Author Topic: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo AKA Dhyani Dorje AKA Dhyani Thorner  (Read 69062 times)

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian Inn
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2010, 05:09:57 pm »
Heard back from the Peace Alliance. They also mentioned someone else writing in to protest.

First my message, then their response, and my further message.


Dr. Al Carroll sent a message using the contact form at

I have grave concerns about one of the choices for "inspiring leaders."
"Venerable Dhyani Ywahoo" who claims to be a Cherokee elder is actually Diane
Fishel, a Jewish woman impersonating being Cherokee. She is the leader of
what is by many accounts a dangerous cult in the manner of Jim Jones People's
Temple. It does not permit followers to leave.

I wish to protest her inclusion in the strongest terms and discuss this with
the leadership of the Peace Alliance. Please contact me. Thank you.


Date: Thursday, September 2, 2010, 8:41 PM

Thank you for writing, Dr. Carroll.  We did receive some concern from someone else as well.

So we pulled her from the lineup until we can talk with you and talk with her.  I'm going out of town for 4 days but are you available on Tuesday to talk?  I'm cc'ing Matthew who is the managing director of The Peace Alliance so he's aware as well.


Hello Stephen, Matthew, and Deborah,
Thanks for your prompt attention to my concerns. I think very highly of the Peace Alliance's efforts and do not wish to see them dishonored by an association with someone such as Fisher AKA Ywahoo.
I'm a history professor, and also am part of a project that monitors imposters who pose as Native medicine people and seeks to warn the public of such operators. Fisher/Ywahoo has been on our radar, and that of genuine Cherokees, for quite some time. There is no evidence any of her claims of being a Cherokee elder are true, and none of what she passes off as Cherokee actually is. The so called "Green Mountain Band" is her cult, not an actual Cherokee band or tribe in any way. The Eastern Cherokee tribe in North Carolina was quite upset with her son (also a leading figure in the cult) collecting funds on false pretences for their boys club.
Here is the discussion thread on her. Note in the third post from the bottom is an assessment of her as being a fraud by Dr. Richard Allen, policy analyst and educator in the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma.
Stephen, I would be happy to speak with you on Tuesday.

Offline AlaskaGrl

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Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, RE: Dance of Life
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2010, 02:57:15 am »
It is really good to see this stuff here regarding her. 
I had to contribute, I went back and located this link from The Druid Grove:  where it is stated:

""The Dance of Life was taught and brought out of secrecy in 1984 as part of prophesy by
Dhyanni Ywahoo Etowah band of Cherokee/ Tsalagi""

"""e: Dance of life!
by Donata » 13 Aug 2010, 19:55


I'm not sure which/what Dance of Life you refer to. I first learned it at the Seneca Wolf Clan Teaching Lodge. Later a friend showed me a version she learned from Cherokee friends - nearly the same, but a bit shorter.  This summer I took a workshop presented by Don Waterhawk. His version is also from the Seneca Wolf Clan, but slightly different from my version, and done in several rounds - that is, a full round at each direction, where the versions I learned previously did one round, with the option of doing more.

A description from

"The ancient and sacred dance is 7 points of balancing and empowerment. Conscious breath, conscious movement honoring the four directions, embodying sacred marriage of Mother Earth and Father Sky and our own true heart. This is a moving prayer. The Dance of Life was taught and brought out of secrecy in 1984 as part of prophesy by Dhyanni Ywahoo Etowah band of Cherokee/ Tsalagi."

Is this the Dance you are referring to?



Offline AlaskaGrl

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Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, RE: Her Dance of Life
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2010, 03:31:10 am »
Further down the link on Druid Grove
That the dance was taught to the Wolf Clan by Ywahoo in 1994. 

Below it is cautioned not to refer to the dance as Tsalagi and why...

