NAFPS Forum

General => Frauds => Topic started by: educatedindian on September 08, 2014, 03:58:44 am

Title: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: educatedindian on September 08, 2014, 03:58:44 am
Got a request about them. This is one of the ONAC groups associated with fraud James Mooney. They also claim to be yet more Chickamaugas, supposed hidden Cherokees. So far I haven't seen any ties to other supposed Cherokee or Chickamauga groups, including a group we have in a thread called the Thunderbolt Cherokee.

Leader is Michael Harding AKA Moonwolf, a country musician whose also written some of these.
http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/thunderbolttsikamagination

Harding's page lists the TC/T leaders much more than their group's page.
http://michaelhardingentertainment.weebly.com/thunderbolt-tsikamagi-nation.html
PRINCIPAL CHIEF DANCING BUFFALO/BILLY D. MILLER
Chief Michael Moon Wolf Harding
HEAD MOTHER JOLI WILLOW WIND BLAND
THE LATE VICE CHIEF PEACEFUL EAGLE/KERMIT MANIS

The request mentioned Jacquie Trump as part of them. Trump shows up in the thread on fake Chickamaugas and their failed march on Washington.

The ONAC have split off. The request mentioned it got violent, with the original group accusing the second of setting fire to a leader's home. Here's the ONAC version of the split.

---------
http://www.firstnationchickamauga.org/council.htm
Head Mother - Jacquie Good Spirit Woman [Trump]
First Chief / Head Man - Dennis Black Feathers
Second Chief TBA
Third Chief / Head Man - George [Trump AKA] Stands Strong Warrior
Medicine Chief - Chris Standing Black Wolf

Following wampum laws set into action by former and resigned Chief Billy Dancing Buffalo
Black Wolf  is now the current Chief of this tribe, sadly after a year of service he has resigned. We thank him for his service.
Chief, Billy "Dancing Buffalo" vice chief along with the so called head mother  Joli "Willow" Bland all vacated there offices
Further all elders and counsel members resigned for fear of severe legal action due to due to fraud, deceit
treason, conspiracy and attempted theft of church funds ( Joli Willow Bland )
Sadly they could not even abide by their own "Wampum Laws", nor any other law they made up.
Instead they caused great harm, spoke with forked tongues and are guilty of theft, treason, conspiracy and terrorism.
May they reap what they have sewn a thousand times over.
With all seats vacant that left chief and medicine man in charge by wampum laws
No one after vacating there title / office may set forth orders of any kind.
Chickamauga people do not have a "Grand" Chief. That is a made up title with no power nor authority and like many other things it is something stolen and belongs to another Nation.
If you have any concerns please the wampum laws  that were used at the time.
Please note that the "Wampum Laws" do not nor ever did belong to the Chickamauga people.
They were taken from the   Great Law of Peace and belong to the   Haudenosaunee ( Oneida, Mohawk, Cayuga, Onondaga, the Seneca and Tuscarora ) by a man named Billy Chance, who re-wrote them and then called them his own and claimed they were sacred and belong to the Chickamauga people.
This is a lie that has been perpetuated for many,  many years.
Billy Miller was a member, student and chief of Billy Chances group and brought the fraudulent made up Wampum Laws with him when he and Chance had a falling out.
He reformed a group and called it Red Nation Chickamauga Band. Billy Miller was a member and chief for the Red Nation group, but had several fallings out and left them as well.
He with the assistance of S.C. renamed the group "First Nation Chickamauga"
~ For those who believe lies before evidence and truth ~
Threats of any kind are not our ways but are the ways of the oppressors.
If you are one of those committing such acts we ask that you cease and desists
 All Banishments have been revoked due to fraud, coercion, lies and deceit to obtain them.
Anyone whom was removed let it be known that their positions in this tribe where restored with honor.
Further let it be know that "Banishment" is not part of the Chickamauga culture. It is not even a part of the wampum laws.
But it is a way for tyrants to provoke absolute control of the people through fear and intimidation.
That is not the way of our people, it never has been, nor will it ever be again.
Emenv
First Nation Chickamauga
We are not affiliated with any other group  referring  to themselves as First Nation Chickamauga
Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Epiphany on September 08, 2014, 04:23:46 pm
Quote
Entity Legal Name:
OKLEVUEHA NATIVE AMERICAN CHURCH OF FIRST NATION CHICKAMAUGA INCORPORATED

General Entity Information:

Control Number: 2014072800095
Status: Active
Entity Type: Non-Profit Domestic Corporation

Entity Creation Date: 7/26/2014

This entity is current with Business Entity Report(s).

