Bullshido Forums for Eastern Tradition and Martial Art Frauds

[kahtboosted]

http://www.bullshido.net/
this is not a site about spiritual frauds, but they have done similar work on occasion. They have investigated some of the fake and abusive Eastern (Asian) lineages/teachers. It is a forum mostly about martial arts, but they have looked into certain Taoist and Buddhist masters, lineages, etc (the connection here being that they often teach martial arts as at least a part of their lineage, and some teachers are rather dangerous. Some also practice medicine without licenses).

This may be useful or relevant to researchers here at NAFPS, simply because the new agers are beginning to mix eastern teachings with the bogus culture-raping 'shaman' stuff. There is already a well-known and wealthy taoist lineage now marketing a form of 'shamanism' which mixes celtic stuff with some appropriated Lakota medicine wheel stuff (taught by a known fraud). There are a few other examples I've seen of this new-age intermixing... and I'm sure we will be seeing more of it with the globalization of cross-cultural consumerism.
Such stuff is especially offensive to people with an authentic multi-cultural upbringing/background. The new age consumer mentality just has this tendency to cheapen multiple cultural traditions by making it all look 'universal' and interchangeable. For them, it isn't 'spiritual' to understand crucial things such as historical, social and cultural context, etc, so the new age sells people these offensive, simplistic, ignorant ideas about various traditions. Heck, even many anthropologists and other academics sell this same type of arrogant thinking, but thats a whole separate discussion....

[retitled thread- Al]

[Epiphany]

The Bullshido forum is great, has helped with frauds like Gudni Gudnason here http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=4115.msg34963#msg34963, Harley Reagan, Adrian Roman and others.

Another example of some of their relevant work: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2853.msg24347#msg24347

[AClockworkWhite]

NAFPS: New Asian Frauds and Plastic Sensei.

[kahtboosted]

Piff- Good to see you guys are already using the site. And lol about the links about Native martial arts. I know of another example of a so-called 'native' martial arts school. I think they were in Canada, and they actually based all their forms on Korean martial arts, but claimed the moves were from 'Chippewa' and others. Will have to look them up, I'm sure theyll be discussed here or on bullshido, lol.

Pretendstobe1/8th- lol. To be honest, 'plastic sensei' and 'mcdojos' are a dime a dozen, cant even keep track of them. But hey, the consumerist amerikkkan parents gotta have something to keep their consumerist kids busy while they are at their consumer-culture yoga class. I'm mostly just concerned with spreading info on some of the more dangerous fake teachers, or the ones who start ripping off other cultures and mixing whatever traditions they like to claim into it.

[Autumn]

NAFPS: New Asian Frauds and Plastic Sensei.

Good one, PTB1/8!  I had to look "sensei" up.  Plastic teachers -- there are plenty of those for sure.

I am not saying that this guy is one, but he looks sort of, well, something.

[kahtboosted]

Well, there are a lot of silly folks in the martial arts world. But by nature, the spirit of martial arts goes against poking fun at people.

Sensei is also not a universal term, although white people love to apply it to every martial art. Having practice martial arts but no Japanese martial arts, I have countless times have had to see white people be educated that no, we dont have senseis and dojos. When a white person walks into the Korean or Chinese martial arts school, calling the place a dojo, and asking for the sensei, it is a rather common scene, but still reflects their ignorance of that particular culture in question. Most get all huffy the first time you correct them also, lol.

[kahtboosted]

I cant speak on the silly looking sensei you posted a picture of, but he seems dubious/fake, and here the is the bullshido thread poking fun at him. http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19891

I've seen some other silly looking white guys in martial arts, lol. But I have no reason to poke fun at them. Not unless they are harming people or misrepresenting lineages/cultures/etc. Otherwise, they can just be their silly self with their silly students and I won't mind. lol.

[Autumn]

Well, there are a lot of silly folks in the martial arts world. But by nature, the spirit of martial arts goes against poking fun at people.

Sensei is also not a universal term, although white people love to apply it to every martial art. Having practice martial arts but no Japanese martial arts, I have countless times have had to see white people be educated that no, we dont have senseis and dojos. When a white person walks into the Korean or Chinese martial arts school, calling the place a dojo, and asking for the sensei, it is a rather common scene, but still reflects their ignorance of that particular culture in question. Most get all huffy the first time you correct them also, lol.

