Author Topic: non goverment mixed blood indians  (Read 7599 times)

Offline dabosijigwokush

  • Posts: 265
non goverment mixed blood indians
« on: March 04, 2010, 12:06:37 am »
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/Non-Government-Mixed-Blood-Indians/351466681973?ref=mf
now some one has posted white ego woman there as well
is she going to show up i think im going to be sick

Re: non goverment mixed blood indians
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2010, 12:45:26 am »
From what I understand from having been on this forum and reading/learning.. is that it's not up to the US Gov .. I mean, they act like protesting to the US Gov is going to somehow change the Tribes law. The USGov can't make them members of the Tribe, if they simply do not meet the Tribe's requirement.  Right? I think they don't realize the Tribe's are their own gov.  They can't think that they can somehow prove they are legit tribes to gain fed recognition.. from what I've understood, they are trying to force the Cherokee to accept them as members.  And that has nothing to do with US Gov so marching around with signs and such really is useless time spent.  Or am I wrong on this?  And the US Gov can force the Cherokee or any other nation to change their laws?
press the little black on silver arrow Music, 1) Bob Pietkivitch Buddha Feet http://www.4shared.com/file/114179563/3697e436/BuddhaFeet.html

Offline Superdog

  • Posts: 440
Re: non goverment mixed blood indians
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2010, 02:25:10 pm »
From what I understand from having been on this forum and reading/learning.. is that it's not up to the US Gov .. I mean, they act like protesting to the US Gov is going to somehow change the Tribes law. The USGov can't make them members of the Tribe, if they simply do not meet the Tribe's requirement.  Right? I think they don't realize the Tribe's are their own gov.  They can't think that they can somehow prove they are legit tribes to gain fed recognition.. from what I've understood, they are trying to force the Cherokee to accept them as members.  And that has nothing to do with US Gov so marching around with signs and such really is useless time spent.  Or am I wrong on this?  And the US Gov can force the Cherokee or any other nation to change their laws?

No you're right....tribes have the right to self-determination.  What you got here is a smokescreen for what they're really after.  $$$$...

It all breaks down to that.  They figure that if the the federal government can somehow recognize them (though none of them can fit the criteria for being an autonomous indigenous people) they can sell their "crafts" as "Native American Made" and drive the price up.  There are some also seeking federal funding (free houses, education, etc), but mostly it's individuals trying up find a shortcut to up their status using techniques honed in religious cults, but adapted for politics.  Most of this is the reaction to the active opposition being put forth by the real Cherokee tribes labelling them as frauds.....they're best defense is to somehow create a narrative that recognized Cherokees are the frauds or that they are "Around the Fort Indians" who've been sucking their livelihood from government handouts. 

All false arguments and reminiscent of Rovian politics...i.e. Win at all costs.

I'd like to get their leaders in front of their own followers and engage in a real discussion about it, but that forum is not something they would be up for as it would expose them.  That's why I'm glad they're attempting this ruse with the "Native Blood Drive" or whatever they're calling it.  The more people involved exposes them more and more for the frauds they are and in reality they're shooting themselves in the foot. 

Superdog

Offline Superdog

  • Posts: 440
Re: non goverment mixed blood indians
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2010, 03:09:53 pm »
Here's some examples of the misinformation the members on this forum are spreading.  I'm omitting the names here just because I don't want this to come off as personal attacks against individuals...only the severe misinformation.  Asterisks mark my own comments.

"I am Metis.My mother was the last generation who could have a tribal card as Penobscot.  Metis means mixed blood."

*A completely untrue statement.  The Penobscots are a federally recognized tribe in Maine, I'm sure the enrolled Penobscots would be pretty angry at this statement.  And as our Ric would be quick to point out, there is a general translation of the word "metis" as "mixed blood", but in the realm of indigenous peoples, Metis people are a people of their own and have a rich history and self-governance.  They are also not Penobscot mixed bloods.


"If you don't look Indian but walk and talk like one you are called a Wanna-be."

*There's much more to it than that...however I do realize that perception is reality to people, so I do accept that many of these individuals believe they are walking and talking like they're Indian, when in reality, they're not even close...it's only what they perceive Indians act like, but since they lack the real life experience of living in Native communities or growing up in one, there's really nothing they can judge themselves by.  Declaring everything you do as "Indian" doesn't make you Indian....in fact...there are no Indians since the reality is we self-determine by where we grew up and what people we were raised with.

