Tsisqua

[wolfhawaii]

It is good to hear traditional voices here....I have sent a PM to Moma_Porcupine.

[frederica]

Don't need any challenges, let it be. Please. Thank you.

[TRIBALMOONS@yahoo.com]

When distention is created by others we all feel the repercussions, I d not see what fighting or arguing amongst ourselves is going to solve although to outsiders reading these posts they are surely smiling and enjoying the tensions. I belong to NAU and as far as I can tell and everything I have seen it is on the up and up.....Remember Tsi, ONLY THE GUILTY NEED DEFEND THEMSELVES.
I agree.......let it go.

[wredgranny]

  Siyo Mooniesixkiller,tohitsu?

 I have question for you please,what is this christian colonial based nonsense of(ONLY THE GUILTY NEED DEFEND THEMSELVES.)What has this to do with Traditional first Peoples? This is not as I was raised to believe to be so,our Peoples gave all fair chance to speak,and YES,to defend self were a question raised.The accuser speak and all would listen in silence and respect,then the ACCUSED spoke and the SAME respectful silence was given,if there were others who wished to speak on this matter,each was given that chance to do so.Only by hearing ALL sides/opinions could FAIRNESS be made in deciding.ONLY yonega ties the hands and gags the mouths so THEIR side alone is heard,how well WE understand that.In the eyes of yonega ALONE are you GUILTY before a "trial" of you peers/Elders,by the words of another. Only yonega "snipe",lash about,and make hidden comments,with out a fair chance to answer in defense of self,kin,or friend.And so,I ask most humbly is this a place of Native first Peoples,or is this a "mud slinging" yonega COURT? In our languages there are no "curse/cuss" words,WE do NOT abuse each other as Tsisqua and others have been abused by this "moma porcupine" person,even an ENEMY was given fair treatement by our Peoples. I have been reading here in this place some very strange "ways" that are SAID to be "traditional" to OUR Peoples,and it leave me to wonder who traditions they are?
aisv Nvwadohivnv
granny

[A.H.]

While I am still less than a newbie here (the ranks progress too fast on this forum I guess - since officially I am already junior member) and Moma porcupine doesn't need me to stand in her defense and I don't have enough credibility here anyway... but still.. can't stay silent.

I got one of the first meaningful replies around here from her, when I came rushing in with the subtility of a bulldozer.

She is very thorough in her research and usually raises very substantiated questions as far as I read her posts.

She might have read more colonial mind and aspirations than there really are in me, but at the same time offered many good points that were relevant. 

So she might have sensed or read more fraud than there is to any of you in question, but she only asked questions...

This forum is harsh in style sometimes, but when I see what kind of frauds they encounter I am not too surprised anymore.

I guess you (we) should temper our egos enough to be able to bear occasional accusations and doubt and learn something when there is something to learn. If you are innocent, you can only laugh for yourself and try to explain your position - but even if you stay percieved wrongly - noone can hurt you - because you have clear conscience. But if you are guilty...

I agree it is a little "privileged" not to introduce yourself when this is a standard on this forum, but after seeing what a certain group around Lekay is doing to Al - like the last yahoo group I noticed - devoted to him and honoring him with the title "AltonCarrollIsCrazy" I can understand why one of the more active and inexorable NAFPS members doesn't wish to expose herself - if she is backed and trusted by other non-anonymous moderators and administrators her credibility is granted through them like Moma correctly stated herself.

I hope this intervention helped anyone.

best

[frederica]

Thank you A H, that's well said. Everyone has a place. We have enough going on without fighting among each other. And I'm sure as Moonie says, others are enjoying this.

[educatedindian]

It's kind of a compliment in a way, that they feel the need to go to such lengths, and funny that they keep failing so miserably. That yahoo group has a grand total of a single member (from Ireland!) and no messages. Just a long rant on the welcome page. Probably they expect it to be deleted shortly as libelous, which it is. At least they're bothering to come up with a new set of lies...

Granny, good to see you here. I haven't been by the Powwow group in awhile, but sometimes I get very busy in here.

Sorry to sidetrack this thread. I'm done.

