NAFPS Forum
General => Frauds => Topic started by: Dianne Harris on December 30, 2005, 08:01:53 pm
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On a shamainic site in the Fakes in Canada thread I found this about Chulukai Quodosha :
"Reach higher levels of orgastic intensity and sexual ecstasy; learn breathing techniques including the Firebreath to open to your natural life force rhythms. Balance your feminine and masculine within; gain knowledge of genital anatomy types."
What the hell is this Chulukai Quodosha (sp?)
Is it a real thing or is it a load of new age sex for the mentally impotent?
I read somewhere they actually have live sex in the courses.
Does anyone know?
[edited to expand title -kpn]
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It's a scam that a scumball named Harley Reagan perpetrated. If you use the search feature, you will find plenty about Harley the pervert Reagan who calls himself "Swiftdeer" and "THunder Strikes".
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Yeah, they have sex, but I wouldn't call it sex for pleasure. It's done as a cult mind control technique, getting people to do outrageous things so he can more easily control you.
I protested and handed out flyers outside of one of these. Some of these people do go to these because they can't get laid any other way. Some are couples who naively think it's just a better sex course. And the worst thing is that some are extremely lonely and desperate lost people. There was one poor girl who I swear looked barely 18 and was so shy and timid I honestly believe she went to this just to have someone to talk to.
Basically this cult has people insert objects up the rectum as a group and masturbate anally. Sometimes women wrestle in the nude while men watch and cheer. Sometimes groups of men and women sexually assault one woman. Sometimes men are pressured into sex with a male cult leader. Pretty much whatever they think will break the will of someone. And if they try to get out of it they are told they can't get the thousands of dollars they were charged until they complete the course.
Again, warn anyone you know far far away from this insane cult.
This and the Frauds From Canada threads were both moved to Frauds.
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Quote:"It's done as a cult mind control technique, getting people to do
outrageous things so he can more easily control you."
Here is a link to one article about the workshops:
Sex secrets of the Phoenix fire woman. By Annie Sprinkle
http://users.pandora.be/gohiyuhi/articles/art00014.htm
Best line in the article:
"all the workshops were great, but in 02 actual fucking takes place."
I'd like to know when the Cherokee or any other Native American teachings discovered the word "Chakra" Does she call her self a Phoenix fire woman because she's from Arizona? or does she think it's a reference to the mythical bird? Would Chicago Fire woman sound as mysterious?
Now if anyone should doubt this article, they should know that the author Annie Sprinkle is a friend or Harley the Pervert and also a porn star.
Anyone but a complete idiot should know that Chuluaqui Quodoushka is
bogus. Any psuedo-religion that uses sex as part of it's curriculum is
guaranteed to be either totally misguided or as in this case a complete scam.
I'd be staying away from these people, they're dangerous and extremly f--ked up I'd also stay away from anyone who had been to one or more of these workshops and still thought they were good. Only a pervert or slut could
enjoy this nonsense.
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So what I get from this is that it's just basically an orgy but everyone pretends it's for self-help?
I read the link you provided, then I looked up Annie Sprinkle and Harley Reagan.
What a pair of pigs!
I did a lot of searching about them on the Internet.
I have since heard that these people have drugged women and had sex witrh them without their knowledge.
They are supposed to also use sex as part of a healing ceremony.
Another site said something about coercing women into group sex.
Is there no one investigating these people?
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If you know of someone who was drugged and raped by these creeps, they should bring a lawsuit. The only way to stop this perv is to put him in jail.
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Quote:" They are supposed to also use sex as part of a healing ceremony."
I've heard of this before too. It's the old 'internal massage' gag. They start with a massage then tell the woman they need to be massaged internally to 'fix' the problem. Then the hand gets replaced by a penis and you can guess the rest.
It's not restricted to cult groups. It's one of the oldest forms of sexual abuse.
Any time a doctor or healer claims she needs an internal massage, she should get out of there right away, she's in the hands of a sexual predator. She should also report it, as these types will go on to do it to other women and even young girls.
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I found this today, same sort of thing.
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Monday, December 12, 2005
Three more women have come forward and accused a Grand Junction massage therapist of sexually assaulting them while he was giving them massages.
Mark Earl Luttrall, 42, was arrested in October after three women accused him of fondling their pelvic area and breasts during massages at the Ancient Arts Healing Therapies he runs out of his home at 923½ Road 23.
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Just another pig taking advantage of gullible women. If women don't speak up then it just happens to even more women. At least this guy is getting what he deserves. However too many other so called 'Shamans" are still using sex in ceremonies for theri own perverted pleasure.
People have to realise that anyone using sex as part of a ceremony or healing is just a pervert No real ceremonies involve sex!
I have learned enough now to know that the Chulukai Quodosha has nothing to do with Native American ceremnoies. It's all made up hokum, put together to make money from gullible people. The techniques they teach may even be harmful in some cases. Not to mention the very very high risk of getting an STD from the others in the course because theres a lot of sexual contact between the students and instructors.
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A month ago a New Age healer here in my home town (whom I have met several times) was accused of sexual misconduct during his sessions. Two women finally got enough courage to come forward, backed up by a friend of mine. However, the District Attorney couldn´t get a case going since both women were to scared to testify in court.
Shortly afterwards one of these women tried to commit suicide and is now in hospital. He messed her up totally! Up till now another 20 women have come forward - still noone who wants to face him in court, though. And this healer guy just carries on like if nothing had happened....! It´s incredible!
Annika
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To find out more about this sex workshop try a few variations on the spelling. The most common being Chuluaqui Quodoushka.
Quotes:
Increasingly individuals are turning to 'quodoshka' to explore and come to terms with their sexuality. For some it is an enlightening experience, others find it sordid and are unable to come to terms with the teachings.
'It was OK to start with when we were talking about the healing aspects of sexuality but some of the other exercises made me feel very uncomfortable and it all seemed more seedy than sacred',' said Jackie, 36.
I found it interesting that all the New Age sites promote this as a real teching but on other sites that are not New Age, there's a strong aversion to this. It's like the New Age sites are all working together to create this false belief in their hokum.
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From another post in another thread
The Nuagers Dictionary
"Sacred Sex"- The Nuage way of appeasing guilt over sex by charging gullible people money to do it in the context of a ceremony of dubious origin. Usuallly includes less socially accepted sexual practices like homsexuality/bisexuality, self-sodomy/wanking, and downright deviant practices like chickenhawking/pedophilia.
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I just have to ask.
What the hell is 'chickenhawking'?
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Grown men going after young teenage boys I think.
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posted on reseacher needed but perhaps this is the group i was talking about. a friend attended a weekend workshop in MN. a workshop called Pasayan. Does anyone know what this word means?? She said "energy work from the Kundalini" which related to the sexual energy according to yoga and rakie. Anyone know anything about this, all she said is Guru Dece led it but unable to get a real name. She states "I vubrated at a certain harmonious voltage with guru dece. He literally transports me to a new plane. Am now grounded in this wonderful state of acceptance..it's peaceful and serene..blissful..yes, a delicate flavor of bliss comes with these practices. It's my desire to continue to be lead by guru dece."
Joyce A
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Quote:"To find out more about this sex workshop try a few variations on the spelling. The most common being Chuluaqui Quodoushka. "
I did that, but mostly all you get is a bunch of self-supporting Nuage sites all saying the same thing.
You really have to search hard to find out the truth instead.
The truth is out there, and it's pretty scary. They seem to take great delight in teching people to degrade themselves. I guess people with low self-esteem just eat this stuff up. Normal people wouldn't be bothered.
You just want to shout to these people:
THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS CHAKRAS!
THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS UNIVERSAL ENERGY!
THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS SACRED SEX!
THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS FIRE BREATH ORGASM!
None of this stuff stands up to proper scientific methods. It's all Nuage Hype.
Sorry for my rant but it's like watching children playing in traffic, you want to yell at them for their own good.
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Yes, there are Chakras....do a bit of research.....some snippets:
Chakra is a Sanskrit word meaning wheel, or vortex.
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The idea of the subtle vital force (prana) and the channels along which it flows (nadis) appear in the earliest Upanishads (7th-8th century b.c.e.). The heart was said to be the centre of the 72,000 nadis or subtle channels, and the place into which the senses are withdrawn during sleep. As with many ancient civilisations (e.g. Egypt, Homeric Greece), the heart was also considered the seat of waking consciousness.
But it was only in the later Upanishads - the earlier of which were composed somewhere between the 2nd century b.c.e. and the 2nd century c.e. - reference is first made to basic Tantric concepts such as chakras, mantras, and so on.
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Tantric Buddhism (or Vajrayana) broke off from the Indian Tantric one at a very early stage. Hence they developed a rather different version of the chakras. Tibetan Buddhism acknowledges four (navel, heart, throat, and head), five, seven, or even ten chakras or "channel wheels"; each with a different number of "spokes" to its Indian Tantric counterpart. The navel chakra for example has sixty-four spokes, the heart chakra eight, the throat sixteen (the only one to agree with the Hindu scheme), and the head or crown chakra thirty-two.
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And yes, there have been various "new-age" interpretations, most of which are crap....but the basic idea of Chakra existed long before the idea became "popular".
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Of course there is such a thing as Sacred Sex. Sex IS Sacred. That idea, too, has existed for centuries. And Tantra simply refers to the Divine Union of Opposites. Of course now, something like this just debases the sacredness and makes me ill.
http://www.sacredsexyes.com/
Just because some so-called "new-ager" has bent and twisted some of these terms and uses them improperly does not mean that they do not exist, or that they are not still valid within the original teachings.
You can't deny the existance of things just because you do not understand them.
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Quote:" You can't deny the existance of things just because you do not understand them"
Your logic is flawed.
You cannot justlfiy existence on the grounds that you cannot prove the opposite.
Your argument about the existence of Chakras has a hole in it. Long belief in something does not in itself provide proof of it's reality.
From the Skeptics dictionary:
The alleged energy of the chakras is not scientifically measurable, however, and is at best a metaphysical chimera and at worst an anatomical falsehood.
From Answers.com:
Scientific basis
The idea of chakras as understood in Eastern philosophy does not exist in Western medical science. In Eastern thought, the chakras are thought to be levels of consciousness, and states of the soul, and 'proving' the existence of chakras is akin to 'proving' the existence of a soul.
Therefore, she is correct in saying "chakras" don't exist.
As for all sex is sacred? Also flawed, for then rape would also be sacred... so would animal sex, homosexual sex...
The truth of the matter is that what they are pushing is all garbage, and only an easily duped person, or incredibly naive would believe otherwise.
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Quote:"And yes, there have been various "new-age" interpretations, most of which are crap....but the basic idea of Chakra existed long before the idea became "popular".
Chakras have never been proven to exist. No more than Ghosts, Vampires Werewolves, or UFO's
Just because people think something up doesn't make it true.
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Ganeida, I think what's important is that there's no such thing as chakras or "sacred sex" in any Native traditions, at least any I ever heard of. It's the wrong kind of Indian, and they're trying to confuse people.
"Sacred sex" such as tantra is basically just getting the guy to slow down so the woman can have time to orgasm. I think most NDNs (American ones) would say you don't feel the need to make sex "sacred" unless you were feeling guilty about it before. Or unless some creep wants to talk some girl into it when he couldn't get her any other way. It reminds me more than a little of those fundamentalists who insist married couples pray before sex.
In other words, it's just humping, why bring in religion at all?
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As for all sex is sacred? Also flawed, for then rape would also be sacred... so would animal sex, homosexual sex...
The truth of the matter is that what they are pushing is all garbage, and only an easily duped person, or incredibly naive would believe otherwise.
Just a request, I'm sure nothing was meant by it, but so that those of us on this board who aren't straight aren't made to feel unwelcome - could we not lump homosexual sex in with rape and bestiality?
thanx,
:)
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I am sorry, I did not intend it to come out that way.
I was trying to show that to some people, other forms of sex, including homosexual sex is very alien. As easily, in some cultures polygamy or polyandry is acceptable, but not the "norm" in our culture.
The "swingers" lifestyle is equally alien to those of us who are monogamous.
I suppose I might have worded it a bit better, no offense was meant.
As has since been pointed out, it's only humping.
Sex is a natural bodily function, as is urinating defecating, etc....
Hmmm there's a money maker....
A course on "Sacred Defecation"
You too, can experience Sacred Defecation.
Do you go too early in your pants? Premature defecation affects many men.
Learn how to control your defecation.
Got to go now?
Learn how to suck it back up into your Chakras.
Learn how to fill up your other Chakras as you need to .
Learn how to obtain that feeling of relief without actually going.
Learn how to go more than once.
Learn how to keep going and prolong your defecation for up to 10 minutes!
Spiritual Defecation is the ultimate secret to happiness.
Live longer, smell less.
Native Americans have been taught since childhood how to defecate spiritually. You too can learn these ancient traditions. They have been handed down from the Toltecs, and other Native American tribes and blended with a bit of Eastern mysticism to explain the bits we couldn't think up on our own.
Remember , just like the other New Agers you too can be full of shit and still be happy.
Sign up also for Sacred Urination. Women too, can learn to write theri name in the snow.
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Quote:" A course on "Sacred Defecation"
I almost did a "Sacred Defecation" in my pants when I read that.
Please warn me next time you are gonig to be funny.
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What nationality is that guy anyhow?
Like the fake Siberian shamans of the Rudnev cult he has one name which is Native Siberian and one which is Hindu. Interesting...even in Silk Road times Hindus were non-existent in Siberia.
It is interesting to note that if you Google his name he appears mostly in French, German, and Russian language websites, so he is probably another follower of the infamous Konstantin Rudnev.
The Rudnev cult is very preoccupied with sex, largely as a way of mind control and exploitation of female followers. Their Russian-language website could be considered obscene to pornographic depending on how prudish you are. Sex is not part of and never was part of Siberian religious practice, although if you go a little bit south you will find it in India and Tibet.
I was very disgusted and shocked, however, that even some Native American medicine people do stoop to that level. I was invited to a Native American cultural center in the city in which I now live to meet an Inuit angaqoq (spelling may be wrong, but in their tradition similar to a shaman in ours). Dressed in traditional clothing, bringing him gifts I had brought from Siberia, I met with him and the Native American people who came to see him. Afterwards he wanted to talk to me one on one, and as soon as the door was closed he dropped his pants! I was disgusted and shocked. He proposed to me then and later by e-mail that we do some sort of sweat-lodge sex ceremony.
It seems to me that Native Americans need to ferret out some of the charlatans who are still being accepted as the real thing in the Native American community.
So Mr. Little Stone Quodosha (translating the Siberian part of his name) seems to be, like the angaqoq mentioned above, one of those New Age teachers that are using women for the sake of their own sexual gratification. Shame on them all. They have probably caused more damage to families than bringing healing in spite of all the love and light talk.
regards,
Sarangerel Odigon
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So tell me then, how many real Native cereminies actually involve or require nudity?
Any?
or is it just a Nuage scam?
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I would guess very few require nudity, if any. Most of the "nudie ceremonies" are new age fantasies and scams.
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No Native Americans do not have anything to do with nude cerermonies. This is just another lie and false teachings that are abundant concerning Native Americans.
www.native-language.org/religion.htm.
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forgive me the site thread given seems correct but does not go to where it was to go. Google"indian religion" and click on Seeking Native American Spirituality and Religion. Sorry
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The only nudity I have seen in a native ceremony has been with an all men's sweat, and that has been very rare. It was not uncommon pre-reservation that men sweated in the nude.
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The sweats that I have seen men sweat in the nude was due to the fact that the men there did not know I was a female. It was in the middle of winter on one of the rez's up north. I was helping the fire tender due to the bittness, and with all the clothing I had on, no one knew I was out there until the meal, and nothing was said on the matter.
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So tell me then, how many real Native cereminies actually involve or require nudity?
Any?
or is it just a Nuage scam?
Mostly it's a Nuage Scam. Real native American ceremonies don't do nude ceremonies, and certainly not co-ed or mixed sex ceremonies. Nor do they do healing ceremines involving sex or nudity. Instead of having 'real' ceremonies, they make them up to sound like what the wannabe's think they should be.
Like the Quodosha thingy, it's all a mixup of nonsense and bits and pieces of other cultures. Like Tantra's and Chakras (India), also stuff from the Wiccans. One "Q" lesson is actually supposed to have been lifted from some scene in a cheap B-movie.
The nudity bit in the ceremonies is borrowed from the Wiccans. They think it's a part of their and Druid culture. The fact that the Druids were wiped out by the Romans to the last man, and left no oral or written history is mostly overlooked, so they made up their own ceremonies too.
It's pretty funny when you realise that most of these Nuage ceremonies are fakes, based in part on other faked or made up ceremonies.
You often hear of some pervert who claims ot be able to heal a woman's problems by 'massage' or a healing cereminy. Starts out nude massage, moves onto rubbing outside then inside then the a reason or a need to put a penis in there. By the time the woman realizes she's been had it's too late.
The nudity is a good way also to make them more easily controlled. It strips away their will and makes them easier to control. Plus, you can guess pretty much that is someone is stupid enough to fall for 'nude ceremonies' they are pretty likely to fall for any number of other ideas (such as 'internal massage')
Also, they rely on the embarrassment factor to keep people who have been conned from telling the world about it.
Afterall, who is going to admit they paid money to go out in the woods with a bunch of strangers. Took off all theri clothes with them, then pranced around like some silly village idiot. All the while doing whatever some people with names like 'Karen Dancing Bear Schiklegruber' told them to do. I think there's a lot of that you wouldn't want friends family and co-workers to know about. Let alone telling your spouse you have been getting an internal massage. So the nudity is a good way to impose silence on those smart enough to eventually realise they were conned. (assuming there are any that ARE bright enough. )
Now, I'm going to take off my clothes and put a feather up my butt, and ..... NOT!!
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Now here's one if you want to get serious about stopping the 'Q' sex workshops. There's even emails and phone numbers to contact them (as if that is likely to do any good)
They don't take place until June 2006, so there's lots of time to do something.
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"Quodoshka Workshop
Now that my laptop is repaired, I can share some news with you. Over the past month, I received a couple very nice e-mails from Rob & Manuela at Sweet Medicine Lodge. They offer Quodoshka workshops, and the next one is coming up in early-June.
The following excerpts are from their brochure (Copyright material from Sweet Medicine Lodge). Please do not interpret this blog entry as a recommendation for or against their workshops. I have not met Rob & Manuela, and I have not attended any of their workshops. If any Tantra Grand Rapids members have studied with Rob & Manuela, please share your experiences with us.
Chuluaqui Quodoushka I & II
Sponsored by Sweet Medicine Lodge
Q I Friday June 2-Monday June 5, 2006
Q II Thursday June 8-Sunday June 11, 2006
Near Ann Arbor, Michigan
To Register Contact:
Manuela Lightning Horse
517-456-8163
BlightningHorse@aol.com
OR
Rob & Manuela
Rrbluehawk@aol.com, Blightninghorse@aol.com, swmedicine@cox.net
About the teachers
Karen Krauss, Lightning Spirit (formerly known as Laughing Otter Woman)
Karen attended her first Quodoushka in 1984 and was so inspired by this sacred knowledge that she devoted herself to training in the shamanic tradition of the Sweet Medicine SunDance Path. Facilitating Quodoushka seminars since 1988, Karen is motivated by the inner truth that freedom within one's spiritual-sexuality sparks one's passion for life. With her alive and full of heart manner she guides others in the process of growing and changing in a natural way. She has facilitated seminars in the U.S. and Europe. You can reach her at swmedicine@cox.net.
John Ardagh, Thunder Wolf
John Thunder Wolf began his shamanic training in the Sundance Path in 1985. From the moment he attended his first Quodoushka he knew he had found a way through the maze of human sexuality. He brings the experience of his rich and varied life as a musician, teacher, psychotherapist, father and husband. His way of teaching brings humor and care in helping others to heal their pain and find their naturalness within their sexuality.
