I believe it is Danish Kroner? If so.. then, 1000 kr = 181.05 usd and 500 kr = 90.53 usd
I believe it is Danish Kroner? If so.. then, 1000 kr = 181.05 usd and 500 kr = 90.53 usd
Looks like it's probably Norwegian Kroner. This site http://coinmill.com/USD_calculator.html gives 1000 NOK as $168.10 USD.
"This is unique in Norway.
We've received some complaints about this guy. He's claiming to be an Apache Medicine Man, and is apparently selling sweats and NAC ceremonies to all-white groups in Europe. There are also reports of him doing private ceremonies specifically for women. Uh oh. Looks to me like yet another who couldn't muster a following here, so crossed the water to sell to the Europeans.
This is an email that was sent out to potential recruits in Denmark. Can someone tell us what the bolded charges equate to in US currency?
We've received some complaints about this guy. Reports are that he's claiming to be an Apache Medicine Man, and is selling sweats and NAC ceremonies to all-white groups in Europe. There are also reports of him doing private ceremonies specifically for women. Looks to me like yet another who couldn't muster a following here, so crossed the water to sell to the Europeans.
Democrats and Allies Rally Against the Prohibition of Marijuanahttp://www.colorado420.com/news/dnc.index.html
Fri., Aug. 22
2:30 pm to 5:00pm
West Steps of State Capitol Building
As progressive voters we share the responsibility of repudiating seventy years of failed policy on marijuana. The prohibition of marijuana takes a toll on our treasury, and on people's lives. We are rallying to demand that our government repeal the repressive criminal laws that pretend to deny us the safest intoxicant and excellent medicine which is marijuana. Securing America's future requires that we end the drug-Gulag, and stop imprisoning citizens for private and harmless conduct. At the conclusion of our rally, we march on the Denver Police Administration Building, to demand that the Denver Police Department stop defying Municipal Ordinance Sec. 38-176, which requires the City to make enforcement of the state statute prohibiting the possession of marijuana its lowest priority, and to insist that Chief Gerald R. Whitman resign immediately for his abrogation of the Law. We contend that under the Home Rule provision of the Constitution of the State of Colorado, it is already legal in Denver under state law for adults to possess up to an ounce of marijuana.
PROGRAM
Opening Ceremony - Hector Ybarra (tepatl),
Native American Dance Troupe Mitotilitzli
Introduction - Brian Vicente
Sensible Colorado, National Lawyer's Guild, People's Law Project
Medical Marijuana - Richard Eastman, Citizens for Safe Access, National Marijuana Activist
Keynote Address: Robert J. Correy, Jr., Marijuana Defense Attorney
Marijuana Media - Adriana, Producer, Marijuana Radio
Thought & Provocation - Mckenna, marijuanaradio.com
Political Agenda - Robert Chase, Team 420 VRD Organizer, Mensan & Member of the Triple Nine Society
Address to the Marijuana Movement - Miguel Lopez. Executive Director of Denver's Annual 420 Rally,
Contacts: Miguel Lopez (720) 338-8766 & Robert Chase (303) 513-2185, Team 420
More DNC "Green" Events:
http://www.denver420.com/
I don't think anyone is condoning the selling of ceremony in Europe or anywhere else. The point that was being made was that these are damaging accusations which could ruin a person's reputation and life and we have no sources, nothing that we can research. Yes, there are blips about the event in several Norwegian facebook accounts and the flyer. None of us speak Norwegian. It'd be nice to see something about Ybarra in English. In fact, it'd be nice to have something besides facebook. If he's such an exploiter, you'd think there'd be something more on the internet about him.
Kathryn started this thread with:QuoteWe've received some complaints about this guy. Reports are that he's claiming to be an Apache Medicine Man, and is selling sweats and NAC ceremonies to all-white groups in Europe. There are also reports of him doing private ceremonies specifically for women. Looks to me like yet another who couldn't muster a following here, so crossed the water to sell to the Europeans.
Where in any of those facebook messages does it say anything about "private ceremonies specifically for women"? Comments like that could lead someone to believe Ybarra is a sexual predator, even though there is no proof of that, not even an innuendo.
