NAFPS Forum
General => Member Introductions => Topic started by: NeoPaleo on October 17, 2013, 06:43:20 pm
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I appreciate the work that has been done to educate the interested.
I have a question, I'm not finding a dictionary on the frequent terms used in the discussions on this board.
Is there one here?
Thanks
NP
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Welcome to the forum! I don't think we have an official dictionary, so if a term, or terms, are unfamiliar to you, just ask! Someone will know the answer.
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Oh Hi!
Yes, Ok.
What is meant by "White" in describing a person or a group, and is it the same?
What is meant by "wannabe" in describing people or a person.
I've seen these terms used often in discussions.
Let me add that I know what most are using the words for, in its particular context,
But sometimes it's ambiguous.
And I feel the subject matter should never be ambiguous.
And I will give a my reason why,,
First "White" in the context of Race.
The term white is merely a legal fiction developed by the founders of America.
Which has led to the reality of a bunch of wannabes.
Which it appears is a term for outsiders who are not part of a particular culture.
Can of worms left open for any who care to examine.
In all respect
NP
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I guess for me it White means the European descent people.
I never though of it as the founding Lost guy of american ;D ;D (Just Joking)
It is not a proper term for other race that lives in my country do you
know what term you would think would be more proper to call European descent
that would include all of you?
Wannabe is nothing more than someone who wants to be something that are not
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Well, hello!
I guess European decent generally is probably good, or one could respect individual ancestry and list German, England, France e cetera as one see fit.
I really think that we must respect all people.
I have more personal reasons for being very specific about people's origin which I will ultimately discuss at a more comfortable time.
A hint, I have an Anglo surname but my appearance and ancestry is so far removed from England it's ridiculous.
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Each of us is an individual here.
I'm personally fine with ambiguity.
If someone uses a term like "white" and we are not sure how they are using it, we can ask them.
I'm white, as in my skin color and whole being-ness is considered white, and I therefore get white privilege here in the USA.
My ancestors were settler colonials.
I'm an outsider to NDN cultures. I'm an ethical outsider, meaning I don't try to take what is not my own.
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I am Lakota and Dakota born Native and when people ask me what i want to be called
I say Ihunktonwana, Pabaska, Sisseton-Dakota and Hunkpapa, Shihasapa, and Oglala- Lakota
but that is a mouthful so maybe just Native. ;)
my skin is brown, my hair black, my eye brown which means i look like
at least 3/4 of the world today. I born and live among my people on the reservation where
i choose to live today. I follow my culture and way of life. I never had to be anything else
but what i was born, it is hard for me to understand
why people would want to be "Indian" (the old term) when my people have such
a hard time in life,
but what surprise me is that they make money off our name and
our ways of life most of it they make up by using fraud and lies to steal money from people
who have been hurt in their lives and that is just plain wrong.
They misrepresent who we are as a people and what we believe in.
They want to be something they are not and never will be. They Want to be something
they are not.
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Ahhhmmm,
Deep Breath.
Thank you for sharing.
I am born into white culture in USA, my life is bombarded by cliche'.
White culture calls me a hippie, white trash, biker (I don't even own a bike)
Etcetera.
White privelidge is a thing of the past, white doesn't get you anywhere anymore.
It never got my family any farther then Off their homeland or the reservation, by choice or otherwise.
My hair is Black/Sliver used to fade to red-brown when I was younger.
My skin is olive/white and goes copper with any exposure to the sun.
My eyes are brown,
I've been mistaken for middle eastern by middle eastern people and Americans.
That's irony for you.
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Ahhhmmm,
Deep Breath.
Thank you for sharing.
I am born into white culture in USA, my life is bombarded by cliche'.
White culture calls me a hippie, white trash, biker (I don't even own a bike)
Etcetera.
White privelidge is a thing of the past, white doesn't get you anywhere anymore.
It never got my family any farther then Off their homeland or the reservation, by choice or otherwise.
My hair is Black/Sliver used to fade to red-brown when I was younger.
