NAFPS Forum
General => Member Introductions => Topic started by: Mizheekay on October 14, 2009, 12:43:05 am
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Well though......
It's me -- Mizheekay (Turtle) OR: "Schildkröte" ! Haaaa - you got it: I'm of german descent (yet, I guess).
I surely could present myself in length here.. but it is my believe that a 'few things' deserve to remain private ;D
But please accept that I share some thoughts about this forum, it's members and / or topics....
in general though !!?
Again... I came across of topics // topic's content, named (in example !) ""European-s"" ~
""Germans"" etc. !
What the heck is "your" image (of Europe / Germany / Netherland / etc) ??
As I mentioned in a reply = There is (in THIS context) NO "Europe" ~ no "Germany" !!!!!
There ARE (might be !!) real STRANGE individuals with mentioned nationality....
but hey -- you are'nt that 'blond' - don't you ??
(( yes... it IS similar to ""Indians""... it IS similar to ""all Indians living in Teepees - dancing all day long and smoking the *Peace-Pipe*"" ))
You got it ????
Just NAME a person.. and for any 'understanding's sake'.. add the country....
but DO NOT BLAME all relatives (nation-wise) in general !
Yes -- there's a great "attraction"..... easy to understand when you educate yourself !
- former "Europe" must be seen as many (unlikely) Tribes..
- former "Germany" (as a well understood example ;) ) must be known as 'many Tribes' {yes: unlikely}
- It IS PROVEN -by 'scientists'- that there were 'Sweat-Lodges' in this area (i.e.: some 14,000 years back) - it IS PROVEN that our 'Ancestors' were intimate to smoke Pipes // used burned herbs for 'spiritual / ceremonial' benefit or healing - it IS PROVEN that the CIRCLE.. even the ( a ) circle of STONES.. was used and understood LONG before one could spell 'Germany'... long before one could spell Dakota, Crow, etc. !!
- you may understand... that -northern- Europe "communicate" with northern 'America' (Earth-wise)... you may get an image of *similar* --so called-- Life-Conditions.... don't you ? Again: educate yourself !!
- You may (( I only guess ! )) have an idea about CREATOR's "schedule" for *humans* ?? So please.... don't make yourself an idiot ! True wisdom appear BEHIND -selfcreated- walls.... wether they are physical -- or mind guided ! Your choice - huh ????
This shared.... I encourage you...
to allow "strangers".... to allow "me" ( ! ) to become 'accepted' --
within your own choosen abilities..
There's nothing wrong --- unless you name it ((...with YOUR name !! ))
::)
Therefore.....
BLESSINGS BE ( !! )
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and hey... just to ADD this =
our 'favorite' fraud / fake **Firecracker** (William Jervis, aka....) IS NOT German...
while nobody know if he's real at all... but probably of IRISH // whatever [claimed: Cherokee] descent.
I understand confusion after he turned to express himself more in german // on -german- websites //
penetrate-d [german] forums, social networks, groups.... (( even though I understand why SOOO many (germans) feel attracted to this 'clown' - yet in majority women beyond 40.. {{ ouch - I know that I stepped on dangerous field.... apologies though.... and respect granted !!!! }} ))
as he's well advised to avoid any "en-us" attention at PRESENT time !!!!
Therefore again: educate yourself....and make SURE... that you post // share in an APPROPRIATE way !!!
Should'nt be THAT difficult ??
O K =?? Thanks !! ;)
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No sharing no accpetence
the answer is no
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I understand English is not your first language, but it's very hard to understand you.
Don't use parentheses or brackets. No () or {} or []. Don't use lines of dots. No ....
In general don't use anything but letters and the period. Then maybe we can understand you.
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We just got ourselves another Euro nuager trying to rewrite history, to define what is and isn't indigenous, and presenting us with the well-known 'share! - or else...'.
I'll try to explain what s/he says:
Yes -- there's a great "attraction"..... easy to understand when you educate yourself !