Registered Agent:
DENNIS PAYNE JR
MARTINSVILLE , IN  46151

Principals:
JACQUELINE M.TRUMP-ASTLING
Incorporator
MIDDLEBURY , IN  46540

Info from an Indiana corporation search https://secure.in.gov/sos/online_corps/name_search.aspx (https://secure.in.gov/sos/online_corps/name_search.aspx)

Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Epiphany on September 08, 2014, 06:08:12 pm
Dennis Payne claims NDN heritage through his father, he says his father is a direct descendent of Moses Payne and Elizabeth Walker of Payne Mountain in Cherokee, NC.

Moses and Elizabeth were born in the early 1800s, so this is distant heritage at best. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=11306208 (http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=11306208) Active genealogy discussion of this family can be found online, no one else claims NDN heritage. In the 1850 census they are a white farming family. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MZY8-T36 (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MZY8-T36)
Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Twncryer on September 09, 2014, 01:07:03 pm
Thunderbolt was a split off from the original First Nation Chickamauga group.  It was originally run by B.D. Miller who has been noted before on here.  It was then passed to Michael Moonwolf.  Involved in this fraud in the Thunderbolt "tribe"  is a woman named Joli "Willow Wind"  Bland, who is their "Head Mother".  She held this "title" in First Nation Chickamauga and fled with half the tribe when accused of mismanaging and stealing church funds.  It was allegedly BD Miller's group that attacked Black Feathers home and supposedly burnt it to the ground.  Jacquie Trump-Asting herself is a known pot head who hides behind the church to take the drug insisting it's a rite and her religious liberty to do so.  Jaquie Trump-Asting  is the President of First Nation Chickamauga ONAC, and claims adoption into the Cherokee by a woman now deceased named No Moccasins who she insists is her "mother".  Cherokee do not adopt outsiders in this day and age, so that is a fraudulent claim.  They have set up their "tribe" under ONAC which is James Mooney's fake NAC Church.  They claim that they are legally and federally protected under this ONAC church, and can carry their eagle feathers and smoke pot, and or do peyote unmolested.  In recent days Ms Trump  made Black Feathers her new "Principle Chief", but if you check the First Nation Chickamauga website, there are three "chiefs" listed.  She rants on about the wampum laws that were fake, and written by Billy Chance, yet uses them at every opportunity.  Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Defend the Sacred on September 09, 2014, 04:56:13 pm
"No Moccasins" (Though I think she spelled it "No Mocassins") is in a few threads here, as the fake Chickamauga group's "shaman."  I recall her doing the usual fake Cherokee thing of dressing in Hollywood NDN, Plains-style garb, nothing Cherokee about it from all the pictures and posts of hers I saw.
Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Epiphany on September 09, 2014, 05:38:29 pm
Quote
please contact Deer Clan Mother Jeanie McKillip at no_moccasin_woman@yahoo.com
I found this info elsewhere here on the forum, that email matches No Moccasins Facebook page. Here is her obit: http://www.staceypageonline.com/2013/04/15/phyllis-jean-mckillip-pending/ (http://www.staceypageonline.com/2013/04/15/phyllis-jean-mckillip-pending/) Her pen name was Truth Seeker. Birth name Phyllis Jean Hensley, father Tony Hensley and mother Dolly McCracken. Her husband Brian K. McKillip.

Thanks Twncryer for your input, helpful to know that Jacqueline Trump-Astling claims she was adopted into the Cherokee by McKillip.

Does Dennis Payne use the name Black Feathers?

Jacqui's current husband is Robert Astling. Is Tommy Teeter a prior husband? http://www.chapelhillmemorial.com///book-of-memories/1381314/Teeter-Tommy/obituary.php (http://www.chapelhillmemorial.com///book-of-memories/1381314/Teeter-Tommy/obituary.php) I assume then that her birth surname is Trump.
Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Twncryer on September 09, 2014, 05:42:36 pm
Yes Payne uses the name Black Feathers.  He is married to a full blood named Valdora Whitewater. You found the correct info however the name is spelled on her so called "adopted mother".
Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Twncryer on September 09, 2014, 05:46:15 pm
I've seen her as Trump-Asting, and her brother is George Trump ("Third Chief Head Man") also on their fake council so yes I'm assuming her maiden name is Trump. Three Chiefs...that's a new one on me. 
Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Twncryer on September 09, 2014, 05:49:23 pm
Also look at the rantings ...this Trump lady is a few cards short of a deck.  "They spoke with forked tongues"...how many old Westerns did she have to watch to come up with that one.
Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Defend the Sacred on September 09, 2014, 05:55:12 pm
Will this incarnation of the fake Chickamauga wear the same, official tribal thongs (http://www.cafepress.com/ucntribe.394711733) as before, or will they have to make new ones?

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2335.msg22331;topicseen#msg22331
Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Epiphany on September 09, 2014, 06:21:49 pm
Will this incarnation of the fake Chickamauga wear the same, official tribal thongs (http://www.cafepress.com/ucntribe.394711733) as before, or will they have to make new ones?

