NAFPS Forum

General => Frauds => Topic started by: SouthwestSkeptic on January 31, 2008, 04:16:00 am

Title: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: SouthwestSkeptic on January 31, 2008, 04:16:00 am
[Admin Note:  NAFPS has been catching flack from the person discussed in this thread. She even put forth a claim of copyright infringement (the easiest way to frighten hosting companies). Thus I have removed all references to the offending "items" from the thread below - not because the claim had any validity, but rather to pacify the web host. Thanks for understanding if this affects one of your posts.]


I would like to know if anyone has ever investigated a person going only by the first name Amylee and pronouncing it (Amma-lee).

Sometimes she also refers to herself as “SheWho-Catches-the-Rainbows??? or
“Born and Guided to Honor the Harmony Between the Light & Shadow???
She is the owner of Her Native Roots Herbals.

Here’s her website:

http://www.medwom.com

She claims that everyone needs her special herbs to counteract all the toxic chemicals that are in the environment and claims that her potions strengthen your energy field.

In one of her pamphlets she states “Amylee is the last living Iroquis medicine woman of her maternal lineage of medicine womyn. Since she is the last one she asked and got permission from the Iroquois tribal elders to teach Iroquois medicine knowledge to non Iroquois womyn???

She claims to provide customers with “Ceremonially prepared??? herbs that will give them amazing long life by detoxifying their kidney, bladder, colon, lungs liver and skin.  She also offers an anti-plague potion.  She does workshops that scare people into believing that an world-wide mysterious disease is about to wipe out the human race and only she has the sacred Native American cure for it.  It looks suspiciously like fear-mongering to me.

In the past she has claimed to be Seneca, Mohawk and Iroquois, but these days she’s going with Haudensaunee.

She’s wildly popular with lesbian-feminists and frequently promotes herself as a medicine woman who is the 'last in her lineage??? of Iroquois Medicine Women' and sometimes claims to be of the Wolf Clan.  Part of her rituals involve the women gathering around a drum naked and howling like wolves.

She goes around the country teaching women how to be shamans and charges money for being their Spiritual Life Coach. 

She is the co-author of several books which include some known frauds.

"Menopause with Science and Soul" by Dr. Judith Boice which offers 'the complete Body, Mind,& Spirit Guide to Menopause.'  One of the other contributors of this book are Clarissa Pinkola Estes ("Women who run with the Wolves") and Vickie Noble ("Motherpeace Tarot"). (Strange bedfellows ey?)

She teaches a course on feminist spirituality at Kent State University where she promotes something called the Sisterhood of the Shields where you basically pay her for the opportunity to “birth??? a drum or some other sacred object that you play in a full moon drumming ritual that you also pay to attend. She also claims to be the founder of the American Indian Rights Association there.

Some of the ludicrous goods and services that she offers are:

vibrating metal ovals with healing powers http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601088&sid=apWFSf3.vLvU&refer=muse

unique and guaranteed Intuitive Consultations via telephone
http://www.intuitives.org/page27.html

She has been quoted as an authority on Native American Spirituality in several books and journals.

KRCL Radio did a documentary in 1993 where she claimed to be an Iroquois Medicine woman talked about the planetary alignment during the Harmonic Convergence which would be responsible for bringing in the female principle for the next 900 years.
http://www.kopn.org/reel2reel/pdf/catalogue.pdf

She must be an avid Art Bell listener because she claims to be working on a Native American cure for bird flu.
 http://briansprediction.com/dd/2967.htm
On Hunbatz Men’s website she is promoted as a Medicine Woman of the Haudensaunee - Iroquois.  (Men has been pretty thoroughly exposed as a fraud by Mayan Anthropologist Quetzel Castaneda)
 http://www.cosmicmysteries.com/

Her contact information is given as:
AmyLee (330) 343-0124 (box 3).
 Native American Indian Resource Center, Inc.
PO Box 327
 (888) 275-3772
Native American Indian Resource Center, Inc
PO Box 668                                                     
Tuscarawas, OH 44682
Email: Answers@HerNativeRoots.com

I can’t find any documentation that she actually teachers at Kent State.  I did find the Non-Profit she’s associated with.  Their funding is $100K!  It looks like a 501 C3 fraud to me.  They claim that they need to generate a larger sum of money to acquire the adjoining forest acreage to further protect our private nature preserve.  So what’s a Seneca/Iroquois/Mohawk doing in Ohio?
http://www.gobignetwork.com/profiles/AmyLee-ofHawkHollow.aspx
I’m even more suspicious that this non-profit is being used to advertise her telephone intuitive consulting service here:
http://www.intuitives.org/page47a.html

Does anybody know how to contact the Iroquois to see what they think of their heap big medicine womon(sic)?

Rose
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Defend the Sacred on January 31, 2008, 04:53:39 am
I thought we had a thread on her, but a search only turned up mentions in posts about other people. She used to teach at Sun Bear's Medicine Wheel Gatherings in the eighties, and came up with that whole "Sisterhood of the Shields" thing after it was in a Lynn Andrews book, iirc. I spoke with some women who had asked her about it, and it sounded like that's what she was basing it on (the Andrews fiction).

There's a bit of info on her at the Wall of Shame site: http://shameons.bravepages.com/

Here are the mentions I found in other threads:

Birdwoman began her spiritual path in 1969 after reading Don Juan, A Yaqui Way of Knowledge. She followed her spiritual path through nature based Native American studies, until in 1986, when she met Amylee, of Tippecanoe, Ohio, last granddaughter in a lineage of Iroquois Medicine Women. Birdwoman is an original Shield Sister, a rainbow coalition of women from around the world, who ceremony around the moon cycles and come together roughly once a year in Ceremony under Amylee’s teachings. Birdwoman is also a member of the Council of Shield Sisters.

They do mention studying with North American Pa'Ris'Ha, a Cherokee Elder.; Eagle Man, Oglala Sioux Elder; and Amylee, a Medicine Woman of the Oglala Sioux.

The "rainbow coalition of women from around the world", iirc, was a bunch of white, American women who paid money to join her group. If I'm remembering this correctly, a friend of mine told me that Amylee invited a white man she barely knew, who had no connection to any indigenous culture, to run the local group, and the only criteria for membership seemed to be financial.

My friend also thought Amylee was German, but I don't have any proof of that; it may have just been my friend's impression of her. I did note that she was rather young to be claiming to be an elder.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: educatedindian on February 01, 2008, 03:43:48 pm
The RRC are the main ones who've taken her on. I'm amazed we haven't been asked about her before. A pretty ugly history.

-----

http://www.geocities.com/redroadcollective/NewsletterS93.html
"AMYLEE: (Real name unknown)
c/o Native American Indian Resource Center Inc.
Hawk Hollow Private Nature Reserve
Tippecanoe, OH 44699-9612

This individual has claimed to be Mohawk, Native Hawaiian, Iroquois and Ojibwa to several different members of the collective. She is most likely running a huge pyramid scam. Currently, she is operating an international, computerized scam based on the Indulgence system of the Middle Ages. Followers are asked to send her money so that she can personnally ask the creator for their 'intentions.' She charges outrageous sums for eager White Lesbians to visit her property and 'birth a drum.' Just like the 'intentions', once the drum is 'birthed', more and more money must be spent in order to birth more and more drums. Followers are promised that they will attain success and power, if they just spend enough money.

This group is the most like a cult that we have encountered. Members must accept the teachings without question. Anyone who displays any reticence is immediately confronted by the "wolf pack" until they become true believers again. Concerned friends or family members who question Amylee's right to teach are dealt with severely. The follower is strongly pressured to break all ties with any skeptics. Some members create over 1000 shields at a cost of $300.00 - $400.00 each. Women suffering from alcoholism are told that they must practice Amylee's version of 'Iroquois spirituality' (taught mainly in Michigan and Ohio). She justifies this saying that because the women were born in America, they should practice Native American Spirituality. It doesn't seem to be a problem for her that these women were not born in Iroquois territory, however. As long as the check/Mastercard clears, she is happy to sell them the cure for alcoholism. As additional reinforcement, her followers are stongly discouraged from examing their European roots.

Amylee frequenly insults or proper hereditary elders at her gathering. She states that they are "greedy, ignorant and racist for not 'sharing' their spirituality. She often ends her made up 'rituals' by singing"

-----

What they found on another forum.

-----

http://forum.americanindiantribe.com/viewtopic.php?t=6077&start=0
WanderingNative
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 3661
Location: Oklahoma, Washington DC, Philadelphia
 Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:05 pm   
 
Amylee?

Where have I heard that name somewhere before? Oh yeah, In association with Kent State I believe someone once said. Very interesting.

Oh yeah, now I remember where I've heard of her before:

Here's a few for you.

Try this google search: Amylee Medicine Woman

Quote:

Amylee was born 1952, in Ohio. She studied both at State University of New York (1970-1980) and Kent State University (1970-1980), concurrently. She is the director of Indian Organizations, and donates and devotes time to Native and nature projects including a drug and crime rehabilitation facility for recovering Indian youth. She is the founder and director of American Indian Rights Association at Kent University. 


http://www.hernativeroots.com


Quote:
Amy Lee, Iroquois elder, medicine woman and shield builder, has greatly influenced her subject matter. Veronica has been a member of Amy Lee's spiritual group for women since 1991.


http://www.cosmicmysteries.com/
Quote:
Patricia Morris Cardona, MS, APRN, BC, graduated from the University of Michigan with a Masters Degree in Psychiatric Mental Health Nursing and a Clinical Specialist Certification as a therapist. Patricia studied alternative healing and spirituality with many teachers and sacred sites in the United States, Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, Peru, England and Ireland in order to enhance her natural abilities, which she uses to assist clients with their healing and growth. Patricia has studied with the following spiritual teachers: Swami Chetananda, a Kundalini Master; Chunyi Lin, A Qigong Master; Michael Silverman, a Heart/Mind Master; Hunbatz Men, a Mayan Elder Shaman; Don Alejandro, a Guatemalan, Mayan Elder; Master Nazul, a Mayan Elder; Anna Marie Vergara, a Mayan Fire Priestess; Willaru Huayta, a Peruvian Elder; Pa'Ris'Ha, a Cherokee Elder.; Eagle Man, Oglala Sioux Elder; and AmyLee, a Medicine Woman of the Haudensaunee - Iroquois . 


Quote:
She sells Lakota Sweat Lodges and Medicine CardsJust like Amylee, she claims to be a member of the "Wolf Clan teaching lodge" (this is a big warning sign) She claims her stories were passed down by two Kiowa grandmothers: Cisi Laughing Crow and Berta Broken Bow. She assigns colors to the moons (i.e.) "Gives Praise Moon" gets the color purple. Strangely enough, she has created a twelve month moon cycle based on the Julian calender and is completely oblivious to the basic fact that tribal people realize that there are thirteen lunar months. She also promotes what she calls the twelve cycles of truth which are supposed to be Seneca teachings. She claims that the thirteen crystal skulls made popular by Art Bell listeners are part of traditional Native American teachings. She tells the reader to use animal bones to create Kachina dolls and ceremonial bone masks. ...



http://forum.americanindiantribe.com/viewtopic.php?p=48704&sid=429611bf71a25a97ca16427a2d9e5ae0
Quote:
Hey, you volunteer wasn't the famous AmyLee. was it, G?
She heap big Medicine Woman of the Iroquois Tribe, ya know.


http://www.intuitives.org/page37.html
Quote:
AmyLee (330) 343-0124 (box 3)
Native American Indian Resource Center, Inc. Email
PO Box 327 Website
Pataskala, OH 43062

Since 1978, Medicine Woman AmyLee has presented at Spiritualist Camps, Churches, Metaphysical bookstores, and Retreats.
AmyLee now offers incisive, unique and guaranteed Intuitive Consultations via telephone
 

http://www.emsah.uq.edu.au/awsr/awsa/cwsa.html
Quote:
The technology theme influenced the kinds of panels offered, with the plenary on Thursday reflecting the NWSA President, Annette van Dyke's interest in ecofeminsm. She teaches a course on feminist spirituality. The session was titled 'Life itself'. AmyLee, 'an Aboriginal American of Iroquois descent', 'last in her lineage of Medicine Women', teaches in Native American studies at Kent State University. She described the NWSA programme document as 'powerful', saying 'I stand in awe of each of you', 'all those representing their own facet of the crystal of truth'. There is 'so much power in this room that we could keep mountains from being moved unless they want to be moved'. She then discussed the matriarchy into which she was born, 'the great law of peace' which is her government and country.

http://laughingwomyn.com/id29.html
Quote:
Laughing Womyn Ashonosheni, PhD, CPIC
I've developed my natural healing gifts and intuitive skills by learning one-on-one and in small, private classes from a variety of Native Elders, Medicine Women & Men, Bodyworkers, Healers, and Spiritual Leaders.

Some of my teachers:
Susan Webb
Su Bibik
AmyLee 
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: educatedindian on February 01, 2008, 03:45:49 pm
From the same link, apparently she was laughed off of Maury Povich.

-----

nideezhi
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 237
Location: SW
 Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:47 pm   
 
followed the links from this page...http://www.hernativeroots.com

American Indian Sensual Enhancement Medicine Woman, AmyLee, left Maury Povich red and speechless, and his audience rolling in the aisles, when she shared Native American Indian "aphrodisiacs" at his invitation.

American Indian Sensual Enhancement

"We are designed to be sensual human beings, sexual if we so want, for our entire lives. Every culture and era have their taboos about who can do what and when and with whom and where. Thankfully, my people have "opted out" of that ongoing species debate. There are dozens of substances, natural and not, which can enhance the body's sensual receptivity, perception and satisfaction. The two categories of natural substances which my tradition celebrates as "aphrodisiacs" are (1)herbal "toys" which provide immediate stimulation and (2)herbal "power tools" which promote increased overall vitality. The toys are fun, but then we grow up - and have to face, like my Ancestor Trackers, that any dysfunction of any bodily system, is connected to another and another - and that tracking back to the source is the only intelligent way to re-balance all the other systems! And the bonus is - a healthy libido!
The Toy - Her Native Roots Deep Heat Oil - when experimented with by over 100 women, was demonstrated to enhance their sexual experience. They started with ONE DROP of Deep Heat, added to 10 DROPS of a neutral organic oil such as OLIVE. They applied it to a moderately sensitive area such as inner arm or neck or abdomen. Each woman was responsible for using her own body-wisdom and adding drops of Deep Heat until the warmth became pleasureable. They them repeated the experiment on their labia and clitoris. Each to her own - for some, one drop was plenty while others increased the Deep Heat over time. Their partners reported an increase in pleasureable sensations, and even stamina, as well. It works by increasing the bood flow to the area of contact.This increase in circulation is expereienced as heat, and if that heat is concentrated in one locale, the alternating hot/cool blood flow to and from surrounding areas intensifies the sensations. Hot toy!
As fun as herbal toys are - they are comparable to toy cars and are not the real thing - which would you rather drive! Herbal Power Tools which re-balance the distressed systems of the body co-create long-lasting satisfaction on all levels! If one's libido is off - a toy might provide a quick buzzz, but that missing libido is a sign - urging us to track it back to its source.... Fatigue? True Food gets nutrients into the bloodstream in 15 minutes! Body pain - Non-Narcotic Pain Relief Formula works on all types of pain! Digestion woes - Digestion Aid re-balances that system. Constipated? Colon Cleanse will take care of it! Hormones moaning? Female Re-Balancing Formula or Male Prostate Plus stands ready to assist. And HER NATIVE ROOTS SENSUAL ENHANCEMENT FORMULA provides herbal nutrients to flood the body where a deficiency has impaired sexual function. When the body is fed nutrition is can actually usse, to keep things running, to renew and replace dying cells, to remove those toxic by-products, then that body, back in balance, is bound to feel good! And a body that feels good, feels like touching and being touched!!"
* Neither the FDA nor AmyLee have evaluated eachother...it's probably better that way. It's YOUR Life, YOUR Health, YOUR Body !
Handle with Care!
*Deep Heat Oil and all other herbal products mentioned may be viewed on this website under "Our Products.". Please take advantage of our extensive data-base to research the herbs in our formulae, to view their color photos and monographs, to cross- reference for any possible drug/supplement interactions. Knowledge -now THAT's the SUPREME POWER TOOL!
 
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: educatedindian on February 01, 2008, 03:49:11 pm
Looks like Trish wrote up a warning on her that still gets reposted.

-----
http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/09/29/the-spiritual-sampler-platter/

The ‘Crystal Skulls’ ‘Original Clan Mothers’ and ‘Shields’ scams are traceable back to Lyn V. Andrews (the Beverly Hills Shaman/Witch) who has no ties whatsoever to the Native American community, and her ‘Sisterhood of the Shields’ scam which she popularized through her books. Shortly after Andrew’s books became popular, an individual calling herself “Amylee??? created a pyramid scam around it in the late 80’s. She claimed membership in the Iroquois wolf clan and started charging women $300.00 for the privilege of “birthing??? a shield. Grandmother Twylah showed up shortly after this and incorporated the sheilds scam into her “teachings???. She and Mary Elizabeth Thunder are both involved in promoting the crystal skull teachings.

http://users.pandora.be/gohiyuhi/articles/art00070.htm
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: dabosijigwokush on February 04, 2008, 02:22:08 am
IF THERE FUNDING IS 100K?
then this applys some one needs to report them in that state

NATIVE AMERICAN INDIAN RESOURCE CENTER INC
Hawk Hollow Private Nature Preserve
Tippecanoe, OH 44699   

 
 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GENERAL INFORMATION

This organization is a 501(c)(3) Public Charity .
This organization is not required to file an annual return with the IRS because its income is less than $25,000.
Contributions are deductible, as provided by law.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: SouthwestSkeptic on February 28, 2008, 04:20:50 am
I got a list of Mohawk/Seneca tribal leaders and wrote/emailed them.

The first response I recieved was from Chief Paul Spicer
He gave me permission to post his response to my inquiries:

Ms. Garcia,
 
The person described in your email is not a member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe of Oklahoma and I doubt seriously if she is a member of any Iroquois tribe. It is completely contrary to our ways to accept any form of payment for traditional medicine or prayer. I am wolf clan by birth (the only way you become a member of a clan) and highly offended that someone could claim to initiate anyone into one of our clans, ESPECIALLY if they were to charge for such a thing. The practices you describe her performing are laughable and come no where near our traditional ceremonies. I would advise anyone to steer clear of this obvious charlatan.
 
Paul Spicer, Chief
Seneca-Cayuga Tribe of Oklahoma   


As more come in I'll post them.

Rose ;)
Title: Re: Amylee's April Fools Prank? Watch Out for the Plague!!!!
Post by: SouthwestSkeptic on April 10, 2008, 03:42:15 pm


I know some people love April fool’s day, but scaring people about Bird Flu and Nile virus is really sinking to new levels of unscrupulous marketing.


This was posted by Talon (AKA Amylee Swartz) on April 1st, so it may be a joke.  However since it was posted, Ms. Swartz is under obligation to follow the law. (Note the numerous spelling and grammatical errors)

*************begin post**************************

From: AmyLee & Her Native Roots <Answers@hernativeroots.com>
Date: Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 10:22 PM
Subject: Knock Knock


Knock Knock....
Who's there?
Birdfl.
Birdfl-who?
Bird Flu - may or may not be a hoax, a threat, a pandemic ready to explode. Regardless, if you read my chapter in the book, "101 Great Ways to Improve Your Health"  you know I discourage fear-mongering and advocate preparedness. Why? Becoming prepared for the foreseeable worst-case scenario means you are assuredly prepared for everything else!
And just 'what else' is there? I won't list the real, documented, alarming host of mutated viral and bacteria(sic) strains that are running rampant around the globe. Just pick up any newspaper, any day, anywhere!
"30,000 school children quarantined in China due to outbreak - 14 dead - so far!"
"Staph infection deaths quadruple in  US hospitals"
"Anti-biotic resistent(sic) strain on rampage!"
"Flu virus mutates to dodge latest flu shots"
"Basketball Star stricken with elusive virus - contagions in the locker room!"
Dear Ones, whether or not Bird Flu is real, the Center for Disease Control continues to offer mega million dollar grants to those who can create a way to contain it, to protect the masses from high-speed pandemic spread, and to educate grass roots level agencies on local preparedness. 
The Good News? Getting your immune system built up, cleaning out your colon, liver, kidneys, bladder, lungs now, and keeping Anti-Plague and Immune Boost and Echinacea Blend and True Food on hand, are truly simple insurance - protecting you not only from the Big Bugs, but the already established mutating ones which are popping up everywhere from grocery stores to daycare to the office and public transportation, from restaurants to newstands(sic) to hotels and hospitals...and often your own Home Sweet Home!
I refuse to live a life in fear - especially when the options are so easy-at-hand! While I am chugging some Anti-Plague today (I just transported another injured Hawk, and there were mosquitos(sic) already in the air! West Nile Virus IS real! I've buried many, many animal victims!) I also want to once again encourage YOU to take stock - of your own immune system, colon, kidneys, liver, lungs, and your stock of emergency supplies.
To support you, I am offering a 10% Discount on ALL Her Native Roots Products ordered this month of April. Order now - relax sooner!
I got carried away, while thinking about you, and I made the 'coupon discount code' a little long - sorry. You will have to type in:
No One's Fool!  - complete with the exclamation point! That's how I feel about you - You take care of yourself. You matter to this world. You deserve the best herbs for your best health and healing. You're No One's Fool!
Knock Knock...Who's there?
Herbs...
Herbs who?
Technically, it's 'Herbs that, not Herbs who, keep you safe and strong, because you're No One's Fool!
- Happy, Healthy April!
AmyLee & Her Native Roots

Note the Orwellian “this is not fear-mongering??? tactic.  If this isn’t exploiting the fears of gullible consumers, I just don’t know what is.  This type of quackery is dangerous.  Herbs used in the wrong way can kill people
It’s very disturbing that part of Ms. Swartz’s advertising technique is to claim that her herbal potions are “stronger??? than others.  She also claims that every herb is harvested in an Indigenous way that doesn’t disturb the ecology of the land.  Since “Indigenous way??? usually means harvesting herbs that grow wild,  naturally, I doubt that she would be able to do this naturally while living in (What happens in Las Vegas stays in Las Vegas) Nevada.  Her site is international and has the little shopping carts on it indicating that this is definitely a FOR-PROFIT enterprise, not an Indigenous elder tending to her community.



Fortunately, a new law forces spammers like Amylee to reveal their real addresses.
Here’s her address:



TALON Inc., 3225 S McLeod Suite 100

LV, NV 89121

Tel: (888) ASK-ESSA

Forward to LV attorney general’s office

Please help me fight consumer fraud like this by notifying the Nevada Dept. of Justice. You can file a complaint on behalf of potential Nevada consumers who will be bilked of their hard earned dollars.
There should be enough information in this thread to get the Attny Gen’s attention about this one. Please be professional, polite and very specific about her claims and how you think she may be exploiting the public.


Their website is here:
http://ag.state.nv.us/org/bcp/bcp.htm

Office of the Attorney General Nevada Department of Justice
Bureau of Consumer Protection
555 East Washington Avenue, Suite 3900
Las Vegas, Nevada 89101
Office of the Attorney General Nevada Department of Justice
Bureau of Consumer Protection
100 North Carson Street
Carson City, Nevada 89701
           Southern Nevada Fax: (702) 486-3283
           Northern Nevada Fax: (775) 684-1170
           Email: bcpinfo@ag.state.nv.us

You can also contact the Nevada better business bureau.
http://www.vegasbbb.org/complaints.asp

If people could e-mail her and ask for her credentials for being an "Iroquois Medicine woman" and post those emails or send them to me, that would be helpful also.

Thank you all so much for all your assistance!

It's great to find an intelligent community of supportive Natives!!!

Rose




Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: frederica on April 10, 2008, 05:13:23 pm
Is it ever possibe to notify Quack Watch concerning these people?
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: crazyeagle on April 10, 2008, 09:22:08 pm
Sothwestsceptic..

Sorry..I take objection to your comment " is good to find an intelligent community of natives"

Inside or outside of this community/forum..we are no different from any other race.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: SouthwestSkeptic on April 11, 2008, 04:03:33 am
What High school did you go to? Maybe you can sue.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: SouthwestSkeptic on April 11, 2008, 04:10:49 am
Is it ever possibe to notify Quack Watch concerning these people?

Excellent idea Frederica!

I have a link to them on my site, but I forgot all about them.  However, I remember they ask for a lot of specific information about exactly how the proposed quack is harming people, so it might take some time for me to get that together. 

For now, I need numbers to send a message to her that there are consequences for her quackery.

Please feel free to forward my message wherever you think I could get support.
The email was sent to a new cyber friend of mine and she gave me permission to post it.


The 'Medicine woman' is busy over at the wall of shame forum impersonating a member of Red Road Collective right now.

Rose
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Barnaby_McEwan on April 11, 2008, 07:25:46 am
What High school did you go to? Maybe you can sue.

I think it would have been better to explain what you (or whoever wrote it originally - you haven't made it clear) meant by an intelligent community of supportive Natives.

Or <Dr Cox from Scrubs voice>gosh, who knows, maybe even apologise for unintentionally giving offence with what looks like a racist slur.</Dr Cox from Scrubs voice>
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: crazyeagle on April 11, 2008, 10:41:23 am
Southwetsceptic...it would have been good if you had not come back with a flippant remark but an intelligent one.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Moma_porcupine on April 11, 2008, 12:51:52 pm
I just thought SWS meant it was nice to find an message board with intellegent people discussing Native issues ( SWS does introduce themselves as a Native person )

I guess it is easy to be misunderstood when there is no body language.

Sorry to further take this good thread off topic ...
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: SouthwestSkeptic on April 12, 2008, 02:49:29 am
That’s o.k.

I have to work with people like this all day.  When they have nothing intelligent to contribute to the discussion, their feelings of jealousy and inadequacy compel them try to pick a fight about any trivial they can find.  They do this because they fear that this verbal sniping is the only way that anyone will pay attention to them, since they lack wit and talent to draw attention to themselves in a good way.  I really don’t see why the person calling themselves “crazy eagle??? would assume that I was referring to him/her when I paid a compliment to the intelligence of the Natives in this group -- I wasn't.   By the way, since I am a skeptic, I know better than to believe in the artificial construct of "race".  Come to think of it, I don't think I'v ever heard a P.Y/T.O use the term.  I hear it a lot at work though…… ::)

Rose
Title: Re: Amylee Update: Impersonations and Radio Interview
Post by: SouthwestSkeptic on April 12, 2008, 03:26:59 am
Amylee must be getting desperate --

You can read about Amylee impersonating a Red Road Collective member at:

http://pub31.bravenet.com/forum/2622176167/show/742981


On the bright side, Amylee has removed all references to her Haudenausaunee lineage from her websites.
On www.medwom.com
she claims her page is in gestation.
On www.hernativeroots.com
 she has removed her picture and taken away all references to her being a Medicine woman or a descendent of the Haudenausaunee. She does makes vague references to her lineage, though.

On the other hand, she was just interviewed WBAI radio on the program First Voices Indigenous Radio (www.FirstVoicesIndigenousRadio.org ). The show is hosted by Tiokasin Ghosthorse (Lakota) who appears to be clueless about her., The show aired on April 3, 2008 show. You can listen to it in the archives at:  http://archive.wbai.org. 
Click on see all shows and scroll down to April 3rd

Or just go here: http://archive.wbai.org/allshows.php Then go down to  First Voices Indigenous Radio and click on play on the right side to hear it.

For those of you who don’t have real player, here’s a synopsis of the outlandish claims Swartz made.

She claims to have sponsored the first longest walk which pushed the bill through for religious freedom for Native pp in the US.

She claims Iroquois people passed on wisdom to her to use herbs.

Later on in the interview was lots of Newagey nonsensical  talk .. All directions converge within your own drum your own beating heart…
lots of talk about sacred mother earth and father sky
she says a lot of stuff like the whole parade of your ancestors converges inside your own beating heart and all the future dwells there too.  Lots of trite phrases but nothing of substance

She claims she was guided by many native teachers who took her out to the woods where she earned about herbs from (?) Peterson – a Haudenausaunee medicine woman. She says that the “The plants responded, they absolutely vibrated when she would take a walk to sing to them???. 

She  claims that her great great grandmother had 3 medicine bundles that she kept at  her door and that she was a midwife.

She claims that the term Medicine Woman is an inherited right and she has earned the right to be called that.

She says her grandmothers fortold that she would be an herbalist

She even has the nerve to talk about all those other  hucksters who are doing medicine shows for money.

She also claimed to be fluent in the Iroquois language, but she couldn’t translate her Indian name “She who catches rainbows??? because every word is a sentence and it would be quite a long run on sentence to combine. 

Claims she co-founded the Ohio branch of the Native American Rights Association at Kent State University.  I can’t find any mention of this organization anywhere. 

She never introduced herself properly in her native language or stated exactly who her people are or what rez she grew up on.  We have a radio show here on Sundays and every guest always introduces himself in the language.

She claimed again that she was the last medicine woman in her lineage and she does consultations – whatever that is.

In my opinion, hearing her voice gives you a lot of vital information about who she really is. She seemed to me to break character and get more and more silly and Newagey as the interview progressed. My skin-dar is going off.  The only time I’ve heard somebody talk about “Father sky??? is in the movies.


You can contact  Tiokasin Ghosthorse  to set him straight at:
tiokasin@gmail.com or leave a voicemail at (212) 209-2979

Any support would be greatly appreciated.  Just a few quick emails can stop radio hosts from interviewing people without checking their credentials.

Quack watch emailed me back and might do an article on her if they get more complaints.  They want to talk to someone who's been victimized.


Well that’s all I have time for now

Later,

Rose

Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: InHisHands on September 05, 2008, 01:14:25 am
Southwest skeptic,
As I read all of your information the only thing I can ask is what is it that she has done to you that you are attacking her in this way? :(
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: earthw7 on September 05, 2008, 01:39:19 pm
she is a fraud and hurts all people including herself
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: InHisHands on September 05, 2008, 10:04:30 pm
I have read thru all of these comments and what people are presenting.The only thing that I continue to see is that thier is alot of speculation about alot of different things.I have to say as a women that works very hard to establish myself in life and dream,dreams that it is very scarey that you can just attack and defame someone's character.Yet it appears noone has experienced any of the things that you are attacking are we not people with minds and the abillity to make decision do we not have freedom of choice? Freedom to succeed and yes, even sometimes to fail  (that we do not always get freedom in).I try to walk my life out,treating other's as I would want to be treated. Imagine if in your life someone began to attack you and it affected your livelyhood,your family, your life? I think truth is very impotant But, grace is also as imporatnt and we have a responsibility to tell the truth and hold one another to a higher standard, that standard has to be the same for ourselves, it also is not to be done out of anger or vengence,They say vengence is a lazy mans grief.So the thing that I hope is that we could get researched truth and facts w/out defaming a whole person and there life just to make ourselves feel a little better you know what they say if you have to step on someone to feel big it usually makes you small.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Defend the Sacred on September 05, 2008, 11:24:40 pm
Imagine if in your life someone began to attack you and it affected your livelyhood,your family, your life?

Imagine if someone lied about your community, your religion, your heritage, and it affected the ability of your people to represent themselves and not have their ways stolen and sold? 

Quote
I think truth is very impotant

Then don't defend liars.

And don't come here and anonymously insult those who expose liars and frauds.

The actions of the frauds do not take place in a vacuum. The role of this forum, and the work of those who contribute productively here, is to protect seekers from being exploited, and to protect the traditional ways from being misrepresented and pimped out for the profit of liars.

Quote
that standard has to be the same for ourselves,

Good point. I would hope that anyone working here to expose frauds isn't secretly exploiting seekers, selling ceremony, or lying about themselves.