"I am 7/8 Choctaw. I have never been treated as if though I was any different by the fullbloods. I do look like an indian, with bright blue eyes."

*Not a very misleading statement except for the bright blue eyes.  Blue eyes are the result of recessive genes.  You can only have them if both parents carry the recessive gene for blue and you got both of them.  Native Americans don't carry this recessive gene which results in any full blooded Native to have brown eyes and all their children to have brown eyes regardless of who the other parent is, making it impossible for this person to be 7/8 Choctaw genetically (maybe politically, I'm not sure when Choctaw geneological records go back to, so it's entirely possible this individual could be listed as 7/8 Choctaw on their roles, but the reality is there is non-Native blood on both sides of the parents.)

"A simple answer to your question is, we seek the same right to self-determination that all other Americans and humans are given by the Creator, and is all that we ask for from others. If they choose to say that we are not Tsalagi because we are not a part of a Federal Tribe, it is up to us to challenge them as "self-professed Cherokee Experts" and to point out that the words they are using are contrary to our old ways and teachings, and are those of the same government that tried to genocide all Native Americans some 180 years ago. In other words, they have been raised with false words for 3 generations, they are brainwashed, we need to teach them to think for themselves and not parrot the government line. In our country we register horses, cats, dogs and Indians. We do not register Blacks, Asians, Hispanics or Whites. Even our current mixed blood President self-identifies as African American, even though his other half is, English 1/4, Irish 1/8 and Cherokee 1/8. Just something for you to think about."

*This statement is obvious political grandstanding with no real substance.  Hard to see who he's putting the blame on here.  He says "they" and then says it's up to them to challenge them as "self-professed Cherokee Experts."  The reality is the "they" is the 3 Cherokee tribes....who would of course be self-professed Cherokee experts....they're Cherokees, but it seems the writer here is equating the real Cherokee tribes to the Federal goverment, which is a false argument.  Cherokees determine who Cherokees are...not the federal government.

"It must have been Harder to grow up in the Tribe, in some respects, than outside the Tribe....For the Shame that was Laid on the People, even by History, was Complete....Not that ok's action that Belittles other's But the Be'Littler Waschchu Was One Mean Dude, that would Kill.....And he was Backed by the Churches and government....So I can ... See Moreunderstand the Abuse went on....The Abused often becomes the Abuser Down what He Percieves as the pecking order...But the "Good Red Road" has a way of Nutering those in oppisition, just by the Next Right Action...So I will Stay My Path, And Find less Criticism to use...For my Path Take all my Action....."

*This writer also expresses in an earlier post about how his son makes up vicious lies about him....not the best home life I'm assuming.  The references to "waschchu" (Lakota word "wasichu") by someone claiming to be Cherokee is another obvious misappropriation of someone elses culture to fill in the gaps for what they don't know.  The "Good Red Road" reference is another one.

"I am greyhawk and I belong to the 2 legged tribe, i am born on turtle island so that make me native. I was an indian till the nientess now I'm N.A. Wabanaki is my heritage with a splash of Irish. I honor the creator and walk with respect, I don't really care how "pure " your blood is. At this point in time nobodys that pure. It's what's in your heart and how you walk that counts."

*Indian till the nineties???  and N.A. Wabanaki???  This individual is sadly really lost.  Not sure what the N.A. refers to, but Wabanaki refers to a confederacy of tribes who were tied culturally, but also very different.  This "heritage" he describes covers several tribes with different languages and customs, but I think he severely doesn't understand it.  Wabanaki and Abenaki are very similar in meaning, but NOT the same thing, but its something that gets confused outside of those communities and I think that's the case here.  

