I barely know where to begin as this is hopefully going to be my one and only statement. (I have a life.)
Firstly, while I think “JB??? is trying to make some sense of this wayward thread, I am always a little suspect of both “media??? and “lawyers.
Could be JB is trying to get something sensational to turn Amylee into a hot media ticket to “book??? elsewhere? If so, you all are certainly helping – media thrives on controversy! (Good luck, JB, as I think she’s only made one television and two radio appearances in 30 or so years - for free and as favors to friends, and they picked the topics. She’s never had an “Agent??? nor expressed to us an interest in getting one.) Or could be JB is sincerely trying to get to all the facts. Regardless, I have no problem sending my “evidence??? to the email address and am confident it will land on that lawyer’s desk. I am interested in his legal opinion as long as I’m not footing the bill. Kevin asks why send it to JB? Makes sense to me – sounds like the lawyer is either doing this as a favor to JB or maybe for a flat fee, as long as JB does the research-gathering and sends it to him for a one-time look-see. Otherwise, if we sent a stream of email directly to the lawyer, it could rack up a bigger tab for JB or a bigger freebie commitment than the lawyer was wanting to make. Those are my rational deductions. Now, onto more FACTS, for which all my hard evidence is being forwarded to Mr. J.B. Wingo.
-Racism-
This response is directed at Kathryn and her posts on this thread. I have known Amylee spanning 3 decades and worked the same place as her in the past. You state that Amylee is “hurting Native American women.
Amylee IS a Native American woman! YOU are hurting her! That you attempt to deny her her birthright, based on hearsay, heresy, her-say makes you the racist. That you presume the right to speak on behalf of all Native American women, without their consensus, while you yourself are white, also makes you the racist. We each have our own voices. You are acting out of a delusional sense of presumptuous entitlement by declaring we have been somehow hurt by Amylee – that’s racist, condescending and harms all people. You take it upon yourself to “protect??? Native and other women – as though women needed your paternalistic ego-driven interference. You wrongly declare Amylee only taught “white women??? – solely based on who was in attendance where you or your white informants were! How ignorant. Or arrogant. (Both being ingredients in racism.) I know better – I was at more than one Native community where she was asked to share with Native Women. I also crossed the border with her and saw her ID’s.
By the way, the big Iriqouis “secrets??? Amylee shared with white women? It was the same thing the Iriquois women have been openly sharing with U.S. women since the days of suffrage – about how to take responsibility for yourselves and how to gain equality, not by whining for it, but by earning it and living it! And the “shields??? thing – the shields she talked about were metaphorical – like skin, ozone, topsoil, forest canopies – and how those “shields??? of nature have been compromised and it’s up to humans to act responsibly to mend them. You can read about that in Profiles In Wisdom (just not in Rose’s hallucinatory edition – see “Proof??? below). She used a modern leather artwork “shield??? that had a story painted on it (not an imitation ceremonial or historical Plains shield) just to illustrate the fables she told. Through those fables she helped others find their own strong and moral voices. That’s all. There was never any “charge for ceremony??? (“obscene??? in Amylee’s eyes) and never any “local groups??? you mention, and so there were never any “white men??? to be “left in charge??? of those nonexistent “groups!??? Ludicrous! Those are your “big sacred secrets’ you are thinking she “co-opted.
So where on this site is the official mandate issued by any tribe, Native community, traditional government asking you to take it upon yourself, to go after someone, on their tribal behalf by calling her names with legal implications (“liar??? “fraud??? “racist???) for teaching respect for the environment, and for others and for oneself, and to teach it for free? No where do I see on this site a request by Iriquois women for you to try to ruin someone’s reputation with your lies. That presumptive act on your part is racist. You do not speak for Native American women. You do not speak for the Iriquois. You do not speak for me. Stop it.
MatoSiWin - You talk about “putting out the fires??? caused by new agers – you should ask Amylee how many fires caused by new agers she tried to extinguish! (I think that’s why she retired from public life – “burned out??? over new age nonsense. At least that’s what one of the books she’s in implies.) Example: about Amylee appearing at the Bear Tribe – lots of good people came and went, like R. Carlos Nakai, Dr. Eunice Baumann, and many, many others! When Amylee learned women were abused by so-called Elders there, she took a stand and said she could not give women the false impression it was safe there, by virtue of her being there too. She also asked them to not offer co-ed sweat lodges. She asked them to stop calling those lodges and ceremonies “traditional.