This should read: „There are thousands of Euros attracted to ndn ways as we define them – and if you just did a bit of thinking and reading *our* definitions, you'd easily see why this is so, and why it is okay for us. So shut your stupid ndn faces, willya.“
former "Europe" must be seen as many (unlikely) Tribes..
This should read: „Europe is a mix of many different tribes.“
(Note to Mizheekay: 'unlikely' means 'unwahrscheinlich', so no English speaking person can make heads or tails out of your comment.)
former "Germany" (as a well understood example ) must be known as 'many Tribes' {yes: unlikely}
This should read: „ 'Germany' must be seen as many tribes which again differ from each other.“
It IS PROVEN -by 'scientists'- that there were 'Sweat-Lodges' in this area (i.e.: some 14,000 years back)
This should read: „I don't know my behind from a hole in the ground re early European history, but that doesn't stop me from giving you lots of B.S. on the issue.“
14,000 years ago, there were no 'Germans' in Europe, no Indo-European peoples, so whoever may or may not have done sweatlodges here – it weren't the peoples living in Europe nowadays, and the respective traditions have been dead since thousands of years. As far as I read on early European history, no remains of paleolithic sweatlodges have been found.
Perhaps we should take due note that Mizheekay writes 'scientists', not scientists. Our friend M is simply creating fake history, like others have done before.
it IS PROVEN that our 'Ancestors' were intimate to smoke Pipes // used burned herbs for 'spiritual / ceremonial' benefit or healing - it IS PROVEN that the CIRCLE.. even the ( a ) circle of STONES.. was used and understood LONG before one could spell 'Germany'... long before one could spell Dakota, Crow, etc. !!
This should read: „*We* did all your sacred ceremonies long before you did, so we're perfectly entitled to do it today, and you should just shut your ndn faces. Better get it: me boss – you dirtrag. Oh, and when I say „it's proven“, of course this is enough, no need to give any citations.“
We should also notice the implication of what s/he says: if sweats, pipes, medicine circles etc were in use in Europe 14,000 years ago, then this was at a point of time before ndns allegedly walked across Bering Strait, so that these become Euro traditions in the first place in hir mind.
you may understand... that -northern- Europe "communicate" with northern 'America' (Earth-wise)... you may get an image of *similar* --so called-- Life-Conditions.... don't you ? Again: educate yourself !!
This should read: „I now give you some nuage garbage – living conditions in Northern Europe and Northern America were very similar, so of course peoples developed the same ways of life, from A to Z. You stupid lot just need to read real books, that is, what I define as real books, so that you can see what is right for you.“
You may (( I only guess ! )) have an idea about CREATOR's "schedule" for *humans* ?? So please.... don't make yourself an idiot ! True wisdom appear BEHIND -selfcreated- walls.... wether they are physical -- or mind guided ! Your choice - huh
This should read: „You insolent lot mean to tell me you know what creator had in mind for you?! This is my job as a white Euro to tell you.“
This shared.... I encourage you...to allow "strangers".... to allow "me" ( ! ) to become 'accepted' – within your own choosen abilities..
This should read: „That being said – now you're expected to allow us – and me in particular – to take your spirituality and do with it as we please. You may be too daft to see I'm right, but then again you chose to be daft. Simply shut your ndn faces.“
our 'favorite' fraud / fake **Firecracker** (William Jervis, aka....) IS NOT German...
while nobody know if he's real at all... but probably of IRISH // whatever [claimed: Cherokee] descent.
@Mizheekay, nobody here ever thought for one second that Jervis was German. I don't know where you got this idea from. Perhaps you got this mixed up with the German forum you're frequenting where one person tirelessly argues Jervis was a) enrolled, b) a legit medicine man, c) well-respected in ndn country.
Therefore again: educate yourself....and make SURE... that you post // share in an APPROPRIATE way !!!
Should'nt be THAT difficult ??
