NAFPS Forum
General => Research Needed => Topic started by: educatedindian on December 17, 2007, 07:16:18 pm
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Update: I received information from what I believed to be initially several extremely credible sources telling me about this Christian minister posing as a Lakota holy man online in Lakota language courses on a yahoo group. As of now that information is in dispute, but will continue to be updated if we know anything more.
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Charles Anthony Benson, Jr. of Lilburn, GA
Goes by Rev. Charles A. Benson for the Door of Hope Christian Ministeries
His boss is Pastor Warner.
Chuck A. Benson, Jr. is owner of a Yahoo Group Site called lakoliyapi@yahoogroups.com
and he goes by Lakoliya and and sometimes by the name chucktwofingers.
He was born in Arlington, VA in 1957 to an Irish father and a cuban/panamanian/french mother. His father moved to Aberdeen, SD in 1968 and Charles Benson, Jr. attended school in Brentford, SD, and Melette, SD, in the Melette-Northwestern School District from 1968-1973. He attended Aberdeen Central High, in Aberdeen, SD. He attended school there with Diane (Arthur) Zahn , Aberdeen, SD. She recalls that Charles A. Benson, Jr. always wanted to be an Indian.
Charles (Chuck) Benson, Jr., learned Lakota and is fluent because of total immersion on the Pine Ridge Reservation. He was adopted by the Jonson Bear Robe family in Oglala, SD and claims to be adopted by a well respected man by the name of Leonard Little Finger. He is claiming to be a Wicasa Wakan (Holy Man) because of getting instruction through a man by the name of Richard Bear Nose from the Pine Ridge Reservation.
He has a yahoo group site called Lakoliyapi@yahoogroups.com and the site claims that the Lakota courses are taught by fluent Lakota speakers. He is the only teacher of record and he is not a Lakota. He speaks Lakota fluently. He has fooled many for years.
He and his sons have a drum group called Sa Ste takoja (ShaStay Tah KO jah)[little Finger Grandchildren] and they participate in powwows throughout the SW. His children are 1/2 Papago (Tohono O'odham) and do not speak any Indian language. Chuck Benson, Jr. recently (Aug. 2006) was assigned to pastor in the Atlanta, GA area by the Door of Hope Christian Ministeries re: Pastor Warner in Tucson, AZ
People in his classes have criticized actual Lakota when they tell the truth about Chuck Benson Jr., and ostracize them.
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Uncle Chuck is good people. Let him be.
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Prove it to us
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Prove it to us
All I know him by is personal contact. He's never did anything bad as far as I know. He's been around for awhile, and a lotta people know him around here.
I've never heard him make any crazy claims or claiming to be a Holy Man...and a lotta Sioux people I know from SD and ND seem to know and like him (I'm sure there are some who DON't like him too...but then some people don't like me either...hard to believe as that may be!!!). It seems odd that he'd come up as some sort of fraud....a fraud "what?" No one I know knows him as other than a pastor we call Uncle Chuck. I know he speaks Aboine (Sioux) but we'll overlook that shortcoming.
He's a real pastor, and a pretty good singer, and a somewhat funnee Emcee.
Why don't you just call him up and talk to him. I'm sure he knows more about himself than me.
I know his boys would beat ya down if you diss their dad.
That's all I know.
Edited Out Number
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The complaints against him come from Lakota, all in tribal govt and recommended to me by traditionalists. All the complaints involve an online language class. The class itself is not open to the public, and is hidden. You won't find it listed in yahoogroups either, which is all very strange.
Until the questions are resolved, this stays under Research Needed.
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author=educatedindian link=topic=1431.msg8752#msg8752 date=1199803170
Until the questions are resolved, this stays under Research Needed.
Call him and find out what he has to say then. That should be your speciality, the FOLLOW UP.
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The class itself is not open to the public, and is hidden. You won't find it listed in yahoogroups either, which is all very strange.
So WTF are ya squawkin' about bud? Delete this case totally.
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Are you kidding? What legit reason could there be to hide a language course? And do you really expect that someone whose been accused of these things would just out and out admit to it? Talk about naive.
It's still unresolved, and this is where it stays. And that includes your vouching for him BP. Other people who've had questions raised about them and been resolved in their favor are also under Research Needed.
And if we deleted it, you bet there'd be people accusing us of censoring or trying to hide our mistakes. But we've never claimed to be perfect and say so upfront in our Who We Are link.
But here's a question you could help answer, BP. If these charges from several sources are wrong, who has something against Benson and why?
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Chuck does not offer a Lakota course. That's insane. He, and others, who by the way are LAKOTA, set up a place for friends and family to meet and discuss language, culture, tell stories, and anything else they'd care to share. He has never claimed that he was Wicasa Wakan, but is in fact a Christian minister. I wasn't aware that this was a crime. He is not the only fluent speaker in the group. There are several full-blood LAKOTA members, so you're wrong again. Richard Bear Nose; wrong yet again. He went to school in SD? That he speaks fluent Lakota? He was adopted by the Bear Robe family? That several friends and family members started a yahoo group that was not made public? That Chuck's family has a drum group? That he's a Christian pastor? Or could it be, the heinous crime of moving to Georgia? GASP!! There isn't one thing here that points to plastic shaman, so what exactly is your point in putting this up? The real crime here is that someone has a wild hair in an uncomfortable place, is mad at Chuck, and using YOU. Someone is feeding you misinformation for their own edification. .. Please delete the topic matter this time, rather than deleting my post.