Not that we would know what you do, as you haven't even bothered to introduce yourself.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Superdog on September 06, 2008, 02:15:48 pm
I have read thru all of these comments and what people are presenting.The only thing that I continue to see is that thier is alot of speculation about alot of different things.I have to say as a women that works very hard to establish myself in life and dream,dreams that it is very scarey that you can just attack and defame someone's character.Yet it appears noone has experienced any of the things that you are attacking are we not people with minds and the abillity to make decision do we not have freedom of choice? Freedom to succeed and yes, even sometimes to fail  (that we do not always get freedom in).I try to walk my life out,treating other's as I would want to be treated. Imagine if in your life someone began to attack you and it affected your livelyhood,your family, your life? I think truth is very impotant But, grace is also as imporatnt and we have a responsibility to tell the truth and hold one another to a higher standard, that standard has to be the same for ourselves, it also is not to be done out of anger or vengence,They say vengence is a lazy mans grief.So the thing that I hope is that we could get researched truth and facts w/out defaming a whole person and there life just to make ourselves feel a little better you know what they say if you have to step on someone to feel big it usually makes you small.

I'm not very well versed on Amylee, but this post appears to be written by Amylee herself.  If you're someone else Inhishands then I apologize, but that's how this comes across to me.  Do you know Amylee and can, with confidence, defend her claims.  I'm just looking for a little on-topic substance to your post.  Your words are true and I'll think you'll find that the members here subscribe to the same ideals.  It's the plastic shamans and medicine men that victimize others for profit selling lies.  They hold themselves to no standard of honesty or grace and they're practices affect the livelihood of those they claim to honor NEGATIVELY (myself included).  Our cultures and practices are not for sale.  The funny part of it is....if ANYONE wanted to legitimately learn...all they would need to do is start asking in a respectful way and earn people's trust by being a good person.  Doesn't cost anyone anything, but the plastic shaman/medicine man/cultural appropriator and profiteer leads good people away from that and into their own interpretation of things....which often leads them to dangers they were unaware of.

So back to the topic...do you know Amylee?  What can you say about her?

Superdog
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: InHisHands on September 08, 2008, 02:45:16 am
Superdog,

Thank you, for the respect and understanding of what I was saying and asking,Instaed of attacking me.
1st off no I am not Amylee,I am a self employed women who believes very much in encouraging and uplifting women to be the best that they can be,I truly understand what  is being sought after here is to present truth.I just believe that truth can be ministered to a person in love and grace and if someone is wrong you help them to see and show them why, not tear them down.So ,this is hard for me to understand because all I have really read is hear say and what little pieces people have found.to encourage attcking someone's funding because you believe something is happening doesn't seem fair I know I would not want that done to me.I did not see where anyone had experienced or seen first hand what was going on it is all speculation.If I missing something please let me know.Yes,I do know Amylee Thanks,Kathy
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Superdog on September 08, 2008, 11:49:19 am
Superdog,

Thank you, for the respect and understanding of what I was saying and asking,Instaed of attacking me.
1st off no I am not Amylee,I am a self employed women who believes very much in encouraging and uplifting women to be the best that they can be,I truly understand what  is being sought after here is to present truth.I just believe that truth can be ministered to a person in love and grace and if someone is wrong you help them to see and show them why, not tear them down.So ,this is hard for me to understand because all I have really read is hear say and what little pieces people have found.to encourage attcking someone's funding because you believe something is happening doesn't seem fair I know I would not want that done to me.I did not see where anyone had experienced or seen first hand what was going on it is all speculation.If I missing something please let me know.Yes,I do know Amylee Thanks,Kathy

Hello Kathy, thanks for introducing yourself.  I can understand your point of view and I'm not saying your wrong.  What I'm saying is if you really see something wrongly put up here then you certainly have the chance to try and make things better for your friend.  But as I said in my previous post you need some on-topic substance.  Your last two posts are diatribes about how people should behave.  I honestly don't think you're telling anything that's brand new to anyone here.  Everyone has their own standards of behavior, but the topic is about Amylee and how truthful her claims are about her tribal heritage.  From what I've seen of her site she does a lot of claiming her products are "Native American"....but what kind???  There's over 500 different nations.  This is a huge question, because there are people firsthand who have met her and give their accounts and there seems to be inconsistency there.  It's that very inconsistency that brings people to question her because she markets her products as Native American products.

So Kathy....that's the biggest question here.  Is she Native American?  What tribe is she from?  What would she say about the tribal governments that deny their ties to her and what she teaches??

Superdog
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: MatoSiWin on September 08, 2008, 03:11:13 pm
"So Kathy....that's the biggest question here.  Is she Native American?  What tribe is she from?  What would she say about the tribal governments that deny their ties to her and what she teaches??"

I second this question.  I know that with over 500 nations, not all NDNs are the same, but I do know that in the Lakota way, if your people don't acknowledge you, and even take it a step further and outright say you are not of them, you can NOT claim that to be yours.  I assume it is similar, if not the same for most nations.  Amylee is claiming a nation that rejects her.  She might be able to explain that away to the wasicu who are paying her for her services, becasue they WANT to believe she is the real deal so that they can claim to have been taught NDN ways by a real NDN, but that sort of thing doesn't fly within the NDN community. 

How would you feel about someone who falsely claimed to have been a war hero, who even had a "purple heart" (that they "bought" somewhere), going around and charging money for their life story or for seminars?  would your feeling of that change if you yourself were a genuine decorated veteran?

What if you were in need of an operation, and just before surgery you heard from numerous other surgeons that your surgeon had lied about thier education and credentials and was not the "real deal"?  Would you still want them to operate on you?  (Yes, I realize that they would not be allowed to practice once their fraudulent lies had been exposed, but you see my point). 

People who claim to be something they are not cause hurt to those who trust them.  It is even worse when you are talking about a people and their culture because followers blindly believe that crap, take it as fact, and then pass thier misinformation on to others... it's like a wildfire that spreads out of control.  And guess who has to try to extinguish it?
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Defend the Sacred on September 08, 2008, 04:43:03 pm
I am a self employed women who believes very much in encouraging and uplifting women to be the best that they can be,

Hi, Kathy. I have met Amylee, though I would not say I "know" her. However, a close friend of mine attended a talk and workshop with her, and other women I know have also met her and interacted with her to some degree.

While she may be making the white women who attend her events feel better about themselves, what about how she makes Native American women feel?

Her actions hurt Native American women.  So how does that equal "helping women"?
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: earthw7 on September 08, 2008, 05:31:37 pm
As a Native Woman I am hurt by lies, how can a person help another
with lies.
A person CAN NOT CLAIM to be Native unless her tribe claims her, she
has no rights to the beliefs of the Native people. We have rite and rituals
a person must go though among their people to get these rites.
All native people have a right to ask who are you
What tribe claims you? who are your relatives? who taught you?
Who are your witnesses?

Oh most people since the beginning of time have witnesses who can
stand up for them and say they have these rights.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Defend the Sacred on September 08, 2008, 06:18:08 pm
I think any "feel-good" hit that these middle-class or wealthy white women, or any women or men, get from these sorts of things is illusiory. And the herbal information she has, if followed... some of it is wrong to the point of being dangerous.

When people build their self-esteem, or their spirituality, on lies, it will tear under the weight of real life. While some of these seekers may briefly feel comforted by the illusions, on a deeper level, in reality, and in the long run, I believe they are only being harmed, as well.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: InHisHands on September 09, 2008, 01:28:15 am
Superdog, thank you.

Commnent: I did not say Amylee was my friend. That is precisely the type of rush to conclusions that is all over this site.

To answer you’re –and someothers – questions: (1) Amylee doesn’t own any products. She volunteers to help the herb company because they help Native Americans. I learned that on the link posted on your thread: www.hernativeroots.com  (Kathryn, you are so vague about what “herbal information she has is wrong and dangerous??? – people here don’t like it when someone makes vague accusations. Be specific.)

(2) From what I know and what I read on some links here on your site, AmyLee’s been retired for 15 years or so, just volunteering where she can. Isn’t picking on something she MIGHT have said or done that long ago like beating a dead horse – for 15 years – while pretending you are trying to beat a still living horse to death?  http://www.gobignetwork.com/profiles/AmyLee-ofHawkHollow.aspx

(3) What tribes ‘deny’ her? The only one you mention here is the former Chief Spicer. I say fomer because I searched him and he was removed in dissgrace. In the letter he wrote on this site, he does not name Amylee, he referrs to the person Southwest Skeptic wrote him about. Skeptic has gotten everything else wrong about her including Amylee’s ‘real’ name (I think that’s called Liable!)  It looks like chief Spicer was talking about someone who doesn’t fit the Amylee we know (My folks were neighbors for years and knew her family and her, – and yes, their Indian..) So where are all the tribes that deny her? I see none.

 So far, I don’t see any facts here and I count dozens of lies. (THAT’s what’s hurting people Earthw7!)
Why don’t you contact these people you are upset with BEFORE you post the gossip? Do you even read the links you DO post? You print all their contact information – why didn’t you use it FIRST then post their replies? Tell them who you are and what you saw somewhere else online BEFORE you post it here and ask them for a statement. I know if you contacted me AFTER you posted all those lies, and act like they are fact, I wouldn’t give you the time of day!
It is not my place to correct your mistakes you shouldn’t have made in the first place. This is not a ‘diatribe’. This is just my opinion because I know Amylee and I know a lynching when I see one.




Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Dine Asdzani Nizhoni on September 09, 2008, 01:53:12 am
 author=InHisHands link=topic=1509.msg14054#msg14054 date=1220923695]
Superdog, thank you.

Commnent: I did not say Amylee was my friend. That is precisely the type of rush to conclusions that is all over this site.

To answer you’re –and someothers – questions: (1) Amylee doesn’t own any products. She volunteers to help the herb company because they help Native Americans. I learned that on the link posted on your thread: www.hernativeroots.com  (Kathryn, you are so vague about what “herbal information she has is wrong and dangerous??? – people here don’t like it when someone makes vague accusations. Be specific.)

Native herb is make by medicine men specific make  for a patient that need it. What she doing selling herb under native American labels. she is not specialized to perform any herbs treatment.

(2) From what I know and what I read on some links here on your site, AmyLee’s been retired for 15 years or so, just volunteering where she can. Isn’t picking on something she MIGHT have said or done that long ago like beating a dead horse – for 15 years – while pretending you are trying to beat a still living horse to death?  http://www.gobignetwork.com/profiles/AmyLee-ofHawkHollow.aspx

(3) What tribes ‘deny’ her? The only one you mention here is the former Chief Spicer. I say fomer because I searched him and he was removed in dissgrace. In the letter he wrote on this site, he does not name Amylee, he referrs to the person Southwest Skeptic wrote him about. Skeptic has gotten everything else wrong about her including Amylee’s ‘real’ name (I think that’s called Liable!)  It looks like chief Spicer was talking about someone who doesn’t fit the Amylee we know (My folks were neighbors for years and knew her family and her, – and yes, their Indian..) So where are all the tribes that deny her? I see none.

Is she enrolled in native american tribe and specialized herb?

 So far, I don’t see any facts here and I count dozens of lies. (THAT’s what’s hurting people Earthw7!)
Why don’t you contact these people you are upset with BEFORE you post the gossip? Do you even read the links you DO post? You print all their contact information – why didn’t you use it FIRST then post their replies? Tell them who you are and what you saw somewhere else online BEFORE you post it here and ask them for a statement. I know if you contacted me AFTER you posted all those lies, and act like they are fact, I wouldn’t give you the time of day!
It is not my place to correct your mistakes you shouldn’t have made in the first place. This is not a ‘diatribe’. This is just my opinion because I know Amylee and I know a lynching when I see one.





As far I can see someone who not enrolled in native american tribe is hurting another native american, why because one person is selling thing that is suppose to make by native american. By which it is not.
medicine men are the ppls who specialized in these area, and it take years to know what they know.
and yes it wrong to sell herbs under native american herbs, if is not make by native american.

DAN




Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Defend the Sacred on September 09, 2008, 02:05:40 am
This is not a ‘diatribe’.

Uh, actually, it kinda is.

Quote
I know a lynching when I see one.

Not only a troll, but a racist. Discussing someone's public statements in a forum on the Internet is not equivalent to torturing someone to death in a racist hate crime, and leaving their disfigured body in a tree for their family to find. Equating the two is ignorant, racist, and massively insensitive to the families of people who've been murdered that way.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: SouthwestSkeptic on September 09, 2008, 06:26:44 am
I contacted Chief Spicer and he gave me permission to post his words on this site and several other sites. 
Your logic is flawed. Whether or not Chief Spicer resigns over tribal politics, he is still a LEGITIMATE member of the Seneca Wolf clan and capable of giving an informed opinion about Miss Swartz outrageous claims of being an "Iroquois Medicine woman" and the permission that the elders gave her to sell "Wolf clan memberships."

Tribal politics happens. 

I found Chief Spicer to be a very pleasant and reasonable man and very knowledgeable about the Wolf clan.  He emailed me back almost immediately after I sent a request and he was the first to grant permssioin to post his opinion of the great "Medicine woman."

Every other tribal member I was able to contact also denounced Miss Swartz. 

When she was posting to the American Indian Tribe Forum,
they laughed her out of the forum.

http://forum.americanindiantribe.com/viewtopic.php?t=6077&start=0

She was also laughed out of Native American Tube.

The words you choose are very, very revealing. When Miss Swartz was caught impersonating a Native American on these boards, she used the exact same phrase that Chief Spicer was "removed in disgrace."  to detract attention from her many errors in misrepresenting herself as a "Medicine Woman".  Actually, he resigned. Considering the magnitude of Miss Swartz' dishonesty here, it's pretty hypocritical for her to enlist her shills to point to someone else’s problems.

I'm having the webmasters send Al the IP address of the sock puppets that “Amylee the great medicine woman??? created, so we'll know pretty soon who you really are.

In answer to the question "What tribes ‘deny’ her?" Here's a partial list:
Akwesasne/St. Regis (Canada -Quebec, Ontario)
Mohawk Council of Akwesasne
Mohawk Council of Akwesasne – (United States – New York State)
Ganienkeh Territory (New York State)
Mohawk Nation Office
Kanatsiohareke (New York State)
Kanesatake (Quebec) (OKA)
Mohawks of Kahnnawake - Iroquois Caucus Member
Mohawk Nation Council of Chiefs
Mohawks of the Bay of Quinte - Iroquois Caucus Member
Ohsweken/Six nations/Grand River (Ontario) home to Mohawk, Oneida, Onondaga, Cayuga, Seneca, and Tuscarora
Sahanatien Community
Saint Regis Mohawk (Upstate New York)
Six Nations
Elected Band Council
Ohsweken Brantford, Ontario
Six Nations
Elected Band Council
Brantford, ON
Canada
Six Nations Grand River Reserve
Tyendinaga (Ontario)
Mohawks of The Bay of Quinte
Wahta Mohawks Iroquois Caucus Member
Wahta Mohawk Territory
Mohawk Council of Kanesatake - Iroquois Caucus Member
Seneca Nation of Indians
Seneca-Cayuga Tribe – Miami Office
Seneca-Cayuga Tribe Grove Office
Tonawanda Band of Seneca's
Tonawanda Seneca Nation, Genesee County, NY
Seneca Nation of Indians
Allegeny Reservation
Cattaraugus Reservation
Michaels Band (Iroquois)
Alberta, Canada

Since you bear the burden of proof to show that Miss Swartz is indeed an "Iroquois Medicine woman", I challenge you to give the contact information for even ONE legitimate Native representative who can vouch for the veracity of Miss Swartz's claims of being the "last in her Iroquois lineage" and of being an "Iroquois Medicine woman".

I've never heard of a "Medicine woman" that the tribe has no knowledge of. It's absurd.
 

A cursory google search will show that "Amylee" was born in Ohio in the 1950s to Evelyn Mae (Johnson) Swartz and David L. Swartz.  Neither side of her family possesses even ONE DROP of native blood.  Since the early 1980's she has been claiming to be the last in her "lineage" on her mother's side, but that side of the family can be traced to England and Ireland through public records and documents easily obtainable through a FOIA request.   She also claims to be the only daughter of an only daughter, yet her sisters, neices and aunts have a different opinion.

Herbal cures are not harmless and many of the herbs she sells can harm or even kill people.  Her "Iroquois Bird Flu remedy" and her "Native American Colon Cleanse" are pure quackery.  (and by the way, removing the websites won't cover up these scams, several Mohawk groups have the screen shots I emailed to them.)

It appears that Miss Swartz has been misrepresenting herself as a medicine woman and gullible non-NDN people have been taken for a lot of money in her "Sisterhood of the Shields scams".  Anyone with a higher than room temperature I.Q. should be able to see how fraudulent her claims are. I can think of no other group of people who are constantly told by the dominant culture that lies about them are harmless than the NDN people. I also find it racist to imply that it's o.k. to cheat and swindle people because of their race.  Indigenous values teach us that lying, cheating and defrauding people is wrong.

A brief google search will show anyone without bias that Miss Swartz re-makes herself when she gets caught in a lie, but she has never stopped her fraudulent misrepresentation of herself as a spiritual leader of the Haudensaunee/Seneca.

I also have emails that she sent to a RRC member that show how dishonest she is. I'll post them when I get permission.

Thanks for keeping this thead at the top of the list, I hope it will warn more people about this fraud. ;)

Rose
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: JB Wingo on September 18, 2008, 02:51:29 pm
I am the Independent Indian Media Booking Agent who arranged for AmyLee to be interviewed on First Voices Indigenous Radio, April 3, 2008. During the months of this year’s Longest Walk 2, I thought her discussion about that first Longest Walk in 1978 would be appreciated by various media venues. I knew that AmyLee had been a regional organizer who worked closely with Vernon Bellecourt in 1978. Afterwards and upon learning there was one email challenging her First Voices appearance, she graciously offered her government issued documentation, including arranging for such to be sent  directly from their official source.

 Ms. Rose Garcia (Southwest Skeptic) posted deceptively worded misrepresentation of AmyLee’s interview. It follows and precedes a lengthy list of other falsified posts about her. There are over 52 false and misleading statements on page one of this thread mostly sired by the 100% fictitious Red Road Collective site first posted more than 15 years ago!
(It appears nearly every lie about AmyLee can be traced back to the RRC.) That number of errors triples on page two, where Ms. Garcia makes numerous outrageous claims which smack of cyber-stalking. The veracity of Ms. Garcia is the real question. I should add here that I have known AmyLee for 20 years, the same approximate age of Ms. Garcia, whose only information about AmyLee appears to come from the internet and possibly an RRC supporter who may or may not have met AmyLee over 15 years ago.

About AmyLee:
To my extensive knowledge, she has never claimed to be a member of the Wolf Clan.  She has never sold ‘Wolf Clan Memberships.’ She has never claimed to be a ‘spiritual leader.’ She has never claimed to be the ‘traditional medicine woman’ to or for any group of people. She has never claimed to be a ‘life coach.’ She has never claimed to have a ‘cure’ for anything. She has never claimed to be a ‘shaman.’ The product list for Her Native Roots never featured any items called ‘American Indian Colon Cleanse’ nor ‘Iroquois Bird Flu Remedy.’ These are facts. And the list goes on and on. 

Just as irresponsible as those who defame her here are those who over-spoke her merits on their own sites, including those links which prematurely dubbed AmyLee a ‘Medicine Woman,’ or claimed her as their Teacher (often after one 50 minute public lecture) or called her an ‘Elder’ years before AmyLee will ever agree to wear the honor. AmyLee is not accountable for what other people say about her – good or bad. The burden of proof is not on AmyLee.

I could continue a check list - refuting each and every point noted by Ms. Garcia who undoubtedly believes her own skewed perceptions. However, if history repeats itself here, I would only be ridiculed on this site as a troll, shill, or presumed to be AmyLee herself or someone you dismiss as having been fooled by her. Instead, I offer a novel solution or at least a refreshing perspective. The list of libel and character defamation against AmyLee is growing to the point of endangering the actual good work this forum does. I have forwarded this thread to Domingo Rivera, cyber defamation attorney. Relax - not to sue anybody – but to review, then offer his professional opinion about its content and conduct and to offer a reasonable resolution if he sees one. I shall also forward him the “evidence??? I have, and inform TALON Inc which owns Her Native Roots Herbals, and snail-mail AmyLee too so that they know what’s going on and have the opportunity to supply documents or responses. You are also free to do the same. While this looks like mediation it is not – no one is bound to anything. No “outcome??? is even being suggested. This is just an option I am in a position to offer in the name of facts, truth and justice – which is what we all say we want. Take it or leave it.


You might be well advised to learn what you can about the new cyber-defamation laws.
His website is: http://www.cyberinternetlawyer.com/Online_Defamation.html

My email address is: IndiMedia@live.com  Subject line: AmyLee.  Please forward all information to me and I will take responsibility for seeing he receives it.
 
I suspect it will take him awhile to report back to this site with his findings and assessment. If you are going to send me anything to forward to him, please do so in the next two weeks.
Until then, tempted posters may wish to think twice, just in case this does grow into something with legal implications. Further libel could endanger this site, its hosts and the posters. Corporations do not take kindly to having their family members – be it their products or their volunteers, senselessly slandered and threatened.

I know just enough about the law to know when I need to call an expert. Race is a core issue in this thread. The legal definition of ‘lynching’ also includes extrajudical punishment meted out by a mob with a 'mob' being defined as "two or more persons, without color or authority of law, coming together for the purpose (predetermined at the onset or not) of harming another and from which death does not result." You clearly want to harm her – her reputation, community standing, and any products with which she is connected. I don’t think anyone here really wants mob rule. A time out, a voice of unbiased reason from a cyber-attorney, seems prudent at this point – for all concerned.

While I have been open with you that I have knowledgeable reason to believe AmyLee is innocent of all allegations here, I am also open to being proven wrong. If there is enough substantial information forwarded to me it might also make a good story for First Voices Radio or another media venue I might arrange.  JB
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Superdog on September 18, 2008, 06:36:52 pm
I am the Independent Indian Media Booking Agent who arranged for AmyLee to be interviewed on First Voices Indigenous Radio, April 3, 2008. During the months of this year’s Longest Walk 2, I thought her discussion about that first Longest Walk in 1978 would be appreciated by various media venues. I knew that AmyLee had been a regional organizer who worked closely with Vernon Bellecourt in 1978. Afterwards and upon learning there was one email challenging her First Voices appearance, she graciously offered her government issued documentation, including arranging for such to be sent  directly from their official source.

 Ms. Rose Garcia (Southwest Skeptic) posted deceptively worded misrepresentation of AmyLee’s interview. It follows and precedes a lengthy list of other falsified posts about her. There are over 52 false and misleading statements on page one of this thread mostly sired by the 100% fictitious Red Road Collective site first posted more than 15 years ago!
(It appears nearly every lie about AmyLee can be traced back to the RRC.) That number of errors triples on page two, where Ms. Garcia makes numerous outrageous claims which smack of cyber-stalking. The veracity of Ms. Garcia is the real question. I should add here that I have known AmyLee for 20 years, the same approximate age of Ms. Garcia, whose only information about AmyLee appears to come from the internet and possibly an RRC supporter who may or may not have met AmyLee over 15 years ago.

About AmyLee:
To my extensive knowledge, she has never claimed to be a member of the Wolf Clan.  She has never sold ‘Wolf Clan Memberships.’ She has never claimed to be a ‘spiritual leader.’ She has never claimed to be the ‘traditional medicine woman’ to or for any group of people. She has never claimed to be a ‘life coach.’ She has never claimed to have a ‘cure’ for anything. She has never claimed to be a ‘shaman.’ The product list for Her Native Roots never featured any items called ‘American Indian Colon Cleanse’ nor ‘Iroquois Bird Flu Remedy.’ These are facts. And the list goes on and on. 

Just as irresponsible as those who defame her here are those who over-spoke her merits on their own sites, including those links which prematurely dubbed AmyLee a ‘Medicine Woman,’ or claimed her as their Teacher (often after one 50 minute public lecture) or called her an ‘Elder’ years before AmyLee will ever agree to wear the honor. AmyLee is not accountable for what other people say about her – good or bad. The burden of proof is not on AmyLee.

I could continue a check list - refuting each and every point noted by Ms. Garcia who undoubtedly believes her own skewed perceptions. However, if history repeats itself here, I would only be ridiculed on this site as a troll, shill, or presumed to be AmyLee herself or someone you dismiss as having been fooled by her. Instead, I offer a novel solution or at least a refreshing perspective. The list of libel and character defamation against AmyLee is growing to the point of endangering the actual good work this forum does. I have forwarded this thread to Domingo Rivera, cyber defamation attorney. Relax - not to sue anybody – but to review, then offer his professional opinion about its content and conduct and to offer a reasonable resolution if he sees one. I shall also forward him the “evidence??? I have, and inform TALON Inc which owns Her Native Roots Herbals, and snail-mail AmyLee too so that they know what’s going on and have the opportunity to supply documents or responses. You are also free to do the same. While this looks like mediation it is not – no one is bound to anything. No “outcome??? is even being suggested. This is just an option I am in a position to offer in the name of facts, truth and justice – which is what we all say we want. Take it or leave it.


You might be well advised to learn what you can about the new cyber-defamation laws.
His website is: http://www.cyberinternetlawyer.com/Online_Defamation.html

My email address is: IndiMedia@live.com  Subject line: AmyLee.  Please forward all information to me and I will take responsibility for seeing he receives it.
 
I suspect it will take him awhile to report back to this site with his findings and assessment. If you are going to send me anything to forward to him, please do so in the next two weeks.
Until then, tempted posters may wish to think twice, just in case this does grow into something with legal implications. Further libel could endanger this site, its hosts and the posters. Corporations do not take kindly to having their family members – be it their products or their volunteers, senselessly slandered and threatened.

I know just enough about the law to know when I need to call an expert. Race is a core issue in this thread. The legal definition of ‘lynching’ also includes extrajudical punishment meted out by a mob with a 'mob' being defined as "two or more persons, without color or authority of law, coming together for the purpose (predetermined at the onset or not) of harming another and from which death does not result." You clearly want to harm her – her reputation, community standing, and any products with which she is connected. I don’t think anyone here really wants mob rule. A time out, a voice of unbiased reason from a cyber-attorney, seems prudent at this point – for all concerned.

While I have been open with you that I have knowledgeable reason to believe AmyLee is innocent of all allegations here, I am also open to being proven wrong. If there is enough substantial information forwarded to me it might also make a good story for First Voices Radio or another media venue I might arrange.  JB


Hi JB.  I'm one of the ones who doesn't know a lot about AmyLee.  I've been attempting to take sometime to learn a little about her.  I'm noticing one thing about her though.  There is definitely a concerted effort to remove her and her name from things on the net.  When I first started reading this thread on the 5th of September the Iroquois Bird Flu Remedy did exist on the net, attributed to AmyLee and then a few days later when I clicked the link again it had disappeared with a message from the site owner stating that the post was removed per request of AmyLee.

Another interesting thing that came up was the site of one of her students who is a teacher at Artsonia Art School.  A google searched turned up Amylee's name on her "Meet the teachers" page, but when I clicked the link the quote wasn't there.   Here's the page as it exists now.

http://www.artsonia.com/schools/teachers.asp?id=1014

But here's a cached version of this same page dating August 12.

link to Google's cached version of the page (http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:PIvFE3NBetwJ:www.artsonia.com/schools/teachers.asp%3Fid%3D1014+AmyLee,+Iroquois&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=29&gl=us)

There is a line that is removed from the former description which reads:  "Amy Lee, Iroquois elder, medicine woman and shield builder, has greatly influenced her subject matter. Veronica has been a member of Amy Lee’s spiritual group for women since 1991.
"

The current page is missing these two sentences.


Not saying this is proof of anything....it's only things that can truly be attributed to third parties....just a weird coincidence.  Definitely goes along with an effort to remove AmyLee's digital footprint however.

I've also seen a Seneca site that lists her as a Seneca author.  So is she enrolled Seneca??  Why is it such a big secret??  It certainly doesn't follow the behavior pattern of someone with nothing to hide.  I'm still on the fence about it.  If she's Indian, if she's doin' good work....all the best.  If she's tryin' to sell religion...wrong on all fronts.  Haven't seen anything truly one way or the other....

The legend about "She Who Catches the Rainbows"....I finally caught where that came from.  From the way it's written on the website it's a fantasy.

The suspicious type of behavior though still puzzles me...why try and disappear??


Barnaby's note: link to cached page shortened to make page fit better in browser windows.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Kevin on September 18, 2008, 06:39:59 pm
Smudging with Lawyers:
Why if a site is posted for us unelightened ones, i.e. Domingo Rivera, would anyone need to email you first? I don't quite understand that. It's been my observation and experience too that anyone who 'telegraphs' fighting intentions usually loses.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Barnaby_McEwan on September 18, 2008, 09:17:49 pm
...Ms. Rose Garcia (Southwest Skeptic) posted deceptively worded misrepresentation...a lengthy list of other falsified posts...over 52 false and misleading statements...Ms. Garcia makes numerous outrageous claims which smack of cyber-stalking...The veracity of Ms. Garcia is the real question...

I think you should have run those statements by your lawyer before posting them: they look potentially libellous to me. I doubt that you've done any favours for your friend.

Superdog, you saw Amylee's latest gimmick, the 'songpods'! Check out the schtick! (http://www.songpods.com/Songpodsnewsite/about.html)

Quote
A percentage from each sale benefits both Native and Nature Projects.

Which ones? Where are the accounts published?

Quote
We guarantee your Bliss! Settle for nothing less!

Just too cheesy for words.

Quote
The Inventor is Native American Indian. SongPods are not presented as an 'American Indian Made Craft' nor 'traditional Indian Art form.'

No, they're just promoted via a site which features a stereotypical "Native American" in the top left-hand corner of every page. That's the only clue a twinkie needs to know it'll make 'em feel spirchul.

Quote
Metallurgy Apprentices from diverse cultural paths converge at her forest studio to learn their welded mysteries.

-- vomits on keyboard --



Responding to a claim made here (http://www.gobignetwork.com/profiles/AmyLee-ofHawkHollow.aspx) on a page referred to by a previous poster - that this Amylee person now concentrates on 'wildlife protection'. My better half also does this and knows a very large number of wildlife people on both sides of the Atlantic. She and her colleagues make enormous personal sacrifices to care for animals and birds that need help. They do not have time to be talking about themselves on some radio show or promoting tinkling gimmicks on the web.

Really all you've got to do is look at her claims and her past, and then briefly think about Tehanetorens' (http://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/news/archive.php?id=1814) (Ray Fadden's) life, and you know who's for real. As well as building and running the Six Nations Indian Museum (http://www.tuscaroras.com/graydeer/pages/sixnamus.htm) with his family, he fed dozens of bears and thousands of birds in the woods near his home in the Adirondacks - in his own words, "to help out, the best I can".

Frauds in this sphere are also not looked on kindly. If Amylee is lying about this then she's going to be on a lot more sh*tlists.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: SouthwestSkeptic on September 19, 2008, 02:32:07 am

Nice try at intimidation, shield maker. 

For a booking agent, you’re not much of a fact checker. 

If you verified Miss Swartz’s claims then why not share the information with us? Did she “offer??? her government issued documentation or did she actually produce it? There’s a big difference.  Why has she refused to produce this documentation to everyone who’s asked her over the last 30 years?

What is her real name and in what federally recognized “Iroquois??? tribe is she recognized as a medicine woman?  If she’s so legit, why does she refuse to provide this information?  I challenge you to provide proof that AmyLee has any sort of government documentation.

I didn’t post anything about Miss Swartz that wasn’t public information.  If Miss Swartz didn’t want people to know who her relatives are then why did she post her family’s genealogy online for everyone to see along with her mama's obituary bragging about being in the sisterhood of the shields?. Miss Swartz makes it so easy to disprove her bogus claims it’s like she wants to get caught.

Nothing I posted was “deceptive??? and I don’t know how anyone could “defame??? the great medicine womon (sic) with her own words.  Nothing was misrepresented in my posts. I quoted AmyLee directly. I heard her speaking myself on the radio with my own ears.  If you think I got it wrong, I challenge you to post an accurate transcript so EVERYONE can see what Miss Swartz claims to be.
 
Everything I posted came directly from AmyLee’s mouth or from Her Native Roots website. The quotes are still in my initial post for anyone to check.  A lot of the Her Native Roots advertising is cached.