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2335.msg22331;topicseen#msg22331

http://www.cafepress.com/onacfnc (http://www.cafepress.com/onacfnc) No thongs yet, but they do offer beer coolers, flask necklaces, wine chillers, and shot glasses with their "ONAC of First Nation Chickamauga Approved Logo".
Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Epiphany on September 09, 2014, 06:35:35 pm
I see Dennis Payne's wife Valdora Whitewater identifies online as San Carlos and Mescalero Apache/Lipan Apache.

They recently incorporated as OKLEVUEHA NATIVE AMERICAN CHURCH OF INDIANA APACHE & CHEROKEE NATIONS INCORPORATED in Indiana.

Quote
OKLEVUEHA NATIVE AMERICAN CHURCH OF INDIANA APACHE & CHEROKEE NATIONS INCORPORATED

General Entity Information:

Control Number: 2014070900525
Status: Active
Entity Type: Non-Profit Domestic Corporation

Entity Creation Date: 7/9/2014


Registered Agent:
DENNIS PAYNE JR
MARTINSVILLE , IN  46151

Principals
VALDORA WHITEWATER
Incorporator
MOORESVILLE , IN  46158
Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Twncryer on September 09, 2014, 06:35:48 pm
No idea what they will wear, I'm sure whatever it is it will be hokey
Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Twncryer on September 10, 2014, 12:52:00 pm
Other than placing these people here to denounce them, what exactly can be done to stop them...anything at all?  Is this the best that can be hoped for, placing them on a list?
Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: educatedindian on September 11, 2014, 12:44:19 pm
This listing and research on them actually works pretty well. We often becomes one of the leading sources of information on exploiters groups and that warns away new recruits. But there's always more one can do.

Challenge their claims when they make them publicly.
Write articles and post them on indy media.
Write posts about them in other forums where their recruits would most likely see them.
Urge local reporters to do stories about them that look at them critically.
If they commit crimes, report them and urge the cops to investigate and DAs to prosecute. They belong in prison, and some frauds have wound up there.
If you were defrauded of money by them, sue to recover it. If this happened to someone you know, urge them to sue.
If anyone you know is interested in this group, esp people with distant Native ancestry who get taken in, show them this information and try to guide them away.
Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: educatedindian on October 13, 2014, 01:07:32 am
Dennis Payne and his wife Valdora Whiteriver sent me about two dozen rambling facebook messages. After the first I asked him to come here and give his side. The next day I found the two of them had continued ranting on their own for perhaps a half hour after I'd written the single brief message.

So here's some of them, their claims, minus a lot of personal attacks, rants about "racism", and attempts to change the subject.

-----
DP-ATTACHED is a US FEDERAL DOCUMENT PROVING MY ETHNICITY, (UN EDITED) I have nothing to hide.

This Document is Used  FOR COMMERCE Purposes. to Prove we are an American Indian Entity, Operated By an American INDIAN.

I am WHO I SAY I AM, AND I KNOW WHERE I COME FROM AND WHO MY PEOPLE ARE,   AND I KNOW YOU TOO.

I think, your FRAUD Site, is a Good IDEA, in Theory, but your SOURCES are Inaccurate, and Half-cocked, And RESOURCES INFORMANTS of your FRAUDSITE have accepted Monies From OUR ORGANIZATIONS, YOUR MEMBERS that have taken Payments From Our Organization,
Include, AIM Indiana [followed by long rant of unproven allegations of criminal activity. I won't repost it without actual proof.]

--------
I answered with:
We always welcome everyone to tell their side of it and provide evidence that could clear these matters up. I'd be esp interested in how you justify assn. with obvious frauds like Mooney and Oklehueva. So kindly join nafps and post. We'll hear your side. I did see there was a split within ONAC and would like to hear more besides what's posted on the ONAC site.

That's when I left FB, and they kept ranting for a half hour more.

--------
DP-My PHOTO Needs Pulled From Your Site. YOU DO NOT HAVE MY PERMISSION. THIS IS DOCUMENTED, and Will Be Turned Over to Authorities
PRIVACY NOTICE: Warning - any person and/or institution and/or Agent and/or Agency of any governmental structure including but not limited to the United States Federal Government also using or monitoring/using this website or any of its associated websites, you do NOT have my permission to utilize any of my profile information nor any of the content contained herein including, but not limited to my photos, and/or the comments made about my photos or any other "picture" art posted on my profile. You are hereby notified that you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing, disseminating, or taking any other action against me with regard to this profile and the contents herein. The foregoing prohibitions also apply to your employee , agent , student or any personnel under your direction or control. The contents of this profile are private and legally privileged and confidential information, and the violation of my personal privacy is punishable any personnel under your direction or control. The contents of this profile are private and legally privileged and confidential information, and the violation of my personal privacy is punishable by law. UCC 1-103 1-308 THIS MEANS YOU


DP-My Main Question is. WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE DESERVING OF PRISON?  What have me and my Wife done, Deserving of prison?