I think we need to be very careful about making unfounded accusations. There are enough people criticizing NAFPS for what we do, accusing us of being witch hunters and condemning without doing our research. We don't have to live down to their opinions.
I don't think anyone is condoning the selling of ceremony in Europe or anywhere else.
The point that was being made was that these are damaging accusations which could ruin a person's reputation and life and we have no sources, nothing that we can research.
If he's such an exploiter, you'd think there'd be something more on the internet about him.
I think we need to be very careful about making unfounded accusations. There are enough people criticizing NAFPS for what we do, accusing us of being witch hunters and condemning without doing our research. We don't have to live down to their opinions.
I don't think anyone is condoning the selling of ceremony in Europe or anywhere else. The point that was being made was that these are damaging accusations which could ruin a person's reputation and life and we have no sources, nothing that we can research. Yes, there are blips about the event in several Norwegian facebook accounts and the flyer. None of us speak Norwegian. It'd be nice to see something about Ybarra in English. In fact, it'd be nice to have something besides facebook. If he's such an exploiter, you'd think there'd be something more on the internet about him.
Kathryn started this thread with:QuoteWe've received some complaints about this guy. Reports are that he's claiming to be an Apache Medicine Man, and is selling sweats and NAC ceremonies to all-white groups in Europe. There are also reports of him doing private ceremonies specifically for women. Looks to me like yet another who couldn't muster a following here, so crossed the water to sell to the Europeans.
Where in any of those facebook messages does it say anything about "private ceremonies specifically for women"? Comments like that could lead someone to believe Ybarra is a sexual predator, even though there is no proof of that, not even an innuendo.
I think we need to be very careful about making unfounded accusations. There are enough people criticizing NAFPS for what we do, accusing us of being witch hunters and condemning without doing our research. We don't have to live down to their opinions.QuoteI don't think anyone is condoning the selling of ceremony in Europe or anywhere else.
Well in my initial post in this thread, I for one stated that some here have said they were against PODIA or NONs being allowed in any native ceremony, or that they should only be allowed in certain ones.
I am under the impression that you for one would believe that way, and that is fine. However if that is true of you and a few others on here, then why would it be okay for this man to even conduct ceremonies in Europe in your eyes and not okay for people here to allow NONs or PODIA people in ceremonies here in the states?
Perhaps you should clarify your stance on that issue???
My opinion on the matter is this. The traditions and ceremonies of a certain people or tribe belong to those people, and were gifted to them by the creator. If those people and their spiritual leaders see fit to allow people from other tribes, PODIA's, or even NON's in such things that is their choice and right.
I for one have seen with my own eyes and been present, when well known elders have allowed PODIA's and even NON's whom they were close to and trusted into sweats and other things. They key point to this matter is that these NON's or PODIA's whom were allowed in, were ones that the elder or his family had known for a great deal of time, and trusted etc.
On one occasion I listened to one elder I was close to speak to his daughter in law whom ran sweats for women, and at that time the topic of NON's in sweats and other things came up. The elder asked his daughter in law what she felt about getting NON's involved in things like sweats if they were going to do it in a good way, which of course meant doing so with respect and not becoming an exploiter or anything similar.
Her reply to him was that really she didn't have an issue with it, but was against it because of the tremendous amount of energy it would take to help these people, and that because NDN people were hurting so badly, they should be helped and not NON's. The elder thought about it, and then he agreed with her. All of that made sense to me.
As you know, NDN people are hurting really bad, and their ceremonies should be for them first and foremost, even if I am not against elders and spiritual leaders helping NON's and PODIA's if they see fit and it is okay with their people and community.
So to me this throws into question why some man would be way over in Europe running native ceremonies for NON's??? Did some tribe or their spiritual leaders send him on some mission to help these people, and why would they when this should be done for NDN people here. If you are going to help NON's, why not help ones here since doing so would give them an NDN world view and better help NDN people here both politically and spiritually?
Why even go to Europe period, when the spiritual ways of NDN people are not like Christianity and we do not seek to "convert" people to our ways???
