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General => Frauds => Topic started by: Prairie Fairy on August 22, 2008, 11:51:53 am

Title: Ishi "Fire Cloud" Crosby & Sarah "Eagle Song" Crosby-van der Zee
Post by: Prairie Fairy on August 22, 2008, 11:51:53 am
These people are kind of friends of mine. Ishi is Cree who was adopted out at birth to a white family in Liverpool, England. He and a guy named Taco Blom have a Permaculture Gardening school together and I volunteer at the garden. They do Inipis. Sarah was born in Indonesia which was a former Dutch colony. She's a white dutch woman.

I participated in some of their Inipis but I have come to understand that non Lakota people have been expressly asked to not do Inipis. I always try to talk to them about radical politics but they seem to think it's all a bunch of weakness and they always avoid it.
Title: Re: Ishi "Fire Cloud" Crosby & Sarah "Eagle Song" Crosby-van der Zee
Post by: Prairie Fairy on August 22, 2008, 12:13:31 pm
They are members of the same "Susquehannock tribe" as Waynonaha Two Worlds. They were trained by Archie Lame Deer. I tend to avoid "pay to pray" situations with them but I just found an old flyer from some years ago when they were definitely charging money for learning the "Red Road" along with some Jungian interpretations of the King Arthur story.
Title: Re: Ishi "Fire Cloud" Crosby & Sarah "Eagle Song" Crosby-van der Zee
Post by: earthw7 on August 22, 2008, 10:14:52 pm
They have no right to do this
Title: Re: Ishi "Fire Cloud" Crosby & Sarah "Eagle Song" Crosby-van der Zee
Post by: Prairie Fairy on August 23, 2008, 03:16:37 pm
I have had a bad feeling about it.

I did e-mail Ishi talking about Arvol Looking Horse's request. Still haven't got an answer. I may end up still in contact with them via the garden. What other actions could I take? They are both self defensive persons who do not like getting into critical discussions, but do enjoy talking about others behind their backs. I'm at a loss. I hate to think of quitting the garden.
Title: Re: Ishi "Fire Cloud" Crosby & Sarah "Eagle Song" Crosby-van der Zee
Post by: Prairie Fairy on August 23, 2008, 03:26:12 pm
Here is a link for Ishi (David Ian)'s partner, Taco Blom. I did not highlight Taco in my first post because he is quiet and hardworking, and does not womanize as Ishi does. However, as you will see, he is also conducting Inipis and selling drums. He is an olive skinned Dutch man, I think he has some ancestry from Spain.

http://www.tonanzi.nl/

Title: Re: Ishi "Fire Cloud" Crosby & Sarah "Eagle Song" Crosby-van der Zee
Post by: Prairie Fairy on August 23, 2008, 05:41:39 pm
Link to the About Us page of the Permacultuur School Nederland:

http://www.permacultuur.eu/wiezijnwij/wiezijnwij.htm

It's confusing because Permaculture gardening is a good cause.
Title: Re: Ishi "Fire Cloud" Crosby & Sarah "Eagle Song" Crosby-van der Zee
Post by: Defend the Sacred on August 24, 2008, 05:43:08 am
Here is a link for Ishi (David Ian)'s partner, Taco Blom. I did not highlight Taco in my first post because he is quiet and hardworking, and does not womanize as Ishi does. However, as you will see, he is also conducting Inipis and selling drums. He is an olive skinned Dutch man, I think he has some ancestry from Spain.  http://www.tonanzi.nl/

Uh, maybe this is a culture/language gap but... he calls himself "Taco"?

Anyway.

We see here: http://www.tonanzi.nl/vision.html
Quote
Vision Quest
...
De kosten zijn € 450

and here:
Quote
Zweethutceremonies

So, they're selling "Vision Quests". They even show us the nice country house where the "vision quest" takes place. *cough cough* Doesn't say how much they charge for the sweats. You know that house looks familiar... I think we've seen it in ads for other shameons.

Oh, fabulous, they host an "indianenweek" http://www.tonanzi.nl/vuurenaarde.html

Here they are combining "firewalking" with fake Inipi: http://www.tonanzi.nl/vuurtraining.html

Seems pretty clear: Shameons selling fake Plains NDN ceremonies. Move to frauds.