DP-Proud Of your accomplishments, but not of your actions.

DP-We are Disappointed in you, Brother, and The WITCHHUNT you lead.

VW-You  lied   about me   and  my husband  without  asking me  and   him anything....

DP-I have seen, Several Legitimate People Slandered on your Site,  given, i have seen some that were deserving of such generous Exposure.

DP-as a Teacher of Culture. i would have expect you to RESPECT The OLD WAYS, as you so Seem to Want to Protect,

DP-Respect OUR WAYS., You ask for a picture

DP-My Wife, and I, Have Been Slandered by your Group, and You do Not have my permission to post a Likeness of me.

DP-We Gave you PROOF, we are, Legit. Not to mention, you posted our info. about our "GOOD STANDING" with the state.

DP-My Wife and I, volunteer our time to operate a nonprofit. We help with various groups in INDIANA.
and occasionally Chicago

DP-There was a Split, with, a Heritage Group. with a similiar name A Group, calling themselves. THUNDERBOLTS? are not ONAC

DP-Well, Mooney, Has Proved himself in Federal Court.

-------

Well he seems to have trouble reading what's actually in this thread. The doc he mentions was a simple notice of being an org in the state.

ETA: Whiteriver has joined us. Hopefully she can add to the story of the split, and how they met and work with Mooney.
ETA again: They are now up to >50 msgs/rants they have sent me on FB. Rather than wade through them, I'm waiting for VW or Payne to speak in their own words. Just glancing at the msgs they'd be embarrassed at some of them were I to repost them here.
Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: milehighsalute on October 13, 2014, 04:50:02 am
i pretty much assume anything with ONAC association is fraud
Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Twncryer on October 16, 2014, 02:10:01 pm
They rant, they rave, they threaten legal action, but of course they will not come here to set any real record straight.  I know of one case on Facebook where they took it upon themselves to harass, and continually badger one poor woman and flood her inbox with the sorts of rants you found on your own Facebook account.  When that person blocked them, they then found others like themselves to find this person, gain friendship, and then trash, harass, and otherwise try to intimidate.  I find it more than interesting, "They have nothing to hide", but Payne insists his picture be removed.  Why not come here in a clear manner to defend his so called "tribe"? Why indeed are they associated with someone like Mooney?  Why are they associated with ONAC which is no Native American NAC at all? Where are Payne's tribal cards, his BIA affiliations?  Oh...he doesn't have them?  Well then he has no business saying he's a NAC.  Registered NACS are all tribal with tribal cards, BIA affiliated.
Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Twncryer on October 16, 2014, 02:12:27 pm
Honestly I think you should post UNEDITED everything they ranted about and embarrass them.  People need to see for themselves who these people are, and their character.
Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Twncryer on October 16, 2014, 02:29:30 pm
A few things need to be filled in.  The original First Nation Chickamauga was run by "Chief Billy".  He became pretty seriously ill, so he vacated his office and it was filled by a man named Bird Spirit AKA Randall Byard.  His so called head mother was a woman named Joli Willow Bland.  Soon after Byard took control it was found out that Joli Willow Bland had misappropriated funds meant for the so called "church".  Along with that, Byard was accused of trying to start his own separate tribe.  There was a huge panic and a fallout.  The group was then divided and split and there was terrible animosity.   Another man stepped up to hold what was left of this "tribe" together.  They continued to use the name First Nation Chickamauga which was highly disputed.  Byard, Billy and the original group accused the splinter faction of stealing the name First Nation Chickamauga, and also accused ONAC of the same.  This spiraled down until Payne's home was attacked and burnt down to the ground while he and his wife were out of the home, possibly  (alleged no proof) done by followers of the original group that is now called Thunderbolt Chickamauga/Tsikamagi.
Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Twncryer on October 16, 2014, 03:18:40 pm
In terms of his photo:
Facebook Photo Copyright

Facebook says: ‘When you publish content or information using the Public setting, it means you are allowing everyone, including people off Facebook, to access and use that information, and to associate it with you (i.e., your name and profile picture).’

