited right and she has earned the right to be called that.
She says her grandmothers fortold that she would be an herbalist
She even has the nerve to talk about all those other hucksters who are doing medicine shows for money.
She also claimed to be fluent in the Iroquois language, but she couldn’t translate her Indian name “She who catches rainbows??? because every word is a sentence and it would be quite a long run on sentence to combine.
Claims she co-founded the Ohio branch of the Native American Rights Association at Kent State University. I can’t find any mention of this organization anywhere.
She never introduced herself properly in her native language or stated exactly who her people are or what rez she grew up on. We have a radio show here on Sundays and every guest always introduces himself in the language.
She claimed again that she was the last medicine woman in her lineage and she does consultations – whatever that is.
In my opinion, hearing her voice gives you a lot of vital information about who she really is. She seemed to me to break character and get more and more silly and Newagey as the interview progressed. My skin-dar is going off. The only time I’ve heard somebody talk about “Father sky??? is in the movies.
You can contact Tiokasin Ghosthorse to set him straight at:
tiokasin@gmail.com or leave a voicemail at (212) 209-2979
It was clear that the Elders and Teachers who sent AmyLee out into the world to share also supported her journey, many times accompanying her with a sense of pride. It was those very Elders who encouraged her to consent to my interview for Profiles in Wisdom.
AmyLee took an ethical stand in the 1990s at one of the Bear Tribe Medicine Wheel Gatherings in New York after several women came to her to complain of sexual improprieties involving other people. <snip> Things changed after AmyLee stepped forward, and her subsequent principled departure from the gathering.
I am the author of Profiles in Wisdom: Native Elders Speak About the Earth.
- AUTHOR, Profiles in Wisdom
October 1, 2008
Birdwoman began her spiritual path in 1969 after reading Don Juan, A Yaqui Way of Knowledge. She followed her spiritual path through nature based Indigenous studies.
In 1996 Birdwoman met Marrria, Katsi Boani at a Bear Tribe Medicine Wheel . Katsi Boani became Birdy's best friend and inspiration, as she encouraged Birdy to connect more deeply with her divine feminine. Up until that time, Birdy was spending much of her energy holding up a “tough-guy??? attitude, as she moved around the patriarchal community in which she worked.
...Birdwoman, is a producer on First Voices Indigenous Radio
TALON, Inc. which owns Her Native Roots Herbals (reminding readers that AmyLee is neither a Board Member nor a Shareholder, nor even a paid employee of either but was instead the Product-line Founder) employs the common and prudent business practice of hiring a cyber-reputation service to routinely sweep the internet to find misinformation about their businesses, including their products, their spokespeople, consultants, etc. It was that service which located and systematically approached sites wherein there was misinformation...
HNR's Founder AmyLee:
AmyLee is the last in her Lineage of Medicine Women. For over 22 years she has been a licensed Wildlife Rehabilitator, an Orator and writer on Native American Indian Healing Ways.
...regardless if it was an error which could mislead the public about their products, a blog in which a well meaning customer may have over-spoken the merits of their products or overstated credits of someone affiliated with the corporation...
At the same time you were dreaming about the Bird Flu and the Native American Indian Remedy for it, I was working away on my websites, one a public service site to help prepare people for the pandemic. www.BirdFluShopper.com will continue to carry the best sources of info on this global threat.
As a Native American Indian Medicine Woman, frustrated by the careless and costly and nearly worthless glut of herbal products on the market, I founded www.HerNativeRoots.com as an interactive health and well-being research site as well as the place to get my own herbal line of ethically wildcrafted and certified organic herbal formulae - including ANTI-PLAGUE FLORMULA, which INCLUDES THE INGREDIENTS FROM YOUR DREAM.
Pardon me if I am not so terribly surprised that you have been 'dreaming me,' as I am Iroquois...
Many, but not yet all, of the quotes from sites which over-state AmyLee’s merits or that party’s relationship to her (such as calling her their ‘Teacher’ or referring to her as an “Elder??? ) have indeed been removed.
It is curious that this forum in its paranoia considers “corrections of falsehoods, replacing them with fact??? to somehow be “suspicious!???
...I can assure you that the Administrators of this forum WILL be contacted by cyber-defamation Attorney Domingo Rivera, who now officially represents TALON, et al. (Still don’t believe me? CALL HIM!)
...your attempt to pigeon-hole her as “New Age??? makes little sense.