Every word I published either came directly from Newsletters sent out by Her Native Roots, was directly transcribed from the radio broadcast (which anyone could have listened to AmyLee speaking in her own voice  when the link was up) or was copied directly from AmyLee’s advertising on the internet.  The Bird Flu advertising was unaltered came directly from Her Native Roots. I reproduced it with permission from the client to whom it was sent. The colon cleanse is still being advertised --  google “Her Native Roots??? + “colon cleanse??? and you can still see the old advertisement.  The Better Business bureau has copies of the original ad along with Miss Swartz’s claim to be an “Iroquois??? selling a Native American product. All this information was available to you before you booked Miss Swartz.

 It sure is suspicious how all mention of Miss Swartz being an “Iroquois medicine womon (sic)??? has  been removed from the internet.  However, nothing ever disappears in cyber-space.  Screen shots are the greatest things!  (and hard paper copies admissible in court, too!) 

The gig is up, shieldmaker. You can take down your sites and try to hide your tracks, but I made lots and lots screen shots before I posted to this forum so you didn’t manage to destroy any evidence of your fraud and misrepresentation.  They’ve all been mailed to the attorney general of the state where you reside and to every single Mohawk and Seneca tribal leader I could find.

Why don’t you contact the attorney general and ask him what the penalty is for fraud and misrepresentation?

I don’t know why you’re so hostile to RRC, since it appears you’ve made a career plagiarizing them and Amoja Three Rivers and Andrea Smith too.  Wasn’t Amoja the first native woman to confront you on your fakery back in the 1990s? Didn’t Andrea denounce you for your fakery also? No love lost there huh?

The American Indian Tribe forum called you on all your B.S and so did the people over on Native Tube as well as almost the entire “Women of Color tent at the Michigan Womyn’s (sic) Music Festival just before your early ‘retirement.’ That’s a whole lot criticism coming from a diverse group of people. Are you going to threaten to sue them all to shut them up?
 
By the way, I came across a very interesting book in the library this weekend. It’s titled Profiles in Wisdom: Native Elders speak about the Earth by Steve McFadden.  AmyLee the “shieldmaker??? herself is interviewed in this book.

There is a picture of the great and powerful AmyLee that looks pretty stereotypical to me. I’ve never seen a Native woman braid her hair like that, but I’ve seen it a lot in the movies.
 The “shieldmaker??? is interviewed with several other people who’s ‘wisdom’ we are all familiar with
Some of the other alleged elders are: Dhyani Ywahoo, Twyla Nitsch, Sun Bear, Oh Shinnah and Hunbatz Men.  The contents refer to AmyLee as “Massapowa for the people of the morning light.???

Maybe you’ll want to sue Mr. McFadden for defamation after he printed all this:

Many of the claims made by “AmyLee??? that have mysteriously disappeared from the internet still remain in print.  Excerpts from her chapter, “Sacred Roles of Women and Men???  are cited below:

“AmyLee, the Shieldmaker, She Who Catches Rainbows??? (McFadden,  p. 181)

“born of Iroquois parents.???  (McFadden,  p. 181)

“AmyLee has by circumstance become the last woman in an ancient lineage of woodland Indians women who have practiced the medicine ways??? (McFaddden,  p. 181)

“Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve (A non-profit 501 c 3 ) her medicine place in Tippecanoe Ohio.???
(McFadden,  p. 181)

“She also serves as a guide for two-leggeds (human beings) and she shares the ancient healing ways.???
(McFadden,  p. 181)

AmyLee “developed and conducted a series of American Indian values courses??? … “at Kent State University???
(McFadden,  p. 181)

“AmyLee has long reddish-brown hair that, when spread out, is evocative of her totem the magnificent red tailed hawk.??? (McFadden, p. 181)

“I’m the last in a long line of women who have been called to a medicine-way path, women of Iroquois lineage.??? (McFadden, p. 182)

“Interestingly, the mothers of the lineage had only one daughter.??? 
“In our medicine ways the passage on of ritual and other wisdom from elders skips every 7th generation.???
“The women of that generation gets to go out and do other things.???

“My mother is one of the seventh generation women, that the lineage skipped her generation.???
(McFadden,  p. 182)

“I am the first person in a new count of seven, but I am also the last generation of the whole lineage.???
(McFadden, p. 182)

“It was foretold to me that I wouldn’t have children.???

“And I don’t see in creation’s plan that I should spend my energy putting it in to one child.???  “Instead I have all these baskets of seeds that I have been gifted with from my grandmothers to hand out to other people.??? (McFadden, p. 182)

“From early childhood, AmyLee was gradually exposed to the teachings and medicine of her elders.???
“at times being the center of that ritual as I became a woman.???

“I had my Moontimes at age nine???   “allowed me to participate in adult rituals at a very early age.???

I was taught my great-great grandmother’s medicine ways.??? (McFadden, p. 183)


“Great great grandma had three medicine bundles she kept by her door.??? (McFadden, p. 183)


“One had medicine for her to give as a midwife to help babies come into the world.???
“Another had medicine to help those leaving this world.??? (McFadden, p. 183)


“A third bag for those who were still going to be in the world.??? (McFadden, p. 183)


Referring to her Iroquois great great grandmother,
“She lived alone.??? (McFadden, p. 183)


“Most of the women in our family live alone.???  “Men leave because medicine women really don’t have the ability to take care of them, but a medicine man usually needs a woman to take care of him.???
(McFadden, p. 183)


“People from all cultures would come to her (grandmother) because by then we were off the reserve.???

“Our family left the reservation when both alcohol and missionaries came.???
(McFadden p. 183)

“Grandma zapped cancer off a man’s face with her laserlike hands.???
(McFadden, p. 183)

“… told him to be grateful to the cancer for teaching him …???
(McFadden, p. 183)

“Like the last dinosaur.???  “As the last woman in a long line of Iroquois Medicine women, AmyLee is carefully deliberately opening the medicine bundles of her family tradition to give the contents away.???
(McFadden, p. 186)


“I truly do believe that Native American Indians are not only endangered species, but one that is on the brink of extinction.??? AmyLee in
(McFadden, p. 186)

“The making of shields …is an inherited seed that AmyLee is sharing.???
(McFadden, p. 194)

“AmyLee is sharing the tradition of the shields.???
(McFadden, p. 194)

“The medicine of the shields will work only in the woodlands.???
(McFadden, p. 194)

“At the 1989 summer solstice AmyLee invited all women to earn the right to build their own shields.???
(McFadden, p. 194)

“The women give birth to their shields.  My job is as midwife to the women to help them give birth.???

“For several moon cycles, the women give birth to them.???
(McFadden, p. 194)

Is AmyLee responsible for allowing her picture to be published in this book along with all the bogus claims she made in print?  This is HER interview with HER own words. The book was published in 1991 and it’s still available online. How do you explain her ridiculous claims now?

I’m sure there are lots of angry women who attended the Michigan Womyn’s (sic) Music festival I’ve been chatting with who would be happy to tell the attorney general all about the $300.00 they blew on wolf clan memberships. There’s a couple posts in their forum about her.

I got my initial information from an irate Mohawk woman in another forum.  She’s says everything AmyLee said in Profiles in Wisdom is bogus.   

Anyone who wants to can check out the book I referenced here:
https://millennium.marmot.org:444/search~S93?/dNew+Age+movement+--+Handbooks,+manuals,+etc./dnew+age+movement+handbooks+manuals+etc/-3%2C-1%2C0%2CB/frameset&FF=dnew+age+movement+north+america&1%2C1%2C


They sure do use the word shaman a lot, you better sue these people right quick!


Rose
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Kevin on September 19, 2008, 02:48:57 am
Ouch and double ouch! there sure are alot of referenced, direct quotes in the previous post. If it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it must be a duck - quack! quack! (fraud! fraud!) I think Amy Shield Duck is about ready to fly south for good. Imagine things being deleted but cached - sounds like something a fake lawyer would advise someone to do, eh?
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: educatedindian on September 19, 2008, 04:31:27 am
Mr. Wingo's post was intended to intimidate, and no doubt also to itself smear and come very close to libeling some of the members here. If he truly intended legal action, or even simply wanted to ask about his concerns with the site mods about the posts about his client, he would have contacted a moderator privately. But he has not.

It's very curious the coordinated yet clumsy efforts by Wingo and the anonymous Kathi/InHisHands. First a long series of claims that Amylee has been retired for 15 years, followed by demands from her booking agent and then threats of employing a libel attorney specializing in protecting businesses and business owners whose profits are threatened.

But just forwarding your claims to an attorney means little. If Rivera were working as counsel for Wingo or Amylee, we no doubt would have heard from Rivera, not Wingo, and not "Kathi" who sounds amazingly like Amylee. As it is, Wingo is just doing some very silly name dropping, when by his own admission Rivera is not his lawyer, only potentially/possibly/kinda maybe in the future.

Incidentally, Amylee's profile on the American Indian Tribes forum is still up, even though Amylee deleted all her posts there, to hide evidence no doubt, much like she or others acting on her behalf are now doing elsewhere on the net.

Amylee's AIT profile lists her profession as "medicine woman." Perhaps Wingo will advise Amylee to sue herself. Or perhaps Wingo could develop a streak of ethics and realize his client has been lying to him, and drop her before his own reputation suffers.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Min Toro on September 20, 2008, 02:19:34 pm
I barely know where to begin as this is hopefully going to be my one and only statement. (I have a life.)
Firstly, while I think “JB??? is trying to make some sense of this wayward thread, I am always a little suspect of both “media??? and “lawyers.??? Could be JB is trying to get something sensational to turn Amylee into a hot media ticket to “book??? elsewhere? If so, you all are certainly helping – media thrives on controversy! (Good luck, JB, as I think she’s only made one television and two radio appearances in 30 or so years - for free and as favors to friends, and they picked the topics. She’s never had an “Agent??? nor expressed to us an interest in getting one.) Or could be JB is sincerely trying to get to all the facts. Regardless, I have no problem sending my “evidence??? to the email address and am confident it will land on that lawyer’s desk. I am interested in his legal opinion as long as I’m not footing the bill.  Kevin asks why send it to JB? Makes sense to me – sounds like the lawyer is either doing this as a favor to JB or maybe for a flat fee, as long as JB does the research-gathering and sends it to him for a one-time look-see. Otherwise, if we sent a stream of email directly to the lawyer, it could rack up a bigger tab for JB or a bigger freebie commitment than the lawyer was wanting to make. Those are my rational deductions. Now, onto more FACTS, for which all my hard evidence is being forwarded to Mr. J.B. Wingo.
                                                           -Racism-
This response is directed at Kathryn and her posts on this thread. I have known Amylee spanning 3 decades and worked the same place as her in the past. You state that Amylee is “hurting Native American women.??? Amylee IS a Native American woman!   YOU are hurting her! That you attempt to deny her her birthright, based on hearsay, heresy, her-say makes you the racist.  That you presume the right to speak on behalf of all Native American women, without their consensus, while you yourself are white, also makes you the racist. We each have our own voices. You are acting out of a delusional sense of presumptuous entitlement by declaring we have been somehow hurt by Amylee – that’s racist, condescending and harms all people.  You take it upon yourself to “protect??? Native and other women – as though women needed your paternalistic ego-driven interference. You wrongly declare Amylee only taught “white women??? – solely based on who was in attendance where you or your white informants were! How ignorant. Or arrogant. (Both being ingredients in racism.) I know better – I was at more than one Native community where she was asked to share with Native Women. I also crossed the border with her and saw her ID’s.

By the way, the big Iriqouis “secrets??? Amylee shared with white women? It was the same thing the Iriquois women have been openly sharing with U.S. women since the days of suffrage – about how to take responsibility for yourselves and how to gain equality, not by whining for it, but by earning it and living it! And the “shields??? thing – the shields she talked about were metaphorical – like skin, ozone, topsoil, forest canopies – and how those “shields??? of nature have been compromised and it’s up to humans to act responsibly to mend them. You can read about that in Profiles In Wisdom (just not in Rose’s hallucinatory edition – see “Proof??? below). She used a modern leather artwork “shield??? that had a story painted on it (not an imitation ceremonial or historical Plains shield) just to illustrate the fables she told. Through those fables she helped others find their own strong and moral voices. That’s all. There was never any “charge for ceremony??? (“obscene??? in Amylee’s eyes) and never any “local groups??? you mention, and so there were never any “white men??? to be “left in charge??? of those nonexistent “groups!??? Ludicrous! Those are your “big sacred secrets’ you are thinking she “co-opted.???  So where on this site is the official mandate issued by any tribe, Native community, traditional government asking you to take it upon yourself, to go after someone, on their tribal behalf by calling her names with legal implications (“liar??? “fraud??? “racist???) for teaching respect for the environment, and for others and for oneself, and to teach it for free? No where do I see on this site a request by Iriquois women for you to try to ruin someone’s reputation with your lies. That presumptive act on your part is racist. You do not speak for Native American women. You do not speak for the Iriquois. You do not speak for me.   Stop it.
           
MatoSiWin - You talk about “putting out the fires??? caused by new agers – you should ask Amylee how many fires caused by new agers she tried to extinguish! (I think that’s why she retired from public life – “burned out??? over new age nonsense. At least that’s what one of the books she’s in implies.) Example: about Amylee appearing at the Bear Tribe – lots of good people came and went, like R. Carlos Nakai, Dr. Eunice Baumann, and many, many others! When Amylee learned women were abused by so-called Elders there, she took a stand and said she could not give women the false impression it was safe there, by virtue of her being there too. She also asked them to not offer co-ed sweat lodges. She asked them to stop calling those lodges and ceremonies “traditional.??? When they declined, she made her courageous statement (she was still young to be talking that way to anyone older) and respectfully left – then she took out ads in magazines asking women who had been abused at any kind of so-called spiritual gathering to contact her and the professionals she worked with if they wanted support. I was one. That was in the late 1980’s or early1990! What were YOU doing back then?  Is that how Amylee hurt women, Kathryn? By going to the same gathering you were at? And then proactively and respectfully addressing a serious problem as soon as she learned about it? Is it any wonder she wanted to “retire??? from public life!
                                     
                                                  - A Rose to the occasion -

To Southwest Skeptic – You are so young – about same age as my granddaughter. You need to slow down – this is an obsession you started. IF you are the same one who took Amylee’s photo (which my husband photographed) from a copyrighted site and used it to set up fake online accounts in her name to make her look ‘new-age’ that is a crime. ( IP checking works both ways, Rose.)  IF you are the one who put her name on porn sites to make it look like she was into that – that is a crime too. It was not Amylee but someone who tried to slander Amylee in a post that got taken off Native Tube - and no one there was laughing. (I am forwarding a copy of Native Tube’s chastisement, and the IP they provided as the slanderer’s, as “evidence??? for the law-boy.) The Michigan women forum does not criticize her in any way. Post the link here if you think it does. Further, you have stated that she was “posting??? on and then “laughed off??? the Indian Tribe Forum link: http://forum.americanindiantribe.com/viewtopic.php?t=6077&start=0 but there is no evidence she EVER even posted there! That link you provide to American Indian tribe’s forum doesn’t say she “posted??? but that she instead (may have – maybe it was you!) privately EMAILED one of the posters! Just HOW MANY ERRORS is a poster here allowed before a Moderator or Administrator pulls the plug and apologizes?

You now add “plagiarist??? to your slanderous and undocumented accusations against Amylee. Again, no proof. Just more RRC ancient echoes. Then you advertise in these very posts, YOUR alleged crime of multiple copyright infringements in addition to the likely lies you submitted to bait Native leaders to reply. Again, you are so young…

SouthWest, you state: “She also claims to be the only daughter of an only daughter, yet her sisters, neices and aunts have a different opinion.???
Now I know you are either barking up the wrong family tree or delusional. If she ever had birth “Sisters and Nieces??? and if she still has living Aunts, please let her know who these mythic beings are! It would lighten the grief of believing she is an orphan now. Also, speaking from my first hand knowledge, I am certain Amylee would not know how to “upload??? any obituaries and I am fairly certain she would deem the internet an inappropriate venue for such intimate tributes.

                                                        - Very Important -

I further concur with JB, as you  (Rose/Southwest skeptic) grossly misquoted Amylee about the radio show. The most memorable to me was when you posted here that Amylee
“claimed to be fluent in the Iroquois language, but she couldn’t translate her Indian name “She who catches rainbows??? because every word is a sentence and it would be quite a long run on sentence to combine.???
That is a lie.  And, a run-on sentence. Actually two lies in one run-on sentence. Both being bold-faced LIES YOU created. She wasn’t even talking about her name – she was asked about synonyms for the “broad and evolving multiple definitions of a modern day medicine woman??? (there’s the transcript, Rose. Read it and weep). You clearly did not want to hear those words, as that shoots down your whole campaign against her - which has as its basis YOUR LIE that she ever claimed to be a “traditional medicine woman FOR or TO any tribe!??? She works with animals! THAT’S what she said on the radio! She’s a ‘modern-day medicine woman’ to animals! NOT to any tribe or people!
(Be ashamed. Be very ashamed.)
You then beg us to believe you with your next pathetic plea:
Nothing I posted was “deceptive??? and I don’t know how anyone could “defame??? the great medicine womon (sic) with her own words.  Nothing was misrepresented in my posts. I quoted AmyLee directly.??? You may “hear with your own ears,??? and “read with your own eyes,??? but they are twisted beyond believability. YOU are the ONLY person who ever “heard??? Amylee say your translation.
(You’re on a slippery slope, Rose. If someone here offers you some help, please take it.)

The letter from Paul Spicer was in direct response to the false information supplied him by SouthwestSkeptic. The things she wrongfully accused Amylee of doing are things Amylee herself would also label “fraudulent and inappropriate.??? She never did any of them during the 3 decades I knew her. How does anyone “prove??? to your satisfaction that someone never did something! Impossible! But just as impossible then will be producing credible “proof??? she ever did things like “sell Wolf Clan Memberships!???  (She’s not even Wolf Clan herself!!!!) Amylee never condoned the “Wolf Clan??? activities of Twylah Nitsch who spawned a lot of “instant Wolf Clan members.??? Twy was an elder, and out of respect Amylee would not have publicly spoken against those activities, but she sure never endorsed their goings-on either. This whole thread is wrong in too many ways. With Amylee’s proven track record against cultural appropriation and racism, she should have been invited to be an advisor to your forum, not targeted by it!

                                                        - More Evidence -

By the way, Rose, I see you posted :
 
Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2008, 09:20:50 pm »   
 
“I got a list of Mohawk/Seneca tribal leaders and wrote/emailed them.
The first response I recieved was from Chief Paul Spicer
He gave me permission to post his response to my inquiries:
….As more come in I'll post them.??? (wink)
Then on  April 9th, 2008, at another forum, not so surprisingly hosted by RRC  mouthpieces, you claim:
 Re: Information about Amylee please!

???I contacted every tribal leader of the Seneca and Mohawk Nation, and they all bascially said, she's offensive to them and they don't consider her to be a medicine woman or a representative of their spiritual beliefs. This is what Chief Paul Spicer had to say. He gave me permission to post his thoughts….???

The obvious question here is, Rose, where are all the other alleged replies from all the other Iroquois communities that “all basically said she’s offensive to them….???  You have set yourself up to now have to produce the very evidence you claim to have received. Where is a copy of the EXACT letter you sent them? Where are all the “replies??? you state you have received as a matter of FACT?  And why did you not return to this thread to “post them,??? “as more come in,??? as you so promised, punctuated with your “wink???? It’s been 7 months….Post them –Here – Now - if they exist beyond your perverse wishes.

                        -To Dan and SuperDog –

 “Dan??? – I did like your comments. I wish you could have met Amylee in person. I think you’d have liked her and I know she’d have understood and respected your opinions as being a part of your heart and not your ego.

SuperDog – you may be this site’s sole redeeming voice of reason. About the disappearing “digital footprint??? – the internet does change – by the nano-second. But, I’m also betting some people who misrepresented Amylee simply “corrected their errors??? though I don’t know who brought those errors to their attention. – I am also wagering that THIS entire thread will be held accountable for its libelous errors and eventually do the same thing – disappear. I don’t see that Amylee actually has her own digital footprint, other than one posted review she made elsewhere in support of a traditional elder – otherwise, it’s all other people writing about her and possibly quoting her or, like Miss Skeptic, misquoting her or the frauds who set up accounts in her name, using her stolen image. (“Digital mis-prints!??? instead of digital footprints).


                                                      - A Challenge -
Anybody here want to take over Amylee’s  “spiritual group project??? she asked her last audience to do? Go to ebay every week (as some of us have done for the past 12 years) and type in the word “squaw.??? Then one by one email those couple hundred sellers with the note Amylee wrote for us to tactfully correct their misuse of the word, and ask them to change their listing and to then educate others about it being so offensive, derogatory and racist. So much for how Amylee “hurts Native American women!???

Barnaby – If you ever go to Tehanetorens’ (Ray Fadden’s) Museum in Onchiota, you will see a photo of Ray sitting next to his longtime good friend and MUTUAL supporter, Amylee, with a hawk standing on a stump between them. Ray’s the one with silver streaks in his flaming red hair. (It was a long time ago. My husband; again the  photographer.) Amylee directed the surgical team which removed and replaced the injured hawk’s cornea – deemed to be one of the most difficult medical procedures in animal veterinary medicine - that makes her a “modern day medicine woman??? (and hero) in my book, and in many other credible professionals’ estimation. You were saying?


-   The Proof –

Steven McFadden’s interview of AmyLee, like all interviews, never contains poor edits or errors, and interviewees always know who else is going to make the final cut and appear in the author’s book – right? Wrong. Regardless, go to the link Rose/Southwest Skeptic herself posts and remember her own words as they now come back to shame her here and conclusively demonstrate how she manipulates facts. SHE STATES:

???Anyone who wants to can check out the book I referenced here:
https://millennium.marmot.org:444/search~S93?/dNew+Age+movement+--+Handbooks,+manuals,+etc./dnew+age+movement+handbooks+manuals+etc/-3%2C-1%2C0%2CB/frameset&FF=dnew+age+movement+north+america&1%2C1%2C
…Some of the other alleged elders are: Dhyani Ywahoo, Twyla Nitsch, Sun Bear, Oh Shinnah and Hunbatz Men.  The contents refer to AmyLee as “Massapowa for the people of the morning light.???

For anyone here actually interested in FACTS you will see in the online table of contents of Rose’s own posted link - that Rose has once again erred.   AmyLee is NOT referred to as “Massapowau for the People of the Morning Light.??? That is the NEXT chapter’s title and about a Wampanoag man! (How could you make that mistake from also having your own “hard copy,??? Rose?) I suspect much of what she has misrepresented here is due to misreading and mishearing. Given the sheer number of errors she has made yet vehemently defends, I reasonably suspect Rose may have a learning or perceptual problem. (At least that would make a good defense in a courtroom.) (The rest of you? No such excuses.) Other comments by her are clearly fraudulent and then there is guilt by omission – such as failing to mention that the revered Elders, Tom Porter and Eunice Baumann-Nelson and Lorraine Canoe were also interviewed for the same book. She also fails to note that Amylee seemed embarrassed and apologetic to be in a book about “Native Elders??? when she herself said in the book’s interview, that she was clearly not one. (Did you catch that Kathryn – applying it to your January 30, 2008  comment that Amylee referred to herself, “claiming to be an Elder??? several years prior to this book’s publication! It never happened. Insert apology here:                                   .)

I could follow each of Rose’s so-called excerpts from the book and re-type the actual words that appear in the text. Example, Rose’s rendition: “Grandma zapped cancer off a man’s face with her laserlike hands.???(McFadden, p. 183)
While the actual text reads, from a little girl’s memory,  “…a big ugly growth – it wasn’t really a wart, it was probably a cancer of some sort….??? BIG Difference Rose.

And adding her own false editorials as though they were in the book: “Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve (A non-profit 501 c 3 ) her medicine place…??? (McFadden,  p. 181) The actual TEXT does NOT say ANYWHERE that the former Nature Preserve was “(A non-profit 501 c 3)??? – that is entirely Rose’s inserted fabrication, fraudulently passed off as someone else’s words – complete with deceptive legal implications - anyone else seeing a disturbing trend here? 

 And this one:
“… told him to be grateful to the cancer for teaching him …???
(McFadden, p. 183) The word “cancer??? is entirely Rose’s word choice.
How is the reader supposed to know – especially when she places QUOTE MARKS around it! I could go on for the entirety of her alleged “quotes.??? Want more, or are as you nauseated too?                   
 I can’t resist – just one more, I’ll swallow hard :
“The medicine of the shields will work only in the woodlands.???
(McFadden, p. 194) Again with the quote marks. Well, only if you are quoting yourself, Rose. No one else said such a thing! For anyone with a copy of the book, if you care to follow along, you will see this sad woman’s attempt to be her own little super-hero squirrel, cracking imaginary nuts, one at a time (as she boasts on her own website and on her choice of logo ID when posting here). This is profoundly disturbing, and that anyone believes her, well, that’s just lazy slander by proxy.

Rose concludes, “Is AmyLee responsible for allowing her picture to be published in this book along with all the bogus claims she made in print?  This is HER interview with HER own words. The book was published in 1991 and it’s still available online. How do you explain her ridiculous claims now?
Better question, Rose, how do you explain falsifying quotes, attempting to further defame Amylee with your libelous claims now? To hand your own earlier pronouncement about Amylee back to you: (she) “…makes it so easy to disprove her bogus claims it’s like she wants to get caught.??? Consider yourself caught, Rose, and on your own many jagged and inescapable thorns. Now somebody do the right thing, and help this young woman!

THIS is precisely the kind of sloppy research that is on this whole site. It’s as though someone dropped several dozen jigsaw puzzles on the internet and all you super-sleuths are trying to make ONE pre-conceived damning picture out of the fragmented non-fitting pieces. Even if you cut corners and force the mismatched pieces into one picture – it’s still doomed as two-dimensional and hardly representative of real live Truth.

Trying to insert FACTS into this hostile territory is exhausting, but a slander campaign so mis-targeted deserves a few knowledgeable people who will stand up for Truth.  (You’re welcome, Amylee, wherever you are.) I now take my leave -  as Kathryn and cadre yell after me the only way you know how to handle someone with a different opinion based on first-hand facts, and now irrefutably demonstrated evidence, which trumps all this posted fictitious prattle. I hear your railing rant echoing at my back: “Prove it!??? “Troll!??? “Shill!??? “Racist!??? “Fraud!??? “Libelor!??? “Liar!??? “Duped Stupid Woman!??? 

(Look in the mirror.)





Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Defend the Sacred on September 20, 2008, 04:24:40 pm
You state that Amylee is “hurting Native American women.??? Amylee IS a Native American woman!   YOU are hurting her! That you attempt to deny her her birthright, based on hearsay, heresy, her-say makes you the racist.

From what I've seen, Amylee is not NDN. And even if she were, the evidence I've seen indicates she's a fraud and a ceremony seller with a history of lying to, and financially and spiritually exploiting, both Native and non-Native women. To think it's somehow racist to discuss someone's actions, or that a person of any race should be immune to being discussed by a person of another race, is just ignorant. That sort of attitude is one that many of the frauds hide behind.

When outsiders to a culture try to tell people of another culture how to run their lives or their ceremonies, that is racist. But that is not what people here are doing. What people here are doing is going after those who rip off and misrepresent traditional cultures. We also expose those who use a (real or fabricated) connection to a traditional culture to harm or exploit seekers.

We are a multi-racial, multi-cultural community here, and this also holds true for my personal life. If all the people I know were not supposed to talk about family and friends of different cultural backgrounds, or not allowed to call them on their behaviour if they do something inappropriate by our shared agreements of what is and isn't acceptable behaviour... uh, yeah, that just doesn't work. That sort of thing gives free reign to abusers.

I find it fascinating that you think I'm "presum[ing] to speak on behalf of all Native American women". I've done nothing of the sort. Though if others here (or who know me in person), women or men whose identities and histories are actually known, feel I have overstepped, please tell me. But the opinions of strangers on the Internet don't really matter to me, especially when they're strangers who defend frauds.

I guess it's possible Amylee has done some good things as well. Most people have, even the most twisted of frauds. But I haven't heard about it. Thing is, I left the newage circles Amylee runs in decades ago.

Quote
You wrongly declare Amylee only taught “white women???

I only saw and heard of white women attending her events, yes.

Quote
– solely based on who was in attendance where you or your white informants were!

Interesting. So now the women she has exploited financially, who she sold a fake sense of being "Native American Shield Carriers" are "white informants." Fascinating.

Quote
there was never any “charge for ceremony??? (“obscene??? in Amylee’s eyes) and never any “local groups??? you mention, and so there were never any “white men??? to be “left in charge??? of those nonexistent “groups!???

*shrugs* Maybe she didn't tell you everything. I know women who were heavily solicited for the groups. The white man was a newager in the D.C./Maryland area. IIRC, he ran a newage store there. I don't know if the group ever got off the ground there, as the women I know weren't interested. Even the really newage ones were put off by her wanting to have a man run it.

Quote
for teaching respect for the environment, and for others and for oneself, and to teach it for free?

Oh, I don't think anyone is accusing her of teaching "for free."
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Barnaby_McEwan on September 20, 2008, 08:11:05 pm
Amylee IS a Native American woman!

And we should just take your word for that? Her claimed tribal affiliation changes over time. No one seems to claim her as a relative. Even if she is native, she's violated community mores in a hugely offensive way.

Quote
So where on this site is the official mandate issued by any tribe, Native community, traditional government asking you to take it upon yourself, to go after someone, on their tribal behalf...

This site is not operated on any tribe's behalf and does not need to be: no one needs permission to do the right thing. We're not here to "go after" people. We're here to protect people from the likes of your friend.
           
Quote
SuperDog – you may be this site’s sole redeeming voice of reason. About the disappearing “digital footprint??? – the internet does change – by the nano-second. But, I’m also betting some people who misrepresented Amylee simply “corrected their errors??? though I don’t know who brought those errors to their attention.

Or maybe she's afraid the IRS will start sniffing around.

Quote
Barnaby – If you ever go to Tehanetorens’ (Ray Fadden’s) Museum in Onchiota, you will see a photo of Ray sitting next to his longtime good friend and MUTUAL supporter, Amylee, with a hawk standing on a stump between them.

If I ever get the opportunity I will ask the Fadden family how much they knew about her when that photo was taken. If they consider her someone who helps animals, great. However people who construct fantasy worlds in which they're super-special are rarely suited to wildlife work. I've seen it before; the animals brought to them are not as important as the star of the show, and they pay the price of their keeper's vanity.

Quote
Amylee directed the surgical team which removed and replaced the injured hawk’s cornea...

That's a vague statement: did she just say, "Do the procedure: I can pay" down the phone to a veterinary surgeon? Who was in this surgical team? Where was the procedure done? Was anything published in Veterinary Ophthalmology or a similar scientific journal?

Quote
Steven McFadden’s interview of AmyLee, like all interviews, never contains poor edits or errors, and interviewees always know who else is going to make the final cut and appear in the author’s book – right? Wrong.

Oh, I see: it's someone else's fault. I've ordered copies of both editions, published nine years apart. That would be plenty of time for your friend to contact the author with corrections.

Quote
She also fails to note that Amylee seemed embarrassed and apologetic to be in a book about “Native Elders??? when she herself said in the book’s interview, that she was clearly not one.

If she was that embarrassed she could have just refused to be interviewed.

Quote
And adding her own false editorials as though they were in the book: “Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve (A non-profit 501 c 3 ) her medicine place…??? (McFadden,  p. 181) The actual TEXT does NOT say ANYWHERE that the former Nature Preserve was “(A non-profit 501 c 3)??? – that is entirely Rose’s inserted fabrication, fraudulently passed off as someone else’s words – complete with deceptive legal implications - anyone else seeing a disturbing trend here?

Yes, in your words. So Rose didn't edit her post as if she's a sub-editor on the NY Times. The book may not say that, I haven't yet seen it, but the IRS website says your friend's place is registered as a 501(c)3 non-profit (http://www.irs.gov/app/pub-78/search.do?nameSearchTypeStarts=false&names=NATIVE+AMERICAN+INDIAN+RESOURCE+CENTER&nameSearchTypeAll=true&city=&state=OH&country=USA&deductibility=all&dispatchMethod=search&submitName=Search), under the name "Native American Indian Resource Center, Inc.". Rose did not fabricate that.

