General > Frauds

Sweat lodges in Nottingham, UK

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TimberlineWarrior:
Heres a novel twist, you can chose a selection of activities, bat surveys, nature trails, brass bands, wildflower courses and sweat lodges. Just pop down to the local Council owned woods.
http://www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/countryparkevents.pdf
I did e-mail the Council and ask some details about the leaders qualifications but they never bothered to reply. Maybe somebody nearer might be interested in looking into the matter.

Timberline

TimberlineWarrior:
I contacted Nottingham Council and tried to make a complain about this happening and basically was told that they believe they are doing the right thing and allowing other people to share experiences from other cultures.
When I commented that to Native Americans this is a sacred ceremony the woman I spoke to wasn't interested and although she noted my comments she actually asked if I or others would be interested in attending so we can add to the authenticity of the event!
I will be writing an e-mail of complaint but should anyone else feel like adding their weight to stop this ripping off the woman to contact is;
linda.hardy@nottscc.gov.uk
She did comment that if there is sufficient feedback that such practices are causing offence they will review the situation and cease.

TimberlineWarrior

TimberlineWarrior:
I have mailed the woman and another regarding this.
This is my mail to her;
I telephoned you recently regarding the Native American attitude towards Sweat Lodges which we regard as a sacred ceremony.
We strongly believe that these should never be performed by somebody who is not correctly accreditted by the Lakota people and fully trained by them to perform these. As correct sweat lodges have to be led by an Elder and or a hereditary Pipe Carrier and as far as can be assertained Jason Sewell has recieved no such recognition nor has any organisation called Turtle Lodge that this person and this organisation are charlatans.
We also strongly hold against the selling of any ceremony or ritual and regard such as theft.
These matters, as well as our conversation, have now been brought to the attention of several organisations who fight against frauds, plastic shamen and people and organisations who perform sacred ceremonies and rituals for their own profit especially without authorisation of the authentic users. They have also been forwarded to The American Indian Movement and will be forwarded to local and National newspapers.

I recieved this reply;

I have received your email and am considering your complaint in the same way that I would consider any complaint from a member of the public about an event held at one of Nottinghamshire's country parks.  It will take some time to gather the facts and consult both Jason Sewell who runs the course, the park manager and the ranger team who receive feedback from people who have attended events of the type you criticise.  As a public authority we must proceed in a fair and measured way, listening to both sides.
I understand that you and your lobby group hold strong feelings on this matter, but I do not believe that there is anything to be gained by aggressive, threatening or defamatory language, and I would suggest that we will proceed better by refraining from this.
I would like to make it quite plain that it is not our intention to be drawn into a conflict over Native American rights.  We are a County Council and deal with issues which are relevent to Nottinghamshire citizens.  Our decision as to whether or not we should continue to include these events at Bestwood Country Park will be based on:
Whether local people and park users want them.
Whether they are run in a safe manner, following health and safety legislation
Whether they are conducted in a responsible way, for example open to adults only
In addition, as one of the aims of the park is to encourage use by people on low incomes, we give preference to low price events and avoid those which are designed solely to make a profit from participants.  
I will get back to you when we have had time to gather the above issues.

Linda Hardy

I'm not sure what defamatory language I used, but she seems to think I did. Maybe it was referring to Jason Sewell as a charlatan?
I have replied to this;

I would like to add to your comments.
1 It was not my intention to be aggressive or abusive and having read the mail I sent do not believe I was.
2 All of the people I am involved with have Native American blood and are recognised Native Americans.
If you were running say a mock Muslim ceremony without an accreddited or authorised leader and recieved complaints I am my companions are certain you would take the matter more seriously.

From the original conversation I had with her and this mail I don't believe she has any intention of stopping these sweats, certainly not at the moment anyway. The more she says she is actually justifying holding them in fact. Firstly her belief that they are offering people a chance to experience other cultures and now that people on low income are benefitting. That statement alone contradicts the principals of a sweat as when were people on low income ever charged or even paid more than they could afford for a sweat?

Barnaby_McEwan:
There is also the 'health and safety' problem. People die in these lodges, as Gordon Reynolds did in 1996 in Somerset. He left behind a wife and two kids, though the people who wrapped him in a blanket after he developed heat exhaustion and then hyperthermia were unconcerned about that, believing he was lucky to die in such 'spiritual' circumstances. This is an appalling display of the bone-headed arrogance of newagers.

'Man died in New Age purification ritual', Sean O'Neill, London Daily Telegraph, Friday 22 November 1996:


--- Quote --- After the hearing, Penny Butterell, the owner of the farmland, said that members of the group had been upset by Mr Reynolds's death. "But they felt privileged to be around when he left," she added. "It's not often somebody gets that nice a way of going - to be totally prepared, out in the open with the stars. It was his time to go and he went. He was quiet and totally happy."

Mrs Reynolds, a former nurse who shared her husband's interest in American Indian culture, said her husband's death should be a warning to others. She said: "Although the people who organised this sweat lodge were my friends, I have to speak out. They say Gordon's spirit is set free, but how do I answer a six-year-old who says 'I want Daddy here on earth'?"
--- End quote ---

Le_Weaponnier:
It seems to me that this person is overly cautious, so perhaps emphasising the risks of improperly conducted 'sweats' might be the best bet.
They are not going to want to allow something if they have been told it might be dangerous, particularly, if you ADVISE them of the danger and point out that if something does go wrong, the blame will be pointed squarely back at them for failing to address safety concerns.

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