Namasté!"
http://tantragrndrpds.blogspot.com/2005/12/quodoshka-workshop.html
Their site even allows you to post your own comments. I posted a link to this forum and this topic. And even though they claim to check the comments first, they posted it!!! So I guess they are not too clever.
Karen Krauss is listed at the usual Deer Tribe Metis site.
John Ardagh, Thunder Wolf shows up on the website for the Institute of Contemporary Shamanic Studies in Toronto Canada (http://www.icss.org/ ) which was already posted as a fraud site in the Fakes in Canada thread.
His picture is at another Canadian fraud site:
http://www.blacklightning.on.ca/Leaders/leaders.html
Doesn't look too damned Indian to me. In fact none of the others on there (male or female) do!
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There is an article on the Online Wilkipedia Encyclopedia relating to Chuluaqui Quodoushka.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuluaqui_Quodoushka
Also you can find subjects like Harley Reagan and a few other interesting topics by using the Search feature.
None of the Articles are too flattering about the subjects.
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I went with one of these medicine schools in New York state. One of the ceremonies I had to do was to hang by a rope around my ankles upside down over a river. Somehow, I got talked into doing this thing naked bacause they were going to lower me into the water. I was told it was the proper way to do it. I felt pretty good about it at first but then a few things started to bug me.
After the cermony was over I started to feel a little foolish. Then embarrassed.
I later found out it wasn't a real ceremony at all.
Even worse, when I told someone else about it, he laughed and told me I had been tricked. That all they had done was taken a simple baptism ceremony and dressed it up to look like it was an Indian thing. I felt so stupid!
After that I stopped going to the school. I didn't want to tell anyone what I had done because I felt so taken in. I didn't want anyone else laughing at me.
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This is exactly why I try to warn people about frauds! I get very angry when I see people taken advantage of the way you were.
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My heart goes out to you. Thank you for sharing that with us. So many wonderful people are being hurt and even killed by these frauds.
I do have a question and if I offend you please forgive me,it is not my intention. I really want to understand so I can be of more help to others.
What drew you to this school and into this terrible thing that happened?? Are there other things that were said or "ceremonies" taught/done that can shed even more light on these Fakes out there.
Out of respect I ask these things???
Wado.
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I went there because my boyfriend's sister had suggested it. I was trying to fit in and be friends with his family. She was studying there and she made it sound os neat.
I saw lots of stuff that actually seemed real. They had pipe ceremonies and ceremonies for healingand clearing the mind and about shifting my energy. They had all sorts of stuff lithat looked like it was authentic stuff. They had books and made it almost like going to school. Kind of like I remember bible school was so it seemed ok.
We all dressed up. And we all were to buy our supplies and pay donations to pay for our course.
They had sweat lodges, but I didn't doi them because I was never very tolerant of heat. I wuld have thrown up.
They made is all seem like we were sisters and it felt very much like family. It was easy to stop going because by then even Julie had stopped going. I think she still wanted to go, but she had a big argument with some other girl that went there.
After I did the water ceremony thing, I just felt kind of weird. It was like they were no longer the people I had thought they were. Kmowing they had all seen me with nothing on made me feel stupid. Especially the guys. They seemed to be acting nicer than ever but I knew they just saw me like I was easy..
I went once or twice more but I didn't feel comfortable again so I stopped.
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Wado Sarah for sharing that. You are a much wiser person now and I'm sorry you had to learn lessons that way. You now can be a watchman for all that get invovled in these frauds. Yes they make it seem so nice and the "feeling of family" is a major hook with these people.
You have a lot to give to this site for you have firsthand knowledge...I hope you will continue to share these things with all.Remember they took ADVANTAGE OF YOU SO TOSS IT ALL BACK ON THEM,SHAME AND ALL!!!.
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Quote:"I later found out it wasn't a real ceremony at all.
Even worse, when I told someone else about it, he laughed and told me I had been tricked. That all they had done was taken a simple baptism ceremony and dressed it up to look like it was an Indian thing. I felt so stupid! "
Not surprising really. A lot of cults do a baptism type ceremony.Cults often use stolen ideas to make their garbage seem normal. It's to make it sem ok when it's not. They take real ceremonies, in your case a baptiem and corrupt it by doing it the way you descibe to make it theirs.
Similarly they take bits of native ceremonies and corrup them too, getting the people to do what feels to them as though it's real, but in fact it's often all fake.
You were far too trusting however. May I ask, did you lose much money when you were with them?
It's a good thing you didn't do the Sweats, it's not uncommon for people to get hurt when people employ fake ceremonies. And sweats are one of the most dangerous when done improperly.
That you were able to see them for what they were is a good thing.
Was this group part of the Deer Tribe Metis? They are known for employing nudity in fake ceremonies and trying to employ sex to manuipulate their members. They also do a 'sisterhood' which sounds a lot like what you were talking about making it seem like family. Again, groups within groups to make the cult stronger, and to hide itself in layers of deception.
My final thought is that you were very lucky, Your eyes were open enough to see through them. Many people refuse to see the truth and keep going back to these cults and make them a big part of their lives.
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Hi again
I thank you all for your kind words. I was so surprised to find out that I'm not alone in this. For the longest while I felt like I was the only person who could be so stupid. So dumb.
Finding out that it is all over the place makes me feel better. In some ways. But it makes me feel angry that other people are doing this to.
Someone asked abou the Deer Tribe?
Yes, I think it was part of it. Or at least it was on some stuff I read while I was there.
they did have a sisterhood group.
I didn't spend a lot of money because I only work parttime and i don't have a lot. I did waste money on things they told me were shamanic supplies i would need for some ceremonies.
Again not a lot because I just couldn't afford it.
Julie told me she quit because she had an argument with one of the other women there. But now she tells me she was getting hassled a lot by them. They were trying to get her to spend more time and stuff. And she didn't want to ,.
I don;t think she was feeling too comfortable with it all like me. She just won't say and I won't ask again.
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I just finished reading the manual for the Chulukai-quodoushka or whatever you spell it.
I was given it through some friends.
What a load of bull-crap!
It is loaded with fake indian nonsense. I really thought it was funny when it basically said for one ceremony, If it doesn't work after 28 days try it again!
It even has instructions on how to masturbate. Both for men and women. All worded in Tonto speak. I was laughing so hard my sides were hurting.
I think if anyone believes this stuff is real ancient indian wisdom then there's no hope of saving them. They are too dumb to help.
Whoever wrote this manual up was a real joker. It is so stupid.
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"I think if anyone believes this stuff is real ancient indian wisdom then there's no hope of saving them. They are too dumb to help."
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That's a lot of the reason these cults flourish. The people in them actually do believe it helps them. They cannot see that they are wasting their time with it. They don't understand that the ceremonies, the workshops the mumbo-jumbo they are being taught is pure garbage.
They cannot accept that they have been duped. If someone tells them it's fake or nonsense, they refuse to accept it.
You cannot blame them, you look at some of these web sites, some of the people on them represent themsleves as having studied the stuff for years. How on earth can they accept that what they have believed, studied, acted on, and spent money on for years was a complete and utter waste of time.
How completely devastating that would be.
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I just finished reading the manual for the Chulukai-quodoushka or whatever you spell it.
I was given it through some friends.
What a load of bull-crap!
It is loaded with fake indian nonsense. I really thought it was funny when it basically said for one ceremony, If it doesn't work after 28 days try it again!
It even has instructions on how to masturbate. Both for men and women. All worded in Tonto speak. I was laughing so hard my sides were hurting.
I think if anyone believes this stuff is real ancient indian wisdom then there's no hope of saving them. They are too dumb to help.
Whoever wrote this manual up was a real joker. It is so stupid.
?
Can you post the manual? Did you get it as an ebook or is it in the tradtional tree killer format(paper)?
I've heard so much about it that I'd really be interested in seeing it.
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One of my friends said the manual was the sickest most perverted thing she ever read. And she is open minded and has done tantra.
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One of my friends said the manual was the sickest most perverted thing she ever read. And she is open minded and has done tantra.
It's not all that bad but I can see how your friend might be grossed out by some of it.
There are a parts where they talk about how young men and woman upon reaching puberty are initiated sexually by a "fireperson". It reads a bit like a perverts reasoning for why sex with children is "ok". I can see how a potential molestor could grasp at this and go on to molest children after being in the "Q". In fact, I'd be surprised if they didn't as it implies it is good for the child.
I think what puzzled me the most was that it claims to be for relationships but the intimacy is all the "how to"
Example below gives the how to on masturbating your partner, then ends with "Kiss, caress, etc..." like that part of it is incidental to the experience.
I can see how this worshop relates to real sex about as much as porno movies relate to real sex.
It has sections on how to masturbate and using sex in ceremonies. It's mostly garbage though.
I will post a bit of it. I will have to type it in to do it. and I am certainly not going to type in the whole manual.
I will do a bit here and ther as I get chance or feel like making the effort.
Here's a quick example:
This is from female masturbation.
8. "Climbing Mt. Venus or Climbing the mountainside"
Without breaking contact, lie down beside the woman on her right side.
Roll the hand with fingers inside so the palm is facing up.
Maintain pressure on the Fire Trigger with the base of the hand on the clit (without moving the hand).
This connects the G-Spot and the clit so that they become as one unit.
The woman can then thrust against your hand.
Kiss, caress etc.
9. "Birthing The Feathered Winged Serpent"
The outside position remains the same as in step 8 and stay stationary.
The hand that is inside remains palm up as the fingers begin to pump the Fire Trigger
Again the amount of pressure varies from sister to sister.
If the woman puts her hand on the man's hand she can help maintain and control the pressure
10. "Creation"
If you are doing this woman to woman, lie together so there is full body contact, and your clits are touching.
If you are doing this man to woman, lie so that your cock's clit touches hers.
Clit to clit and ride it.
Slide inside at the right time!
As far as I can tell, it's just the same stuff you'd find in any How to Sex Manual, fancied up with words like "Fire Trigger" instead of G Spot.
"Anoint with oil" instead of use lube.
For the curious, the cock's clit is "the V at the base of the cock's head" according to the "Q" book.
I asked my hubby, he said it was called the "frenulum" and although it is filled with a lot of nerves it is not that big a deal for him.
This typed in a bit faster than I expected so I may post a bit more later. If anyone has this manual as an ebook (a few people have seen it online) then please save me the effort and post it or give me a link.
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Omigod!
I should have thought of this before.
Is this ok what I am typing from the "Quodoushka" manual?
I just realised it is a bit offensive and I don't want to upset anoyne. So if this offends anyone please, please say so.
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Omigod!
I should have thought of this before.
Is this ok what I am typing from the "Quodoushka" manual?
I just realised it is a bit offensive and I don't want to upset anoyne. So if this offends anyone please, please say so.
I have no problem with what you wrote. I don't think this is a place that too many kids will frequent.
In some cases, the information is more important than the risk of offending a few tight asses.
What you posted so far is scary. I can't believe that they really can teach this legally.
Linda
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As far as I can tell, it's just the same stuff you'd find in any How to Sex Manual, fancied up with words like "Fire Trigger" instead of G Spot.
"Anoint with oil" instead of use lube.
.
Yes, I've seen those instructions before. almost word for word. Typical New Age stuff. Rewrite it and sell it. Some fool will buy it.
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Quoting from the Deer Tribe manual:
"The Chuluaqui is the primordial life force energy from which everything is created. It is the inner most essence of all beings. It is the Whirlwind Serpent Fire of sexual creation. With this life force acccording to ancient legends Wakantanka, the Great Spirit (The Everything) experienced the realization of duality and saw itself as the receptive creative force of the universe and the active conceptive force of the galaxy. These two energies came together in the total union of their emotional, mental, physical, spiritual and sexual energies and with their life force and experienced full sexual merging which is the Quodoushka. From that and from there, it created and birthed itself into all forms of all things and created life as we know it today.
Quodoushka is the total sexual merging of two energies coming together in perfect harmony. Fully merging their energies in doing this, more life is created between the two. when human beings come into total emotionmal , mental, physical, spiritual and sexual harmony with a lover, a cohesive union is created and the Chuluaqui Quodoushka energy is experienced. In this state we become one with the everything. This high energy state allows for healing and wholeness for
both human beings. It is when you truly know each other because there is no separation.
The teachings presented in this handout are a part of the ancient traditions of spiritua lsexuality from the Sweet Medicine sundance Path. These Ancient
people seemed to truly understand the agnificence and power of their sexuality and had discovered ways to bring balance and harmony to their lives through the use of sexual energy.
The ancient tribes taught children about the beauty of their sexuality at an early age. Children were taught about the sacredness of the sexual union and the importance of honoring the people they chose to connect with.
When the children reached puberty they underwent a special initiation ceremony, after which the girls were brought to a Fireman and the boys were brought to a firewoman. These highly trained medicine men and women who specialized in teaching "Fire Medicine" (The ancient knowledge of spiritual sexuality). The young initiates would then study with their fireperson for several years during which they would be taught about all aspects of their sexuality. The young ones made love with the Fireperson first and, were taught not only all the techniques for using their physical bodies, but also to develop and use their sexual energies. Thus lovemaking could become a beautiful, intimate, energixzing and harmonizing experience.
Sexuality balances every aspect of our being:emotional, mental, physical, spiritual, and catlyses the full expression of our being. It allows us to experience our naturalness. Sexuality helps heal past pain and pain tapes stored in our body as blockages in our energy flow.
These wheels, keys and knowledge offer an alternative and enlightened approach to sexuality as well as some beautiful ways to bring new understanding, openess and healing into this area of our lives.
The Quodoushka Level 1 Workshop is designed for you to understand the catayst energy in your body and how to use it for wholeness, healing and to find your naturalness within your physical body. You could say that it's your "Owners Manual" of how to keep your physical body vibrant, healthy through the full expression of your life force, your catalyst energy."
My notes on this:
you will note above the idea of children being initiate by adults sexually. I have BIG problem with this. Everyone I have shown this to, can see how a
pedophile would see this as justification for molesting children. They were all repulsed by it.
This was on the whole an easy one to type in. A friend found me a text file from a website on "CHI" or "QI" ? Which is a common asian term for universal energy.
It began:
"The "Chi" is the primordial life force energy from which everything is created. It is the inner most essence of all beings. It is the wind of sexual ceation. With this life force acccording to ancient legends..."
You get the idea, for much of it all I had to do was cut and paste the words "Chuluaqui Quodoushka" "catalyst" for the words in the original article, and add in the section on children and the last paragraph needed a bit more work.
Finally how the "ancient legends" knew about the Galaxy is beyond me. My friend tells me the concept of a galaxy wasn't discovered until the 19th century.
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I am appalled at the last few postings. Not only are you perpetuating the sick and perverted teachings of this bunch, I am unable to understand your reasoning. Hey we don't have to go to thier site we can read it on NAFPS. Diane Harris says " it's not all that bad BUT I can see how your friend MIGHT be grossed out by SOME of it". IT'S NOT THAT BAD???? well than what is this thread all about. Women getting raped, children getting molested all in the name of traditions that DO NOT EXSIT. Give me a break.
Dianne Harris writes," I can see how a POTENTIAL molester could grasp at this and GO ON TO MOLEST CHILDREN AFTER being in the "Q".
A childmolester is not taught how to be a child molester, THEY are in this group because they aready are one. By printing this crap you have posted now tells them where to go, if they didn't already know. Any person with a conscious, morals, and a healthy way of thinking of knowing right from wrong, would NEVER be in this "Q" crap in the first place.
I endured years of incest and rape and I can tell you these sick people know what they are doing. "It IS GOOD FOR THE CHILD " tells me how very, very sick and dangerous these people are and where are the parents??? What is happening to these children is murder of the soul. They will grow up fragmented, lost and much much more.
Dianne states "its GARBAGE but I will post a bit of it" hello, hasn't this whole thread been about this??? If it is "GARBAGE" then why post it??? And now we have "where can I get this manual?" HUH haven't you heard enough on this thread?? All this explicit postings is exactly how people get pulled into this pervertions. Example" for the curious".
Linda states" this isn't a place TO MANY kids would frequent" "where can I get this manual?"
Well I am a member of this forum and have heard enough about this perverted "Q" group. I DON'T need to read the sick details. Do you not realize that by posting these details ect., you are in fact doing the very thing this "Q" group is doing?? teaching bull crap.
Al : How can I go about alerting the authorities about the using these children as simply sex objects??? Thomas
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I tihink you missed the point.
While some of us do know that these workshops are bad, none of us really had much more than third hand information.
What she is doing is showing us the ACTUAL facts.
Sure it's not pretty. I think that is her point.
Maybe now someone will get tough with these people and do something about it. They have been teaching these workshops for over a decade, and so far nothing has stopped them. There's a lot to be said for shock value.
Also you misquoted Linda, she did say "I don't think this is a place that too many kids will frequent"
but she did not ask where she can get the manual.
Dianne asked because she's taking the time to type it in and wanted to make her job easier.
With all that said, Dianne's tactics do seem to have worked.
You, yourself, ended your message with "How can I go about alerting the authorities about the using these children as simply sex objects"
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Le weaponnier:
No I have not missed the point at all!!! I stand FIRM by what I gave posted. You are right Diane stated" I just finished reading the manual" however it was you that stated "Can you post the manual? I've heard so much about it, that I'd really be interested in seeing it."
I am very much aware that this group has been around for years and in many different forms. I am also VERY aware of where I go, in the state I live in, as it relates to abuse of children, women, and men. But What about a national level???
SHOCK value, having walked my path, NOTHING SHOCKS me. Having said all that, we all have a right to our opinions. Thank you for yours.
Thomas
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One thing we all agree on, is that the group up there in Canada is a loose cannon.
I am not familiar with the system on how it works up there, but if some of these people are therapists, I would begin with going to the ones that issue out their license that are permitting this teaching. There also has to be some family laws in Canada that need to be contacted. I will research today and see who and what is up there.
At first reading I was laughing because I found it pretty amazing that people that are involved in the group have some disturbing issues. But on the other hand it does sadden me to think that there are people out there that do make it easier for those that are child molesters. It falls into the same groups as men running lodges that do the same thing to women. It goes beyond the money issue, it is a serious moral issue.
I don't think that thunderbolt was wrong in expressing how he felt about the whole issue, it is a group of some pretty sick people. I think it comes down to what is tasteful and what is not.
Perhaps some of the words could have been coded so that we as adults would know what the word is but if someone with a child in the house that has access to the computer and site, they may not pick up on some of the words used. I am only expressing an option here that would not compromise the information, yet also not offend anyone.
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Thomas, do what anyone would do when kids are in danger, get Child Services on them. Tell them this cult openly urges that kids have their first sexual experience with an adult, and thus any cult members (or even people interested in their workshops) are likely predators.
If that doesn't work, talk to the cops, to the DA, and to reporters. Get somebody to look at this group long and hard.
On another note, I think the way Diane posted the manual might have given you the wrong impression. On first reading it sounds like her own words, that she's promoting the cult. So I slightly altered her post to make it clearer she's only quoting, not approving what they do.
We quote from these frauds own words all the time here, in order to hang them by their own lies. This board does have an auto feature not allowing four letter words, but for threads like this one it's still best to keep kids away.
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I am appalled at the last few postings. Not only are you perpetuating the sick and perverted teachings of this bunch, I am unable to understand your reasoning. Hey we don't have to go to thier site we can read it on NAFPS. Diane Harris says " it's not all that bad BUT I can see how your friend MIGHT be grossed out by SOME of it". IT'S NOT THAT BAD???? well than what is this thread all about. Women getting raped, children getting molested all in the name of traditions that DO NOT EXSIT. Give me a break.
? Do you not realize that by posting these details ect., you are in fact doing the very thing this "Q" group is doing?? teaching bull crap.
You're right. So much better we bury our collective heads in the sand. Let someone else deal with it.
Let other people get conned, swindled, molested in the name of keeping this forum safe for viewing.
I'm sorry you were offended. But my purpose was to show how bad this stuff can be.
I spent time typing this stuff in, to enlighten people, not to teach them the "Q".
Thank goodness I didn't do some of the really yucky bits.