[Al's note: Childish remarks removed a second time. A third time will get you deleted.
You might make a better case if you were upfront about who you are, and if you didn't toss out wild accusations yourself.]
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But here's a question you could help answer, BP. If these charges from several sources are wrong, who has something against Benson and why?
I have no idea who has something against Chuck...all of us in life have our evil nemesis at one time or another....so be it. Jealousy and slander cut across all races, ethnic groups, interest groups, socioeconomic stratum, etc.
My main concern is that when one is placed on this "needs research" list even after the person has been vouched for (I believe I have the insight, experience, and common sense to vouch for Chuck), it almost feels like such an accusation is justified. In this particular case, we can see no evidence of the individual's misdeed(s). A "hidden language course?" So what!?!?
I think we've subsumed one of the oppressor's way of silencing the "ye olde superstitious, childe-like and sub-human Indians with their ignorant customs." This seems akin to telling me that I'm too stupid to think for myself, and that I need someone "wiser" to do my thinking for me. To THAT treatment, I certainly take umbrage.
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Paulie, hidden online groups, disguised as language courses, have been used by exploiters before. Think back to all the threads about the Cherokees of Kentucky-Chickamauga. The Binay use them too. These hidden groups often get used to string people along. The worst case I knew of was Jerry Edwards trying to talk an underage girl into running away and come to him.
So far we have your word, and that of a spammer who mysteriously joined right when the topic came up and refuses to say who they are, who is not helping either you or Benson at all.
That vs the two others who came to me, who I will contact and ask to come forward in public and talk about this. If they don't, obviously everyone here will draw the right conclusions about whether they can be trusted. That's where it has to stand for now. I'll let you know what they say.
And what you're asking, that we delete a whole topic because you don't like it, has never been done before. You'e asking for one person to be given special treatment like no else have ever received, based on your word and that of the spammer.
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Paulie, hidden online groups, disguised as language courses, have been used by exploiters before. Think back to all the threads about the Cherokees of Kentucky-Chickamauga. The Binay use them too. These hidden groups often get used to string people along. The worst case I knew of was Jerry Edwards trying to talk an underage girl into running away and come to him.
So far we have your word, and that of a spammer who mysteriously joined right when the topic came up and refuses to say who they are, who is not helping either you or Benson at all.
That vs the two others who came to me, who I will contact and ask to come forward in public and talk about this. If they don't, obviously everyone here will draw the right conclusions about whether they can be trusted. That's where it has to stand for now. I'll let you know what they say.
And what you're asking, that we delete a whole topic because you don't like it, has never been done before. You'e asking for one person to be given special treatment like no else have ever received, based on your word and that of the spammer.
Well then, do what you gotta do.
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So far we have your word, and that of a spammer who mysteriously joined right when the topic came up and refuses to say who they are, who is not helping either you or Benson at all.
That vs the two others who came to me, who I will contact and ask to come forward in public and talk about this. If they don't, obviously everyone here will draw the right conclusions about whether they can be trusted. That's where it has to stand for now. I'll let you know what they say.
And what you're asking, that we delete a whole topic because you don't like it, has never been done before. You'e asking for one person to be given special treatment like no else have ever received, based on your word and that of the spammer.
Of course I just joined. I was made aware of this topic, and joined in order to comment. That doesn't make me a spammer. It's not fair to say I've refused to give my name, because I've not been asked for it. Truth is, I am afraid of giving out information on myself. I don't want to be the next one hung out to dry.
I'm a good friend of Chuck's. I know the real deal about what's going on here. That aside, I'll wait to see how these two accusers step up to the plate, with hard evidence, and based on what criteria. Would you tell me how long this process takes? How long do they have?
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It seems like once Al has his mind made up, then one is as good as guilty.
Maybe Al should come after a BIG kid like me!
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Personally I'm always a bit uncomfortable whens someone says someone is a fraud just because someone else says they are. People say all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons, and if it is just what someone is saying who knows what is true. The thing is, that works both ways, both for or against.
I'm always more comfortable when there is proof of what a person is doing, because they have a website saying they are doing it.
I don't know anything about this situation, but reading through this thread all I see is now, with this being listed in research needed, is some questions being asked. I really doubt anyone who is legit would have a problem with people being encouraged to do that.
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What else can I do, Paul, besides wait for an answer from them? You're whining at me "Gimme what I want, now!" won't make them answer any quicker. And you're imagining him "found guilty" when no one else has said that just makes you look silly.
It's unintentionally funny when you label yourself and a middle aged Christian preacher as "kids" though.
And our new member suddenly claiming he (I'm guessing as to the gender) has to remain anonymous doesn't help you. By your standards, we shouldn't trust a thing Backatya or anyone associated with him has to say, and we should immediately delete everything from him.
