NAFPS Forum
General => Research Needed => Topic started by: Tsisqua on February 21, 2008, 01:03:29 pm
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What is wrong with the many white people on 360 playing native? Passing themselves off as 'teachers of our people'? Recently I discovered one such person...a white woman....from the UK...her 360 page is filled with new age garbage etc....today she sent me a mail beginning with 'Osiyo'....the greeting from my own people...so I replied...here are our mails....this womans page is:
http://uk.360.yahoo.com/profile-A2QOKiEmYrI8XRgiTxddZrcZZyU-?cq=1
NativeAmericanUnity wrote:
Forgive my question...I am simply wondering your heritage as you use the language of my people (Keetoowah Band Of Tsalagi) ie: Osiyo...but I see you are from the United Kingdom?
¥«Wyte°l|l°Dove»¥ responded:
Osiyo my friend ..no need to forgive you for what ? it is only a question !..in answer as they say im not of native blood ! but "Native American isn't blood. It is what is in the heart. The love for the land, the respect for it, those who inhabit it, and the respect and acknowledgement of the spirits and elders. That is what it is to be Indian." And in my heart i am ! if i were to be of a certain tribe i suppose then it would be of the langauge of my soul which is cherokee !..however i speak many tounges as they say as i learn so as to comunicate to my friends of different tribes and cultures this is my respect to them !...does this offend you that i am not of native blood ?...i do hope not for we are all one and all related !...have a blessed day my friend ~peace~
NativeAmericanUnity wrote:
Having a respect for the land and for people...does not make a person Native American, nor does adopting the language of Native peoples.
We as Native Americans have to daily fight to prove who we are as a people...in the form of Blood Quantum cards...Band Numbers...Heritage..family line etc...we are the only race of people on this earth who have to PROVE who we are on a daily basis...yet many non-natives find it..'respectful' to use our language and adopt our ways?...when we ourselves struggle for the right to do so?...We were and still are branded 'heathens' and 'savages'...we had our rights taken away by non native people and still today we fight to regain those rights...yet we seem to live with a generation of people who feel it necessary to 'play' native?
Being respectful of the earth...is something ALL people must be...that does not make a person Native American...being respectful of other people in this world...is something we ALL have a duty to be...that too does not make a person Native American. People should be blessed to be who THEY are...they should be proud of their OWN heritage, and not try to adopt the ways of others and play at being something they are not.
I would not adopt the white mans ways...I am Native American! I am proud of my culture and heritage...it would be disrespectful for me to adopt the ways of other people. How is it therefore you find it 'respectful'? I mean no offense...I am simply trying to understand.
Please understand...I am a traditionalist..I work hard to preserve our peoples culture and heritage...and to put a stop to the mis-use and abuse of of language and ways by non-natives.
¥«Wyte°l|l°Dove»¥ responded:
I do not profess to be native it does not say anywer that i am !and i dont think creator would like that no one is allowed to teach other than "what you call a true native"..i see this offends you that i try to teach of granfathers ways and ways of the peoples ..to try bring peace to people and heal mother earth...i dont think ure creator would like you not allowing others in because of skin or blood ..im offended !..
NativeAmericanUnity wrote:
What rights do you have as a white woman to teach the ways of native american people?
¥«Wyte°l|l°Dove»¥ responded:
why use term white woman ????? i dont like the way this is going i hear hatred in ure words and not that of love ..ok so you are offended as am i ..i wasnt aware you felt like this now i am i shall leave ure site as i do not have the blood requirements or as you so loudly say skin colour this is not godly...is there different gates into heaven because of skin or blood i think not ...ieave ure site as im not welcome...
UI shall publish on my posts ure replies see what others think ...
NativeAmericanUnity wrote:
excellent idea...as too will I alert NAFPS and other groups to a non native claiming the right to teach native ways. Your offended? You have no idea of our people. Do you live on a reservation? Do you have to fight for your rights to just 'be'? No...Native people have the right to teach native people...not non natives who use it simply as a means to be 'different' or to fit into the 'new age' ideals of playing ndn.
Why do these people feel it necessary to do this??
With respect Tsisqua (NAU)
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This woman has since shut her blog down to all but her friends...hiding her true colors.
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I see she calls herself a "newage twinkie" on her home page.
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I'm continually amazed, even after all this time, that white people will accuse others of racism when their own racist behaviour is highlighted.
If I was to put on blackface make-up and waltz down the street singing 'Mammy', nobody would question whether that was offensive. I would be thought deranged if I then insisted I was doing it to show my respect for black people. What this person's doing is no different.
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some of her friends lol
http://360.yahoo.com/profile-vT7GUcUjdKS.GSX7apne.jxo
http://360.yahoo.com/profile-8XpHsUYmerSAA5gZRrR.4iyYvKo-?cq=1
http://360.yahoo.com/profile-WBtfQR4yabNxywhf5VS6YMI-?cq=1
http://de.360.yahoo.com/profile-Iuc06egidLWnfrr2_CmTIHbJ
http://360.yahoo.com/profile-0Dy8WGQmeqi2jFXyiEzhUN3LFIEh2mQ-?cq=1
let them know what she said ,some other (natives) in there
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I would suggest to her, that if she really wants to be a native, to move here to a reservation, give up all the the things she takes for granted, and start living the way the natives have been forced to.