"""Dance of life!
by WaterHawk » 21 Aug 2010, 06:01

Hello, this is WaterHawk. Glad to see the Dance is refered to as the "Dance of Life". I was taught the Dance at the Wolf Clan, and have had 4 teachers show me the Dance, in 4 different ways. It was taught to the Wolf Clan by Ywahoo. In 1994, I talked to a few Cherokee Elders that I knew, and they were unsure of the validity of the Dance through the tribe. Beccause of this, since 1994, I have shared the Dance simply as the Dance of Life, with no Native connection, and stated that in my workshops, until I find otherwise. My mistake was to not to tell the sponsors of festivals about the change I made. No matter. But that is neither here nor there. It is a very gifted dance. A prayer in motion, much like the Asian Tai Chi, but without the self defense. It is an easy dance to learn, and can be brought into ones world no matter what path they are on. It has not been placed on Video that I know of, and in a way, I trust that it will not. It is sacred if one makes it so. I have heard several people call it the "Tsalagi Dance of Life", but I caution people about that. Unless you know for certain that it is a Tribal dance, its best to just call it the "Dance of Life", and then one can place it into whatever path they walk. I'm sure that when people are taught it, it will be taught different ways...we are after all different people. "What you do with a pure heart, can not be done wrong!"WaterHawk """


Offline educatedindian

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Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian Inn
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2010, 12:22:22 pm »
One site has done a series of articles on Fisher/Ywahoo. The site was down for a time, no idea if they were shut down. So I'll repost the most relevant articles in their entirety. There are also seemingly articles missing judging by the numbering.

The ones posted below, first one includes Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma President Chad Smith's statement: She's a fraud.

Second one is a statement her "band" is not recognized.

Dhyani Ywahoo Article # 1 - Cherokee Chief or Cherokee FRAUD???
Submitted by Charlene D Jones on Mon, 2009-04-20 21:43.
Hello readers:

This is Harold and we now begin a new investigation and the person we will be investigating is Dhyani Ywahoo.

Dhyani Ywahoo lives in Vermont where she runs a series of businesses including a Drikung Kagyu Nunnery.

Ms Ywahoo's personal claim to fame is that she claims to be a Cherokee, a Cherokee Chief( Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee) and the 27th lineage holder of something called the Ywahoo Lineage. You can check out her claims at her websites of and Dhyani Ywahoo teachs in the United States, Canada and Europe.

There are some disturbing allegations on the web about her claims of being a Cherokee, a Cherokee Chief and that the Ywahoo Cherokee Lineage is fake (Google Dhyani Ywahoo FAKE and read for yourselves).

I contacted Dhyani Ywahoo on numerous occasions by email and telephone over a long period and her answers to me were SILENCE. Not the response one would expect from an "Enlightened Being". I was giving her all these chances to answer these disturbing questions about her Cherokee background and the Ywahoo Lineage.

I began a series of emails to various federally recognized Cherokee bands. I whated to know if they had heard about Dhyani Ywahoo and the Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee Nation.

Please read below the email reply I received about Chief Dhyani Ywahoo from Principal Chief Chad Smith of the "Western Cherokee Nation" located in Oklahoma. This Cherokee Band is formally recognized by the United States Government.

Flag this message Re: Chief Dhyani Ywahoo

Friday, September 5, 2008 10:59 PM

From: "Chad Smith" Add sender to Contacts To:

She is not recognized by the cherokee nation and the tribe referenced is made up.

----- Original Message -----
To: Chad Smith
Sent: Fri Sep 05 21:52:52 2008
Subject: Chief Dhyani Ywahoo

I am interested in taking teachings from Chief Dhyani Ywahoo of the Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee in Bristol, Vermont.

I was told that you would validate her status.

Thank you


Well, well Dhyani Ywahoo is not recognized by the Cherokee nation. The Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee of which she claims to be the Chief is made up. So says the Principal Chief of the federally recognized Western Band of the Cherokee Nation.

Well readers this is were this investigation starts. In our future articles we will she what other native indian bands and the Government of Vermont say about Dhyani Ywahoo and her Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee.



Dhyani Ywahoo Article # 2 - Cherokee Chief or Cherokee FRAUD???
Submitted by Charlene D Jones on Mon, 2009-04-20 22:44.
Hello Readers:

This is Harold and in this article we will see the reponse from the State Government of Vermont in regards to Chief Dhyani Ywahoo and her "Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee". Dhyani Ywahoo claims on her websites that they are located in Vermont.

Ms. Jane Lendway is the Chief Historian of the State of Vermont and responded offically for the State of Vermont in regards to the offical status of the "Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee'

Chief Dhyani Ywahoo and the Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee in Bristol Vermont

Tuesday, September 9, 2008 12:58 PM
From: "Lendway, Jane"

Yes, to the best of my knowledge, the Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee are not recognized by the State of Vermont.