ETA: More from the site where they hold the retreats: http://www.centrelothlorien.com/

vanaf de heuvel met Tipi

(http://www.centrelothlorien.com/foto/album004.jpg)

http://www.centrelothlorien.com/toelichting2008.html#vision
Quote
Vision Quest
26 april tot 3 mei

Inhoud
Vision quest betekent letterlijk "zoektocht voor je visioen". Het is een ritueel dat in heel veel varianten in heel erg veel culturen voorkomt. Je laat in feite even alles wat je bezighoudt in het leven los en zoekt de verbinding met de wezenlijke weg van je ziel.
Vier dagen en vier nachten verblijf je alleen op een plek in de natuur met alleen Water; geen voedsel, geen koffie, geen alcohol , geen afleiding. Zo wordt je steeds helderder om de antwoorden op je vragen te vinden.

We helpen je om goed voorbereid aan jouw quest te beginnen en terwijl je alleen bent steunen we je op afstand. Je belangrijkste bondgenoot is de Natuur zelf. Zij zal je dragen en helpen de antwoorden te vinden op jouw vragen.

Wij raden je af een Vision Quest te doen als je in een labiele periode van je leven bent of als je momenteel psychotherapeutische hulp krijgt om goed te funktioneren.

AANMELDEN UITERLIJK 1 APRIL!!!

Cursusleiding
Taco en Carolyne Blom- Reyneveld
Meer informatie: www.Tonanzi.nl, 0570 601155, of 0615058755, ikbenik@Tonanzi.nl

Prijs
De kosten zijn € 450,- Dit is Inclusief verblijf in tenten (tijdens de voorbereiding en na terugkeer).
Voor een meerprijs is verblijf in een kamer mogelijk. Zie VAKANTIEVERBLIJF.

http://www.centrelothlorien.com/toelichting2008.html#indiaan
Quote
Indianenjeugdweek
21 tot 25 juli

Inhoud
Tipi's bouwen, indianenverhalen beleven, overleven in de natuur, kortom ervaren hoe de indianen leefden en vooral hoe zij omgingen met de natuur.
De activiteiten worden georganiseerd op het terrein van Lothlorien en in de omliggende bossen en uitgestrekte natuur. Activiteiten worden altijd aangepast aan de leeftijd van de deelnemers en zijn actief, uitdagend, creatief en vooral leuk.

Begeleiding
Richard Slager – activiteitenorganisator en -begeleider op Lothlorien – geeft al een aantal jaar invulling aan jeugd en kinderactiviteiten in binnen en buitenland.
Fredy Wamelink, brengt vanuit jarenlange ervaring in het onderwijs , theater en jeugdactiviteiten haar visie en ervaring over op de deelnemers.

Prijs
Variërend per activiteit: € 7,50 tot € 25,00
Hele week, 10 dagdelen: € 85,00
Bij deelname van meerdere kinderen uit een gezin aan de hele week hanteren wij de volgende kortingen
Tweede kind: 25% korting
Vanaf derde kind: 50% korting
Title: Re: Ishi "Fire Cloud" Crosby & Sarah "Eagle Song" Crosby-van der Zee
Post by: Prairie Fairy on August 24, 2008, 08:57:54 pm


Uh, maybe this is a culture/language gap but... he calls himself "Taco"?




[/quote]

Struck me funny too. Gave him his privacy about it.


I guess there was quite a lot about these folks I did not want to see.

Passing stereotypes on to the children. Screwed up stuff.


Here's a link to the School voor Sjamanisme where they all met, and where Taco met his wife. I think there are some bigger fish there.

http://www.schoolvoorsjamanisme.nl/engels/home.html

http://www.schoolvoorsjamanisme.nl/engels/teachers.html

Ishi Crosby (1954) His work and passion is “earth healing???, which he applies by working spiritually, ecologically, and socially at the same time. He gives trainings about the strength of the 12 archetypes of the King Arthur legend and about the concept of the spiritual warrior. The trainings he does together with Sarah Eagle Song Crosby- v/d Zee. He gives the trainings together with Sarah Crosby-van der Zee
Information: 0570-633628, email: greenlife87@hotmail.com

Sarah Crosby-van der Zee (1950) After a youth in which I was fed with fairy tales, stories, music and nature, I have arrived at a new phase now, after a fascinating journey through adulthood which gave me two beautiful sons and four grandchildren and my partner for life, Ishi. Now, the most important thing for me is meeting: really seeing one another from heart to heart. The joy of recognition, applying my energies to the World and Mother Earth by means of massage and sound, and networking with all forms of positive change. I am looking forward to meet you!
Information: 0570-633628, email: greenlife87@hotmail.com