"If she is not (enrolled), and selling any product to include herself claiming it's American Indian or Native American. Then she is breaking the law here in the United States. I believe there are some good fines and jail time for that.... " Mike Putfus
FACT: Ms. AmyLee is NOT making and selling any Products herself. Hence, she is not violating the The Indian Arts and Crafts Act of 1990. Any products she speaks of, she is doing so on behalf of a corporation. Regardless, AmyLee has never stated that any product offered by the corporation was "American Indian Made." The Indian Arts and Crafts Act pertains only to those arts and crafts which could be construed as being American Indian in origin, and must thus be clearly marked if they are not made by American Indians.
FACT: Bottled Herbs are not considered a traditional American Indian Made Art or Craft. (Philosophy aside, that is the fact of law.) Her Native Roots Herbals have been offered TO Native Americans for free or at cost. Her Native Roots are NOT being promoted as an "Indian Product, produced by Indians, nor belonging to a specific Tribe nor Indian Arts and Crafts organization."
FACT: TALON, Inc., the corporation which owns the herbal product line called Her Native Roots does not claim to be selling "American Indian Made" Products. Their website clearly defines "Her" as referring to the Mother Earth; "Native" as referring to the indigenous plants of North, Central and South America; and "Roots" being the herbs themselves. TALON, Inc. is not violating the Indian Arts and Crafts Act of 1990.
FACT: The Traditional Mohawk Community of Kanatsiohareke consigned Her Native Roots Herbals to custom create products for them - at no profit to the corporation; (perhaps that is how the incorrect conclusion was drawn that the products were "Indian made?" They are not.). www.HerNativeRoots.com
FACT: AmyLee co-created that product formula for the Mohawk Community. She developed the "recipe" but does not produce the products alone, therefore the products are not being marketed as "Indian Made." The Indian Arts and Crafts Act only pertains to those Arts and Crafts objects which are falsely promoted as being "Indian made." Her Native Roots Herbals has never claimed to be "Indian made" ; instead they are "made for Indians!" (They are also offered to the general public, with the profits used to further support Native and Environmental projects.)
FACT: Contrary to Ms. Garcia's wishes, as posted in Reply #43 the Indian Arts and Crafts Act does not include anything but Arts and Crafts objects - and does not include "services" as much as Ms. Garcia would like it to. Regardless, neither Ms. AmyLee nor TALON, Inc. are selling anything nor selling any services in violation of the Indian Arts and Crafts Act.
FACT: No where did I read a post that TALON's attorney was "threatening to sue" anyone. The post only assures the Moderators and Readers that the attorney will be in contact. It is reasonable to deduct that to mean that the cyber-defamation attorney will follow due process and contact you with a request to correct or delete the fraudulant thread. One can reasonably presume that after due process is served, if not satisfied, the time to propose litigation may ensue, if there have been laws violated by this forum and/or its posters. (Even IF litigation is on his mind, he would FIRST follow the established protocol of contacting you with a request to remove the fraudulant and defaming thread, and if refused, you already know he has other options he would likely execute prior to suggesting protracted litigation to his clients.)
FACT: FYI - Character Defamation, Identity Theft, Fraud, Libel, Slander, Threat, Conspiracy, Copyright Infringement are all actionable grounds for litigation. But again, I did not read any post here stating that litigation on any of those grounds was the next logical step. Indeed, to pursue litigation before contacting you with a removal request would weaken the merits of any suit. I read the post to mean that you can expect to hear from TALON'S attorney with a removal request.
FACT: To repeat, as it appears necessary, neither Ms. AmyLee nor TALON, Inc. which owns Her Native Roots Herbals, have violated the Indian Arts and Crafts Act. Both United States and Tribal Courts would thus rule in favor of Ms. AmyLee and TALON, Inc. in this matter of selling objects in violation of the Indian Arts and Crafts Act.
FACT: To continue to wrongfully and unwarrantably accuse either Ms. AmyLee or TALON, Inc. of violating the Indian Arts and Crafts Act without basis in fact, is fraudulant and willfully misleading.
Those are the FACTS, for anyone interested. (I'm certain someone is.)
FACT: According to Educated Indian - he went to the time and expense of getting one of those computerized scams that gives you that system's best guess (more about that later) about a person named "Amylee Schwartz." WHAT? You can't even correctly spell the name of the imaginary person you are trying to research.