In 2006 the Vermont Legislature passed Senate bill S.117 An Act Relating to State Recognition of the Abenaki People. I have attached a link for you to read the bill. This is the only Vermont legislation regarding Native American recognition.

Dear readers you now have the offical reponse. Neither the State of Vermont, nor the federally recognized Cherokee Nations, nor the Bureau of Indian Affairs (Dept. of the Interior) recognized Dhyani Ywahoo's Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee. You must be first recognized by a state government before the United States Government will look at your request for federal recognition.

What was Dhyani Ywahoo's offical response to this information? SILENCE!

More to come in my next article.


Offline educatedindian

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Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian Inn
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2010, 12:27:41 pm »
Her false claims about the Buddhist group she claims to be associated with, possible fraud regarding a charity.

Dhyani Ywahoo Article # 8 - Cherokee Chief or Cherokee Fraud???
Submitted by Charlene D Jones on Sat, 2009-05-09 01:43.
Hello Readers:

This is Harold and in this article we will be looking at Dhyani Ywahoo and the Drikung Kagyu "Vajra Dikini Nunnery" that she runs in Vermont. The article will examine possible Charities Frauds that involve Dhyani Ywahoo's Nunnery and Shambhala's Gampo Abbey in Nova Scotia.

Prior to its removal from the Vajra Dakini Nunnery website ( had posted the following instructions for would-be donors.

"FOR CANADIAN CITIZENS: Tax deductible donations of cash for Vajra Dakini are kindly received by Gampo Abbey. All checks should be made to Gampo Abbey with a notation in the memo line For Vajra Dakini Nunnery and sent to Gampo Abbey, Attn: Finance Dept., Pleasant Bay, Cape Breton, Nova Scotia BOE 2P0, Canada. These gifts are tax deductible. Gifts of stock for Vajra Dakini are kindly received by Dharma Centre of Canada.

On August 28, 2008 I sent an email to Gampo Abbey;

Attn. Fiance Dept.
I am planning on taking a course with the Veneraable Dhynai Ywahoo and Khenmo Drolma at their Nunnery in Vermont.

I just need to make sure I understand the right way to get a tax deduction for my donataion. I send my check to Gampo Abbey with your name on my check and with a notation in the memo line listing Vajra Dakini Nunnery and you will send me a taxable deductible donation receipt in your name (Gampo Abbey). I hope I got this all right if not please help me.


On Wednesday Aug 20, 2008 I received the following email reply from Gampo Abbey;

Dear Metta
Yes, the way you described in your email is the way to give donation to the nunnery through us. We will send you a tax receipt around Feb. in 2009.

Gampo Abbey Office
(902) 224-2752

On August 19,2008 I contacted Mr David Brown who is the personal assistant to Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche, the head of Shambhala. The following is my email to him;

"The Vajra Dakini Nunnery is located in Lincoln, Vermont. It is operated by Chief Dhyani Ywahoo and Khenmo Drolma.

On their website they list Gampo Abbey as the location to send Canadian donations for their center. By doing it this way you will receive from Gampo Abbey a Canadian tax deductible receipt.

Could you tell me under what sections of the tax code for charities this qualifies? How can a recognized American Charity (Vajra Dakini) using Gampo Abbey get me a tax deductible receipt from Revenue Canada?

I just need to know that it would withstand a tax audit by the government.

Thank you."

On August 20, 2008 Mr. David Brown emailed me this reply.

From David Brown

Subject Re: Web Inquiry: Sending donations to Vajra Dakini Nunnery in Lincoln, Vermont

Dear Harold,
Thank you for spotting this. Vajra Dakini Nunnery has no legal association with Shambhala or the Gampo Abbey that I am aware of, so I am bewildered to hear this. I have copied Shambhala's Comtroller, Terry Rudderham here, to see if she can shed any light on this.

I have quoted the relevant section from their web site below:

Terry,please copy both Harold and I with any thought you have on this.

On Monday August 25, 2008 I recieved the following email from Terry Rudderham. She is the Comptroller for Shambhala.

From Terry Rudderham

Subject Re Legal association between Dhyani Ywahoo (Vajra Dakini Nunnery and Shambhala)

Dear Harold
I emailed you several days ago to let you know that I was following up on this matter...

I have been in touch with Gampo Abbey and I just heard back from the Director Les Ste. Marie. I have copied his message below.