Since she claims that being native is a spiritual thing, then she should have no problem with being willing to do this. (provided she can find someplace that will take her)
She is right in that skin color does not matter, only man cares what color another mans skin is. However, the things the Creator gives to one people, is meant for those people. Unless He says to do or share something with other people. Otherwise trying to to use the ways of a people not your own, is disrespectful not only to those people, but to the Creator as well. It is like saying to Him "I don't like the things you have given to me and my people, I like theirs better, so I am going to follow their ways, instead of the ways You have set for me".
Yes, perhaps the Creator may say to someone "the ways of xxxxx would be best for you" but in this case, the person would humbly seek out xxxxx and quietly learn, submersing themselves into that culture, until their new life becomes real, and the former seems to be but a dream. These people would not go out offering to teach unless they were sent by the culture. Then they would do so according to the culture. doing this would mean a complete transformation, from the person they were to a completely new person, unrecognizable from the former person. Ask her if she is willing to do this, if not, then she has no business doing anything from anyone else's culture.
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Now she has changed her home page.
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Some of the ppl on her friend's list were also from Red Nation Society, which does not out right claim to be exclusively Native, but has many members/posters who are fake and bake and that do claim to be Native when no evidence of it has been provided by them. There are some seemingly nice ppl there also but the frauds are the ones who are all tryin to out do each other in deceiving other ppl, claiming to be mixed bloods of many nations and posting materials that have simply been cut and pasted from other sites. Noone seems to know the truth about native traditions or heritage. To me it is a joke in general. Most ppl leave there sooner or later. That place has a history of catering to one woman Sonja Christine Lloyd, AKA, Knightcrowwatching,who harrasses and insults anyone who questions whether she tells the truth or not. In the end it looks like she either is part owner or has conned the admins into letting her access the boards. The irony is that she herself is likely one of the biggest frauds and accuses other ppl of doing what she in fact has done herself. She has faked post by writing things to cover her booty and somehow superimposes them under someone else's name. So this is the kind of ppl that we are dealing with. A few times ppl have posted proof of the frauds there and at that very moment, the site suddenly goes down for "technical problems" and returns later without the posts and the person that posted them. I recently saw pics from one of her so called pow wows in Penn. It has a striking resemblance to the 60s when ppl were playing cowboys and ndns. Most ppls regalia is a mix of wal-mart and the craft barn. The kids are paintin up like they are for halloween. There might be one or two native lookin ppl and noone has heard of them either. If they wanna play Native, they could at least look authentic, they don't even try or simply do not have a clue what they are doing. well so thats the stuff on the ppl this woman on yahoo and her friends do.
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I agree with 53Dove. I too jumped on the proverbial "Band Wagon" which by the way we should call it "Wagon Burning" however, after spending just a week on Red Nation Society even mentioning the fact that I am a "Breed" All the fakes and Wannabe Shaman's and NuAge Spirit talkers, came out of the wood work! Even before I got my background on my page, I had 10 requests for "Friends" to help enlighten, My "Spiritual Journey". I'm sorry...I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed and probably a few more tacos short of a six pack, but being NdN, I do know there is only ONE that can help me on my spiritual Journey, but I think maybe that Red Nation needs to be and should be looked into because a lot of these people clearly state it on their home pages that they do ceremony and yadda yadda yadda....oh and by the way I borrowed that phrase from Jerry Seinfeld! :D
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I totally agree....I've joined many sites in the past couple of years...and it generally only takes a few weeks to determine who the people running the show are and what their members are about...which tends to leave me highly dissapointed and shaking my head in wonder.
People should be proud of their own culture and heritage...we are what we are...and we are who Creator makes us....we cannot change these things simply because anothers heritage or culture looks more appealing to us...dang it just annoys me.
Anyways...seemingly...the more you look...the more you find..yahoo 360 is a twinkie paradise...RNS isn't much better...and I pity the fools who jump on the band wagon so to speak. Any real ndn see's through the garbage and walks away.
I actually had emails this week while Ive been away, from people visiting our NAU website...people who claim to be White but adopted into ndn culture etc. (????)..who are offended by some things posted on site...claiming these are offensive to non natives...well geeez....go figure....its an all native site, run by natives...for native people only...which we make very clear...we're not here to keep wannabes and twinkies happy....they have enough fake sites out there on the net....they need to learn about who THEY are...learn some respect...and go play elsewhere.
With respect,
Tsisqua (NAU http://www.freewebs.com/americanunitymovement/)
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Tsisqua.
Nothing offensive about your site. Very enjoyable site, Page of shame caught my attention. Very good work , very good site.
Yahoo 360 & RNS..
Yikes! thats all I can say, I had read an email someone sent me about 360 and RNS people being the same.
This crow lady is saying she is good friends with snow owl/Susan Bates bunch also knew Grandmother Twyla. Seen where things from Snow Owls website were cut and pasted by this woman , she said she doesn't agree with all they say on their website , but goes on to say she is good friends with them and sure is plopping down junk from their website and promoting them in a round about way. Also seen where she told someone she is enrolled Cherokee Nation, Oklahoma. I tend to think that claim is a lie.