This man, regardless of what his name, is obviously attracting attention to himself and to me that and what his actions are over there are indicative of new age hocus pocus and most likely plastic shame-on fraud activityQuoteThe point that was being made was that these are damaging accusations which could ruin a person's reputation and life and we have no sources, nothing that we can research.
On the contrary, as has already been pointed out, this is "research needed," so how is this any different then what has been said in any other thread in this section?
I have seen in other threads where people have been compared to child molesters or something to that effect with no such proof they were anything of the sort, and much was said with just as little or no sources to actually investigate just as in this thread.
So how is this any different then any other research needed thread?
Nothing here has been said to indicate this person is actually guilty of these actions any more so then the many numerous threads in this section of NAPFS.QuoteIf he's such an exploiter, you'd think there'd be something more on the internet about him.
True, unless this is his very first time with people finding out about him. Everything and everyone have their start and finish.
QuoteI think we need to be very careful about making unfounded accusations. There are enough people criticizing NAFPS for what we do, accusing us of being witch hunters and condemning without doing our research. We don't have to live down to their opinions.
Again, how is this thread in research needed any different then any other one????
Multiple private communications came in, from multiple Scandinavian sources, who say the flyer and emails are about the same guy. The photo was in the original email, but didn't upload properly in the initial posting.
When we are contacted privately with information, we investigate. We protect confidentiality when it is requested.
Multiple private communications came in, from multiple Scandinavian sources, who say the flyer and emails are about the same guy. The photo was in the original email, but didn't upload properly in the initial posting.
When we are contacted privately with information, we investigate. We protect confidentiality when it is requested.
I'm not sure what about that is unclear. It is very, very common for people who are hesitant to post in the forum to write to the mods and administrators and ask for help. There is nothing new about this.
We are not going to publish people's private communications. What I posted was an email that appears to have been sent out to a fairly large group of people, a flyer that was posted on facebook by Hector Ybarra's friend, and multiple public advertisements for the European workshops and "private consultations". The people who have contacted us with specific complaints about their in-person dealings with him have been asked to join the forum and speak for themselves.
Is this more clear?
I hesitate to reply to your post, Rattle, because you always take it as a personal attack on you or those you're close to. This is not the case.
I have never stated that nons or PODIA's shouldn't be allowed in ceremony. That choice is not mine to make. The decision to include non-Natives in ceremonies would be up to those to whom Creator gave them.
Why is Hector Ybarra in Europe? I don't know. There isn't enough information out there to answer that question. Should he be in Europe conducting ceremonies? That would be up to his community, his Elders. There's the question about selling ceremony . . . That is always wrong; ceremony is not for sale. Is Ybarra actually selling ceremony or has something been lost or added in translation? I don't know.
This wouldn't be the first American Indian to go to Europe. Some are definitely exploiters, while others are not. Until we know more about Hector Ybarra, we can't put him in one category or the other.
In most cases, there is data we can find on those who land in Research Needed. The person who starts a thread will have read something that gives an indication that the individual is a fraud and/or exploiter and links are given to that reference. When someone "hears something" or "sees something", they usually give at least a little information about who they heard it from or where they saw it. If someone called you with a complaint about this individual, say so. If you received an e-mail, post it. I understand the need for anonymity, but you can say you received a call from someone without saying who called you or an e-mail can be posted without giving information that would disclose who the author was. I've seen Al start threads in this way. To simply say "We've received some complaints about this guy" is not enough. Who is doing the complaining? How did you receive these complaints? The fact that there is nothing on the internet, in English, makes me wonder about all this.
As I said earlier . . . I think we need to be very careful about making unfounded accusations. There are enough people criticizing NAFPS for what we do, accusing us of being witch hunters and condemning without doing our research. We don't have to live down to their opinions.
So my point with this is, that if I read people on this board making it known that a person should be put in this category simply for the fact they potentially are, or are rumored to have NON's or PODIA's in native ceremonies; then I do not see why objections are being raised when this individual is said to, or is rumored to be doing the exact same thing. To me that is no different then looking up a court case and saying was done in this case, and therefore our decision is this. So in regards to this, I am saying it is not unlike comparing this to a court case and saying "this person was put under investigation for having NON's in native ceremonies so in this particular case this individual is being investigated as well."
