Author Topic: "New Native Shamans"  (Read 7737 times)

Offline AlaskaGrl

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"New Native Shamans"
« on: August 08, 2006, 07:19:08 pm »
http://www.woodfish.org/bridge.html


""""When Gray asked the Cherokee shaman to take her on as a fulltime apprentice, he turned her down. She was crushed by this at the time. "He told me to finish my doctorate. He said that I was not meant to be a shaman like him, thatI was supposed to be a bridge between the two cultures. It took me years to appreciate his decision. I realize now that I would have been trying to be someone I wasn't."

Gray is literate; the Cherokee medicine man is not. She realized that she couldn't undo her literate mind to see and respond to reality the way he does.She also knew that his lack of literacy would prevent many Euro-American-educated people from learning from him. Most non-Native Americans would only notice his inability to read and write. They would not see his brilliance or sense his powerful presence as Gray did. For shamanism to reach urban, industrialized America, Gray finally realized, it had to come through people like her, shamans with credentials in both worlds.

This insight and the implications it held for her life did not strike Gray at once. For a number of years she studied shamanism and worked with native practitioners without any thought of practicing as a shaman herself. Not until she received a powerful vision in 1982 did Gray realize that she herself was called to be a spirit healer.""""


(the above quote hits me the wrong way... actually, it makes me want to scream... ~ Lindaa.)


« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 am by AstronomyGal »

Offline AndreasWinsnes

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Re: "New Native Shamans"
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2006, 11:44:39 pm »
Another quote from the article says it all:

Quote
Gray is not the only one who perceives this growing movement. I learn laterthrough a telephone interview that anthropologist/shaman Michael Harner has noticed it also. "Leslie Gray, with her high level of education and her dual work as university instructor and shamanic counselor, may be unique today," remarks the director of the Center for Shamanic Studies in Connecticut and the author of The Way of the Shaman,

Any Native American or decendant of Europeans is either a fraud, an exploiter or just an ignorant "healer" if he or she use the title "shaman".

Gray reminds me of charismatic Christians who try to be hip and cool in order to reach out to the modern world. New Agers have this irritating save-the-world-attitude, a leftover from Christianity probably. Wonder what Gray will do to reach Beverly Hills or Hell's Angels? Bike show POW WOW?




Offline JosephSWM

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Re: "New Native Shamans"
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2006, 03:01:13 pm »
The stuff written there is reminescent of the 'journey' Heywhatever Storm took on his 'path'.

Leaving aside all  the stuff the anthros have written as to how medicine people are chosen in the Cherokee culture, there is actually a  sort of protocol how it is done and I can assure you it has not been written down. This is true of so much of my peoples culture. The yoneg may think our oral tradition is just relegated to children's stories but they are quite wrong.

weheli

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Re: "New Native Shamans"
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2006, 04:31:57 am »
 :) I agree with Joesph, there is much to be said about things not being written down. I suppose that is why they make up so many of these lies about our people.
                                                       Weheli :)

frederica

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Re: "New Native Shamans"
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2006, 04:10:28 pm »
Agreed. I think that is a large part of the problem. They make it up as they go along and the "public" or followers  take the corrupt form as being real.  It' disasterous in the long run. frederica

Offline AlaskaGrl

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Re: "New Native Shamans"
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2006, 06:28:55 pm »
Yes its severe and widespread and all depressing. ? I am a hereditary Witch (not Wiccan) & student of Occult history. ? A research specialist by profession, no degrees, primary interests antiques, collectibles, art, antiquities - astronomy... ?  It ticks me off to see all the blending to form new things by those who feel entitled to participate in the butchery of cultures and ideas under the motto... "if it feels right, do it" ? Old timers here will remember my many rants on this topic from previous yrs... ? heh Reading the above paragraphs in regards to the Medicine Man and her relation to, it appears IMHO she considers herself the savior to the "urban" ? folks based on her level of education and literacy over the lowly (what I read) Medicine Man - which may or may not have been a real person. ? The interview came across to me as condescending..... in order to buoy herself up to others via her education... ? ? The attitude I perceived demeans and belittles and keeps the stereotypes active. ? There's far too many stereotypes out here. ? Because of her standing in the community and the degrees, yes, she will influence the rest of the sheeples who are looking for some form of assistance. ? ?

I can't see an educated person or anyone else for that matter speaking of someone in such a manner and specifically pointing out the illeteracy of the aledged person above all the other things they might have known about them. ? And then using their good fortune to be educated to give themselves a one up on the person. ? Am I missing something? ?  I happen to be Dyslexic and have some trouble writing and with numbers, but I am not pointed out to clients as hey, go see our Dyslexic researcher who can't count money. ? Hope she does not get your consignor number backwards... ?

I do see a trend emerging where more and more Psychologists and Dr's in other health related fields are using methods semingly derived fom Indian culture, however twisted in the end.  Perhaps a chapter or mention of it should also be included in the book Al.  Is this considered another form of dis-respect even though the practicioners, many with huge degrees and fees, claim to help people with their methodology?
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 am by AstronomyGal »

Offline snorks

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Re: "New Native Shamans"
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2006, 11:17:15 am »
On one of the e-mail lists i am on, they are asking for "Cherokee teachers".  A few volunteered with their list of having studied under blah and blah and big blah.  I don't know how to write a rebuttal.

A lot of the people are what Al calls PODIA.  Some claim they are 'lost Indians'.  It is a list ripe for the picking for an abuser.

How do you let these people know they are playing with fire?


Offline educatedindian

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Re: "New Native Shamans"
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2006, 03:49:19 pm »
I'm planning on a chapter on all the exploiters in academia. Sad thing is, there are lots of actual elders working with people in the healthcare field to integrate Native medicine in a respectful non exploitive way with western medicine. Maybe the best example would be Red Road Recovery programs for alcoholics.

I used to use the term I'd always heard, thinblood, until a few thinbloods got very angry and claimed it was "prejudiced." Anyone have any better suggestions?

Posting Dr. Richard Allen's warning might be a good start when you run into naive PODIAs. Or how about those of distant ancestry in here describe what worked best to help them to avoid the frauds? We could have it as a warning to be easily linked to. Something like "For Those Who Just Discovered They Have Indian ancestry: A Plea to Be Careful." Maybe we need a new thread for this.

Offline shoshone1

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Re: "New Native Shamans"
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2008, 12:40:37 am »
Makes you wanna say Hmmmm

Offline taraverti

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Re: "New Native Shamans"
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2008, 08:24:10 pm »
Old thread but it's moved me to write.

The thing that popped out at me about the initial post was, the arrogance of it.

Literate in whose language? Is this woman literate in Cherokee?  She's the illiterate one when it comes to studying anything Cherokee! Pissed me off.

In terms of being a podia, I think what innoculated me against being conned was being exposed as a small child to real Indian cousins and Aunts and Uncles and grandfather and being raised and taught by my mother what I feel/know about Indians and doing my own research at a very young age way before the term "New Age" even existed. When the pretendians started showing up, they did not "feel" right to me and I made the choice not to engage with them. I guess I am blessed that my Indian ancestors are not so far removed as some, even as little as I do know.  I can see how someone who was totally cut off with no knowledge and seeking some meaning would be ripe for the taking.

Nona

Offline shoshone1

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Re: "New Native Shamans"
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2008, 01:11:23 am »
I have to agree with everyone here ,Damn why do they do such things ,is way beyond me