Doesn't surprise me sites like that all of a sudden offline their sites for technical problems, many a places like to cover up their trash in order to sucker in more "fools for the taking" so to speak.
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I joined RNS just to keep a eye on fake Lenape. I had several friend requests but ignored them.
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I could not agree more about twinkies and fakes on yahoo 360 and RNS!! The irony is that the woman KCW, if in fact is a woman, though some of her tpical MO s are anything but womanlike,has indeed to thiis day, failed to prove her Nativity altogether. As was stated, she failed the litmus test thus far lol! I don't mean to sound cruel, but the truth is that treating other ppl abominably for doing or being what you are is hypocritical at best and downright LIABLE AT WORST, OR BETTER YET, in this case truth hurts donut!! I agree that RNS is indeed a sinking ship!! and KCW is about to find out that sooner or later ppl won't lay down and play dead. I am apalled that real Native ppl choose to be a part of this sinking regime of liars and abusers, I told my friend the other day, in this case, it makes me feel like saying if there are any real ndns on yahoo or rns then WILL YOU PLZ STAND UP??!! keeping in mind what that means, ppl who are born to this wonderful heritage and who have paid the sacrificial price for being there, namely going thru the testing and teachings of valued elders, and living to tell about it. To my way of thinkng, light and life and time expose all thiefs and liars and to say that these fake and bake crazy ppl are currently under investigation and soon to be under the gun. even plastic ndn surgery lol won't save their faces now!! thanks to this site for being the real thing and speaking truth, ans a word to the wise , ppl who get involved with these fake and bakes, find themselves dangling from the puppet strings of such a degree of disgracing everything sacred and traditionally Native American. Careful ppl hoppin on a sinking ship will likely dump your tails in the cold unfriendly waters of a distant ocean with lead wts on ur feet. No insults or threats intended, just speaking truth from experience. Walking away from such mindless drivel is expedient to say the least. These fakes will suck you in, suck your blood, empty your wallet, insult your intelligence and send you out naked and wounded , which BTW is how they have stayed afloat this far.When good ppl choose to stop being deceived by such places and such ppl then all the doors will swing open and the test mice will waddle outta their cages with doors wide open and light of truth will prevail once again!! if you are smart enough to come here, you are smart enough to heed the warnings! Sgi 53Dove
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There are unfortunately far too many places like this on the net...sometimes all I can do is sit back and shake my head in disgust and wonder how sad these idiots really are...How can they not be proud of their own culture and heritage?....Why do they feel it necessary to steal the culture from our own people and use it to suit themselves?....And yet they have the nerve to call any native sounding them out 'disrespectful' or 'shameful'....Why??...We live in 2008...We are educated people...and we have rights!
And yes, it is sad that native people get caught up in it all....as I have seen for myself with Tribal America and many other sites...behind the scenes these sites are run by non natives, there is almost always money involved...and native people are abused time and time again, once you try to put a stop to the abuse....you are banned! Once you expose them...they change their sites to hide valid information and twist their words to make themselves look dependable. It's high time these people were exposed and stopped. They cause nothing but disrespect to our people and bring shame upon themselves.
I was recently told (by a coward hiding their identity) that I am not 'red or pure of heart' as I exposed this woman Wyte Dove for the twinkie she is...a white woman trying to teach the culture of our people TO our people...and again I will say....WHAT RIGHT DOES THIS WOMAN HAVE???...seems you expose one...and 20 more jump on the band wagon spouting their new age twinkie garbage...funnily enough...these 'people' claim the NAU site is disrespectful and offensive to all natives...yet our ip tracker shows not only are they from the UK, but they also only visited the Page of Shame! We have over 40 pages on site....all pertaining to native people...and the only people that could ever find the NAU site disrespectful are non natives, twinkies, frauds, phonies, pretendindians....who do not like the fact that our site is for native people ONLY. We make no apologies for that, nor will we ever...we are not a racist site...we are simply an all native site...and they need to get over it already....there are many sites on the net for fakes and wannabes...and they are welcome there...our lines are firmly drawn...and will not be moved to accomodate non native people. This is not about blood quantum...skin tone.....its about white ndn fakes wanting to take take take. Im so sick and tired of it...grrrrrrrrr.
With respect,
Tsisqua ( http://www.freewebs.com/americanunitymovement/ )
PS If any Native person however feels anything on our site IS offensive please contact our office email at NativeAmericanUnity_Office@yahoo.com and we will by all means look into this and correct it. We have over 15,000 members to date...and our only complaints so far have come from non natives....go figure those odds.
