Morning Star Shawnee and Chaliawa Nation

[Keely]

There is a group that has formed calling themselves Morning Star Shawnee and Chaliawa Nation. Both are frauds.

Members of the group Morning Star have been notified by the Federal Government to stop selling their trinkets and beadwork as Indian made. They are in violation of the US Indian Arts and Crafts Act.

A few people who are part of this group has recently began to send threatening emails, of which will sound familiar here, that threat would be that the "Mohawk Nation" is going to come and "take care" of some members here. One of the more recent threats to me has been that the Mohawk Nation is gonna get me, (ha) and that the Cherokee Nation is supposed to come and put me in my place, then remove my enrollment...

The persons involved in sending threats to some of the members here like to come here and read... so I will tell everyone, and some will already know, that yes, I am enrolled in the Cherokee Nation, I am Shawnee, the history of the Shawnee was at one time all people of my tribe was enrolled in the CNO, in 2000, Bill Clinton signed into law the separation of the Shawnee's from the Cherokee Nation, at that time members of the tribe were allowed to enroll in the Shawnee tribe, or remain with the CNO. I chose to leave my membership in the CNO. My card is from the CNO, it reads on it that I am Shawnee. There is nothing the stalker here can do about it.

I also have a cousin who is on the CNO Council, and again, there is nothing the stalker can do about that.

Sending threats in emails is a felony.

Should members of the fraudulant group  Morning Star continue to sell their items as Indian made, which is against the law, I will continue to to report them to the Indian Arts and Crafts board.

I understand the self proclaimed "chief" of thsi group is running around wearing a full head dress... and I can only wonder if that is his halloween cosutme.

How soon will it be that these people start their own sweat lodges? Or are they doing it already?

[E.P. Grondine]

Hi Keely -

Where are these folks operating?

On a more personal note, why did you choose CNO instead of Shawnee?  You could PM with an answer if you feel it necessary. The Shawnee are so scattered and so much in need of unity and strengthened leaders, and you could have done much good there.

Just PODIA Ed
- enough bq for diabetes and stroke, but not enough for the casino

[Don Naconna]

This thread and the Renz thread should be moved to frauds. Clearly these groups and people are trying to get paid for impersonating Indian people. Also I do believe that from what I've seen from these people including Niiki that there is criminal activity (stalking and slander) going on. I also believe that these people are mentally ill and should seek help.

[Keely]

Actually, the Shawnee people are not scattered. There are only three tribes of Shawnee, the Eastern, Absentee and the Shawnee of Oklahoma. There are no other tribes of Shawnee.

The group of "Morning Star" are out of Shelby, Ohio. The Chaliawa are just people who live around the Ohio area. Both groups are rather confused as to what they claim they are.

Why did I stay with the CNO? The answer is quite simple, there are too many problems within the Shawnee Nation, too much strife. It does not matter which tribe I am enrolled with, I am still Shawnee. My people have been enrolled with the Cherokee Nation for over 100 years... and when the Shawnee tribe council can put their people first and not their own selfish needs, then I would consider to change membership... It is very long, and detailed as to what has happend to many Shawnee people when they moved their membership that I refuse to do this to my family. Futher, there are Elders who feel I am right in my decission and to why I made my decission.

[E.P. Grondine]

Actually, the Shawnee people are not scattered. There are only three tribes of Shawnee, the Eastern, Absentee and the Shawnee of Oklahoma. There are no other tribes of Shawnee.

The group of "Morning Star" are out of Shelby, Ohio. The Chaliawa are just people who live around the Ohio area. Both groups are rather confused as to what they claim they are.

Why did I stay with the CNO? The answer is quite simple, there are too many problems within the Shawnee Nation, too much strife. It does not matter which tribe I am enrolled with, I am still Shawnee. My people have been enrolled with the Cherokee Nation for over 100 years... and when the Shawnee tribe council can put their people first and not their own selfish needs, then I would consider to change membership... It is very long, and detailed as to what has happend to many Shawnee people when they moved their membership that I refuse to do this to my family. Futher, there are Elders who feel I am right in my decission and to why I made my decission.

Thanks for the heads-up on these people, but are they lost PODIA, entire fraudsters like Jerry Pope, or just really confused people looking for a Native American solution to their confusion? Would you provide some more details please? It would look that a lot of this may be the consequences of Jerry Pope's fraud.

If PODIA, if they were to call themselves a "Band" instead of a tribe, would that be proper, in your opinion? What kind of word would be best for a heritage group? I attended the Ohio Native Ancestry Association powwow - in your opinion, is that an acceptable name for PODIA heritage groups? A Native Ancestry Association?