My skin is olive/white and goes copper with any exposure to the sun.
My eyes are brown,
I've been mistaken for middle eastern by middle eastern people and Americans.
That's irony for you.
Neo, I don't agree that white privilege is a thing of that past.
I personally may not be perceived by mainstream white culture as a "good white". I may be looked down upon because I'm a "poor white". But I still have white privilege.
By saying that I have white privilege I am not saying that everything is groovy for me, that other white people all approve of me, that I'm at the top of the heap. I may have a challenging life because of my income, class, beliefs, abilities. But none of that exempts me from white privilege.
When I walk into most commercial establishments, restaurants, stores, health care clinics, theaters, when I walk down the street - I'm seen as white.
Neo, by your reference to family on the reservation, I'm assuming you are NDN. I'm an outsider, I'm not NDN. But I can speak from experience about white privilege. Those of us perceived by others to be white do benefit in USA society. Even those of us who are poor and struggling.
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Please explain white privelidge, I'm not seeing it.
How do you, because of white skin do you have it better?
Where is your personal contrast for the difference to be examined?
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Please explain white privelidge, I'm not seeing it.
How do you, because of white skin do you have it better?
Where is your personal contrast for the difference to be examined?
Because I have white privilege, it can be hard for me to see, cause I'm in it. I can take it for granted, I could decide to not examine it, I don't have to think about it. Which are more examples of white privilege. :)
Even if I was poor, visibly disabled, gay, and pagan, I still have the white thing going on for me. I'm not automatically guilty or bad because of this, and I don't necessarily want this, but it exists.
Here are some examples:
I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.
I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.
When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.
I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.
I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.
I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.
I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.
I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.
If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.
Examples above are all direct from here http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html (http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html) , many more ideas there
Instead of "privilege" the word "advantage" could be used. I have an unearned advantage.
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White Prividge is all around me :(
I see it everyday
I live in a state where they hate my people for who we are
and that we still live; so I dont see it as something of the past
but an everyday thing, I still cant go into a store, gas station,
restaurant, and banks and where people will wait on me. I am followed
in all of the place I mentioned.
I go to meeting and the people make you feel like why are you here?
racism hurt and i lived it everyday
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Earthw7,
I feel your pain, believe Me.
I live in a state that is more of a reservation than a state, Hawaii is called.
Many think its paradise, I used to think that, when you're young the prejudice rolls off more easily.
The irony for me here is the local population see me as just a haole, Indian or Not,
Just a fricken Haole.
But I learned a valuable lesson here, I look enough brown that I get mistaken for being a local until I talk.
Well then I'm just a f haole.
I've always had more local friends then white friends but it doesn't really help,
Because even after many many years I'm just a f haole.
Now I just tell em to call me a f indian.
Own their negativity is my advice.
Your description of privelidge sounds like fear, loathing.
And Ignorance.
I married a "white" girl and her family loves to look down their noses at me, my mother inlaw was shocked when my third son was born and all the indian genes came out.
My first two boys look normal "white" but my angel third boy looks like a spirit.
Very dark eyes and features and platinum blonde hair.
She asked me what racial background are you?
At the time I didn't know, believe me I never knew until about my actual heritage beginning less than two years ago.
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Continuing,
So yeah I didn't mean to post that yet, oh well it came out ok,
So My wife's family hates me, I'm flatly against Christianity, they are big time believers.
I guess I'm like a real onion to them, the more layers we peel back the more they cry.
They at least gave me a shot at trying to fit in, I can give them that much credit.
Too bad I was set in my ways,,
Imagine not getting work because of your race, religion, politics.
Oh yeah, you don't have to imagine it.
In Spirit,
NP
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White privilege, along with racist oppression of people of color, is very real.
Sometimes it may be less useful to talk about Native vs "white" than Native vs non-Native. Just because someone may not pass as white doesn't make them Native.
It's about who your parents and grandparents are, and what Native community claims you.
There are Indigenous Hawaiians who live in Hawaii, but Hawaii itself is not a reservation. Especially for all the non-Natives and newagers who live there.