(My bolding)

Oops!  I have never done any martial arts so I guess I am exempt.

The comments at Bushido at the link you provided are pretty funny though.

[kahtboosted]

well the martial arts world has it share of silly people, that's for darn sure. You'd think maybe you seen it all when you read a forum like this and hear about all the new age behavior. But nope, sometimes the martial arts can have just as much silliness.

But in all honesty, people who practice martial arts honestly, and who respect the traditional philosophies, usually tend to be pretty grounded and down-to-earth people. Some of the arts are really more like moving forms of meditation and focusing on balance, those sort of thing. Ofcourse there are branches which are more focused on other goals, and sometimes it gets pretty out there with certain behaviors or the claims some make.

[AClockworkWhite]

You guys ever run across this guy George J. Lépine who does that Okichitaw stuff? I was wondering if he's legit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okichitaw

[kahtboosted]

I think these are one of the groups I saw before which I was thinking of.

I will check out bullshido before making much comments on it. I'd prefer to hear comments from people among the tribes that they claim their moves are from. As we know, there are no "Native Martial Arts". So restructuring some Korean forms and then giving the practices names like "four directions medicine wheel teachings" and the "seven grandfather teachings" tends to just look like "Native" written all over an Asian martial art.

They are not the first or the last. There are a few different incidents of people selling or claiming to offering Native American martial arts. The very concept is made up though. Whatever fighting skills various tribes had traditionally, they are nothing like any Asian martial arts system, and there is no relation enough to just try to make the moves interchangeable. But if they arent hurting anybody, and they might be promoting drugfree activity among the youth, we have to simply assess to what degree or level of damage are these people either appropriating or misrepresenting. Personally, I'd never stick around for even a lesson if somebody was telling me they teach Native martial arts. It'd register in my mind the same way as "hey lets go hang out in my tiedied sweatlodge' would sound to me.

[educatedindian]

Move to Non Frauds and retitled the thread slightly. Bullshido has long seemed to be honest people dedicated to these arts, and fed up with the phonies and hustlers.

I guess this thread should also include supposed claims of Native martial arts. Like Kaht said, I haven't found anything I'd call definitive. We have a forum with many active NDN participants, and thousands of visitors. Can anyone think of any genuine so called Native martial arts?

I was asked some years ago about a claim of Apache martial arts. No such thing I know of. I imagine just about every tribe had their own versions of boxing (contrary to the silliness in old films like Little Big Man) wrestling, knife, hatchet, and club fighting. And there's sure plenty of Native vets. Hard to imagine none of them ever brought it into the service.

Should we start a thread on claims of NMA, or include it here? Found these claims so far in a brief search:
Isuna Nika-Comanche
Lua
Mau Rakau
Pahi
Lima Lama-Kahuna
Rumi Maki-Peru
Kalapalo Wrestling-Brazil

Okichitaw seems at least mixed with Asian styles. But its creator admits it's mixed, works with elders, and doesn't seem motivated by money.

[kahtboosted]

I mostly agree, and think there really isnt any harm since they're being honest about it, and it may even be a positive thing for youth. But the wiki says it has been recognized officially as an 'Indigenous Canadian martial art’. That’s really kinda bs if he drew from Korean martial arts to structure it. It’s an MMA (mixed martial arts) system. NDNs dont have any structured/organized MA systems that I know of (and if there is one maybe he should have drawn from it instead of Korean arts to organize it, if it is really about cultural preservation. Afterall, Korea is a completely different continent with different philosophical/cultural influences and a different history from NDN tribal cultures).

The art itself may be a good thing for some folks.
I am Korean-American (mother is Korean) and also have studied the martial arts he drew from (Judo, HKD, TKD). Everyday some guy ‘invents' a ‘new martial art’ out of these different arts mixed together, so I guess their isnt much harm in him doing it with NDN fighting moves and teachings mixed in.

[kahtboosted]

edit for previous post: meant to write "Korea is on a completely different continent..."

[kahtboosted]

on a different note, I do think it's pretty cool that it was the Korean Grandmaster who encouraged him to preserve his culture's fighting arts he had learned. And that his involvement in Korean martial arts was able to help him work toward that goal (however he went about it). Right on, about that part! lol.