"When at events I am asked if I am Native American. I always hesitate. I usually say not by birth but I am by choice. It almost brings a tear to my eye because I am more Native American than most that live here all their lives. I am part Hawaiian. Last I checked and counted the states backwards Hawaii was still part of the the States. However when ... See Morepeople find that out, they are shocked that I'm here in America. I have had people welcome me to their country. As far as being American Indian, I am red at heart. I show respect for the people I try to represent in all that I do. I have studied the people and do the best I can to represent their culture with honor and respect. Many of my Indian friends have told me that I am more red then most of the People the know. I have been told that as long as I do what I do with honor as I have I will always be welcome with them.
Hiye pila maya "

*Someone with Native Hawaiian ancestry trying to equate it to cultures here in the continental US.  Apparently picking and choosing what sounds the most Native to him.  The Lakota words by someone claiming to be Hawaiian are probably the biggest red flag to most.  Hawaiians have a very rich culture and language and every Native Hawaiian I've ever met can relate to the sociological aspects of being a brown minority in America, but they are quick to point out that they are pacific islanders and embrace that part of themselves the most.  This writer should really explore that more.


There's much more and the fact that the page owners don't do a thing to correct the obvious misinformation that some post while at the same time praising anything they say that might forward their political stance is sad indeed.  But as I've said they've left it out in the open for all to read and more exposure they give themselves the more exposed their misinformation becomes as well.

Superdog
« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 03:16:39 pm by Superdog »

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: non goverment mixed blood indians
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2010, 08:09:23 pm »
Thanks for that detailed critique, Superdog. I read those posts and I can't believe there are still people out there who believe that stuff. But they're all coming out of the woodwork.

Though I assume some who know better have joined the fraudulent groups (and their multiple front groups, all run by the same person or small group of people) to see what bulletins they send out, it seems in other cases people accept "friend" and "join group" requests without ever looking at the pages of the people friending them. I know people who do this... But then the frauds (or the confused wannabes who follow them) use the "presence" of well known people to try to appear legitimate.

It appears that we've seen a couple instances now where the people behind this march have taken a mere facebook friend acceptance and blown it into a commitment to speak at their event.

It's going to backfire on them in a big way.

Offline bls926

  • Posts: 655
Re: non goverment mixed blood indians
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2010, 06:51:03 pm »
Excellent analysis, Superdog. Thank you.

As for what Kathryn said about it backfiring on them in a big way . . . It already has. They really shouldn't have used names they had no right to.

Re: non goverment mixed blood indians
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2010, 07:02:02 pm »
Good post Superdog.. it would be great if you could actually post that to the forum(s) .. perhaps some would learn something.. never know, I'm forever an optimist that some people will learn if given the right information..



Here's some examples of the misinformation the members on this forum are spreading.  I'm omitting the names here just because I don't want this to come off as personal attacks against individuals...only the severe misinformation.  Asterisks mark my own comments.

"I am Metis.My mother was the last generation who could have a tribal card as Penobscot.  Metis means mixed blood."

*A completely untrue statement.  The Penobscots are a federally recognized tribe in Maine, I'm sure the enrolled Penobscots would be pretty angry at this statement.  And as our Ric would be quick to point out, there is a general translation of the word "metis" as "mixed blood", but in the realm of indigenous peoples, Metis people are a people of their own and have a rich history and self-governance.  They are also not Penobscot mixed bloods.


"If you don't look Indian but walk and talk like one you are called a Wanna-be."

*There's much more to it than that...however I do realize that perception is reality to people, so I do accept that many of these individuals believe they are walking and talking like they're Indian, when in reality, they're not even close...it's only what they perceive Indians act like, but since they lack the real life experience of living in Native communities or growing up in one, there's really nothing they can judge themselves by.  Declaring everything you do as "Indian" doesn't make you Indian....in fact...there are no Indians since the reality is we self-determine by where we grew up and what people we were raised with.

"I am 7/8 Choctaw. I have never been treated as if though I was any different by the fullbloods. I do look like an indian, with bright blue eyes."

*Not a very misleading statement except for the bright blue eyes.  Blue eyes are the result of recessive genes.  You can only have them if both parents carry the recessive gene for blue and you got both of them.  Native Americans don't carry this recessive gene which results in any full blooded Native to have brown eyes and all their children to have brown eyes regardless of who the other parent is, making it impossible for this person to be 7/8 Choctaw genetically (maybe politically, I'm not sure when Choctaw geneological records go back to, so it's entirely possible this individual could be listed as 7/8 Choctaw on their roles, but the reality is there is non-Native blood on both sides of the parents.)