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In deep respect.
A dictionary is needed on this forum.
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In deep respect.
A dictionary is needed on this forum.
How someone speaks, and what they do and don't understand, tells us a lot about who someone really is.
As this is a working forum for stopping frauds and exploiters, I don't think it's in our best interests to help outsiders to particular communities learn in-group terminology.
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Those who spend time doing what we ask of new members - reading all the pinned threads to get up to speed - usually have no trouble understanding us. It just takes some patience and time.
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Please explain white privelidge, I'm not seeing it.
How do you, because of white skin do you have it better?
Where is your personal contrast for the difference to be examined?
Because I have white privilege, it can be hard for me to see, cause I'm in it. I can take it for granted, I could decide to not examine it, I don't have to think about it. Which are more examples of white privilege. :)
Even if I was poor, visibly disabled, gay, and pagan, I still have the white thing going on for me. I'm not automatically guilty or bad because of this, and I don't necessarily want this, but it exists.
Here are some examples:
I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.
I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.
When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.
I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.
I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.
I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.
I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.
I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.
If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.
Examples above are all direct from here http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html (http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html) , many more ideas there
Instead of "privilege" the word "advantage" could be used. I have an unearned advantage.
My response thus far is for ANY First Nation Person that has reservation privileges to Imagine being without that privilege.
Imagine living on the Earth with nowhere safe to go, that's my life as a descendant of tribal people.
No place to call home Ever. No place to come from no place to go back to.
And to touch on the dictionary subject for a moment,
I guess my question got inflated a bit.
It really comes down to a single word, that being "white"
From my understanding
If you are a full blooded tribal member and have white skin, you are not A Native Person because all indians are Brown?
Did I get that right?
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From my understanding
If you are a full blooded tribal member and have white skin, you are not A Native Person because all indians are Brown?
Did I get that right?
No, you did not get that right.
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My response thus far is for ANY First Nation Person that has reservation privileges to Imagine being without that privilege.
Imagine living on the Earth with nowhere safe to go, that's my life as a descendant of tribal people.
No place to call home Ever. No place to come from no place to go back to.
And to touch on the dictionary subject for a moment,
I guess my question got inflated a bit.
It really comes down to a single word, that being "white"
From my understanding
If you are a full blooded tribal member and have white skin, you are not A Native Person because all indians are Brown?
Did I get that right?
This is ridiculous. People on the reservations are not oppressing you.
Brown people are not oppressing you by having healthy skepticism of strangers.
They have the right to set boundaries and make you earn trust. If you haven't earned trust, that's not their fault.
I am born into white culture in USA, my life is bombarded by cliche'.
White culture calls me a hippie, white trash,
You say people call you "white trash" and that you only recently found out you have distant heritage. If you were raised non-native, as you have said you were, unless you find your relatives and they accept you as a member of the family and community, you're not Native.
This is not the place to complain about how oppressed you feel as a non-Native. If that's what you want from us, I suggest this is not the place to do that.
I also suggest your idea of what it means to be Native is based on idealized fantasy. Lots of people are lonely and looking for community. But you won't find that by claiming Native people are oppressing you just by their very existence. I'm sorry but that's crazy and one of the most entitled things I've seen posted here.
I think you owe all the Native people on this forum an apology.
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My response thus far is for ANY First Nation Person that has reservation privileges to Imagine being without that privilege.
Imagine living on the Earth with nowhere safe to go, that's my life as a descendant of tribal people.
No place to call home Ever. No place to come from no place to go back to.
And to touch on the dictionary subject for a moment,
I guess my question got inflated a bit.
It really comes down to a single word, that being "white"
From my understanding
If you are a full blooded tribal member and have white skin, you are not A Native Person because all indians are Brown?
Did I get that right?
This is ridiculous. People on the reservations are not oppressing you.
Brown people are not oppressing you by having healthy skepticism of strangers.
They have the right to set boundaries and make you earn trust. If you haven't earned trust, that's not their fault.