[TRIBALMOONS@yahoo.com]

Hello Granny, I am only saying that Tsi does NOT need to defend herself. NO ONE does unless they are guilty of something, of which TSI, is NOT. I don't know enough of the history of Mama, or Tsi, for that fact, what I am saying is that outsiders are enjoying every ounce of distention that is being created here. When and why has it become open season on those who are truthful and doing the right thing, as both Mama, and Tsi, are doing? Because it seems to me that since Raven Crow came and did His/Her thing, and we outted Him/Her, there has been nothing but accusations and dis accord here and it's almost enough to make me want to leave, but I am standing firm because this Forum does so many great things, things that both Mama Porcupine and Tsi have been involved in and with, and I think the doubts that are being created are bringing many pleasures to those who have been found GUILTY. This is not a court of law, this is a group of people who believe in preserving the old ways the best we can in a modern world, because I can assure you, if this were the old days......This would NOT be happening.

[Tsisqua]

Considering the amount of times this thread has been read in the past few days...I have to agree with you Moonie...and I have stayed quiet on this matter since my last posting..as I have nothing further to say....I dont feel its necessary to keep going over and over the same points raised when answers have been given....its pointless and futile....people will take all other people as they find them...trust is a thing earnt...as is respect...and we have nothing to hide....there are enough people who are members of NAU...and other groups we associate with...respected people of ndn community...who we know in 'real' life...people I could quite easily round up and ask them to post here to varify who I am and who NAU is...but I dont feel its necessary....I have no issue with people coming to their own conclusions...a tree's worth is shown by the fruit it bares....

With respect,

Tsissy

[wredgranny]

  Siyo Mooniesixkiller,you are most right,Tsisqua do not need to defend self,nor I too defend her. We need to stay focas together and stop those taking from our Peoples,we need a place such as this to meet as equals no matter the Nation and do this work. We need to respect each other as we should,and as for those who are "peeking" in as cowards to seek out a place to "stir" trouble,they are very simply that,cowards. Even a close family at times disagree,so long as it is done with respect we soon learn to agree to disagree with grace.As to "ego" I have none,and it is no "self" thing to speak in honesty of what ones Elders taught.Truth,at times to those who do not know ones ways,perhaps does not set well with anothers views of what is true. I respect the words of all,respect their right to speak them,but attacking each other moves no mountains. Let us then move forward in peace,and seek to end those who would steal and sell our heritage.
adadoligi granny

[wredgranny]

 LOL! I forgot to say,if they are SO busy to watch what we are saying,perhaps they will not have the time TO make troubles,eh?
granny

[frederica]

I wish Granny, I wish, lol.

[Moma_porcupine]

Thanks for the kind words ... and acknowledgment for what I do here . I do hope it helps some people ... Thats why I contribute what I do .

I wish this hadn't gotten so personal - because it wasn't.

No matter who the people are who are involved, I think there is a differnce between being an anonymous poster, and a website with all anonymous moderators. Before I joined this website i checked out who is running it and who might have access to my personal information. I was able to investigate Al Carroll to the point I felt he was who he says he is and does have verifiable support and connections in the Native community. I was able to decide he was probably trustworthy and accountable and hadn't done anyone anything I felt was wrong . If everyone here was anonymous I couldn't have checked that out.

I am anonymous but I'm just a poster here. i'm not a moderator or the owner of the site. I don't have access to anyones private information. I can't be looking at anyones ISP or email or even possibly going into their private messages. I don't know what website owners can do, but I trust that whatever the owners of this website can do is probably going to be reasosnable and fair . the only reason I can check this out is because they are not anonymous I can look at their past history their connections in the native community, and see that I am comfortable with how they have (or have not) disclosed or used private informtion.

Lots of people who post here don't introduce themselves - even a couple of the moderators - and as long as people aren't linking what they do on NAFPS to other activities in their personal lives or on other websites that involve the public trust, I don't see why it is that important to do so.

I'm not neglecting to introduce myself becase I feel above everybody else or because i have something I want to hide. I would love to explain my own perspective because my life has taught me a lot and given me an unusual perspective it would probably be valuable to share. I am very comfortable with who I am. The problem is , I really don't feel safe to put the information out there that could help identify me.

But I will explain something which may help people understand my "attitude".

I haven't lived an easy life and as a young person I lived through some pretty severe abuse, at the hands of both non native people and Native people in a Native community.  All of those people were older and in some ways wiser than me, and there was always people who didn't want to see, and who chose to protect friends and family members who were more important to them than me. Becoming an adult in these situations, I learned to think for myself and that just because someone occupies a position of authority or even is highly estemed in the community doesn't mean everything they are doing needs to be respected. Some of these people who were abusers also shared really valuable things with me, so I know people can share something that is like the rock of gibalter and guides you through your whole life, and a few hours later this same person can begin hitting you for no reason or threaten you with violence if you ever talk about being abused.