It is no secret to anyone that when such things are going on, it may not always be a reason for concern, but more likely then not it is.
I am sure you could look through many many threads in this category and find people under investigation for pretty much the same thing. If this reason is justification for one person, then it should be justification for anyone who does it.
You are correct that the ethics of this board should be kept in mind, and I am saying part of that should be consistency by it's members. In my opinion that is not happening in this thread when people are raising objections simply to putting this individual under investigation, when similar investigations have been done on others for similar reasons, with a great deal of them not being stated as fact but rather just investigation.
Only quoting part of Rattle's last post, the part I want to address.So my point with this is, that if I read people on this board making it known that a person should be put in this category simply for the fact they potentially are, or are rumored to have NON's or PODIA's in native ceremonies; then I do not see why objections are being raised when this individual is said to, or is rumored to be doing the exact same thing. To me that is no different then looking up a court case and saying was done in this case, and therefore our decision is this. So in regards to this, I am saying it is not unlike comparing this to a court case and saying "this person was put under investigation for having NON's in native ceremonies so in this particular case this individual is being investigated as well."
It is no secret to anyone that when such things are going on, it may not always be a reason for concern, but more likely then not it is.
I am sure you could look through many many threads in this category and find people under investigation for pretty much the same thing. If this reason is justification for one person, then it should be justification for anyone who does it.
You are correct that the ethics of this board should be kept in mind, and I am saying part of that should be consistency by it's members. In my opinion that is not happening in this thread when people are raising objections simply to putting this individual under investigation, when similar investigations have been done on others for similar reasons, with a great deal of them not being stated as fact but rather just investigation.
I don't think anyone has ever been investigated solely because they included non-Natives or PODIA's in their ceremonies. That really isn't a big concern. Those decisions are better left to the Nations to which the ceremonies belong. Some of the people investigated here may include non-Natives in their ceremonies, but it is not the compelling force behind their inclusion in Research Needed. Each and every one of them has crossed other lines which warranted their investigation.
"It is a small death to be in a sweat lodge. There is then the opportunity to build new up afterwards."
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=113824469&blogID=386568955QuoteSunday, April 27, 2008Ben Carnes
European speaking tour in AugustQuoteThe purposes of this tour is to continue to educate and raise awareness of Native issues, promote the goals of Eagle Mountain and to raise funds to help secure the land and build our infrastructure. See our website for more information .
I would also like to have some benefit shows organized there to help raise funds to secure the land, build energy efficient homes and create our own source of power using wind and sun.
For more information on arranging a presentation or benefit in Europe, contact Quetzal Tzab at: tzab.quetzal@gmail.com
Thank you,
Ben Carnes
Wel, Hector Ybarra has bien not only doing bad here in USA but also now whith his way of goin he also is goin to start not only doing bad ! but also given a wrong Idea of what is really tradition ! ( saling the tradition ) , and how is posible that somebody who call his self a traditional way is not whith his self a goed man ! HE , has to be stop !
It is allways like that kelsie ,she can not have a discusion because inmediatilly she goes to faith and make treads to people ! i ask if that is the principies of her teachings as NAC menber ( i doubt ) and abouth Sunka Gleska ( i dont think is his name ), he is a guy half Irish half german ! whith respect of races but is that Lakota? i will send a note to the people of dincoalition.org . they mey know abouth him or at least to guet to know of somebody who is doing thinks in behave of then ! i also find a pity that Kelsie so much angry answer That is not a Native way of react ! whith all my respect .
From: Hanne Jørgensen (denandenvirkelighed@live.dk)
Sent: Tue 4/06/10 11:41 AM
To: bls926@msn.com
Hello
I will not go into diskusionen whether it is ok to keep the ceremony here in danmark.og therefore I write to you directly about another thing.
You ask whether I know about the case in Sedora - And of course I do det.Og I know it is not something to joke about.
I can tell you that I have led Lapp saunas and sweat lodges in more than 25 år.Og have very close touch with my Mexican teacher champion.
I think the sweat lodge ceremony is an equally old traditision in Lapland as it is in usa and do not believe that natives have a patent on it.