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Here's another one on 360 (Seems to be a breading ground of twinkie and pretendIndians)....a White woman from Motherwell UK claiming to be native and to have the right to teach not only native ways.....but pretty much any and everything...she seems to be a law unto herself this one although from her comments on her page she also claims to be a Witch!! Hmmm confused to say the least:
http://360.yahoo.com/profile-qnOwegw8fPaRSQEXzL0I7cWO
Here's the little note she left me regarding Wyte Dove and our NAU site:
Tso:ka'we Osto:seri wrote:
I find this site a total embarrassment to my Indian blood and family. No true indian would try to bring about such disgust to our true native ways. Or as you put it SHAME. Well i only see you as SHAME, TO EVERY INDIAN NATION ON OUR ISLAND AND WORLDWIDE. Yet again you try to embarrass a woman, with your sick of heart ways. I strongly suggest you seek counsel with a 'true' elder or clanmother for you carry much dis-ease within. This site is nothing but bad medicine. And therefore only bad can come of it. For as any 'real' indian knows we must respect 'all' our relations in order to survive. I will pray for you that you may see your way back onto the only true path the "Red Road", if you were ever on it. Yes you know me as i do you, and you have never changed, from your days in the dark side of Yahoo 360. Ona, Tso:ka'we Osto:seri, Kanien'kehaka {Mohawk Nation}
And my response:
You are intitled to your opinion as is everyone else...funny how from the Mohawk Nation your ip shows you are in the UK eh?
As for the woman you speak of, who is a white woman claiming the rights to teach our native people....it is she who brings shame...as do you....being another white twinkie claiming to be native just to get the attentions of others. Shame shame shame....what an embarrassment to YOUR people...seems white people find it so difficult to be proud of their own heritage and culture...adopting our native ways as it suits them...as for 'real natives'....you wouldnt know one if it jumped up and bit you on your scrawny white ass.
Incidently...a site that is run soley by natives FOR natives...with all the information we hold that pertains soley to natives and keeps twinkie white wannabes out is not to your taste or your liking?? lol I dont recall inviting you....as I said...we keep twinkies out, this is a site for native people....you fakes, wannabes, phonies have hundreds of sites on the net...use them! We are here however for the 15,726 native american members we DO have...and one little jumped up pretendindian is nothing more than a slight change in the breeze, you wouldn't notice it unless someone pointed it out as it's unimportant...get this straight...we are not here to facilitate non-natives...this has been made clear from day one...any offense caused will not be apologized for...non-natives have no place here. Learn about your OWN people, your OWN culture...this site embarrasses you? lol...it could only do that if you were grasping around at straws trying to 'appear' native. But I thank you for your delightful comment, we got quite a giggle from it....no doubt you'll show your true colors by persisting in leaving comments here...but that is fine by NAU...a little in-house entertainment never hurt anyone.
Also might I add...since your ip shows you from Motherwell in the UK...and our tracker also shows you only visited the Page of Shame and the Guestbook....what would you know of our site??? Nothing...you simply came to stick up for your twinkie buddy...I applaud you! Seems perfectly normal for you white folks to stick together...yet when us natives do it...its shameful...lol...how very European of you. Nothing ever changes does it??
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Thank you for confirming what I already knew about this woman.She has tried to draw me in on her wars,just because I have a 360
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I second this as I was involved in the same mess this woman started on 360:0( Jet and I had nothing to do with this woman did not know her, she was on a friend of ours 360 friend list they got into it and this Maggie or who every this UK person is started posting hate on all our 360's:0( She has no Native blood I can tell you that as no one I know would act in such a disrespectful way:0( Thank you for listening to me blow off steam:0) But I say "HO" to what my Sister Jet said! Many blessings to all.
True of Heart<>Tiger
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I have read for myself her comments towards you Jet and a few others recently on 360...and shook my head in disgust with her bragging about blogging (on a closed down blog I might add) about it all....like a giggly little school girl shouting 'look at me!'.
Unfortuntely most of these twinkies on 360 seem to start many vicious wars with natives and have no morals, respect or backbone...it's as if they feel that by demeaning native people, it elevates their status somehow...but it does not....it merely draws attention to them...which is something they so crave, be it good or bad....I even watched this woman hound a religious man yesterday on her page...trying to make a real show of him...claiming to be part of this order and that order...a witch....a wiccan....a Christian....a Native American....it's all on her comment bar....sad really.
These people develop so many personas....but you will see with this woman...she cannot stick to one...and flits from one to the other depending on the attention it gives her.....even more so...she claims to know me from my 'dark days on 360'....lol...I wish I had some dark days and a terribly interesting past...unfortunately Im just a regular ndn woman who is sick and tired of twinkies and fakes...nothing special or mysterious about that....not to mention the fact that this is my first 360 page and has only been opened recently to promote the NAU site, a site which was developed after many native people were forced to leave Tribal America due to the abuse from non natives...but, as long as this woman can turn anything to her advantage to gain attention...she will do...and more fool those who gather around her as she turns on anyone and everyone given time...particularly if they are native and put her words, action and lies to question.
She feels she has the 'right' to take on a Native American name....claim to be Mohawk....and believes that not one person has the right to question her...how dare they!....although only a few months ago she was from another nation according to some of her friends, she has many names and many pages on 360, RNS and other places...she posts blogs teaching native ways preaching to native people....apparently holds a sweatlodge in Scotland...has a Wiccan/Native broom stick adorned with heavily dyed seagull feathers hanging in her home...of which according to three of her friends on 360 she posted a picture and blogged about it and her Native American Teachings and Spirituality courses she was taking in Scotland (insert rolling of eyes here) also training to be a 'Shaman' ??!! although her blog is only viewable to her friends only....she also spouts on about how the AIM (American Indian Movement) are all fakes and frauds...and trouble makers because apparently some AIM supporters gave her a hard time about her 'twinkieness'....wannabe queen right there.