Taco Blom-Reyneveld (1962) is a gardener, tree caretaker, and co-founder of the Permacultuurschool Nederland. (Permacultuur is cooperation with Nature in a healthy and efficient way). He is an ex-student of the School voor Sjamanisme and followed several other courses and trainings. Together with his wife, Carolyne, he inspires ‘Tonanzi??? with sweat lodge ceremonies, drum building and other shamanistic activities. His power lies in Simplicity, Humour, Silence and Deepening.
Information: 06-15058755, web site: www.Tonanzi.nl
Title: Re: Ishi "Fire Cloud" Crosby & Sarah "Eagle Song" Crosby-van der Zee
Post by: Kevin on September 02, 2008, 12:26:38 pm
"His power lies in Simplicity, Humour, Silence and Deepening."
ooooh, deepening - bring that across the big water, it would go so good with buckskin made in Hong Kong and red chicken feathers!
Title: Re: Ishi "Fire Cloud" Crosby & Sarah "Eagle Song" Crosby-van der Zee
Post by: chiefytiger on September 06, 2008, 11:45:12 am
Yeah once i saw that he was taught by the late Archie Firelame deer,I knew that he was not NDN. I have been to the Nederlands before and have been invited to some sweat ceremonys ,and meet quite a few ppls that was directed by AFL. As for TAco doing sweats and other NDN ceremonies .Im sorry to say that he doesnt have that right and should be asked ,As for you P.Fire all I can say is if you like to volunteer w/the garden continue to do so but dont participate in the NDN ceremonys , protect yourself. I would like to sned him a message thru email ,do you have it , wopila for speaking up ....
Chiefytiger
Title: Re: Ishi "Fire Cloud" Crosby & Sarah "Eagle Song" Crosby-van der Zee
Post by: Prairie Fairy on September 06, 2008, 01:33:06 pm
Hey CT. Thanks for the advice. Here is the page for "contact" from Taco's website. Ishi & Sarah's email is listed above.

http://www.tonanzi.nl/contact.php

BTW, business has been dwindling for Ishi & Sarah in the past year. Sarah was complaining to me about it about a half a year ago and had mentioned that a psychic had told her there was something wrong going on. At that point I already had enough sense to be able to say that if you are doing a spiritual practice for people  that is not working it is time to stop and reevaluate. She was like "But we need money!" Hello... Wrong attitude anybody? if you need money you go work at the frikkin Taco Bell, dig ditches, anything but what she was proposing. A lot of people think they are too good for honest labor. But that was just one of the things I have said to her that seemed to slide right off as if it had never been said. Just like, er, plastic. Be careful, I don't think she has much of a conscience. Her & Ishi are both pretty expert at hearing an argument and then in a nasty sort of tattletale spirit bringing up another issue, (usually about somebody else's flaws) so they won't have to deal with what you have said. Not the fair debating tactics my highschool English teacher once discussed.

I have been to two Inipis with Taco but I do not know him well as he tends not to reveal much about himself. I felt that he was a good man who held himself to certain standards. But what he does is obviously wrong. It is possible that he will be receptive to well-founded criticism, if he is not too distracted by the investments he has made in his way of doing things. On the other hand he has a more developed and systematic business. Ishi and Sarah both seem to sincerely believe in their illusions, even to the detriment of their business, although Sarah's obviously channeling some ruthless Dutch colonial ancestor the way she approaches money sometimes. Ishi seems reluctant to face the fact that he is economically dependent on exploitation and seems to depend on Sarah to make the really gory ethical calls.

As you may guess Ishi's persona comes off as somewhat fictional. I'm a bit like that myself and am used to dealing with that so it did not ring off any alarm bells for me. I knew pretty much at the beginning of our aquaintance that he was having affairs and calling it polyamory, because I have been interested in polyamory myself and was fully aware that someone who has affairs is not the same thing no matter what they call it. He is more into schmoozing people and entering an idealistic dream world also with people like me, but you will reach a point with him where he is not really interested in discussing making these dreams a reality, and is only interested in continuing his own addictive cycles of sex, ego and illusion.

PF
Title: Re: Ishi "Fire Cloud" Crosby & Sarah "Eagle Song" Crosby-van der Zee
Post by: Barnaby_McEwan on September 07, 2008, 06:30:50 pm
Her & Ishi are both pretty expert at hearing an argument and then in a nasty sort of tattletale spirit bringing up another issue, (usually about somebody else's flaws) so they won't have to deal with what you have said. Not the fair debating tactics my highschool English teacher once discussed.