Facebook then says that by signing up you ‘grant’ them a ‘non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license’ (subject to your privacy settings) to use any photos and videos you post on Facebook. http://www.facebook.com/legal/terms

Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: NDEE WOMAN on October 17, 2014, 12:48:08 am
Robin Hannon, You Never cease to Surprise me.
Title: Re: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Twncryer on October 17, 2014, 01:21:07 am
NDEE I have no idea who that person is you mentioned.  Might want to get your facts straight.  These facts are easily obtained from Facebook itself, including the history.  The group has left a blazing trail including the story itself on Valdora WhiteWater's page of the fire.
Title: Re: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Twncryer on October 17, 2014, 01:37:01 am
AND if I might add if it were Robin I'd say cudos to her.  You seem to think that you are not visible and that people do know know what you have been up to.  You might want to note that there are many of us under cover for the express purpose of ferreting out frauds like yourself.  Instead of lurking and making innuendos and accusations why not come out and speak your own "Truths" if you even know the meaning of the word.
Title: Re: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: NDEE WOMAN on October 17, 2014, 01:46:52 am
Robin Anne Hannon, from Maryland, Yea, its you.
Title: Re: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Twncryer on October 17, 2014, 02:07:57 am
Wrong.  I am not from Maryland. I am not Chicano nor Irish.  When you start making such accusations you had better be certain of your facts.  Besides this is simply trying to create a diversion so you do not have to answer for yourselves.
  If you want to talk about facts, state them. If you are from First Nation Chickamauga, stick to the facts of the dialogue here.  Why are you with Mooney?  Do you have a BIA card?  What tribal affiliations do you have?  Where is your reservation? Post here your BIA card. Show proof you are truly NDN, and that you belong to a registered NAC that the BIA has recognized.  Stop hiding in the shadows. If you have a favorite scape goat in this Robin, guess what I'm not her.  On the other hand you have left your messages everywhere for the world to see.  It is right on your council page!  Have you even bothered to read your own words Ms Jacquie Trump?  I know exactly who you are, and you are not going to blame this on the wrong person. What you are doing is both slander and libel of someone who has nothing to do with this to distract from the truths that have been uncovered.  As to the fire it is on Valdora's page.  You have had members come and go, many disgruntled.  People talk, and sooner or later it gets back to us. How hard do you suppose it is for a good investigator to put two and two together? 
Title: Re: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: NDEE WOMAN on October 17, 2014, 02:42:31 am
Here's a Thought, How about you Scrounge up some money, and Get a Lawyer,  We can Go To Court, and all the Evidence you Seek Will Be there, and Our Lawyers can Talk With a Judge, Because, What you are Requesting, is CHURCH DOCUMENTATION. and only a JUDGE can request that information. So Please Have your Lawyer Contact us.

Please include your False accusations. 

Our Church Contact Info is Registered with the INDIANA SECRETARY OF STATE
 
Sincerely,
-Valdora White Water   
San Carlos/Mescalero Apache of the Red Rock Petruding Clan / and the San Carlos Tsete'ehe' Sdjine' clan,

PS,
-- Please Contact My Reservation Office in San Carlos, AZ. for My Information.

San Carlos Tribal Office 1-928-475-2361
Mescalero Tribal Office 1-575-464-4494
Title: Re: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Twncryer on October 17, 2014, 02:52:12 am
You have the right to tell us your story.  Instead you come here and blame some other innocent person who has nothing to do with this.  Instead of blaming and trying to find a scapegoat, enlighten us. Instead of hiding behind your fake church and claiming it's "church documentation." this is your opportunity to set it right.
 A church is not a tribe.  If you are not BIA you are as fake as it gets in spite of what Indiana recognizes.  If you have nothing to hide, put your entire story here.  We will give it equal time. 
Everything you are doing is a smoke screen to try to deflect, and all you are succeeding at, is proving our point.  When you have nothing to hide you should have no problem telling your story and vindicating yourself.  I for one would be very interested in hearing what you have to say when you are not hiding behind your fake church.
Title: Re: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Twncryer on October 17, 2014, 02:57:16 am
And Ms Whitewater why did you not identify yourself right away?  Why bring yet another unknown person into this thing and assume it was them?  Rather than spout accusations you have a rare opportunity to set the record straight, and all you can do is talk "lawyer".  It seems to me you are afraid, and are trying to intimidate by using the word lawyer, law suit, slander, libel, but yet you refuse to give us your side of this thing. 

Frankly I'm not intimidated, I'm disgusted with this and with you.
Title: Re: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: NDEE WOMAN on October 17, 2014, 03:15:03 am
I do have to admit. your sense of humor, exposing ALTON. Thanks for your hardwork keeping us all safe from him. lol.

 Please don't forget to have your lawyer contact us. So We Can Clear Up these Matters. I would love to see what you look like in court. Not to mention, I can at least meet my accusers Face to Face, Legally, and Peacefully,  Let us Be Sure to get everything COURT CASE RECOGNIZED and OFFICIALLY DOCUMENTED With The Courts, Making things Completely PUBLIC,

PS
 Be Sure To Submit your list of Witnesses , we don't want you leaving anyone out. I am sure they want to meet with us to resolve this.   