This should read: „Once again: you're stupid, but still you should post in accordance with my view of the world. If you refuse, I'll be miffed. As I said before: me boss – you dirtrag.“
@Mizheekay: most of the board members have had their share of encounters with Euro racism and white superiority, but your comments happen to be a rare gem. Perhaps this is due to your lack of fluency in English – and then again, perhaps this lack of fluency caused your being far more outspoken than in your comments in the German language forum.
It is more than insolent to join a board whose members are well educated, many of them hold university degrees, and tell them to educate themselves. Since the persons here are predominantly ndn and of ndn descent, this also happens to be an utterly racist approach. We do see people coming into this forum with a similar line of argumentation, but they are far and few between.
Stick to your own words, please: „Educate yourself, and make SURE you post in an appropriate way. Shouldn't be all that difficult.“
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Thank you Ingeborg!
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Ingborg, thank you. Mizheekay. There are many on here who are not only well educated with advanced degrees but who are also Elders within their own cultures. These cultures go back thousands of years they do know from whence they speak. To put it bluntly we do not take kindly to some European affecting an attitude. Learn respect. "LittleOldMan"
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Thank you for your excellent translation, Ingeborg.
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Thank you, Ingeborg! I loved it!
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Thank you all for taking the time here.
You're right: I do not speak (write) english fluently and I apologize for causing misunderstanding and/or misinterpretation.
I also appreciate educateindian's advise !
Nevertheless - Ingeborg's words ARE'NT a translation,
they show HER arrogant -own- interpretation (unasked) and she added a lot of yet wrong stuff, I have'nt said - even not thought !
Therefore I would like to see that someone remind Ingeborg to show respect !
Again: it is her story - not mine !!
@ Ingeborg = please be careful WHAT you are saying, implying though !!!!
Neither you met me in person nor have we communicated on a more personal level.
Thank you
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Therefore I would like to see that someone remind Ingeborg to show respect !
In the time I've been participating on this forum, Ingeborg has been very respectful. You could learn a lot from her example. Your words here have not been respectful. No one needs to know you in person to read what you are saying, and evaluate your words on their own merit.
So I am reminding you: Show some respect or I suspect you'll be shown the door.
ETA: Isn't "Mizheekay" Anishinaabemowin? If you are German, why are you using an Anishinaabemowin name?
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You're right: I do not speak (write) english fluently and I apologize for causing misunderstanding and/or misinterpretation.
I also appreciate educateindian's advise !
Nevertheless - Ingeborg's words ARE'NT a translation,
they show HER arrogant -own- interpretation (unasked) and she added a lot of yet wrong stuff, I have'nt said - even not thought !
Therefore I would like to see that someone remind Ingeborg to show respect !
Again: it is her story - not mine !!
Oh no, the question must be: What you want show with YOUR arrogance here?
Your language is not powerful enough to understand your sentences - but grotesque words against Ingeborg here. Such a thing is not only impertinent, no, it's stupid!!!
German because of M´s language problems:
Nein, die Frage muss vielmehr lauten: Welche Arroganz wollen Sie hier aufzeigen?
Der Sprache nicht mächtig - aber hier groteske Worte gegen Ingeborg posten. So etwas ist nicht nur unverschämt, nein es ist dumm!!!!
@ Ingeborg = please be careful WHAT you are saying, implying though !!!!
Neither you met me in person nor have we communicated on a more personal level.
What are you driving at?
If your intention is only offensive attacks too individual members of NAFPS who detect a lot of fraudster - then please go ahead and jump in the lake!
German because of M´s language problems:
Worauf wollen Sie hinaus?
Wenn Sie nur hier sind um beleidigende Angriffe auf einzelne Forenmitglieder auszuüben, weil dieses NAFPS Forum gnadenlos und namentlich Betrüger aufdeckt und benennt - dann gehen sie bitte wieder dahin wo der Pfeffer wächst!
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applause !
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so what does this mean anyway?
Mizheekay you want to know us or you don't want to know us?
You think you have some kind of rights?
well not in Indian country
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Actually, I thought Ingeborg's answer was right on, though a bit, shall we say, to the point?