From Les Ste. Marie - I understand completely that it can jeopardize the charitable status of the Vajradhahtu Buddhist Church (Shambhala/Gampo Abbey) and will insure that it does not happen again.

I will inform Trime that we are to refuse any further donations on behalf of Vajra Dakini.

Thanks again Harold for being so diligent about this. I appreciate it.

Warm regards

On Sept. 20, 2008 I contacted Shambhala to advise them that Vajra Dakini Nunnery was still listing Gampo Abbey for charitable donations.. This was Terry Rudderham's reply to me.

Dear Harold,
Thank you for letting us know that Vajra Dakini is still listing Gampo Abbey for donations on their website. I have requested that such references be removed as soon as possible.

warm regards,

Terry Rudderham
Shambhala Office of Finance & Development
1084 Tower Road
Halifax, NS, B3H 2Y5
Phone: 902.425.4275 ext 16
Fax: 902.423.2750

This, my dear readers, shows that the highest levels of Shambhala were NOT aware of what was going on between Dhyani Ywahoo and certain person(s) at Gampo Abbey. I have learned from the "Compliance Division" of Revenue Canada Charities that you can not receive a tax receipt from a Canadian charity for money intended for an American charity.

That is why Director Les Ste. Marie stated "I understand completely that it can jeopardize the charitable status of the Vajradahtu Buddhist Church and will insure that it does not happen again. I will inform Trime that we are to refuse any further donations on behalf of Vajra Dakini."

If what Dhyani Ywahoo and her Nunnery was doing was not improper why have they removed all references to Gampo Abbey from their website (see

I received this email on August 26, 2008 from Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche's personal assistant.
It was in reply to my email thanking them for the open and honest manner in which they dealt with me.

From: David Brown

Subject: Re A letter of thanks from Harold

Thank you for these kind sentiments. I am happy to have been of any small assistance in this, and certainly understood your motivation to be like ours: the proper presentation of the teachings.

Kind regards,

Finally readers what was Dhyani Ywahoo's, aka Pema Sangzin Khandro the founder of the Drikung Kagyu Vajra Dakini Nunnery (the 27th Lineage Holder of the Ywahoo Lineage and Chief of the Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee), offical response to me about this serious matter?

There was none, she refused to reply to all my telephone and email requests.

You can draw your own conclusions about her SILENCE.

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian Inn
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2010, 01:20:26 pm »

Dhyani Ywahoo Article # 6- Cherokee Chief or Cherokee FRAUD???
Submitted by Charlene D Jones on Tue, 2009-04-21 23:42.

Hello Readers:

This is Harold with yet another email response regarding Dhyani Ywahoo. This is in regards to her claims about being a Cherokee, the 27th lineage holder of the Ywahoo Lineage and the Chief of the Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee.

I contacted the federally recognized Eastern Band of the Cherokee in South Carolina. This is their offical reply about Dhyani Ywahoo. Remember that Dhyani claims that she is a Chief of a band of Eastern Cherokee.

RE: dhynai ywahoo

Tuesday, September 16, 2008 4:29 PM

From: "Hugh Lambert"


The Eastern Band of Cherokee is one of the only three recognized tribes
of Cherokee. We are members who still live on our ancestral land- where
we have lived for more than 12,000 years. A few things about groups and
people who claim to be "Cherokee".

There is money in things related to Indian culture.

People of Indian decent often suffer emotionally from the loss of a
culture they can no longer legitimately claim as their own.

There is no such thing as the "Ywahoo lineage".There was, however, a
famous wrester in the 1960s who also played football for the Miami
Dolphins who called himself "Chief Wahoo" McDaniel who claimed to be
Cherokee. The word "wahoo" is now associated with Cherokees because of
this, but few remember why. Most successful deceptions use enough truth
to be successful.

There is often money to be made in things related to Indian culture

Traditionally, there never were Cherokee people in Vermont (or anywhere
north of Ohio).

Nobody in any Cherokee community here or in Oklahoma I could find has
ever heard of this person.

There is money in things related to Indian culture (I repeat myself).

We cannot give you any history on this person because she is not known
to us (by that name anyway).

You say " She has been teaching in the greater Toronto, Ontario Canada
area for the last 18 months and has acquired a following here".... has
she started a cult?