I gather alcoholics do the same thing. If you get angry when they get drunk, the argument may well turn from one about how they shouldn't be drunk, into one about why you shouldn't be angry with them.
Title: Re: Ishi "Fire Cloud" Crosby & Sarah "Eagle Song" Crosby-van der Zee
Post by: Defend the Sacred on September 07, 2008, 06:49:09 pm
I gather alcoholics do the same thing. If you get angry when they get drunk, the argument may well turn from one about how they shouldn't be drunk, into one about why you shouldn't be angry with them.

Or about how it's your fault they drink. Or your fault they cheat. Or your fault they hit you.
Title: Re: Ishi "Fire Cloud" Crosby & Sarah "Eagle Song" Crosby-van der Zee
Post by: chiefytiger on September 08, 2008, 12:56:16 pm
Hau! P.Fairy wopila for hearing my advise ,Im sure that when you talked of what you said was said to ears that was closed .But again just be careful and keep your distance of what your chante tells you. One must be careful at all times . But when one speaks of bringing sex and affairs into spiritalty ---- RUN AWAY real fast and far . But Im sure your journey will have alot of twists and turns .... Be safe an well Kola
ChieftyT
Title: Re: Ishi "Fire Cloud" Crosby & Sarah "Eagle Song" Crosby-van der Zee
Post by: Litsehimmel on June 22, 2014, 11:17:14 pm
Ishi "Fire Cloud" Crosby is now active in the Dutch province of Fryslân. Supposedly 'chief of the Pipe Society of the (European?) Susquehannock Tribe' he works with a woman named Margriet Wolf who calls herself Margriet "Many Fires White Rainbow Wolf". The 'wolf' bit actually is her real surname I think. She is a member of the Susquahannock Tribe of Florida. She is a 'body-oriented psychotherapist, emotional body-oriented trauma therapist, masseur, healer and guide who specializes in the (therapeutic) guidance of adults and children with traumas who need extra help'. Her target group includes "children or adults with autism related disorders, delusions, mental handicaps, ADHD, high sensitivity or something similar."

Her website is manyfires.nl and she also appears on the site http://susquehannock.net/societys_in_europe/dutch/wolf.htm Apparently she is the chief of the Dutch 'Wolf Society''Wolf Society' which promotes "spiritual growth according to Indian or druidic tradition". On June 26th she will welcome Robin Youngblood, another acquaintance of this site I think. Robin will give personal readings and healings.
Margriet Wolf is also a water pourer during sweat lodge ceremonies and urges people with "phobias, depression, trauma, AIDS, lung disorders, etc" to participate in the ceremony. She does advice against participation by people who either have a pacemaker or suffer from "certain cardiac disorders or forms of breathlesness and contagious diseases" but states that she is "a trauma expert" and she will be able to advice people whether or not they can participate.
She also teaches the Wolf Clan Teachings by Grandmother Twylah Nitsch. During the course everybody will creates their own little medicine wheel by using 'indian beads'. Participants 12 years and older. Margriet's

Another seemingly important member of this gang is Jolanda "Sun Crow" (chief of the Crow SOciety http://www.crowsociety.com/crows.html) who says she was initiated by 'black shamans' in Mongolia after the spirit of a 13th or 14th century wise woman possessed her. Her 'tribe members' are all shamans or healers or mediums and all but one of them are Dutch, the exception being one Belgian. They're also all members of the European Susquahannock tribe.

Finally, about the seemingly humorous name of Taco: it's the Latinized (and standard Dutch) form of the Frisian name Taeke. Pretty common over here ;-)  If you want more info or a translation, I'll try to give it if I can. These people - or at least Margriet Wolf - are less than 30 minutes away from here.

Litsehimmel
Title: Re: Ishi "Fire Cloud" Crosby & Sarah "Eagle Song" Crosby-van der Zee
Post by: educatedindian on June 23, 2014, 01:37:09 pm
Ishi "Fire Cloud" Crosby is now active in the Dutch province of Fryslân. Supposedly 'chief of the Pipe Society of the (European?) Susquehannock Tribe' he works with a woman named Margriet Wolf who calls herself Margriet "Many Fires White Rainbow Wolf". The 'wolf' bit actually is her real surname I think. She is a member of the Susquahannock Tribe of Florida. She is a 'body-oriented psychotherapist, emotional body-oriented trauma therapist, masseur, healer and guide who specializes in the (therapeutic) guidance of adults and children with traumas who need extra help'. Her target group includes "children or adults with autism related disorders, delusions, mental handicaps, ADHD, high sensitivity or something similar."