I am So Excited I may get a chance to meet you guys.


-VALDORA WHITE WATER 
Title: Re: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: NDEE WOMAN on October 17, 2014, 03:24:45 am
HAVE YOUR LAWYER CONTACT US, LETS GET THIS RESOLVED LEGALLY.
Title: Re: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: NDEE WOMAN on October 17, 2014, 03:39:13 am
We Invited You, to Legally Confront us, IN PERSON, You ALL hide Behind this Forum. We Invite you to Court. So we can PROVE beyond reason of doubt, We Are Who We Say we are, So ITS YOUR MOVE, GET YOUR LAWYER, If You Cant Do That, Then You have no reason to Speak of these accusations. LAWYER UP. We Will Be WAITING TO HEAR FROM YOU.
Title: Re: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Twncryer on October 17, 2014, 05:06:25 am
You are quite welcome and thank you for unwittingly giving us an opportunity to expose another fraud Ms WhiteWater. 

If I may say so you are doing a most excellent job of making yourself look very bad.  I want to thank you for helping us prove our point and no attorney's are necessary.  Your responses are all anyone with any sense needs. I rest my case. 

As to this person you want to blame so badly,she's been in your gun sights and the gun sights of your group a long time. Quite a vendetta you have going along with a case of paranoia. 

You came to our attention before this thread, check the other references.  Ms Trump had a failed march on DC that is on here.  There were other references to James Flaming Eagle Mooney and ONAC and it's fraud.  There is yet still more on B.D. Miller whose group is now called Thunderbolt Chickamauga.  We've had our eyes on you for quite some time and that has nothing to do with that poor woman you want to crucify so badly.

 
Title: Re: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: NDEE WOMAN on October 17, 2014, 05:26:18 am
Twn Cryer, Contact a lawyer, You want to prove your point, Do it Legally, Get a lawyer, and meet us in court. Let a JUDGE Sort this out.

You have My Info. Call My Nation. Get Your Lawyer, We will Talk.
Title: Re: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: NDEE WOMAN on October 17, 2014, 06:25:15 am
A LAWYER IS NEEDED, for you to accurately Sort your accusations. The Fact you refuse a lawyer, is Proof. You have No Proof. and that you know, You Have No Case.  Your Accusations. are FALSE, And To go on Babbling you don't need a lawyer, is proof You Are a Liar, Because you have NO CASE, Not to Mention you are one who had Illegally Defamed Character, hiding behind a ScreenName.  GET YOUR LAWYER, and Come Prove Your Case. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, OBTAIN A LAWYER, We So Want to Meet Our Accusers FACE TO FACE IN COURT.  Stop Hiding behind your Computer monitor, Get a Lawyer, and Come See me. I WANT YOU TO CALL ME OUT, IN COURT OF LAW.

YOU HAVE OPPORTUNITY TO PROVE YOUR CASE, GET YOUR ATTORNEY. WE ARE READY FOR YOU.
Title: Re: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Twncryer on October 17, 2014, 12:21:17 pm
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2335.msg24187#msg24187
Check this link.  This group not me has know about you for a very long time.  There are many people who have talked to us about you. I haven't "stalked", but I sure have done my research and followed up on numerous complaints from people who used to be in your group

Why don't you stop stalking others since you are so terrified you are being stalked.  I'll provide other links so you can see this is ongoing for a very long time. 
Title: Re: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Twncryer on October 17, 2014, 12:24:40 pm
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=253.msg37596#msg37596

Another link about Mooney.  If you check the various authors you will see that there are a number of people that have your number not just me.

Ok I'm done with this woman.  You may have the last word Ms White Water.  Enough has been said to show who and what you are.  Again thank you for being so transparent.
Title: Re: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Twncryer on October 17, 2014, 12:27:37 pm
Oh and I just love the racist card you try to pull when you are sitting in front of the world naked and looking very bad.  LOL.  Interesting that a cultish, abusive woman and her fake church would try to pull a racist card as a way to deflect truth.  All too familiar unfortunately.

I am so done.  Thank you all for allowing her to come and show her true nature and the nature of her fake tribe.

I'm done here with her.  If anyone else wants to engage her, fine.
Title: Re: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Defend the Sacred on October 17, 2014, 04:33:39 pm
Robin and Valdora tangent thread: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=4484
Title: Re: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: earthw7 on October 17, 2014, 04:34:15 pm
 :o
Title: Re: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Diana on October 17, 2014, 04:40:40 pm
:o

Ditto Earth.
Title: Re: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Defend the Sacred on October 17, 2014, 04:40:56 pm
I'm putting some of this back into the Chickamauga thread, but seriously, Valdora and Robin, calm the heck down and quit screaming at each other. If you don't, you are both getting a time out.
Title: Re: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Defend the Sacred on October 17, 2014, 04:46:06 pm
You know what, never mind. I was going to split this off, but I think the meltdown between these two shows the kind of group this is. I may move more of it later, but right now I just don't care to do cleanup here. It's a mess, so it might as well look like the mess that it is.