Give her five minutes with a real native....on a reservation...she'd be crying home to momma pretty darn fast...she has no clue of the suffering or teachings of our people. Although she is mighty brave hounding native people from behind her pc eh...go figure.
She claims Indian Blood.....although this apparently came from her other persona of Crowfeather...her pretend long lost cousin from the US....who in actual fact was one in the same....she can pretend to be native for thirty years....she can read all there is to know about native people...even move to the rez if she has the courage and strength.....but she will always be a white pretend ndn from Motherwell, UK.
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Being a total brain bucket I forgot to add her 360 pages....so here they are...
Tso:ka'we Osto:seri....which is usually Amberwolf
http://360.yahoo.com/profile-qnOwegw8fPaRSQEXzL0I7cWO
Amberwolf II
http://360.yahoo.com/profile-JL5OTDE8eqF5CDW4sRUGTw--?cq=1
Crowfeather
http://360.yahoo.com/profile-l1MGbGc8erSVG25xsuTyqBV4v7CUgBc-?cq=1
And another Crowfeather
http://360.yahoo.com/profile-YHfaGqQ7fqfJx4SKKgvyBtR9G3Lv
Although both Crowfeathers seem to be pretty much inactive these days, plus she has various other pages.
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These emails to the NAU Office are from Rawdog, the man who persisted to back up Wyte Dove in the above postings...can anyone offer any advice on how to deal with this man?....He is becomming nothing short of a pest. Thanks. I have yet to respond.
Incidently this mans 360 page is:
http://360.yahoo.com/profile-xkOQnDI8fr.177nUcqwQEnviUV7wR12a5BnG8X6Xug--?cq=1
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:48:11 -0800 (PST)
From: "Rob Meyer" <meyer6387@sbcglobal.net>
To: NativeAmericanUnity_Office@yahoo.com
I have studied your page at length, which is to say I searched until I found understanding of your message. My racial ancestry is white but I have great respect for the red people who inhabited this continent before Europeans raped it with their authoritarian “godliness???. It might be that I have reincarnational ties to the people you seek to empower but this is not verifiable in a substantial fashion so I will not claim it as a credit to my intention. I will tell you that my first true teacher was an Ojibwa fishing guide in Canada when I was a youth and to this day I think of him as my grandfather. Since he taught me to see the world truly I have been an alien in my own society with a deep hatred of my race and even my own family. In my early thirties I discovered Lone Wolf (Guipago - Kiowa) in a history book and asked him to be my guide. Since that time I have been led to the understanding/delusion that I was Lone Wolf and I have incarnated as a white man in order to understand their ways. Like I said, unverifiable and of no value.
It is good that you promote a true view of history and strive for unity among a people who have been dishonored, murdered, and deprived of their land and way of life but this is the history of humanity and the indigenous peoples of America are no less guilty of abusing their neighbors, they simply did not have the power to do it on such a large scale. Slavery, abduction, and even human sacrifice are on the blood of all people and it is through recognizing the weakness of our humanity that we will find peace and prosperity, not through placing blame and degradation upon others. In particular I am offended by the denigration of “new age twinkies??? and the attack upon those who seek to follow wisdom and truth regardless of their racial heritage. You will accomplish nothing but continued conflict by insult, even if it satisfies a sense of vengeance. Vengeance is a concept fostered by the Christian God who inspired the rape of this continent and it is as unworthy of you as it is as of any true human being.
I also find fault with the continued concept of “warriors’. The battle of the true spiritual warrior is with the self and while it is true that many have perpetrated wrongs in the past it is the heritage of us all and it is only through overcoming these errors in ourselves that a right way of life will be created. There is no enemy here except the unconsciousness of individual human beings and it is only through tolerance and self-control that we will bring awakening. Insult and rejection only foster an equivalent reaction. Seek to work within the established context, as the Lakota establish the first modern Indian nation, by accepting what is established and finding common ground that will please the hearts of all who have a reverence for life. Freedom is very far away and it will only be achieved by sharing a common understanding, not through cherishing a grudge and prejudice against people who have no more to do with the past than you do.
For what it is worth, my very highest regards,
Two Eagles - Wolf Clan - Earthship Central
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 08:09:47 -0800 (PST)
From: "Rob Meyer" <meyer6387@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: strength
To: NativeAmericanUnity_Office@yahoo.com
To quote a well known Hispanic who promoted "a Yaqui way of knowledge", "A man of knowledge is a warrior." It is good to have an adversary, one who tests the unity of your being against the belief systems of another. Ultimately the true test of being IS being and each individual confronts this reality alone, regardless and even in spite of the guides and teachers that shape the way. One way I have heard of is called "the Native American Way." Curiously, the unity of "Native Americans" is a fragmented culture of many tribal beliefs that arose on a particular piece of Earth called "America" by exploring Europeans. Lately we see the evidence of this European culture upon the disparate "belief system" of these orginal inhabitants of this continent in the beginnings of an institutionalized "Native American" religion. There was never any unified belief system for the people of this continent, they simply found their way to truth as did all humans everywhere until a few people gained enough power to impose the concept of a belief system upon those who had no power or true consciousness to retain their innocent and self-directed connection to life. These who claim a special knowledge, whether they are true criminals charging a fee for this supposed higher truth or others posing as the repositories of truth without apparent monetary or coercive intentions, perpetrate an ancient lie such as the one Jesus challenged when he laid bare the obvious manipulations of the scribes and Pharisees in ancient Judaic culture. Now it is a sect of people who claim a true foundation in a culture that never existed and thus has no obvious church to reveal their totalitarian aims, thus giving an apparent validity to their claims that they represent an original truth.