My posting certainly got a reaction from people didn't it?
Imagine if that was all across the Internet.
They don't want this stuff out there. If it was available to the public, more people would complain, charges might be filed, less would attend the classes. People like the Deer Tribe Metis might get stopped!
Maybe that's why in a lot of them you have to sign a non-disclosure agreement. (the other reason is that it makes it difficult to take them to court after you have signed one without puttting yourself liable for a court action)
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Quote:
"On another note, I think the way Diane posted the manual might have given you the wrong impression. On first reading it sounds like her own words, that she's promoting the cult. So I slightly altered her post to make it clearer she's only quoting, not approving what they do."
It took me a moment to spot the change. I agree, it does read better. I thank you.
I seem to have set a proverbial cat among the chickens here with this haven't I?
But then, I think it's an important enough topic to justify the means.
I will hold off posting any more of the manual for now, unless I get asked to continue. If I do, I shall edit the language a bit. I did consider doing so the first time, but wanted people to understand that this was just a crude manual, using slang instead of acceptable terms.
I wish someone could stop this stuff legally and save us all the effort.
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One thing we all agree on, is that the group up there in Canada is a loose cannon.
I am not familiar with the system on how it works up there, but if some of these people are therapists, I would begin with going to the ones that issue out their license that are permitting this teaching. There also has to be some family laws in Canada that need to be contacted. I will research today and see who and what is up there.
.
Did you manage to find anything out yet?
If so, did you act on it or can you post your findings here.
Thanks
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Standing firm here:
I have been busy today getting together my list of contacts concerning the "Q" group. I do need assistance from this site.
I have some links but need more.
What are the names of those we definitley know are envolved.
Where can I find in writing the abuse of these dear children.
The manual ,Diane would be very helpful ,not only the content but the author, copywrite date ect.
I know these groups are all over the world and Harley Reagan is 'THE BIG CHEESE" , but if we are going after one lets get them all.
Get me all the info I can possibly use and I have no doubts my resources will take it from there.
PLEASE HELP!!!!
Thomas
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What I am finding out is that it doesn't just include those in Canada. There's a guy in Austin TX. that goes by the name Phoenix, he is a "3rd level wiccan priest in the woodland tradition of wicca. He is called to bring the wisdom of pagan tradition from both Europe and N. America (Chluaqui-Quodoushka) to the people in this society."
There is also a International Conf. of Sacred Sexuality workshop Jan 2007 in Santa Fe, which features many speakers. The Quodoushka site lead me to that. So where does one begin? With those out there presenting the workshops or from the source of where they were taught.
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This has been quite a read!!
Thomas I have some connections in the licensing of professionals, as well as other resources so leave me a message and I'll sure walk by your side.
I'm sure all of you have wondered if any of the "Q" group is posting on this forum?? I know I sure wonder.
So there is a lot of work and research to do. May we all walk side by side forward.
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Thomas, Trish's site has a list of these groups worldwide, with all the locations and the names they use.
http://users.pandora.be/gohiyuhi/frauds/frd0011a.htm
And the scary part is, some of these groups are CHILDRENS "study groups". One of them, the Warrior Youth Dreaming Study Group, is listed here.
http://www.icssleapcalgary.org/comm.htm
The ICSS seems to be a front group for the Deer Tribe.
http://www.icssleapcalgary.org/nldmain.htm
http://www.icssleapcalgary.org/faculty.htm
For which agencies to contact in Canada, I'll leave that to our Canadian members to answer.
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Diane,
After spending countless hours researching all this, I want to ask you if you have the manual why are you not doing something about it?
First off I need the physical proof to go to the authorities. I don't have it.
You have the manual, and it was given to you by who? A acting member or former member? So who is better to do something about this than yourself.
So why should the responsibility fall on me when it is you who has started this thread and it is you that has the manual, not me.
You know much more about this group than I will ever be able to find through research.
So what I want to know are you are member of this group and are you in here as a guest to obtain any knowledge of what some of the members may know about this group? Because that is what I am getting from this side of the room. For all the postings you have made, it would make sense to me that you would be a member in here and not a guest. Are you not trying to expose these people ?
Please explain to me so I don't misunderstand what you are saying and doing.
It takes physical proof before the authorities will touch anything such as this, heresay won't cut it.
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Diane,
After spending countless hours researching all this, I want to ask you if you have the manual why are you not doing something about it?
First off I need the physical proof to go to the authorities. I don't have it.
You have the manual, and it was given to you by who? A acting member or former member? So who is better to do something about this than yourself.
So why should the responsibility fall on me when it is you who has started this thread and it is you that has the manual, not me.
You know much more about this group than I will ever be able to find through research.
So what I want to know are you are member of this group and are you in here as a guest to obtain any knowledge of what some of the members may know about this group? Because that is what I am getting from this side of the room. For all the postings you have made, it would make sense to me that you would be a member in here and not a guest. Are you not trying to expose these people ?
Please explain to me so I don't misunderstand what you are saying and doing.
It takes physical proof before the authorities will touch anything such as this, heresay won't cut it.
Here's a website I think you can order it on CD or DVD....
https://ssl113.alentus.com/visionaryaudiovideo/vis-cart-item.asp?id=711
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Thomas, Trish's site has a list of these groups worldwide, with all the locations and the names they use.
http://users.pandora.be/gohiyuhi/frauds/frd0011a.htm
And the scary part is, some of these groups are CHILDRENS "study groups". One of them, the Warrior Youth Dreaming Study Group, is listed here.
http://www.icssleapcalgary.org/comm.htm
The ICSS seems to be a front group for the Deer Tribe.
http://www.icssleapcalgary.org/nldmain.htm
http://www.icssleapcalgary.org/faculty.htm
For which agencies to contact in Canada, I'll leave that to our Canadian members to answer.
ICSS also is in Toronto
http://www.icss.org/home.htm
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Le Weaponier,
I believe I was addressing a question to Diane. So what is your point here as far as giving me a site to order the manual? That I should spend good money on some material, that still will not get me past square one with evidence. That has to come from active or former members which I am not, are you?
Why are you not registered and with all your posts I believe you are beyond a guest, it's like someone who comes to your home, after awhile they know where the refrigerator is at?
So what is your solution to this problem? And what are you doing about it?
One thing I could do is register for the conference next year and attend it in Santa Fe. Then hopefully if I am lucky become a member, go through the motions then I would have something to go on. But a manual in itself is not going to get the attention of authorities, and the fact I live in the states and not Canada makes the case a little harder for me to sell to the authorities. Don't just point your fingers to look here, draw the map out.
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I made a mistake.
You had typed to Dianne:
"First off I need the physical proof to go to the authorities. I don't have it."
So with that in mind I showed you a link to get physical proof.
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That is not proof of the law being broken. Authorities will not touch that. The only thing proven is yes it is fraud against native culture, however it does not show proof of any laws broken according to family laws. But I will attempt to contact Staphanie Wadell and discuss her forum that she teaches.
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Thanks all for all these sites and they are useful only as to the content... I NEED EVIDENCE. I believe Diane Harris has it after all she said her "friends" gave it to her, so as it may be a wrong assumption
, I will choose to make it anyway. These "FRIENDS" who gave you,Diane, the manual apparently has first hand knowledge HEY?? You seem to have a lot of knowledge and up to date with this "Q" group.
If you know someone personaly who are involved with this sick bunch and molesting children, ect. than by law you are required to report it, or morally you are as quilty as they are.
Pick up the phone , call the child protection services and they have to by law investigate within 24 hrs. Give them names ect. Now thats here in the StatesI am not sure of the laws in Canada. Any one there know? YOU MUST HAVE FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE, PICTURES, VIDEOS ECT........
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Diane,
After spending countless hours researching all this, I want to ask you if you have the manual why are you not doing something about it?
First off I need the physical proof to go to the authorities. I don't have it.
You have the manual, and it was given to you by who? A acting member or former member? So who is better to do something about this than yourself.
So why should the responsibility fall on me when it is you who has started this thread and it is you that has the manual, not me.
You know much more about this group than I will ever be able to find through research.
So what I want to know are you are member of this group and are you in here as a guest to obtain any knowledge of what some of the members may know about this group? Because that is what I am getting from this side of the room. For all the postings you have made, it would make sense to me that you would be a member in here and not a guest. Are you not trying to expose these people ?
Please explain to me so I don't misunderstand what you are saying and doing.
It takes physical proof before the authorities will touch anything such as this, heresay won't cut it.
Raven,
As much as I would like to be able to do something myself, in my small town, I cannot. Even if I could, I am sorry, but I am not confident enough in myself to do this.
The manual was loaned to me on condition that I personally do not do anything with it. My friend told me he's afraid that it would come back on him as he had to sign a non-disclosure agreement.
I am not a member of those people and I wouldn't want to be. Much of what I have found, I have researched on the Internet. My friend only pointed me in the right directions. My goal here is to open others to the information and let nature take it's course. If that's not enough, then so be it.
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Thanks all for all these sites and they are useful only as to the content... I NEED EVIDENCE. I believe Diane Harris has it after all she said her "friends" gave it to her, so as it may be a wrong assumption
, I will choose to make it anyway. These "FRIENDS" who gave you,Diane, the manual apparently has first hand knowledge HEY?? You seem to have a lot of knowledge and up to date with this "Q" group.
If you know someone personaly who are involved with this sick bunch and molesting children, ect. than by law you are required to report it, or morally you are as quilty as they are.
Pick up the phone , call the child protection services and they have to by law investigate within 24 hrs. Give them names ect. Now thats here in the StatesI am not sure of the laws in Canada. Any one there know? ? YOU MUST HAVE FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE, PICTURES, VIDEOS ECT........
I know someone who was involved with them but is no more. I have no direct knowledge of them molesting anyone other than the implications in the manuals. I was lent the manual by someone who had a copy. He said he had to sign a non-disclosure agreement and doesn't want that used against him. What his relationship to the group was is something I don't know and don't want to know for his sake.
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Standing firm here:
I have been busy today getting together my list of contacts concerning the "Q" group. I do need assistance from this site.
I have some links but need more.
What are the names of those we definitley know are envolved.
Where can I find in writing the abuse of these dear children.
The manual ,Diane would be very helpful ,not only the content but the author, copywrite date ect.
I know these groups are all over the world and Harley Reagan is 'THE BIG CHEESE" , but if we are going after one lets get them all.
Get me all the info I can possibly use and I have no doubts my resources will take it from there.
PLEASE HELP!!!!
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Thomas
The author of the Manual I believe is Harley Reagan, but I could be wrong. There is no author credit or copyright date that I can see.
There are included articles with it.
They are credited as cf Ray Stubbs, "Tantric Massage" and the teachings of SwiftDeer in Jamaica 1993
and "Tribal Wisdom, an Interview with Harley 'Swifdeer' Reagan" by Richard Peacock
I do not know if this is a complte manual or not.
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Maybe I am looking at this all wrong, let's see Diane has the manual and a friend that was involved in this group, but is too afraid to speak up because she lives in a small town. Well there is a D.A. there am I right? So what is Raven suppose to do with just say a manual?
So what is the problem with going to the DA?
If you have that much fear, then even more so to contact them (DA) Well that's my opinion.
I think the solution is in front of your nose.
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Some statements are just not adding up here:
Please enlighten me.
Diane states:"I heard that these people have drugged women and had sex with them without thier knowledge" Who is the source you heard this from and perhaps they can be of help. I think thats called "date Rape" ecstacy.
Le Weaponnier states:" I've heard of this before too, it's the old "internal massage gag" and than he went on to explain what it ment. So Where did you here this, what is interesting is I've been around for quite a few years and heard a lot of things but never "internal massage gag"???? I would say you are very up to date on these things. Any names you can share??? post me a private message.
Diane states:" I know someone who was involved with them, but no more." How about these folks , Diane. And this friend that signed a non-disclosure agreement is afraid of retaliation. Can you explain more about the type of retaliation. He told you he didn't want that used against him, is he still a part of this sick bunch??? Many things can be done without given a name. It doesn't matter where you live, it's amazing what you can do on a computer hey???
I do agree Harley Reagan is going to be hard to stop, and yes there is a possibility of repercussion. I for one am Cherokee and a warrior and I will not be intimidated by these scum bags.
Sarah how about sending me a private message from this board and letting me know who did these things to you. It is not traceable. No one needs to know who e mailed me anything. So having said all that lets put our moccasins where our mouth is.
Remember Raven??? When we went after the CKY "Cherokees of Kentucky, go read the thread she was intimidated by a law suit.ROFLMAO. These people are notorious at intimidations, "BLOWING WIND".
-
Diane, as far as those no-disclosure agreements, that's a common tactic used by dangerous cults. But they never work. Courts do not allow those agreements to hide evidence of a crime, esp ones as serious as abusing children or drugging and raping women.
Those agreements did not protect the Moonies, Scientologists, Children of God, or Michael Jackson. No reason they would protect H Reagan or his inner circle.
My thanks to Thomas for being so willing to take this on. But still be careful. This is a heavily armed cult, don't forget.
-
Al, Thanks so much for your concerns.
Yes Harley Reagan is a very dangerous man. The fact that he is heavly armed says a lot in itself and all the "goones" around him sounds a loud message.
It would be helpful to have the info. in the order as to how it all started. I am unable to think of the word I want to use but starting with Harley unless there was someone above him on down to the "Q" groups..... Thats as clear as I can make it.
Thanks for all the responses and help as to directions to go... I KEEP THINKING OF THE CHILDREN. I have emailed John Walsh and waiting to hear back from him. The fact they are saying this is Cherokee is another avenue that can be gone down... Thomas
-
Diane, as far as those no-disclosure agreements, that's a common tactic used by dangerous cults. But they never work. Courts do not allow those agreements to hide evidence of a crime, esp ones as serious as abusing children or drugging and raping women.
Those agreements did not protect the Moonies, Scientologists, Children of God, or Michael Jackson. No reason they would protect H Reagan or his inner circle.
My thanks to Thomas for being so willing to take this on. But still be careful. This is a heavily armed cult, don't forget.
The Moonies, M.J. and th others all have one thing that the average Joe does not. MONEY
Most cannot afford to go into court. I agree you're probably right that non-disclosure agreement is not going to hold up. However, just to get into a court of law would be beyond most people's assets. I cannot afford to do it, neither can my friend.
I'm also getting a little tired of being pressured by some of the people here. I am trying to help out yet some people seem to be getting at me for it.
I agree it's a serious issue. But it's beyond what I can handle.
-
The problem with this is the problem is much more complexed. What you have behind these teachings, is a dangerous man named Harley Reagan. What puzzles me, is here you have this man that is obvious of breaking laws, not just state but I am sure federal, yet the FBI for instance doesn't touch the man. However they go after smaller group such as David Koresh's.
Have read a lot on Harley what a colorful human being, wonder how much of his life is really the truth and how much of it is fabricated.
It doesn't take money from your pockets if you have evidence that pertains to a state or federal offense. That is what the tax payers monies are for.
So my question is why hasn't the government touch this guy?
If the man harbors such a heavy weapon arson where's the ATF or the FBI?
From all the stories about him, I would think that he would be as dangerous as any foreign terrorists, and the government isn't messing around there, so where is the difference?
-
Got sent some information on the Deer Tribe in Canada. So here, exposed to world, are some of their claims about their "warrior training" which sound remarkably like militia movement with pseudo Indian touches thrown in, ripoffs from Castaneda, Heywhatever Storm, and pop psychology and European mysticism to top it off.
----------------------
MONTHLY UPDATE: May/June 2008
From the Medicine Director…
Greetings from the Mother lodge. I am always glad when Sundance time
comes around. We have for a few months now been in preparation. Taking
care for the expected as well as the unexpected challenges that always
comes along with Sundance.
I hope that this email finds you preparing for Sundance as well and
that I will see you there. The Sundance is the biggest ceremony of the
year and definitely a time to gain your vision, dance for the energy
for your Study Group or Lodge for the next year and a time to reconnect
with old and new friends and family.
We have two Sundances, it is not too late to sign up for one of them.
If you cannot spend the entire time there, come for a couple of days
and help out.
If you are not able to attend the Sundance, write your prayers on a
strip of cloth and send it with someone who is coming so they may dance
it for you to the tree. Through??? the One to the Many and Many back to
the One??? law all will be done.
Have a great summer.
MEDICINE UPDATE
10 MOVERS
When doing conjuring, there has been some confusion about when to name
the 10 Movers. Here is the complete answer from our Pipe Chief, Dianne
Nightbird.
It is recommended that the apprentice respectfully name the 10 Movers
before the Standard Conjuring. For example when you say, “As my teacher
has taught me and his/her teacher before him/her, I name the 10 Movers
- Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars….etc.??? This makes it a fluid energy for
any additional conjuring that might take place. If you name the 10
Movers at this point you do not repeat it when you do the remaining
conjuring.
If the apprentice does not name the 10 Movers before the Standard
Conjuring it does not make it wrong. However it should then be done
before any special conjuring (i.e. a set) is done.
How is it that naming the 10 movers is an essential detail?
It is essential because it speaks to Spirit that we humans understand
the respectful communication to and with the 10 movers. It indicates
that the Pipe Person is educated to this spiritual etiquette.
CORRECTION ON THE DREAM WHEEL TEACHING:
In the last Monthly Update this wheel was reported incorrectly. Thank
you to those who wrote to me and here is the corrected wheel.
Personal Dream- south
Sacred Dream - north
Collective Dream - west
Planetary Dream - east
Dream of the Void - All 144 planets with human life
LADDER OF MATURATIONAL DEVELOPMENT
There is a rumor circulating that when you are in Dharma, you no longer
need the Maturational Development Wheel:
A note From the Nagual:
“The ladder of maturation continues until you climb into the heavens
and become god!
It’s necessary for evolution (and enlightenment)???
THE 3RD GATEWAY SCROLL
This scroll is your diploma for completing the first 3 gateways. It is
a pictorial depiction of the ceremonies that demonstrates your
accomplishment.
You may choose to use the scroll as your pipe blanket. Some Apprentice
Guides choose to put it out when smoking the pipe with a new
apprentice, to describe the gateway process.
The scroll is made of fur or leather, any animal hide or leather of
your preference. It is often made of otter, badger, or beaver hide. It
should be large enough for the sigils to be painted on it, yet not too
large if you plan to travel with it (e.g., hides like bear or elk are
very large).
CHANGE IS INEVITABLE
5 TH GATEWAY 7 DEGREE EAST CEREMONY - SNAKE MEDICINE TRAINING:
If you have a 5th Gateway Guidebook and/or 5th Gateway DC Guidebook,
please change the following information on page 5-7:9 Snake Medicine
Training:
The Description of Ceremony should be changed to say:
Snake medicine training is utilizing teachings, ceremonies, and
assignments that help you to develop your ability to source the force
of the Everything. It includes learning all the acts and arts of
sorcery. All snake medicine training must be done under the direction
of the Naqual.
In other words, the reference to the Forbidden Book of Knowledge and
the Sorcery Sit Down Teachings is deleted.
The teachings on the Forbidden Book and Sorcery Sit Down have been
moved out of the 5th Gateway and into the 6th Gateway. They will be in
the Gold Lodge curriculum, not Alpha White Lodge from here on.
CLARAIFICATION ON EAGLE DANCES WITHIN THE GATEWAY PROCESS:
The intent of the first four dances is to help you come into more
balanced shields and align with the seasons and cycles of GM Earth and
Sister Moon. The summer solstice, for example, launches you out into
your vision. Eagle Dances are part of the progress of the shield’s
maturity.
For some time there has been much confusion about what counts as an
Eagle Dance for the Gateway Process. There are many variations of what
can be counted as an Eagle Dance. In my presentation of this to the
Lineage members, I could site four off hand.
So with the above understanding of the intent of Eagle Dances, here is
the protocol about what can count as an Eagle Dance for the Third
Gateway:
There are four Eagle Dances (4) in total:
3 must be done in a group setting.
