Author Topic: Wayne  (Read 28102 times)

Offline karen mica

  • Posts: 34
Re: Wayne
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2010, 04:41:00 am »
" Culture Vulture" does seem to be a very appropriate description in many cases!

 

I have never done ceremony for anyone, just never felt a personal justification in doing so.   

My own thought is that ceremony, any ceremony, belongs to the originator, because this was truly his/her personal prayer.

The person who "first" created it, used it for a specific purpose or a specific need, and not for this person themselve, but for someone else. 

The creator of the original ceremony was acting as an "interface" between himself/herself and the Greatest Mysteries...in order to petition for a particular outcome.   

This, would have been an extremely personal event, involving very long internal struggles to even get oneself close enough to a place where this sort of communication is possible.

No man off the street, so to say, is anywhere near to this capacity.

So even trying, to copy something of such profound sincerity, is a mockery.   

And yes, some were taught to carry on the prayer in the same way, but many others have not had the sincerity or the internal struggles, or even the intentions that the originator had at the time.

And I would think that it takes a very special sort of person to do this the right way, and not just someone thinking it`s cool, to pretend to do it. 

And because of the real potential through knowledge and sincere communication of this kind, of course it would be among those first things high jacked or appropriated by the spiritually asleep or...better known, as the new age movement.

Another thought, is simply that if a ceremony becomes a (ritual) in this way, it loses it`s power and becomes a block to the place, it once led to, so those new age-rs attempting to use any of these things through simple repetition, copying or the in the wrong way, are already stopped from gaining anything from them, other then a few bucks for the performance.

 


Offline educatedindian

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4740
Re: Goodbye
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2010, 05:06:38 pm »
This is my goodbye from your board.
I've read a lot of articles already and found, that your way of dealing with people is not my "cup of tee".
I've seen people who apologize again and again, even begging for mercy, and what do you do here?
You kick them further down in the dust!
Even people who practise their own spirituality (of their own country) are not safe from your superiority!
If this is how natives treat people and yes i know i'm generalizing now, but hey! so do you all the time over here!
Then i will not be part of this abuse of people anymore!
Go on with your rambling and falsely accusing people, but without me!
I met some people in the states wich do not do these things and they called themselfs natives.
I will no longer name any names, since i would not want you to smear their name!
I think it is time for you to do what you tell people to do:"get of your highhorse and start treating people with respect!!!"
Because of the way you treat people with other beliefs (shamanism, reiki, shamballa, tantra and so on) you lost the chance to teach me what you try to "sell".

The few people who did treat me with respect: thanks.

I hereby demand you close my account and delete my posts, if not legal action will be considered.

Still.... many blessings,

Wayne

Edited for the thanks to the people who did treat me right. (just to make sure i didn't get that one again)

Apparently this was NOT his final good bye. He sent one (last?) legal threat. Here it is, followed by my reply.

-----------------

I noticed a lot of copyright violations on the forum.

Did have the express permission to have text from an other website posted on your forum?

I know of at least two which are not.

I hereby order you to delete any text from the websites: www.natures-way.mosher.nl and www.the-native-way.com

These two websites did not give you permission to use any text (copyrighted by law) on your forum.

You are in direct violation of the copyright-act and authors-rights.

I so hereby demand, that you delete any and all text pertaining and leading to these two websites.

Sincerely,

Wayne Mosher

-----------

There are no copyright violations. Under Fair Use Doctrine, a site may be quoted for purposes of critique or identification.
 
It seems the Mr. Spiritual act is no longer being used by you. It's a common tactic for exploiters and frauds to claim "copyright violations" to silence critics.
 
These emails will be posted so everyone can see the true you.

Offline nemesis

  • Posts: 526
Re: Wayne
« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2010, 08:40:03 pm »
Good reply Al

At first I felt a bit sorry for Wayne, partly because his immature style of posting suggested that he was a teenager.  Many people act in a foolish and arrogant manner as adolescents, I certainly did, and I think that it is kind to remember what it was like and to cut them a bit if slack.  One of the things that shocked me the most about Wayne's websites is that, from his photos, he appears to be middle aged.   

I appreciate that those of you who have posted here longer than I have probably encounter this kind of person all the time, but I really do feel shocked at his behaviour.

It has also left me wondering about whether there is a specific diagnostic category of narcissistic mental illness or disorder that many frauds and culture vultures might fit into. 

I do not know of such a category, but it may be that it exists but simply has yet to be defined.  I would like to give this some further thought and may start a thread on the subject so that people can share their thoughts re this too.

Offline Ingeborg

  • Friends
  • *
  • Posts: 835
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Re: Wayne
« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2010, 09:48:27 pm »
quoted for documentation


I don't charge for the gift!
Quote
i don't see the harm in charging money for ones time spent.
I charge for the time i spent on it!
Time i could have used to do things with my family, or to get groceries, or.... you name it.
I have a paid job in wich i get paid for my time, so why not for other time spent?
My job is working with refugees, wich i get paid for by my employer...... do i make money on the sorrow these people have endured? No, i just get compensated for the time i put in it.
The very good quote from Chief Looking Horse does not pertain to this, since i do not sell ceremonies!
Please read carefully.