When they declined, she made her courageous statement (she was still young to be talking that way to anyone older) and respectfully left – then she took out ads in magazines asking women who had been abused at any kind of so-called spiritual gathering to contact her and the professionals she worked with if they wanted support. I was one. That was in the late 1980’s or early1990! What were YOU doing back then? Is that how Amylee hurt women, Kathryn? By going to the same gathering you were at? And then proactively and respectfully addressing a serious problem as soon as she learned about it? Is it any wonder she wanted to “retire??? from public life!
- A Rose to the occasion -
To Southwest Skeptic – You are so young – about same age as my granddaughter. You need to slow down – this is an obsession you started. IF you are the same one who took Amylee’s photo (which my husband photographed) from a copyrighted site and used it to set up fake online accounts in her name to make her look ‘new-age’ that is a crime. ( IP checking works both ways, Rose.) IF you are the one who put her name on porn sites to make it look like she was into that – that is a crime too. It was not Amylee but someone who tried to slander Amylee in a post that got taken off Native Tube - and no one there was laughing. (I am forwarding a copy of Native Tube’s chastisement, and the IP they provided as the slanderer’s, as “evidence??? for the law-boy.) The Michigan women forum does not criticize her in any way. Post the link here if you think it does. Further, you have stated that she was “posting??? on and then “laughed off??? the Indian Tribe Forum link:
http://forum.americanindiantribe.com/viewtopic.php?t=6077&start=0 but there is no evidence she EVER even posted there! That link you provide to American Indian tribe’s forum doesn’t say she “posted??? but that she instead (may have – maybe it was you!) privately EMAILED one of the posters! Just HOW MANY ERRORS is a poster here allowed before a Moderator or Administrator pulls the plug and apologizes?
You now add “plagiarist??? to your slanderous and undocumented accusations against Amylee. Again, no proof. Just more RRC ancient echoes. Then you advertise in these very posts, YOUR alleged crime of multiple copyright infringements in addition to the likely lies you submitted to bait Native leaders to reply. Again, you are so young…
SouthWest, you state: “She also claims to be the only daughter of an only daughter, yet her sisters, neices and aunts have a different opinion.
Now I know you are either barking up the wrong family tree or delusional. If she ever had birth “Sisters and Nieces??? and if she still has living Aunts, please let her know who these mythic beings are! It would lighten the grief of believing she is an orphan now. Also, speaking from my first hand knowledge, I am certain Amylee would not know how to “upload??? any obituaries and I am fairly certain she would deem the internet an inappropriate venue for such intimate tributes.
- Very Important -
I further concur with JB, as you (Rose/Southwest skeptic) grossly misquoted Amylee about the radio show. The most memorable to me was when you posted here that Amylee
“claimed to be fluent in the Iroquois language, but she couldn’t translate her Indian name “She who catches rainbows??? because every word is a sentence and it would be quite a long run on sentence to combine.
That is a lie. And, a run-on sentence. Actually two lies in one run-on sentence. Both being bold-faced LIES YOU created. She wasn’t even talking about her name – she was asked about synonyms for the “broad and evolving multiple definitions of a modern day medicine woman??? (there’s the transcript, Rose. Read it and weep). You clearly did not want to hear those words, as that shoots down your whole campaign against her - which has as its basis YOUR LIE that she ever claimed to be a “traditional medicine woman FOR or TO any tribe!??? She works with animals! THAT’S what she said on the radio! She’s a ‘modern-day medicine woman’ to animals! NOT to any tribe or people!
(Be ashamed. Be very ashamed.)
You then beg us to believe you with your next pathetic plea:
Nothing I posted was “deceptive??? and I don’t know how anyone could “defame??? the great medicine womon (sic) with her own words. Nothing was misrepresented in my posts. I quoted AmyLee directly.
You may “hear with your own ears,??? and “read with your own eyes,??? but they are twisted beyond believability. YOU are the ONLY person who ever “heard??? Amylee say your translation.
(You’re on a slippery slope, Rose. If someone here offers you some help, please take it.)
The letter from Paul Spicer was in direct response to the false information supplied him by SouthwestSkeptic. The things she wrongfully accused Amylee of doing are things Amylee herself would also label “fraudulent and inappropriate.
She never did any of them during the 3 decades I knew her. How does anyone “prove??? to your satisfaction that someone never did something! Impossible! But just as impossible then will be producing credible “proof??? she ever did things like “sell Wolf Clan Memberships!??? (She’s not even Wolf Clan herself!!!!) Amylee never condoned the “Wolf Clan??? activities of Twylah Nitsch who spawned a lot of “instant Wolf Clan members.