1 can be done solo
Any one of the four can be done at night to a fire
You must dance – dog soldiering, drumming and singing will not count as
an Eagle Dance for the Gateway Process.
This protocol for Eagle Dances will start now. If you have already done
Eagle Dances where you were a drummer or singer, they are allowed to
stand.
NOTEWORTHY NEWS
CRYSTAL SKULLS SALE
In a past Monthly Update I noted the people who were selling Crystal
Skulls. This is to let you know that in Canada Barbara Brachi can also
be added to this list.
Sempre Famiglia
Mary Flaming Crystal Mirror
------------------------------
From: Harley Swiftdeer Reagan <gunnietop@cox.net>
To: Brian obrecht <brian@outer-edge.com>; Anthony Jordan <anthonyjordan91@gmail.com>; Lou Brunato <snowbeardreaming@rogers.com>; John Kent <johnkent@cox.net>; John Ardagh <thunderwolf@sympatico.ca>; Axel Schemuth <axel.schemuth@gmx.de>; Jeff Hohensee <jhohensee@earthlink.net>; Martin Staaf <liquid@interchill.com>; John E Kent <johnkent2@cox.net>
Cc: Medicine Director <medicinedirector@dtmms.org>; Janneke Koole <jmkoole@earthlink.net>; Harley Swiftdeer Reagan <gunnietop@cox.net>
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 7:20:53 PM
Subject: Eagle Warrior Society
Dear Brothers,
SwiftDeer is seeking to create a Gathering Together Circle of potential
Eagle Warrior Individuals and Clans
Please consider the following date, as he currently has this full week
available: 24-30 August 2009
The training would be 70% hands on Black Lodge Warrior training development
and 30% work with bundles and the patriarchy shield.
3rd gateway Firearms training is prerequisite, as this is to include
intermediate/semi advanced firearms training.
It will have close combat fighting arts, bladed throwing arts, and the
following armed and unarmed self-defense training:
Chulua Stick (Yawara)
Jo (Short staff)
Bo (Long Staff)
Spear/Lance
Darts, Stars, knives, tomahawks (close quarter and throwing)
Projectile weapons (bows & arrows, crossbow, firearms)
Firearms training will include long guns (minor and major battle rifles,
from .223 cal and up, pistol caliber carbines) and handguns (.38 special and
up), with Force on Force Semunitions with Airsoft pistols.
The week would begin with a Warrior's Sweat, and end with a Warrior's Sweat
and feast.
The fee would be $800. We would need a minimum of 20 brothers. It would be
open to anyone interested in the Eagle Warrior Society, and dedicated to the
brotherhood.
Please respond regarding your availability as soon as possible, as your
ability to participate is important to setting this date.
Thunder Strikes
------------------------------
From: Harley Swiftdeer Reagan <gunnietop@cox.net>
Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 14:27:20 -0700
To: Harley Swiftdeer Reagan <gunnietop@cox.net>
Conversation: Brotherhood
Subject: Brotherhood
Hello Brothers,
I am writing this letter to introduce myself to you in my new role with the Deer Tribe.
I have been given the task of establishing and leading the tribal Brotherhood Society.
Until now we have not had a unifying society to link all the various brotherhoods together, therefore one of my initial tasks will be to contact each of the existing brotherhood circles throughout the Deer Tribe to establish and maintain an open channel of communication.
Both Swiftdeer and I agree it is essential that, as the men of this path continue to grow and heal, we must be current with the direction that our masculine collective is moving in.
This will allow us to more effectively support men with their current needs. I am delighted to take on this new role and I am very excited for the brotherhood as we collectively move forward into the 5th world.
In beauty,
Lou Brunato
Snow Bear Dreaming
snowbeardreaming@rogers.com
-
Lou Brunato AKA Snow Bear Dreaming, a would be artist in addition to a cult leader.
http://nagualartist.com/about%20the%20artist.html
The whole rogue's gallery of Deer Tribe cult leaders in Canada.
-------------------
http://www.blacklightning.on.ca/Leaders/leaders.html
John Dowden Ardagh "Thunderwolf" is the Leader of Black Lightning Lodge, and leads the Brotherhood and the Warrior Clan, as well as teaching first year of the ICSS Red Lodge Longhouse Program. John has been studying the Sweet Medicine Sundance Path for 13 years and is a 4th gateway apprentice. He is a psychotherapist and educator, and has studied many of the world's great spiritual disciplines including Zen Buddhism, martial arts, yoga,meditation, and shamanism. Before training as a psychotherapist, John spent many years as a professional musician.
Lou Brunato "Snow Bear Dreaming" is an assistant with the Brotherhood, co-leader of the Fire Clan, and is a teaching assistant with the ICSS Red Lodge Longhouse Program. Lou has been studying the Sweet Medicine Sundance Path for 4 years, and is a 4th gateway apprentice. He is a pipemaker and artist who works at home in order to be a stay-at-home father to his children, and he holds a green belt in Kung Fu.
Anita Shack "Twin Snakes Dreamer" is the leader of the Healing Team, and is a 4th gateway apprentice on the Sweet Medicine Sundance Path. Anita is a healer and teacher by profession, practicing chiropractic, acupuncture, and craniosacral therapies, and leading lecture workshops on a variety of health related topics. She is the director of Health Focus, an alternative health care centre.
Sue Burgon "Crystal Well Woman" is the Drum Chief of the Lodge, and is a 4th gateway apprentice on the Sweet Medicine Sundance Path. Sue is a psychotherapist in private practice, trained in Psychodramatic Bodywork, and she has worked in the addictions field for the past seven years.
Raven Brunato "Raven's Moonlight" is the leader of the Children's Lodge, and has been studying the Sweet Medicine Sundance Path for three years. Raven is an active member of the Drum Teams and the Sisterhood, and is in the 3rd year of the ICSS Red Lodge Longhouse Program. She works and has diplomas in the fields of aromatherapy, shiatsu, and custom clothing design, is certified in One Brain and Advanced One Brain therapies, and has studied guided meditation.
Kathleen Roerick "Dancing Spider Woman" is the leader of the Sisterhood, and has been studying the Sweet Medicine Sundance Path for eight years. Kathleen is active on the Healing Team, and is a teaching assistant with the ICSS Red Lodge Longhouse Programme. She has worked with children for twenty years, the past ten as the Director of the Waterfront Montessori School on Toronto Island.
-------------------------
ICSS is also one of theirs.
http://www.icss.org/html/programs_katana.html
The Katana Edge Leadership Program is designed for apprentices who have completed their major ceremonies in the first three gateways of the Sweet Medicine SunDance Path and are committed to becoming leaders on this path. We offer training for Study Group Leaders, Study Group Lodge Leaders, Lodge Leaders, Roadpersons as well as Pipe and Sweat Lodge Training.
"In this training I developed my ability to lead others. More importantly, I discovered how to lead myself into excellence and my highest potential – a precious gift indeed. The facilitators are models of leadership. This is an opportunity not to be missed.???
- Jan Holmes, editor, Deer Tracks
"The training was one of the most powerful experiences I have had – both with myself and with others. The level of honesty and integrity displayed by our leaders, and demanded of the participants, enabled me to see my strengths and weaknesses as a leader, an apprentice and a person. I developed profound respect for what leadership means within the Sweet Medicine SunDance path.???
- Linda Morning Flower
"This program is the best way to get into the driver's seat and take leadership of your own life.???
- Lou Brunato, Road person in training
-
More I've been sent, emails that show how the Deer Tribe scams its followers. They remind me more and more of Scientology, "buy your way into enlightenment."
Good to know there are people within their circles fed up enough to expose what the "tribe" is up to. Some amusing things:
The "Gus Grey Mountain" they claim is their "nagual" only shows up online as a name they took from a book with quotes from Natives.
Their "warrior training" includes go cart racing.
And they are selling crystal skulls.
************************
Brothers,
Here is some more history, based on questions we’ve received.
It has been in existence since the 2nd Cycle of the Elders Council. When that was is hard to say, as the history is in the NW shield, and SwiftDeer does not have access to it. Here is some information to help you imagine how long ago it was:
The current Naqual of the Council of Elders, Gus Grey Mountain is the 14th Naqual of the 22nd cycle. Each cycle comprises 20 Naquals. We can guess that the 1st Cycle of the Council of Elders initiated in 2054 BC, when the Rattlesnake School of Turtle Island first gathered. It’s hard to say exactly when the 2nd cycle began, as we don’t know how long each of the previous 20 Naquals may have held their positions.
The 3rd Dimensional Eagle Warrior Society is equivalent to Night Warriors in the 5th Dimension. They realized that they could be more effective in the the war against evil in the dream time if they were warriors in the 3rd dimension.
You can see evidence of the Eagle Warrior Society in pictures available. One such image is on the cover of the Green Manual. If you google “Eagle Warrior??? in the images sections, you’ll find all kinds of references. There are mentions of the EWS in books by Hyemeyohsts Storm’s & Peter J Powell, Book of Mormon, Popol Vuh Codexes, and you see images of them in the Mayan book of life cards (numbers listed in the previous email below).
Before the Eagle Warrior Society could be brought into the patriarchy of this metis path, we needed to complete the following:
Finish the first wave of the Night of the Snake
Complete the 25th SunDance
Heal the collective Karma between the European Nations and Turtle Island (the last Deer Tracks has more about this)
Put Black Lodge back into its proper place as part of this warriors path
Elizabeth on behalf of Thunder Strikes
On 4/2/08 5:05 PM, "Harley Swiftdeer Reagan" <gunnietop@cox.net> wrote:
The Eagle Warrior Society is one of 3 societies that have exclusive membership. The other 2 are Band of Sorcerers and Lodge of Amenti. The Eagle Warrior Society is more open.
The primary responsibility of the Eagle Warrior is to protect, provide and seed the preservation of the lineage of this path for all metis, and literally to be the dog soldier/law dog guardians of the children, women and elders, except those women that are called Bee Warrioresses. One must be able to fight, especially with the ancient weapons, because of the responsibility to protect the children, women & elders. You must be way ahead in the Black Lodge, compared to the Gateway process. These brothers are Warriors first, Medicine Apprentices 2nd. Your night warrior mantles are an important part of this. Dedication to the Brotherhood is essential.
There are 4 levels of classification:
Inquisitive Seeker (7 card)
Initiated Apprentice (5 card)
Mason (i.e., grand architect, 9 card)
Master Mason (11 card); these are the leaders, of which there are 30 degrees.
At this point, all brothers are at level 1 as we are in the formational steps of the Eagle Warrior Society. Any male apprentice can choose to make the commitment at level one, while we work on opening the society.
When a clan of brothers has personal bundles, clan bundles, name and shield, they are a clan trying to move to level 2, the initiated apprentice.
The next level is an individual movement. To go to level 3, you must:
Have completed 5th Gateway Black Lodge Requirements
Have received Brown Belt 1st grade (Ikkyu), and preferably the Black Belt 1st degree (ShoDan) in the Martial Arts
Be able to work with traditional weapons, including throwing at the ‘adept’ level. The level of skill in these weapons is ranked from lowest to highest as follows: Initiate, Trainee, Adept, Eagle Warrior. The Adept level of throwing arts is indicated by the following skill:
Bow & Arrow- can hit 7 arrows inside a 10??? ring at 25 yards.
Lance & Spear- can throw 7 inside a 10??? ring at 15 yards.
Knife & Tomahawk- can hit inside a 5??? ring at 25 feet.
Have Pipe Carrier Mantle
Have Fire Chief Mantle
Have completed 3rd Gateway
At level 3, you make the Eagle Warrior Society Vow (Swift is not speaking of this at this time). One is not able to use the name and get Eagle Warrior Society Ring until you have completed the 5th Gateway, including the Black Belt 1st degree with all credentials.
SwiftDeer recommends the following reading: Unintended Consequences by John Ross, and Patriots by James Wesley, Rawles.
from Thunder Strikes
---------------------------------------------------
Hi Lou
Your understanding is accurate. “Tribal??? brotherhood indicates (As swift says) the whole enchilada. In other words, you can travel with respect to sharing brotherhood teachings.
Elizabeth for SwiftDeer
On 6/11/08 6:57 AM, "snowbeardreaming@rogers.com" <snowbeardreaming@rogers.com> wrote:
hi swift, i just received this letter from mary and i need some clarity.
when i checked back to my notes from our meeting regarding my leadership of the tribal brotherhood, i understood that as the leader of the tribal brotherhood, i was granted permission to work with any or all brotherhood circles or mens circles throughout the deer tribe including teaching from the 14 shield and offering sweatlodges. meaning that i am authorized to travel and work with groups wherever there is a need and i am called to go and also to be a resource and assist any existing brotherhood or mens group within the tribe.
what is not clearly stated in her letter is my authorization to do this work throughout the deer tribe and not only within my immediate brotherhood circle that i lead.
Lou Brunato
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Mary Minor <medicinedirector@dtmms.org>
To: Barbara Brachi <colibri@tcn.net>
Cc: Lou Brunato <snowbeardreaming@rogers.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 8:44:51 PM
Subject: RE: Lou Brunato
Dear Barbara
This is to inform you that Lou Brunato an apprentice in your area has
been given permission by Swift Deer to do special medicine work. I will
quote from the form that I received from Swift Deer's Office.
"Authorization to establish and lead the Tribal Brotherhood Society,
including the specialization of Sweat Lodg level necessary to run
Brotherhood Sweats. This gives Lou the ability to do Brotherhood work
that might otherwise be considered A Road Team Level".
When I asked Swift for clarification, he said that when Lou is doing
Brotherhood sweats, he has permission to pull a wheel from the
brotherhood teachings (14 shield) and teach it. This is what is meant
by "Might otherwise be considered A Road Team Level". This only refers
to the work Lou is doing with the Brotherhood and does not carry over
to A Road Work in general.
If you have any questions, please let me know.
Sincerely,
Mary
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fire Mountain Brotherhood,
The meeting on Friday was attended by 14 men. It was a meeting with lots of
interesting discussion and the future of the group was the main topic of
conversation. After a lively and engaging discussion we were mostly in
agreement about the following items:
General Intent: To come together and connect as men.
Substance: To drum, share and do ceremony.
Meetings: Every 6 to 8 weeks.
Events for the future: Go Kart racing and/or shooting. Learning to use
traditional bow and arrows.
Next Meeting: The consensus was that we take an entire day for our next get
together. The activity we would like to do is to go to the Six Nations
reserve near Brantford and learn to use the traditional bow and arrow.
After this we would continue on for a communal meal and then some meeting
time. Jack Eva has made contact with the man would makes and teaches about
the bow. He will confirm with Jack if he is free on July 5 do work with us
in about one weeks time. If this doesn't work then we will chose another
activity.
Would you please reply to this email when you get it and let me know if you
will be attending the July 5 meeting.
Ideas for future: Fire Dance as done in Europe, not a Fire Eagle Dance
Doing the Night Warrior Ceremony
Creating the Brotherhood Bundle
Creating Rites of Passage specifically for men
Ceremony
I look forward to seeing you in July.
In Beauty,
John
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
MONTHLY UPDATE: March/April 2008
From the Medicine Director…
Greetings from the Mother lodge. This is sure an intense time – in many
arenas and on many levels. So far this year we have launched the Wheel
Walker Program, revamped the Red Lodge Program, completed the first
round of training for Rites of Passage and made other policy changes
for the Pipe Teachers. This is to name just a few things that have been
going on since January 2008. Now we are gearing up for the Sundance.
Take some time to feed your hungers (All of them), get in touch with
family and just be darn good to yourself.
That’s it from where I sit.
Mary
MEDICINE UPDATE
1. SACRED PIPE CARRIERS NEW POLICY: SPC TEACHING RIDER.
For the purpose of helping Sacred Pipe Carriers handle a large influx
of Pipe students the Sacred Pipe Carrier Teaching Rider has been
adopted as a new policy. It is the focus of the Hereditary Lineage
Leaders to ease this influx of Pipe students and keep a high level of
Excellence at the same time.
The Sacred Pipe Carrier Teaching Rider is permission granted by the
Hereditary Lineage Leaders to Sacred Pipe Carriers who qualify to be
able to teach the Ways of the Pipe to their Pipe students in a small
group setting. This rider covers an SPC working with Pipe students at
the Pipe Holder and Pipe Carrier Level only up to and including the
Pipe Carrier test.
If you have been a Sacred Pipe Carrier for more then 3 years and would
like to apply for this Teaching Rider, email me for an application.
2. OLD ORDER FORMS
Circulating out there in some places are old order forms that have the
Gateway Guidebooks for sale. The Deer Tribe does not charge apprentices
for Gateway Guidebooks. However the 3rd Gateway Scroll made on an
animal hide is the responsibility of the apprentice to make and get
signed by Swift Deer.
3. A TEACHING ON THE 3rd GATEWAY SCROLL
This scroll is your diploma for completing the first 3 gateways. It is
a pictorial depiction of the ceremonies that demonstrates your
accomplishment.
You may choose to use the scroll as your pipe blanket. Some Apprentice
Guides choose to put it out when smoking the pipe with a new
apprentice, to describe the gateway process.
The scroll is made of fur or leather, any animal hide or leather of
your preference. It is often made of otter, badger, or beaver hide. It
should be large enough for the sigils to be painted on it, yet not too
large if you plan to travel with it (e.g., hides like bear or elk are
very large). Email DTMMS for a copy of the pictures for the scroll.
4. EVER WANT TO KNOW THE DIRECTIONS OF THE DREAM WHEEL?
Personal Dream - South
Sacred Dream – North
Collective Dream – West
Planetary Dream – East
Dream of the Void - All 144 planets with human life
5. FIRING A MESA: (SPC LEVEL and Above)
When doing mesa workings there is a proper way to fire the mesa. Other
than simple personal mesas, all mesas should be fired to activate them.
All Gateway Ceremonies that have mesas should for sure be fired! If you
do not have a copy of the Lightning Conjuring for firing mesa’s, please
email me.
CHANGE IS INEVITABLE
6. SKULL PROTOCOL CHANGES
CRYSTAL SKULL PROGRAMING:
NOTICE FROM THUNDER STRIKES: TO ALL LEADERS. PLEASE INFORM YOUR
APPRENTICES:
If you are planning to purchase a skull as a monitor there are certain
specifications that need to be in place. The crystal needs to be cut at
a C-Axis and the carving needs to be in human skull proportions.
Usually we use one specific carver (who has been carefully instructed)
who carves the crystal skulls used as monitors. You can get these
skulls from this carver from several people, some of them being Batty
Gold or Sweet Medicine Shoppe in Arizona.
Please be aware that skulls purchased from other carvers often do not
work as monitors. They might look very artistic or beautiful however
more often than not, they do not have the right human proportions and
are not cut at a C-Axis and therefore cannot hold programming over
time.
Procedures to have your skull programmed:
1. Arrange to have the skull/monitor Blessed and Awakened before you
have it programmed.
2. Contact Thunder Strikes Office to arrange delivery and pick up of
your skull/monitor.
3. The fee to program your crystal skull is $25.00 and a tobacco gift.
4. Mark your skull and its container with your name before you deliver
your skull/monitor.
If you have a skull/monitor from our special carver the programming
takes around 24 hours – if you have a skull from another carver the
programming might not work at all or can take 72 hours and the
programming usually does not hold for any length of time.
Please invest the time and energy to purchase a crystal skull carved
correctly. This might be a little more costly upfront- however it will
assure that the programming will hold and the apprentice will have a
reliable monitor.
Sempre Famiglia
Mary Flaming Crystal Mirror
-
On 4/2/08 5:05 PM, "Harley Swiftdeer Reagan" <gunnietop@cox.net> wrote:
The Eagle Warrior Society is one of 3 societies that have exclusive membership. The other 2 are Band of Sorcerers and Lodge of Amenti. The Eagle Warrior Society is more open.
The primary responsibility of the Eagle Warrior is to protect, provide and seed the preservation of the lineage of this path for all metis, and literally to be the dog soldier/law dog guardians of the children, women and elders, except those women that are called Bee Warrioresses.