And yeah, :o
Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Defend the Sacred on October 17, 2014, 05:04:50 pm
As to this person you want to blame so badly,she's been in your gun sights and the gun sights of your group a long time. Quite a vendetta you have going along with a case of paranoia. 

You came to our attention before this thread, check the other references.  Ms Trump had a failed march on DC that is on here.  There were other references to James Flaming Eagle Mooney and ONAC and it's fraud.  There is yet still more on B.D. Miller whose group is now called Thunderbolt Chickamauga. We've had our eyes on you for quite some time and that has nothing to do with that poor woman you want to crucify so badly.

I don't know if this is an attempt at forced-teaming, or if Ms. Hannon is speaking about herself in the plural as well as the third person, or if she is speaking for one of these fake tribes. But she is not speaking for NAFPS.  Ms. Hannon, you lied to us about your identity. We haven't fully revoked your posting ability yet, but you are not part of the team here; you are not a member in good standing and you cannot speak for us.
Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: educatedindian on October 18, 2014, 08:28:51 pm
It's pretty obvious that Ms. Hannon and Ms. Whitewater had a falling out and are each screaming  "fraud!" at each other, plus accusing each other of crimes. We won't allow the forum to be misused this way. Others have tried and we always put a stop to it. We take great care that all we post is evidence backed by proof.

Whitewater/NW made quite a few accusations of criminal activity without proof. All such have been removed and will continue to be removed. Any further of the same will get a ban until you grow up.

All evidence vs Ms. Hannon belongs in that thread, as should any of her own defenses of herself. Same with Whitewater and ONAC.

Dragging this back on topic, Payne and Whitewater sent me, among the 50+ childish temper tantrums, what they claim is "proof." The two docs include one simple business doc registered with the state, and another truly bizarre one sent to the US State Dept.

I imagine the State Dept. must have been scratching their heads as to why a new group claiming to be a church would contact them. Likely it went into their circular file, or was filed and forgotten. It does not prove anything that Payne and Whitewater claim. Neither does the first doc, except they are a registered organization.

And both of them still defend an obvious fraud like Mooney and their long association with him. Mooney is not Seminole like he claims, and ONAC is not an NAC group, but white drug users who try to use the laws that protect the NAC to protect their getting high. That's why ONAC belongs under Frauds, because Mooney is one.
Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: NDEE WOMAN on October 20, 2014, 11:56:06 am
Wish you would have kept the threads of the accusing fraud twncryer aka robin a hannon, proof she is the one who accused us, the only evidence you assume you have wouldn't. Even hold water in court, by exposing the real fraud your member twncryer, we can only assume everything else this site has on onac is from same or similar source
Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: earthw7 on October 20, 2014, 02:00:47 pm
who is twncryer she is not a part of the site ???
Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: earthw7 on October 20, 2014, 02:03:33 pm
who is twncryer she is not a part of the site ???
these kind of people give Natives a bad name oh wait they are not even Natives
Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: milehighsalute on October 20, 2014, 02:07:23 pm
why do phonies always come around here threatening with lawyers?
Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: Defend the Sacred on October 20, 2014, 04:18:40 pm
Wish you would have kept the threads of the accusing fraud twncryer aka robin a hannon, proof she is the one who accused us, the only evidence you assume you have wouldn't. Even hold water in court, by exposing the real fraud your member twncryer, we can only assume everything else this site has on onac is from same or similar source

The threads were not deleted. As you were creating duplicate threads under slightly different titles, those extra threads were merged into the one linked above. The only things deleted were your duplicate posts and the libel posted by Robin Hannon aka twncryer.
Title: Re: Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga
Post by: educatedindian on May 21, 2021, 07:40:04 pm
Got a request about Dennis Ray Payne Jr., so called Blackfeathers. On top of getting kicked out of a phony tribe, not too surprisingly he's become a deranged racist conspiracy theorist.
https://twitter.com/DJBlackFeathers

https://www.facebook.com/114161793559146/posts/dennis-ray-payne-jr-also-known-as-blackfeathers-was-removed-as-first-nation-chic/114214930220499/
First Nation Chickamauga Government
March 27, 2020 ·
Dennis Ray Payne Jr. Also known as "Blackfeathers" was removed as First Nation Chickamauga ( FNC ) as our Chief, further his tribal membership was put in suspension.

Upon his discovery of this order, he went and purchased our name sake and incorporated it, currently masquerading about as the real McCoy and self appointed chief. He is not sanctioned by FNC or its people.