Two other sites

http://www.charity-charities.org/charityinfo.php?ID=625853&page=1

http://www.nonprofitdata.com/44699/native-american-indian-resource-center-inc.phtml?&cmd=341469934

list this organisation's location as Hawk Hollow Private Nature Preserve, in Tippecanoe, OH. The same address as in the book. I don't believe it's a 'former' preserve; I suspect your friend's recent disappearance from commercial websites, and the frantic interventions we've seen here from you and her other supporters, have something to do with this non-profit of hers.

Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows - From the Horses Mouth
Post by: SouthwestSkeptic on September 21, 2008, 02:06:14 am
 ::)

Miss Swartz,

Your pathetic attempt at a fluffy degree in communications at Kent State hasn’t served you very well Miss Swartz.  Perhaps you should have taken some pre-law or logic courses?

The quotation marks indicate that they were taken from the text that was cited.

It’s permissible to insert parenthetical information in parentheses to add important information that the reader needs to know. The Native American Indian Resource Center in Tippecanoe OH is indeed listed as a non-profit 501 3 c. It’s easy to research them on guidestar.
http://www.guidestar.org

Miss Swartz is currently requesting online donations.

Link to Guidestar 'donate' page (https://www.networkforgood.org/donation/MakeDonation.aspx?ORGID2=34-1469934&source=GS&cmpgn=DNT&vlrStratCode=o24HbTWv0NM6fBjKW9vJr7jgcfoVCfz54M0639nXhnMhI0HGeCvrd49fOq95iAH2)

This is now the business of every American citizen who pays taxes.

I typed the post quickly from a poor photocopy of the book.   There are 14 insufferable pages of AmyLee’s pretentious drivel. I wanted to spare the forum from having to read through it all to get to the relevant information about her fraudulent, published claims, but I have NO PROBLEM making it available for everyone to read and critique for themselves.

 Unlike you, I’m concerned with getting at the truth and not distracting people from it with nitpicky details that don’t address the crucial issues of unlawful fraud and misrepresentation here.

To show the world your true character, I’ve scanned the great AmyLee’s interview in Profiles in Wisdom into my geocities site so everyone can get their info right from the horse’s mouth:

http://www.geocities.com/southwestskeptic/ProfilesInWisdom.html


This way interested parties can access to it faster without actually purchasing the tripe.
It’s so ridiculous I think it might give the people who frequent this forum a good chuckle.

Some of the words didn’t scan very well, but you can get the idea of Miss Swartz’s enormous ego.

Oh yeah, before you get your Fake NDN granny pants in a knot over copyright, the way the hucksters like to do, I copied less than 10% of the ‘work’ and is being cited here under fair use.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html

What is most striking to me is that like most flim flam artists, proponents of pseudo-science and other BULLSHIT artists, you pick at typos or trivial grammatical flaws or errors in form rather than honestly addressing the substance of the arguments presented to you. Big red flag there.

What about the genealogy? Publically available. Easy to trace.
You didn’t respond to that?

The subtitle of the McFadden book is, Native Elders speak about the Earth. If Miss Swartz did not deliberately intend to misrepresent herself as a Native Elder, then why did she allow her interview to appear in this book with this subtitle?  She’s had seventeen years to correct the error. Why wait this long?

What about all the Native American women in Hart Michigan who challenged the great AmyLee’s authenticity for decades and prompted her untimely ‘retirement’ at the ripe old age of what 41?
Andrea Smith, Amoja Three Rivers  et. al.

Do you really expect us to believe that hundreds of people misunderstood Miss Swartz in the exact same manner and simultaneously published the exact same fraudulent Native American pedigree about her without deviating a bit?

We’re not as gullible or desperate to shed our whiteness as Miss Swartz target audience.

If, as you imply, Miss Swartz was in fact misunderstood or misquoted, then how do you explain the fact that she has been so perfectly misunderstood and misquoted by so many people in such a perfectly faithful way?
If any ‘misunderstanding’ had occurred, wouldn’t one person say she was one thing and another person say something totally different? How do you explain the near perfect agreement that Miss Swartz was representing herself as an “Iroquois Medicine woman??? selling the right to “birth a shield????

I’m still waiting for a reasonable explanation and an accurate transcript of that radio broadcast.  I guess I’ll have to contact your employer, again to get some answers.

While I re-read the chapter, I noticed something.  On pages 194 and 195 --  as anyone can see --  Miss Swartz brags about how she sent out 200 invitations to her shields scam and 1000 women responded.  According to the pamphlets she passed out at the Michigan Womyn’s (sic) Music Festival, in the 1980s faithfully archived in special collections, it costs $300.00 to be entitled to build that shield.

At $300.00 per sucker multiplied by 1000 suckers, that means that Miss Swartz took in at least $300,000.00. That’s well over the allowed amount to avoid the responsibility to report that income to the IRS in 1989.  Where are the 990s?  I’ve discovered that thiese little details are something the IRS likes to hear about from concerned citizens.

You can erase some of your lies from the internet, but the pamphlets you passed out all over Michigan and Ohio are still in existence, you forgot to get them all back and destroy them. Undoubtedly, there are also some pretty angry women out there who attended that event who would not be please to learn they were taken.

There’s no record of the nonprofit Native American Indian Resource center of Tippecanoe Ohio ever filing the MANDATORY income tax information.
That’s not good.  Not good at all.

I was chatting with the nice people at the IRS just before posting this.  They’re such kind, helpful, positive people and intensely interested in chatting any concerned citizen about any of their concerns about nonprofit fraud.

Thanks everyone for your helpful suggestions to contact the IRS and the tribal leaders who could prosecute Miss Swartz under FEDERAL LAW are being acted on right now. I would encourage everyone in this forum is angered by the behavior of Miss Swartz and her shills to contact the IRS and report this 501c 3 fraud.  They can contact me if they need copies to send along with their complaint.
Once again, thanks for being obsessed with having the last word.  It helps to keep the spotlight on this fraud.

Also, if there is anyone who is an enrolled member of any Mohawk or Seneca tribe, please contact me about pursing legal action against Miss Swartz through the federal statutes.

I also think Kent State should know about the kind of charlatans they employ. If anybody has contact info for whoever hired her to teach American Indian studies please email me.

My site may be down for a while because I exceeded my data transfer limit, but it will be back up
by tomorrow.


 :-*


Rose


I know the scans are poor, but I have to work this weekend.
I’ll re-do them when I get a chance.  If you need copies right away, email me and I can send you better scans.


Barnaby's note: thanks for all your work Rose. I've shortened the link to the 'donate' page so this thread fits better in browser windows.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows - Federal Statutes
Post by: SouthwestSkeptic on September 21, 2008, 02:19:08 am
Any tribally enrolled Mohawk or Seneca people may be interested in the Federal Statute regarding willful impersonation of a Native American Indian for the purpose of selling goods or services.

Title 25 of the US Code as currently published by the US Government reflects the laws passed by Congress as of Jan. 3, 2007, and it is this version that is published here.

" A person specified in subsection (c) of this section may, in a civil action in a court of competent jurisdiction, bring an action against a person who offers or displays for sale or sells a good, with or without a Government trademark, in a manner that falsely suggests it is Indian produced, an Indian product, or the product of a particular Indian or Indian tribe or Indian arts and crafts organization, resident within the United States, to... "

(a) Injunctive or equitable relief; damages
A person specified in subsection (c) of this section may, in a civil action in a court of competent jurisdiction, bring an action against a person who, directly or indirectly, offers or displays for sale or sells a good, with or without a Government trademark, in a manner that falsely suggests it is Indian produced, an Indian product, or the product of a particular Indian or Indian tribe or Indian arts and crafts organization, resident within the United States, to—
(1) obtain injunctive or other equitable relief; and
(2) recover the greater of—
(A) treble damages; or
(B) in the case of each aggrieved individual Indian, Indian tribe, or Indian arts and crafts organization, not less than $1,000 for each day on which the offer or display for sale or sale continues.
For purposes of paragraph (2)(A), damages shall include any and all gross profits accrued by the defendant as a result of the activities found to violate this subsection.
(b) Punitive damages; attorney’s fee
In addition to the relief specified in subsection (a) of this section, the court may award punitive damages and the costs of suit and a reasonable attorney’s fee.
(c) Persons who may initiate civil actions
(1) A civil action under subsection (a) of this section may be commenced—
(A) by the Attorney General of the United States upon request of the Secretary of the Interior on behalf of an Indian who is a member of an Indian tribe or on behalf of an Indian tribe or Indian arts and crafts organization;
(B) by an Indian tribe on behalf of itself, an Indian who is a member of the tribe, or on behalf of an Indian arts and crafts organization; or
(C) by an Indian arts and crafts organization on behalf of itself, or by an Indian on behalf of himself or herself.
(2) Any amount recovered pursuant to this section shall be paid to the individual Indian, Indian tribe, or Indian arts and crafts organization, except that—
(A) in the case of paragraph (1)(A), the Attorney General may deduct from the amount recovered—
(i) the amount for the costs of suit and reasonable attorney’s fees awarded pursuant to subsection (b) of this section and deposit the amount of such costs and fees as a reimbursement credited to appropriations currently available to the Attorney General at the time of receipt of the amount recovered; and
(ii) the amount for the costs of investigation awarded pursuant to subsection (b) of this section and reimburse the Board the amount of such costs incurred as a direct result of Board activities in the suit; and
(B) in the case of paragraph (1)(B), the amount recovered for the costs of suit and reasonable attorney’s fees pursuant to subsection (b) of this section may be deducted from the total amount awarded under subsection (a)(2) of this section.
(d) Definitions
As used in this section—
(1) the term “Indian??? means any individual who is a member of an Indian tribe; or for the purposes of this section is certified as an Indian artisan by an Indian tribe;
(2) subject to subsection (f) of this section, the terms “Indian product??? and “product of a particular Indian tribe or Indian arts and crafts organization??? has the meaning given such term [1] in regulations which may be promulgated by the Secretary of the Interior;
(3) the term “Indian tribe??? means—
(A) any Indian tribe, band, nation, Alaska Native village, or other organized group or community which is recognized as eligible for the special programs and services provided by the United States to Indians because of their status as Indians; or
(B) any Indian group that has been formally recognized as an Indian tribe by a State legislature or by a State commission or similar organization legislatively vested with State tribal recognition authority; and
(4) the term “Indian arts and crafts organization??? means any legally established arts and crafts marketing organization composed of members of Indian tribes.
(e) Severability
In the event that any provision of this section is held invalid, it is the intent of Congress that the remaining provisions of this section shall continue in full force and effect.
(f) Regulations
Not later than 180 days after November 9, 2000, the Board shall promulgate regulations to include in the definition of the term “Indian product??? specific examples of such product to provide guidance to Indian artisans as well as to purveyors and consumers of Indian arts and crafts, as defined under this Act.

I think the Mohawk/Seneca people are entitled to a share of the money coming into this "Resource center" since it is being collected under false pretenses.  The name of the charity is "NATIVE AMERICAN INDIAN RESOURCE CENTER INC"

https://www.networkforgood.org/donation/MakeDonation.aspx?ORGID2=34-1469934&source=GS&cmpgn=DNT

They claim they're not required to file 990s
http://www.guidestar.org/pqShowGsReport.do?partner=networkforgood&ein=34-1469934


AmyLee has made a representation of one or more material facts that can easily be proven to be false, she had to have known those representations were false and she made those false representations with the intention that the public would rely on it to make their decisions about donating to her fraudulent 501 3 c
Sound like a prima facia case for fraud to me

Any tribal attorneys out there?


Rose
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Min Toro on September 22, 2008, 01:07:21 pm

Pssst! Those of you watching this farce from home, care to venture a guess which of our two anti-heroes will be the first to discover one of their legally loaded and substantial errors, captured in their own supplied links? Care to guess how they will try to bend and misshapen THAT puzzle piece to fit into the picture they are failing to manufacture?


Will it be Rose, the 20 something college student tenaciously tending her first ever initiated NAFPS Fraud thread? Or, will it be Barnaby, the European Administrator who is egging her on by adding his own errors, encouragement, and vitriolic input to the folly?

Let’s watch, shall we….

Rose inserted, into a quote from the book, her erroneous comment that Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve is a 501 (c) 3.
That was, unfortunately, yet another predictable miscall on her part. One with consequences. Barnaby rushes in (as fools often do) to her rescue with his non sequitur comments and his outdated links.

Now comes Rose’s latest rebuttal in defense of her aforementioned error, still unwilling or unable to see it although she spells it out for everyone else to see (her insults have been omitted):

ROSE: “It’s permissible to insert parenthetical information in parentheses to add important information that the reader needs to know. The Native American Indian Resource Center in Tippecanoe OH is indeed listed as a non-profit 501 3 c. It’s easy to research them on guidestar. http://www.guidestar.org???

Very good, Rose. However, the address for the Native American Indian Resource Center, Inc. is NOT listed as “Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve??? in the GuideStar link YOU posted. To repeat my original issue, YOU are again being challenged on the earlier FALSE statement you posted below:

ROSE: “Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve (A non-profit 501 c 3 ) her medicine place in Tippecanoe Ohio.???
(McFadden,  p. 181)

Nice parentheses. However, the information you fabricated in between the parentheses merely substantiates two poster’s assertion that you make more mistakes than sense.  Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve is NOT, as you earlier and wrongly posted: “(A non-profit 501 c 3).??? You made yet another huge mistake with looming legal implications. You defiantly repeat that mistake yet again. And ever-helpful Barnaby unwittingly hands you your dose of cyber-cyanide. (What are good Administrators for!)

And you still can’t even see it! This is NOT a trivial little mistake made by an admittedly hurried typist working off of photo-copied text. This is fraud in the first order. ( If it helps to separate the two in your mind, visualize: “Resource Center???….hmmm…an office…with people… versus “Nature Preserve???….hmmm….trees, rocks, dirt.)

Barney tries to defend you and makes it (also predictably) worse (his insults omitted) (Rephrasing: What are Administrators good for!):

Barnaby: “…So Rose didn't edit her post as if she's a sub-editor on the NY Times. The book may not say that, I haven't yet seen it, but the IRS website says your friend's place is registered as a 501(c)3 non-profit, under the name "Native American Indian Resource Center, Inc.". Rose did not fabricate that.???

“My friend’s place??? -  referring to Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve via Rose’s fraudulent parenthetical post, is NOT as Barnaby wrongly states, “registered as a 501 (c) 3 nonprofit.???  Hawk Hollow IS listed there UNDER the name Native American Indian Resource Center, Inc. – quite literally!  The operative word here is UNDER – as in a PART OF THE PHYSICAL MAILING ADDRESS FOR THE NATIVE AMERICAN INDIAN RESOURCE CENTER, Inc. That’s how we do it here in the colonies – the second line of a three line address is the physical mailing address – NOT the name of the corporation. Your adamant assertion is like saying when the Red Cross has its mail delivered to their office in the Chrysler Building, that magically makes the Chrysler Building a nonprofit charitable organization too, “registered as a 501(c) 3, under the name ‘Red Cross!’???

WRONG! They are NOT interchangeable!  Similarly, most all of the misinformation Rose continues to post is not logically nor legally linked. “Guilt by presumed association??? seems to be the modus operandi here. Willfully falsifying evidence is a serious crime whereas ignorance has its own court of accountability. Again – give the kids a couple jigsaw puzzles and see what distorted fictional puzzle they can INVENT from the mismatched pieces!

Barnaby -  repeating - for unflinching clarity: WHAT ROSE FABRICATED was the lie that Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve was also a 501 (c) 3.  Go ahead, go to www.GuideStar.org and type in a search for “Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve??? – you will get NOTHING, including a “dba!???

Rose, please also note that for EVERY 501(c) 3,  GuideStar lists with or without the entity’s permission or even knowledge, the DONATION FORM – and in the case of the Native American Indian Resource Center, it is GuideStar soliciting donations TO the organization, NOT the group itself asking. Given the scant information listed therein it is unlikely that anyone made a donation to them via the GuideStar pitch to do so. Why don’t you ask them? Check their “Frequently Asked Questions??? section for FACTUAL VERIFICATION. (Facts! A new kind of fun!)

By the way Rose, care to tell us about that magical hat from which you pulled your earlier declaration that the Native American Indian Resource Center’s “funding is 100K!??? Clearly the legally filed documents do not support your claim. I am certain cyber-lawyer Rivera, and possibly the Native American Indian Resource Center’s corporate attorney, will be interested in your bold statement, among your growing list of other fantastical claims - unless, of course, you produce some actual evidence. The burden of proof is upon you Rose. And the clock is tick…tick….ticking. You have quite a lot of instant evidence to “produce??? to back up your lengthy list of allegations. (Helpful Hint: You may want to focus on the herb company as they are the most likely to sue first.)

Back to our loyal viewers: Just to make sure we’re all on the same fact sheet: Barnaby’s posted links clearly show Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve as the second ADDRESS line in a three line ADDRESS. Note, the city, state and zip code are the third line. Again -  The Native American Indian Resource Center, Inc. is the nonprofit. The FORMER physical road location, city, state, and zip code are not 501(c)3 nonprofit corporations.

Barnaby’s “proof??? becomes his “goof.???  His links are woefully outdated and even if accurate would only prove MY aforementioned point and not his:

http://www.charity-charities.org/charityinfo.php?ID=625853&page=1

http://www.nonprofitdata.com/44699/native-american-indian-resource-center-inc.phtml?&cmd=341469934

The Native American Indian Resource Center, Inc. - a 501(c)3 -  USED TO BE located at Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve. There is a new address for them listed at Guidestar.org – as Rose illustrates with the above evidence against herself.

Try sending mail to anyone at or in care of “Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve, Tippecanoe OH 44699,??? (the address in the links ala Barney) and I predict it will be returned to you as undeliverable. Go on. Try!

THAT is why I referred to it as the “FORMER Nature Preserve!??? Apparently the Native American Indian Resource Center still exists – at a new address. But mail to Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve is returned. I do not know if or where they moved over the past several years that I have been out of touch. My holiday greetings addressed to Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve, Tippecanoe OH 44699, were returned 2 or so YEARS AGO stamped by the United States Postal Service as “NO SUCH ADDRESS.??? I urge you – send them a letter addressed the way it is listed in the two links you post, Barn, and you will get that letter returned, providing the return address is readable. 


Now, Intelligent Readers: just multiply that error of Rose’s, compounded by Barnaby’s fact-fiddling-folly, times nearly every accusation they post, and you will have the real picture revealed: Their likely legally actionable jigsaw of nonsensical high jinks.

But my, hasn’t it been entertaining for you!


By the way,the big girl word Rose meant to use was “prima facie??? – but please, don’t judge her spelling at first glance.
          (That was a joke, Rose.)   (Wink)






Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Barnaby_McEwan on September 22, 2008, 07:44:27 pm
Pssst! Those of you watching this farce from home, care to venture a guess which of our two anti-heroes will be the first to discover one of their legally loaded and substantial errors, captured in their own supplied links?

Oh, enough of the dark legal threats. "Amylee's" dodgy non-profit has a corporate attorney? Sure it does. I guess she pays the fees with magic beans, since it's supposedly never brought in more than $25000 a year. So Amy's rented a PO box now, big deal. The elephant in the room is that her "Native American" non-profit has nothing to do with native people.

The tabby cat in this picture is you. The other one is everyone else:

(http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/funny-pictures-two-cats-bicker.jpg)

Quote
(What are good Administrators for!)

Banning lunatics.

Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: SouthwestSkeptic on September 24, 2008, 03:45:40 am
Just to show you a  good skeptic is even skeptical about her own skepticism...

Today, I made the ultimate sacrifice and listened to AmyLees radio interview again.
By the way I found several others that were much worse.

If you want to sue me, be my guest. I’ll make sure that lots and lots of investigative reporters cover the case and that they get every scrap of evidence me and my friends have collected.  Want to be the next female Ward Churchill, Amylee?  Go ahead. Make my day.

Gee this is a fun game!

You are offered mountains of proof that AmyLee is a fraud. You find it on the internet and you delete it, then you claim that I’m lying because it’s not there anymore.  Do you not understand the concept of screen shots or what?  I keep telling you. Nothing ever disappears permanently from the internet. Every time you delete something, you are pointing to where we should look closer.  Not very bright ageist old timer.  Your age also prevented you from checking out the younger sites like myspace and facebook where there’s lots of great dirt on the great Medicine Womon(sic).  You'll really want to sue them!


Exactly how long are we going to play this game?

What kind of “Medicine Woman??? would be this busy deleting so many things from the internet anyway?  What kind of medicine woman threatens to sue someone for “stalking??? just because they happen to find an obituary that proves she’s been living a lie for the past three decades? You ask for proof that Miss Swartz is a fraud. Then when you get it you scream “stalker.???  Pretty typical of most religious scam artists.

What kind of daughter deletes her mother’s obituary from the internet to cover up her lifetime of lies?

Honest people just don’t need to behave this way.

What a sad, pathetic life the great medicine woman must live.  Constantly trolling the internet in search of skeptics to silence.  Whenever does she find time to deposit all the money in the bank?

I would respond to the last post but it’s so incoherent I wouldn’t know where to begin. 

Hawk Hollow and The Native American Resource Center were used interchangeably and refered to by Miss Swartz on all her “Medicine Woman of the Iroquois??? websites.  All requests for money and claims about being non profit were deleted from the internet.  Suspicious innit?



Hawk Hollow was ASKING for $100,000.00 in funding this year. It was posted on the internet as a “non-profit’ with AmyLee’s name and Ohio address. The Native American Resource Center was also posted as a non profit with AmyLee’s name and very same Ohio address.  Coincidentally, website was deleted just after my initial query.  Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!  Don’t worry about it though, the authorities already had the information BEFORE she deleted it, making her look pretty guilty. Everything happens for a reason.

Anyway, she’s already onto a new non-profit scam.  NARC and HH are old history. Try to keep up.

I’ve decided to address each of your specious arguments one by one:
Let’s start with these two gems:

“ Ms. Rose Garcia (Southwest Skeptic) posted deceptively worded misrepresentation of AmyLee’s interview???

“I further concur with JB, as you  (Rose/Southwest skeptic) grossly misquoted Amylee about the radio show. The most memorable to me was when you posted here that Amylee
“claimed to be fluent in the Iroquois language, but she couldn’t translate her Indian name “She who catches rainbows??? because every word is a sentence and it would be quite a long run on sentence to combine.???
That is a lie.  And, a run-on sentence. Actually two lies in one run-on sentence. Both being bold-faced LIES YOU created. She wasn’t even talking about her name – she was asked about synonyms for the “broad and evolving multiple definitions of a modern day medicine woman???

The only thing that is broad and evolving about Miss Swartz are her many justifications and rationalizations for failing to prove that she have even one drop of native blood.  That’s a pretty sleazy trick to willfully and unlawfully misrepresent yourself as an “Iroquois Medicine Woman??? and then to claim the right to “evolve??? the definition and change it to “modern day??? meanings. How is that any different from LYING??????

Since you failed to produce a transcript I’ll have to revisit AmyLees bogus claims myself.

The interview is still online in the Indigenous Voices Radio

http://www.firstvoicesindigenousradio.org/program_archives.html

April 3, 2008
Amylee, Haudenausaunee Storyteller and Herbal Educator (www.hernativeroots.com) ...

For those of you who can’t get it to play right click go to properties copy this link and type this into your real player or whatever player you have and you can hear her stammer and evade the question yourself.

http://www.firstvoicesindigenousradio.org/audio_files/first_voices_4_3_2008.MP3

Go right to
27:23 – 28:55 if you have weak stomaches.

AmyLee tapped danced around the translation question for longer that a full minute an never gave a coherent response.

Tiokasin Ghosthorse: And we are talking with Amylee, She Who Catches the Rainbows, who is Iroquois uh uh Medicine woman. And uh I  I is there another word for medicine woman?  because it doesn’t really, really capture …
27:38

AmyLee: (Laughing) I understand. And and we fall back on that simply because uh in my lifetime  the medicine - medicine meaning good - woman oh --that’s good too –uh it embodies so many different things from herbalism to story telling to carrying on the old traditions in in ways that are appropriate for today to caring for animals in my case uh again I’m not a midwife but but in my grandmothers and great grandmother’s era it would include midwife uh midwifery
28:07
And and so there there is no English word for it and and ummm (laughing nervously) in the Iroquois language if you know our words each word is a sentence and it would a be quite a long run on sentence to combine  ,,, uh
She Who Catches the Rainbows I think sums it up the best because those rainbows are all the different colors  uh  not  just of  of catching the attention of all the different colors of people on the planet but catching all the colors of all the herbs in the springtime and um and the key to catching rainbows is that you can’t hold a rainbow for long you have to let it go and so I have a hard time myself  honing in on one static title of of … and you know that’s probably a good thing because as soon as we lable others or ourselves then we find that we are caught in that little box and that defines us or there forever after too.

To anyone who can stand to listen to this interview without vomiting, AmyLee is clearly evading Ghosthorse’s question.  At this point she’s stammering and stumbling over her words more than usual which usually indicates deception. If someone had a voice stress analyzer I’m sure it would blow up around 28:07
I’m so grateful for your pseudo-skepticism because when I listened to her bullshit again, she even sounds like a bigger fraud than the first time I managed to listen to this manure without losing my lunch.  I downloaded it for safe keeping.
 
If you get caught lying about your identity, dazzel 'em with bullshit! Everything she says about the “Iroquois language??? is pure unadulterated crap. Don’t worry I’ll send my own transcript along to the appropriate authorities so they can take whatever action they feel is appropriate.

Ghosthorse said three times “Amylee is the last medicine woman in her lineage born to Haudenausaunee parents??? and she never attempted to correct him. He referred to her as an Iroqouis Medicine woman several  times, but she never once made any attempt correct him – how do you explain that?  Did the space aliens edit the tape with energy waves from distant galaxies?

Well EXCUUUUUSSSEE me, my mind was so numbed by all of AmyLees nuage sewage that I couldn’t concentrate on her incoherent response.  After listening to this garbage four more times I now realize that instead of offering incoherent bullshit about not being able to translate her bullshit fake NDN name, the great Medicine Woman of the Iroquois was actually offering incoherent bullshit about not being able to translate the term “Medicine woman??? into what she erroneously refers to as the “Iroqouis language.???

Looking back, I made a tiny mistake and typed Fake NDN name instead of Medicine Woman. Big deal. A lie is still a lie. Anyone can hear for themselves from all the nervous laughter that Miss Swartz doesn’t want to answer Ghosthorse’s question.  Her circumlocution is typical of New Age frauds.  Your nit picking is too. Maybe she should plaigiarize me on that in her next great diatribe on how bad all those other new age frauds (her competition) are.

Maybe if Miss Swartz could learn to speak the English language properly instead of New Age speak we could all get to the truth a lot faster.

Don't you think an authentic “Medicine Woman??? would be more familiar with her native language – or at least know what it is!

Stay tuned, when I feel like it I’ll address the next lie and the next one and the next one ….


Rose

 ;D
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Cetan on September 24, 2008, 01:18:19 pm
This thread is getting old. The fact the she runs around calling herself She Who Catches the Rainbows should set off warning bells. And if that is her Native name given to her, well that is something that should only be used in ceremony, not anywhere else is another set of warning bells.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: sassy on September 24, 2008, 01:36:29 pm
I agree...ho hum....however, I did just listen to the radio archijve and, I I thought it was very well done! (But what do I know....)

Anyhoo, I trust Tiokasini Ghosthorse to know his gueasts. And amLYee and he were definity on the same page politiclly. I heard her rainbows name as a job descirption not her sacred name thats all.

Found this tidbit about the 5013c:

"For many years the corporate counsel for the Native American Indian Resource Center, Inc. has been and continues to be Brouse McDowell. www.Brouse.com .  This prestigious firm represents numerous high profile clients such as Goodrich,  Kent State University, The University of Akron, City of Stow, BP Products North America, Roadway Express, Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company…

Large and respected firms often extend their strong legal eagle wings to protect the legal interests of small nonprofits. Due to the revenue from their larger clients, they sometimes offer legal services to small charities pro bono or at reduced rates. On occasion, the goal of the nonprofit may hold special meaning to a firm’s partners or shareholders. Established and respected firms take seriously their role as protector to both small and large and profit and nonprofit corporations. Their role of ensuring their clients are informed so as to abide by and operate well within the state and federal statutes keeps them also attuned, with that eagle eye, to any changes which may affect their clients. In the event one of their smaller clients comes under fire, they dedicate and aggressively apply the same gamut of vast resources to protect them as they do their largest client. Again, it makes them feel good. It also is good PR, humanizing a field which is often demonized.
Advising and protecting the interests of nonprofit service organizations such as the Native American Indian Resource Center, Inc. also benefits a large firm by broadening their own diverse experiences in areas they might otherwise have never encountered. "

For whats it worth!

ho hummmm
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: sassy on September 24, 2008, 05:48:02 pm
maybe not a boring thread after all - i found 2 more places here connected to anylee


 Re: International Council of Thirteen Indigenous Grandmothers
« Reply #31 on: Today at 10:13:20 am »   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I see they take amylee's 'pods' with them to give as gifts wherever they go!
guess pope "didn't get his."    not yet anyways.

and=

 Re: Update: Forum donations
« Reply #7 on: Today at 10:21:49 am »   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Barnaby= you said "They don't have a website but here's their US address. In the past they've helped get the Akwesasne Freedom School and the Kanatsiohareke community going."
 

Did you see kanatsohareke is good friends with amylee = she also makes and donates the herbs to help them them =www.hernativeroots.com
 
i think rose says kanatsoihareke "deny" amylee!!! 


 ???
 
 
 
 

Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: sassy on September 24, 2008, 06:10:38 pm
i did what Rose said, iwent to younger sites to search and this is all thats there = places about the only amylee swartz is a young white woman in NYC!

 ???

claimID.com/amyleeswartz - AmyLee SwartzAmyLee Swartz runs every charitable marathon she can fit into her hectic schedule. Ms. AmyLee Swartz is a young, adopted, NYC native social worker.
claimid.com/amyleeswartz


Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: frederica on September 24, 2008, 08:29:48 pm
Well, you are getting stilly now.  Not even clever.  I am still waiting to hear with which Band, Tribe, Nation she is actually enrolled.  There has been Alerts on the Internet since the mid-90's concerning Amylee.  She has removed many statements  concerning her being a "Mohawk Medicine Woman".  But the Alerts are still there as she did not put them up to begin with.  I'm not trying to be rude, but I know it's a waste of time trying to reason with anyone that defends or supports nuage frauds.  Last I heard she or one of her cohorts claimed she was from Canada.  They have National Rolls, and a new system they started last year.  Try the National Level.      Since her mother was Mohawk and father Seneca.  They are deceased, from the States, Birth Certificates are available.  These can be checked against Enrollment  Offices.  The Mohawk have around 18 Councils, Bands. The Seneca maybe a dozen.  That covers both Canada and the States. The bottom line is people cannot sell things as "American NDN" unless you are a member of a federally recognized Nation.  Mostly, what I see is you are just trying to hijack several threads.  This should be the end of it.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Defend the Sacred on September 24, 2008, 08:34:12 pm
There has been Alerts on the Internet since the mid-90's concerning Amylee. 

And pre-Internet, since the mid- or late-80's by word of mouth.

Quote
Mostly, what I see is you are just trying to hijack several threads.  This should be the end of it.

Yeah, looks that way to me, too.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: sassy on September 25, 2008, 11:44:22 am
 :-[I am sorry. I did not know what hijacking was here. I sill don’t. But I never meant to trake something that was not mine,.take it away from someone else. I would put it back but I still don’t know what I took or did wrong. I am sorry.

Since I don’t know what i did wrong let me tell you what i thought i was doing and why.

My family new an amylee when we were relocated. The BIA said my Dad could pick to learn how to be a butcher or cut hair = talk about stereotypes. Dad picked one and they sent him to the other.

But before that, we got dropped off at our “new" house – it was old and rundonwn not so different than what we came from only it was far away from hone and in the city.

But there wasn’t no heat or electric or water or gas or food or nothing. We got vouchers for clothes and stuff but no car and no idea where the stores were anyway.

We just sat around cands of sterno to keep warm and see at night. We brought in snow to melt to flush the toilet but it was too cold the snow never metled in there. We had pop and cookies and junk to eat Mom was nursing too.