Truth resides in each individual just as it exists in objective reality and each individual comes to an understanding of it through confronting reality, which includes many teachers from the worms in a garden to the images on television these days. Every citizen of Planet Earth must find a true unity of knowledge from all these many sources and it is as much an aspect of this learning to confront pretenders who imitate truth as it is to follow the guidance of one who has truly arrived in mature knowledge. No outward label can reveal this truth. No institution will ever have a claim to this truth. A man might be a Chinese Christian with black skin who has a Phd in "Native American" traditions with Sundance scars but this is no more indicator of truth in his teachings than what a person can learn from a toothless gutter drunk with full blood lineage to Black Elk or Geronimo. Consciousness arrives from within and it is gained through reflection upon what is without, as revealed by the multitudes of teachers/adversaries that every individual confronts. This is not to disparage your work to preserve tradition, it is simply a caution from one who respects your intentions, that you might be losing the essence of what you seek to preserve by trying to give it validity and power within the context of the dominant culture. Consider every human being as your student as well as your teacher.
Best regards,
Two Eagles - Wolf Clan - Earthship Central, aka Rawdog @ 360
Robert Leslie Meyer
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 12:50:57 -0800 (PST)
From: "Rob Meyer" <meyer6387@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: further thoughts
To: NativeAmericanUnity_Office@yahoo.com
I continue to think about the impact your website has had upon me and my letters to you. I hope that I have not been hasty in my thinking and given offense but it is my practice to share my thoughts, often badly, before thinking thoroughly about what is on my mind, thus requiring myself to consider the viewpoint of those I address before my thinking becomes rigid or resistant to modification. I am very appreciative of your efforts with NAU and your site has been profoundly moving to me. I personally have no need to preserve my heritage since what is of value in it (and much that is not) has already become ingrained in my society and indeed has an ever growing global influence. However, I do wish to see the Native American heritage gain influence, since it is deeply meaningful to me and forms one of the most substantial contributors to my personal spirituality and philosophical outlook. This in fact is what I wish to address.
My approach to you began with an unfortunate conflict that arose with the creator(s) of the NAU page in Yahoo! 360. My own spirituality is not at issue. I renounced my racial and cultural heritage at an early age and chose to view all people as my ancestors and guides. I spent most of my life drifting, globally, and have created my own spiritual truth from the influence of many teachers from diverse cultures. This is entirely my own and needs no recognition or support from anyone. What led me to challenge the author of the NAU 360 page was what I saw as disparaging remarks to and about one of my friends there who is perhaps less secure in her spiritual integrity. I regret that I was overly emotional in my conversation and found the person I addressed to be reasonable (though perhaps overly defensive) so I began to study the main NAU website. This led to a greater understanding of your mission and I cannot overemphasize my respect for your aims.
It is important to recognize that what is called Native American is a culture that is coming into being and whose origins began with the impact of European settlers upon this continent. This is not to say that there was not an established culture at this time but it was a culture that had no continental integrity and existed as diverse fragments of an original race that presumably migrated from Asia. Thus it had much in common among tribes but had developed in fragmented isolation in response to the natural world in which each tribe arose. Creating unity and common cause among these tribes is a very worthy goal but it is challenged by the potential that the unique character of each tribe will be lost in creation of an institutional oversight. It is already true that to most people the term Native American is largely identified with the traditions and beliefs of a few North American plains tribes as they existed during the few hundred years from the landing of Columbus to the effective annihilation of the native culture as United States dominance asserted itself.
What is occurring now is a rebirth or renaissance of what was preserved in small pockets by tribal peoples who strove to retain their identity and the work of historians who saw value in preserving a record of the original inhabitants of this continent. The evolution of the United States and growing success of its charter to treat all men as equals has at last given an opportunity for this knowledge to gain popularity and influence but the effort to make this influence effective and lasting is a two edged sword. On the one hand it is popularity and recognition that give your cause power but on the other it is this very fact of getting attention that creates the danger that the message will be diluted or corrupted. In fact, it is the nature of human society and evolution that the arising Native American culture will be a product of both the old and the new, with the greatest influence going to those who serve both a true preservation of tradition and a willingness to compromise with the people who comprise this growing popular movement, many if not most of whom will have no racial or cultural affiliation to the original peoples of this continent.
European culture is a globally dominant fact of our world. Most Native Americans are deeply involved in this culture to the point that a true racial and cultural heritage has ceased to exist. What must be done is to create a new model for all people who are drawn to Native American influence, not to serve an isolationist stance that rejects those who do not follow the way you promote but rather choose to adapt your traditions to their own unique lives. It is a matter for choice in what approach you will take and what I understand as your aim is to create a pan-continental identity. This is an awesomely large undertaking and simply creating unity among the many tribes is perhaps all you can devote yourself to. Yet it is my wish to suggest that you may find greater power in welcoming those who do not adhere to your more strict intentions, as a means to teach them more truly and thus extend your influence through the diluted versions of your culture that are bound to arise. My own aims are a truly global awakening that incorporates the influences of all cultures in a way that each individual can choose to suit their own lifestyle and I take knowledge of what seems true to my being wherever I find it, regardless of the original authenticity of its source.