If you look at our www.kan you see we only work against Donati board and that all we had to get into profits, we continue to benefit formål.Vi gave 2000 dollars to Ben Carnes place so they could keep it to dance the sun dance on .
Light and Love: O)
Hello
I will not go into diskusionen whether it is ok to keep the ceremony here in danmark.og therefore I write to you directly about another thing.
You ask whether I know about the case in Sedora - And of course I do det.Og I know it is not something to joke about.
I can tell you that I have led Lapp saunas and sweat lodges in more than 25 år.Og have very close touch with my Mexican teacher champion.
I think the sweat lodge ceremony is an equally old traditision in Lapland as it is in usa and do not believe that natives have a patent on it.
If you look at our www.kan you see we only work against Donati board and that all we had to get into profits, we continue to benefit formål.Vi gave 2000 dollars to Ben Carnes place so they could keep it to dance the sun dance on .
Light and Love: O)
From: Hanne Jørgensen (denandenvirkelighed@live.dk)
Sent: Fri 4/09/10 8:51 AM
To: bls926@msn.com
Character set: Auto Select Learn more
Hello
I would just note that I use google translation, and therefore some misunderstandings in the previous message.
We accept only donasion here and have no prices.
mail has been sent from my email address, and not from the other reality --- and is completely my own opinion.
It is also my mistake in 2000 dollars --- it was 1ooo U.S. D
Frank E Hansen: O)
From: Hanne Jørgensen (denandenvirkelighed@live.dk)
Sent: Tue 4/06/10 11:41 AM
To: bls926@msn.com
You ask whether I know about the case in Sedora - And of course I do det.Og I know it is not something to joke about.
I can tell you that I have led Lapp saunas and sweat lodges in more than 25 år.Og have very close touch with my Mexican teacher champion.
. . .
She also claims that Queztal Tzab is now posting on this thread but is not identifying himself. I had to do a search. QT is mentioned here in this thread as someone who held a ceremony with Bennie Lebeau.
. . .
. . .
Their response:
Hello
We came to know Hector Ybarra last year. He was introduced to us by Quetzal Tzab, who has invited him to Europe. Quetzal is an organizer in the Ingeginous movement Europe.
. . .
Frank Hansen, Hanne Jørgensen, Tom Frank Van Willigen, Rikke Agersted and Jasmin Olsen
. . .
. . .
We want to say that from our experience, both with Hector, and this sight, it would only be right for you to call and know Hector for yourself, ask him about how he came to Europe. He does not work with a computer, and we feel it is unfair that he is not being allowed to speak for himself on this matter.
Frank Hansen, Hanne Jørgensen, Tom Frank Van Willigen, Rikke Agersted and Jasmin Olsen
. . .
Quetzal Tzab is the person who arranged these trips to Europe. That would make it appear that Tzab and Ybarra are friends, or at least have a working relationship.
So, has something happened that would change this? Why would Tzab arrange the trip to Denmark and then post negatively about Ybarra?
yeah, i smell something....something fishy in Denmark....maybe admin can check some IP addresses.
1...for my self I se him ads a human bean whit some visdom, that make me recall that we have our own medicine here.
2. If nobody hear Hector out and meat him on the request to contact him by telephone or maby visit, how serius is this site then?
3. All here on this site otherwise I would se like gossip and very evel towards people, that do have there heart the right place and work from it. If you only get your information sekund hand.
4. All what is in writing here, is to read by every body, it would be not nice to destroy somebodys name,that dont deserve it. I do beleave there is laws asgainst that.
5. Regards from Mizzlilly/ and whit love and light
You educated indian
1. Where did you get the idea that Hector is teching abaut imaginary pre pagan traditions ?
And what makes you think that? I dont se eny writing or dokument eny where on this site where this is a fact.
And I never reseave eny teching abaut that, maby I sleeped in the classroom that day ???
2...it would prove your entension by giving people fair chance on there terms to explane them self .
3. [Long looooong and extremely confused rant about the law]
I would be very carefull and in these matters if it was me invastigating somebody.