Woah. Now he's claiming the right to make people Dog Soldiers? For a fee...
Wow.
-
Mary Flaming Crystal Mirror
OMG!! Did she get this name from the teinkie name generator??
-
Yet more emails from within the Deer Tribe's circles. Hopefully we'll start to see even more rifts among them, esp since they drive down their profit margin.
*************************
Hello Wheel Walkers!
It is just days before our annual SunDance and we are in a flurry of preparations. I know some of you may already be on your way to join us. It is an exciting time - our 26th Dance here in Arizona and the 16th Dance in Sweden. Know that we will be dancing for all Wheel Walkers at both dances - so send in your prayers and keep your intending strong!
I have heard from several of you that you are inspired, motivated and already preparing introductory evenings to prompt your circles of influence into enrolling for your first Wheel Walker events! This is very exciting.
Of course, you are not authorized to go out until we have the agreement with the Deer Tribe signed and your certificate in hand. We have taken your thoughtful comments on the agreement to heart and are re-drafting it to reflect this input. Given the fact that the office closes for SunDance, the Deer Tribe should have this contract in your email box by July 15th. You can then print it out and mail in a hard copy which the Deer Tribe will return to you signed with your certificate.
Shortly after the session, we realized that the list of A-Roadpersons was not included in your list of SMSD Leadership. Here it is for you to add to your files.
I had promised myself that I would send you a note before leaving for the Dance and so here it is! Attached you will find a copy of my notes from SwiftDeer's teachings. I send them to you as a SunDance gift :-)
In all the flurry of the closing day, we did not share with you the plans and opportunity for Part III. Please see the attached file
for the initial notes about this next level of training. We already have one Wheel Walker signed up for it! Flying on your Own will be launched after the summer. We will send you more information later this summer.
Many blessings to each of you. It is with great joy that we dance this dream of "walking the wheels out into the world"!
Janneke
for the Wheel Walking Team
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Lou Brunato,
Thank you for your order.
Order Receipt:
Order ID: 127444498
Date: Thu Apr 03 17:53:31 -0400 2008
Payment Type: Visa
Order Status: Accepted
Part II: Seven Steps to Successful Wheel Walking - May 29-June 2, 2008
$750.00 X 1 = $750.00
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Product Total $750.00
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Grand Total $750.00
Name: Lou Brunato
Company:
Email: snowbeardreaming@rogers.com
Thank you again for your order. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us using the information below. If you
contact us regarding this order, please quote your Order ID # 127444498
Deer Tribe Metis Medicine Society
480-443-3851
busadmin@dtmms.org
www.dtmms.org
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Brothers,
I am writing this letter to introduce myself to you in my new role with the Deer Tribe.
Swiftdeer has given me the honour of establishing and leading the tribal Brotherhood Society.
Until now we have not had a unifying link to all the various brotherhoods and men's activities
Therefore one of my initial tasks will be to contact each of the existing brotherhood circles
throughout the Deer Tribe to establish and maintain an open channel of communication.
Both Swiftdeer and I agree it is essential that, as the men of this path continue in their
evolution, we must be current with the direction that our masculine collective is moving in.
Some of the issues i will be focusing on will be to determine what it is that
men need and desire. What kind of support are men looking for from the teachings of this
path and how can this path provide an empowering space for men to explore themselves,
heal, learn and grow.
I am reaching out to all men of this path to share your answers to the issues i listed and to
add any of your own. I am also asking you what is working in your life and in the lives of the
brothers you touch. If you are working with or know of any mens circles, what are they doing
and what are they focusing on.
This will allow us to more effectively support men with their current needs.
I am delighted to take on this new role and I am very excited for the brotherhood as we collectively move
forward into the 5th world.
In Beauty
Lou Brunato
----- Original Message ----
From: Harley Swiftdeer Reagan <gunnietop@cox.net>
To: Lou Brunato <snowbeardreaming@rogers.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 3:50:06 PM
Subject: Re: brotherhood
Hey Lou...
How’s this going?
E
On 7/16/08 1:15 PM, "Harley Swiftdeer Reagan" <gunnietop@cox.net> wrote:
Hey Lou
Attached is what I have from brothers. Read it over, and see what you glean from that about our current state of affairs.
No one is currently holding vision for brotherhood in Phoenix (that I know of), although occasionally there are some rumblings.
Also, nothing I know of in California, though I would include Joerg in this (joergvancorva@hotmail.com).
I’ve been thinking how to best put this out. Here are the options I see:
-We could email this (what you wrote below) with and introduction from Swift to the Lodge Leaders and the Brotherhood circles we
know.
-We could have Mary include it in the monthly medicine emails that go out to leaders.
-We could put something in Deer Tracks about the vision, and calling all brothers...
-We could do all of the above.
I’m trying to understand what this really means for the Brothers. What do you see as things you’ll do in the next year, in addition
to “establish and maintain an open channel of communication????
What are some concrete plans? How can you support brothers who want to get a brotherhood started, but haven’t got it moving yet? How
can you support brothers in their medicine work? Whatcha gonna do? We can crown you and give you a title, but what the men will be
interested in is – what is in it for them?!!
If you can you can vision/initiate this, I can take whatever actions are necessary, and get whatever you need from Swift. Be sparky
for me, will ya?
Let me know what you thinkin!
E
This is what you wrote so far!
Hello Brothers,
I am writing this letter to introduce myself to you in my new role with the Deer Tribe.
I have been given the task of establishing and leading the tribal Brotherhood Society.
Until now we have not had a unifying society to link all the various brotherhoods together,
therefore one of my initial tasks will be to contact each of the existing brotherhood circles
throughout the Deer Tribe to establish and maintain an open channel of communication.
Both Swiftdeer and I agree it is essential that, as the men of this path continue to grow
and heal, we must be current with the direction that our masculine collective is moving in.
This will allow us to more effectively support men with their current needs. I am delighted
to take on this new role and I am very excited for the brotherhood as we collectively move
forward into the 5th world.
In beauty,
Lou Brunato
Snow Bear Dreaming
snowbeardreaming@rogers.com
----------------------------------------------------
Hello Gold Lodge & BoS Members
You are asked to be on the SunDance land by noon on the 24th. We will begin ceremony immediately that evening/night - so come well rested J
The A-WL members will join us on the 26th at noon and we will all be able to leave the land after closing and clean-up on Wednesday, the 30th of April.
Since most of you are leaders on this path, I count on you being FirstAid prepared – when you register on site, please let us know if you are bringing special skills, certifications and/or medical supplies.
Even if you were successful in reserving a space in the house and a cot, please bring a tent so you also have a private resting place for your retreat in case the house becomes a meeting place just when you need a quiet rest! If you live out of town, contact your local buddies to haul tents etc.
PREPARATIONS ON YOUR PART
It is critical to the success of your ceremonies that you come to this event fully prepared. This may require some research, some self-study and the preparations of materials. Read your Gateway Guidebook – attached is a simplified instruction for the 6th Gateway 8th Degree, NE Ceremony that will be our first ceremony. More specific instructions will be provided by the Naqual on site. Also see the list of items needed below.
Once this first ceremony (and the expansion Swift has planned for us) is complete, the remainder of the week will be an orchestration of personal ceremonies and further gateway work. YOU WILL BE ASKED TO WORK WITHIN YOUR CURRENT GATEWAY once the initial working is done. Please come prepared!
ITEMS NEEDED FOR YOUR CEREMONIES
o **Flashlight that has a red cover (red light) AND a laser light/pointer** This is critical to our first working.
o Two packets of firewood (readily available at the Circle K type stores on the way to the land - if you do not bring this firewood you will be asked to contribute $20 to re-stock the SunDance fire wood.
o Gateway Guidebooks and Logs (read up on the ceremonies you have requested – come prepared)
o Medicine Pipe
o Preparations for participating in Sweat Lodge Ceremonies
o Medicine Gifts – your personal monitor may be doing a give-away
o Medicine Bundle
o Black Lightning Medicine
o NightWarrior or Dream Journal
o 6th Gateway 8th Degree Northeast Ceremony
o Soul Bundle
o Spirit Catcher (bowl wrapped with red yarn)
o Spirit Holder. (A spirit holder is a large stone of one’s birth totem [if it is translucent] or a cave crystal. A cave crystal may be a river tumbled crystal, tunnel in shape with one side cut off so you can access the “cave???. It may have three sides that are opaque and one side that is very clear so you can see into the cave.)
o Sage, red cloth and wrapping material so the Spirit Holder can be securely wrapped after the action in this ceremony.
PERSONAL CARE ITEMS TO BRING
o You know SunDance Land – come prepared for cool nights and lots of wind!
o Sunglasses and wind goggles, especially for those who wear contact lenses
o Sunscreen and rain gear and layers of clothing to keep you warm
o Good hiking boots or walking/running shoes that can take you on long walks and “night runs???
o Some kind of hat and gloves
o Lots of carbonated water for the workings (no citrus!)
o Your own drinking water if you do not like the land’s water
o Any medications that you take regularly – and any you feel you might need under these circumstances.
o Folding chair, note pad and pens, book light to make it easy to read what you are writing in the dark (or dim lighting)
o Trash bags – we will be carrying out the trash we bring in
o Bring your walkie talkie, please! Set it to channel 6 when you arrive on the land.
o Extra batteries for your flashlights, walkie talkies, etc.
FACILITIES ON THE LAND
o We will set up a communal kitchen in the big house – it now has running water thanks to our hard-working land care committee! J. If you live locally, you will be asked to contribute a propane stove if you have one.
o The water will be running and is good to drink. Showers (hot and cold) will be operational. Some porta-potties have been rented, the house now has a flush toilet and the compost toilet is also working fine.
o The Yurt has been destroyed beyond repair so this is no longer a sanctuary for us to use.
NOTE: If you are staying in the house (and if you have a partner who is staying in the house with you) please know that your "sleeping quarters" will also be our "meeting room". This means we will need to remain ultra-flexible. It is also recommended that you organize your packing well as storage space will be very compact! Bring a small tent or bivouac sac and ground pad so you can always find a quiet resting place at the time that you need one.
----------------------------------------------------
Hello fellow A-WLer
I hope your summer is going well.
I have it from our teacher that we would do well to study the Energy
Light Movement Wheel and do some self-study by overlaying the Grand
Design Spinner on it.
So in those "lazy, hazy days of summer", spin some wheels and come
prepared for our session in October :-)
Janneke
------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Lou. My calculation of payments due to you for sweats during January to June is below. The total is $540. Are there any
other expenses that you have incurred in maintaining the lodge during the first half of this year? If not, then I think the easiest
thing will be if you send me a cheque for Black Lightning Lodge for the difference - $310. If there are please let know, deduct them
from the $310, and send me the receipts, along with your attendance sheets for the sweats. I ask for these because I can be asked by
the Deer Tribe for an accounting of expenses relating to Sweat Lodges (we are not supposed to make a profit from ceremony as you know)
so I do track them.
Thanks again Lou,
Anne
Payments due to Sweat Lodge Keepers: Jan- Jun. 2008
Pickering
- Brotherhood 6@ $30 $180
- Sisterhood 5@ $30 $150
- White Lodge 1@ $30 $ 30
- Pipe Sweats 4@ $30 $120
- Pattern Shifting 1@ $30 $ 30
- Healing Team 1@ $30 $ 30
Total $540
From: snowbeardreaming@rogers.com [mailto:snowbeardreaming@rogers.com]
Sent: July 21, 2008 9:00 AM
To: anne trebilcock
Subject: brotherhood tally
hi anne, the total taken in for the brotherhood and including a pipe sweat is $850.00.
Lou Brunato
---------------------------------------------------------
Swift & I talked. I’m going to suggest to Jan that she do an apprentice feature with you in Deer Tracks, and we include this letter, plus more info.
E
On 8/8/08 1:09 PM, "snowbeardreaming@rogers.com" <snowbeardreaming@rogers.com> wrote:
hello harley, i have modified my introduction letter. i invite your input and suggestions for improvement.
i have been very challenged to push through my resistance to fully claiming this new role with the brotherhood.
is there anything you would suggest either through ceremony, sweat lodge or teachings that i can use to help me
win this battle.
here is the new letter.
Hello Brothers,
I am writing this letter to introduce myself to you in my new role with the Deer Tribe.
Swiftdeer has given me the honour of establishing and leading the tribal Brotherhood Society.
Until now we have not had a unifying link to all the various brotherhoods and men's activities.
Therefore one of my initial tasks will be to contact each of the existing brotherhood circles
throughout the Deer Tribe to establish and maintain an open channel of communication.
Both Swiftdeer and I agree it is essential that, as the men of this path continue in their
evolution, we must be current with the direction that our masculine collective is moving in.
Some of the issues I will be focusing on will be to determine what it is that
men need and desire. What kind of support are men looking for from the teachings of this
path and how can this path provide an empowering space for men to explore themselves,
heal, learn, grow and face their challenges.
I am reaching out to all men of this path to share your answers to the issues I listed and to
add any of your own. I am also asking you what is working in your life and in the lives of the
brothers you touch. If you are working with or know of any mens circles, what are they doing
and what are they focusing on? What's working and not working?
This will allow for more effective support of men's current needs.
I am delighted to take on this new role and I am very excited for the brotherhood as we collectively move
forward into the 5th world.
In Beauty
Lou Brunato
----- Original Message ----
From: Harley Swiftdeer Reagan <gunnietop@cox.net>
To: Lou Brunato <snowbeardreaming@rogers.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 3:50:06 PM
Subject: Re: brotherhood
Re: brotherhood Hey Lou...
How’s this going?
E
On 7/16/08 1:15 PM, "Harley Swiftdeer Reagan" <gunnietop@cox.net> wrote:
Hey Lou
Attached is what I have from brothers. Read it over, and see what you glean from that about our current state of affairs.
No one is currently holding vision for brotherhood in Phoenix (that I know of), although occasionally there are some rumblings.
Also, nothing I know of in California, though I would include Joerg in this (joergvancorva@hotmail.com).
I’ve been thinking how to best put this out. Here are the options I see:
-We could email this (what you wrote below) with and introduction from Swift to the Lodge Leaders and the Brotherhood circles we know.
-We could have Mary include it in the monthly medicine emails that go out to leaders.
-We could put something in Deer Tracks about the vision, and calling all brothers...
-We could do all of the above.
I’m trying to understand what this really means for the Brothers. What do you see as things you’ll do in the next year, in addition to “establish and maintain an open channel of communication????
What are some concrete plans? How can you support brothers who want to get a brotherhood started, but haven’t got it moving yet? How can you support brothers in their medicine work? Whatcha gonna do? We can crown you and give you a title, but what the men will be interested in is – what is in it for them?!!
If you can you can vision/initiate this, I can take whatever actions are necessary, and get whatever you need from Swift. Be sparky for me, will ya?
Let me know what you thinkin!
E
This is what you wrote so far!
Hello Brothers,
I am writing this letter to introduce myself to you in my new role with the Deer Tribe.
I have been given the task of establishing and leading the tribal Brotherhood Society.
Until now we have not had a unifying society to link all the various brotherhoods together,
therefore one of my initial tasks will be to contact each of the existing brotherhood circles
throughout the Deer Tribe to establish and maintain an open channel of communication.
Both Swiftdeer and I agree it is essential that, as the men of this path continue to grow
and heal, we must be current with the direction that our masculine collective is moving in.
This will allow us to more effectively support men with their current needs. I am delighted
to take on this new role and I am very excited for the brotherhood as we collectively move
forward into the 5th world.
In beauty,
Lou Brunato
Snow Bear Dreaming
snowbeardreaming@rogers.com
-
Thanks, Al and whoever sent those emails in; they made very creepy reading.
-
I thought the Cherokee Nation threatening lawsuits would have done something about it, but no... HBO is still running the footage from one of Reagan's workshops on their "Real Sex" show.
It's the same old footage: Reagan claiming his bastardized, western "tantra" is "Cherokee", and groups of howling, convulsing, white hippies in beadwork and feathers having sex while Reagan watches, smoking a cigarette and saying, "Yeah..."
It's ugly, and he's one creepy white dude.
With his drawings of genitalia that he labels by "animal powers", and his claims of what these body types indicate in terms of sexual preference and performance, I'm thinking his moniker of "Swift Deer" may actually be him naming himself the equivalent of "ComesTooSoon".
[again, we need that vomiting icon]
-
Shake a bush and all kinds of strange people fall out. The Canadian based Institute of Contemporary Shamanic Studies (ICSS) has two sites. One is in the west at Calgary Alberta and the other in Toronto Ontario. These three people are cited as ICSS faculty.
John Thunder Wolf has been a student of the Sweet Medicine Sundance Path since 1985. He is a psychotherapist, educator, musician, and corporate speaker who has been presenting the Sweet Medicine Sundance teachings for the past 12 years…His continuing quest for knowledge led him to complete a Masters degree in psychology and his training as a psychotherapist. In 1990 he co-founded the Black Lightning Lodge to bring the Sweet Medicine Sundance teachings to Toronto and to provide a home for the students of this path. He continues to lead the Lodge and is a teacher at ICSS, Toronto, Canada which provides classes, lectures and workshops for personal self growth and development.Jay Eagle Skyrider, psychotherapist and teacher in both the Sweet Medicine SunDance Path and Gestalt therapy apprenticed to the path 1992 following a two year spiritual quest that led her through three countries and full circle back to Toronto….Jay is a writer, chef, lover, corporate regional manager and on the leading edge of working with aged. She is a psychotherapist with a successful ten-year practice, a trainer and a facilitator of groups, couples and individuals. She is the senior faculty at the Gestalt Institute, an instructor in the Red Lodge Longhouse program and co-creator of Healing the Broken Circle, a powerful shamanic program for addictions.Barbara Butterfly Dreamer has been studying the Sweet Medicine Sundance path since 1989. She is an apprentice, parent of adult children, teacher and ceremonialist. Since 1993 she has been traveling and teaching internationally, the Wheels and Keys of the Sweet Medicine Sundance path, her 'path with heart'…In 1990 she co-founded a teaching Lodge in Toronto, Ontario Canada to facilitate her own growth and the growth of the Sweet Medicine Sundance Path in Canada. In 1996 she co-founded the Institute of Contemporary Shamanic Studies, Toronto, Canada.
These people are therapists in a position of trust! OMG. Also why don't they simply and quietly work along side appropriate traditional people as is often the norm. Calgary especially is sorrounded by some of the most traditional people in north america- the Sarcee, Nakota, Blackfoot and Cree peoples. Why the need to give themselves phoney NDN names and practice Reagan darkness. Reagan certainly has long tentacles. Most sickening.
-
Shake a bush and all kinds of strange people fall out. The Canadian based Institute of Contemporary Shamanic Studies (ICSS) has two sites. One is in the west at Calgary Alberta and the other in Toronto Ontario. These three people are cited as ICSS faculty.
John Thunder Wolf has been a student of the Sweet Medicine Sundance Path since 1985. He is a psychotherapist, educator, musician, and corporate speaker who has been presenting the Sweet Medicine Sundance teachings for the past 12 years…His continuing quest for knowledge led him to complete a Masters degree in psychology and his training as a psychotherapist. In 1990 he co-founded the Black Lightning Lodge to bring the Sweet Medicine Sundance teachings to Toronto and to provide a home for the students of this path. He continues to lead the Lodge and is a teacher at ICSS, Toronto, Canada which provides classes, lectures and workshops for personal self growth and development.Jay Eagle Skyrider, psychotherapist and teacher in both the Sweet Medicine SunDance Path and Gestalt therapy apprenticed to the path 1992 following a two year spiritual quest that led her through three countries and full circle back to Toronto….Jay is a writer, chef, lover, corporate regional manager and on the leading edge of working with aged. She is a psychotherapist with a successful ten-year practice, a trainer and a facilitator of groups, couples and individuals. She is the senior faculty at the Gestalt Institute, an instructor in the Red Lodge Longhouse program and co-creator of Healing the Broken Circle, a powerful shamanic program for addictions.Barbara Butterfly Dreamer has been studying the Sweet Medicine Sundance path since 1989. She is an apprentice, parent of adult children, teacher and ceremonialist. Since 1993 she has been traveling and teaching internationally, the Wheels and Keys of the Sweet Medicine Sundance path, her 'path with heart'…In 1990 she co-founded a teaching Lodge in Toronto, Ontario Canada to facilitate her own growth and the growth of the Sweet Medicine Sundance Path in Canada. In 1996 she co-founded the Institute of Contemporary Shamanic Studies, Toronto, Canada.