Her website is manyfires.nl and she also appears on the site http://susquehannock.net/societys_in_europe/dutch/wolf.htm Apparently she is the chief of the Dutch 'Wolf Society''Wolf Society' which promotes "spiritual growth according to Indian or druidic tradition". On June 26th she will welcome Robin Youngblood, another acquaintance of this site I think. Robin will give personal readings and healings.
Margriet Wolf is also a water pourer during sweat lodge ceremonies and urges people with "phobias, depression, trauma, AIDS, lung disorders, etc" to participate in the ceremony. She does advice against participation by people who either have a pacemaker or suffer from "certain cardiac disorders or forms of breathlesness and contagious diseases" but states that she is "a trauma expert" and she will be able to advice people whether or not they can participate.
She also teaches the Wolf Clan Teachings by Grandmother Twylah Nitsch. During the course everybody will creates their own little medicine wheel by using 'indian beads'. Participants 12 years and older. Margriet's

Another seemingly important member of this gang is Jolanda "Sun Crow" (chief of the Crow SOciety http://www.crowsociety.com/crows.html) who says she was initiated by 'black shamans' in Mongolia after the spirit of a 13th or 14th century wise woman possessed her. Her 'tribe members' are all shamans or healers or mediums and all but one of them are Dutch, the exception being one Belgian. They're also all members of the European Susquahannock tribe.

Litsehimmel

The Susquehannocks are imposters. That includes in America since they were wiped out centuries ago. Nitsche was an exploiter, the same as Youngblood still is.

Wolf is incredibly reckless. She is endangering the lives of those in her sweats even more than most frauds. Almost every one of those types of ill people should NOT be at a sweat. Traumatized people may wind up reliving the traumas and have psychotic episodes.

And if she realizes infected people should not be at a sweat? Who is more vulnerable to infection than someone with AIDS? There's also no reason young children should be at a sweat.

Looking at the photos of the so called Crow Society, they all appear like adults who are playing dress up Halloween. They even break into big grins at their play acting.

And their names? Humming Whale? ::) Many Fires White Rainbow Wolf? :D :D Not content with one twinkie name, she has to combine three.

No doubt these two will be joined by their fellow tribe members Gargling Underwater and Hears Many Voices A Spectrum With Only One Color Hyena.
Title: Re: Ishi "Fire Cloud" Crosby & Sarah "Eagle Song" Crosby-van der Zee
Post by: Sturmboe on June 23, 2014, 06:00:44 pm
Wolf Society http://manyfires.nl/index.php?id=5
Is there any evidence she got a right to threat people with traumatic stress disorder or other mental issues? What is her profession? A profession with a medical basics?

I don´t know the netherlands rights about psychotherapeutic treatments. It could be that she is only allowed to treat those people with traumatic stress just by a decree of a doctor, psychotherapist or psychologist. People with other medical professisons can also learn some psychological treatments, but it doesn´t mean that they can automatically use this on their own decision, if they got not the basic education.

Maybe she got no education and it is participation at one's own risk and this woman won´t be responsible for the results.



[/quote]
Wolf is incredibly reckless. She is endangering the lives of those in her sweats even more than most frauds. Almost every one of those types of ill people should NOT be at a sweat. Traumatized people may wind up reliving the traumas and have psychotic episodes.
[/quote]

This would be a worse result. There is another problem. Those who work with people with PTSD and other forms of traumatic stress got a task to prepare a prooved safty place for a person with PTSD, in this way the ill person wants and need it, during the therapy. And the ill person needs to get the controll over this situation. Can be a place really safety if an ill person even don´t know what a sweat lodge is? This situation in the past, from which raised a traumatic issue, this was also a situation and a place unsafty. Can this ill person stop the situation and finish it, if it is too much? If he can offer the signals to other....
Can Wolf be sure she recognizes all the signs? I don´t know how, in the darkness, the heat, the sounds from the fire and singing, this all can disguise the signals of the person, who showes them but did not recognized it on his own, maybe he  get in freeze or in fight or flight modus. This reaction can be dangerous for all participations. Can Wolf change something in the situation quickly to turn away a dangerous situation? I cannot imagine.

On the other side I heard about sweat lodges lead by Natives for Natives with PTSD. What kind of knowledge and tradition they got to heal people with PTSD I don´t know. Every culture has their own traditional ways to treat, they belong to their way.