However, the Romans had communal baths, similar to sweats, perhaps, for social purposes. Well, maybe to cleanse their bodies, too, more like a club to socialize, nothing like the sweat lodge concept. And the Finns had their saunas. Anyone who has lived in the old Butte, Montana, will remember those. Ancient Europe also had tribal entities, and to give the new lady the doubt, perhaps she is confusing ours with those?
Even so, I, too felt she put her words rudely.
Mizheekay, I think you came off as a rude new ager, a typical Euro who has the idea we are savages.
We are not.
I hope I misread you.
My mother came from Zwichau, my father Native.
I cannot remember when my mother would speak so to anyone as you have done.
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Yes, my answer was rather to the point, and for several reasons. I've seen Mizheekay in a German forum where from their posts it became clear that they are a nuager, and do not like NAFPS (without elaborating re the reasons), but this is not what set me off.
Mizheekay came here with demands to be accepted to ndn spirituality, and demanded that people share with her/him. We do see this often enough. But this time it was combined with a repeated appeal to NAFPS members to educate themselves, and with repeated implications they of course know far better... It makes me cringe when white persons come along here in this way, and it makes me furious to see people acting out their white priviledge in such an insolent way.
And you are quite right: a behaviour like Mizheekay's is considered rude here in Germany, too. We're quite normal people and do know the concept of politeness like all other nations in the world, and not the 3d Reich imitation of the superior human many films portray us as – even if some of us apparently do enter places with no manners to speak of, behaving like wasicu.
What also makes me short-tempered are people attempting to rewrite history to meet their own ideas and to make this distorted version of history the basis for the demands following. True, some 2,000 years ago, the Romans had baths, steam baths etc. But Mizheekay spoke about peoples living in Europe some 40,000 years ago. First of all, 40,000 years ago, homo sapiens sapiens only *began* to move into Europe, and the migratory movement began in the south of the continent. The north, where Mizheekay happens to live (in the German forum s/he mentioned s/he lives in the North of Germany), was not to be populated by HSS for thousands of years then, as it was still covered by ice. So whoever lived in Europe in the paleolithic era, especially in Northern Europe where settlement of HSS began much later, was no ancestor of today's population. The Indo-European imigrants in Europe were but the last wave(s) of migration here. Who lived here before the Indo-European peoples arrived, is similarly unknown – there are no names for these peoples, the languages they spoke are unknown, their customs are widely unknown. As most probably the early paleolithic populations of Europe did not get wiped out by later migrational waves but mixed with them, it is possible that we have inherited some of their gene pool – culturally, and linguistically, we are something quite different.
So perhaps the first paleolithic HSS Europeans did know sweatlodges, but as far as I read prehistory, it is not established they did. Mizheekay's claim that scientists proved this is rewriting history, perhaps from nuage books. Whether the Indo-Europeans knew sweatlodges is also not certain – the Finns know them, and although today's Finnish population does not differ genetically from the rest of the Europeans, they speak a non-Indo-European language which is related to Estonian, and Hungarian, and then there is a branch of this family with some more languages in Northern Russia, the Ugric languages.
We had another person, a Euro-American, joining NAFPS before who claimed she was an indigenous European and her ancestors were a nation that lived in Europe 40,000 years ago; she also tolerates misinterpretations of her indigenous status as being Native American and does not correct them.
It is true that, going back far enough in the history of mankind, the ancestors of all of us lived as tribes. However, this does not justify anybody coming here and taking this for a pretence to *demand* that ndn people share their spirituality since they somehow feel, or rather insist they are tribal people, too. This is simply – pardon my French – annoying B.S. It also happens to be racist, as it implies that Euros are also the 'better' tribal people and as our ancestors got oblivious over the times and abandoned their tribal ways, they want to make up for that by demands to be initiated to ndn culture (as they also do not care about the fact there is no generic ndn culture but many of them).
