Seeking information/clarification

[Enoe]

I have only just joined and after unsuccessfully trying the search function for the name below, I wonder if anyone here heard about this person or can offer a comment:

http://www.ohshinnahfastwolf.com

I was searching Google on information on Native American Elders when  this came up. Selling of CDs is what made me feel a bit suspect straight off but I don't wish to be dismissive out right.

One of the posters here, debbieredbear posted something about being fed up that westerners get this idea about NA's from various sources and are then disappointed when they meet the real people. I do apologise if I misquoted.
It got me thinking though, most westerners, specially in Europe, would not have a chance to meet a real Native American very easily. How can I inform myself as to what a real Native American person of today is likely to be like? I do hope this will not be seen as a flippant or irrelevant question, and I certainly do not mean to offend anyone. I just wonder, what should someone from the non-native background learn/know about NA of today?
Many thanks.

[Ingeborg]

Hi Enoe, welcome here.

There is a thread about her:
http://newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=482.0

[Enoe]

Thank you very much. Can you also tell me how to best use your Search function? (blush) I cannot find anything on this person either: http://www.centerrecords.com/centerrecords.html

[Ingeborg]

It's best if you use the search function in the bar to the left (home - help - search ...), not the one on the right hand side.

[debbieredbear]

Hi Enoe,


WE have a thread in non-frauds section called NAFPS Reccomends" There are books, videos, CDs and such listed there. If you can get books by the late Vine DeLoria, I highly reccomend any and all of his books. My favorite is God Is Red followed by Red Earth, White Lies.

Whee in England do you live? There are native people living in England. Some are members here.

[Enoe]

Many thanks for the suggestions, I have now ordered some books and a CD. Knowledge sure does not come cheap! lol

I live in East Anglia. I expect you must mean native as in from the Americas, rather than native to England? Or do you? I have noticed couple of the board members mentioning something about Wiltshire. I expect they were born elsewhere or is that presumptuous of me? I am sorry, I just don't know. However, I wouldn't want my curiosity to be a cause for an offence.

What is the general opinion on non-natives participating in sweat lodges? Sweat lodges have started becoming more popular over in the UK and with no reason to question it (until now) I had seriously considered looking into attending one. Would you advise someone like myself to just stay clear and look for other ways? Apart from anything else I wouldn't want to participate in a religious ceremony of any type and definitely not without knowing I was doing so in the first place.

Also, every beauty salon nowadays seems to have 'hopi ear candle' treatment like so: http://www.lynnehancher.co.uk/aaahop.htm#history What should I make of that? Someone must be using these treatments else they would not be as ubiquitous but I have not met a single person who has had this done. OK, it may be that I don't get out much but still..

I must seem very uncouth to you and for that I am very sorry.

[frederica]

The Hopi Ear candle can be found under frauds here Feb 2005. Check http://newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?action=search2   frederica

[educatedindian]

There's a search button at the top that should help you. No one will hold it against you, not knowing things. As you can see with our threads on Castaneda and Sr, we do get pretty frustrated when people refuse to listen after being told many times.

If you search through the site, you'll find it's pretyy dangerous to attend sweats if the leaders don't know what they're doing. Over in Europe, the ones pushing their versions of sweats nearly always don't have the training or the right to do ceremony.

And no one should do a ceremony out of curiousity or because they think it'd be cool. I know of cases of nonNatives who've done sweats after a close Native friend urged them, but they were either veterans suffering from PTSD or alcoholics looking for help.

[debbieredbear]

Hi Enoe,

Yes, I did mean natives of the US. But I also have friends in Britain and a cousin who lives outside of London. She is not American Indian.

I am like Al in that I believe one shouldn't do sweats because it was cool, but that there are still valid reasons for non-Indians to be in a sweat.

And I think asking questions is a good thing. How else will you learn something you don't know about?

[weheli]

Enoe,
Your questions are good. I have a Lakota Kola who is a 10 year Sundancer who does run a Inipi. While I am Cherokee , he has taught me much about Sweat Lodges. One question is what is the reason for you wanting to sweat? Where is your heart and what preparations have you made to prepare for this inipi?

A True Lodge person NEVER asks for money, and he must prepare his heart and be clear of mind, and this is done many days in advance. He must prepare his body also. He is responsible for who is allowed in the Lodge and also the well being of all who enter. There are many things one MUST know before entering. There are things You must/should bring to a sweat, this is told to you by the one running the Lodge before you come. Again You are Never asked for money.
While there are many who think "hey this is a cool thing" and will pay "BIG money" to have "the experience" this IS NOT what the inipi is all about.

This is all I will say on this topic.                                  Weheli

[Enoe]

Thank you all for very helpful responses. This question of sweats seems to be a big issue and I would really like to discuss it and other things a bit longer if nobody minds.

I am definitely not interested in sweat lodge experience for the cool or novelty factor. The reason I thought about it is because I have read some things in the past that made me think it may be appropriate help for my problem(s). I have been researching things around ancestral issues and the only traditions that [offer to] deal with this and are available in the UK are either oriental/chi gong etc or Native (supposedly). The chi gong and similar ceremonies are purely spiritual and cost a bit of money. I am looking for something that can help with physical health as well as spiritual issues but of course cannot discuss this in detail.

Now that I had accessed more information about sweat lodges I realise it isn't that simple and it may not be the answer I am looking for. (how can I prepare my heart?)

I have been helped greatly by an oriental sect that turned out to be some sort of cult but they did bring me back from the brink even if I did have to pay. So sometimes people who can help may charge but it still works. I don't know if that can be applied to sweat lodges and judging by the responses above the answer is very empathic no.

I know there are a lot of frauds out there but I also think it is very difficult for those who are trying to help to do so without charging in this day and age. For example, these people I went to all had day jobs and did their healing work after or inbetween or whatever.
Now I've found this great acupuncturist except that he lives half way across the world. He also charges even though he also has a day job. He is some sort of miracle worker for me and I am more than glad to pay. Perhaps in the old days I would have brought something in exchange for the treatment but since I don't make anything of use except money - that's all I can offer.
But all these examples just deal with energy blockages in the body. Maybe now it makes more sense why someone like myself would even consider sweat lodge. Person   can read books about it and while it does say that you have to be invited and you get the idea it is not just a sauna with a difference, you never quite realise just how sacred and special this is for Native people until you speak to someone (sort of) in person.

So that's it. I don't know what else to say about it. Thank you again.

[dabosijigwokush]

well said weheli

True medicine does not belong to the person giving it; the medicine belongs to the creator
The person is simply the giver; the medicine you receive was all ready yours.
You do not need a lodge to receive a healing, or a vision.
You need to clear your mind and heart and put your self in the creator’s hands totally.


To give away to some one you do not know is the greatest gift you can receive.
A true give away is never excepting any thing in return ever.

I just hope you find what you are looking for.