Title: Re: Ishi "Fire Cloud" Crosby & Sarah "Eagle Song" Crosby-van der Zee
Post by: Litsehimmel on June 24, 2014, 11:47:24 pm
Wolf is incredibly reckless. She is endangering the lives of those in her sweats even more than most frauds. Almost every one of those types of ill people should NOT be at a sweat. Traumatized people may wind up reliving the traumas and have psychotic episodes.

Thank you for explaining that. Should she be made aware of this? Although I seriously doubt that she will stop her activities and cut herself off from this source of income  :-\


LH
Title: Re: Ishi "Fire Cloud" Crosby & Sarah "Eagle Song" Crosby-van der Zee
Post by: Litsehimmel on June 25, 2014, 12:13:07 am
Wolf Society http://manyfires.nl/index.php?id=5
Is there any evidence she got a right to threat people with traumatic stress disorder or other mental issues? What is her profession? A profession with a medical basics?

She has several 'official' registrations, like a so-called AGB-code (Algemeen Gegevens Beheer = General Data Management) which basically enables people to have costs reimbursed by their health insurance; a NVPIT-code (Nederlandse Vereniging voor Postural Integration Therapeuten = Dutch Society for Postural Integration Therapy), which means she is a registered member of this society; and she is a "Certified Somatic Experiencing Practitioner", which means she is certified to help people deal with and overcome Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and other traumatic experiences. I was actually referred to her due to problems with our youngest (step-)son but had the willies scared out of me when I started to check her out and saw all this " Somewhere Over The Rainbow" stuff.

The Somatic Experiencing thing was developed by one Dr. Peter Levine. The Dutch branch facilitates schooling for health practitioners as well as teachers and other people who deal with traumatized individuals. It's supposedly a 3-year course. The therapy itself works opposite to the general therapy of talking about the traumatic experience. Instead it focuses on the 'physical aspect and the self healing ability of the body'. So it says in the Dutch brochure.

Quote
Maybe she got no education and it is participation at one's own risk and this woman won´t be responsible for the results.

Basically everything in The Netherlands as far as health is concerned is at one's own risk; medical culpability and being able to sue somebody is almost impossible here.

Quote
There is another problem. [...] Can Wolf be sure she recognizes all the signs? Can Wolf change something in the situation quickly to turn away a dangerous situation? I cannot imagine.

I'm sure she really thinks she can. She appears to be very sure of herself, even offering these forms of therapy and sweats to children. You can be sure though that our son will not be treated by her.

Quote
On the other side I heard about sweat lodges lead by Natives for Natives with PTSD. What kind of knowledge and tradition they got to heal people with PTSD I don´t know. Every culture has their own traditional ways to treat, they belong to their way.

Hazarding a guess, maybe within one's own culture it's easier to find a (common) reference point from which to work towards healing. All I know is that, if our autistic 14-year old (who does suffer from PTSD) were stuck into a dark sweat lodge and subjected to this form of therapy, he would go apeshit! And even if it was given by a native person he would freak, simply because he does not know about these things.

All in all I have to agree that this is potentially very dangerous, and I wonder if anybody has ever complained about her practices or has even suffered the worst for it. I will look into that.

LH
Title: Re: Ishi "Fire Cloud" Crosby & Sarah "Eagle Song" Crosby-van der Zee
Post by: Litsehimmel on June 25, 2014, 01:28:10 am
There's definitely dirt to be found on this Margriet Wolf person. First of all she is a known associate of Waynonaha Two Worlds who has her own thread on this forum (2006). Here's a link to Margriet organizing things for Waynonaha in 2003 http://marjahoefsmit.tripod.com/gast/lezing/waynonaha.htm

But even more dangerous, she has worked as a counselor for a so-called 'reintegration company' called Artemis. (http://nl.linkedin.com/pub/margriet-wolf/32/877/78a) And that company is - or at least was - a very dangerous institution. Here's (part of) a scathing newspaper article on this company from 2004. (translated from source http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2844/Archief/archief/article/detail/706789/2004/03/01/Artemis-helpt-vrouwen-door-woedefase-heen.dhtml)

Quote
Artemis is said to venture into the field of public mental health without any form of licensing, and at the detriment of women with severe psychological problems.

Artemis is a sect.

The black book circulating on internet since the past few months tears the company to shreds. Artemis and its seven national subsidiaries which annually try to help approx. 220 women with severe psychological problems find a job, is called 'dangerous' and 'unsafe'.