These people are therapists in a position of trust! OMG. Also why don't they simply and quietly work along side appropriate traditional people as is often the norm. Calgary especially is sorrounded by some of the most traditional people in north america- the Sarcee, Nakota, Blackfoot and Cree peoples. Why the need to give themselves phoney NDN names and practice Reagan darkness. Reagan certainly has long tentacles. Most sickening.
I am horrified but unsurprised by this
It is terrifying to imagine that vulnerable people could end up in the clutches of these "therapists"
I do not know a great deal about Canadian legislation regarding therapists, but here in the UK anyone can call themselves a therapist / counsellor and there are all kinds of dubious people offering weird types of therapy, ranging from "astrological psychoanalysis" (purleeeze) through to "tantric psychotherapy", the latter being something I am most concerned about as people are being violated sexually by these so called therapists.
There is such a tidal wave of this sh*t that I do not know where to start dealing with it.
One thing I am working on in the UK is to make the various regulating/ accrediting organisation aware of the situation. This is easier said than done, but is an ongoing project for me. It is also complicated by the fact that the UK regulating bodies (e.g. BACP and UKCP) can only handle complaints about its members and many of these abusive people do not belong to any regulating organisations.
One other possible way forward is to try to discover what, if any, professional insurance these "therapists" have.
It is very difficult for a therapist to get professional insurance if they do not belong to a recognised accrediting body, so this could be a way to stop them.
We used to have a great resource called Witness Against Abuse, well it is still there website here http://www.popan.org.uk/ but their helpline had to be cut due to lack of funds. It is a terrible shame because right now it is absolutely essential that such a helpline exists.
Please let me know if I can be of any help re this.
I will do my best to help in any way I can.
Just one more thing, in one of the emails posted above I noticed this
The scroll is made of fur or leather, any animal hide or leather of
your preference. It is often made of otter, badger, or beaver hide. . It
should be large enough for the sigils to be painted on it...
My understanding of sigils is that they are very commonly used by occult groups using sex magick. I find this extremely concerning given the allegations of rape and the sexual abuse of minors.
They are in the UK and I would really appreciate any help re collecting data on them here.
I am also, of course, happy to help in any way I can in stopping them wherever they are in the world, although I will need guidance from the people who know more about them.
My background is in mental health.
-
I don't know what a sigil is.. the first time I ever heard the term was when the man who was aiding me told me there were two sigils in affect on me. I have no idea what they are. He removed them and I got better, better than I had been in years. I had a lot of dark/black magics attacked at me. I don't know what occult practices the attackers were into, but that they used sigils and also used Egyptian magicks (for lack of better word).
There are some really dark evil people in the world. No, I was not involved with them in any way whatsoever. But my experience tells me that not everyone is a fraud and some of these people do get 'followers' and then they are caught in evil web. No, I was not a follower of them.
-
Well, they are fraud in the sense that they offer "enlightenment' 'personal power' and the like when in reality they are not. The frauds who without any knowledge and just raking in the dough is one thing, but the frauds who rake in people for other personal uses and keep them like captives is another. I know from experience what they do, but not because I followed, but because trying to help someone being duped. I was too late. I failed it. And nearly died in the process.
They walk as though they are good people. They talk as though they are shining the light or some such. But they are dark and evil. The one I know of I will not speak her name. She is already fallen. But I know there are others.
This is one reason I feel strong about frauds. The innocent people getting caught up in such groups. It's bad enough to have your money stolen and your life upside down, it's worse when your soul is caught. Some here may not believe such things, I wouldn't have if I had not spent the last 10 years fighting this nonsense. I've come out the other side, perhaps just fortunate, or meant to. I don't know. Doesn't matter. I lived.
I wish people to be warned of these. The good will never charge you money.. the fake will, so will the fraud.. and most importantly, so will the evil hiding within those nuage 'light workers'. Stay away from it. All of it. Because you don't know who is simply a fake and who is of evil magic/sorcery or whatever until it is too late.
New people reading here, stopping by, looking through, heed my words. Stay away from it, the evil that attacked me came from people you would NEVER expect, using my friend as a front.. hiding behind. When he found out it was too late.. but I still wait.. I have faith for his freedom.
-
I don't know what a sigil is.. the first time I ever heard the term was when the man who was aiding me told me there were two sigils in affect on me. I have no idea what they are. He removed them and I got better, better than I had been in years. I had a lot of dark/black magics attacked at me. I don't know what occult practices the attackers were into, but that they used sigils and also used Egyptian magicks (for lack of better word).
There are some really dark evil people in the world. No, I was not involved with them in any way whatsoever. But my experience tells me that not everyone is a fraud and some of these people do get 'followers' and then they are caught in evil web. No, I was not a follower of them.
A sigil is a magical symbol so the word covers a broad range of things
I am concerned about "swiftdeer" using the word simply because of the nature of the allegations of sexual abuse against him.
In terms of sex magic(k) the word refers to a symbol (or even some other visual / auditory creation) created by medatitive means, or by some other means but used as an aid to meditation to accomplish a magickal goal. This relates to Crowley's concept of "love under will" which refers to the idea that people can use sexual energy (usually via the sublimation of orgasm) to make stuff happen in the real world.
So a sigil might be a diagram, drawing or even a piece of music or a video that contains within it an overt or (more usually covert) reference to the desired aim that the person concentrates on in order that, at the moment of orgasm, they use the "energy" created to bring about a desired change in the world or to open a doorway to other worlds.
At least that's the theory....
Clearly you don't need to be Einstein to understand that
a) vulnerable people who feel guilty about sex, for whatever reason, might find the idea of sex magick attractive (you get to have sex but hey, it's for a spiritual goal so you don't have to feel dirty)
b) the concept of sex magick is attractive to abusers / predators because it is an efficient way of attracting and controlling victims and having sex with them
c) when people get involved sexually with others in a religions / spiritual setting that advocates "free love" (usually under the guise of being sufficiently "brave" and "courageous" to challenge society's norms) people can very rapidly lose their sense of personal boundaries and self-respect and become easy to manipulate.
I am not saying that all and every person who has ever been interested in sex magick is an abuser or even a bad person.
Personally I believe that what consenting adults get up to sexually is their own business and nobody else's.
However when you have a situation where this swiftdeer character (who is very clearly a dangerous person) is committing so many well documented abuses, is manipulating vulnerable people and represents a threat to minors then this is a different kettle of fish altogether.
I suppose I am saying that, critter, I do not know about the "sigils" that you were told you had. They may be absolutely nothing to do with sex at all. In fact I suspect that this is the case. I am concerned about the word being used in relation to a notorious sexual predator, swiftdeer, in an entirely different context.
I feel concerned about your posts though. It sounds like you have experienced significant traumas and problems and I am very sorry for that. I hope that you have been able to find good, decent, non-exploitative people who you can trust and feel safe with.
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Hi, don't feel concerned. I put my posts for others to see for warning. I do have some trust issues, but so what. I don't put my attention on it. I don't let it rule me. I am happy for all the experiences I've had, even the most traumatic. It makes me me. I do have some people who live away. Here, I have my cats and dog. :) But it's of no concern. My fundamental belief is that all things in/of life are for good purpose and reason. While living it was not good, now, it is good.
I don't think the sigils attached to me were sexual. I understand people using sexual energy in that way, I believe it is wrong. Even if with consenting adults I believe any attempt to manipulate others and/or life is wrong. What I mean by manipulate is not the same as the meaning of working to change something in life that could be or should be better. I'm speaking of the direct intent to manipulate outcomes, or life events, or people and their choices. It is a folly to believe we have such control, which is also the folly of the Jame Ray "Secret".
It is also folly to believe we 'should' do such. There is when to stand back and let life unfold as it must, and then, when to do something. People trying to always control life and life events. The only thing there is to control is one's self, and how to assimilate the experience.
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Hi, don't feel concerned. I put my posts for others to see for warning. I do have some trust issues, but so what. I don't put my attention on it. I don't let it rule me. I am happy for all the experiences I've had, even the most traumatic. It makes me me. I do have some people who live away. Here, I have my cats and dog. :) But it's of no concern. My fundamental belief is that all things in/of life are for good purpose and reason. While living it was not good, now, it is good.
I have trust issues too. ;)
In the end all we can do is to do out best to make lemonade from the lemons life puts our way and it sounds like you have done that.
I am very pleased to hear that your life is good now. :)
I don't think the sigils attached to me were sexual. I understand people using sexual energy in that way, I believe it is wrong. Even if with consenting adults I believe any attempt to manipulate others and/or life is wrong. What I mean by manipulate is not the same as the meaning of working to change something in life that could be or should be better. I'm speaking of the direct intent to manipulate outcomes, or life events, or people and their choices. It is a folly to believe we have such control, which is also the folly of the Jame Ray "Secret".
I agree 100%
Of course it is wrong to try and manipulate other people by using magic.
IME people who attempt to control others in this way are deluded and out of control in their own lives. Some are just criminals who use magic as a way to exploit people sexually or just as a cloak for their own depravity.
Often the people who get drawn into such activities are very vulnerable and need firm loving boundaries, not depraved abuse. It is very sad.
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Got a request about Harley Reagan's call for an overthrow of the govt in 200 if Al Gore became president. Here it is, in full raging Tontospeak. Calls for violence bolded.
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http://www.goodguyswin.org/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=467
Also at http://www.externstein.de/religion/Deer/Seite20.htm
The Shooting Shaman Speaks...
I suppose some people will find it highly unusual that a "spiritual" man can also be such a strong Pro Gun activist. The reality is that due to my extensive background--including the periods of time in which I mis-informedly participated in government "Black Ops" through NSA and CIA--is what has brought me to this place: My stance for Liberty!
We stand at a moment of extreme crisis in this beloved land of freedom. Our united States Constitution is hanging by a silver tread on the horns of the "Clinton Bull of Tyranny". We--all pro freedom, pro choice Americans who are loyal to this Country and what it stands for--are now at the impact effect of the most unconstitutional President, Senate and Congress under which our nation has ever lived. We are in absolute tyranny. We must take strong affirmative and decisive actions NOW! We have been forced into an arena of conflict and oppression which is leading us on a continuing path of absolute One World Order Tyrannical Government at the hands of the United Nations "Demagogues" and international Bankers.
We must enter the arena of our Freedom Battle fully aware of many important things-- including the tools available to us.
This arena has within it 4 "boxes" or "Liberty Tools" within which we have a chance to reverse the Freedom Eradication Process. To help us regain our liberty and stand as an independent Sovereign Nation of Americans once again, we must ACT within these boxes intelligently and efficiently. In order to maintain and sustain our individual autonomous freedom we must be willing to emotionally assume authority for what we give, say, teach and share with others in our own individual world. We also must assume authority for what, when, where and how we choose to perceive and receive input data from all sources in order to formulate our mental conceptions, self-concepts and world view model of reality. We must have honest, valid attitudes and approaches in the face of tyranny in our move to take this nation back.
We must be willing to take responsibility for all of our physical, emotional, mental, spiritual, and sexual actions at all times, everywhere, in all matters. And last and most important to my People (the full blood and mixed blood Turtle Island Natives, for I am half-Cherokee and half-Irish) is that we must stand spiritually accountable for the future of the next 7 generations of our children! It is our duty, obligation and responsibility as a united people to insure the restoration and preservation of our Constitution and especially the Bill of Rights. I am now exercising my 1st amendment right in order to preserve the 2nd amendment right, for I am one of We The People.
It is vital that we immediately remember and put to use the fact that our government is "the People." We are the government, of, by, and for "the People." In other words folks, We The People ARE the government! Though it is easy enough for an intelligent person to grasp this fact intellectually, it is time to USE this fact intelligently, taking it from Knowledge into Action.
Back to the "boxes" of Liberty...
The first Liberty Box we must use in the restoration and preservation of our freedom is the Computer box, via the Internet. The fact that you are reading this means at some level you already understand this fact. Using the Computer Liberty Box wisely is helping to protect all 10 of the Bill of Rights, especially the 1st amendment right, by shining light on the multiple Liberty Infractions committed by a criminal government. The Computer Liberty Box is and will continue to be one of the most important foundations upon which we rebuild and restore America. Therefore we must stand united with Angel Shamaya's and KeepAndBearArms.org's project to bring KeepAndBearArms.com to the gun community immediately! We need the vision of a unified nationwide collective of all gun owners (the collective vision of the many good people contributing to this project) to become a reality NOW. Let's dream together a united internet network of Pro Liberty and Freedom Advocates in our sweeping move to conquer this Bull of Tyranny.
The second Liberty box we must preserve is the Voting box. This involves one of many focused action steps this organization will bring forth. We must start demanding and pushing a Bill to be implemented immediately in this next election. A legitimate contractual agreement signed by any and all holders of public offices, from the top down, to the bottom up. For those who are uninformed or misinformed, a personal business contract actually supersedes even our Constitution. Therefore, anything a politician promises in order to get elected will be listened to and carefully recorded and placed into the contract which will be signed by the politician and the state attorney general and three citizen witnesses, selected out of the phone book at random. Therefore, the moment they violate any of their agreements we can, should and will fire them on the spot and rehire another employee who will honor their contract. Period! No exceptions!
We must reestablish immediately the reality that all elected officials are in fact, "servants" and employees of the People! In this way we can restore this country back to it's original state as a Republic and stop the Bull of Tyranny from "Gore-ing" our rights to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. We will not be "Gored" any longer! The Bull will fall into the Red, White and Blue cape of Liberty and Freedom as we deal out the coup d'etat with our swords of Justice. In this way we will force all politicians to become statesmen and therefore perform their duties as a "servant" of the People as was originally intended by the Founding Fathers of this country. Those who refuse to sign such a document, once highly publicized, will require further action we'll cover later.
The 3rd Liberty box is the Jury box. Currently, courts are held under a gold trimmed flag which is not the American flag at all, but is the governmental, Military Martial law flag. (another fact which is not well known) We must use the jury box to nullify illegal laws through the Jury Nullification process and through proper use of statutes of the Fully Informed Jury Act (FIJA). The Jury Liberty Box is a profoundly powerful liberty tool at our disposal which requires, among other things, the education of the people who find their ways to juries. Education on this subject is vital to our liberties, and you are encouraged to begin or continue your own education process here: http://www.fija.org
My brothers and sisters, if we do not begin immediately to use the 3 above boxes we will be forced to resort to the 4th and most Determinant of all the Liberty Boxes in order to preserve our Liberty and Freedom. This is of course the Cartridge Box. One of my teachers (who are called the Twisted Hairs Elders of Turtle Island) said, "passivity and complacency breed violence and Force regulates violence." Criminals are perpetrators of violence. Therefore, the People must become the "Force" that regulates them. The time for We The People to be regulated as if we are the criminals is OVER! The Cartridge Box is the tyrant's greatest threat to his/her game plan as it is the one sure thing which will avert all attempts at coercion and control--the favorite past time of the tyrannical people on our beloved planet.
May the "Force" be with us as we walk in beauty, down the golden path towards illumination, wisdom and eventually enlightenment, for this is the destiny of all Liberty Advocates--to walk the talk of a Light Warrior in these changing and struggling times.
In the way of my people, I have spoken. HO!
The Shooting Shaman
Harley SwiftDeer Reagan, Ph. D., D.D
AKA "Gunnie"
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I just thought I would share this link which is to either a tantric massage and healing centre or to a brothel, depending on whether you believe that genital massage is a spirchul service or prostitution. The Dakini / sex worker is "an initiate of the twisted hair shamanic path".
Okaaay
http://www.dakinihealing.co.uk/kathryn.php
What I offer:
The sessions I offer are a bespoke service; no two sessions look the same. Whilst I have studied and practice Tantra, shamanic and healing practices which inform my work, the most important aspect of what do is be present in a heart centred and loving place, with the intention to hold space for your truth to emerge, and express itself clearly through your body.
Depending upon the session you have booked (see below), I usually begin by inviting you to talk about whatever it is that has motivated you to come. Then with the help of creative visualisations, tantra meditations, breath, movement, and sound we can start to get under the surface exploring the energy behind the words. We can then go to a deeper level still: whether through physical contact, shamanic journeying, role-playing or massage.
Welcome seekers of Dakini healing - a powerful sexual alchemy creating a catalyst for change.
Welcome seekers of heart centred honouring and pleasure - you will be seen in your divine masculinity by a Goddess.
My background:
I have been studying Tantra consistently since 2002, I run a peer network for people studying tantra and regularly lead groups, from beginners Tantra through to intimate massage for men and women.
My Dakini healing work is inspired by Baba Dez of Sedona Temple with whom I have attended a Dakini training in the UK. I am currently an initiate of the twisted hair shamanic path training to offer healing circles with John Hawken. I also have completed an extended Tantra 'deep diving' programme with Diamond Light Tantra; a 2-year practitioners training with Making Moves; Tantra massage training Enlightenment Intensives and other workshops with spiritual and Tantra guides in the UK.
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I just thought I would share this link which is to either a tantric massage and healing centre or to a brothel, depending on whether you believe that genital massage is a spirchul service or prostitution. The Dakini / sex worker is "an initiate of the twisted hair shamanic path".
Okaaay
http://www.dakinihealing.co.uk/kathryn.php
What I offer:
The sessions I offer are a bespoke service; no two sessions look the same. Whilst I have studied and practice Tantra, shamanic and healing practices which inform my work, the most important aspect of what do is be present in a heart centred and loving place, with the intention to hold space for your truth to emerge, and express itself clearly through your body.
Depending upon the session you have booked (see below), I usually begin by inviting you to talk about whatever it is that has motivated you to come. Then with the help of creative visualisations, tantra meditations, breath, movement, and sound we can start to get under the surface exploring the energy behind the words. We can then go to a deeper level still: whether through physical contact, shamanic journeying, role-playing or massage.
Welcome seekers of Dakini healing - a powerful sexual alchemy creating a catalyst for change.
Welcome seekers of heart centred honouring and pleasure - you will be seen in your divine masculinity by a Goddess.
My background:
I have been studying Tantra consistently since 2002, I run a peer network for people studying tantra and regularly lead groups, from beginners Tantra through to intimate massage for men and women.
My Dakini healing work is inspired by Baba Dez of Sedona Temple with whom I have attended a Dakini training in the UK. I am currently an initiate of the twisted hair shamanic path training to offer healing circles with John Hawken. I also have completed an extended Tantra 'deep diving' programme with Diamond Light Tantra; a 2-year practitioners training with Making Moves; Tantra massage training Enlightenment Intensives and other workshops with spiritual and Tantra guides in the UK.
Seems pretty clear to me that it's an ad for a nuage whorehouse.
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Seems pretty clear to me that it's an ad for a nuage whorehouse.
Yes.
That is how it looks to me too.
It is a growth industry right now and, as you can imagine, there are all kinds of dangerous organised criminals associated with this particular section of the industry. Gangsters, pimps and people traffickers do not decline to get involved with it just because it is nuage. On the contrary the demographic for purchasing these kinds of services are very attractive to organised criminals. Affluent, predominantly middle class, male and female, may be in influential positions in governments and local authorities, likely to also believe in crystal skulls, homoeopathy and any other BS, and can be lead astray and blackmailed with relative ease.
IMO the situation with this kind of nuage adult industry enterprise and the growth of such businesses is akin to a cigarette that is slowly smouldering away from view, inside a mattress. if nothing is done soon to deal with the problem the whole thing will ignite in a dramatic way with very serious consequences.