Well the only time I ever seen Amylee she came to our house with some food and while she was talking to us the BIA guy came in = he left the door wide open not even notcing we were shovering while he just talks on and amylee grabs him by the back of his busines coat and pushes him out to the porch and shuts the door behind her. She smiled and winked at me then shut the door.

She yelled that man backwards down the steps it was funny but kind of scary too. We thought we might need that BIA man later. Dad said he guessed that's what Mohawk ladies are like. Mom laughed the baby right off her. Amylee slameed the car door after the BIA and they drove off in both cars.

We didn’t know what was going to happen next. But a few hours go by and the lights come on! Then the phone rings! And then we got smelly water coming out the sink faucet and by night the gas was on for heat and cooking.
 
Next day a nice woman comes and packs us all in her church van and fills it up with all the stuff from those vouchers.

We didn’t think no more about Amylee until my Grandfather died and we didn’t know how what to do. Then comes a special delivery package with a note from Anylee in it from the Indian rights, and in the envelope was 9 round trip bus tickets and food coupons for the bus station restaurants and some cash and a blanket and tobacco to take home to the funeral.

So that's all I really know about Amylee until I come here and see her name. but I think that can’t be the same person. So I watch a long time = and I look other places sometimes. And then I think they still have her mixed up with somebody else or maybe many somebody elses and I see there are a LOT of amylees out there. There’s a NDN wrestler named AmyLee – jeeminy! And there’s a Chinese doctor Amylee and a woman doing XXX pictures of herself  AmyLee and a singer Amylee and lots. And there’s only one Amylee Swartz that the search engines bring up and its not the Amylee I knew not the one you're talking about. So I figure I’ll just stay out of it. Mohawk women can take care of themselves from what I seen. I bet a birth certificate for “Amylee Swartzs" not going to get you any closer to the Amylee you think you are talking about though. I think you have a lot of Amylees mixed up. May be the one I know will set it all strait with Wingo and that lawyer of his. Until then seems it's a lot easier here to just gossip and ban people that disagree with you. Calling them names like lunatic.

Yesterday I seen Barnaby’s post about the lawyer for the Indian center and I remembered I read about that so I went and got it and posted it. Was that the hijacking? I’m sorry. I thought that would help. I only try to help. I remembered to that the Indian Resources was doing some projects to  help conect people with programs others have like stopping teenage suicide and to help NDN women with aids to get help. Rural NDN women are the last to go get help and the resource center was trying to help change that.

The only other program i remember was about helping tribes start organic farms and grow herbs to get them healthier. The center matches  the resources of others with people who need them. So I was going to go bring that site back here = hijacking again, but before I did I thought I think I’ll just stay here a while and look around for more info may be already here.

That's when I notice Barnaby posted that about the "pods" link and how it made him vomit. I thought it was okay when I went to the site. I also seen that the 13 grandmothers are given "pods" to travel with and give away as gifts. That sounds nice and like the Amylee I met. The site also says they are NOT an American Indian product = so nobody, not Amylee, are breaking any rules there. What's your problem!

Then I post that about the 13 grandmothers because i seen someone else posted about them yesterday too. When I brought that post back to the amylee posts is that where I broke the ruiles? Is that the hijacking I did? I am sorry.

The only other thing i sad was that the AmyLee Swartz Rose wirtes about may be she mixed up with the ONLY AmyLee Swartz on the internet. She sure mixed up a lot of other things! When I posted that link I thought that was okay to do that way. I think may be now I was supposed to hi-light the words or something to make them show up different? I didn't know how. But they weren’t hi-jacked which means stolen and taken away.  I don't steal. I don’t lie either. Please don’t call me that.

The other part was when I pointed out that I found another place where the Traditional Mohawk Comunity Kanatsiaharke was posted here= by Barnaby and he liked it. Rose says that the Mohawk of Kanatshioharke call amylee a charlton and fraud and deny her. But if you go to HerNativeRoots.com home page you see they must really like Amylee. Traditional Mohawks trust the herb company and her with making herbs for them and raising money for them. They say they make herbs FOR NDN not calling the herbs NDN made. That’s not against the law. I want to bring that part here for you to see but now I'm afraid  to take anything from one place and put to another. There are several pages about it in “events" and “specials" there. So that’s all I was trying to do to not steal treads but to connect dots. I’m sorry.

I don't feel good that I made  mistakes here. I tried  raelly hard to help. I’m sorry. But I'm not “silly." And I'm not mean. I feel stupid for not knowing how to play your game. I feel pretty bad about people hear being so mean to lots of people. Racist is bad enough but when you ban people for trying to point out mistakes while letting other people keep on making them then racism turns into bigot. This NDN seen enough of both for a lifetime. You don’t have to ban me, Im leaving on my own. I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings or broke anyone's rules and I'm specially sorry if I hurt AmyLee - any of the Amylees! I guess you think you are helping somebody but it's sure not NDNS. I think you are just helping yourselves feel good by making others feel bad.

goodbye, sassy :(


Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Prairie Fairy on September 25, 2008, 03:03:44 pm
I get sad too sometimes when people on this forum are a little mean to me, but then there is that other part of me that is interested in truth. I have known my share of abusers in life, and it's pretty clear the people on this forum are not abusers. I have also been intimately familiar with good people who have abusive patterns, and that is also not my impression of the people on this forum.  The people here are warriors, with the occasional rough mannerism, doing good and needed work. When one has been through enough experience wrestling oneself away from truly abusive people in life one will begin to appreciate the difference.

Certainly nobody is perfect, and it is always possible to exploit this fact for an audience who is willing to believe in random utopias where reality never hits the ground. The thing about reality, though, is that it always does. We ask ourselves then where the idealists are who were never able to accept the human flaws in others. It seems more and more they are all too often long gone with a bag full of money.

Obviously the truth being defended here is worth a lot, maybe you can see that too, Sassy, if you are really so sad and well intentioned as you say.

Perhaps of course, though, you are a very well woven sock puppet. The reason I say this is not only because this thread is chock full of incessant and persistent sock puppets, but also because it strikes me strangely that somebody with the history you describe yourself as having would have absolutely no sympathy with the cause this forum takes up, would not see the damage that is being done by the cultural exploiters in our midst. Such a person in real life would probably have a clue about that. That is not necessarily true, however, of phantasms and creations of somebody's mind, which is ultimately what I suspect you of being.

I know the racist illusions that new agers can have about any manner of other peoples when it is psychologically (/financially?) convenient. (Your persona is so touchingly vulnerable, for someone who is only interested in passing and on the surface, or who is needy and sees themselves somehow reflected.) When it comes to activism and really dealing with injustice in this world, they(/you?) aren't interested.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Julia on October 01, 2008, 05:22:48 pm
SouthwestSkeptic wrote:

Quote
...she was just interviewed WBAI radio on the program First Voices Indigenous Radio (www.FirstVoicesIndigenousRadio.org ). The show is hosted by Tiokasin Ghosthorse (Lakota) who appears to be clueless about her., The show aired on April 3, 2008 show. You can listen to it in the archives at:  http://archive.wbai.org. 
Click on see all shows and scroll down to April 3rd

Or just go here: http://archive.wbai.org/allshows.php Then go down to  First Voices Indigenous Radio and click on play on the right side to hear it.

For those of you who don’t have real player, here’s a synopsis of the outlandish claims Swartz made.

She claims to have sponsored the first longest walk which pushed the bill through for religious freedom for Native pp in the US.

She claims Iroquois people passed on wisdom to her to use herbs.

Later on in the interview was lots of Newagey nonsensical  talk .. All directions converge within your own drum your own beating heart…
lots of talk about sacred mother earth and father sky
she says a lot of stuff like the whole parade of your ancestors converges inside your own beating heart and all the future dwells there too.  Lots of trite phrases but nothing of substance

She claims she was guided by many native teachers who took her out to the woods where she earned about herbs from (?) Peterson – a Haudenausaunee medicine woman. She says that the “The plants responded, they absolutely vibrated when she would take a walk to sing to them???. 

She  claims that her great great grandmother had 3 medicine bundles that she kept at  her door and that she was a midwife.

She claims that the term Medicine Woman is an inherited right and she has earned the right to be called that.

She says her grandmothers fortold that she would be an herbalist

She even has the nerve to talk about all those other  hucksters who are doing medicine shows for money.

She also claimed to be fluent in the Iroquois language, but she couldn’t translate her Indian name “She who catches rainbows??? because every word is a sentence and it would be quite a long run on sentence to combine. 

Claims she co-founded the Ohio branch of the Native American Rights Association at Kent State University.  I can’t find any mention of this organization anywhere. 

She never introduced herself properly in her native language or stated exactly who her people are or what rez she grew up on.  We have a radio show here on Sundays and every guest always introduces himself in the language.

She claimed again that she was the last medicine woman in her lineage and she does consultations – whatever that is.

In my opinion, hearing her voice gives you a lot of vital information about who she really is. She seemed to me to break character and get more and more silly and Newagey as the interview progressed. My skin-dar is going off.  The only time I’ve heard somebody talk about “Father sky??? is in the movies.


You can contact  Tiokasin Ghosthorse  to set him straight at:
tiokasin@gmail.com or leave a voicemail at (212) 209-2979

I'm not surprised that Tiokasin Ghosthorse was "clueless" about this person.  His name appears in a list of "Soul Companions", aka "Wisdom Keepers", who are as ludicrous a bunch of Nuage peddlers as you'll find anywhere on the internet: http://www.soulcompanions.org/index.php?pr=Wisdom-Keepers

Ghosthorse's fellow Wisdom-Keepers include a Druid, a "Faery Shaman", an "elder of the European shamanic tradition known as the Path of Pollen", an Indigo/Crystal adult "who works primarily with the Archangel Michael", the author of a book entitled "Listening to Trees", a "rabbinical trickster" and a 20 year old "psychic surgeon" who claims to have cured a man's terminal liver cancer in two days.  I've written an article about them: http://stargoss.co.uk/garymannion/modules/news/article.php?storyid=51.



 

Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Author on October 01, 2008, 06:55:51 pm
I am the author of Profiles in Wisdom: Native Elders Speak About the Earth. I am dismayed to find that this web site contains puerile insults, and unsubstantiated allegations against people, in particular AmyLee, and that my book has been unlawfully plagiarized in an effort to defame her. 

You did not seek my permission to copy and publish a chapter from my book, Profiles in Wisdom, and I fail to see how my work is in any way relevant or supportive of the disrespectful, juvenile, jealous rage that characterizes some of the posts on this web page. You do a great disservice to AmyLee, and to the thousands of women and men who have benefited from knowing her. Further, you insult all women by using the phrase ‘douche’ in an attempt to insult one woman. Pointlessly.

I have known AmyLee since the late 1980s. I respect and I admire her. I have seen her conduct herself with honor, empowering women and men with intelligence, depth, generosity of spirit, and relevancy.

My late wife, was a mature, wise woman, and also a shrewd judge of character. She participated in the Shields circle, which she found to be of great personal value. She also came to respect and admire AmyLee after the year of profound work with a large circle of other strong, independent, intelligent women. I further note that the “price-tag??? for this gift was NOT the posted $300-$400 but a sliding scale between $25 and $35 to cover the year’s mailings.

I read on this web page that Ms. Rose Garcia is operating under one of many conflicting legal interpretations of the Fair Use rule as she takes my work, without asking me, in a effort to insult, degrade and defame AmyLee. That is immoral and wrong.

The courts continue to challenge and refine the interpretations Ms. Garcia is claiming are somehow fair, legal, and acceptable.

Whether or not Ms. Rose Garcia’s decision to reprint a chapter from my book is legally actionable, I am certain reasonable people agree that ASKING the AUTHOR’S PERMISSION to reprint large excerpts from copyright protected work is the polite and correct thing to do.

To protect you from litigation, on at least this issue, I, the Author and Copyright holder for Profiles in Wisdom, have decided to grant you, Ms. Rose Garcia, permission to post or otherwise copy and disseminate Chapter 11 of my book CONDITIONAL to the following restrictions:

1.   The ENTIRE chapter 11 must be uploaded and posted or otherwise disseminated and
2.   ALWAYS with the following preface*
3.   Any deviation from this request will be considered a violation of my terms and subject you to potential legal repercussions.
4.   Further, ALL derogatory cartoons aimed at AmyLee  MUST be immediately removed from any site which also features my copyright protected work.

I want you to know that including the following new Preface to Chapter 11 in all reprints by Ms. Rose Garcia is mandatory. If you are going to take my work, and use it on this web page in effort to defame someone I admire, you must include my new preface.

The terms of use that I am granting to Ms. Rose Garcia expire October 15, 2008. Removal of all online posting of my work by Ms. Garcia must take place at that time.

Ignoring Author’s terms:
•   Be it by refusing to remove offensive cartoons aimed at defaming AmyLee,
•   Be it by omitting pages thereby not offering to readers the ENTIRE chapter 11 in full context,
•   Be it by not prefacing any and all re-prints, electronic or otherwise, with the following MANDATORY new PREFACE,
•   Be it by exceeding the stated expiration date of permission,

may result in legal action against Ms. Garcia as well as against those hosting the sites featuring or linking the posts in violation. Non-acceptance of any of the set forth  terms constitutes a willful violation, by Ms. Garcia, of the Author’s and Copyright holder’s reasonable requests and limits on electronic or other reproduction.

The following preface MUST immediately, this date of 1 October 2008, be added to any electronic reprint of Chapter 11 in Profiles in Wisdom:

Author’s Preface – October 1, 2008
“The second Edition of Profiles in Wisdom does not feature any changes to the original interview chapters. While interviewees, including AmyLee, inquired about changes, corrections, and additions, that was, regrettably, outside the scope of the publisher.

That corrections and updates could not be made is indeed unfortunate, for having read defamatory posts based on misinterpretations of my book, and false characterization of AmyLee, I can assure readers that a revised edition would have eliminated the occasion for such libelous speculation.

Example: It was not AmyLee’s choice to be called a Medicine Woman at that premature age. It was an error often made the same way Native men were presumptuously mislabeled “Chief??? by those who intended no disrespect – indeed, often intended quite the opposite. She spoke candidly, telling me that she would not even be eligible to be seriously considered for the title until reaching a certain milestone of maturity.

I explained this point clearly in the Introduction to Profiles in Wisdom when I wrote the book, so that no one could possibly misunderstand. That paragraph is in all editions, as fair-minded people will note. When I interviewed, and otherwise observed AmyLee, she presented herself solely as a representative for her own “lineage,??? further defined as “her own immediate family??? and not as an emissary for any tribe, clan, nation or group beyond that family.

For more than 27 years, AmyLee has actively carried four state and federal permits that officially license her in Wildlife Rescue, Rehabilitation, Scientifics and Education. She has earned her designation as a “Modern Day Medicine Woman in service of Wildlife.??? I congratulate her and we all can thank her for her dedication to our winged and animal relations.


As was true many, long years ago when I interviewed her for my book, I recognize in AmyLee the qualities of a spiritual elder. Over the course of my life I have been privileged to know, literally, hundreds of spiritual elders, many with deep, authentic roots in native ways. It has been the subject of my work. AmyLee stood among these cultural treasures back in the 1980s and 1990s when, at the urging of her elders, she stepped out of her cocoon and began to share with the people at a time of obviously impending earth changes. She remains standing in her integrity.

In my view being a spiritual elder has little to do with age. Rather, it has to do with having the character to resist lower-self temptations such as envy, jealousy, anger, hatred, resentment, and calumny, and instead embodying love, respect, wisdom, generosity of spirit and the grace to act in life with dignity and integrity.

I recognize now, as I did then, the qualities of a spiritual elder in AmyLee. I hope she will again spread her wings and carry her messages outward bound. The need for wisdom and integrity is great.

I must also affirm that AmyLee has freely gifted her time and energy to many venues, including to those women with whom she studied nature’s “Shields??? – all without personal monetary remuneration and most especially without remuneration when involving “ceremony.???

It was clear that the Elders and Teachers who sent AmyLee out into the world to share also supported her journey, many times accompanying her with a sense of pride. It was those very Elders who encouraged her to consent to my interview for Profiles in Wisdom.

There are segments of her chapter that I know AmyLee would have revised including lessening the focus on herself to highlight the wisdom of her Elders. It was my choice, as author, to focus on the innate wisdom I perceived in AmyLee herself.

If publishing limitations had permitted, the second edition would have featured an update on AmyLee’s efforts to bring education and peaceful resolution to the sensitive issue of cultural appropriation – an extension of the well documented work she did in the 1970’s and 1980’s exposing racism in its many insidious forms.

While I understand the natural world is a better place for having AmyLee tend injured and recovering animals, I am far from alone in inviting her back to public life among the human beings to fill the important void of conscience and consciousness made by her absence.

One poster on this web-page wrote accurately and powerfully of how AmyLee took an ethical stand in the 1990s at one of the Bear Tribe Medicine Wheel Gatherings in New York after several women came to her to complain of sexual improprieties involving other people. I can confirm that AmyLee took an immediate and courageous stand on behalf of all the women. She confronted the leaders and the accused, she demanded justice, and she then severed her ties with the gathering. I was there. I saw her tears of sorrow after she met with the women, and then I saw her strength, determination, clarity, and wisdom in confronting the situation. She made a big difference. Things changed after AmyLee stepped forward, and her subsequent principled departure from the gathering.

Finally, for any and all errors or omissions I may have unknowingly made in Profiles in Wisdom, I apologize to both AmyLee and to my readers.

- AUTHOR, Profiles in Wisdom
October  1, 2008


Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Defend the Sacred on October 01, 2008, 07:25:39 pm
It was clear that the Elders and Teachers who sent AmyLee out into the world to share also supported her journey, many times accompanying her with a sense of pride. It was those very Elders who encouraged her to consent to my interview for Profiles in Wisdom.

Which Elders? What Nation? It's my understanding that no Native people claim her as a relative, let alone an emissary. Outsiders to Native culture can be so gullible when some person shows up claiming "The Elders" sent them...

Quote
AmyLee took an ethical stand in the 1990s at one of the Bear Tribe Medicine Wheel Gatherings in New York after several women came to her to complain of sexual improprieties involving other people. <snip> Things changed after AmyLee stepped forward, and her subsequent principled departure from the gathering.

Thing is, actual Native people - the traditional ones, not the ones who sell out and make a living off selling "teachings" and ceremonies to white people - had been boycotting Sun Bear's sellout since at least 1984. The Medicine Wheel Gathering was always based on having monied white people buy access to those they thought were Indigenous teachers. Some basically ok people went - once or twice. But in my opinion those with a conscience immediately stopped when they found out how traditional Indigenous communities really felt about it.

How about naming who the sexual predators were? That would be something helpful you, or Amylee, could do. Are they still out there?



ETA: The search function on here will turn up some of the threads that mention LaDuke (aka "Sun Bear") and the charges against him, but here are a couple:

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=656.msg3257#msg3257

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=127.0

If the sexual predators you refer to are people besides LaDuke himself, I think the  moral thing to do is alert people.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Superdog on October 02, 2008, 06:06:58 am
I am the author of Profiles in Wisdom: Native Elders Speak About the Earth.


- AUTHOR, Profiles in Wisdom
October  1, 2008




So this is Steven McFadden??? 

Just tryin' to be clear.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows - McFadden EXPOSED
Post by: SouthwestSkeptic on October 02, 2008, 08:51:28 am
I’m sure that “author??? is just another one of AmyLee’s endlessly tiresome personas, but

the so-called author of the bogus work, Profiles in wisdom : native elders speak about the Earth  is none other than …

Steven McFadden

McFadden has been mentioned in this forum many times before.

In the  Research Needed:

Re: Odyssey of the 8th Fire by educatedindian “
“is Steve McFadden's account of a walk supposedly done on  ...
...  elders. On the plus side, I don't see McFadden claiming to be something he's not, just  ...
...  also certainly a respected elder.

But McFadden has fallen for and promoted frauds  ...???

And again in the Frauds section

Re: Suraj Holzwarth aka White Eagle Medicine Woman by bls926

Author's Occasional Newsletter
from Steven McFadden

Locations and Contacts …???


Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.

A little internet archeology will reveal that McFadden is a well-known promoter of frauds and gross distortions of Native American spiritual practices.

If you search the archives of this forum and others like it, you will find his name mentioned in association with lots of well documented frauds including the people involved in the gathering of one and the infamous White Ego Woman.  He spreads a lot of White Supremacist fantasies about the Rainbow Warriors and promotes the Art Bell version of the Hopi/Mayan prophesies.

http://www.chiron-communications.com/stevenbio.html


McFadden clearly has no authentic knowledge of any Native American spiritual elder. He’s promoting the same myths and racist stereotypes about Native people that the left refuses to let go of.

To give you an idea of how off his gourd McFadden is, here’s another of his ‘celebrated works’

very long Google Books link shortened (http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=jGqmyBnzphYC&dq=%22Rainbow+Warriors%22+%2B+%22Steven+McFadden%22&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=0OiL4IX1YZ&sig=tXWx0ebpZL1T4jBpTOJ2N1r3ZtY&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPR7,M1)


“Legend of the Rainbow Warriors, by Steven McFadden (2001, Chiron Communications, Santa Fe, NM). This book a journalist¹s account of one of the core myths of America, and an exploration of how that myth is playing out in real time. As drawn from dozens of historical accounts, the legend of the rainbow warriors relates that "when the Earth becomes desperately sick and chaotic -- socially, environmentally, and militarily --  people of all colors and faiths will unite, and rise to face the overwhelming challenges with insight, honesty, caring, sharing, and respect."  The prophetic teachings of the spiritual elders are skillfully juxtaposed with the key news events of our era, and a compilation of wisdom teachings from around the world.  Legend of the Rainbow Warriors gives a detailed accounting of Harmonic Convergence (1987), and traces the development of the impulse released at this time as it leads onward to 2012.  In essence, the book provides the full mythic and journalistic context of the transition, and offers in-depth guidance on balanced ways to navigate through all the storms of change.???


The distortion of Native American spiritual beliefs that McFadden promotes for profit has been debunked over and over again in this forum and others.


I scanned chapter 11 in its entirety into the computer. Not one word was omitted. No alterations were made. You can see similar scans on other sites exposing AmyLee as a fraud.
All I did was highlighted the many lies, contradictions and utterly ridiculous statements made by AmyLee herself.  If McFadden/Swartz have nothing to hide, they shouldn’t be so opposed to having this work literally reproduced on the internet so that individuals can have all the information they need to make a fully informed assessment of the many claims Miss Swartz has made.

I recently included a scan from the back of the book, p. 243,  where AmyLee is listed as an “elder??? who wants to be contacted and she gave her contact address as the same one as the infamous Hawk Hollow nonprofit scam.

http://www.geocities.com/southwestskeptic/SmokingGun.html

That’s probably what prompted her latest threat.

 It’s odd that these trolls point to a work to prove their ridiculous allegation and then get all upset when the work is available for independent analysis. That’s pretty paternalistic – expecting us all to take their word for everything without seeing any sort of evidence for ourselves.

Like little children, we’re supposed to trust an anonymous poster on the internet that AmyLee has provided documentation.  We’re supposed to trust some anonymous voice that I’ve misquoted a radio broadcast, yet that individual refuses to post a transcript of the broadcast. These anonymous ghosts keep citing some irrelevant preface, but yet they refuse to post it so it can be examined.  That’s pretty suspicious to me. Sounds like people with a lot to hide and a lot of money to lose.

There are hundreds of people who have heard her shtick all over Michigan and Ohio who can verify that what is in this chapter is the bullshit she was selling to gullible white feminists in the 1980s and 1990s.  If you google “AmyLee??? + “shield??? or "Amylee" + "medicine woman" you can find hundreds of followers of AmyLee who believe they were trained in some ludicrous sisterhood of the shields.  Yet we’re supposed to distrust our own eyes and believe some anonymous person that none of this ever happened.

There is no reason to think that there is anything relevant to add in future editions of McFadden’s fiction. If Swartz/McFadden says there is, let him/her prove it by scanning this revelatory preface and letting us decide for ourselves if any preface could in anyway overshadow the massive amount of incriminating evidence Swartz/McFadden has provided for the public.

Maybe someone who’s been very busy trying to erase all trace of her pay-to-pray shields scam from the internet could spend some time on this ey?

Since the troll on this site has difficulty comprehending simple concepts, I’ve reproduced the short Wiki version of Fair use without too much to read or too many big words.

Fair use is a doctrine in United States copyright law that allows limited use of copyrighted material without requiring permission from the rights holders, such as use for scholarship or review. It provides for the legal, non-licensed citation or incorporation of copyrighted material in another author's work under a four-factor balancing test. The term "fair use" originated in the United States, but has been added to Israeli and the UK law as well; a similar principle, fair dealing, exists in some other common law jurisdictions. Civil law jurisdictions have other limitations and exceptions to copyright.

Since this forum is all about scholarship and review and many of us are giving your book a negative review which falls within our constitutionally protected first amendment rights, you have no say in how much material I choose to site, how I choose site it or what my opinion of it is.  Even the Bush administration doesn’t want as much control over the free speech of literary critics that you claim. Only someone trying to cover up gross error would make such lame attempts at suppression of criticism as you have. As long as I reproduce less than ten percent of the entire work and cite Fair use, I am entirely within my rights to criticize your fraudulent misrepresentation of Native American spiritual leaders.

Your understanding of copyright law is as flawed as your understanding of who is a Native American elder.  McFadden shamelessly exploited Tom Porter and Lorraine Canoe by placing one chapter containing the thoughts of legitimate spirituals elder in a book promoting fugazies like Dhayni Ywahoo, Twyla Nitsch, Oh Shinnah Fastwolf, Manitonquat/Medicine Story, Hunbatz Men and or course Sun Bear.  There is nothing you can say to convince a true believer that their beloved guru has been jerking them around

Our first amendment rights allow us to criticize this work. While I’m sure you’d like to suspend these rights for the “bad??? educated NDNS, there is nothing you can do.
Any attempt to sue me or anyone else engaged in debunking AmyLee's bogus claims to be an “Iroquois Medicine Woman??? will be met by my releasing every scrap of evidence we have collected exposing AmyLee as a complete fraud.
I will subpoena her birth certificate, her natural mother’s birth certificate, her grandmother’s birth certificate, her great-grandmother’s birth certificate etc. and I’ll subpoena all her living relatives.
and all the Ellis Island records of her European ancestors.  In addition, I will happily give this information to any reporter who is interested in exposing AmyLee’s 30 year history or academic, literary and commercial fraud. And I will see that the court proceedings are posted on the internet and in all the places that gullible white lesbian feminists tend to go.


The cartoon is of me. It has brown skin and black hair, like I do. If the cartoon was of AmyLee it would be of a rotund Caucasian woman with red hair, pale blue eyes, pale white, white skin and freckles, like AmyLee has.  Are you going to sue me for making fun of myself?


So go ahead, Mr. McFadden/Miss Swartz, make my day!

I welcome the opportunity to get as much publicity on this issue as I possibly can.


In closing, I will quote Tom Porter, from your book, who is a legitimate spiritual elder who is quite skilled in analyzing AmyLee and her ilk.

From Chapter one, Sounding A Basic Call to Consciousness Lorraine Canoe & Tom Porter???

“That exists to an extent in Indian country. I mean, there are some Indians who have seen a chance to make a big profit. So now they charge for ceremonies. There’s people walking around saying they studies with this medicine man or that medicine man, and so it’s like they’ve got a diploma. That’s a bunch of bull. There’s no such thing in Indian country. You don’t show your faith, you live it out every day in the way you do Indian ceremonies.??? (McFadden, p. 30)

The only nice thing about McFadden that I can say is that I enjoyed the first chapter of the book, but I find it ironic that the first chapter so completely contradicts all the other chapters of the book.  All the frauds McFadden promotes ignore the wisdom of the authentic spiritual leaders and spend all their energy doing exactly what he tells them not to do.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm



Rose






Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: SouthwestSkeptic on October 02, 2008, 09:04:48 am
AmyLee/Sassy,

Younger sites means myspace and facebook.

Social workers don't commend much respect where I come from.

Anyone can engage in shameless self promotion.

You wouldn't know about most of these sites because they're private. You have to post your real, current picture and be invited by other brown skinned people to view them.

I like native myspace and facebook better because the skinz filter out all the posers, like you.

It's a yung red thang, you woudn't understand!


AAAAAYYYYYYYEEEEE!!!!!
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: SouthwestSkeptic on October 02, 2008, 09:42:48 am
"Author"

Your so-called preface doesn't justify or explain anything.
You can’t explain one lie with another big one.

AmyLee didn't expose anything about Sun Bear, she and her mom were working with him until his death.

She actually charged much more than the $350.00 shield birthing fee in her pamphlets. She claimed you needed to make a new shield for each moon cycle.

I hope she's ready to make some big refunds.

Why did you promote AmyLee as a Medicine woman in the first place without thoroughly checking out her claims? Didn't you give the so-called elders you interviewed advanced copies to review and make corrections on? You’re not much of a scholar are you?

The 1991 edition of your 'work' is still available in libraries around the world. Isn't it YOUR responsibility to correct all these misunderstandings?  Why aren't you sending them copies of your preface?

If you're so concerned with accuracy, then why aren't you making sure that all the people who check out the 1991 edition in libariries aren't mislead by all your errors? 

I'm holding your book in my hand and there's no corrections here. Don't you even care about all the young people who might check out this book and mistake AmyLee for an elder?  I've got a red pen handy, should I just write wrong, wrong wrong all over the pages?

By the way, why did AmyLee basically quote chapter 11 from the 1991 edition all over again in her own voice when interviewed in APRIL OF THIS YEAR - 2008???? Should I believe you, or my lying ears?

How is it that in 2008 AmyLee allowed herself to be referred to as  a "Medicine woman" and made no attempt at all to correct her interviewer?  Does she have old-timerz?


If her great-great-grandmother was such a big deal to the "Iroquois" then why won't she give her name? I'm sure all my new Mohawk and Seneca friends would love to know what it is.

Wouldn't an honest person, with nothing to hide, would be forthcoming with this information?

Did AmyLee have a senior moment? All the Mohawk people I've been chatting with online have told me that an authentic medicine woman wouldn’t go on the radio hawking colon cleansing herbal junk or an Indian Bird Flu cure.n They say that's just snake oil.
Maybe you should include that in your next great work -- I mean unless 2012 comes early and the earth is destroyed except for all the good white folks who make better NDNS than the brown ones do!

How do you explain the fact that up until May of 2008, AmyLee's own websites declared her to be an elder and a medicine woman?
How do you explain that in 2008, her advertisements for PAID speaking engagements did too?  Until she was listed in the frauds section of this web site, she had no problem seeing these claims in all different forms of media. How on earth do you explain that?


If you're really interested in clearing up misunderstandings, then maybe you can explain to us what the hell a "lineage" is anyway and how is it possible for AmyLee to be the last in it?  Why don't the Mohawk know about this vanishing lneage?

Why has she refused to tell anyone what her clan/band/specific nation is?

WE"RE STILL WAITING!!!!!

Where does the great medcin womon get her blood?  Who claims her?

For a young person, I can be very patient.


Rose





Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: educatedindian on October 03, 2008, 01:06:39 am
Author's post did have one effect. It made me wonder if the earliers posts by Amylee Scwartz's agent were actually from him also.  Author's empty bluster about legal threats doesn't do anything except make him look desperate to hide something, esp when he doesn't know the most basic law and keeps getting other facts wrong.

Just like with the agent, if he were serious about legal htreats, he'd use a lawyer communicating privately. He would not splash it across a message board where it would only make people laugh.

Some other ridiculous claims from Author/McFadden.

"For more than 27 years, AmyLee has actively carried four state and federal permits that officially license her in Wildlife Rescue, Rehabilitation, Scientifics and Education. She has earned her designation as a “Modern Day Medicine Woman in service of Wildlife.???

ROFL!

I couldn't help but think "Dr Amylee Quinn, Medicine Woman!"

Oh my, that's funny. So Author/McFadden seriously thinks the feds are licensing Native medicine women now?

Or that animal rescue people are anywhere near the same as medicine people? Only the most deluded Nuager would equate the two.

The next statement is only comicial because of its arrogance and outright racism.

"I recognize in AmyLee the qualities of a spiritual elder. Over the course of my life I have been privileged to know, literally, hundreds of spiritual elders, many with deep, authentic roots in native ways....