Director-owner Jeannette Poorter does not seem to be impressed by the criticism. Her company has fallen prey to a defamation campaign, is her opinion. "By women who have gotten stuck in the agner phase. Such a shame."

She does not even try to refute the reproach that Artemis is a sect. "You might consider it to be a compliment. It indicates that you have vision. The only difference is that I allow you to leave." The resistance is even understandable according to Poorter. " Artemis is an experiment. All new things generate resistance."

The black book tells the poignant experiences that 28 women had with the company. Artemis, which exclusively deals with women and in doing so has an average annual income of 800,000 euro, mostly government funded, is said to push its clients even further down into depression. 

"Women who have just been released from a closed insititution are put to work within Artemis for 24 hours per week, without any form of coaching" says M.H. from G. who took the initiative for the internet black book. "I don't know of any woman who has found a paid job outside of Artemis."

H. herself worked at Artemis for 1,5 years. She arrived with a burn-out and made it to general manager of all seven centers. "Until my conscious kicked in" she says. I thought I could change the company policy, but to no avail."

Artemis coaches her clients according to the 'female freemason principle' says owner Jeannette Poorter. The women arrive as 'spinsters'. unaware of themselves and their history. Through the course 'offering to invest' in which the women are confronted with their past, and many of them have experienced sexual abuse, they arrive in the phase of 'weaver'. A quiet phase, according to Poorter.

In this phase women at Artemis receive 'the turn-around', an assesment of 11 half-days during which they're advised to start working on 'what their soul wants'. "In fifteen years society will be taken over by the right brain, the feminine consciousness" states Poorter. "During 'the Turn-around' I re-educate women into that new consciousness."

After the clients have completed the Turn-around, they will have moved past the anger phase and can enter the phase of 'designer' according to Poorter. "Designers create their own lives" she explains. "It's the entrepeneur's phase, you do not have to set up your live as others would have you do." Once women realize this, they are free and can handle anything, is the underlying idea.

Total cost of the process: 13,000 euro plus 750 euro for the Turn-around.

(Did not translate the rest of the article;emphasis added by me)

Jeannette Poorter was found guilty of embezzlement of government money by a court of law in 2007 but emigrated to Equador before sentence could be carried out. She briefly returned in 2009 but quickly left again and is still living there. Want to hear something scary? She teaches courses to native South American indians! One can only guess at what crap she tries to push into their minds!

Here's her FB https://www.facebook.com/jeannette.poorter.3

And Margriet Wolf is still so proud of her involvement with this sect that she lists it on her career background. Definitely somebody to be very weary of.

LH


Title: Re: Ishi "Fire Cloud" Crosby & Sarah "Eagle Song" Crosby-van der Zee
Post by: Sturmboe on June 27, 2014, 04:58:11 pm
 She has several 'official' registrations, like a so-called AGB-code (Algemeen Gegevens Beheer = General Data Management) which basically enables people to have costs reimbursed by their health insurance; a NVPIT-code (Nederlandse Vereniging voor Postural Integration Therapeuten = Dutch Society for Postural Integration Therapy), which means she is a registered member of this society; and she is a "Certified Somatic Experiencing Practitioner", which means she is certified to help people deal with and overcome Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and other traumatic experiences. I was actually referred to her due to problems with our youngest (step-)son but had the willies scared out of me when I started to check her out and saw all this " Somewhere Over The Rainbow" stuff.

The Somatic Experiencing thing was developed by one Dr. Peter Levine. The Dutch branch facilitates schooling for health practitioners as well as teachers and other people who deal with traumatized individuals. It's supposedly a 3-year course. The therapy itself works opposite to the general therapy of talking about the traumatic experience. Instead it focuses on the 'physical aspect and the self healing ability of the body'. So it says in the Dutch brochure.[/quote]


        Well, you can work on the physical way to help people with PTSD. There are a lot of different treatments for those people, physical is one way ...arts, sports, etc., but never the only way. And all therapists need conection with the psychotherapiest or psychologist. You can help with physical therapies that people with PTSD can get a connection to themselves (this could be a way), but you can also go too far and the patient will decompensate, maybe get flashbacks and intrusions. To work in a physical way with this patients is not easy.
It could be someone get a lot of education to treat these ill people, but does it mean he can decide on his own what to do with them? I am not sure. In Germany there are different education for non - psychotherapists, you can use these therapies but only with the approval of the psychothrapist.
Wolf got an education in EMDR, this is a therapy with good results. But she can learn it without being a psychotherapist or psychologist with special education in psychotraumatology? I wonder if this is possible in some countries.