Twy was an elder, and out of respect Amylee would not have publicly spoken against those activities, but she sure never endorsed their goings-on either. This whole thread is wrong in too many ways. With Amylee’s proven track record against cultural appropriation and racism, she should have been invited to be an advisor to your forum, not targeted by it!
- More Evidence -
By the way, Rose, I see you posted :
Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2008, 09:20:50 pm »
“I got a list of Mohawk/Seneca tribal leaders and wrote/emailed them.
The first response I recieved was from Chief Paul Spicer
He gave me permission to post his response to my inquiries:
….As more come in I'll post them.
(wink)
Then on April 9th, 2008, at another forum, not so surprisingly hosted by RRC mouthpieces, you claim:
Re: Information about Amylee please!
???I contacted every tribal leader of the Seneca and Mohawk Nation, and they all bascially said, she's offensive to them and they don't consider her to be a medicine woman or a representative of their spiritual beliefs. This is what Chief Paul Spicer had to say. He gave me permission to post his thoughts….
The obvious question here is, Rose, where are all the other alleged replies from all the other Iroquois communities that “all basically said she’s offensive to them….
You have set yourself up to now have to produce the very evidence you claim to have received. Where is a copy of the EXACT letter you sent them? Where are all the “replies??? you state you have received as a matter of FACT? And why did you not return to this thread to “post them,??? “as more come in,??? as you so promised, punctuated with your “wink?
It’s been 7 months….Post them –Here – Now - if they exist beyond your perverse wishes.
-To Dan and SuperDog –
“Dan??? – I did like your comments. I wish you could have met Amylee in person. I think you’d have liked her and I know she’d have understood and respected your opinions as being a part of your heart and not your ego.
SuperDog – you may be this site’s sole redeeming voice of reason. About the disappearing “digital footprint??? – the internet does change – by the nano-second. But, I’m also betting some people who misrepresented Amylee simply “corrected their errors??? though I don’t know who brought those errors to their attention. – I am also wagering that THIS entire thread will be held accountable for its libelous errors and eventually do the same thing – disappear. I don’t see that Amylee actually has her own digital footprint, other than one posted review she made elsewhere in support of a traditional elder – otherwise, it’s all other people writing about her and possibly quoting her or, like Miss Skeptic, misquoting her or the frauds who set up accounts in her name, using her stolen image. (“Digital mis-prints!??? instead of digital footprints).
- A Challenge -
Anybody here want to take over Amylee’s “spiritual group project??? she asked her last audience to do? Go to ebay every week (as some of us have done for the past 12 years) and type in the word “squaw.
Then one by one email those couple hundred sellers with the note Amylee wrote for us to tactfully correct their misuse of the word, and ask them to change their listing and to then educate others about it being so offensive, derogatory and racist. So much for how Amylee “hurts Native American women!???
Barnaby – If you ever go to Tehanetorens’ (Ray Fadden’s) Museum in Onchiota, you will see a photo of Ray sitting next to his longtime good friend and MUTUAL supporter, Amylee, with a hawk standing on a stump between them. Ray’s the one with silver streaks in his flaming red hair. (It was a long time ago. My husband; again the photographer.) Amylee directed the surgical team which removed and replaced the injured hawk’s cornea – deemed to be one of the most difficult medical procedures in animal veterinary medicine - that makes her a “modern day medicine woman??? (and hero) in my book, and in many other credible professionals’ estimation. You were saying?
- The Proof –
Steven McFadden’s interview of AmyLee, like all interviews, never contains poor edits or errors, and interviewees always know who else is going to make the final cut and appear in the author’s book – right? Wrong. Regardless, go to the link Rose/Southwest Skeptic herself posts and remember her own words as they now come back to shame her here and conclusively demonstrate how she manipulates facts. SHE STATES:
???Anyone who wants to can check out the book I referenced here:
https://millennium.marmot.org:444/search~S93?/dNew+Age+movement+--+Handbooks,+manuals,+etc./dnew+age+movement+handbooks+manuals+etc/-3%2C-1%2C0%2CB/frameset&FF=dnew+age+movement+north+america&1%2C1%2C…Some of the other alleged elders are: Dhyani Ywahoo, Twyla Nitsch, Sun Bear, Oh Shinnah and Hunbatz Men. The contents refer to AmyLee as “Massapowa for the people of the morning light.