4. That make me wonder if there is other things going on among your self.
5. Get it right
6. and this is the last i write here in this tread
7. because i se fighting and behavier that is under your suposed level and inbaressing to it is.
8. Is in my book not very serius or nice behavier, since you dont know me at all.
9. I se a big problem among you
10. the jugdement and good behavier is missing here.
11. I truly hope you will find your path in light and love for all your relations.
« Sent to: Mizzlilly on: Today at 07:17:01 PM »
Mizz Lilly
I'm sorry you feel that way about NAFPS. Believe me, this is not a hateful place. We have a difficult job to do and we're doing it to the best of our ability.
There are many people all over the world who think they can appropriate Native American traditions and spirituality and use them as they wish. This is wrong. Stealing from another culture is never right. Our ancestors sacrificed with their lives and freedom to protect their way of life. You cannot take it; you cannot buy it. For you or anyone else to think they can conduct a Lakota sweat lodge or a Cherokee stomp dance is wrong. To think you can charge money, adds insult to injury. These ceremonies do not belong to you. They never have and they never will, no matter how many teachers you have or how much money you pay. If you find that harsh, so be it. It is what it is.
Yes, we do want information about Hector Ybarra and what he is doing in Europe. He has been invited to join this forum and explain. He chooses not to do that. Kelsie has written to Al, but refuses to permit him to post her e-mails. If they don't want to share their side of things, that's their prerogative. No one here is forcing them. However, the research will continue with or without their input.
It's sad that so many in Europe cannot learn the traditions of their own ancestors and feel the need to steal from the First Nations.
Bonnie
April month was kicked off with a week of work at this place. Many great people have put their effort and energy in this place, so it could be really nice and it has indeed. Thanks to you who came and helped. We had never done it without you.
The photos, taken during the process lies in the picture gallery under “Seen and done.” Here you can get an insight into what happened here on the spot. Look forward to come and experience it.
We have decided that it is everyone’s project to keep the land beautiful and that meens that when you come here, you are free to see if there is anything you can do to keep it.
This month, I have women’s group 2 times. This concludes the first womancircle. New women’s group starts the 12th June. Sign up quickly, if you’re interested. I put all the dates of the course into the calendar.
Saturday 17th April at. 10-17 Mona Lisa comes again with her wonderful power jewelry and tarot cards. Do you want a reading, please let me know quickly.
Saturday the 17th we have the drumming evening at 7 pm. The place is filled with new energy, so it will be really power full. Notify me if you are coming, so I know how many buns I have to bake.
At the end of the month comes our Indian family. We are really looking foreward to this. We will do healings, sweat lodge, and various workshops while they are here. We are so lucky to have them here a whole month, so there can certainly be a lot of exciting things to experience.
Remember that we are working only for donations and so does our Indian family as well.
Hugs and Light
Hanne
Saturday the 15th of May Hector wants to run a Sweat. Come and participate in a sweat run by a great medicinman.
The rules: bring changing clothes (you have to wear clothes in the sweat), towels, and a dish to share afterwards. Please remember it is by donations.
Finally it seems that the summer comes. May has been realy cold and wet, and certainly not the best weather for our activities here.We have had the great pleasure to have Hector, Kelsie and Sunka here in May. It’s been fantastic lovely and instructive for us and many others.Our outdoor kitchen works perfectly, making it much easier to have activities here. The outdoor toilet also acts as it should. The last weekend we also installed an outdoor shower. Now does it all work as it should. Thanks to all the wonderful people who helped us with the hard work.Here in June I start a new women’s group. The dates are on the calendar. Join if you want to work with yourself and find your inner goddess.Saturday 19th June, we celebrate the solstice and have the drum group. We anticipate that we will meet at 3 o’clock and we start the grill. Bring food that can be placed on the grill. After eating, we will drum and sing as usual. We finish as usual with coffee and freshly baked buns. We’d love to have your registration for this event. Remember we have no prices, but happily accept donations.
Do you want to come and give us a hand with the land, you are very welcome. Weeds are growing fast now and we can easily use a few extra hands to help us with that.Currently we are trying to put a program up for the autumn. Do you have any ideas for what should be done here at the place, feel free to let us know.Hugs and LightHanne