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There is another problem. [...] Can Wolf be sure she recognizes all the signs? Can Wolf change something in the situation quickly to turn away a dangerous situation? I cannot imagine.

[/quote]I'm sure she really thinks she can. She appears to be very sure of herself, even offering these forms of therapy and sweats to children. You can be sure though that our son will not be treated by her.
[/quote]


        This would be a bullshit, big bullshit because you can never be sure for 100% if you recognize all the signs or not. And during a therapy you neesd all your senses and must be able to change the treat, within in a short time.
Title: Re: Ishi "Fire Cloud" Crosby & Sarah "Eagle Song" Crosby-van der Zee
Post by: Litsehimmel on June 29, 2014, 12:04:24 pm
[...]There are a lot of different treatments for those people, physical is one way ...arts, sports, etc., but never the only way. And all therapists need conection with the psychotherapiest or psychologist.[...]

Sounds pretty logical, making sure medical expertise is guaranteed. However, I don't think that's the case here.

Quote
Wolf got an education in EMDR, this is a therapy with good results. But she can learn it without being a psychotherapist or psychologist with special education in psychotraumatology? I wonder if this is possible in some countries.

I checked the registration list of the officialDutch EMDR site, and she is not registered there. This means that she also isn't in the BIG-register (https://www.bigregister.nl/en/), the national list of registered and accredited health care workers and therapists. According to her site (http://manyfires.nl/index.php?id=19) she followed an EMDR-course with the BIVT, Bijscholing Instituut voor Therapeuten (Institute for Additional Scholing for Therapists), which has its own register of "Co-operative Dutch EMDR therapists". She is, however, not officially accredited.

Quote
This would be a bullshit, big bullshit because you can never be sure for 100% if you recognize all the signs or not. And during a therapy you neesd all your senses and must be able to change the treat, within in a short time.

The fact that she did not follow an officially recognized study, at least not in as far as being officially registered, definitely implies that one needs to be very careful if opting to use her as a therapist. I, for one, won't gamble our son's health on her 'knowledge' .
Title: Re: Ishi "Fire Cloud" Crosby & Sarah "Eagle Song" Crosby-van der Zee
Post by: Sturmboe on June 29, 2014, 03:36:20 pm
[...]There are a lot of different treatments for those people, physical is one way ...arts, sports, etc., but never the only way. And all therapists need conection with the psychotherapiest or psychologist.[...]

Sounds pretty logical, making sure medical expertise is guaranteed. However, I don't think that's the case here.

The case is that therapists better should know in which way a psychologist / psychotherapist works with his patient, so that the therapist does not wotk against the psychotherapie. If a psychologist decide to stabilize his patient it would be not ok to solve physical blocades completely, not with massage, osteopathie, manual therapies.
Therapist got to know about psychological practice to be sensible for alarmringing caued by a reaction of the patient.
If the therapist, no matter in which special field / profession he works, it can be that he works contrary to the psychologist - and the psychologist wonders himself, why his works does not run, the patient is not able to follow the psychotherapy.

Almost every one of those types of ill people should NOT be at a sweat. Traumatized people may wind up reliving the traumas and have psychotic episodes.
[/quote]

Fact is that everything can trigger and reliving intrusions and flashbacks, it could be a color, a smell, a gesture, a word, a reaction, a position, alone or in combination, very different from patient to patient. If a patient lose his control about a sitiuationit  can leave him in a helpless position, this also can happen if the patient cannot keep observing the therapist ...
And all this does not mean the patient recognizes this on his own .... or if he recognizes it, that he is able to change the situation. In this case the therapist must react, immediatly and cautiously. Whatever happened you better contact the psychologist or psychotherapist and tell about it. He decides at least how to go on in the therapy of other professions.

If Margriet Wolf is not a medical doctor, not a psychologist or psychotherapist, if she got no medical education, than she got lacks of basic knowledge of medicine, psychology, neuroanatomy and neuropsychology. She would translate the medicine matter with her own point of view - and this can lead to false results.

M. Wolf teaches on her own, ... not only workshops as it seems but her own way other therapists, who "are able to heal" people with mental issues.


It should be in general word wide, if you want to make an medical or psychological advanced training you should present at first your diploma or certification of your profession, then the institute decides, if youcan get the permit to graduate the advanced training or not.
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