In my view being a spiritual elder has little to do with age. Rather, it has to do with having the character to resist lower-self temptations such as envy, jealousy, anger, hatred, resentment, and calumny, and instead embodying love, respect, wisdom, generosity of spirit and the grace to act in life with dignity and integrity.

I recognize now, as I did then, the qualities of a spiritual elder in AmyLee."

Oh yes, Author has sent himself up as the arbiter of who is a Native elder. Can't have actual NDN people doing that now, can we? Only the Great White Savior.

Many of the people that McFadden promoted in his books as elders were obvious and outright frauds, but that didn't matter to him. Neither did his promotion of the phony Rainbow Prophecy, originally written by a white Baptist missionary out to convert NDNs.

Even by using the fluffy twinkie standards McFadden sets up, Amylee Schwartz is clearly no "elder."

She envies and is jealous of actual NDNs, that's why she has posed as one.

She is acting out of anger, hatred, and resentment by trying to silence any criticism of her using sock puppet IDs and sending followers of hers and people who make their money off her fraudulent claims (both her agent and McFadden) to do the same.

And she has no love or respect for Native peoples, or she would not lie and deceive about who she is. She has no wisdom, nor understanding of Native traditions.

No, Author/McFadden. You do not dictate who is an elder. Natives do, and there is no evidence any NDNs even know Amylee Schwartz as a relative, much less an elder.

Like Rose, I would look forward to seeing Amylee Schwartz exposed in court.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: educatedindian on October 05, 2008, 02:23:54 am
Just noticed this on the thread on Luz Clara, a fraud claiming to be a Mapuche medicine woman. Both of the frauds in turn trained another exploiter, Marria or Janiqueo.

------------------

old Google cache gone stale, working links below (http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:fJgqJF4w5TAJ:www.maskappeals.com/aboutus.html+luzclara+chilean+%22medicine+woman%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=20&gl=us)
Marrria's Bio:
Marrria began her work in the Chilean Mapuche tradition in 1995 with Luzclara and Quinturay Raipan. It was at this time she received her Kultrun and spiritual name, Janiqueo. Marrria continues to learn from Quinturay, and travel with her. They have been to Argentina, and to the Mapuche land in the South of Chile, Nuevo Imperial, where Marrria met and received high ceremony - namely a Guillatun - from Quinturay’s spiritual teacher, Machi Clarita.
When Quinturay challenged Marrria to pursue her own scared Path, Marrria began to unearth a spiritual body of work through dream time, meditation, and ritual. This work took many years to develop, and is now the working foundation for the New York Women’s Circle, a group which Marrria facilitates...
Marrria is also a Mesa carrier.  She studied with Alberto Villoldo, Juan Nunez del Prado, and Oscar Miro Quesada. Marrria spent two intensive months in Peru, where she was initiated into the Quero tradition...
Birdwoman's Bio:
Birdwoman began her spiritual path in 1969 after reading Don Juan, A Yaqui Way of Knowledge. She followed her spiritual path through nature based Native American studies, until in 1986, when she met Amylee, of Tippecanoe, Ohio, last granddaughter in a lineage of Iroquois Medicine Women. Birdwoman is an original Shield Sister, a rainbow coalition of women from around the world, who ceremony around the moon cycles and come together roughly once a year in Ceremony under Amylee’s teachings. Birdwoman is also a member of the Council of Shield Sisters.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Barnaby_McEwan on October 11, 2008, 03:54:01 pm
Well, look at that. The page Al referred to in 2007 in this thread (http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1092.0) has had all reference to Amylee removed!

Here's how the paragraph Al quoted reads today:

Quote
Birdwoman began her spiritual path in 1969 after reading Don Juan, A Yaqui Way of Knowledge. She followed her spiritual path through nature based Indigenous studies.
In 1996 Birdwoman met Marrria, Katsi Boani at a Bear Tribe Medicine Wheel . Katsi Boani became Birdy's best friend and inspiration, as she encouraged Birdy to connect more deeply with her divine feminine. Up until that time, Birdy was spending much of her energy holding up a “tough-guy??? attitude, as she moved around the patriarchal community in which she worked.

http://www.maskappeals. com/about.html

And get this:

Quote
...Birdwoman, is a producer on First Voices Indigenous Radio

!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: JB Wingo on October 14, 2008, 02:05:42 am
JB here - I posted the offer to serve as middleman by collecting evidence readers and others would submit, with the promise of relaying it all to Attorney Domingo Rivera, cyber-defamation lawyer. I offered a two week window of opportunity. That window is now closed. I admit I do not at all understand the attacks on me, nor do those posts mocking my sincere offer even make sense. I wanted to try conflict resolution a different way – and a few of you shoot at the messenger!  Well, you missed!

 

Thank you to all who sent me an overwhelming and interesting array of evidence and opinion, and not all just about AmyLee! I further thank other posters here, including Steven McFadden, “Author,??? who presented me with historical evidence reinforcing claims made here in support of AmyLee.

 

While I would like nothing more than to outline every item for you, ALL of which, by the way, was either supportive of AmyLee or were criticisms of this forum or some of its “posters,??? I am restricting this post to that evidence which will appeal to the majority of readers and may possibly end this thread once and for all.

 

   1. To clarify erroneous posters’ leaps to conclusion: As I stated before, I am an Agent, but AmyLee is NOT my client. She has no agent, needs no agent. No money changed hands when she did me a favor by agreeing to appear on the radio program for FREE.

 

   2. I understand a certified copy of AmyLee’s Birth Certificate was sent directly to Attorney Rivera – The name Swartz, nor any other spelling variation such as Schwartz, does NOT appear anywhere on AmyLee’s Birth Certificate.

 

   3. AmyLee’s race is listed on that Certified Legal document as American Indian.

 

   4. TALON, Inc. which owns Her Native Roots Herbals (reminding readers that AmyLee is neither a Board Member nor a Shareholder, nor even a paid employee of either but was instead the Product-line Founder) employs the common and prudent business practice of hiring a cyber-reputation service to routinely sweep the internet to find misinformation about their businesses, including their products, their spokespeople, consultants, etc. It was that service which located and systematically approached sites wherein there was misinformation; regardless if it was an error which could mislead the public about their products, a blog in which a well meaning customer may have over-spoken the merits of their products or overstated credits of someone affiliated with the corporation, or an outright character defamation event.

 

So it was TALON’s hired cyber-reputation service which located and corrected the misstatements about HerNativeRoots and/or AmyLee.  They were kept quite busy this past spring when a lone cyber-stalker (by virtue of the one recorded IP user; information about whom is legally revealed by subpoena) proceeded to highjack any posting place where AmyLee had been spoken about in a factual and flattering manner. The libeler made serious and numerous very personal attacks which were curiously absent of any fact, reminiscent in wording and content of some familiar posts found on this thread. The cyber-reputation service, on behalf of TALON, also attempted to approach forums which were flagrantly libeling. Most of those forums understood the legal implications and made the due corrections. When a site is deemed “unapproachable??? a Special Report is made to the client, in this case, to TALON, Inc.

 

Further noted, according to the Standard Monthly Reports, not one word ever actually written BY AmyLee was deleted by this service. Rather it was the falsehoods written ABOUT her or falsehoods about Her Native Roots Herbals that were and are of concern to TALON,Inc. It was the untrue words of others which were corrected or removed either by the original writer or by the agreeing wise host. AmyLee’s own few statements remain online, unchanged. This dispels the falsehood that AmyLee herself was somehow running around the internet, tying to hide something by “erasing her cyber footprint.??? It was instead, a call to correct those misplaced footprints which were stepping on corporate toes. Many, but not yet all, of the quotes from sites which over-state AmyLee’s merits or that party’s relationship to her (such as calling her their ‘Teacher’ or referring to her as an “Elder??? ) have indeed been removed. It is curious that this forum in its paranoia considers “corrections of falsehoods, replacing them with fact??? to somehow be “suspicious!??? Cached errors which have been found corrected on current sites typically prove the opposite! “When discovering cached information that conflicts with current data, the general population, as well as the Courts, deduce that a wrong has been righted by the new current data, not the other way around!???

 

As the seriousness of the offenses increases or accrues, the cyber-reputation service makes other legal recommendations.

 

Given this thread’s repeated and unapologetic libel against AmyLee, ranging from attacks on her race, gender, age, physicality, locale, hair style, family of deceased relatives, vocation, affiliations, and against nearly anything in which she has ever been accurately or falsely even remotely associated, I can assure you that the Administrators of this forum WILL be contacted by cyber-defamation Attorney Domingo Rivera, who now officially represents TALON, et al. (Still don’t believe me? CALL HIM!)

 

 

   5. Side note: a published copy of AmyLee’s itinerary during the time she made an appearance at the Bear Tribe Gatherings proves quite revealing. During that time she addressed not only those two Gatherings, two women’s music festivals, and a pagan-fest, but also the DAR ladies luncheon, 3 Girl Scout Troops, the YMCA camp, 5 Indian youth nature programs on two reservations, a monastery, 3 churches of various denominations including 1 Methodist Mother-Daughter Banquet – complete with “Mother,??? 2 retirement centers, 7 classrooms and 1 home school, an Indian Youth Treatment facility and she also shared a weekend of Native Offerings on the Six Nations Reserve, along with other respected teachers including her lifelong friend, aka Chapter One in Profiles In Wisdom, Tom Porter, Mohawk Elder. (If you had done your homework, you would have found they appear together elsewhere.)

 

Thus, given the array of speaking engagements, your attempt to pigeon-hole her as “New Age??? makes little sense. By tally alone, she would more accurately be dubbed a good “Scout!???  A real “Trooper!???

Funny how no one ever accuses her of trying to pass as a (DAR) Daughter of the American Revolution….of course, in one ironic respect, Iroquois women are just that!

 

The term “Modern Day Medicine Woman??? is open to as many legitimate and multiple interpretations as the term “Educated Indian.??? No one declared that any government was issuing permits to be called a Traditional Medicine Woman, and by the same “token??? no one here is concluding that a college degree makes one “educated???…nor “Indian.??? A more careful reading of the precise words posted about that term will prove educational for those able to actually read them without their usual rush to knee-jerk rhetoric. Previously referenced www.MedWom.com might further enlighten the undereducated. Your own devised definitions about anything here are hardly the final nor most legitimate prevailing definitions. (Let’s not pretend Indians actually ALL agree on any one thing either.)

 

While I kept my word by collecting evidence and reporting back to you what I did with it, I have no idea what Attorney Rivera’s time frame is. I do know he is collecting Legal Affidavits and other Statements. You DO have my word that contrary to Educated Indian’s earlier mocking dismissal of my sincere efforts, Attorney Rivera does now represent TALON, Inc. et al.

 

Southwest-Skeptic is still having such a hard time with very basic facts: there simply are so few facts in ANY of her postings that I shall make only one more attempt.

 

Southwest-Skeptic – you end one of your most recent lying tirades thusly:

 

“In closing, I will quote Tom Porter, from your book, who is a legitimate spiritual elder who is quite skilled in analyzing AmyLee and her ilk…???

 

 I am heartened you at least understand that Tom Porter is a respected authority on AmyLee – as they, and their respective families, (while AmyLee’s was yet living) have been lifelong friends! AmyLee continues to help raise funds for the Traditional Mohawk Community – Kanatsiohareke – which you libelously and wrongly named as a community which denounces her. (Just check out www.HerNativeRoots.com  Home Page, as I understand many Readers here already have!) I am certain Tom Porter will be very interested in learning of your defamatory comments against his dear Friend of nearly 40 years, AmyLee. I personally will be sure he is duly informed of this thread and your specific commentary – and cartoon which calls AmyLee “the biggest douche in the unverse??? (spelling error was yours).

SW – your displaced hatred is so out of control that I know I am wasting my effort to try again to educate you.  AmyLee had NO paid Speaking Engagements this year, nor any previous season during the past many years. (I am thinking she may have had ONE this century! Her television spot on the Maury Povich Show was TEN YEARS AGO – and contrary to Educated Indian’s ridiculous claim, she was not “laughed off the show??? - she was given the longest ovation in the show’s history when she put Maury in his place!)  Her actions standing up to the Bear Tribe have been recounted to you by I believe two witnesses here, and yet you (who were not there) and a few ignorant echoes are the ONLY ones “denying her.??? That you would call her a ‘douche’ in your cartoon is beyond juvenile, disturbed and offensive. That you would then defensively state here that the cartoon was not about AmyLee but about YOU since it was your characterized image insulting AmyLee is another indicator of your seriously tilted perceptions. That others here contribute to your delinquency is equally distressing. That you seem to think your own dark hair/dark skin physical description (I believe you elsewhere refer to yourself as being “half Mexican???) somehow sets the standards for all Indians is again racist. Serendipitously, I was given a book just yesterday, about the 6 Nations Reserve in Canada (was thinking of hooking them up with a documentary grant). This is from an ethnographic study entitled “Households and Families of the Longhouse Iroquois:???

 

“It is difficult if not impossible, to find a single member of the reserve who is genetically of pure Indian stock. This miscegenation manifests itself in an increased variability and modification in the phenotypical characteristics usually thought of as being associated with American Indians. The copper-colored skin has given away in many cases to light, almost Caucasian, skin hues.  Straight black head hair and sparse body hair have given way, and it is common to see wavy head hair, mustaches, and moderately heavy facial hair. Brown hair is common, and indeed, carroty and blonde hair are seen….the most common eye colouring is for the iris to be brown encircled with a blue fringe. Grey and blue eyes are also frequent.???

 

That study was made in 1956, the era AmyLee was born to. It is unlikely the trend has reversed itself over the past 52 years. Regardless, I do not share your assessment of her looks in the least. AmyLee has dark brown hair with russet overtones. Her eyes are grey, her skin I would assess as medium and I’ve never seen a freckle. However, your description DOES remind me of one of AmyLee’s Medicine Woman Teachers – a woman she credits both online and on the radio program – a Hawk Clan enrolled Seneca Elder – with red hair, light eyes, pale skin decorated with freckles the color of pennies and the size of dimes.

 

Many of the posters here could be “poster children??? for the Robert Kennedy quote someone submitted to me along with their evidence:

 

“What is objectionable, what is dangerous about extremists, is not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant. The evil is not what they say about their cause, but what they say about their opponents.???

 

AmyLee has never been your opponent – but she has certainly been the unwarranted target of your ignorant intolerance.  This thread reflects not at all on AmyLee but on YOU  – the posters - and the readers who recognize racism and bigotry, sexism and misogyny but remain silent in their evil midst.  All shame here is yours.

 

You have targeted AmyLee then created contrived ways in which to view her as morally, ethically, legally offensive to Native Peoples  – and having failed to successfully twist the truth, you yourselves may well be found guilty of  violating morality, ethics, and the law.

 

To those who attempted to post facts and further contacted me with documentation and concern, I again thank you. Your efforts will not be wasted.

 

JB Wingo
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Superdog on October 14, 2008, 08:11:55 am
JB....what tribe is she??
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Barnaby_McEwan on October 14, 2008, 05:50:15 pm
Great, another visit from one of Amylee's spin-doctors. Claims to be trying to correct misinformation but brings his/her own:

TALON, Inc. which owns Her Native Roots Herbals (reminding readers that AmyLee is neither a Board Member nor a Shareholder, nor even a paid employee of either but was instead the Product-line Founder) employs the common and prudent business practice of hiring a cyber-reputation service to routinely sweep the internet to find misinformation about their businesses, including their products, their spokespeople, consultants, etc. It was that service which located and systematically approached sites wherein there was misinformation...

How did this 'misinformation' get onto hernativeroots.com itself?   'About us' page from 2006 (http://web.archive.org/web/20060810223053/www.hernativeroots.com/retailer/store_templates/ret_about_us.asp?storeID=5DRLJ52RTCSR2LHC0G03N0ET9DFGAPV2)

Quote
HNR's Founder AmyLee:
AmyLee is the last in her Lineage of Medicine Women. For over 22 years she has been a licensed Wildlife Rehabilitator, an Orator and writer on Native American Indian Healing Ways.

It doesn't say 'product-line founder' there. It says 'Founder'.


Quote from: JB Wingo
...regardless if it was an error which could mislead the public about their products, a blog in which a well meaning customer may have over-spoken the merits of their products or overstated credits of someone affiliated with the corporation...

Or Amylee herself, on another archived page from 2006 (http://web.archive.org/web/20060826022948/http://www.briansprediction.com/dd/2967.htm):

Quote
At the same time you were dreaming about the Bird Flu and the Native American Indian Remedy for it, I was working away on my websites, one a public service site to help prepare people for the pandemic. www.BirdFluShopper.com will continue to carry the best sources of info on this global threat.
 
As a Native American Indian Medicine Woman, frustrated by the careless and costly and nearly worthless glut of herbal products on the market, I founded www.HerNativeRoots.com as an interactive health and well-being research site as well as the place to get my own herbal line of ethically wildcrafted and certified organic herbal formulae - including ANTI-PLAGUE FLORMULA, which INCLUDES THE INGREDIENTS FROM YOUR DREAM.
 
Pardon me if I am not so terribly surprised that you have been 'dreaming me,' as I am Iroquois...

How did that happen?

Quote from: JB Wingo
Many, but not yet all, of the quotes from sites which over-state AmyLee’s merits or that party’s relationship to her (such as calling her their ‘Teacher’ or referring to her as an “Elder??? ) have indeed been removed.

How come so many people made all these 'mistakes'? So many that someone had to be hired to get them removed? Incidentally what is the name of this online reputation service?

Quote from: JB Wingo
It is curious that this forum in its paranoia considers “corrections of falsehoods, replacing them with fact??? to somehow be “suspicious!???

They are not replaced with fact. They are simply removed - or replaced with something that, while not actionable, still implies what she used to just say outright: that she is a "Native American Indian Medicine Woman".

Quote
...I can assure you that the Administrators of this forum WILL be contacted by cyber-defamation Attorney Domingo Rivera, who now officially represents TALON, et al. (Still don’t believe me? CALL HIM!)

We'll wait for him to get in touch.

Quote from: JB Wingo
...your attempt to pigeon-hole her as “New Age??? makes little sense.

It makes perfect sense when you read McFadden's book.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: SouthwestSkeptic on October 16, 2008, 03:14:58 pm
I Rose Garcia, of Tucson Arizona say that the person using the name Amylee is a fraud.

The term "Medicine woman" means only one thing to Native people.


I say Amylee deliberately misrepresented herself as a "Medicine woman" in order to defraud white feminists.

I say that Amylee knows full well that she is Caucasian and she has engaged in deliberate fraud and misrepresentation.

I say that Amylee knows that she is NO "Medicine woman" and that she cannot prove that she has one drop of Native blood.

I say that Amylee is not even enrolled in any federally recognized Indian Nation.

I say that Hawk Hollow is a fraudlent nonprofit organization that should have its tax exempt status revoked.

I say the IRS needs to look at Amylees tax returns for the last 30 years!


If Amylee is sooooooooooooo native, then why doesn't she settle this matter in the proper place -- TRIBAL COURT!

I am willing to take on Amylee in ANY TRIBAL COURT in North America.

You say the date and you say the time. I'll be there with my proof!

I will happily defend myself, but in TRIBAL COURT where REAL INDIANS do things, not in the whiteman's court!!!!

So come on you big fraud. State your tribe. State your nation and do things the NDN way!



Rose
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: MikePutfus on October 20, 2008, 04:41:24 am
I had to smile when I read the threat. I may be an old N 'dee from the White Mountains, but I have recieved a lot of them over the years. I like the young ladies idea of settling it in a Tribal Court. Something I have never thought of.  I think this would be outstanding if she can prove she is enrolled in any Tribe. If she is not, and selling any product to include herself claiming it's American Indian or Native American. Then she is breaking the law here in the United States. I believe there are some good fines and jail time for that.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: MikePutfus on October 20, 2008, 05:21:11 am
I come back and there are twinkies (dating myself) all over the place. Even McFadden posting. This group is doing great drawing them out of the woodwork like the roaches they are. To long have they been making money off of selling false make believe information telling the public it comes from our culture. Wish there was more in the main stream going out about these people to see. Would it be OK if I asked if Apache Moccasin Newspaper ran a link to this site or if you have a site running that names all these fakes? I think a few thousand folks on the reservation would love it. Hell I don't know why Indianz.com and the rest don't post these people.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: SouthwestSkeptic on October 23, 2008, 11:18:46 am
Mike,

Thanx for the support!  I used to read your posts over on alt.native when I was in high school whenever I got to use the computers -- you're one of my intellectual elders.

Lots of ppl have tried to post lists of frauds, but their sites keep getting shut down - especially in the post 9-11 criticizing any business in unpatriotic -  climate.

The most comprehensive one I know of is the Nuage Tricksters Offenders list out of Canada. They combined the old AIM list with the old Iktome list and the DPTP list.  It needs lots of updating. 

Here's the link:

http://ca.geocities.com/nuage_tricksters/offenders2005.html

There's a lot of the people on this list in the frauds section of this forum.

Coincidentally, all the frauds from "Profiles in Wisdom" -
Amylee, O Shinnah, Medicine Story, Sunbear, Gramma Twyla etc have been on this list since 2003.


I've spoken with a lot of natives who think it would be great if everyone running a fraud site had a central clearing house to post info in a user friendly way. In Tucson, there's a large group of Native UofA students who have been working on collaboration with Native groups across the U.S. and Canada. They're trying to put up a "rate the new age guru" style web site and/or blog that would be searchable and organized both alphabetically and geographically and include analysis for the clueless on why the individuals listed are not authentic representatives of native spiritual practices.  Anybody could post commentary or analysis.

I'm sure they'd love any input on how to go about it.

You can email them your ideas at

 iktome.returns@gmail.com

They also have a MySpace and a YouTube channel.


Rose
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: FACTS, ANYONE? on October 23, 2008, 08:30:16 pm
[IMPORTANT NOTE:
FA is none other than John Martin AKA Tallsoldier77 and more than two dozen other sockpuppet IDs. The IP of FA matches that of others used by Martin.

Martin a violent fanatic supporter of white supremacist David Yeagley and associate of Nuage promoter John Lekay.

It seems that Mr. Martin has added Amylee to the list of Nuage frauds and imposters he defends.]



"If she is not (enrolled), and selling any product to include herself claiming it's American Indian or Native American. Then she is breaking the law here in the United States. I believe there are some good fines and jail time for that.... " Mike Putfus

FACT:  Ms. AmyLee is NOT making and selling any Products herself.  Hence, she is not violating the The Indian Arts and Crafts Act of 1990. Any products she speaks of, she is doing so on behalf of a corporation. Regardless, AmyLee has never stated that any product offered by the corporation was "American Indian Made." The Indian Arts and Crafts Act pertains only to those arts and crafts which could be construed as being American Indian in origin, and must thus be clearly marked if they are not made by American Indians.

FACT: Bottled Herbs are not considered a traditional American Indian Made Art or Craft. (Philosophy aside, that is the fact of law.) Her Native Roots Herbals have been offered TO Native Americans for free or at cost. Her Native Roots are NOT being promoted as an "Indian Product, produced by Indians, nor belonging to a specific Tribe nor Indian Arts and Crafts organization."

FACT: TALON, Inc., the corporation which owns the herbal product line called Her Native Roots  does not claim to be selling "American Indian Made" Products. Their website clearly defines "Her" as referring to the Mother Earth; "Native" as referring to the indigenous plants of North, Central and South America; and "Roots" being the herbs themselves. TALON, Inc. is not violating the Indian Arts and Crafts Act of 1990. 

FACT: The Traditional Mohawk Community of Kanatsiohareke consigned Her Native Roots Herbals to custom create products for them - at no profit to the corporation; (perhaps that is how the incorrect conclusion was drawn that the products were "Indian made?" They are not.).  www.HerNativeRoots.com

FACT: AmyLee co-created that product formula for the Mohawk Community. She developed the "recipe" but does not produce the products alone, therefore the products are not being marketed as "Indian Made." The Indian Arts and Crafts Act only pertains to those Arts and Crafts objects which are falsely promoted as being "Indian made." Her Native Roots Herbals has never claimed to be "Indian made" ; instead they are "made for Indians!" (They are also offered to the general public, with the profits used to further support Native and Environmental projects.)

FACT: Contrary to Ms. Garcia's wishes,  as posted in Reply #43  the Indian Arts and Crafts Act does not include anything but Arts and Crafts objects - and does not include "services" as much as Ms. Garcia would like it to.  Regardless, neither Ms. AmyLee nor TALON, Inc. are selling anything nor selling any services in violation of the Indian Arts and Crafts Act.

FACT: No where did I read a post that TALON's attorney was "threatening to sue" anyone.  The post only assures the Moderators and Readers that the attorney will be in contact. It is reasonable to deduct that to mean that the cyber-defamation attorney will follow due process and contact you with a request to correct or delete the fraudulant thread. One can reasonably presume that after due process is served, if not satisfied, the time to propose litigation may ensue, if there have been laws violated by this forum and/or its posters. (Even IF litigation is on his mind, he would FIRST follow the established protocol of contacting you with a request to remove the fraudulant and defaming thread, and if refused, you already know he has other options he would likely execute prior to suggesting protracted litigation to his clients.)

FACT: FYI - Character Defamation, Identity Theft, Fraud, Libel, Slander, Threat, Conspiracy, Copyright Infringement are all actionable grounds for litigation. But again, I did not read any post here stating that litigation on any of those grounds was the next logical step. Indeed, to pursue litigation before contacting you with a removal request would weaken the merits of any suit. I read the post to mean that you can expect to hear from TALON'S attorney with a removal request.

FACT: To repeat, as it appears necessary, neither Ms. AmyLee nor TALON, Inc. which owns Her Native Roots Herbals, have violated the Indian Arts and Crafts Act. Both United States and Tribal Courts would thus rule in favor of Ms. AmyLee and TALON, Inc. in this matter of selling objects in violation of the Indian Arts and Crafts Act.

FACT: To continue to wrongfully and unwarrantably accuse either Ms. AmyLee or TALON, Inc.  of violating the Indian Arts and Crafts Act without basis in fact, is fraudulant and willfully misleading.

Those are the FACTS, for anyone interested. (I'm certain someone is.)
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: educatedindian on October 24, 2008, 03:22:32 am
In other words, you're saying she didn't break the law because-
A) she doesn't claim to be Native on the company site
B) the site doesn't really claim to be selling anything Native either
C) there are loopholes in IACA the company is able to weasel around.

None of those are exactly the high moral ground you're claiming.

And the claim of a lawyer still leaves me underwhelmed. Again, there's not even any proof the company has one.

Nice of you to backpedal though.

FACT- Scwartz still has no proof she is who she claims to be, and lots of evidence against it.

I was sent geneaology of Amylee Schwartz's family lines. They've been traced all the way back to Europe, every last one of them.
----------------------------

MOTHER
http://www.genealogybuff.com/oh/oh-portage-obits43.htm
Name: Evelyn Mae (Johnson) Swartz biological daughter of Berth Mae (Hunt) Johnson and Charles Elmo Johnson
Birth Date: 19 March 1924 (Historical Events)
Death Date: 24 March 1999 (Historical Events)
Issuing State: Ohio
Residence at Death: Ravenna,Portage,Ohio 44266
Death Benefit Place: Kent,Portage,Ohio 44240
SSN: [removed]
FATHER
Name: David Lee Swartz (Ferris) adopted
Birth Date: 04 February 1926 (Historical Events)
Death Date: October 1979 (Historical Events)
Issuing State: Ohio
Residence at Death: Ravenna,Portage,Ohio 44266
Death Benefit Place: Kent,Portage,Ohio 44240
SSN: [removed]
http://www.worldvitalrecords.com/SingleIndexIndView.aspx?ix=ssdiall&hpp=1&rf=*,z*&qt=i&zassn=274&zgssn=26&zsssn=4963&highlight=Swartz%2cDavid%2cohio
David Swartz was found in our data volume Ohio, 1780-1970 County & Family Histories



MATERNAL GRANDMOTHER
Name: Bertha Mae (Hunt) Johnson
Birth Date: 04 April 1893 (Historical Events)
Death Date: October 1973 (Historical Events)
Issuing State: Ohio
Residence at Death: Kent,Portage,Ohio 44240
SSN: [removed]
MATERNAL GRANDFATHER
Name: Charles  Elmo Johnson
Birth Date: 05 October 1905 (Historical Events)
Death Date: January 1981 (Historical Events)
Issuing State: Ohio
Residence at Death: Ravenna,Portage,Ohio 44266
SSN: [removed]
DEATH CERT
http://ohsweb.ohiohistory.org/death//results.cfm



http://www.genealogybuff.com/oh/oh-portage-obits43.htm
MATERNAL GRANDMOTHER
Bertha Mae Johnson
Born 4/4/1893
East Fallowfield Township
Crawford Pennsylvania
 
Name: Bertha Johnson
Birth Date: 04 April 1893
Death Date: October 1973
Issuing State: Ohio
Residence at Death: Kent,Portage,Ohio 44240
SSN: [removed]
Name:   Bertha Mae Hunt
Birth:    4 Apr 1893 in East Fallowfield Twp, Crawford Co, Pennsylvania, USA
Death:    16 Oct 1973 in Kent, Portage, Ohio, USA
 
UNCLE ?
Name: Elliot Johnson
Birth Date: 28 September 1896
Death Date: March 1966
Issuing State: Ohio
Residence at Death: Columbus,Franklin,Ohio 43215
SSN: [removed]
 
UNCLE ?
Name: Homer Johnson
Birth Date: 20 April 1903
Death Date: August 1987 I
ssuing State: Ohio
Residence at Death: Columbus,Franklin,Ohio 43203
SSN: [removed]
MATERNAL GRANDFATHER
Name: Charles Johnson
Birth Date: 05 October 1905
Death Date: January 1981
Issuing State: Ohio
Residence at Death: Ravenna,Portage,Ohio 44266
SSN: [removed]
DEATH CERT
http://ohsweb.ohiohistory.org/death//results.cfm
MATERNAL GREAT GRANDMOTHER (possible)
Margaret Jackson

Great Grand Father
 Jerimiah Jackson
b. October 23, 1816, d. September 12, 1895
Jerimiah Jackson (son of Abraham Jackson and Elizabeth Gelvin) was born October 23, 1816 in East Fallowfield Township, Crawford County, PA, and died September 12, 1895 in East Fallowfield Township, Crawford County, PA. He married Martha Elliott on Abt. 1845 in Crawford County, Pennsylvania, daughter of Thomas Elliott.

More About Jerimiah Jackson:
Date born 2: October 23, 1816
Burial: September 1895, Jackson Cemetary, East Fallowfield Twp, Crawford County, PA.

More About Jerimiah Jackson and Martha Elliott:
Marriage: Abt. 1845, Crawford County, Pennsylvania.

Children of Jerimiah Jackson and Martha Elliott are:
i.   Abraham M. Jackson, b. Abt. 1844, d. February 26, 1873, East Fallowfield Township, Crawford County, PA.
ii.   Elizabeth Jackson, b. Abt. 1845.
iii.   +Margaret Jackson, b. February 1847, East Fallowfield Township, Crawford County, PA, d., Cortland, OH.
iv.   William Jackson, b. Abt. 1849, d. January 18, 1869, East Fallowfield Township, Crawford County, PA.
v.   Martha J Jackson, b. Abt. 1851, East Fallowfield Township, Crawford County, PA, d. February 07, 1880, East Fallowfield Township, Crawford County, PA.
vi.   Sarah S. Jackson, b. Abt. 1853.
vii.   John C. Jackson, b. Abt. 1859.
viii.   Henry L. Jackson, b. Abt. 1864.

Source: http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/r/i/d/Jo-ann-Ridgeway/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0015.html
Source: http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=Search&includedb=&lang=en&ti=&surname=jackson&stype=Soundex&given=jerimiah&bplace=Pennsylvania&byear=1816&brange=10&dplace=&dyear=1895&drange=20&mplace=&myear=&mrange=0&father=&mother=&spouse=&skipdb=&period=All&fuzzy=Y&submit.x=Search

2nd Great Grandmother
Martha Elliott (b. November 15, 1824, d. November 15, 1899)
Martha Elliott (daughter of Thomas Elliott) was born November 15, 1824 in PA, and died November 15, 1899 in East Fallowfield Township, Crawford County, PA. She married Jerimiah Jackson on Abt. 1845 in Crawford County, Pennsylvania, son of Abraham Jackson and Elizabeth Gelvin.