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It's basically a family/friend forum. We asked several fluent speakers (family and friends) to help us with our language skills, and to put together a place to meet and catch up with each other. I don't understand why that's such a problem. You know how many people search Yahoo for the word Lakota, and add themselves to groups saying they're reincarnated Indian Princesses or some such nonsense? If you had a family site, would you want every reincarnated Indian Princess finding her way to you? Would you want to spend your day weeding them out? Is that even possible? Would you want some nut having access to your personal information? You KNOW the internet is full of people with issues. Some of these very same were blocked from the site when we chose to make it private. They're angry, and this is how they retaliate. Embarrassing, but that's the way they play. If this is the way they think they'll get even, whatever. We'll stand back and give them all the rope they need to hang themselves. That's fine. The more serious side to this is that this site has given out personal information. You want to put our site link up, go for it. However, putting people's addresses and phone numbers up, and their place of employment?? Doesn't it strike you as strange that a complete stranger would know all this about somebody? Wouldn't it seem that this person has known Chuck for many, many years? He has, but is now angry. In fact, he was instrumental in starting our site, but due to an argument, is now trying to ruin Chuck's reputation. People talking trash is nothing new, but putting someone in harm's way by assuming that these people are credible sources, is simply irresponsible. This is a personal vendetta. That's all it is. Whether or not I choose to reveal myself, has nothing to do with my speaking the truth. These people are using their connections to attempt to discredit a very dear friend of mine, and I'll stand by him AND his reputation. If you choose to label me a spammer, so be it. Really, it makes no difference to me. If you want to call me Mike, you can do that too. Doesn't change the truth. In all fairness, at least take Chuck's address and contact information down. Endangering someone's family and jeopardizing their jobs based on hearsay, is simply not right.
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Ferget it. It's like beating your head against a parking block.
It damages the concrete, and Al is right, it makes me look stupid.
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BYA, actually what you say makes sense about why the group went private, though I have no idea if the second part of what you say about what happened and who specifically did it is true or not.
No idea about the Mike comment, though.
The phone number was actually posted by Paulie, his boss's came from the original accusers. I'll delete his boss's number and the address and email addresses, at least. It's up to Paulie if he wants Benson's number deleted in his own post.
I haven't heard back yet from the two original people I got the information from.
This has been a damned frustrating experience for me as well.
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Here ya go Backatya......Or should I call you Chuck?
Below is the description on his site http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lakoliyapi/
Description
Hau. Léciya Lakota kin wólakoliya na lakol wico'han iwoglake mniciyapi. Lakol oyate hunh Wazi Paha na Wakpa Waste na Sicangu nahan ??nyan Najin oyanke etanhanpi ounyan kin le kágap. Tuwa tanyan lakoliyapi kin hécegla lakoliya wóglakapi kin onspekiyapi kte. Eyas Lakota tuwe kes iyuskinyan upi okihipi kte!
Hau. Lakotas meet here to talk about Lakota language and culture. This site was made by Lakotas from the Pine Ridge, Cheyenne River, Rosebud and Standing Rock Sioux reservations. Only those who are fluent speakers will be allowed to teach the Lakota language. However, all Lakotas will be joyfully welcomed!
So if this site is for "Lakotas" why is Chuck there?
The statement about who started the site is untrue as well because Chuck started it and he is neither Lakota or from any of those places.
True, he does speak the language well. This is because he did an immersion to learn it so he could make people believe that he is Lakota.
And believe me, I am not doing this out of spite or jealousy (Chuck has nothing to be jealous of, except for this fraud his life is simple) I am simply tired of all the ndn wannabees on the internet dis-respecting the culture by telling people they are something that they are not. No matter that the site does, in fact. help keep the langauge alive and informs on cultural topics, lieing in order to do it is pure dis-respect and fraud.
And for him it is more than the language. He performs Lakota ceremony as a Lakota holy man. He drums at powwows as a Lakota drum group. And he uses his site to get people there ( especially women) to feel sorry for him and send him money. To check this, join his site, write some of the members and ask them.
As for this topic going into the "needs research" file it seems to be only fair that further investigation should reveal the real truth.
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All the information you just now posted was provided by a man that, until a few months ago, called Chuck nephew. However, I understand your position. Just keep in mind several things here. The man feeding you this information, is the very same man that asked Chuck to perform adoption ceremonies several times in the past. He's known Chuck all these years, as is clear because the information he'd provided at the onset of this mess goes back to Chuck's school days, and yet NOW Chuck's a plastic shaman? Seriously, is any of this making any sense? This man is angry, and he's turned on someone he's been close to, and respected, for many, many years, and is now trying to turn people against him. Why would he say he isn't jealous or being spiteful unless he was trying to defend his ways? He's deferred to Chuck many questions on culture and language on so many occasions, but suddenly, NOW Chuck is plastic? If this is what he wants to do, he has to live with himself. The important thing here is, you've removed the personal info, and for this we are all grateful.
I'm sure this guy will give you names of these supposed taken advantage of women who have been robbed of their money. Why they would still be members of our site, I can't say. I'm guessing they're former friends, and now plants.
It's easy enough to find liars. Your site wouldn't be here otherwise. It's up to the rest of us to bring on the truth. It'll come out. Not worried. However, please DO interview the members of our group. You're welcome to join us any time. We've nothing to hide. Just a bunch of friends getting together. We have around 50 members, most of us ndn's.