For anyone here actually interested in FACTS you will see in the online table of contents of Rose’s own posted link - that Rose has once again erred. AmyLee is NOT referred to as “Massapowau for the People of the Morning Light.
That is the NEXT chapter’s title and about a Wampanoag man! (How could you make that mistake from also having your own “hard copy,??? Rose?) I suspect much of what she has misrepresented here is due to misreading and mishearing. Given the sheer number of errors she has made yet vehemently defends, I reasonably suspect Rose may have a learning or perceptual problem. (At least that would make a good defense in a courtroom.) (The rest of you? No such excuses.) Other comments by her are clearly fraudulent and then there is guilt by omission – such as failing to mention that the revered Elders, Tom Porter and Eunice Baumann-Nelson and Lorraine Canoe were also interviewed for the same book. She also fails to note that Amylee seemed embarrassed and apologetic to be in a book about “Native Elders??? when she herself said in the book’s interview, that she was clearly not one. (Did you catch that Kathryn – applying it to your January 30, 2008 comment that Amylee referred to herself, “claiming to be an Elder??? several years prior to this book’s publication! It never happened. Insert apology here: .)
I could follow each of Rose’s so-called excerpts from the book and re-type the actual words that appear in the text. Example, Rose’s rendition: “Grandma zapped cancer off a man’s face with her laserlike hands.
(McFadden, p. 183)
While the actual text reads, from a little girl’s memory, “…a big ugly growth – it wasn’t really a wart, it was probably a cancer of some sort….
BIG Difference Rose.
And adding her own false editorials as though they were in the book: “Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve (A non-profit 501 c 3 ) her medicine place…??? (McFadden, p. 181) The actual TEXT does NOT say ANYWHERE that the former Nature Preserve was “(A non-profit 501 c 3)
– that is entirely Rose’s inserted fabrication, fraudulently passed off as someone else’s words – complete with deceptive legal implications - anyone else seeing a disturbing trend here?
And this one:
“… told him to be grateful to the cancer for teaching him …???
(McFadden, p. 183) The word “cancer??? is entirely Rose’s word choice.
How is the reader supposed to know – especially when she places QUOTE MARKS around it! I could go on for the entirety of her alleged “quotes.
Want more, or are as you nauseated too?
I can’t resist – just one more, I’ll swallow hard :
“The medicine of the shields will work only in the woodlands.
(McFadden, p. 194) Again with the quote marks. Well, only if you are quoting yourself, Rose. No one else said such a thing! For anyone with a copy of the book, if you care to follow along, you will see this sad woman’s attempt to be her own little super-hero squirrel, cracking imaginary nuts, one at a time (as she boasts on her own website and on her choice of logo ID when posting here). This is profoundly disturbing, and that anyone believes her, well, that’s just lazy slander by proxy.
Rose concludes, “Is AmyLee responsible for allowing her picture to be published in this book along with all the bogus claims she made in print? This is HER interview with HER own words. The book was published in 1991 and it’s still available online. How do you explain her ridiculous claims now?
Better question, Rose, how do you explain falsifying quotes, attempting to further defame Amylee with your libelous claims now? To hand your own earlier pronouncement about Amylee back to you: (she) “…makes it so easy to disprove her bogus claims it’s like she wants to get caught.
Consider yourself caught, Rose, and on your own many jagged and inescapable thorns. Now somebody do the right thing, and help this young woman!
THIS is precisely the kind of sloppy research that is on this whole site. It’s as though someone dropped several dozen jigsaw puzzles on the internet and all you super-sleuths are trying to make ONE pre-conceived damning picture out of the fragmented non-fitting pieces. Even if you cut corners and force the mismatched pieces into one picture – it’s still doomed as two-dimensional and hardly representative of real live Truth.
Trying to insert FACTS into this hostile territory is exhausting, but a slander campaign so mis-targeted deserves a few knowledgeable people who will stand up for Truth. (You’re welcome, Amylee, wherever you are.) I now take my leave - as Kathryn and cadre yell after me the only way you know how to handle someone with a different opinion based on first-hand facts, and now irrefutably demonstrated evidence, which trumps all this posted fictitious prattle. I hear your railing rant echoing at my back: “Prove it!??? “Troll!??? “Shill!??? “Racist!??? “Fraud!??? “Libelor!??? “Liar!??? “Duped Stupid Woman!???
(Look in the mirror.)