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The Deer Tribe are providing all kinds of training courses in the UK at the moment
Detail View: Eagle Dance
Open to everyone
Place of Event: Derbyshire Earth Heart, United Kingdom
Date 28.05.2011 - 30.05.2011
Facilitator Elaine Casey
Contact Person Gill Eakins
Email gill.eakins@gmail.com
Homepage http://www.centreforshamanicarts.co.uk
Prerequisites None required
1-3 GW ceremonies & monitoring opportunities
Place of Event: HG4 3DA Lime Tree Farm, United Kingdom
Date 13.08.2011 - 19.08.2011
Facilitator Elaine Casey
Contact Person Elaine Casey
Email info@elainecasey.co.uk
Homepage http://www.centreforshamanicarts.co.uk
Prerequisites Apprentice
Detail View: Circle of Law workshop
In the Deer Tribe we have a system of governance based on Sacred Law. The Circle of Law is a unique tool for exploring issues from every direction on the medicine wheel. This is a resource that would be invaluable for the strength and resilience of our Lodge. If there is any major change required in the Lodge or a major disagreement, the Circle of Law is a means by which all implications and outcomes can be thoroughly examined and decisions made in alignment with Sacred Law. Sitting on the circle is a very interesting training and process as it requires stepping out of one\\\\\\\'s own opinions and beliefs and as on a healing circle, holding and speaking to the issue within the responsibilities of that direction.
Place of Event: S18 4AL Unstone Grange Barn, United Kingdom
Date 05.03.2011 - 06.03.2011
Facilitator Carol Youngson
Contact Person Carol Youngson
Email carolwocy@gmail.com
Homepage http://www.centreforshamanicarts.co.uk
Prerequisites Apprentice
Detail View: 4th Gateway
Healing included
Place of Event: S18 4AL Unstone Grange House, United Kingdom
Date 17.03.2011 - 20.03.2011
Facilitator Janneke Koole
Contact Person Mary Hoptroff
Email maryrosehoptroff@aol.com
Homepage http://www.centreforshamanicarts.co.uk
Prerequisites 4th GW/ BravoWhiteLodge
Detail View: Full Moon purification lodges
Open to all women
Place of Event: S18 4AL Unstone Grange Barn, United Kingdom
Date Every full moon
Facilitator
Contact Person Helen Star Cave
Email deertribeuk@gmail.com
Homepage http://www.centreforshamanicarts.co.uk
Prerequisites Please contact first for further information
Detail View: Keeper of the Fire training part 1
Place of Event: S18 4AL Unstone Grange Barn, United Kingdom
Date 16.04.2011 - 17.04.2011
Facilitator Pete Edwards
Contact Person Pete
Email moonsnake@peec.fsnet.co.uk
Homepage http://www.centreforshamanicarts.co.uk
Prerequisites Apprentice
Detail View: 4th Gateway
Healing included
Place of Event: S18 4AL Unstone Grange House, United Kingdom
Date 09.06.2011 - 12.06.2011
Facilitator Batty Gold
Contact Person Mary Hoptroff
Email maryrosehoptroff@aol.com
Homepage http://www.centreforshamanicarts.co.uk
Prerequisites 4th GW/ BravoWhiteLodge
Place of Event: S18 4AL Unstone Grange Barn, United Kingdom
Date 03.09.2011 - 04.09.2011
Facilitator Pete Edwards
Contact Person Pete Edwards
Email moonsnake@peec.fsnet.co.uk
Homepage http://www.centreforshamanicarts.co.uk
Prerequisites Apprentice
Open to all women
Place of Event: S18 4AL Unstone Grange House, United Kingdom
Date 28.09.2011 - 02.10.2011
Facilitator Rose Fink
Contact Person Pamela Hayes
Email pamela@theforgehouse.net
Homepage http://www.centreforshamanicarts.co.uk
Prerequisites None required
Detail View: Resculpting
Place of Event: S18 4AL Unstone Grange House, United Kingdom
Date 25.11.2011 - 27.11.2011
Facilitator Sabina Tschudi & Johannes Schröder
Contact Person Emily Terry
Email huntingflicker@awakenyourspirit.co.uk
Homepage http://www.centreforshamanicarts.co.uk
Prerequisites Dearmoured
Detail View: Solstice weekend
Celebrations & Ceremonies
Place of Event: S18 4AL Unstone Grange House, United Kingdom
Date 16.12.2011 - 18.12.2011
Facilitator Elaine Casey
Contact Person Pamela Hayes
Email pamela@theforgehouse.net
Homepage http://www.centreforshamanicarts.co.uk
Prerequisites Apprentice
source: (scroll down)
http://www.dtmms-europe.com/events_by_country.php
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Hi,
I couldnt work out how to start a new topic.
I think this crew belong here: http://www.quickeningevolution.org/
also: http://www.ozsacredsexuality.com/
the names: John 'Thunderwolf' Ardagh, Mukee 'Breezes Love' Okan, Batty 'Thunderbear' Gold, Kristin “Golden Ring Snake” Viken, John “Spinning Coyote” Kent, Peter “Mountain Dreamer” Thomas. lots of claims about Sundance, Twisted Hairs, Quodousha...
My head's spinning from trying to work out what the connection is with all of these people. I'm an amateur, and it seems that they come up on a few different threads here. Apologies mods- you may need to move this post.
I've been invited to some of their seminars (obviously I'm not going) but I'm trying to work out how to open conversation about it with the lovely people who invited me about it.
My friends that they've connected with here in Melbourne are very warm, well meaning, alternative white hippies. I'd say that they are intelligent, but maybe have never really thought about the concept of spiritual appropriation. Different cults have come and gone in the years I've known them and they've gone along, connected to the 'vibe' but not (to my knowledge) joined for a long time. I would say that they're open to experimentation but not necessarily sleazy.
Do I speak up? Or let em float on by???
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Speak up. Otherwise there's a good chance many of these people will be suffering from the worst kinds of sexual trauma. Basically these "sacred sex" seminars are people being told to insert objects up the anus as a group and telling them it's a supposed Cherokee ceremony learned by speaking to a crystal skull telepathically with people of 100 years ago.
H Reagan doesn't teach them any of this for their enlightenment. He deliberately goes for the biggest lies he can think of to weed out who is the most gullible. If you'll insert an object up your rectum in front of a crowd because he tells you it's spirchul, then what won't you do? And that's not even the crzaiest part. Other supposed cereomonies include having a group of males assault a woman, or having women wrestle each other nude. Again, any sexual pleasure is incidental. It's a good way to break down someone's resistance, make them the most pliant cult member possible. And chances are, they won't come forward for fear of ridicule.
Don't just speak up, tell anyone who will listen, including the local press. Try to get the press involved in an expose. This cult has been needing to be stopped for a long time.
If abusing its members for money, sex and power aren't enough, how about the prospect of the cult inciting a race war? Reagan is tied to all kinds of far right groups in the US, even calling for the overthrow of the US govt back in 2000 if Gore were to win the election. It wouldn't surprise me at all if his bunch is tied to your own local militias and extremists.
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oh, nice. Since you put it like that, yes I do need to speak up- just unsure how to start. Thanks for replying. I havent found any reference to Harley Reagan on the two websites I've posted links to, just a lots of references to Chuluquai Quodoshka. The names I posted also come up on a number of other threads here, which was why I was unsure whether I'd come across the right group or not. They seem to have morphed a little....
Here are the blurbs from the Facebook invites:
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=174607145932011
Women's Day with Mukee Okan
Sunday, 2nd October 10am - 6pm
THE ORGASMIC OCEANIC BODY TEMPLE OF THE FEMININE
A day of women’s teachings and dreaming with a Goddess mesa — a table of power to reveal the mystery and wisdom of the feminine within your body.
As a single atom contains all the secrets of matter, the body contains all the secrets and wisdom of the Universe.
You have within your matrix, at the center of that matrix, the physical. It is dreamed into recognition here to be seen, and felt, as the holy temple that it is.
You owe it to yourself and to all with whom you come into contact this respect of the body that says: Touch me and you touch the Goddess. Touch me and you touch the earth. Touch me and you feel the moon. Touch me and you know the stars . . .
It is the greatest imaginings of the Great Creatrix, Wahkahn, for she knew that from you she could birth her most precious of all creations — human — and that within you all creativity, all actions of empowered imaginings, all fulfilments of imaginative creations, are yours for the asking.
But none of this can be accomplished if you do not have respect for your body, and the only form of that respect is worship.
When a woman makes friends with, takes care of and falls in love with her feminine form, her body, something happens. Her innate body wisdom simply flows. Nothing else is as wise and as complex as the body.
Allow the wisdom of the body.
Be receptive to its rhythms.
As a woman, your whole body is an orgasmic wave, an orgasmic ocean. Body, emotions, mind, spirit, soul are different rhythms and wavelengths of the life-force energy.
Become deeply acquainted with your body wisdom.
$95 paid in full by Sept 10
$150 after Sept 10
also:
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=2FREEING THE SEXUAL MAN
One Day Workshop for Men with John Thunderwolf
Lover, father, husband, son or elder...
During this day of empowerment, we will work together to cut
through the facade of societal role models and expectations.
Through the sharing of our wisdom and stories, the use of shamanic knowledge and the practice of ceremonial alchemy you will reconnect with your deepest masculine self.
Become present in your body and express your passion as a sexual man.
Be challenged and freed to engage in more meaningful relationships.
Discover your joy and passion and express it without fear.
Facilitated by John Thunderwolf.
JOHN ThunderWolf began his shamanic training in the Sweet Medicine Sundance Path in 1985. He leads the Black Lightning Lodge in Canada.
John embodies the strength, confidence and wisdom of the masculine. He brings the experience of his rich and varied life as a professional classical musician, teacher, psychotherapist, father, grandfather and husband, together with humor and care, to help others to find their naturalness within their sexuality.
John also leads powerful inspiring programs for men. He has a vision of men returning to balance and finding their strength, power and beauty through ceremony and the community of the masculine. He brings the shamanic healing ways of the Sweet Medicine Sundance Path. He is also an international Quodoushka Spiritual Sexuality facilitator.
Saturday 1st October 11am - 7pm
Cost $150
SPECIAL EARLY BIRD PRICE $95 if paid in full by 1st September
Bring lunch to share 18456738188998
I feel really sad about the locals they've involved in promoting this stuff. They're fantastic people and I can see they're being used. They'll reach out to a lot of folk, because they have the trust of many through other events they've organised. One of my fears about speaking up is that I wont be believed or heard. This is a relatively small community, and lots of alternative workshops come and go without any major dramas. But yes, absolutely, if there is a risk of people being abused or traumatised I need to say something to someone. Any links to newspaper articles, etc, that definitely name this group would be great because I will send it on and do what I can.
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oh, nice. Since you put it like that, yes I do need to speak up- just unsure how to start. Thanks for replying. I havent found any reference to Harley Reagan on the two websites I've posted links to, just a lots of references to Chuluquai Quodoshka. The names I posted also come up on a number of other threads here, which was why I was unsure whether I'd come across the right group or not.
You can tell by catchwords used by the Deer Tribe:
e.g. Harley Reagan usually gets called SwiftDeer or by his latest name, ThunderStrikes
DT sites also mostly use the abbreviation DTMMS (Deer Tribe Métis Medicine Society)
Sweet Medicine, Sweet Medicine Sundance Path, Sundance Path
Chuluaqui Qoudoushka, Qoudoushka, or just "Q"
Twisted Hairs
Body De-armoring
sacred sexuality, spiritual sexuality
Red Lodge, Black Lodge
(Black Lodge workshops will not be advertised openly; this is the DT martial arts system of courses. In the USA, this will also include gun training. Some German language sites advertise courses in martial arts announcing they will be credited to the so-called Gateway Process.)
Several DT members in Europe which they call 'Lodges', like e.g. Skwanesie L., Stardreamer L.
This Batty Gold has been mentioned in other threads here as well. His real name is Norbert Gold and he spent many years at the Deer Tribe HQ in the USA before he returned to Europe. I found a site which says Gold has been a DT member since 1983. He sold workshops in Germany and Austria and now apparently went to Australia.
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oh, nice. Since you put it like that, yes I do need to speak up- just unsure how to start. Thanks for replying. I havent found any reference to Harley Reagan on the two websites I've posted links to, just a lots of references to Chuluquai Quodoshka....
I feel really sad about the locals they've involved in promoting this stuff. They're fantastic people and I can see they're being used. They'll reach out to a lot of folk, because they have the trust of many through other events they've organised. One of my fears about speaking up is that I wont be believed or heard. This is a relatively small community, and lots of alternative workshops come and go without any major dramas. But yes, absolutely, if there is a risk of people being abused or traumatised I need to say something to someone. Any links to newspaper articles, etc, that definitely name this group would be great because I will send it on and do what I can.
The best expose of the Deer Tribe is here.
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2002-06-13/news/sacred-orgasm/
Reagan discusses his belief in a coming race war here and here.
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2002-06-13/news/sacred-orgasm/2/
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2002-06-13/news/sacred-orgasm/6/
Esowatch has an article on him.
http://www.esowatch.com/en/index.php?title=Deer_Tribe
Bullshido did an expose of Reagan also.
http://www.bullshido.org/Claude_Harley_Reagan
I'd also be happy to speak with anyone you think it would help, whether it's reporters, the authorities, or people you are worried may be falling for this cult. They'd also be welcome to come here.
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hi again, thanks both of you for replying- yes, this sounds as if its the same group, Ingeborg.
Our usual home computer has just crashed and my internet access is suddenly limited. Frustrating.
There are some folk I'll email or pm. It would make sense to direct people here, as you suggest, Educated Indian.
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Tansi;
The Deer Tribe is not a Metis organization, and many of us, who are Metis, do find it very offensive that they attempt to use our peoples name to try to appear as if they are an Aboriginal organization.
Learn more about the Metis, by going to look at the non-fraud section, or check out information on the web about the Metis, who are very vibrant and still in existance in many parts of Canada and some of the northern USA.
Ric
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We had to remove this post due to the adult content. A screen cap is available from admin for your research. Links were removed due to explicit photos.
nemesis here:
I am really sorry of the post caused offence, in retrospect I should have checked with the mods before posting the text. Lesson learned.
I have no idea how you accessed explicit photos via the links as they have been dead for a long time. I just checked the website and it is down, the archived version shows only text and a series of little boxes with red crosses in them where the pictures used to be, at least on my browser.
I am not sure what happened there but am very sorry indeed if you access such photos via my links. I hope you know that I would never knowingly post links to explicit photos here.
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Also, I don't think that this has been mentioned here yet but an author called Amara Charles recently published a book called
Sexual Practices of Quodoushka: Teachings from the Nagual Tradition
Apparently she is a "sex and intimacy expert" - I think we all know what that means
Her FB page is here
http://www.facebook.com/amara.charles?sk=info
I notice that on her website here
http://www.amaracharles.com/2011/12/announcing-a-new-womans-retreat/
She is leading women's retreats to discover the "divine feminine"
Travel to the enchanting ‘Land of the Long White Cloud‘, New Zealand, for our special Women’s Retreat where we will delve deeply into the mystery of our Divine Feminine Nature. In the exquisite sanctuary of the Mana Retreat Center we will nourish, heal and rejuvenate our bodies, minds and souls. Together, we will embody the beauty and grace of our natural feminine power.
Find Your Voice
Through ancient matriarchal teachings that explain how you can use the cyclical flow of your feminine fluidity, you will untangle blockages and learn to access the reservoir of your hidden resources. Through chanting, meditation and feminine spiritual practices, we will invoke our true voices so we can listen, clarify and strengthen our path with heart.
Join Amara Charles, Shyena Venice and special guest Sharman Okan for a delightful journey you will never forget. Enjoy the spirit of this gorgeous land as well as premier accommodations, spa treatments, fine food and remarkably friendly people. If you have always wanted to visit New Zealand, or long to bathe in the tranquility of your feminine beauty, this is the way to do it.
This Voices of the Divine Feminine Retreat has come about through many years of dreaming together with Sharman Okan, and a number of elegant adventures with Shyena to New Zealand. We did our first and only retreat together many years ago in Wirunii, Australia. It was called Mystic Rapture, which is precisely what it was. It was a fully spontaneous event where we co created from our different traditions from the deep affinity of our spirits. It was a full immersion into feminine ceremonies of initiation from the Shamanic, Taoist, Tantric and Buddhist lineages we carry. Voices of the Divine Feminine will thus be a reunion continuing what we began seven years ago. It’s going to be a sublime experience of ceremonial chant, meditation, deep reflection and joy opening the space to discover the true vibrations of your natural voice.
this mishmash of different traditions (or more accurately a distortion of different traditions) is fairly typical of the grooming and recruitment workshops run by THB networks
I'm not saying that that is what these are, but I can't help but notice that many women who get involved with Quodoushka seem to end up working in the sex industry, even if they call themselves "Goddesses" "Dakinins" "sacred sexual healers" "intimacy coaches" "sexological bodyworkers" or some other euphemism for what is basically a newage sex worker.
The facilitators for the above events are
AMARA CHARLES is a Master Quodoushka Teacher and has been an apprentice of the Sweet Medicine SunDance Path of Turtle Island since 1987. She has traveled teaching Spiritual Sexuality workshops internationally for over twenty years. She is the author of the best selling book ‘The Sexual Practices of Quodoushka’ as well as ‘Sexual Agreements’’, ‘Aching to Open’ and ‘Touch for Two’ Amara welcomes you to find your voice at the her Voices of the Divine Feminine Retreat in New Zealand.
I don't really need to comment on this as we all know what this means.
SHYENA VENICE Golden Eagle is an intuitive spiritual healer and teacher. Master Bodyworker and gifted musician, Her teachings are based on 20 years of practice in the ancient Taoist White Tigress and Shamanic traditions of spiritual sexuality. She is also the Musical Director of Touch for Two’ and CEO of SYLK, the Natural Premium Lubricant for women.
her FB page is here
http://www.facebook.com/svenice?sk=friends&v=friends
and her FB friends are VERY interesting, they include
Adinatha Tantra - this is hte FB account for a senior MISA (Romanian thb network) member based at the Natha Yoga Centre in Copenhagen - possibly Adina Stoian?
Niki Faldemolaei - Recently arrested on charges of participating in a criminal syndicate, keeping a house of prostitution, receiving earnings of prostitution, possession of marijuana and possession of drug paraphernalia.
Anastasia Tantrika - Owner and Founder at London Tantric Temple (newage brothel)
Baba Dez Nichols - newage pimp, founder of the Sedona Temple (brothel) and friend of many MISA agents
Crystal Dawn Morris - core staff member of the Temple of One (Phoenix Goddess Temple / newage brothel)
Gypsy Lynn Edmondson - currently facing criminal charges re the PGT police raids
Bear Bearcloud - pretendian with strong links to the PGT and Sedona temple
Jade Lotus Tantra - international network of newage brothels
Plus countless newage sex workers and crystal skull merchants
Both of the above women teach and advocate "White Tigress" training which basically is where women are taught that it is good for their health to fellate multiple men without barrier protection and to swallow.
Anyone who is interested can see a video of a "sacred sexual healer" / newage sex worker describing the oral sex aspects of the White Tigress practice here (very explicit discussion but not images)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSbCNY7FtaE
Interestingly the woman in the video recently appeared in the Daily Mail in a story about her 3 way polyamorous relationship here http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2070634/Polyamorous-woman-Jaiya-Ma-baby-lover-living-boyfriend.html
Please note that she calls herself a "sexologist" - yet another euphemism for newage sex worker
Anyway, back to the white tigress practice - apart from the risk of vulnerable, impressionable young women being abused there are very real risks of throat cancer associated with this practice and of course risks from STIs. Not that reality ever stopped newage exploiters of course.
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I notice that on her website here
http://www.amaracharles.com/2011/12/announcing-a-new-womans-retreat/
She is leading women's retreats to discover the "divine feminine"
Travel to the enchanting ‘Land of the Long White Cloud‘, New Zealand, for our special Women’s Retreat where we will delve deeply into the mystery of our Divine Feminine Nature. In the exquisite sanctuary of the Mana Retreat Center we will nourish, heal and rejuvenate our bodies, minds and souls. Together, we will embody the beauty and grace of our natural feminine power.