Let's do keep this in the 'needs research' file. We appreciate your effort in getting to the bottom of this.
Oh and lastly, as much as I aspire to learn a thimble's worth of what Chuck knows about language and culture, I am not him. Just a friend, and a staunch supporter. Thank you for allowing me to have a voice.
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Backatya: The One Hawk is an Al Carroll sockpuppet account. He's really out there. Al, call your mom. She wants to give you a message.
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You have part of that right Big Paulie. It's a puppet of some sort, but it's not Al. We know who it is.
Al has been really helpful in this, once we got everything straightened out. We all just have to remain civil and calm, and these people will run out of steam. I can put the truth to anything they throw out there. We'll just wait them out. It's only a matter of time.
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I am not Al anybody nor am I anyones puppet.
Yes we have known of Chuck for several years but not back to any school. The information I posted comes from our own observation of his actions and reports from others.
We do not just except what others say about a person, that would be un-fair, we do our own investigation of reports. Investigation into the reports on Chuck has verified our suspicion of him. He is not the Lakota man that he has led people to believe he is for years.
Chuck .....oops, I mean Backatya, you have no clue who I am, man or woman. I am an observer, that is all. I don't know any cousin, uncle or other relative of yours, we are focused on you. If you think you do know me then give a call and we can talk.
One thing we do agree with is the revmoval of the personal information. It is not right to post that publically until the real truth is found.
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The information I posted comes from our own observation of his actions and reports from others.
You've not proven a thing. You are repeating hearsay, and that's not proof. That's gossip. We'll wait for Al to complete his investigation.
If it makes you feel any better to call me 'Chuck .....oops, I mean Backatya', you just go right ahead. It would just prove you wrong once again.
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Paulie, I think you've been on Yeagley's site too long. Like Yeagley and John Martin, you keep imagining you see me everywhere, and that anyone who agrees with me somehow must actually be me. But like Martin's paranoia, I'll take that as a compliment of how successful I am in making my points and winning arguments.
If you doubt Onehawk, the other mods in here, Frederica, Debbie, Barnaby, and Pat, can confirm the ISPs are totally different. And do you seriously think I could get strong NDN women to lie for me? I know better than try. (I expect you do too.) I also am getting pretty tired of your cheesy accusations without proof. For a scientist proud of looking only at hard facts, you sure do like to pick and choose what "facts," or even invent them to fit what you think before you know all of what's going on.
This has been one of the more difficult cases NAFPS has ever been asked about, and I think everyone involved has been pretty badly battered. Part of what seems to make this whole thing so rancorous is that the people involved know each other so well, and seem in many cases to be related by blood and adoption ties.
I did receive an answer back from one of the original people to bring this to my attention. And what he had to say, and the evidence he produced to back it up confirms much of what he originally accused Benson of:
Benson *has* done Lakota ceremonies. He openly admits to it in an email in which he also makes a lot of accusations against the people angry with him. There are literally dozens of people mentioned in that email, and it would hurt most of them to see their names dragged in here too. So in the next post I'll just post the relevant parts of that email.
And the original accuser also agreed to come forward, so I'll repost his email in full in the second post after this one, including a very long list of people he said will confirm what he said.
A quick thing about that online group: If you look through the posts it's clear the group is far more than a language course. It's largely about Lakota spiritual traditions. Yes, the group does not teach details of ceremonies (unless they were in the many deleted posts), but more than half the posts are Benson discussing about Lakota spirituality. Mighty strange for a Lakota language course and family group. And there are also those huge numbers of posts that have been deleted. It's obvious those deletions came from a lot of conflict. This is clearly not just two accusers like it seemed to be originally, but a great many angry Lakotas.
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The email where Benson admitted several times to doing Lakota ceremonies. Arrows added to the most relevant parts.
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Forwarded Message
To: lakoliyapi@yahoogroups.com
From: "Chuck" <lakoliya@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 09:00:06 -0000
Subject: [lakoliyapi] The one and only response to [Name deleted] drama...I'm done
....[Name deleted] talked about feeling the need to help me go to South
Dakota for hanbleceya if I needed it (I ended up not needing his
help). You tried to talk him out of it. WHY? Why is that any of your
business?!?
....You have accused me of being "controlling" . Who or what have I tried
to "control"? I don't need this class or site, I'm already fluent in
Lakota and well versed in the culture and history, thank you. And I
have real natives, many full bloods, that respect me and
>>>>have asked me to do ceremonies, etc. for them and their families. I didn't
promote myself or push myself on them, they came to me.
....As if all the other things aren't enough, you intentionally tried to get him to replace
>>>>>me doing the hunka ceremony in November. This is not today; he told me himself about it a few weeks ago and I just found out that you did this in a
class with others present. Why?!? Why?!? Besides the fact that it's
none of your business, nor is it your place under any circumstances
to even suggest such a thing, this is not your "class project". In
spite of your recent attempts to invite as many people as possible
from the class to attend,
>>>>>this is a sacred ceremony that has been planned for almost a year!
....You've successfully sabotaged
>>>>>our ceremony. Now because of your most recent tirade and
attempt to manipulate there are a number of other people who don't
want to be involved.