Sadly, this "so called" Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee is
one of hundreds of false so called tribes that we and the other two
"real" Cherokee tribes fight against constantly.
The western tribes
pursue these people more vigorously than we do- they actually employ
teams of lawyers to sue these folks in state and federal courts.

It's possible this person is of some Indian ancestry. Everything else is
likely not true.


Hugh Lambert
Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians

A quick review of some of the quotes of this email;

1) There is no such thing as the Ywahoo Lineage.

2) Nobody in any Cherokee comunnity here or in Oklahoma I could find has ever heard of this person.

3) Has she started a cult?

4) Sadly, this "so called" Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee is one of hundreds of false so
called tribes...

5) There is money in things related to indian culture ( repeated 3 times )

Well readers we now have the Eastern and Western Bands of the Cherokee Nation,the Abenaki Band of Vermont and the government of the State of Vermont answers about Dhyani Ywahoo.

No one will offically recognize Dhyani Ywahoo as a Cherokee. She does not hold a Jay Treaty Card from the United States Government showing that they recognize her as a native indian. They stated that she, the Ywahoo Lineage and the Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee are FAKE.

If Dhyani is a real Cherokee you would think that her own Cherokee people would admit that she is one of them?

What was Dhyani Ywahoo's reply to me about this email? SILENCE!!

More to follow


Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian Inn
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2010, 07:09:06 pm »
I have here an ad for Fisher/"Ywahoo"s "26th Annual Native Elders Gathering". It was held July 30 - August 1, 2010.

It's a full page, color ad, in a free nuage newspaper that is on the newsstands all over New England. The ad does not name what "elders" will be in attendance. The photograph is of what appears to be a very large arbor, in a beautiful green clearing in the wooded mountains of Vermont. The grounds are a well-maintained lawn.

"Teachings and Celebration with Indigenous Elders.
Saturday Night Healing Ceremony. All Are Invited.
Sunray Peace Village, Lincoln VT

"'We are Relatives in the Dance of One
Restoring Access to Spiritual Sovereignty' - Venerable Dhyani Ywahoo

"Wisdom Seminars with Native Elders - August 2 & 3
Peacekeeper Training with Ven. Dhyani Ywahoo and
Sunray Teachers - August 4

I have spoken with people who have attended this gathering in the past. They say Fisher dodges questions of authenticity by claiming this is secret stuff that most people, NDN or non, don't know about. Apparently you have to be really spiritually advanced to find the ads in front of your face at the coffee shop, or the nuage store, or the supermarket, or the laundromat. I didn't go in to look, but I think you can find this sooper seekrit newspaper in the bars and liquor stores, too. Spiritual!

At the gathering, the thoroughly non-NDN attendees were told that "the elders" want the ceremonies shared with people all over the world, because that's how they will "heal the earth". She attracts otherwise intelligent, monied, professional people who sincerely want to "heal the earth", but somehow haven't figured out that supporting a pay to pray fraud is not going to help in that department.

When one tries to educate her followers, they usually choose to believe Fisher's claims that her critics simply aren't privy to the sooper seekrit teachings she has. Fisher feeds the followers' desire to feel special, to feel like they're helping the precarious state of the world, and how convenient that it can be accomplished simply by forking over some money and having a nice vacation in the woods.

Well, after taking the time to type all that up and describe it, the ad is here:  Along with the names of some of the participants.


"Enrollment of $155 is for the three days of Elders, July 30-August 1. "

The three hour "wisdom seminars" are $40 each.

Camping fees are also extra. They're a bit cheaper if you formally join the group.

Clicking around that site... yargh. "Beauty Way Seminars"... over the phone. Including exploiting people's concerns over the 2012 scam:[G]Containers/_default/No+Container
« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 01:02:26 am by Kathryn »

Offline Lodro

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Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian Inn
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2010, 06:06:16 pm »
I shall write to Chetsang Rinpoche. No one on the high seat can be involved in deception, however slight. I want to know what the status is of Vajra Dakini vis a vis Drikung Kagyu.

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian Inn
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2010, 09:13:12 pm »
I just got off the phone with Steve Dian of the Peace Alliance. The conversation went really well. He asked for who he could speak to regarding Fisher/Ywahoo, and I suggested Richard Allen and Chad Smith, who've both previously condemned her as a fake. He also asked for who would be a good Native speaker for peace. Apparently Oren Lyons was originally scheduled but there was a conflict with previously scheduled events he'd already committed to. I suggested Joanne Shenandoah or Jake Swamp or any speaker from AIM or the NCAI.