Many blessings,

Wayne




My point exactly critter, for family or yourself you don't get paid.
So all else is time wasted, unless ..... you get something in return, like from your bosses.
What if someone has his/her own company..... they also charge for the time spent!
So i don't see the difference.

Many blessings,

Wayne




I was told, that there is a little Lakota in me, but so little, that i will never claim to be part Lakota.
It is in the region of 1/16th.
Too far away to have any claim whatsoever.

I understand, now that it takes a lot more time and it is only for REAL natives, wich i am definitly not!
Altough i'm still proud to have Lakota ancestors, just as proud that i have Yewish ancestors and so on.
They are all equally important to me.

I dealt with people coming to me and wanted to know about some sacred things in the following matter:
Why do you want to know, you haven't been among natives.
I will teach you about yourself, if you let me.

Since i'm only aware of one nature-man.... myself, a nature-man is trying his best to live with nature.
Also is he learning everything he can about the nature surrounding him.
He is aware of all the nature around him and is respectfully using nature to help himself and others.

Using the intention of something is also not easy to explain, but i will give it a try.
Please don't bite me on examples.....
Say, that i would want to do a sweatlodge, i would experience a sweatlodge and ask questions about it afterwards, so i can form a picture in my mind about what the purpose is of the sweatlodge.
It is for cleansing and for spiritual cleansing, and more...
I would research on how to achieve a similar effect and if it is possible i would try it out with some people who understand the purpose of it also.
Afterwards i would ask them what needs to be adressed in order to make it better.
In this way no native traditions are being used, only the intention of it.
Ofcourse i would need some sort of construction to let the people sweat, so a lodge would still be needed.
I would explain to people, that this event is not native.
I hope you understand my explanation, if not.... keep asking.

I do say, that i was a fraud, since i did sell ceremonies, wich i thought were native.
I'm not proud of that part, but i also do not wish to hide it.

Creator grants those gifts, i believe i received that gift also.
I never asked for it, i just got it.
I see it as a talent and a lot of people get rich of off their talent (footbaal-players and so on for example)
I do not wish to get rich of off my talent, just to be able to make a decent living.
What a decent living is for me..... i can pay my bills, buy groceries, get some nice toys for my son, on occasion get my wife something nice.... that kind of a living.

I guess i have been defending it.... it is not my intention and yes, the more i read posts here, the more i come to the conclusion that something went wrong in my...... education.
I did learn a lot from it, but i now know it can never be the real deal.
I will go on with what i did learn, without claiming it to be native.

This is one of the reasons i joined this board, it opened my eyes!
I now know that, there's always a reason for things to happen.
Thank you all for virtually kicking my ass  :D

I do hope we will be able to teach all this i have learned to other people also.
I cannot do this alone, and need your help.
I will do whatever needs to be done, to help you people to expose false claims.

I also hope, that you see, my intentions are ok and that i have nothing to hide.
We will still have some different views on things, that is ok with me.
We live in different worlds so to say, you have your views wich come from your heritage, i have mine.
Let's respect that of eachother, so we can help eachother.
I don't remember who said it, but i remember something like this:"we are all brothers and sisters, red, white, black and yellow, we are all related" this goes on offcourse, but i do not want to fill in words i don't remember anymore.
Let us all be the brothers and sisters we are.

Many blessings,

Wayne




« Last Edit: October 02, 2010, 09:51:13 pm by Ingeborg »

Re: Wayne
« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2010, 10:09:41 pm »
what a jerk. just saying.
press the little black on silver arrow Music, 1) Bob Pietkivitch Buddha Feet http://www.4shared.com/file/114179563/3697e436/BuddhaFeet.html

Offline Freija

  • Posts: 288
  • I Love YaBB 2!
Re: Wayne
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2010, 09:11:37 am »
I guess Wayne came in here for some kind of validation from you guys.
"You´re ok, you´re one of us!!"
Seems like many frauds think that smoothtalking combined with a few lies will do the trick.
Which in itself is offensive to Native people, as if you guys wouldn´t be able to identify the "real deal".

The ultimate test is when the person in question is asked to give up something.
Stop doing ceremonies, stop charging, stop working with other frauds....
When the reluctance of giving up money and power is larger than the wish to make a change, then you know without a doubt what kind of person you´re dealing with.
Medicinepeople give up everything for their people. That´s the difference.

Offline Durare

  • Posts: 12
Re: Wayne
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2010, 01:18:59 pm »
Quote
The ultimate test is when the person in question is asked to give up something.
Stop doing ceremonies, stop charging, stop working with other frauds....
When the reluctance of giving up money and power is larger than the wish to make a change, then you know without a doubt what kind of person you´re dealing with.
Medicinepeople give up everything for their people. That´s the difference.

Well said!