Best regards,
Rob
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When I read ..
Since that time I have been led to the understanding/delusion that I was Lone Wolf and I have incarnated as a white man in order to understand their ways. Like I said, unverifiable and of no value.
I would of hit the block button after reading that.
However, I do wish to see the Native American heritage gain influence, since it is deeply meaningful to me and forms one of the most substantial contributors to my personal spirituality and philosophical outlook.
Hit the spam button!
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I think I would hit the BS button
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ROTFLMAO@ Fredrica gonna have to remember that one!
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Where is the BS button when we so need one?? lol Dang mine would be wore out!!
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Where is the BS button when we so need one?? lol Dang mine would be wore out!!
(http://img.qj.net/uploads/articles_module/90908/BSbutton_qjgenth.jpg)
Try not to wear it out everyone as they are expensive to get.
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Hittin the BS button!! I think it stuck coz its overloaded by bull slingin crystal rubbin fakes.
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Very nice button...every home should have one...lol
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Tsisqua quoted a Rob Meyer:
I will tell you that my first true teacher was an Ojibwa fishing guide in Canada when I was a youth and to this day I think of him as my grandfather. Since he taught me to see the world truly I have been an alien in my own society with a deep hatred of my race and even my own family. In my early thirties I discovered Lone Wolf (Guipago - Kiowa) in a history book and asked him to be my guide. Since that time I have been led to the understanding/delusion that I was Lone Wolf and I have incarnated as a white man in order to understand their ways.
That's a moving, and pitiful, testament to the power of the Twinkie Creed. Repeat after me:
White People Are All Bad And Not Spirchul. Indian People Are All Good And Spirchul. I Am Spirchul, Therefore I Must Be An Indian. Now Everything Makes Sense. This Is Why I Have Always Been So Unhappy. This Means I Can Look Down On Others Who Do Not Recognise My Inner Nobility, And Accuse Them Of Racism Even Though I Hate My Own Family's Skin Colour.
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Very well said and thank you....even though I spat all over myself trying to say it outloud :)
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Hating any race does not change anything except ones ability to reason out the truth.Certainly does not make you something you can never be. Referring to the fake and bake ethics code LOL!!
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OMG.............hahahaha
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if at first they can't destroy you from the out side.
then they try to split you apart.
and cause tension between brothers and sisters
to destroy you from within
this stops your way of life and your even your lanauge
now they cheapen our traditions by doing fake copys and passing it off as real
my queston is as long as we know what is real and what is not what harm can they do to use.
they only cheapen them selfs
by taking on a way of life that is not there own, they have lost they own ways
and in time there own lanauge as well
so in time the Europeans will have lost more than any native could ever loose
i can just see the future, reservations poping up in europe to contain the (natives) there
o i forgot that that name means consentration camp!
have they forgoten the past so fast.
non conformaty will not be tolarated in any form
and a question to all the clubs ,hobbiest and fakes
would you be willing to die to protect you way of life , let us see that you can declare
independence from your host country, and fight and die to become the natives that you play
as my people have done for 500 years for real
umsonogama
all my relations
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What is wrong with the many white people on 360 playing native? Passing themselves off as 'teachers of our people'? Recently I discovered one such person...a white woman....from the UK...her 360 page is filled with new age garbage etc....today she sent me a mail beginning with 'Osiyo'....the greeting from my own people...so I replied...here are our mails....this womans page is:
http://uk.360.yahoo.com/profile-A2QOKiEmYrI8XRgiTxddZrcZZyU-?cq=1
NativeAmericanUnity wrote:
Forgive my question...I am simply wondering your heritage as you use the language of my people (Keetoowah Band Of Tsalagi) ie: Osiyo...but I see you are from the United Kingdom?
¥«Wyte°l|l°Dove»¥ responded:
Osiyo my friend ..no need to forgive you for what ? it is only a question !..in answer as they say im not of native blood ! but "Native American isn't blood. It is what is in the heart. The love for the land, the respect for it, those who inhabit it, and the respect and acknowledgement of the spirits and elders. That is what it is to be Indian." And in my heart i am ! if i were to be of a certain tribe i suppose then it would be of the langauge of my soul which is cherokee !..however i speak many tounges as they say as i learn so as to comunicate to my friends of different tribes and cultures this is my respect to them !...does this offend you that i am not of native blood ?...i do hope not for we are all one and all related !...have a blessed day my friend ~peace~
NativeAmericanUnity wrote:
Having a respect for the land and for people...does not make a person Native American, nor does adopting the language of Native peoples.
We as Native Americans have to daily fight to prove who we are as a people...in the form of Blood Quantum cards...Band Numbers...Heritage..family line etc...we are the only race of people on this earth who have to PROVE who we are on a daily basis...yet many non-natives find it..'respectful' to use our language and adopt our ways?...when we ourselves struggle for the right to do so?...We were and still are branded 'heathens' and 'savages'...we had our rights taken away by non native people and still today we fight to regain those rights...yet we seem to live with a generation of people who feel it necessary to 'play' native?