Steve told me Fisher/Ywahoo has been pulled off the schedule and is no longer listed as a speaker until this is resolved. One person in the organization, a white woman, originally suggested her and gave several references from others as a speaker for peace. What I told Steve next was that she may sincerely be interested in promoting peace. I have no idea if she is sincere about the issue, but it really doesn't matter. Rev Moon and his Moonies have also sponsored conferences about peace, but the association with a cult taints these conferences so strongly the conferences have no credibility.

Steve thanked me for bringing this to their attention and promised to let me know their decision.

Offline Twinkie_Slayer

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Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian Inn
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2010, 09:23:38 pm »
 I was surprised to see that Diane Fisher is still active and in the public eye. 10-11 years ago when I first got a computer I had read about her and how she was soundly condemned as a fraud. These people are hard to stop, it seems. Glad to hear that the conference organizers are taking a hard second look at her.

Offline beaverstream

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Dhyani Ywahoo speads to Germany?
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2011, 10:28:25 am »
In April 2000 I moved to Germany with my husband who is Portuguese. Soon after my daughter was born-- and any mom knows the changes in life that come with it. I was really overwhelmed with the task of raising her in a third culture (a culture not belonging to either of her parents) her sensitivity to other people was overwhelming for us both. The system of putting 3 year olds in kindergarten for three years before starting school was horrible for us; both because she couldn't speak the language and no environment seemed gentle enough.
A friend of mine suggested a play group run by a therapist she knew and I was so happy to find some really quiet moms who knew how to let their children be children and play.

I sought out personal guidance from this counselor after that because she was very grandmotherly, she also had traveled numerous times to the U.S. and could understand me when I needed help with navigating through the culture of Bavaria on behalf of my own children.

In 2007 I was invited by my friend to come to The Sternenkinder Treff (Starchild Meeting).
This was shortly after it was made known in conversation that I had Native American heritage in my family.
Apparently some of the kids from the playgroup also attended. At that time I also had a son who turned out to be even more sensitive than his sister and the idea of reconnecting with some of those moms was appealing. My kids were happy. I had to laugh a lot inside at Germans playing Indian ceremonies. They are all supposedly based on ancient Cherokee wisdom but most of the meeting had to do with painting t-shirts and other creative activities as well as Bavarian traditional dancing. No ceremonies are held under the eyes of outsiders. No one participates in a ceremony without first having been a witness to that ceremony.

The Sternenkinder Treff is run by an American woman and a Bavarian woman who are trained by Dhyani Ywahoo.

Lately my mistrust in the situation has grown.
I am continually pressured whenever I come to this woman for counseling to give up contact with my family in order to "break a cycle of aggression" in parenting practices.
During recent discussions over how to help my daughter with her math, the idea that her father could help is completely rejected and the pressure is on to use a woman in the group as a tutor, while my husband is demonized. It grew more and more difficult to have discussions without being chastised, which in a therapeutic situation is simply  unprofessional.
The scariest thing is this.
Because I couldn't keep a regular day/time for the appointments surrounding this recent discussion that I sought guidance for, because I work free-lance I noticed that everyone who goes to the Sternenkinder Treff is also seeing this Bavarian Psychotherapist!

My friend and another young mother I have grown close to have been in counseling with her for 10 years! Neither of them feels safe outside of their contact with her, group members or the group! The one young mother also brings her children to their kindergarten.
Both have alienated their own parents and family completely at the prompting of this therapist.

This group also rents a store and uses the back rooms as an after school program and kindergarten/playgroup for the people who attend the Sternenkindertreff. I am always encouraged to bring my son there instead of the kindergarten he is in because it is "unhealthy" for him there.

My concern is that through Diane Fisher's organization and influence- these two individuals are involved in cult recruiting and cult building. Although the original intentions may have been healthy it seems somewhere it has taken a turn.
I am seriously worried about mental abuse right now. The lie begun by Diane Fisher and her group continues to be harmful in subtle but destructive ways. If there is something seriously rotten at the core of the therapy or therapy-related group work (aka the Sternenkinder Treff), then there is something rotten in all the relationships between leader/follower, therapist/patient, ceremony-giver/ceremony-taker.