Who is in or near Phoenix? She's leading one of those retreats there very soon. Just showing up to protest could hit her right in the pocketbook.
It's pretty sickening that she would teach these are somehow feminist retreats when the Deer Tribe routinely sexually assaults women as a group.
These retreats are often held with the locations kept secret to avoid protests. The way to get around that is to pose as someone curious to find out th where and when. When I did that 6-7 years ago, the retreat was held outside an expensive home in the Scottsdale suburbs. The only dark skinned people in that area worked as housekeepers. Myself and some other grad students showed up and picketed and flyered their gathering.
Anyone wanting to protest can also contact me for tips.
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http://www.amaracharles.com/workshops/
Facilitators: Amara Charles, Michael Stein and Mukee Okan
Cost
Singles $695 Early Single Registration until December 1st: $595
Couples $1300 Early Couple Registration until December 1st: $1150
REGISTER HERE
SINGLE PHOENIX Q1 REGISTRATION
COUPLE PHOENIX Q1 REGISTRATION
Q Grads and DTMMS Apprentices contact amara@amaracharles.com
Registration is limited and subject to confirmation. All new participants are interviewed by phone. Workshop Tuition includes Quodoushka Manual, Lunches and snacks Thursday through Sunday. Our local Quodoushka Organizer will assist you with lodging. Once you register you will receive all the information you will need to attend, including travel assistance, workshop location and what to bring for the workshop.
To Register By Mail please read and print this Phoenix Quodoushka 1 Flyer Then fill out the information and return to the address included in the Flyer.
You can also make a $100 Deposit to reserve your space.
CANCELLATION POLICY: If you notify us more than 10 days before the event, there is a $100 non-refundable fee for office expenses. If it is less than 10 days, there is a $250 non-refundable fee.
For More Information Please Contact:
AMARA CHARLES 602 820 4661 amara@amaracharles.com
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Up until this point I was looking at this site as a reasonable critique of nuage misuse of Native America traditions. There is plenty on the Harley Regan sites to be angered over. But before I go there. I want to say, please don't confuse cultural/religious beliefs with science. No one would say "White Buffalo Calf Woman does not exist". She is a figure in a sacred story, as far as I know. We don't hold story to the same standard of "reality" as we do science. Chakras are part of a healing tradition that is older than western medicine.
To understand the reason for calling sex sacred is because in EuroAmerican Christian Tradition, sex is evil of the devil.
Now back to Harley. Sex is only one part of his ripoff of Native People. He claims a lineage going back to 1250 AD or BC where all traditions were woven together. He charges for his stuff. He has supporters all over the world. He is why I came to this site in the first place today, and it wasn't about sex. Please refrain from attacking other legitimate cultures in your efforts to illuminate the frauds in the nuage movement and their ripoff of native traditions. He also claims to be Metis.
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I was responding to a post six pages back. The way this is set up there is no way to respond to a single post. sorry if I am out of sequence. It is so important to the dredibility of this site that we expose facts and make sure our opinions are well thought out. I know how distressing some of this can be but when we rant in ways that are exposing our own prejudices we erode the legitimacy of the site. I know some of those people who are deluded by Harvey and his ilk and unfortunately they are helped by some of what is done and I'm not talking about the sex stuff. I grew up in many ways in the nuage movement. It was both helpful and damaging. It was helpful in those aspects that helped me to become more aware of our connection to all beings. It was harmful in that I suffered rape at the hands of more than one therapist in the movement. One in the name of trying to convince me that I was not a lesbian. He was Stanley Keleman. Kingpin in Bioenergetic therapy. When I got pregnant he made me go to a notary and sign a paper relieving him of all responsibility. So yes, I know the destructive side of the nuage movement. And I am sick of the ripoff of truely native cultures. But how does one learn from them?
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I was responding to a post six pages back. The way this is set up there is no way to respond to a single post. sorry if I am out of sequence.
Fáilte, Eileen :) Look at the title of this post you want to respond to. To the right of the title is an icon and next to it the word "Quote". Click on that, and it will copy the post into your message, so it will be clear what you're responding to.
I'm so sorry for the abuse you have been subjected to. I knew a couple people lured in by Reagan's crew. The group seems to attract those with no sexual boundaries, who are already prone to abusing others sexually. Yet they also seem to draw those with a lot of pain around their sexuality, who think this will help them. I've seen both types be drawn to them. Those with a lot of pain and conflict seem to have been hurt the most, because they don't trust their judgement. Sexual predators are skilled at spotting that and manipulate the seekers into substituting the abuser's judgement for their own.
And I am sick of the ripoff of truely native cultures. But how does one learn from them?
I'm not sure what you're asking here. It depends on what you want to learn. We have a lot of threads in the Etc. and Non-Frauds section where people discuss learning from or about Native cultures. If you don't see what you're looking for, you can start a thread there yourself. :)
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It was harmful in that I suffered rape at the hands of more than one therapist in the movement. One in the name of trying to convince me that I was not a lesbian. He was Stanley Keleman. Kingpin in Bioenergetic therapy. When I got pregnant he made me go to a notary and sign a paper relieving him of all responsibility. So yes, I know the destructive side of the nuage movement.
Hello Eileen, and welcome to the boards
I am horrified to hear of your abuse at the hands of "therapists", but also not surprised
Unfortunately there are many corrupt, predatory and just plain deluded therapists who use the pretext of energy therapy to sexually and otherwise abuse patients. Some of these "therapists" are members of the deer tribe, some are members of "schools of tantra" or even own their own "tantric" businesses. Typically they claim to release sexual blockages and cure trauma trapped in the body via sexual massage. Some claim to be able to recover repressed memories of childhood sexual abuse by sexual massage. These "therapists" are both male and female. Unfortunately these depraved practices are fairly widespread leaving countless victims feeling traumatised, violated and often extremely confused by what has happened to them.
Yours is the first instance that I have heard of involving "corrective rape" (a common term in South Africa where lesbians are frequently raped to "turn" them heterosexual).
Thank you for bringing Stanley Keleman to my attention. He joins the depressingly long list on "therapists" on my radar.
I hope you don't mind me asking but have you been able to get any support from friends and family after the rapes? Do you feel that you are in a safe place now where you are understood? I hope that we can at least be some support to you here.
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http://www.ten-no-kishi.com/aifaa.htm
Chulukua-Ryu
Our dojo is the global headquarters of the American Indian Fighting Arts Association (AIFAA), the first genuinely American martial arts organization accredited by the International Society of Black Belts.
We honor and pay our respects to the late great Grandfather Tom "Two Bears" Wilson, Navajo Medicine Man and former President of the Navajo Native American Church, for handing down many of the teachings of this unique martial arts system. Upon Grandfather's crossing over in 1980, SwiftDeer became the worldwide Soke of the AIFAA.
Harley SwiftDeer Reagan is of Cherokee and Irish decent. Over a period of 25 years, Soke SwiftDeer visited approximately 178 different Native American tribes who shared with him some of their unique martial arts or "warrior arts." To those who trust us with this sacred and extraordinary knowledge, we give many thanks for the privilege of carrying this rich heritage. In total, SwiftDeer received a staggering 175 techniques that ranged from simple but effective Apache hand throws to tomahawk techniques to scissor kicks against an opponent on horseback. Holding 9th-Degree Red/White/Black Belts in Jiu-Jitsu and Karate, SwiftDeer weaved all these systems together to synthesize an entirely new martial art which he dubbed "Chulukua Ryu."
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We have a few threads on this one, and mentions in many others. I'm going to consolidate this with those.
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Harley Swiftdeer Reagan = Claude Harley Reagan, born 1941 Texas. He says he is Cherokee and Irish, his Cherokee claim has already been debunked. He does have Irish ancestors, several born Ireland in the mid 1700s and passed away in North Carolina. He also has earlier immigrant ancestors from England.
His genealogy can be pieced together through ancestry.com along with http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/r/e/i/Lorene-H-Reid/GENE1-0018.html (http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/r/e/i/Lorene-H-Reid/GENE1-0018.html) which lists his parents names and focuses on his mother's lineage, and with http://timcdfw.com/genealogy/getperson.php?personID=I2554&tree=ChildressMain (http://timcdfw.com/genealogy/getperson.php?personID=I2554&tree=ChildressMain) which has info on his father's lineage.
He claims a Cherokee grandmother named Spotted Fawn. Actually his grandmothers are both Texans, white in census.
Great grandparents surnames - Reagan, McCuistion, Wyatt, Rogers, Raper, McClure, King, Mayo. Many branches of his family tree are detailed online, looks like lots of family members are active in genealogy, there are even photos and stories included.
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Informative article on Harley "Swiftdeer" Reagan, "Harley Swiftdeer Reagan's theft of a spiritual lineage from a Navajo family" by Friedrich Abel:
http://sustainedreaction.yuku.com/topic/6850/Harley-SwiftDeer-Reagans-theft-spiritual-lineage-Navajo
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I received an email of concern that Mukee Okan of the Deer Tribe is coming to Australia and will be holding Quodoushka workshops. She is working with Satyananda, a yoga group that had quite a history of sexual abuse of followers.
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Hi from Melbourne
Yes, she is. She has networks set up. I have been amused recently to note that Okan is more or less 'spamming' the fb pages of her current alternative community contacts in Melbourne, but this year there are one or two people responding to her posts (rather than the curious dozens who responded a couple of years ago)
I wonder what she will do next, because I think that a lot of the people who were initially interested have moved onto whatever the next novelty is. I have been watching the pages I know of but I'm not seeing a lot of dialogue on line or 'word on the street'
Don't know about the rest of Aus but will keep this forum posted
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Link to her current advertised gigs.
Batty Thunderbear still working with her as well
Admins I haven't posted here for a long time, assuming its fine to post links?
http://ozsacredsexuality.com/victoria/
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Just ignore the notice that says to start a new thread. I'd get rid of that if I knew how. It's always best to keep all the info in one thread.
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Australian update:
Okan ran programs in Ballina, near Byron Bay, in March 2015
She is currently seeking expressions of interest in offering a program in Victoria (south eastern Aus)
I note that someone is claiming the Q people are connected to the Satyananda ashram
If anyone has any hard facts linking the two organisations that would be helpful, as I am fairly sure that some people interested in Q do find their way to this board
In the meantime here is some of the information regarding abuse at Satyananda Ashram in Aus that has currently come to light.
Article from Aus' national broadcaster:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-04/victim-recounts-being-raped-during-ritual-at-satyananda-ashram/5945010
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"someone", sorry, Al
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More on Satyananda in Australia
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-03/child-abuse-royal-commission-nsw-yoga-retreat/5938936
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-01/child-abuse-inquiry-to-investigate-central-coast-yoga-retreat/5932454
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The genealogy link I posted earlier does not look to be entirely accurate. Any current descendants of Reagan would need to have professional genealogy work done or at least study up themselves on proper genealogical methods. And definitely always double check any genealogy work I lay out.
Looks like Harley Reagan's maternal grandfather was enrolled, his mother was not.
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Claude Harley Reagan
Texas, Birth Index
Name Claude Harley Reagan
Event Type Birth
Event Date 09 Jun 1941
Event Place Lynn, Texas
Gender Male
Father's Name Jno Reagan Reagan
Mother's Name Ida Mae Raper
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V8WP-8FK (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V8WP-8FK)
Claude Henry Reagan's parents were Johnny Jefferson Reagan and Ida Mae Raper.
Name Ida Mae Raper
Birth Date 11 Apr 1924
Birth Place Hale Center, Hale
Father William Harley Raper
Mother Johnnie Edmond King
(Ancestry.com. Texas, Birth Certificates, 1903-1932 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2013.
Original data: Texas Department of State Health Services. Texas Birth Certificates, 1903–1932. iArchives, Orem, Utah.)
Ida Mae Raper's father applied for enrollment in the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians of North Carolina. He was accepted, his children were not.
Cherokee Indian Agency
Cherokee, North Carolina
April 30, 1928
Mr. Harley Raper
Hale Center, Texas
Dear Sir:
You are hereby notified that the Eastern Cherokee Enrolling Commission has decided to recommend your enrollment with the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians of North Carolina under the Act of June 4, 1924. Your children have been rejected on the ground that they were born separate and apart from the Eastern Band of your marriage to a white woman, and they have never had any association with nor recognition by the said Band as members thereof.
(Ancestry.com. U.S., Cherokee Baker Roll and Records, 1924-1929 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2013.
Original data: The 1928 Baker Roll and Records of the Eastern Cherokee Enrolling Commission, 1924–1929. Microfilm M2104, 69 rolls. Records of the Bureau of Indian Affairs, Record Group 75. The National Archives and Records Administration, Washington, D.C.)
William Harley Raper's claim was through his father Barry Bruce Raper/ Berry B.B. Raper, grandfather Alexander Raper, paternal grandmother Catherine McDaniel.
In the 1931 Eastern Cherokee census roll Berry B. B. Raper is listed as 1/4 N.C. Cherokee.
From Berry B.B. Raper's (Claude Harley Reagan's great grandfather) application:
I know that my father, his sisters and brothers claimed their relation to the Eastern Band Cherokee Indians, visited them and attended their councils and elections, and it is common history that the older ones, older than I, made contributions to their buying property and making settlements about disputed lines of their lands. I know very little personally execpt by contact, conversations and history.
I have attended their councils, visited them in person many a time, and after I was grown and married they visited my own home and I visited them. I have twice participated in the distribution of money apportioned to Eastern Band Cherokee.
(same source as above)
In Berry B.B. Raper's application he stated he was 1/8 Eastern Cherokee.
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Claude Harley Reagan's father is Johnnie Jefferson Reagan, a registered sex offender http://www.homefacts.com/offender-detail/TX00154460/Johnnie-Jefferson-Reagan.html
http://www.texaspredators.com/SexOffender.aspx?oid=14974
1998 disposition, indeceny with a child sexual contact. Victim a 10 year old girl.
Claude Harley Reagan's parents Johnnie Jefferson Reagan and Ida Mae Reagan in 1940 census https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K4SM-T6P
Recent public records https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KG1M-79T
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Claude Harley Reagan's (Harley Swiftdeer Reagan) mother's obit http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=120903889&ref=acom
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This explains quite a bit, since abuse often runs in families. HR often claimed he was "initiated" into sex at age 10 by his "Cherokee grandmother." I don't recall any mention by him of contact between him and any of his family, beyond the Cherokee grandma story. It surprises me both his parents outlived him, and that there's a brother I never heard of who apparently had a big family. I don't recall any children from HR.
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HR does have three sons from a prior marriage, all born in early 1960s.
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I don't believe HR had a "Cherokee grandmother" that "initiated" him. His distant ancestry is on his mother's side, this does not include his maternal grandmother.
My guess now is that HR was abused. He then abused many, many others.
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File Number:
F00602681
Corporation Name:
DEER TRIBE METIS-MEDICINE SOCIETY
Domestic Address
12201 N. 64TH STREET
SCOTTSDALE, AZ 85254
Foreign Address
CT CORPORATION SYSTEM
818 W 7TH ST
LOS ANGELES, CA 90017
Agent Name: ROSEMARY DE COURSEY
Agent Mailing Address:
P. O. BOX 12397
SCOTTSDALE, AZ 85267
Agent Physical Address:
12201 N. 64TH STREET
SCOTTSDALE, AZ 85254
Agent Status: APPOINTED 03/14/2002
Agent Last Updated: 04/11/2002
Entity Type: NON-PROFIT Business Type: RELIGIOUS
Incorporation Date: 1/19/1993 Corporation Life Period: PERPETUAL
Domicile: CALIFORNIA County: MARICOPA
Approval Date: 1/19/1993 Original Publish Date: 2/2/1993
Name Title Address Date of Taking Office Last Updated
MATT LORE CHAIRMAN
2945 S COUNTRY CLUB WAY
TEMPE, AZ 85282
01/23/2015 05/15/2015
JANICE C HOLMES SECRETARY
PO BOX 13771
SCOTTSDALE, AZ 85267
01/23/2015 05/15/2015
BONNIE ZITO TREASURER
45305 N 16TH ST
NEW RIVER, AZ 85087
01/23/2015 05/15/2015
INGRID LIEPA VICE-PRESIDENT
BOX 172 STN MAIN
KIMBERLY, BC V1A -2Y6
01/23/2015 05/15/2015
Director Information
Name Title Address Date of Taking Office Last Updated
TIM MCDONALD DIRECTOR
5 POPLAR PARK
PLEASANT RIDGE, MI 48069
01/23/2015 05/15/2015
JANNEKA KOOLE DIRECTOR
PO BOX 26277
PHOENIX, AZ 85068
01/23/2015 05/15/2015
They are keeping up with their annual reports. The above info from Arizona corporation search http://ecorp.azcc.gov/Details/Corp?corpId=F00602681 (http://ecorp.azcc.gov/Details/Corp?corpId=F00602681)
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Deer Tribe listing in California corporation search:
Entity Name: DEER TRIBE METIS-MEDICINE SOCIETY
Entity Number: C1367587
Date Filed: 03/07/1986
Status: ACTIVE
Jurisdiction: CALIFORNIA
Entity Address: P. O. BOX 12397
Entity City, State, Zip: SCOTTSDALE AZ 85267
Agent for Service of Process: C T CORPORATION SYSTEM
Agent Address: 818 WEST SEVENTH ST STE 930
Agent City, State, Zip: LOS ANGELES CA 90017
-------------------
Assets: $1,414,069
Income: $568,139
Expenses: $591,197
Liabilities: $546,150
Areas Served: Based in Scottsdale, AZ, DTMMS has membership groups in 20 states and 15 countries.
Ruling Year: 1993
Financial information in this report is derived from the organization's 2013 Form 990
http://www2.guidestar.org/ViewPdf.aspx?PdfSource=0&ein=95-4307294 (http://www2.guidestar.org/ViewPdf.aspx?PdfSource=0&ein=95-4307294)
This is an active, busy, international group https://www.dtmms.org/
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HR's wife Dianne has the Arizona corporation Thunder Strikes Productions Inc.
15319527 THUNDER STRIKES PRODUCTIONS INC
6044 N MOCKINGBIRD LN
PARADISE VALLEY, AZ 85253
Entity Type: BUSINESS
Business Type: GENERAL CONSULTING
Incorporation Date: 9/1/2009
Corporation Life Period: PERPETUAL
Domicile: ARIZONA County: MARICOPA
Dianne Reagan is CEO, Director, Secretary, and Treasurer.
http://ecorp.azcc.gov/Details/Corp?corpId=%2015319527
Deer Tribe Gun Club http://www.thunderstrikes.com/gunclub.htm
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I don't believe HR had a "Cherokee grandmother" that "initiated" him. His distant ancestry is on his mother's side, this does not include his maternal grandmother.
My guess now is that HR was abused. He then abused many, many others.
I didn't mean to give the false impression he actually did have that relative. That's just his offensive claim, trying to use the Cherokee grandma lie to legitimize his abuse, perhaps done both to him and by him.
That he had a family before this makes all he did even more appalling, abandoning that family to become an exploiter and cult leader. When he died, I don't recall any mention of anyone by name in his family mourning him. No one but the second wife Dianne Reagan. And I also recall he once proudly claimed to be a polygamist. Seemingly any additional wives left him.
His memorial website claim 160 people came to the funeral, and a bit under 50 left words of tribute on the site. That seems amazingly small for a cult that claims several thousand members. The cult leaders also stayed in typical character, asking for money for the funeral and to keep the cult going. This from a cult worth almost a million and a half in assets, with several businesses, and with almost a half million in annual income.
Stay classy...
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I actually was not communicating clearly there, I was thinking out loud in an attempt to regain my bearings in this research, HR and crew are sure disturbing to read up on.
I wonder what HR's will looked like. And if Dianne "Nightbird" Reagan is currently active in the cult machine.