Being respectful of the earth...is something ALL people must be...that does not make a person Native American...being respectful of other people in this world...is something we ALL have a duty to be...that too does not make a person Native American. People should be blessed to be who THEY are...they should be proud of their OWN heritage, and not try to adopt the ways of others and play at being something they are not.
I would not adopt the white mans ways...I am Native American! I am proud of my culture and heritage...it would be disrespectful for me to adopt the ways of other people. How is it therefore you find it 'respectful'? I mean no offense...I am simply trying to understand.
Please understand...I am a traditionalist..I work hard to preserve our peoples culture and heritage...and to put a stop to the mis-use and abuse of of language and ways by non-natives.
¥«Wyte°l|l°Dove»¥ responded:
I do not profess to be native it does not say anywer that i am !and i dont think creator would like that no one is allowed to teach other than "what you call a true native"..i see this offends you that i try to teach of granfathers ways and ways of the peoples ..to try bring peace to people and heal mother earth...i dont think ure creator would like you not allowing others in because of skin or blood ..im offended !..
NativeAmericanUnity wrote:
What rights do you have as a white woman to teach the ways of native american people?
¥«Wyte°l|l°Dove»¥ responded:
why use term white woman ????? i dont like the way this is going i hear hatred in ure words and not that of love ..ok so you are offended as am i ..i wasnt aware you felt like this now i am i shall leave ure site as i do not have the blood requirements or as you so loudly say skin colour this is not godly...is there different gates into heaven because of skin or blood i think not ...ieave ure site as im not welcome...
UI shall publish on my posts ure replies see what others think ...
NativeAmericanUnity wrote:
excellent idea...as too will I alert NAFPS and other groups to a non native claiming the right to teach native ways. Your offended? You have no idea of our people. Do you live on a reservation? Do you have to fight for your rights to just 'be'? No...Native people have the right to teach native people...not non natives who use it simply as a means to be 'different' or to fit into the 'new age' ideals of playing ndn.
Why do these people feel it necessary to do this??
With respect Tsisqua (NAU)
LOL. She came to RNS and posted the e-mails from her to you and was asking us what we thought. Needless to say we did not support her and she deleted her account. Oh well....Is the Wyte Dove from England? Another thing she did in the past and so did all the New Agers was, they would write everywhere, "I was born White but I will die Indian" SAY WHAT?!!!LMAO! I still get a good chuckle out of that one.
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Yes Wyte Dove is from the UK...she's ummmm...a little bit odd??! As indeed are many of the oddballs on 360...the more you dig...the stranger it gets.
As for the 'Born White and Die NDN'....she not too long ago had that posted on her Yahoo 360 page...when I questioned her...it dissapeared...funny old world eh....! Unfortunately for these people....they were born white...and they can plonk their booties smack bang in the middle of a rez for forty years....they will still die white.
As strange as she is...and obviously confused...she recently sent me an email giving NAU's name as "good people" to some New Age Web Site....which confuses me...one minute we're racist and cruel to her....next we are good people...yet she still plays the 'badly done to card' by the nasty NDN's at NAU to all who will listen.....hmmmm....strange indeed....but it matters not to us....we are highly used to being called racist by these fakes...seems to be the thing to do once they are called out. SSDD.
The most annoying thing is...If you read my post...I asked her one question in particular...
What rights do you have as a white woman to teach the ways of native american people?
This was never answered....she played the racist card to a T....but could not give me a straight answer...yet brought on her buddies to question us at NAU.....which just annoys me...if someone asks a question...do them the decency of answering already....why can these folks not understand this?!
We at NAU do not 'big ourselves up'....we do all we can for our people...free of charge...we're not all over the net bragging about ourselves and who we are etc....we are a respectful group of people...who yes...call fakes into question...as should any and every native person! You wont find us quoting about ourselves...listing our achievements etc...for one simple reason....what we do is not about us....we are good people, and if others bothered to get to know us instead of judging us....they'd see that.
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Amberwolf aka Crowfeather aka Tso:ka'we Osto:seri aka Maggie (phhheeewwwww!) has yet again taken it upon herself to attack a Native Elder....we have posted it in our NAU forum as I have no wish for any further trouble caused here in NAFPS by fakes.
http://nativeamericanunityforum.theiforum.com/tso-ka-we-osto-seri-aka-amberwolf-aka-crowfeather-t123.html
Incidently, if anyone visiting our forum from NAFPS north west of El Dorado, KS....please contact me...we are having difficulties with your hostserver ip and it keeps getting automatically banned :(
With respect,
Tsissy
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Amberwolf? Waaaait a minute--this isn't Wiccan Woo Woo author Amber "In the Shadow of the Shaman" Wolfe with a E, is it? Didn't she used to claim "adopted Seneca relatives"?
http://www.llewellyn.com/bookstore/author.php?id=10585
http://www.shared-visions.com/explore/culture/shadowof.htm
If not, sorry--reckon there could be a coupla dozen "amber wolves" out there by now. Maybe we need a score card to keep all the white woman playing Indian straight?
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No...unfortunately this one must be 'another' Amberwolf...Maggie has never written a book...thankfully ::)