This makes me feel unsafe an abused - next to this conviction of having also been supported and helped to grow. But the growth seems to come with a catch. It will never be entirely MY decision how and when and with whom and in which direction I grow. It has to be in the periphery and company and within the value-system set by the leader(s).
I am convinced of the truth of much of the wisdom I gained from being among very calm sensitive and peaceful people and will hope to put them into practice for the rest of my life. They are mirrored in the wisdom that I share with completely different people with completely different spiritual orientations and life stories.

I really truly feel an abuse of power is going on here and would appreciate more research into this Fake Cherokee group and their practices outside of the U.S. it seems in Poland there are two psychotherapists posing as elders who also have a group going. This blurred line between psychotherapist and ceremony seller is frightening because of the abuse of power issue and the incredible subtle manner that mind control can take hold.

I've read recently in my hunt for clarity in this matter that new agers are "looking for their light families" in the run up to 2012.
 I think this kind of subtle cult activity will continue to grow as fear drives more people to dependency.
I am currently spreading the word about Diane Fisher to my two friends and I hope to give them all known information for them to make their own decisions. I am not certain if I am interested in making a challenge to this Leader of the group at this time. I have posed many questions to her previous to this regarding the legitimacy of the Native American claim of Diane Fisher and get the same stories.

Any feedback or similar findings about this group would be very enlightening.

Offline nemesis

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Re: Dhyani Ywahoo speads to Germany?
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2011, 10:54:44 am »
I am pushed for time but having read your post it rang many different alarm bells for me and I am very concerned about the situation you describe.

Alienating victims from their families is a high priority for criminals who exploit the vulnerable, not just cults but fortune tellers and psychics who deplete people's bank accounts.  It is sooo much easier to abuse people once they are isolated, mistrustful and dependent on the fortune teller / psychic / cult.

I have worked in mental health for many years (I do not want to give exact details to protect my identity) and I can assure you that no proper counsellor or therapist would behave in the way that these people are behaving.

Sadly it is definitely the case that many newage frauds and criminals, individual entrepreneurs, small groups and also large organised networks use the disguise of counselling and therapy to recruit, control and ultimately abuse victims.  Usually these so called counsellors and therapists have flaky, non-recognised qualifications, however recent trends have been for networks to recruit and corrupt properly qualified counsellors and therapists.

Also in the newage arena things have been complicated by the history of the various Rajneesh (later Osho) based "therapy" trainings that while very unorthodox (and usually involving sex) have been accepted as proper qualifications by newage communities since the 1980s.

The situation you describe where everyone in the group has been seeing the same therapist is a situation that is unorthodox, unprofessional and deeply concerning.  I am familiar with a similar situation re a tantric cult in Finland where many women and girls were sexually abused by a "psychiatrist" (in fact he was not properly qualified to work in Finland) and many of the members of the cult were seeing this same abusive psychiatrist.  

If you have any further identifying details re these "therapists" I would be interested to hear about them.  

I am not at all sure what is going on in the situation you describe but I think you are brave to have been able to resist the pressure to conform and to challenge the status quo.

I think you are absolutely correct to be concerned and I am very pleased that you are posting here.  I hope that other people, more knowledgeable than me can be of further help to you.  

I just had a quick google and your german group appears to be associated with this group

a weird blend on Buddhism and Cherokee paths  ???

also lots of stuff about her being a fraud here

« Last Edit: April 21, 2011, 11:08:55 am by nemesis »

Offline beaverstream

  • Posts: 7
Re: Dhyani Ywahoo speads to Germany?
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2011, 11:54:44 pm »
The articles from infinite I already found here posted by educatedindian, I believe, on previous discussions about Fisher. It was what completely washed away any of my doubts about her being a fraud.

I have more relevant information to share that I have been gathering through members over time and from other professionals in the community.
The German website is new! OMG I had no idea the whole thing has grown into so many other groups. The Sunday school in Munich is potentially not associated with Fr. Biebel and the Starchild meeting. Starchild facilitators are Dr. Deita Biebel and Amtul (Katherine Amtul Hannan). She is a therapist/homeopath working outside of Albuquerque, NM. I've confirmed with other group members that she (Amtul) does charge to lead any ceremonies but it is only mentioned to the ceremony participant not communicated in some sort of price list.