I consider racism as expressed by Mizheekay of the worse sort, as it (falsely) rejects relations to the outright redneck or Nazi bonehead, but hides behind the mask of social acceptance and a false learnedness.
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I've been reading this thread with interest. It's fascinating to me that someone would claim such a thing. Even if 40,000 years ago there were 'tribes' in Europe, um.. common sense states they are not NA NDN. It's a ridiculous claim. It never ceases to amaze me the stupidity of some. My own ancestors come from somewhere in Russia, but we have a cold trail after my grandmother and grandfather, met/worked in Lithuania. However, I have the intelligence to know that is on another continent and country and has nothing to do with North America Anything.
Reading a thread such as this has truly opened my eyes to the stupidity and annoyance the NA NDN has to endure. I feel for you..
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I consider racism as expressed by Mizheekay of the worse sort, as it (falsely) rejects relations to the outright redneck or Nazi bonehead, but hides behind the mask of social acceptance and a false learnedness.
I agree. It's easy for people to recognize and dismiss the cross-burners and screaming Nazis. The type of racism that hides behind false information and an air of erudition is insidious and harder to fight. Thankfully, this poster didn't pull it off well; their information was so blatantly wrong and ridiculous, their arguments and demands all too familiar, and their style of communication inept. And the nerve to call themselves by a Native American name... Disgusting.
My own ancestors come from somewhere in Russia, but we have a cold trail after my grandmother and grandfather, met/worked in Lithuania. However, I have the intelligence to know that is on another continent and country and has nothing to do with North America Anything.
There is actually a great deal of surviving Lithuanian earth-based religion. They still have their mythology, songs, customs, and some ceremonies for the spirits and seasons. I don't know if Lithuanians have sauna, but the Latvians have surviving sauna ceremonies. The pre-Christian beliefs, stories and surviving rituals of the Latvians have much in common with those of the Lithuanians. The village where one of my family members is from still has Solstice bonfire ceremonies with toasts to the gods. Some of the rituals are protected by the police, "in case any puritans try to interfere."
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There is actually a great deal of surviving Lithuanian earth-based religion. They still have their mythology, songs, customs, and some ceremonies for the spirits and seasons. I don't know if Lithuanians have sauna, but the Latvians have surviving sauna ceremonies. The pre-Christian beliefs, stories and surviving rituals of the Latvians have much in common with those of the Lithuanians. The village where one of my family members is from still has Solstice bonfire ceremonies with toasts to the gods. Some of the rituals are protected by the police, "in case any puritans try to interfere."
That's amazing. I am thinking I would like to learn more on where my 'dna' has come from.... I do not know enough about my grandparent's history to track this, but perhaps at some point I will be able to hire someone to help me find ancestry records in Russia. We believe my grandfather's family is Russian. And my grandmothers Lithuanian, but we really don't know. They came to America in the early 1900's.
Well, don't want to hijack.. but thank you for telling me this. :)
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That's amazing. I am thinking I would like to learn more on where my 'dna' has come from.... I do not know enough about my grandparent's history to track this, but perhaps at some point I will be able to hire someone to help me find ancestry records in Russia. We believe my grandfather's family is Russian. And my grandmothers Lithuanian, but we really don't know. They came to America in the early 1900's.
Well, don't want to hijack.. but thank you for telling me this. :)
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If you are near a Mormon Genealogical Library, or even near a stake center, they have an amazing bank of genealogy knowledge. You do not need to be Mormon to use it.
Their information is from world wide.
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Yes, searched that. The only info that they had were deceased relatives that I already knew about, but nothing further than their dates of death. A person on my work forum stepped in and she did amazing thing, getting the immigration papers of my grandparents. However, I don't know how to go about searching Russia or Lithuania's birth records to trace back to my great grandparents. Anyway, it's really not feasible that .. well, except for just having the knowledge of my family tree.. it's not feasible I would have anything more than that.
This is where I am today, and where/who I came from, I cannot go back there. The info would be interesting though.
Thanks.