Your decision and comments reflect what I was saying - the Shawnee are scattered, leadership in dis-array.

You mentioned that your ancestors received refuge with the Cherokee, and from what you said about the Elders my guess is that you received proper Cherokee teaching.

You only mentioned the groups recognized by the US government. Part of Tecumseh's followers received refuge with the Ojibwe in Canada after the Battle of the Thames. Now they think of themselves as Shawnee, and I would think that they are.

I understand that the Piqua group is recognized by the state of Alabama. Your thinking on this, please.

[LittleOldMan]

E.P. and Keely  http://www.aiac.state.al.us/tribes.aspx  This is the site of the Alabama Indian Affairs Commission. Piqua Group is shown on this list along with e-mail addy's and web pages.  I am not making a qualifying statement here just a research addendum FYI.   "LittleOldMan"

[Keely]

EP,

My tribe has NEVER been Cherokee, we are Shawnee, we never gave up our traditions, our ceremonies, our language or our culture. We always maintained our own council through the many years that our tribe was a part of the CNO.. but never, ever, have we been Cherokee. My teachings are Shawnee.

The best thing for a "heritage group" is to leave us alone... if someone wants to know something about our people going to a heritage group is not going to teach them anything... they need to come to us!

The "piqua" group you mentioned did have recognition in Kentucky. State recognition should be outlawed, because there are a few states which will recognize any group, ie Kentucky... the piqua group is from Ohio, now, why would Kentucky give them recognition since they are not in Kentucky? Or even Alabama? Not unless this is a whole different group in Alabama... Soon I am sure Jerry Pope will show up in one of those states just to get his recognition that he so desperatly seeks.
'

[Keely]

E.P. and Keely  http://www.aiac.state.al.us/tribes.aspx  This is the site of the Alabama Indian Affairs Commission. Piqua Group is shown on this list along with e-mail addy's and web pages.  I am not making a qualifying statement here just a research addendum FYI.   "LittleOldMan"

Oh I see now.. Don Rankin started that group in Alabama... figures, he has been a wannabe for a long, long time, and now has learned how to get himself recognized... He used to live in Ohio for many, many years... He even tried to start a "tribe" and named them "Eastern Loyal Shawnee" then used my family names as his "support" to the point, we actually got his website removed. He had photos of my family on his site, he had our names on there, and he did it all without our permission.

Well, this just goes to show, you can get a group of skunks State recognition as a Indian tribe in the state of Alabama... and another reason I think state recognition is nothing more than a joke.

[E.P. Grondine]

EP,

My tribe has NEVER been Cherokee, we are Shawnee, we never gave up our traditions, our ceremonies, our language or our culture. We always maintained our own council through the many years that our tribe was a part of the CNO.. but never, ever, have we been Cherokee. My teachings are Shawnee."

My apologies, Keely. From what you said about going with the CNO instead of the Shawnee, I made a huge mistake. I am sorry about that, even though I am pretty sure you are well versed in Cherokee teachings as well.

I hope you will take none of my questions personally. As I have mentioned repeatedly, these are problems that every people face or will face soon. As a PODIA myself (mostly Shawnee), I face them as well.

"The best thing for a "heritage group" is to leave us alone... if someone wants to know something about our people going to a heritage group is not going to teach them anything... they need to come to us!"

Ah, but which "us"? Loyal, Eastern Remnant, or Absentee? Given the cost of the trip west and back, that is not possible for many, and without some kind of heritage organization, that leaves the east open for frauds to operate.

Further, as it now sits, the outcome of such a visit west lies in the hands of fate (katet).

By the way, the Ancestral Association of which I spoke was not specific to any one people.

The "piqua" group you mentioned did have recognition in Kentucky. State recognition should be outlawed, because there are a few states which will recognize any group, ie Kentucky... the piqua group is from Ohio, now, why would Kentucky give them recognition since they are not in Kentucky? Or even Alabama? Not unless this is a whole different group in Alabama...

As I understand it, and I may be wrong, the Piqua started in Indiana, then spread to Alabama, where they received state recognition, and now own land in Kentucky and have many members throughout the eastern United States, including Ohio.

Soon I am sure Jerry Pope will show up in one of those states just to get his recognition that he so desperately seeks.

Not likely.

While I know the questions, the answers are not mine to give.
I hope you understand.