Further he is badgering our 82yr old decorated veteran and vice chief. Please pray for this man.

-----
Civil rights claim thrown out.
https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details/USCOURTS-insd-1_19-cv-03957/context
January 21, 2020
Huestus. Fed. R. Civ. P. 4(c). (See Order). Copies mailed. Signed by Judge James Patrick Hanlon on 1/21/2020. (MAC)ORDER Screening Complaint. Any claim against the IMPD is dismissed for failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted.These claims shall proceed against Detective Kelly Rhoda and Detective Huestus. If Mr. Payne thinks the Court has overlooked any claims in the complaint, he shall have 28 days from the entry of this Order to so notify the Court. The clerk is directed under Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 4(c)(3) to issue process to (1) Detective Kelly Rhoda and (2) Detective Doug

March 22, 2021
***PLEASE DISREGARD DUPLICATE ENTRY***REPORT AND RECOMMENDATIONS-Accordingly, the Magistrate Judge recommends that the Court GRANT Plaintiff's unopposed motion and dismiss this matter, without prejudice, pursuant to Fed. R. Civ. P. 41(a)(2). Signed by Magistrate Judge Mark J. Dinsmore on 3/22/2021 Copy sent to Mr. Payne via US Mail(CBU) Modified on 3/24/2021 (CBU).

March 22, 2021
REPORT AND RECOMMENDATION - During a telephonic hearing on March 22, 2021, Plaintiff Dennis Ray Payne, Jr. orally moved to dismiss this matter, without prejudice. [Dkt. 52.] Counsel for Defendants confirmed on the record that Defendants do not oppose that motion. Accordingly, the Magistrate Judge recommends that the Court GRANT Plaintiff's unopposed motion and dismiss this matter, without prejudice, pursuant to Fed. R. Civ. P. 41(a)(2). Copy to Plaintiff via US Mail. Signed by Magistrate Judge Mark J. Dinsmore on 3/22/2021.(SWM) Modified on 3/23/2021 (SWM).

April 8, 2021
ORDER ADOPTING REPORT AND RECOMMENDATIONS for 53 Report and Recommendations. Magistrate Judge Dinsmore has entered a Report and Recommendation, dkt. 53, recommending the Court to dismiss this case without prejudice after Plaintiff orally moved for dismissal, which Defendants did not oppose. Dkt. 53. The parties have had the opportunity to object but have not done so. See Fed. R. Civ. P. 72(b); 28 U.S.C. § 636(b)(1). The Court has considered and now ADOPTS the Report and Recommendation. Dkt. 53. This case is DISMISSED without prejudice under Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 41(a)(2). Final judgment shall issue by separate entry. Copy to Plaintiff via U.S. Mail. Signed by Judge James Patrick Hanlon on 4/8/2021.(MAC)

--------
Payne's parents passed in the last few years. Neither obituary mentions any alleged Native ancestry or tribal membership. But both were active in genealogy societies. Payne's father was Sr. He's Jr.

Their phony church was dissolved in 2018.
-------
https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_in/2014070900525
OKLEVUEHA NATIVE AMERICAN CHURCH OF INDIANA APACHE & CHEROKEE NATIONS INCORPORATED > All filings
Administrative Dissolution
Company
OKLEVUEHA NATIVE AMERICAN CHURCH OF INDIANA APACHE & CHEROKEE NATIONS INCORPORATED
Filing Date 2018-12-05 Filing Number 8103005

------
https://law.justia.com/cases/indiana/court-of-appeals/2019/19a-cr-394.html
Following a May 2017 hit and run in Indianapolis that left a pedestrian dead, Dennis Payne Jr. was convicted of Level 5 felony failure to remain at the scene of an accident resulting in death and Level 6 felony obstruction of justice....

The registered owner of this4Runner was Oklevueha Native American Church located at 7145 Bethany Park in Martinsville, which was the same address listed on Payne’s Indiana driver’s license.  [8]On June 12, Detective Rhoda went to 7145 Bethany Park, which she described as a “residence.”  Tr. Vol. II p. 238.  She did not find a4Runnerthere; however, a neighbor confirmed that a4Runner was normally parked there and that the owner was affiliated with a Native American church in nearby Brooklyn.

....stickers on the rear window of the SUV in the photo looked similar to the stickers on the rear window of Payne’s 4Runner.  Price recognized one of the stickers, a “First Nation Chickamauga” sticker, because he had one on his car...

In October 2017, the State charged Payne with Level 5 felony failure to remain at the scene of an accident resulting in death and Level 6 felony obstruction of justice....A jury trial was held in September 2018....

Following the jury trial, Payne was found guilty as charged. The trial court sentenced him to five years, with four years executed (three years in the DOC and one year on home detention) and one year suspended to probation....