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Did the accuser mention that HE was the one asking Chuck to do the hunkapi, until he got mad at him? Chuck had performed several for him in the past, but now he's plastic? Come on. Give us some proof here.
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And the answer from one of the original accusers, along with a list of witnesses. The two of them have a long history of service in the tribal govt, and were vouched for to me by traditionalists.
I've deleted the phone number and enrolllment number and email addresses, but will pass along any requests to contact.
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Dear Mr. Carroll:
My name is Cyril Jerome Rousseau and I am an enrolled member of the Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe, enrollment number [deleted]. I am the one who brought attention to Chuck Benson being a fraud. I contacted a cousin, Gay Kingman-Wapato, about how to prevent him from performing sacred Lakota ceremonies.
I have heard Chuck telling me that he has went on hanbleciye (vision quest) in Pine Ridge several times. He has told me of performing Inipi ceremonies. He has told me of doing hunka ceremonies. All these ceremonies must be performed by a Lakota Wakan Wicasa (Lakota Holy Man). I am a whistle blower in this case because Chuck Benson is NOT a Lakota. If I am wrong on this then case is over. Every Lakota I know gets their children enrolled. Have him produce his enrollment card. He does not possess one.
His father was C. A. Benson, Sr., who was born in Cleveland, OH and he was of Irish descent. His mother Norris Mary (Snedeker) Benson was born in Panama City, Panama and she was of Cuban/Panamanian/French descent. They are both deceased. He has told students in the lakoliyapi and Lakotiya language classes that both his parents were part Lakota and that he grew up on the Pine Ridge Reservation. He is living a fantasy and his lies have caught up to him.
I am sending a posting that Chuck sent to all the members of the Lakoliyapi yahoo group on October 16, 2007 at 9:00 EDT. In this posting he ADMITS that he was going on a hanbleciye (vision quest) and some members of the class wanted to provide funds for his travel to Pine Ridge.
He also ADMITS that he has conducted hunkapi ceremonies for other Lakota. He conducted one for me on November 10, 2006 in Tempe, Arizona.
There are 4 ways to get adopted in the Lakota traditions. One is through blood, then through marriage, Hunkapi Ceremony, and "if it feels right between each person, then it is so." Since I am a Lakota elder, and a veteran, I am entitled to adopt in the latter way.
The following are people from the classes who have knowledge of Chuck Benson Jr., professing to be performing hanbleciye, hunkapi ceremonies or inipi (sweat lodge) ceremonies, and some witnessing his actual performance.
Joann Goff [email addresses deleted]
Mark Goff
Cheryl Grice
Lisa Kash
Bev Martin
Georgia Rousseau
Monique Rousseau
Larry Swimmer
Kathleen Franklin
May I suggest that when you contact them, that you have them attest to their knowledge of these facts. (i.e. Have you ever seen or heard of Chuck Benson Jr., performing Lakota sacred ceremonies, such as hunkapi, hanbleciye, or inipi.)
The posting in the other email I am sending, where he admits to conducting sacred ceremonies should be enough to silence the naysayers.
I hope this is what you were asking for. I am prepared for you to use my name. I can be reached at [Number deleted]. I may be able to get more information if you feel it is needed.
Thank you for your help.
C.J. Rousseau
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I was posting the email at the same time as your answer, BYA, so you didn't see it yet. Yes, he did.
Benson is not like the usual people we discuss here at NAFPS. No money changing hands, etc. So to me the best place for this thread to remain is under Research Needed, even though many say he's presenting himself as Lakota when he's not.
It seems at least a few Lakota accept him doing ceremonies, but many more are angry with him, since he's adopted and they feel he has no right. I think it was EW who pointed out, for the non Lakota in here like myself, that being an adopted Lakota does not confer the right to ceremony.
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That list of 'witnesses' is a joke. Most are hunka relatives and blood relatives, and even relatives of hunka relatives! Doesn't resemble a list of angry Lakota to me. Doesn't prove a thing.
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I read all the post here,
The research needed post are what they say they are,
If a person bring a complaint we put it here because there is no proof.
Then we ask people to provide proof one way or the other.
If you were put in the fraud section then there is proof to fraud. Simple.
Remember as I said many time before there is NO adoption by the Lakota Nations, there is only adoption by a family which gives you No rights to the nation's business/spirituality or issues.
You have the right to care for the family who adopted you in what ever postion they adopted you to.
I don't know this person and as we find in Indian country when you have one person getting mad at another then the who is mad makes false claims. I don't do know if this is true but It is one of the reason why we have this section because many complaints are sent and if there is no proof we put them here.
Instead of just providing proof it seems that one must condemn the people who have the website. I support this web site because we are able to see who is doing what. We all do research here. Many of these people affect our culture. AS a Lakota who lives on the reservation I do have a say even if it is a small say on the abuse of our culture. This may not be what is happeing in this case. BUT now you know what will happen if one of YOUR followers get mad at you.
One must always be careful when walking a good path.
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Al, we really appreciate your effort in this, and understand what a ridiculous situation this is. It's hard on us all. But, as long as the accuser throws stuff up here, we have the right to dispute it. I am not aware of posts being deleted from our group's site, but please know that the accuser was a moderator for our group until the #$&% hit the fan, so he's had access. And by the way, Chuck had performed the hunka ceremony for the accuser for two of those hunka relatives supplied on that list. So, if Chuck's plastic, I guess they aren't relatives after all. What a conundrum!