I spoke in great depth with my long time friend who introduced me to the group.  I learned that her "therapy" ended two to three years ago when Dr. Biebel had to retire. Under her encouragement my friend was coached into tutoring students in her town and to invite or bring them and their families to Sternenkindertreff. For coaching from Fr. Biebel on how to tutor these kids she paid 100 Euros for a one hour session every week, cash! Dr. Biebel as a retiree can only take patients who pay cash or are privately insured. All doctors in Germany can charge for "theraputic counseling". She was actually a gynecologist (obgyn) but gave up the practice and went into full-time counseling sometime after the Sternenkindertreff began here 19 years ago. She participated in some sort of 3 year program of alternative psychotherapy which I still need to find out more about. Some alarming terms that I have not properly translated yet have come up and basically describe a technique used by the Nazis (I am not stating that this woman is a Nazi) to manipulate people into committing their thinking to the group thinking. (Sorry a more eloquent translation isn't possible at the moment)

What is alarming is the access to children here through the programs. There is a general frustration about the schools and the kindergartens here and the incredible pressure the kids live under (in Bavaria by the 4th grade the kids are tested) and based on this test and their grades it is decided if they are allowed to go to grammar school (gymnasuim-eventually access to a university) technical school (realschule-access to a handworker or technician career) or general school (hauptschule-you work as a cashier your life long).
The pressure on the kids (4th graders) is enormous and the money to be made in opening alternative schools is BIG. This is the flaw in a society that is ripe for a cult to step into and collect the "refugees" from a morally bankrupt school system.

From my friend the tutor I also learned that this Fr. Biebel is considering a "break" from the group in Vermont.
They apparently wanted to film the Starchild meeting here and she has not complied.

It makes me wonder where does the line get drawn between-individuals who are pretty excited to have received training as "Peacekeepers" through Sunray, are given a Cherokee name, and want to use what they learned now to "help others"-----and fully fledged cult recruiters? Is it the method? Is it only when you stop letting people leave the group?

I have no problem labeling this borrowing of ceremony as unethical.

Here is a translation of the description of the founder of the Sunday school
Waya Usdi

(Tsalagi für: Kleiner Wolf, bürgerlich: Kilian Keller) Cherokee for Little Wolf, citizen name Kilian Keller


Vater von zwei Kindern; Studiert seit 1991 die Praxis der Indianer Nordamerikas, insbesondere der Tsalagi (Cherokee)

Father of two children;since 1991 has studied the medicine of the Indians of North America,specializing in Cherokee

und hatte seit Anfang der 1990er Jahre den Traum von einer andersartigen Schule des Erwachsenwerdens.
 and since the 1990's had the dream of establishing an alternative school for growing up.
Basketholder in dem Gaduji für Bauwesen, Angehöriger der Gadujis  (Medizingesellschaften) für Heilwesen, Lehren und Trommeln,

beruflich Immobilienmanager eines internationalen Unternehmens

He is a basketholder of the Building Gaduji and a member of the Healing, Teaching and Drumming Gadujis. He is a real estate manager for an international company.


Who are the Gaduji?

Offline MrPiz

  • Posts: 18
Re: Dhyani Ywahoo speads to Germany?
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2011, 09:12:40 am »
I have not properly translated yet

I could do my very best helping you with translations (I live in Germany).

Here is the link to the english version of the HP

I have no clue what Gaduji means or is comming from. It´s statet as a medicnesociety...... ´whatever that means...

Walk your talk

Offline beaverstream

  • Posts: 7
Re: Dhyani Ywahoo speads to Germany?
« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2011, 10:39:49 am »
Thanks for your offer MrPiz. I am really struggling with the term "gleichschaltung" and its explanation.

the political party is considered the generator, and every member of a political body, a professional group or society is considered a motor wired to it

It is a REALLY strong term.

It is apparently a technique taught by some alternative therapeutic trainings that popped up around here as a means of group therapy. I do not know much about this and cannot confirm it. It was relayed to me by another OBGYN who had definite misgivings about the theraputic practices in this group and believes this is part of it. She holds Dr. B responsible for the death of her friend, some many years back, who was involved in the group.
I'm digging pretty deep here because of the broad offerings to children through the group.
It's great to teach kids about nature local habitats, and Native ways but where does it stop at information (mostly false information funneling from the Sunray group) and become indoctrination.