More About Martha Elliott:
Burial: November 1899, Jackson Cemetary, East Fallowfield Twp, Crawford County, PA.

More About Martha Elliott and Jerimiah Jackson:
Marriage: Abt. 1845, Crawford County, Pennsylvania.

Children of Martha Elliott and Jerimiah Jackson are:
i.   Abraham M. Jackson, b. Abt. 1844, d. February 26, 1873, East Fallowfield Township, Crawford County, PA.
ii.   Elizabeth Jackson, b. Abt. 1845.
iii.   +Margaret Jackson, b. February 1847, East Fallowfield Township, Crawford County, PA, d., Cortland, OH.
iv.   William Jackson, b. Abt. 1849, d. January 18, 1869, East Fallowfield Township, Crawford County, PA.
v.   Martha J Jackson, b. Abt. 1851, East Fallowfield Township, Crawford County, PA, d. February 07, 1880, East Fallowfield Township, Crawford County, PA.
vi.   Sarah S. Jackson, b. Abt. 1853.
vii.   John C. Jackson, b. Abt. 1859.
viii.   Henry L. Jackson, b. Abt. 1864.

Source: http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/r/i/d/Jo-ann-Ridgeway/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0016.html
SOURCE:
http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:2290419&id=I016

2nd Great Grandmother
Elizabeth Thomas
Elizabeth Thomas. She married Samuel Pancoast Hunt, son of Joshua Hunt and Rachel Ross.

Children of Elizabeth Thomas and Samuel Pancoast Hunt are:
i.   Thomas Hunt, b. June 22, 1834.
ii.   John E. Hunt, b. June 22, 1836.
iii.   Elizabeth Hunt, b. Abt. 1840.
iv.   Martha B. Hunt, b. Abt. 1843.
v.   Rachel Hunt, b. Abt. 1845.
vi.   +Samuel P. Hunt, b. August 07, 1848, Morrow (town), Warren County, Ohio.
Source: http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/r/i/d/Jo-ann-Ridgeway/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0400.html

2nd Great Grandfather
Samuel Pancoast Hunt (b. June 04, 1802)
Samuel Pancoast Hunt (son of Joshua Hunt and Rachel Ross) was born June 04, 1802 in Connellsville, Fayette County, Pennsylvania. He married Elizabeth Thomas.

More About Samuel Pancoast Hunt:
Occupation: 1850, Physician, Morrow, Ohio.

Children of Samuel Pancoast Hunt and Elizabeth Thomas are:
i.   Thomas Hunt, b. June 22, 1834.
ii.   John E. Hunt, b. June 22, 1836.
iii.   Elizabeth Hunt, b. Abt. 1840.
iv.   Martha B. Hunt, b. Abt. 1843.
v.   Rachel Hunt, b. Abt. 1845.
vi.   +Samuel P. Hunt, b. August 07, 1848, Morrow (town), Warren County, Ohio.

Source:

3rd Great Grandmother
Rachel Ross
Born: 6/4/1802
Rachel Ross. She married Joshua Hunt, son of Robert Hunt and Abigail Pancoast.

Children of Rachel Ross and Joshua Hunt are:
i.   +Samuel Pancoast Hunt, b. June 04, 1802, Connellsville, Fayette County, Pennsylvania.
ii.   Source: http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/r/i/d/Jo-ann-Ridgeway/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0429.html
3rd Great Grandfather
Joshua Hunt b. abt. 1766
Joshua Hunt (son of Robert Hunt and Abigail Pancoast) was born Abt. 1766 in Belmont County, Evesham Township, Burlington, New Jersey, died in Barnesville OH. He married Rachel Ross.

Children of Joshua Hunt and Rachel Ross are:
i.   +Samuel Pancoast Hunt, b. June 04, 1802, Connellsville, Fayette County, Pennsylvania.
Source: http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/r/i/d/Jo-ann-Ridgeway/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0406.html

3rd Great Grandfather
Thomas Elliot
Thomas Elliottwas born in Stb Crawford County, Pa.

Children of Thomas Elliott are:
i.   +Martha Elliott, b. November 15, 1824, PA, d. November 15, 1899, East Fallowfield Township, Crawford County, PA.

http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/r/i/d/Jo-ann-Ridgeway/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0398.html

3rd Great Grandmother
Elizabeth Gelvin (b. 1794, d. 1876)
Elizabeth Gelvin (daughter of Jerimiah Gelvin and Unknown) was born 1794 in Maryland, and died 1876 in East Fallowfield Township, Crawford County, PA. She married Abraham Jackson on Abt. 1816 in East Fallowfield Twp, Crawford County, PA.

 Notes for Elizabeth Gelvin:
Living with son Abel in 1860 census.

More About Elizabeth Gelvin:
Burial: Jackson Cemetary, East Fallowfield Twp, Crawford County, PA.

More About Elizabeth Gelvin and Abraham Jackson:
Marriage: Abt. 1816, East Fallowfield Twp, Crawford County, PA.

Children of Elizabeth Gelvin and Abraham Jackson are:
i.   +Jerimiah Jackson, b. October 23, 1816, East Fallowfield Township, Crawford County, PA, d. September 12, 1895, East Fallowfield Township, Crawford County, PA.
ii.   +John P. Jackson, b. Abt. 1818, East Fallowfield Township, Crawford County, PA.
iii.   +William W. Jackson, b. 1819, East Fallowfield Township, Crawford County, PA.
iv.   Mary Jackson, b. 1825.
v.   +Abel Jackson, b. 1829, East Fallowfield Township, Crawford County, PA, d. Aft. 1880, East Fallowfield Township, Crawford County, PA.
vi.   Elizabeth Jackson, b. 1833.
Source: http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/r/i/d/Jo-ann-Ridgeway/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0118.html

4th Great Grandfather
Jerimiah Gelvin
Jerimiah Gelvin
B 1794 – 1876
BORN IN IRELAND Jerimiah Gelvinwas born in Ireland. He married Unknown in Maryland.

  Notes for Jerimiah Gelvin:
Sometime between 1817 and 1819, Jerimiah Gelvin's wife and infant son were frozen to death in a winter storm when Mrs. Gelvin lost her way when attempting to go from one cabin to another during the storm. In 1817, a young daughter was lost in the woods after visiting her uncle, James Gelvin, where she was given some peaches that she wanted to take home to her mother who was ill. She moved off the known path to avoid another cabin where she thought some of the children would accost her and demand the peaches. Abraham Jackson, who married her sister Elizabeth, found her remains a year or two later beside a log. Identification was made by the clothes she was wearing.

More About Jerimiah Gelvin:
Burial: East Fallowfield Township, Crawford County, PA.

More About Jerimiah Gelvin and Unknown:
Marriage: Maryland.

Children of Jerimiah Gelvin and Unknown are:
i.   +Elizabeth Gelvin, b. 1794, Maryland, d. 1876, East Fallowfield Township, Crawford County, PA.


SOURCE: http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/r/i/d/Jo-ann-Ridgeway/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0607.html

4th Great Grandfather
Robert Hunt
Robert Hunt (b. June 01, 1745, d. November 02, 1805)
Robert Hunt (son of Robert Hunt and Abigail Wood) was born June 01, 1745 in New Jersey, and died November 02, 1805 in Ohio. He married Abigail Pancoast on December 19, 1765 in Makefield, Bucks, PA, daughter of Samuel Pancoast and Abigail Copeland.

More About Robert Hunt and Abigail Pancoast:
Marriage: December 19, 1765, Makefield, Bucks, PA.

Children of Robert Hunt and Abigail Pancoast are:
i.   +Joshua Hunt, b. Abt. 1766, Belmont County, Evesham Township, Burlington, New Jersey, d., Barnesville OH.
ii.   William Hunt, b. Abt. 1767, Evesham Twp, Burlington, New Jersey, d., Salem, Ohio.
iii.   Samuel Hunt, b. Abt. 1770, Evesham Twp, Burlington, New Jersey, d. Abt. 1830, Ohio.
iv.   Joseph Hunt, b. Abt. 1775.
v.   Abigail Hunt, b. Abt. 1781, Evesham Twp, Burlington, New Jersey, d., Wooster, Wayne, Ohio.
vi.   John Hunt, b. Abt. 1782, Evesham Twp, Burlington, New Jersey, d. 1813.
vii.   Mary Hunt, b. July 25, 1768, d. September 07, 1818, Salem, Ohio.
Source: http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/r/i/d/Jo-ann-Ridgeway/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0407.html

4th Great Grandmother
Abigail Pancoast
b. 1766 New Jersey
Abigail Pancoast (b. February 20, 1742/43, d. Abt. 1827)
Abigail Pancoast (daughter of Samuel Pancoast and Abigail Copeland) was born February 20, 1742/43 in Solebury Township, Bucks County, PA, and died Abt. 1827 in Millersbury or Massilion, OH. She married Robert Hunt on December 19, 1765 in Makefield, Bucks, PA, son of Robert Hunt and Abigail Wood.

More About Abigail Pancoast and Robert Hunt:
Marriage: December 19, 1765, Makefield, Bucks, PA.

Children of Abigail Pancoast and Robert Hunt are:
i.   +Joshua Hunt, b. Abt. 1766, Belmont County, Evesham Township, Burlington, New Jersey, d., Barnesville OH.
ii.   William Hunt, b. Abt. 1767, Evesham Twp, Burlington, New Jersey, d., Salem, Ohio.
iii.   Samuel Hunt, b. Abt. 1770, Evesham Twp, Burlington, New Jersey, d. Abt. 1830, Ohio.
iv.   Joseph Hunt, b. Abt. 1775.
v.   Abigail Hunt, b. Abt. 1781, Evesham Twp, Burlington, New Jersey, d., Wooster, Wayne, Ohio.
vi.   John Hunt, b. Abt. 1782, Evesham Twp, Burlington, New Jersey, d. 1813.
vii.   Mary Hunt, b. July 25, 1768, d. September 07, 1818, Salem, Ohio.
Source: http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/r/i/d/Jo-ann-Ridgeway/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0408.html

5th Great Grandfather
Samuel Pancoast Hunt
B 1708
Samuel Pancoast Hunt (b. June 04, 1802)
Samuel Pancoast Hunt (son of Joshua Hunt and Rachel Ross) was born June 04, 1802 in Connellsville, Fayette County, Pennsylvania. He married Elizabeth Thomas.

More About Samuel Pancoast Hunt:
Occupation: 1850, Physician, Morrow, Ohio.

Children of Samuel Pancoast Hunt and Elizabeth Thomas are:
i.   Thomas Hunt, b. June 22, 1834.
ii.   John E. Hunt, b. June 22, 1836.
iii.   Elizabeth Hunt, b. Abt. 1840.
iv.   Martha B. Hunt, b. Abt. 1843.
v.   Rachel Hunt, b. Abt. 1845.
vi.   +Samuel P. Hunt, b. August 07, 1848, Morrow (town), Warren County, Ohio.
Source: http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/r/i/d/Jo-ann-Ridgeway/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0399.html


5th Great Grandmother
Abigail Copeland
B 1710 Pennsylvania
Abigail Copeland (b. Abt. 1710)
Abigail Copeland was born Abt. 1710 in Chester, PA. She married Samuel Pancoast on March 28, 1734 in Chesterfield, Mm, Burlington, New Jersey.

More About Abigail Copeland and Samuel Pancoast:
Marriage: March 28, 1734, Chesterfield, Mm, Burlington, New Jersey.

Children of Abigail Copeland and Samuel Pancoast are:
i.   Asa Pancoast, b. May 26, 1735, d. September 18, 1836, Mansfield Township, Burlington, New Jersey.
ii.   Joshua Pancoast, b. April 02, 1737, d. October 27, 1769, Philadelphia, PA.
iii.   Hannah Pancoast, b. April 02, 1739.
iv.   Agnes Pancoast, b. August 26, 1741.
v.   +Abigail Pancoast, b. February 20, 1742/43, Solebury Township, Bucks County, PA, d. Abt. 1827, Millersbury or Massilion, OH.
vi.   Samuel Pancoast, b. October 20, 1745.
vii.   Sarah Pancoast, b. February 20, 1747/48, d. February 23, 1749/50, Solebury Township, Bucks County, PA.

SOURCE: http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/r/i/d/Jo-ann-Ridgeway/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0416.html

5th Great Grandmother
Abigail Wood
B 1715
Abigail Wood (b. Abt. 1715, d. February 22, 1746/47)
Abigail Wood (daughter of Benjamin Wood and Elizabeth Mary Kay) was born Abt. 1715 in New Jersey, and died February 22, 1746/47 in Evesham Twp, Burlington, New Jersey. She married Robert Hunt on December 19, 1733 in Gloucester, New Jersey.

More About Abigail Wood and Robert Hunt:
Marriage: December 19, 1733, Gloucester, New Jersey.

Children of Abigail Wood and Robert Hunt are:
i.   +Robert Hunt, b. June 01, 1745, New Jersey, d. November 02, 1805, Ohio.
ii.   Abigail Hunt, b. February 26, 1736/37.
iii.   John Hunt, b. June 05, 1740.

Source: http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/r/i/d/Jo-ann-Ridgeway/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0424.html

5th Great Grandmother
Abigail Wood
•  Birth: ABT. 1715 in New Jersey
•  Death: 22 FEB 1746/47 in Evesham Twp, Burlington, New Jersey
SOURCE: http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:2290419&id=I424

5th Great Grandfather
Robert Hunt
Robert Hunt (b. February 21, 1708/09, d. February 29, 1764)
Robert Hunt was born February 21, 1708/09 in New Jersey, and died February 29, 1764 in Evesham Twp, Burlington, New Jersey. He married Abigail Wood on December 19, 1733 in Gloucester, New Jersey, daughter of Benjamin Wood and Elizabeth Mary Kay.

More About Robert Hunt and Abigail Wood:
Marriage: December 19, 1733, Gloucester, New Jersey.

Children of Robert Hunt and Abigail Wood are:
i.   +Robert Hunt, b. June 01, 1745, New Jersey, d. November 02, 1805, Ohio.
ii.   Abigail Hunt, b. February 26, 1736/37.
iii.   John Hunt, b. June 05, 1740.
iv.   •  Birth: 21 FEB 1708/09 in New Jersey
•  Death: 29 FEB 1764 in Evesham Twp, Burlington, New Jersey

Source: http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/r/i/d/Jo-ann-Ridgeway/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0423.html

Source: http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:2290419&id=I423

SOURCE: http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=albatross_domain&id=I1809
DESCENDENCY: http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=DESC&db=albatross_domain&id=I1809

5th Great Grandmother
Abigail Copeland
Spouce: William Pancoast Hunt
Birth: ABT 1710 in , Chester, Pennsylvania
http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:2148633&id=I1330
SOURCE: http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:2422431&id=I517858266

5th Great Grandfather
Samuel Pancoast
Birth: Abt 1708
SOURCE: http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:2422431&id=I517858024

6th Great Grandfather
William Copeland spouse Agnes ? b 1680 in PA
B 1675 Yorkshire PA
•  William COPELAND
•  Sex: M
•  ALIA: William /Cowpland/
•  Birth: ABT 1675 in Yorkshire, England
•  Death: in , Chester, Pennsylvania,
•  Reference Number: 40283
SOURCE: http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=tonycairns&id=I040283
DESCENDENCY: http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=DESC&db=tonycairns&id=I040283

Agnes married to William Copeland
Descendency
http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=DESC&db=tonycairns&id=I040284

6th Great Grandmother
Agnes Copeland
Spouce: William Copeland born 1675 Pennsylvania
Born 1680 Lancaster PA
SOUCE: http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:2148633&id=I305

6th Great Grandfather
William Copeland
Born 1675 Death: in , Chester, Pennsylvania
SOURCE: http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:2148633&id=I312
Descendency: http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=DESC&db=:2148633&id=I312

6th Great Grandmother ENGLAND
Hannah Scattergood
B 1670 London England
•  HANNAH SCATTERGOOD
•  Given Name: HANNAH
•  Surname: SCATTERGOOD
•  Sex: F
•  Birth: 1670 in Parish of Stepney, London, England
•  Death: Wft Est 1701-1770 in Burlington, 8, NJ
SOURCE: http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:2422431&id=I517856776

7th Great Grandmother ENGLAND
Elizabeth Jarvis
B 1645 London England
•  Elizabeth JARVIS
•  Given Name: Elizabeth
•  Surname: Jarvis
•  Sex: F
•  Birth: Abt 1645 in Stepney Parish, London
http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:2422431&id=I517857389

7th Great Grandfather ENGLAND
Thomas Scattergood
B 1639
London England
•  Thomas
•  Surname: Scattergood
•  Sex: M
•  Birth: Abt 1639 in Parish of Stepney, London, England
•  Death: 3 Nov 1697 in Mansfield Twp, Burlington, New Jersey
•  Note:
SOURCE: http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:2422431&id=I517857390

DECENDENCY:
http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=DESC&db=:2422431&id=I517857390

English Great grandparents: SOURCE: http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:2422431&id=I517858024

6th Great Grandfather ENGLAND
William Pancoast Sr.
B 1665 Northhamptonshire England
Source: http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:2422431&id=I517858024

7th Great Grandfather
B 1706
Benjamin Wood
Benjamin Wood (b. Bef. 1706, d. Abt. 1738)
Benjamin Wood was born Bef. 1706 in Northamptonshire, England, and died Abt. 1738. He married Elizabeth Mary Kay.

Children of Benjamin Wood and Elizabeth Mary Kay are:
i.   +Abigail Wood, b. Abt. 1715, New Jersey, d. February 22, 1746/47, Evesham Twp, Burlington, New Jersey.

SOURCE: http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/r/i/d/Jo-ann-Ridgeway/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0427.html
Born in ENGLAND
SOURCE: http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:2290419&id=I427

6th Great Grandmother
Elizabeth Mary Kay
B 1710
Elizabeth Mary Kay (b. Bef. 1710, d. Aft. 1738)
Elizabeth Mary Kay was born Bef. 1710 in New Jersey, and died Aft. 1738. She married Benjamin Wood.

Children of Elizabeth Mary Kay and Benjamin Wood are:
i.   +Abigail Wood, b. Abt. 1715, New Jersey, d. February 22, 1746/47, Evesham Twp, Burlington, New Jersey.
SOURCE: http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/r/i/d/Jo-ann-Ridgeway/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0428.html
SOURCE: http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:2290419&id=I428

7th great grandfather
Jerimiah Gelvin
http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=col_megibben&id=I3
•  Jeremiah GELVIN
•  Sex: M
•  Birth: 2 MAY 1788 in Franklin Co.,Pa.
•  Death: 1862 in Clermont Co.,Oh.
•  Note: Served in war of 1812, with his Brother James of Ripley co., Ind. Was a carpenter.
•  Change Date: 28 DEC 2003 at 09:59:37

Father: James GELVIN b: Abt 1750
Mother: Nancy ?

Marriage 1 Elizabeth MCGINNESS b: 1793 in Straunton,Augusta Co.,Virgina
Children
1.    Emily GELVIN b: 26 MAY 1811 in West Town,Chester,Pennsylvania
2.    William GELVIN b: 4 AUG 1813
3.    Martha GELVIN b: 15 OCT 1815
4.    Margaret GELVIN b: 17 JAN 1817
5.    Elizabeth GELVIN b: 17 MAR 1820
6.    John GELVIN b: 4 MAY 1822
SOURCE: http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=col_megibben&id=I3
•  Jeremiah GELVIN

8th Great Grandfather James Gelvin
B 1750
•  Abt 1750
•  Death: 1830/1840
•  Note: Was a farmer, served in the Revolutionary War, as a Private Second Class, under Capt. Joseph Culbertson's Third Company, Fourth Battalion, Cumberland Co. Militia. Later moved to Clermont Co., Oh.
•  Change Date: 28 DEC 2003 at 09:56:17

Father: Jeremiah GELVIN b: Abt 1724
Mother: Hannah ?

Marriage 1 Nancy ?
http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=col_megibben&id=I30

9th Great Grandmother
Hannah?
Source: http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=col_megibben&id=I64
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Superdog on October 24, 2008, 11:59:29 am
"If she is not (enrolled), and selling any product to include herself claiming it's American Indian or Native American. Then she is breaking the law here in the United States. I believe there are some good fines and jail time for that.... " Mike Putfus

FACT:  Ms. AmyLee is NOT making and selling any Products herself.  Hence, she is not violating the The Indian Arts and Crafts Act of 1990. Any products she speaks of, she is doing so on behalf of a corporation. Regardless, AmyLee has never stated that any product offered by the corporation was "American Indian Made." The Indian Arts and Crafts Act pertains only to those arts and crafts which could be construed as being American Indian in origin, and must thus be clearly marked if they are not made by American Indians.

FACT: Bottled Herbs are not considered a traditional American Indian Made Art or Craft. (Philosophy aside, that is the fact of law.) Her Native Roots Herbals have been offered TO Native Americans for free or at cost. Her Native Roots are NOT being promoted as an "Indian Product, produced by Indians, nor belonging to a specific Tribe nor Indian Arts and Crafts organization."

FACT: TALON, Inc., the corporation which owns the herbal product line called Her Native Roots  does not claim to be selling "American Indian Made" Products. Their website clearly defines "Her" as referring to the Mother Earth; "Native" as referring to the indigenous plants of North, Central and South America; and "Roots" being the herbs themselves. TALON, Inc. is not violating the Indian Arts and Crafts Act of 1990. 

FACT: The Traditional Mohawk Community of Kanatsiohareke consigned Her Native Roots Herbals to custom create products for them - at no profit to the corporation; (perhaps that is how the incorrect conclusion was drawn that the products were "Indian made?" They are not.).  www.HerNativeRoots.com

FACT: AmyLee co-created that product formula for the Mohawk Community. She developed the "recipe" but does not produce the products alone, therefore the products are not being marketed as "Indian Made." The Indian Arts and Crafts Act only pertains to those Arts and Crafts objects which are falsely promoted as being "Indian made." Her Native Roots Herbals has never claimed to be "Indian made" ; instead they are "made for Indians!" (They are also offered to the general public, with the profits used to further support Native and Environmental projects.)

FACT: Contrary to Ms. Garcia's wishes,  as posted in Reply #43  the Indian Arts and Crafts Act does not include anything but Arts and Crafts objects - and does not include "services" as much as Ms. Garcia would like it to.  Regardless, neither Ms. AmyLee nor TALON, Inc. are selling anything nor selling any services in violation of the Indian Arts and Crafts Act.

FACT: No where did I read a post that TALON's attorney was "threatening to sue" anyone.  The post only assures the Moderators and Readers that the attorney will be in contact. It is reasonable to deduct that to mean that the cyber-defamation attorney will follow due process and contact you with a request to correct or delete the fraudulant thread. One can reasonably presume that after due process is served, if not satisfied, the time to propose litigation may ensue, if there have been laws violated by this forum and/or its posters. (Even IF litigation is on his mind, he would FIRST follow the established protocol of contacting you with a request to remove the fraudulant and defaming thread, and if refused, you already know he has other options he would likely execute prior to suggesting protracted litigation to his clients.)

FACT: FYI - Character Defamation, Identity Theft, Fraud, Libel, Slander, Threat, Conspiracy, Copyright Infringement are all actionable grounds for litigation. But again, I did not read any post here stating that litigation on any of those grounds was the next logical step. Indeed, to pursue litigation before contacting you with a removal request would weaken the merits of any suit. I read the post to mean that you can expect to hear from TALON'S attorney with a removal request.

FACT: To repeat, as it appears necessary, neither Ms. AmyLee nor TALON, Inc. which owns Her Native Roots Herbals, have violated the Indian Arts and Crafts Act. Both United States and Tribal Courts would thus rule in favor of Ms. AmyLee and TALON, Inc. in this matter of selling objects in violation of the Indian Arts and Crafts Act.

FACT: To continue to wrongfully and unwarrantably accuse either Ms. AmyLee or TALON, Inc.  of violating the Indian Arts and Crafts Act without basis in fact, is fraudulant and willfully misleading.

Those are the FACTS, for anyone interested. (I'm certain someone is.)

This is an excellent defense of someone who is not Native American, but is mistaken for a Native.

Was that your point here??  The tone of this argument here is "So what if she's not Native...she's not breaking any laws"

The only fact I keep coming back to is WHAT TRIBE IS SHE ENROLLED IN??????

People that claim to have known her for 30 years can't seem to answer that question.  Doesn't look good for Amylee...and that fact alone would get her name taken off this board....it would shut everyone up here, but none of her supporters can produce this information...

So yes....we are interested in facts.  WHAT TRIBE IS SHE ENROLLED IN????

Superdog
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: FACTS, ANYONE? on October 26, 2008, 12:19:32 am
[IMPORTANT NOTE:
FA is none other than John Martin AKA Tallsoldier77 and more than two dozen other sockpuppet IDs. The IP of FA matches that of others used by Martin.

Martin a violent fanatic supporter of white supremacist David Yeagley and associate of Nuage promoter John Lekay.

It seems that Mr. Martin has added Amylee to the list of Nuage frauds and imposters he defends.]



[Spam removed]

FACT: According to Educated Indian - he went to the time and expense of getting one of those computerized scams that gives you that system's best guess (more about that later) about a person named "Amylee Schwartz." WHAT? You can't even correctly spell the name of the imaginary person you are trying to research....
[Childish insults removed]

FACT: I have seen no FACTUAL information that Amylee Swartz OR Schwartz's biological geneology is remotely represented here.

FACT: [Childish insults removed, also falsehoods from white supremacists] IF we are to pretend to believe the information listed is somehow related to AmyLee - then we don't get too far into it without questioning Educated Indian's bold and daring declaration that "They've been traced all the way back to Europe, every last one of them."  The actual FACT comes in the second name  - her alleged Father - where it lists he was adopted.  ??? The buck stops right there. You have NOT traced that man's biological family anywhere - whether or not he was AmyLee's biological father. DEAD END - right here in Indian Country.

FACT: An earlier Poster assured us that the attorney has a "certified copy of AmyLee's Birth Certificate on which the name Swartz...nor any of its variations does NOT appear." There is no legitimate reason to disbelieve that person, then choose to believe this geneology report scam.

FACT:  I didn't chase this [Childish insult] much farther - because it's all null and void anyway. BUT just because FACT finding is my hobby - try this one: According to this  [Childishs insult] report, AmyLee's alleged biological Mother had two biological brothers - who were born to their shared Mother when that Mother giving birth to them was herself 3 years old - and the first brother was born 2 years before his own father was born. 

FACT: EVEN if ANY of this was factual - the report clearly notes that the Maternal Grandmother was a GUESS! The actual word they used was "possible" - this from the same expert geneology service which apparently knows little about gynocology - listing the uncles as born to a woman 3 years old and without their father's participation.

FACT: IF (and this is a real stretch to call it even a remote possibility) these people were really AmyLee's relatives - that still leaves this report showing an adopted father with an unknown ancestry and a Maternal Grandmother who is only recorded here as a "possibility."  That leaves a lot of room for Native Ancestry! The notion that this report serves as "evidence" anywhere but in this kangaroo court is beyond rational and reasonable, and only adds fuel to the allegations that this is a hate-forum, despite its own claims to the contrary. (Personally, I'd have been embarrassed to show people that I paid for this garbage.)

FACT: My own story - I personally know of and witnessed one of the more popular scams that to this day resurfaces - relatives of my buddy at that time came up with that idea on selling people's "Coat of Arms" - (am I dating myself? I was a kid) with an alleged description of what they stood for, all the heroic attributes that people wanted to buy for themselves - you know, to feel good about their colonizing kin who invaded North America, or their relatives that washed up at Ellis Island...well, I saw firsthand how that operation worked - and my buddy - whose relatives operated it on the sly from their attic in a posh upscale neighborhood - said it was a "total scam, totally bogus."  I am certain there are some legit options today - just as there are legit geneology services.
But- start out with the person's REAL name first. 
Second spell it correctly.

FACT: The links provided by the report do NOT match the (mis)information it generated.

FACT: For the historian - and for anyone thinking "enrollment" is a viable definition of who is and who isn't an American Indian, you might want to read the research done by Dr. B. Mann - Seneca, who details and substantiates the corrupt mishandling of the entire "enrollment" process. I'm not Indian, but I sure wouldn't be waving an "Enrollment" card around if I were one - not after reading the searing indictment of that corrupt system - complete with FACTual EVIDENCE - that proved how wealthy white land-grabbers ended up "enrolled" while entire groups of Native Americans were prohibited!  The [Childish insult] Indian and Historian, Dr. B Mann, offers impeccable research. [Falsehoods from white supremacists]

FACT: In my earlier post as in this post, I am not defending (nor am I denigrating)  AmyLee and TALON, Inc. - I am here to defend FACTS - all my information in the first post was based solely on the FACTUAL evidence already in this thread and its links, combined with my knowledge of  the complex tangle of laws strangling Native American Indians. All comments were mine and not representing  Her Native Roots, Talon or AmyLee - again, I based it only on the information on this thread and at the provided links. Any rational person could repeat the same cyber-trail.

FACT: Educated Indian still doubts that TALON et al have an attorney - even though a poster said if anyone doubted that - just CALL HIM! (the attorney).
Wouldn't someone interested in FACTS pick up the phone or get on Skype from his Fulbright outpost in micronesia, and make the call? Why all this peripheral espionage - FACTS are often the simplest things to obtain! I find it baffling , and highly suspicious, that a historian would spend so much time chasing shadows when hard cold facts are a phonecall away.


FACT: SuperDog - I had to laugh at your notion that if AmyLee simply told you her ancestry then "that fact alone would get her taken off this board." You aren't really that naive, are you? There's a witch-hunt here - and ANY FACTS that anyone has offered here have been quickly denounced. Even if she turns out to be an FBI-(Full Blooded Indian [Childish insult]) Card-wagging-documented descendent of some famous Chief - there are posters here who will call for her to be denounced as having somehow offended somebody.(Rose is ready to [Racism and race baiting] her just for having lighter skin than she does...ignoring the online photograph of AmyLee's real Mother -with obvious brown eyes, dark skin and raven black hair!)  [Childish insult]The people who want to [Vicious racism and race baiting] are just baiting anyone who might possibly know anything about her so they can have that much more to tear apart. They have IGNORED FACTS that are right in front of their very noses - example - Rose's last [Childish insult] gesture defiantly asserts, [Childish Insults, Personal Insults, Racist Insults], "I say that Hawk Hollow is a fraudulant nonprofit organization that should have its tax exempt status removed!" That's [Childish insult] . If she read the actual posted FACTS and LINKS pertaining to the nonprofits she would understand that Hawk Hollow was an ADDRESS and never even had tax exempt status! So [Childish insult]! Rose, you got your wish - Hawk Hollow does not have any tax exempt status - [Childish insult]  Should we overlook the FACT that it never did have tax-exempt status! 

I am looking forward to seeing how this all turns out. I don't have a "horse in this race" except that I continue to root for FACTS - just the FACTS, ma'am, just the FACTS. (And I am wagering that there are quite a few people in the stands rooting right along with me.)

[Al's note: We don't reward childishness in here, so your dozens of juvenile insults were removed, along with numerous racist insults. You owe this forum an apology for your behavior.]
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: educatedindian on October 26, 2008, 01:21:01 am

FACT: According to Educated Indian - he went to the time and expense of getting one of those computerized scams that gives you that system's best guess (more about that later) about a person named "Amylee Schwartz." WHAT? You can't even correctly spell the name of the imaginary person you are trying to research.

FACT: Educated Indian still doubts that TALON et al have an attorney - even though a poster said if anyone doubted that - just CALL HIM! (the attorney).
Wouldn't someone interested in FACTS pick up the phone or get on Skype from his Fulbright outpost in micronesia, and make the call? Why all this peripheral espionage - FACTS are often the simplest things to obtain! I find it baffling , and highly suspicious, that a historian would spend so much time chasing shadows when hard cold facts are a phonecall away.


FACT- You can't read. I clearly said the genealogy was done by someone else.

And I find it amusing the fraud you defend is now someone you claim does not even exist.