I am born into white culture in USA, my life is bombarded by cliche'.
White culture calls me a hippie, white trash,
You say people call you "white trash" and that you only recently found out you have distant heritage. If you were raised non-native, as you have said you were, unless you find your relatives and they accept you as a member of the family and community, you're not Native.
This is not the place to complain about how oppressed you feel as a non-Native. If that's what you want from us, I suggest this is not the place to do that.
I also suggest your idea of what it means to be Native is based on idealized fantasy. Lots of people are lonely and looking for community. But you won't find that by claiming Native people are oppressing you just by their very existence. I'm sorry but that's crazy and one of the most entitled things I've seen posted here.
I think you owe all the Native people on this forum an apology.
I feel it's impossible at this time to continue our conversation.
Consider this an apology to Any person who finds whatever I have ever written hurtful.
I'm sorry.
All I've tried to do is understand You the writers on this forum and ask questions, but ive been told to sit down and shut up and listen (read)
I've done that, I have much skepticism myself.
I will go back to my Dead Ones and forget this quasi world of the Internet.
Thanks for the lesson.
You are what you hate.
I don't hate, Do You? Dear Reader.
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As usual this is not going to end well. :o
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I really dont think he was looking for answers ???
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I really dont think he was looking for answers ???
People can't hear when their lips are moving. Also, God-Creator-Allah-Whomever- created us with 2 ears and 1 mouth. I would suggest that means we listen twice as much as we talk.
Roy
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White Privilege is a thing of the past? With respect, as a white person, I strongly disagree.
Recently I spent nearly a month in Cambodia. The economic disparities between Cambodians and ex-pats is truly disgusting. Privilege perpetuates hundreds of miles of sweat shops. It perpetuates the sexual exploitation of young girls – which is very out in the open.
I understood this while in a hotel lobby and 3 white men were taking a young Cambodian prostitute up to their room joking, loudly, “Tonight you get three for the price of one! Lucky you!” If that doesn’t epitomize white male privilege I don’t know what does.
I am lucky that I live in a country where I can leave my husband if he beats me.
These things happen here too … and the majority doesn't happen to white girls. Do bad things hapen to rich white people? Sure.
I have a friend who is Puerto Rican and raised on the Southside of Chicago. He was never taught to read and write beyond a 2nd or 3rd grade level. He works his ass off to feed his family and support his wife who speaks almost no English. He does not/did not have the same opportunities I do/did. Even though I grew up very poor.
Simply being able to write, read, and speak English gives you a level of privilege.
My privilege afforded me the ability to travel and communicate.
I actually had Cambodians appologize TO ME if they did not understand me in english?! I WAS IN THEIR COUNTRY! This is white privilage. People come to this country and we say, "just learn English."
Should I feel guilty for something I have no control over? No.
Should I feel superior? No.
Should I feel slighted because somebody points out the obvious? No.
Should I approach people with an open awareness that we don’t all come from the same place? I think so. I think the key is letting go of assumptions, I think in that you have a good point.
Does that mean “special treatment.” No. But I do think it should mean an attempt to understand and bridge gaps between all people in society.
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I read a little more -
"My response thus far is for ANY First Nation Person that has reservation privileges to Imagine being without that privilege.
Imagine living on the Earth with nowhere safe to go, that's my life as a descendant of tribal people.
No place to call home Ever. No place to come from no place to go back to."
This is a stunner.
So being forced off ones land, families split up, relocated, forced to live with other groups and maybe in a completely new environment, stripped of your language, religion, and children is a privilege?
Have you been to a reservation? They are not all some Mecca of opulence and equal opportunity.
I am very confused.
I am white and I have a very strong sense of “home.” I find it in nature. I think we can all find it in nature. We are all of this earth. I find it with my friends. I find it when I sit in my kayak going down a river. I find it on my horse running through the mountains. Do I own it? No. But I belong. I have a relationship with it.
I hope you find a place in yourself to call home. I really do.
But you won’t find it blaming other people.