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I would have to agree!
Why would a person do a HUNKA?
Did everyone died so he needed new relatives?
I think need to understand culture more before they do these things.
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I would like to offer my sincere applogies to Mr. Larry Swimmer, who does appear on the accuser's list. He is in fact a Lakota. Sorry Larry!
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I don't know this person and as we find in Indian country when you have one person getting mad at another then the who is mad makes false claims. I don't do know if this is true but It is one of the reason why we have this section because many complaints are sent and if there is no proof we put them here.
If this is the case, then everyone is in danger of finding themselves in a situation such as this. If someone gets mad at YOU, for instance, they could add YOUR name to this section for all to see, as being 'under investigation'. This policy is a dangerous one.
Two of our own well-respected group members have just found that they had been added to the accuser's 'witnesses' list and have demanded removal. This witch hunt is falling apart. Please, let's wrap this up and put it to rest. There's been no concrete evidence provided up to this point, and we are getting tired of playing reputation ping-pong.
Your site provides an invaluable service to the community, and we are embarrased that we are having to tie it up with this ridiculous family fued.
Al, we are wondering what the timeline is on something like this. We would like to get this over with, and move on. We're sure you would too.
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Actually, BYA, what happens here on out is almost entirely in the hands of the people involved, not NAFPS. Tyhis thread stays up for all to see what's been uncovered, and that is that. That would've been true whether he'd been cleared or, as it turned out, has been found to be doing wrong.
But to say Benson has been in any way cleared is just bizarre. Just the opposite, he was caught in a pretty big lie and all you did, BYA, was admit that you knew all along he's been doing ceremony when he has no right to do so, according to Lakota traditions.
I received the emails this morning but have been involved with work all day. It appears the two people asked to be removed simply because they are mad at Benson's less than ethical or truthful activities being exposed, and thus they refuse to say what they know. Rousseau tells me he believed Benson and others putting extraordinary pressure on his list members to keep quiet. So if anything, the closest thing to a "witch hunt" is coming from those trying to hide what Benson has done.
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Rousseau tells me he believed Benson and others putting extraordinary pressure on his list members to keep quiet.
Mr. Rousseau, while attempting to 'expose' Chuck, you've exposed yourself to a great many people around you. Eyes have been opened, and hearts have been closed.
Retiring my ID,
Backatya
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Rousseau tells me he believed Benson and others putting extraordinary pressure on his list members to keep quiet. So if anything, the closest thing to a "witch hunt" is coming from those trying to hide what Benson has done.
My achin' behind!
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Hmmm,
The evidence that the accusations against Benson are indeed true seems to be mounting.
That public tirade shows a real lack of honor. What kind of "man" would do such a thing, especially to somebody who they consider a relative?
Certainly not a "man" who practices the Lakota virtues that they preach. Or any vitues for that matter.
Shamefull!!!!!!!!
So, now, with his arguement exausted, he (backatya/benson) "retires" his ID to go run away and hide.......... Because that is what scammers and charlatians do when they are exposed.
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...or good people do when they are exasperated by goofs.
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I know this Big Paulie guy. He is also known to law enforecement as Crazy Kooter. He's married to my niece up in Phoenix. He is a long time Hells Angel in Arizona.
[Barnaby's note: bizarre criminal allegations removed, user banned.]
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...or good people do when they are exasperated by goofs.
BP- true, and normally I would agree but by the evidence shown I think that is unlikely in this case.
I know this Big Paulie guy. He is also known to law enforecement as Crazy Kooter. He's married to my niece up in Phoenix. He is a long time Hells Angel in Arizona.
[Barnaby's note: bizarre criminal allegations removed, user banned.]
D the B I not sure if this was meant to intimidate somebody, or to dis-credit BP, but it is really not relevent to the topic.
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Yes, Paulie is a Hell's Angel. On Indianz.com he's quite upfront about it. Not sure how that's relevant either. Regardless of any alleged criminal past, I believe he's now in the grad program at ASU (same school I went to) in statistics, if he hasn't already graduated. NDNs with criminal pasts (if that is even true of Paul) aren't exactly unusual, and when they've gone onto make something of themselves, that's praiseworthy. Half the people I grew up with have records.
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Hells, no apostrophie.
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"...or good people do when they are exasperated by goofs."
That seems like a last resort, name calling when you've been found wrong. Grow up, Paul.
It hasn't been a good week for you, has it Paul? At NAFPS the person you vouched for as "good people" and thought was a Lakota minister turned out to a white guy posing as Lakota, doing Lakota ceremony he had no right to do, lying about it, and then pressuring the white people he's been leading on in his online spirituality group to say nothing.
You yourself admitted you looked silly taking this position at NAFPS and vowed to stop, then reversed yourself and appeared even sillier. You imagined Onehawk was me, then became embarassed when even your ally Backatya said that wasn't true.
On Indianz you kept embarassing yourself. You accused John Bishop of being me, and that turned out to be more of your paranoia. Bishop has been around on the net forever. Jana, who is no fan of mine, even found his yahoo profile.