It was only through learning to talk about it I was able to begin to be emotionally healthy.

If I seem mouthy and disrespectful of peoples positions this is why. I learned from these experiences that there is good and bad in everyone, and I am deeply committed to  supporting the good and confronting the bad, no matter what peoples seniority or personal position is.

I don't think that just because people post here , or just because people are Native or partly Native, or just because people have some traditional teachings or are older, or just because people are somewhat respected in the Native community , or just because people are opposed to some forms of fraud or exploitation, means they should consider their own public activities beyond question.

Having already lived through too much abuse and still having some effect like mild PTSD I am also very protective not to expose myself or my family members to more. Which is one reason why I am so protective of my identity .

Although my personal story is very common , I am a bit uncomfortable sharing even this much, but maybe it will help people understand why I seem to have an attitude, and where part of this comes from.

I'm not a young person and I really feel I earned my 'attitude' honestly. And I am sorry if it is this "attitude" has created some misunderstandings.

And because I am anonymous- there is no way to verify if any of this is even true - so - even this ...and anything else I say... might be a complete lie ... Which is another reason I try to make no claims about myself and just stay with things that people can verify. Because on line I think people should always be skeptical about anything anyone claims , and I don't want what I contribute here to in any way rely on claims people can't verify.

And no i don't really want to put this information in the introduction where it is easy for people to find because people wanting to discredit me will probably find a way to use this to do so.  And it is very close to some nerves . It's been really hard to decide to even post this much personal info  ...

[bls926]

Thank you, Moma. Although it wasn't necessary, it's good to know. I'm a relatively new member here, but I have never seen you be rude or obnoxious to anyone. You ask questions, but that's what everyone does here. I've also noticed that you do your research well and can back-up anything you post with facts. I appreciate that. You never go off half-cocked, making accusations that can't be verified.

I agree with you that there's a difference between an anonymous poster, without access to anyone's personal information, and an administrator or moderator of a forum. Admins and mods usually do have access to personal information, including someone's name, e-mail address, ISP and IP. I know cause I'm an administrator on another forum. I feel this is information that should never be disclosed; I respect our members' privacy. I'm uncomfortable with anyone who has this type of information making statements about posting it. Threats of posting someone's personal info or their location or IP should never be made, even if you never would actually do it.  When I see this type of info posted, it infuriates me. I won't even post pm's or e-mails I receive, unless I have the person's permission to do so. As an administrator or moderator you have a responsibility to your members that shouldn't be taken lightly. Giving out personal information crosses the line. I've seen this happen a couple times since I joined NAFPS. It's one thing if a person gives out their own information, as I do, and something else entirely when someone else is doing it, especially when that someone is anonymous.

[wredgranny]

  Siyo moma porcupine,age,nor troubles give us "right" to be cruel,we walk this life time together,we learn,or refuse to learn,that alone is our "right".My heart aches for your abuses,if they happened,you in truth post in circles,but as a child who self faced true abuses if it is so my prayers include you. I will in time make introduction,though most here of our Peoples know me already.I do not claim to be the only holder of wisdom,nor the only human to know trouble,my own personal fight with such as steal our Cultural heritage is my children and grandchildren,those left to me. My eldest son was murdered in a most horrible way by White Supremists,his body put through a nine foot propeller of a river boat,leaving very little for my mourning,he was four months from twenty first birthday. So yes,for me,in so very MANY ways,it is a personal fight.

 
Real Love!

I still remember when my little boy was two,he came running up to
me with tears on his little cheeks.
His little hand was swollen so hot and red it looked,what
happened to you baby where the first words from my lips.
His little face so brown and sweet,so rosy were his cheeks,so
sturdy and so healthy it made me proud to look.
I have something for you mommy one hand behind his back,what is
it little one I asked?
I wanted to show you that I loved you, so I picked you this rose
he answered back.
His little hand came forward with a small pink clover flower
clutched tight,in all my life I have never felt so loved.
To pick for me this flower bees he had to fight,for love of me he
took the sting,smiled throgh the pain,to give his mother the greatest
treasure of her life.
That little boy is gone now he has passed through Heavens
Gates,but the love he left within my heart can never be replaced!

I have that "rose"still today!
granny!


Jehrimia 4-29-1976  to  12-13-1996