"A simple answer to your question is, we seek the same right to self-determination that all other Americans and humans are given by the Creator, and is all that we ask for from others. If they choose to say that we are not Tsalagi because we are not a part of a Federal Tribe, it is up to us to challenge them as "self-professed Cherokee Experts" and to point out that the words they are using are contrary to our old ways and teachings, and are those of the same government that tried to genocide all Native Americans some 180 years ago. In other words, they have been raised with false words for 3 generations, they are brainwashed, we need to teach them to think for themselves and not parrot the government line. In our country we register horses, cats, dogs and Indians. We do not register Blacks, Asians, Hispanics or Whites. Even our current mixed blood President self-identifies as African American, even though his other half is, English 1/4, Irish 1/8 and Cherokee 1/8. Just something for you to think about."

*This statement is obvious political grandstanding with no real substance.  Hard to see who he's putting the blame on here.  He says "they" and then says it's up to them to challenge them as "self-professed Cherokee Experts."  The reality is the "they" is the 3 Cherokee tribes....who would of course be self-professed Cherokee experts....they're Cherokees, but it seems the writer here is equating the real Cherokee tribes to the Federal goverment, which is a false argument.  Cherokees determine who Cherokees are...not the federal government.

"It must have been Harder to grow up in the Tribe, in some respects, than outside the Tribe....For the Shame that was Laid on the People, even by History, was Complete....Not that ok's action that Belittles other's But the Be'Littler Waschchu Was One Mean Dude, that would Kill.....And he was Backed by the Churches and government....So I can ... See Moreunderstand the Abuse went on....The Abused often becomes the Abuser Down what He Percieves as the pecking order...But the "Good Red Road" has a way of Nutering those in oppisition, just by the Next Right Action...So I will Stay My Path, And Find less Criticism to use...For my Path Take all my Action....."

*This writer also expresses in an earlier post about how his son makes up vicious lies about him....not the best home life I'm assuming.  The references to "waschchu" (Lakota word "wasichu") by someone claiming to be Cherokee is another obvious misappropriation of someone elses culture to fill in the gaps for what they don't know.  The "Good Red Road" reference is another one.

"I am greyhawk and I belong to the 2 legged tribe, i am born on turtle island so that make me native. I was an indian till the nientess now I'm N.A. Wabanaki is my heritage with a splash of Irish. I honor the creator and walk with respect, I don't really care how "pure " your blood is. At this point in time nobodys that pure. It's what's in your heart and how you walk that counts."

*Indian till the nineties???  and N.A. Wabanaki???  This individual is sadly really lost.  Not sure what the N.A. refers to, but Wabanaki refers to a confederacy of tribes who were tied culturally, but also very different.  This "heritage" he describes covers several tribes with different languages and customs, but I think he severely doesn't understand it.  Wabanaki and Abenaki are very similar in meaning, but NOT the same thing, but its something that gets confused outside of those communities and I think that's the case here. 

"When at events I am asked if I am Native American. I always hesitate. I usually say not by birth but I am by choice. It almost brings a tear to my eye because I am more Native American than most that live here all their lives. I am part Hawaiian. Last I checked and counted the states backwards Hawaii was still part of the the States. However when ... See Morepeople find that out, they are shocked that I'm here in America. I have had people welcome me to their country. As far as being American Indian, I am red at heart. I show respect for the people I try to represent in all that I do. I have studied the people and do the best I can to represent their culture with honor and respect. Many of my Indian friends have told me that I am more red then most of the People the know. I have been told that as long as I do what I do with honor as I have I will always be welcome with them.
Hiye pila maya "

*Someone with Native Hawaiian ancestry trying to equate it to cultures here in the continental US.  Apparently picking and choosing what sounds the most Native to him.  The Lakota words by someone claiming to be Hawaiian are probably the biggest red flag to most.  Hawaiians have a very rich culture and language and every Native Hawaiian I've ever met can relate to the sociological aspects of being a brown minority in America, but they are quick to point out that they are pacific islanders and embrace that part of themselves the most.  This writer should really explore that more.


There's much more and the fact that the page owners don't do a thing to correct the obvious misinformation that some post while at the same time praising anything they say that might forward their political stance is sad indeed.  But as I've said they've left it out in the open for all to read and more exposure they give themselves the more exposed their misinformation becomes as well.

Superdog
press the little black on silver arrow Music, 1) Bob Pietkivitch Buddha Feet http://www.4shared.com/file/114179563/3697e436/BuddhaFeet.html