Just like John Martin made himself look like a fool (for about the 11,937th time) by imagining Danny Moon to be me. I mean, you and Martin are a lot alike. You both bluster and bully when you know you're losing and look like fools, which just makes you look more foolish.
You both pull this phony tough guy act that absolutely no one buys, that just shows you feel your manhood is threatened, and makes you both look like either a 12 year old on the playground who thinks empty threats make them look like a man, or that you're both doing a very poor pro wrestler imitation. But I don't think you're the same people. Hanging around a professional imposter like Yeagley and a habitual liar and imposter like Martin/Siouxwannabe makes you think everyone is like that.
You say this is about your annoyance over what happened to Benson. But any blame for any embarassment over his wrongdoing being exposed ultimately falls on Benson and his defenders.
You openly say some of this conflict between us is your professional hostility, "hard science" vs the social sciences. Well...
1. Not being able to judge the facts
2. Deliberately ignoring facts
3. Avoiding facts you don't like
4. And worst of all, repeatedly inventing facts, sometimes out of paranoia...
All of those are sure not signs of a good scientist like you claim to pride yourself on being.
And you've stayed completely silent on the most troubling ethical issue of all. Doesn't it bother you that your number one fan is an in your face racist and repeated troll and imposter, John Martin/LakoDUH Siouxwannabe? He's up to, what, over two dozens racist posts, several threats, and trying to disrupt a thread honoring the memory of Floyd Red Crow, all in the past few days.
Not only that, you know full well he's an imposter, habitual liar, and violent racist, and yet you still do all you can to help him out at Indianz and NAFPS. You know full well that John Martin has claimed in the past six months to be:
Tallsoldier
A Gulf War vet
An Airborne vet
LakotaSiouxperman
Lakota and Oneida
A Cherokee plumber from Florida
A white fundamentalist
and an elderly woman living on Pine Ridge
You personally witnessed the last four at NAFPS, yet you say nothing about it, and do everything you can to help Martin knowing full well what he's done.
Or were you absent from NAFPS for awhile? I remember you got pretty quiet for awhile when you got so much criticism for your little bit of gay bashing.
Ironically I'm not the only one to think that Martin seems to have an unrequited gay crush on you. Yeagley will be so jealous over losing his boytoy, that is unless something unlikely happens, like the three of you are into daisy chains.
Again, for someone who prides himself on being an objective scientist, you pick and choose what facts to ignore, and you show poor judgement in what "facts" you choose to accept.
And it never occurs to you that buddying up to a violent racist (one who treated you like trash, calling you every vile insult in the book) and hanging out on a white supremacist/apple forum like Badeagle might not be the smartest career move, or show the best professional or scientific judgement? You originally went to Badeagle to challenge their line of BS, but there's little sign of that now.
It never occurs to you that the members of your professional groups or your supervisors might find this lack of judgement very interesting? You took what I said earlier as a threat, but it's plain and simple advice: It's just a matter of time until some jealous conservative white sees what you've done and your questionable judgement at NAFPS and Indianz as a chance to take down a rival a peg, get themselves the promotion or position you wanted.
Think about it.
I apologize to those of you who are shaking their heads over names they never heard over at another board. I wouldn't have had to if Paulie hadn't brought this over here.
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Well, back to my OP,
Myself:
All I know him by is personal contact. He's never did anything bad as far as I know.
My ego and personal identity is not wrapped up in (1) fraud hunting, (2) being accepted by square society, (3) being accepted by Indians, (4) being viewed as someone who is an academic hero, and (5) being respected by anyone for that matter, as long as they don't disrespect me to my face. They can love me or leave me. Screw 'em. I have enough friends.
I don't value this American society very much...never have and never will. I never want to teach for a "higher" education institution, other than as someone, invisible as it were, in the background. Although they are becoming more corporate in nature, such institutions are still ivory-towered bastions rage and fear full of cowards, passive-aggressive "bullies", and snitches. I prefer to utilize the (Laurence) Peterian circuloambulatory method of survival.
If you remember, it was John Martin who said some pretty rugged things about my family some time ago. You can let go of that conspiracy theory.
If what these folks say about Chuck is legit and if I am wrong, I will promptly admit it. Until then, have fun self-soothing.
But you must remember, (1) I never said he was a Lakota Minister; and (2) I never said he was a Lakota. (3) I DID say he was "Christian Minister."
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Rather than have the thread be sidetracked any further, let me suggest we keep this at http://www.indianz.com/board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=30284
Though I see that, over at Indianz, he can't resist starting yet another thread with more name calling and dubious claims.
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Well!!!
I can see that this has spun way off the original topic of Benson.
I am sure he is happy that focus is off him and he can slink back into his warm little nest of cult-like followers, where he can continue to insult the Lakota Oyate and culture with his pretense. Perhaps this was his intent here.
Benson is the type of coward who will never be man enough to admit to his own lies. He cannot even speak for himself, he gets his followers to do his bidding.
If you are one of his victims, don't blame yourself, he has been honing this skill for years and has fooled many inteligent folks.
His father passed that Irish gift of gab along to him but he chose to abuse his gift, using it to feed his own twisted ego and take advantage of others.