FACT- Actual attorneys contact the intended targets of supposed lawsuits. They have not. If someone paid him a retainer, they're not getting their money's worth.

I don't intend to spend money on every person who bluffs and claims to have a lawyer. That'd be about one wasted internat'l toll call a month. Not cheap, just to find out what has turned out to be the case every time. No lawyer, and no case to begin with, just hot air.

Speaking of hot air, you've obviously been either reading or perhaps been in touch with John Martin and David Yeagley, two white supremacists who've come after us before and who work with Nuage exploiters. You parroted their mistake about me being "in Micronesia." Thanks for showing us either the company you keep, or the kind of nonsense you believe.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Back again - FACTS ANYONE on October 26, 2008, 07:13:09 pm
[IMPORTANT NOTE:
FA is none other than John Martin AKA Tallsoldier77 and more than two dozen other sockpuppet IDs. The IP of FA matches that of others used by Martin.

Martin a violent fanatic supporter of white supremacist David Yeagley and associate of Nuage promoter John Lekay.

It seems that Mr. Martin has added Amylee to the list of Nuage frauds and imposters he defends.]


[Spam removed]

FACT: I apologize for assuming you actually ordered the geneology yourself. You did not say you had actually requested it. You DID say it had been sent to you.

[Chilidish insults]
         
It is not a racist retort. I am not racist. It is not insulting - it is factual.

FACT: I WILL apologize for anything I may have written which has caused others to be offended based on racial sensitivities, AFTER You reinstate my original membership which you terminated; and AFTER you reinstate my original text which you removed, and AFTER you take a POLL of your constituents and PUBLISH it here to see if anyone but you was even insulted. (I have my un-edited original text, if you need it.)  To apologize to the forum readers based on your curious editing of my post is absurd. Replace my words and let me either defend them or recant them.

QUESTION: I want to be clear here, when you added your editorial to my comments about respected Seneca Author, Dr. Mann, were you calling ME or Dr. Mann the "white supremacist?"  Were you accusing this distinguished researcher of writing "falsehoods" or were you merely accusing me? I want to know [Defamation].

FACT: I have no idea who John Martin and David Yeagley are - but being a FACT-Checker, you can trust that I will soon learn.  I will also learn more about Makassar, Indonesia - which I sincerely thought was in micronesia, it is after all, an island.... [Spam]

FACT: I'll be back, even if I have to re-register from another computer if I get banned again.  I am also starting a new thread in Research Needed, to continue the discussion about enrollment v non-enrolled status. Since this thread is supposedly about AmyLee and there is no actual evidence she ever claimed to be (nor denied being) enrolled - I'm taking this issue elsewhere.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Defend the Sacred on October 26, 2008, 09:01:16 pm
FACT: I WILL apologize for anything I may have written which has caused others to be offended based on racial sensitivities, AFTER You reinstate my original membership which you terminated; and AFTER you reinstate my original text which you removed, and AFTER you take a POLL of your constituents and PUBLISH it here to see if anyone but you was even insulted. (I have my un-edited original text, if you need it.)  To apologize to the forum readers based on your curious editing of my post is absurd. Replace my words and let me either defend them or recant them.

... ... ...

FACT: I'll be back, even if I have to re-register from another computer if I get banned again.  I am also starting a new thread in Research Needed, to continue the discussion about enrollment v non-enrolled status. Since this thread is supposedly about AmyLee and there is no actual evidence she ever claimed to be (nor denied being) enrolled - I'm taking this issue elsewhere.

The sense of entitlement is staggering.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Back again - FACTS ANYONE on October 27, 2008, 01:06:04 am
[IMPORTANT NOTE:
FA is none other than John Martin AKA Tallsoldier77 and more than two dozen other sockpuppet IDs. The IP of FA matches that of others used by Martin.

Martin a violent fanatic supporter of white supremacist David Yeagley and associate of Nuage promoter John Lekay.

It seems that Mr. Martin has added Amylee to the list of Nuage frauds and imposters he defends.]

[Spam]

Repeating myself, I will apologize to those readers who actually get to read my original words, and who then let me know they were offended.
[Followed by series of childish insults]

That Educated Indian has the audacity to claim that TALON , Inc is not taking the "moral high ground" when [Falsehoods], and further accuse them of "weaseling" is [Long series of childish insults, lies, and defamation]

[Al's note- All further IDs spamming will also be banned. If CHILDISHNESS AND RACISM ANYONE cannot grow up, we won't waste our time.]

Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: educatedindian on October 27, 2008, 09:16:19 am
FA's reading skills are as lousy as ever. Obviously she and her potential new friends Yeagley and Martin are the racists, not Mann.

I probably don't even have to ask this, but does anyone care to respond to Childishness Anyone's demand that we take a poll to see if her words were racist?

It pretty much defeats the purpose, but in a nutshell, she went on an extended rant comparing a NAFPS member (and NDN woman) to a monkey. This included comments comparing her skin color, etc.

I don't think we really need any more proof that FA is a hardcore racist with such words coming out of her. And it is a pretty damning indictment of Amylee's supporters.

That plus a thinly concealed vow to work with white supremacists, and the lame attempt to pretend she hasn't been relying on their defamation.  I almost thought she was Martin.

To add a final point, FA herself either plays at being Indian at times, or imagines herself to have some special insight or connection to NDNs. Her email address reads in part "mohawkcommunity".
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Superdog on October 27, 2008, 04:21:59 pm
FACT: SuperDog - I had to laugh at your notion that if AmyLee simply told you her ancestry then "that fact alone would get her taken off this board." You aren't really that naive, are you? There's a witch-hunt here - and ANY FACTS that anyone has offered here have been quickly denounced. Even if she turns out to be an FBI-(Full Blooded Indian [Childish insult]) Card-wagging-documented descendent of some famous Chief - there are posters here who will call for her to be denounced as having somehow offended somebody.(Rose is ready to [Racism and race baiting] her just for having lighter skin than she does...ignoring the online photograph of AmyLee's real Mother -with obvious brown eyes, dark skin and raven black hair!)  [Childish insult]The people who want to [Vicious racism and race baiting] are just baiting anyone who might possibly know anything about her so they can have that much more to tear apart. They have IGNORED FACTS that are right in front of their very noses - example - Rose's last [Childish insult] gesture defiantly asserts, [Childish Insults, Personal Insults, Racist Insults], "I say that Hawk Hollow is a fraudulant nonprofit organization that should have its tax exempt status removed!" That's [Childish insult] . If she read the actual posted FACTS and LINKS pertaining to the nonprofits she would understand that Hawk Hollow was an ADDRESS and never even had tax exempt status! So [Childish insult]! Rose, you got your wish - Hawk Hollow does not have any tax exempt status - [Childish insult]  Should we overlook the FACT that it never did have tax-exempt status! 

I am looking forward to seeing how this all turns out. I don't have a "horse in this race" except that I continue to root for FACTS - just the FACTS, ma'am, just the FACTS. (And I am wagering that there are quite a few people in the stands rooting right along with me.)

[Al's note: We don't reward childishness in here, so your dozens of juvenile insults were removed, along with numerous racist insults. You owe this forum an apology for your behavior.]

Ok....so what does this have to do with my question??  What tribe is she enrolled in??

To go Dr. Phil on ya....."A person with nothing to hide...hides nothing"

I'm just wondering what the big secret is. 

On a side note.  Don't take my question personal.  I've not attacked you and you won't really gain anything, by trying to start a fight with me.  I think you'll be frustrated by my cool head in that situation and you won't gain anything by it.  You seem to have taken the argument that this information would somehow hurt her, yet proof of the backing of entire community helps her case doesnt it???  Especially if you perceive a witch hunt.

The way I look at it....if I put myself in her shoes and someone questioned me similarly I'd direct them to my family, aunts, uncles, brothers, sisters, cousins, schoolmates, friends....all of which come from my community.  Pretty much if someone had a problem with me they have a problem with the whole community and conversely, if I did something that wasn't accepted by them I have to face them all.  Any witch hunt would meet a quick ending.

I don't see that at all in this case.  Looking for some kind of sliver of truth in the claims I've seen with my own eyes by Amylee (I'm talking sources that attribute themselves to just her and not a third party)....she doesn't have to be full-blood...she's got to have a community behind her.  If she doesn't have that then she really has no right to claim to represent them in any capacity in my opinion.  Without involvement in those communities she's got no basis for judging those communities (which she does of some Native communities and negatively so......not good behavior and definitely not of the healing variety)

I'm asking it over and over again.  What tribe is she enrolled in???

Superdog
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: JB Wingo on October 29, 2008, 02:09:57 am
Actually, I for one would like everyone to see the poster’s entire own words without your editing. I, myself, have already read them as they were sent to me by the writer a few minutes after each post. From all the names on the address bar, it looks like many of your other members, and some other people of interest, may have also been sent his actual original words, and then yours, including Talon’s attorney.

 

So, please – let everyone else who hasn't already read his words, read exactly what was so offensive that you had to ban him - twice.

 

Also, it is important to note right here that he never referred to Southwest Skeptic as a "monkey" nor made any racial reference to her whatsoever – he merely referred to her own internet “squirrel??? icon that she herself uses to describe herself on this thread and on her linked website. Again - there was NO racial reference.

 

Also – the address that sent me the posts was not the one you listed, it read ConscienceRazor@live.com .   If you choose not to restore the man’s actual texts perhaps others interested could email him for copies, or even email me – my address is still the same from my first post as well as being listed in the forum members directory.

 

In your New Member Intros he presents himself as humbly non-Indian, having been married to a Native woman and suggests they might have children together. I gathered that his concern for them is what led him to this forum. It’s clear from his posts and emails he doesn’t know AmyLee, he’s just an egghead stickler for facts and clarity, and I think he may be a law student, law professor, or something similar, based on the notes that accompanied the emails.  If you don’t have the original texts any longer, I am sure some of us who received them can cut and paste them all and post them in with our own comments here.

 

Looking forward to voting on the Poll – which reminds me – Everybody registered in the U.S. – Don’t forget to VOTE Tuesday!!!
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Moma_porcupine on October 29, 2008, 03:07:55 am
Geepers creepers .

I doubt anyone here is all that concerned about the character of an anonymous person who was posting under
 the condescending user name of "Facts Anyone".

This thread and the whole message board is about people using false claims of traditional knowledge to market
 products and services. 

People have repeatedly asked what tribe Amylee is enrolled in. Even the names of some people who are enrolled
in the tribe she claims descent from, who recognized what she is doing as traditional, would be something.

But instead it seems her defenders want to make this all about the character of a rude and anonymous poster, or the
personalities of the moderators of the board.

Quit trying to divert peoples attention from the real issues.   
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Superdog on October 29, 2008, 11:56:50 am
Actually, I for one would like everyone to see the poster’s entire own words without your editing. I, myself, have already read them as they were sent to me by the writer a few minutes after each post. From all the names on the address bar, it looks like many of your other members, and some other people of interest, may have also been sent his actual original words, and then yours, including Talon’s attorney.

 

So, please – let everyone else who hasn't already read his words, read exactly what was so offensive that you had to ban him - twice.

 

Also, it is important to note right here that he never referred to Southwest Skeptic as a "monkey" nor made any racial reference to her whatsoever – he merely referred to her own internet “squirrel??? icon that she herself uses to describe herself on this thread and on her linked website. Again - there was NO racial reference.

 

Also – the address that sent me the posts was not the one you listed, it read ConscienceRazor@live.com .   If you choose not to restore the man’s actual texts perhaps others interested could email him for copies, or even email me – my address is still the same from my first post as well as being listed in the forum members directory.

 

In your New Member Intros he presents himself as humbly non-Indian, having been married to a Native woman and suggests they might have children together. I gathered that his concern for them is what led him to this forum. It’s clear from his posts and emails he doesn’t know AmyLee, he’s just an egghead stickler for facts and clarity, and I think he may be a law student, law professor, or something similar, based on the notes that accompanied the emails.  If you don’t have the original texts any longer, I am sure some of us who received them can cut and paste them all and post them in with our own comments here.

 

Looking forward to voting on the Poll – which reminds me – Everybody registered in the U.S. – Don’t forget to VOTE Tuesday!!!

Hey JB. 

I'll try this again.  You've known Amylee a long time. 

What tribe is she enrolled in??? 

By omitting an answer to this question I'm just gonna let you know that in my opinion you'd officially be dodging the question and I'm gonna have to go under the assumption based on the evidence that Amylee is not enrolled in any tribe, but only has an ancestral affiliation from a set of grandparents who voluntarily left their community behind.

I hate to do it, but I'm gonna call  you out because I don't believe this information is known as it would be helpful to your assertions in this conversation..  Either you don't know the information which means you don't know Amylee on the level you claim to know her or that information doesn't exist which means Amylee is fabricating a lot of the selling points of her products and you're protecting her.

So can you answer the question??

Superdog
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: educatedindian on November 01, 2008, 01:43:13 am
It seems Wingo has given a pretty direct answer. He's fled the forum. We can take that as a No, he either does not know if she's actually NDN, or he's refusing to reveal it out of fear of the legal consequences. After all, as her agent he books appearances and promotes her and her business. He makes a profit himself from possibly legally dubious activity that has been reported to the IRS as needing investigation as fraudulent. Taking the fifth, as he's more or less doing, makes legal sense. But it doesn't help the credibility of Amylee and her inner circle that's come here and fallen flat on their faces repeatedly when they defend her or her business.

It may be possible that Wingo is just extremely naive. After all, he worked for Amylee when very few NDNs would have been naive enough to fall for her claims. So Wingo's statements about CHILDISHNESS ANYONE are just as naive. I disagree with Moma P that FA is not important.

FA's email account is mohawkcommunity@live.com. The second account is, by FA's admission, a new one. I don't know if FA consciously chose to use the second one to deceive Wingo, but Wingo could have simply checked FA's profile here. But he didn't bother, just like he never bothered to check if Amylee is actually NDN, if the website or the business is breaking any laws or not. Nor did he read the post by FA very clearly (assuming FA did not alter it). He clearly was talking about and comparing skin color and race baiting.

If he's a law student, he's probably not a very good one, though he certainly has the lack of ethics many of us associate with so many lawyers. There's quite a few deliberate lies in his posts, along with a very sloppy reading of the facts, not just once but repeatedly. And his writing style is amazingly similiar to "Ojibwelawyer" and "NDNJustice," two sockpuppet IDs used by none other than Amylee herself on the Shameons board. If FA is not Amylee, he's certainly spent quite bit of time around her and also has a pretty strong emotional investment in defending her.

But Moma P is right that FA, whether a sockpuppet of Amylee or another one of her inner circle, was intended to distract and confuse people with the real questions about Amylee's fraudulent claims. That either she or her defenders would lie to and try to confuse her own agent should be yet another big red flag for Wingo, one warning him to get out and get away from Amylee while he still can.

Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Moma_porcupine on November 01, 2008, 03:32:51 am
Al, my comment that I doubted anyone here was that concerned with FA's character was directed at Wingo quibbling over exactly
what was said, when it's obvious FA was very rude , starting with their choice of a user name while at the same time 
completely ignoring the central concerns . I do agree it's important to notice who is affiliated with who , and the tactics
people use to defend their friends. It usually says a lot about the type of people they are.

I  never read everything FA wrote before you removed it, so beyond the obvious I can't have an opinion one way or the other. Sorry
if I didn't make what I was saying clear.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: White Shield Sister on November 24, 2008, 05:45:31 am
Hi Everyone, I joined because I'm a member of the organization run by Amylee that is called the Sisters of the Shield.  I came across this forum after I had decided to learn more about Amylee.  I've read each of the posts here twice and although I don't know the answers to any of the questions I had when I started looking for info about Amylee, I can comment on some of what got said here.

Amylee has a raptor rehabilitation center on her land in Tippicanoe, Ohio.  I've seen videos of the hawks and owls and sent money for the work she does.  She's listed as a class two wild life rehabber here.   
http://dnr.state.oh.us/wildlife/Home/resources/orphans/rehabilitators/tabid/6013/Default.aspx

I got started studying with her after a woman showed me a flyer from Amylee broadcasting that she would help women learn about Animal Helpers.  The money I sent each year was between $200 and $350.  I was told this was for our group's costs and that Amylee took no money for her teaching us.  We were taught however, that we are supposed to gift her at the end of the teaching based on our ability and our gratitude.  I sometimes sent presents, I sometimes sent checks.  I always sent something because I was told it was expected by her culture.  I wasn't forced and I was happy to abide by her customs.

I never had to birth a drum.  I never had to build a shield.  I never had to leave my family or shut up if I asked the wrong question.  I was taught how to make small shields that had two sides.  These sides were representational art of how I presented myself to the outer world and how I viewed my inner self.  I've done this at other gatherings of women that had nothing to do with being Native American.  My interest in Amylee wasn't because she was Native American, but because of what she was saying.  I also created two different larger shields.  I still have the second one but I dismatled the first.  I just didn't feel I needed two of them.  The process was more important to me than the product.  Later on she taught us all something about using our shields as a divination tool.  I'm sure she used the term  the medicine wheel but I didn't pursue learning this teaching.  I did enjoy learning about herbs from her.  I found most of what she had to say interesting and I continued for almost two decades.  She's no longer "gatekeeping" for our group, and some of us are discussing what does that exactly mean?

I had no need to check up on her as I felt no pressure what so ever to be apart of the sisterhood until about a year or so ago.  Then she offered us all the chance to join in a business venture with her. Since I already had purchased "pods" (which are just wonderful) and herbs from her, I thought it might be an internet retail company, something useful like what she already had.  Instead it turned out to be a pyramid scam.  Around the same time she sent out a request for help coming up with money to buy the land around her Hawk Hollow.  When I offered to help, she asked me to join another pyramid scam, which she portrayed as a gifting club that uses the same principals of her Iroqois culture.  I was appalled.  When I tried to speak with her about by email, the conversation got so unpleasant that we haven't spoken to each other since.  That's when I went looking to see who exactly was this woman I'd been sending my money to all these years.

Its been a sad and interesting tale so far.

I have to go now.  Is a friend's birthday and I'm surprising her with a party in about 20 minutes.  I hope this conversation is not already over.  I do hope that Southwestsceptic will send us a copy of what she emailed out to the elders and what their actual replies were.  How you ask the question is certainly an important part of the answer you get.

I'd very much like to know which, if any clan, claims her.  She told us about getting permission from the Grandmothers to teach us, and about reporting to the elders and getting their approval for what she's done with us.  Who exactly was she talking about?

I'm not very versed in NDN affairs and I hope not to cause any offense.  NDN affairs isn't really my issue, I just sort of stumbled on the conversation here and certainly learned a lot I didn't know about the problems of cultural appropriation.

As for Amoja Three Rivers, did she really disclaim Amylee?  I bought her book once "Cultural Ettiquette" and didn't she list Amylee in her list of people that had helped her prepare the book?

PS, I'm not Amylee.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Superdog on November 24, 2008, 02:57:03 pm
Hello WSS.

What you've described is what we and others have been saying all along.  She duped you with stories of "elders" and "medicine" all with the idea of gettin' your money so she can have a life without actually having to work for it.  She'd rather sell things that don't belong to her.  It's history repeating itself.  When white settlers wanted to take over land they'd go to an Indian family that lived there and asked them to sell.  They'd respond that they can't sell land, it doesn't belong to them.  So the settlers would go to the nearest non-Indian living close by and ask to buy the land his neighbors live on and he would sell it.  Then the settlers would go back to the Indian family and say "I just bought this land, it's mine and you can't live here anymore...."

What Amylee is selling to you doesn't belong to her and can't be sold anyway, yet she creates the fantasy that your happiness will come from her and your degree of happiness depends on how much you give her.  Take that back for yourself, you create your own destiny.   She can't name an elder that backs her up because there aren't any.  Her lies are so deep it's almost beyond belief.  The sockpuppeting that she does (creating anonymous accounts and pretending to be someone else) is clear.  She's pretended to be a talent agent, random individuals such as yourself, and even tried to impersonate Steve McFadden, the author of one of the books she appears in.  Amoja Three Rivers has denounced Amylee that's easy to check on as well.

You are dealing with someone who commits fraud at all levels....even in passing conversation and she takes great pains in scouring the internet and trying to remove all the fraudulent references made by herself and by others who are part of her group.  Basically as soon as something questionable shows up (such as the Iroquois Bird Flu remedy) and she gets caught and questioned on it.....it's abruptly removed.....usually the same day.  You can look around.  There are other references where she tries to claim to be a medicine woman.....there's a post on the Oprah Winfrey website where she states that and then goes back after he named appeared here again and tries to appear to be someone else using the same handle and claim she didn't mean Amylee was a medicine woman. 

In the 80's we used to have a common term for someone who behaved this way...."Mental"

Giving money to her is like giving an alcoholic 180 proof vodka.  Your post here is greatly appreciated.  What you say matches what's been said by so many others who've crossed her path, been fooled and then discovered the truth.  Hopefully others that come across her will find your words and save themselves their savings and lead them on a good path in life.  Doesn't take any money or gifts to find happiness.  Her biggest scam is that she promises the world and then if you find any happiness, you end up feeling guilty for it and pay HER to get rid of the guilt.  You don't owe her anything.  You were a strong intelligent person before you met her...you just got distracted.

Superdog
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: White Shield Sister on November 24, 2008, 08:18:05 pm
Hello Superdog.  Thank you for the response.  I thought perhaps this forum had shut down already.  I respect your opinion, which I'm sure is based on your experience, but no, I don't agree with you.  I am not anything like you've described.  For instance, my happiness is not contingent of spending money anywhere, including supporting the efforts of people working in the fields that are of interest to me.  I don't think what I've said matches exactly some of the vile statements about Amylee that I've read here.  I understand that people are upset and saying things in a strong way, and I can hear folks being angry.  But some of what is being said doesn't match with my direct experience so I have to disagree.  She never even mentioned the wolf clan to me, she's never forced me to do anything, she didn't even ask me to birth a shield every month, I wasn't trying to become an NDN and I wasn't ever offered the chance to become an NDN and except for our recent negative exchange about what is a pyramid scam and why people shouldn't engage in them, which I view as a lapse in judgement due to financial pressures,  she's always been kind, generous, thoughtful, and impecable in her dealings with me.  I do realize now that I am ignorant of exactly who owns what I've been taught and who has authorized it.  As an outsider I had/have no way to ask and simply took her word for it.   I'm looking forward to having that resolved.

She called me this morning in an effort to talk directly with me.  I got upset over something she said and the conversation didn't go well.  I've asked her to communicate in writing in the future.  There is a time difference between our countries (I'm in Guam) and my husband is ill and sleeps at odd times so its not ok for her to call me at 5:30 in the morning.  In addition, I'd rather have a record of what gets said instead of relying on the he said she said thing.

I contacted TALON directly (by email) because there is a disclaimer on the HNR web page now distancing the company from Amylee.  I asked who exactly is on the board and got an email signed "Talon" that probably set me up to be upset when Amylee called at 5:30 in the morning.  I think the part of the email that upset me was that my question was not answered - Not only was I not told who is on the board, but instead I was taken to task for posting to this forum and then asked if there was something I didn't want to say to Amylee.  My reply was something along the lines of does Amylee have something to say to me?  Who ever wrote to me didn't even sign the email.  They did mention that 1) Amylee's Cheif has come forward (who is that?) and will protect her (my paraphrasing, not her words) and that Amylee's lawyer is going to shut this forum down.

Writing about it makes me realize that I am upset and when I'm upset I'm not at my best.

How much more upset Amylee must be having to listen to folks talk about her this way.  I think she should sue the people who spread lies about her.

On the other hand, if what people are saying about her is true, then sueing them doesn't do a bit of good does it?  You haven't got a leg to stand on.

Sueing people is expensive and time consuming.  Just because she hasn't sued anyone yet doesn't mean that she's a liar, a theif, or any of the other things that get said around here.

And round and round it goes.  All of us at one time or another are subjected to various degrees of misunderstanding, negativity and disruption.  If we can be kind to each other, even when we disagree, the chances that feelings will be more manageable and that forward progress can be made in understanding both (or all) camps is better.

Hard to do, of course, once folks start getting polarized.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: White Shield Sister on November 25, 2008, 06:08:40 am
Hi again folks.  I thought I'd keep you up to date on my inquiry into the shield sisters.  You all know, of course that this site is being watched by someone in the group.  There is speculation among you about the identity of various people who post and if they are sincere or just sock puppets, if they are who they say they are or if they are being devious and underhanded.  Speculation is very useful, but its not the same thing as knowing. 

In my case I've been immediatly chastised by someone at TALON, who I don't know, for speaking to you all.  I haven't hidden who I am from the sisters or from Amylee, but, no offense folks, I don't know any of you and I don't really want to give out my name and address here.  I hope you understand.

Someone has already copied all my posts to this site and distributed it to I don't know how many people, perhaps with the intent of exposing me for something.  Apparently there was a letter sent to everyone in the group telling all of us not to speak in on line forums that I've missed or not fully understood.  I have never given up my right to a free and responsible search for truth and meaning which is what I vew I am doing here.  On the other hand, if Amylee's safety is really an issue in whether anyone in the shield sisters talks to on line forums, what does that say about my willingness to tell the truth as I know it in this public place? I guess I just don't believe any of you are going to attack her physically if you find where she is.  If I'm wrong, God help us all.

I imagine that I'm about to go through a bumpy ride with folks being outraged at my having broken the silence that may have been attempted to be imposed on us. I say may, because I don't recall ever being told not to talk to on line forums.  I think this because speaking up about my concerns in the past has elicited some really emotional negative responses from some of the sisters I've spoken with.

Except for the issue of clan enrollment and the right to teach, (which I can't comment on as I am unfortunately ignorant), and her bad judgement concerning pyramid scams, Amylee has always treated me in well.  We've done business together for years and I have no complaints about her business ethics or her products (pods and herbs).  I depend on her herb product line and would be sad if she went out of business.

Of course to Native Americans the issue of what her clan affiliation is and what permission she has is important.  It is less so to me, except in the same way i wouldn't want to buy goods that had been made with slave labor, or eat foods that had been grown in ways that harm the earth or migrant workers.  So I its important for me to find out.  Its been hard to do so.  I know you know what I'm talking about.  You've asked the question several times and never gotten an answer.  The question has been put to me why I haven't asked Amylee directly.  The answer is that I'm not trying to find out what Amylee thinks or says about herself.  I have already been told that.  I am trying to verify her claims.  Its been downright hard!

I've never believed any of the attacks on Amylee.  I don't believe that women were hounded or pressured or forced in anyway to do anything by Amylee.  I'm wondering why these things get said.  Is it just a witch hunt?  Thinking back on the posts I've read though, I wonder if it had more to do with the women who feel they need to somehow protect or defend Amylee?  If so, is that Amylee's fault?  What responsiblity does she have in directing other people's behavior?  If I knew a friend was doing something hurtful in my name, I'd speak to them about it.  Does Amylee hold a leadership role and if so, is she ultimately responsible for the tone and actions of those she leads?  How much responsibility?

Looking forward to hearing from Amylee's lawyer and her Chief since these are the people who are supposed to answer the questions oft repeated here. 

If anyone learns what her clan affiliation is and what permission she's received to teach please let us know.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: earthw7 on November 25, 2008, 04:49:42 pm
Well, i am not a moderator here just a poster from the rez.
Who is concerned with these people who make claims that are
true.
We have been attacked and their have been made claims by many to sue us as a board. I have never seen anyone do it yet.

I have to explain one thing I have never heard of native people sueing people so I think and i could be mistaken that it is a white thing.

As a Native person who is enrolled and living on the reservation i can only speak for myself.

It is the way native people talk to each other, and it goes like this....

Hi,
What nation you from?
What family you from?
Which reservation/Indian lands/or urban area you live?

it is how we established who is who and if people get offended when asked we get a little worried because they are not proud of who they are or they don't know who they are.

To me it is simple question who are?
Who gave you your name?
Which nation you enrolled in?
What is your family?
Does the nation recogize you?

All simple questions instead getting answers that are very simple the native people are attacked.
That makes me ask Why???
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: TrishaRoseJacobs on November 25, 2008, 05:08:02 pm
Regarding the sock puppets etc. in many cases we aren't speculating and we do know who these people are via IP addy's etc.

We don't force people to give out their name and address here, those who wish to may give out their name but it is never advised to post your address on-line. Only people who come here to stir trouble and post spam as sock puppets have their names posted when they become known.

Amylee's physical safety is not at stake. No one listed on this site has ever been physically abused in any way, shape or form by the people protesting them. Although claims that physical threats have been made against them are fairly common from those discussed here, they seem universally unable to back this up with any kind of evidence. That is in contrast to the threats made against members here, who have gotten "cursed," stalked, and death threats in some cases. Many frauds and their followers monitor this site, and several have threatened to shut us down via their lawyers, or sue anyone and everyone - none have been successful in actuality.

Just going to point something out to you: everyone is "treated well" (to a certain extent at least) by frauds. That's how they get their money. It is much much easier to get money (or sex in some cases) from people by being nice to them than by treating them like rubbish. All I'm saying is that "but they're so nice" is not necessarily proof of honesty. That you have had difficulties in trying to get answers to your questions, and that it seems you're not even supposed to ask questions, at least not on here, speaks against honesty. You don't want to take our word over that of someone you know and respect - fair enough, but I hope you don't let your friendship override your rationality when it comes to weighing up the evidence - not all of which is speculation.

That this is a "witch hunt" is something we hear often here, but frankly - (imo) these frauds are really a fringe issue. Yes, its serious but there are more important things going on and the "witch hunt" complaint comes from people with a very puffed up sense of self importance.  As to Amylee's culpability, unless she is feeble or somehow incapable of making her own decisions - then she is responsible for the things she says - and if her followers are behaving contrary to her message, it is her responsibility to correct them. If she claims to be a Native healer, then she should know that and accept it.

In any case I hope her "Chief" or her lawyer do get back to you.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: Cetan on November 26, 2008, 03:21:11 pm
Earth7 has summed it all up, as usual she put it clear and straight to the point. Since Amylee wont answer these basic questions that says it all.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: 180IQ on February 05, 2009, 03:58:49 pm
I have locked this thread from further posts and had to edit out some references to a certain "item" due to a claim of "copyright infringement" (which did not really exist but nevertheless got us in trouble with our parent hosting company).
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: educatedindian on December 11, 2011, 03:37:17 pm
I received an account from Ms. Swarz's cousin describing their family's history.

----------
I am a first cousin of this person.  She was born in January, 1952 and I was born in February, 1952 so we are very close in age.  Our Grandmother, Bertha Johnson was married to Charles Elmo Johnson and lived some of their lives in Kent, Ohio.  Charles Elmo Johnson died in 1958.  They had 1 daughter (Amy's mother) Evelyn who died in 1999 (I believe) and 1 son (my father) Homer Elliot who died August 6, 1985.  There was 1 other child who I believe died during child birth (year unknown).  I am not claiming to be a Native American nor do I believe my father or grandparents were Native American.  As far as I know, our family was Scottish-Irish ancestry.   I have not spoken to Amy since 1970, however she did send an electronic message (not to me but as as a memorial in the newspaper) to my Mother when she died in 2007.  I have been told other information about Amy, however I do not have any way to substantiate that information so I will not repeat it.  I simply want to make it clear concerning the lineage of my Father and Grandparents.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: SouthwestSkeptic on December 15, 2011, 11:41:26 pm
This info is totally consistent with all the genealogical info that's freely available on the internet and matches the obituary that Amylee had removed from the internet. It's a lot easier to trace a person's family line now that more 1930 census data is now available. This just confirms what I already suspected, Amylee Swartz is a huge fraud.

The impact of her deception has been multiplying for years. I still meet women in Tucson from time to time who paid large sums of money for the dubious privilege of building a shield and sincerely believe that they are now entitled to conduct ceremonies based on their workshops with this woman. Most of them honestly believe that the more shields they build, the more spiritual become.

I the heap big medicine womon goes bankrupt hiring lawyers to file SLAPP suits against her critics.
Title: Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
Post by: educatedindian on September 27, 2020, 01:20:24 am
This has been a long time since we posted on this fraud. But there's a request for any further information we can find.

SouthwestSkeptic/Rose Garcia has done the most investigating, but has not been active almost as long. Can anyone find her?