FACT: Educated Indian still doubts that TALON et al have an attorney - even though a poster said if anyone doubted that - just CALL HIM! (the attorney).
Wouldn't someone interested in FACTS pick up the phone or get on Skype from his Fulbright outpost in micronesia, and make the call? Why all this peripheral espionage - FACTS are often the simplest things to obtain! I find it baffling , and highly suspicious, that a historian would spend so much time chasing shadows when hard cold facts are a phonecall away.
FACT: I WILL apologize for anything I may have written which has caused others to be offended based on racial sensitivities, AFTER You reinstate my original membership which you terminated; and AFTER you reinstate my original text which you removed, and AFTER you take a POLL of your constituents and PUBLISH it here to see if anyone but you was even insulted. (I have my un-edited original text, if you need it.) To apologize to the forum readers based on your curious editing of my post is absurd. Replace my words and let me either defend them or recant them.
... ... ...
FACT: I'll be back, even if I have to re-register from another computer if I get banned again. I am also starting a new thread in Research Needed, to continue the discussion about enrollment v non-enrolled status. Since this thread is supposedly about AmyLee and there is no actual evidence she ever claimed to be (nor denied being) enrolled - I'm taking this issue elsewhere.
FACT: SuperDog - I had to laugh at your notion that if AmyLee simply told you her ancestry then "that fact alone would get her taken off this board." You aren't really that naive, are you? There's a witch-hunt here - and ANY FACTS that anyone has offered here have been quickly denounced. Even if she turns out to be an FBI-(Full Blooded Indian [Childish insult]) Card-wagging-documented descendent of some famous Chief - there are posters here who will call for her to be denounced as having somehow offended somebody.(Rose is ready to [Racism and race baiting] her just for having lighter skin than she does...ignoring the online photograph of AmyLee's real Mother -with obvious brown eyes, dark skin and raven black hair!) [Childish insult]The people who want to [Vicious racism and race baiting] are just baiting anyone who might possibly know anything about her so they can have that much more to tear apart. They have IGNORED FACTS that are right in front of their very noses - example - Rose's last [Childish insult] gesture defiantly asserts, [Childish Insults, Personal Insults, Racist Insults], "I say that Hawk Hollow is a fraudulant nonprofit organization that should have its tax exempt status removed!" That's [Childish insult] . If she read the actual posted FACTS and LINKS pertaining to the nonprofits she would understand that Hawk Hollow was an ADDRESS and never even had tax exempt status! So [Childish insult]! Rose, you got your wish - Hawk Hollow does not have any tax exempt status - [Childish insult] Should we overlook the FACT that it never did have tax-exempt status!
I am looking forward to seeing how this all turns out. I don't have a "horse in this race" except that I continue to root for FACTS - just the FACTS, ma'am, just the FACTS. (And I am wagering that there are quite a few people in the stands rooting right along with me.)
[Al's note: We don't reward childishness in here, so your dozens of juvenile insults were removed, along with numerous racist insults. You owe this forum an apology for your behavior.]
Actually, I for one would like everyone to see the poster’s entire own words without your editing. I, myself, have already read them as they were sent to me by the writer a few minutes after each post. From all the names on the address bar, it looks like many of your other members, and some other people of interest, may have also been sent his actual original words, and then yours, including Talon’s attorney.
So, please – let everyone else who hasn't already read his words, read exactly what was so offensive that you had to ban him - twice.
Also, it is important to note right here that he never referred to Southwest Skeptic as a "monkey" nor made any racial reference to her whatsoever – he merely referred to her own internet “squirrel??? icon that she herself uses to describe herself on this thread and on her linked website. Again - there was NO racial reference.
Also – the address that sent me the posts was not the one you listed, it read ConscienceRazor@live.com . If you choose not to restore the man’s actual texts perhaps others interested could email him for copies, or even email me – my address is still the same from my first post as well as being listed in the forum members directory.
In your New Member Intros he presents himself as humbly non-Indian, having been married to a Native woman and suggests they might have children together. I gathered that his concern for them is what led him to this forum. It’s clear from his posts and emails he doesn’t know AmyLee, he’s just an egghead stickler for facts and clarity, and I think he may be a law student, law professor, or something similar, based on the notes that accompanied the emails. If you don’t have the original texts any longer, I am sure some of us who received them can cut and paste them all and post them in with our own comments here.
Looking forward to voting on the Poll – which reminds me – Everybody registered in the U.S. – Don’t forget to VOTE Tuesday!!!