Like all of these self-centered egomaniacs, Benson has a severe inferiority complex which drives him to be accepted by anybody no matter what kind of lies it takes.
I am sure that when he's at the pulpit in his day job he doesn't preach Lakota Virtues, he wouldn't be accepted doing that. He takes "testimony" of sins from other people at that job but will not admit his own. What would his congregation think if they knew was preaching the Christain word to them and a different "word" to his internet followers?
Some may feel that because he is a Christian Preacher that these allegations against him can't be true. May I remind you that most cult leaders use that very pretense (or one like it) to gather thier flocks. Benson is a small-time charlatan, he is no Jim Jones, but dangerous none the less.
I want to thank everybody who contributed to this discussion, pro and con. It has opened many eyes and taken true guts on the part of some.
Yes, there are countless fakes, frauds and NdN wannabees on the internet and other places and they will never all be exposed but when just one is, that is one less out there. So if you care about truth and honor the Indian culture, be brave and step up when you suspect fakes. A good rule of thumb that I was taught is that if somebody proclaims themself as a mecicine man/woman, ask questions. Bring you questions to sites like this, where many people will see it, and try to sort out the truth.
Toksa Ake
One Hawk
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Got this final email from Rousseau.
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Dr. Carroll:
I want to correct where Chuck A. Benson, Jr. was born. It was Norfolk, Virginia instead of Arlington, VA on March 09, 1957.
It is my wish to close this investigation because your organization has effectively exposed him as a non-Lakota who was performing sacred rites. I doubt if we should hear from again. I stated just facts which he could not dispute.
If he is a Lakota, then have him show that he is enrolled. It is a simple request.
Thank you again for your help.
Cyril Jerome Rousseau
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Got this final email from Rousseau.
...It is my wish to close this investigation because your organization has effectively exposed him as a non-Lakota who was performing sacred rites. I doubt if we should hear from again. I stated just facts which he could not dispute...
Cyril Jerome Rousseau
I spoke to Mr. Rousseau this AM....And now I hvae no idea who to believe. Both Chuch and Mr. Rousseau are stubborn guys.
Maybe they're both right, or maybe they're both wrong.
Al is just keeping it going for his own perverted amusement.
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Paul, you have a disturbing habit of ignoring facts right in front of you, then making lies up when you feel like it, and topping it all off by adding childish insults into the mix. That doesn't reflect well on you, or your claim to be an objective scientific researcher.
Rousseau explicitly asked me to END any further investigation, and that's what I've done.
Ironically this whole thread would have been just a single post without you and Backatya dragging it out repeatedly. I suppose both NAFPS and Rousseau should thank you because the email where Benson admitted his wrongdoing would not be here if you hadn't pushed me to contact Rousseau.
So I'll let this thread end, just as I indicated before in the previous post. Will you? I'll even give you the last word, since you seem too immature to do without it, ever. With friends like you, Benson sure doesn't...you get the point I hope.
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I've come across Chuck Benson because he claims to be the relative of a person I have had to deal with who has been abusing my ancestor's name for a long time. They are clever, I'll hand that to them but in time, the truth will be seen by everyone.
Here is a family tree Chuck Benson posted up on a couple of websites some time ago. I discovered it and contacted him before I realized he was a relative (whether legal or not) of Leonard Little Finger, whom my issue is with. I had previously seen a very similar tree presented by Leonard Little Finger in court.
http://issuu.com/spottedelk/docs/family_tree_posted_by_chuck_benson_claiming_ancest?viewMode=magazine
Chuck removed it but not before we saved the GEDCOM file and printed it out. What you see here is a photo of the printed copy. There are many more pages but these are the pages pertaining to Benson and Little Finger.
Little Finger destroyed DNA evidence when he burned my great great grandfather's lock of hair. He did this against a judge's order at the time in tribal court. This matter is still in dispute so I'm not going to talk too much more about it but in time, people will know the truth. I have the probate papers concerning my ancestry and I am in the process of correcting a lot of misinformation out there concerning my ancestry because of this man's false claims.
Anyway, I came across this thread last night and it caught my interest because I know a lot about these people mentioned. I'd really like to be in contact with the folks mentioned from up at Cheyenne River.
Benson also claims to be related here in this interview (which I think was a publicity stunt) because our Mni ikala wozu ceremony would involve much more than what actually occurred in a very short amount of time.
http://publicradioexchange.org/pieces/4961/transcripts/4961
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http://publicradioexchange.org/pieces/4961/transcripts/4961
[/quote] from the transcript:
"Chuck Benson is Little Fingers grandson. He drove from Tucson, Arizona to help out with the ceremony. For him the challenge is how to forgive and yet find justice in a memory that won’t die."
Since the issuu site doesn't appear to work right now, I'll share snapshots of the images here.
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0Bx6l408-Xp-9YWYzMGMwZjktYTBiMi00YjEzLWIzMzYtNjE4MWE2ZDEzOGU3&sort=name&layout=list&num=50 Page 2
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0Bx6l408-Xp-9YWYzMGMwZjktYTBiMi00YjEzLWIzMzYtNjE4MWE2ZDEzOGU3&sort=name&layout=list&num=50 Page 1