PODIA Ed
(enough for diabetes and stroke, but not enough for the casino)

[Moma_porcupine]

Hi EP Groundine

EP Groundine

PODIA Ed
(enough for diabetes and stroke, but not enough for the casino)

 You have twice pointed out that you have enough BQ to get a stroke and diabetes but not a casino. This comment assumes your misfortune of having suffered a stroke and diabetes comes directly from your Native heritage   It seems you are trying to get people to feel sorry for you - and that somehow this is unfair because you are suffering afflictions from your native heritage, but you aren't getting any of the benifits..   The problem is, this doesn't seem honest, as your assumption your health problems are a consquence of having some Native blood is doubtful. Lots of people who are purely of European origins also have strokes and develope diabetes.

EP Groundine

If PODIA, if they were to call themselves a "Band" instead of a tribe, would that be proper, in your opinion? What kind of word would be best for a heritage group?

There is lots of threads talking about what makes a tribe a tribe , and you already started a thread asking if it would be OK if people who are PODIAs could call their heritage group an Indian band,

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2387.0

Everybody told you NO ... And here you are, diverting a thread about what appears to be a bogus Shawnee claim, asking the same question again. Apparently really wanting a different answer. 
 
Do you really think people are going to say - "Oh!!! you have diabetes and Shawnee ancestry but no casino and you can't even be a member of an Indian band or get bonafide Shawnee teachings in your own community. That is so not fair!!! Of course it's OK for you and whoever else has some Shawnee descent to get together and create a heritage group and call it a band."

This seems to me to be obviously silly ....

Sorry to further divert this thread by responding to this ...   

[taraverti]

Wow! Lots of assumptions there, Momma P! When I read that statement, I just thought it was a joke! (that was my assumption)

I do remember the thread about "band" not being an appropriate name for a heritage group, though.

Edited to add:

EP. specifically asked Keely for her opinion though. She had not responded to the other thread.

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

I thought it was an attempt at humor as well, and did not take it seriously.  But I can see and understand Moma P's view, and that it could be seen as such.. especially on a forum where you really don't know a person well enough to know what their humor is and what it isn't.  For some, the comment may not be humorous at all in any way.  Forums are difficult places sometimes for communications and personalities.  All we see is the typed words, there is a lot lacking in communication and personalities with just typed words. 

[taraverti]

I thought it was an attempt at humor as well, and did not take it seriously.  But I can see and understand Moma P's view, and that it could be seen as such.. especially on a forum where you really don't know a person well enough to know what their humor is and what it isn't.  For some, the comment may not be humorous at all in any way.  Forums are difficult places sometimes for communications and personalities.  All we see is the typed words, there is a lot lacking in communication and personalities with just typed words.  

So true .....

[Moma_porcupine]

I understood it was sort of a joke, in so far as EP Groundine probably doesn't really expect a casino, but even as a joke this line of thought depends on the assumption of a link between having a stroke or diabetes and being of Native descent , and the only punch line I can see is the suggestion that all this is somehow not fair to a people who are descendents. Ha ha .

 Maybe I am just exceptionally crabby today, but I find this more offensive than funny.

I guess my reaction is because this "joke" is a part of a serious ongoing discussion where EP Groundine says they feel federal tribes aren't doing enough to help descendents

For example , there is the comment below , made in this thread

EP Groundine

Given the cost of the trip west and back, that is not possible for many, and without some kind of heritage organization, that leaves the east open for frauds to operate.

and more in the link below starting in reply #1

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2279.0

Maybe this is an idea that should be discussed, but I guess I get annoyed when it gets brought up in a thread discussing bogus groups claiming to be tribes. If a dialog about the possibilites of integrating distant descendents is going to happen , it seems it would be respectful to bring this up as a seperate discussion, and if federally recognized people don't want to participate, that is their choice.

To bring this up in the middle of a thread where a tribe / tribal person is fighting to retain their identity , displacing the dialog about the offending group, with suggesting some kind of a concession needs to be made to gain support, seems kind of manipulative.

This is what I am seeing and why this 'joke' made in this context has me reacting with a more annoyance than may be reasonable.

Anyway, I apologize if my reaction was harsh, and I appreciate Taraverti for sticking up for EP Groundine. Maybe they deserve this and I am just in an exceptionally bad mood today.

[taraverti]

Momma P,

Thank you for the explanation of what you found offensive. I appreciate it. 

I have thoughts about several of the issues you raised, and agree, this is not where it belongs. I'm going to do some thinking, compose my thoughts, and continue in the new thread Blackwolf has started in Etcetera.