Author Topic: Scarlet Kinney & The Standing Bear Center For Shamanic Studies  (Read 61695 times)

Offline Mo

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Re: The Standing Bear: Center For Shamanic Studies
« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2006, 12:02:45 pm »
i was thinking it was the one by the O Jays, i guess both fit!

Money money money money, money (x6)
Some people got to have it
Some people really need it
Listen to me y'all, do things, do things, do bad things with it
You wanna do things, do things, do things, good things with it
Talk about cash money, money
Talk about cash money- dollar bills, yall

For the love of money
People will steal from their mother
For the love of money
People will rob their own brother
For the love of money
People can't even walk the street
Because they never know who in the world they're gonna beat
For that lean, mean, mean green
Almighty dollar, money

For the love of money
People will lie, Lord, they will cheat
For the love of money
People don't care who they hurt or beat
For the love of money
A woman will sell her precious body
For a small piece of paper it carries a lot of weight
Call it lean, mean, mean green

Almighty dollar

I know money is the root of all evil
Do funny things to some people
Give me a nickel, brother can you spare a dime
Money can drive some people out of their minds

Got to have it, I really need it
How many things have I heard you say
Some people really need it
How many things have I heard you say
Got to have it, I really need it
How many things have I heard you say
Lay down, lay down, a woman will lay down
For the love of money
All for the love of money
Don't let, don't let, don't let money rule you
For the love of money
Money can change people sometimes
Don't let, don't let, don't let money fool you
Money can fool people sometimes
People! Don't let money, dont let money change you,
it will keep on changing, changing up your mind.

Offline fraudchaser

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Re: The Standing Bear: Center For Shamanic Studies
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2006, 02:30:57 pm »
Can some one educate me on "shaman" that is a term I am not familiar with?
I come from a world that has medicine people.
Did I do a Rip Van Winkle and sleep through a change in our beliefs?
What the heck is genetic memory? Cause I wouldn't want memories of any of my ancestors, they had it bad.
Nothing on the subject comes close to what I have been taught, not even in the same ballpark.
I believe in bear medicine but here in my neck of the woods there are no bear medicine people walking this earth.
I can tell you if I was going through something physically traumatic or not and I saw a bear standing over me, I'll be honest I would sh***t my pants.

Offline educatedindian

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Re: The Standing Bear: Center For Shamanic Studies
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2006, 04:56:30 pm »
It seems that Scarlet Kinney is getting pretty desperate. She can see her meal ticket slipping away and wants to protect that. For someone who claims to be super-spirchul and to be too busy with very ill family members she sure is spending a lot of time on this. A bunch of posts, writing to at least three members here, and spending a lot of time on her own site rallying the cult members...um, make that followers.

For awhile we weren't sure if she or someone working on her behalf had hacked the site. I was locked out of the site for half a day, but for now it seems to be OK.  

If it is her doing the hacking, then her followers/cult members need to ask if this is someone they can trust. And if it's one of her followers, she needs to ask about just what it is she is teaching them. As fraudchaser pointed out, she's teaching them how to manipulate and control. I don't know of any tribal belief that would say that's OK. Most would condemn what she's doing as simply wrong.

And in her own posts here she brags about getting people angry and getting them to argue and pick fights with each other as a way to "learn". Anyone whose studied about cults knows that's classic cult manipulation techniques, practiced by cults like Synanon, the Moonies, etc. The Deer Tribe even has a version of it, getting people to fight each other stripped naked "no holds barred".

frederica

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Re: The Standing Bear: Center For Shamanic Studies
« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2006, 07:33:39 pm »
I read her comments on her site about NAFPS. She sure is defensive. Does make it seem more commerical than "spiritual". ( and I use that term loosely). Lots ot twisting and manuplating. frederica

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: The Standing Bear: Center For Shamanic Studies
« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2006, 01:59:28 am »
I do not know the woman or business that began this topic , and I am not going to comment on her business specificly ,  but , as I know a number
of people who have been harmed by false spiritual guidence , I am wanting to share some thoughts on shamanic businesses in general .

So often ,these people who start up a business selling themselves as shamanic practioners use that they have the support and teaching of a person who is claimed to be Native ,as part of
their public advertisements . Often , this Native person is used as a prop , to validate a story
or experience that most people would immediately dismiss and avoid as delusional , without this
validation . Often , if people had any real knowledge of Native culture , they would know
this validation was just as unlikely , as the unlikely story it is supposed to support .

I also notice these Shamanic businesses often decline to say who it is, that they are using as a Native prop , making it impossible for people to realisticly evaluate the credibility of this supposed validation .

In my opinion , people have a right to know the truth about a teacher or healer or groups
real qualifications ( or lack of them ) If the Native person used as a prop cannot be named
for some reason , then they should not be used as a part of the advertisement .

Using Native people , and non native peoples ignorance of real Native traditions , to create an undeserved credibility for imaginary shamanic business products , is one of the things that often comes up in this forum , and it is this deception which many people find offensive, dishonest and exploitive. (amoungst other things ) If people want to sell a spiritual product , they should do so on their own merits , not by making it look like they
have Native teachings or authorization that are not there .

In many cases what is going on is deceptive advertising , pure and simple . Telling the truth about this , is in no way an attack motivated by misdirected anger . It is a public service .

Offering spiritual guidence to people that is imaginary can be very damaging , esp. if people make major life decisions based on this . I personally know a couple people who have been seriously harmed by making life decisions based on delusional spiritual guidence and teachings . We all make mistakes and learn from them , but , it is our own mistakes we learn from best , not somone elses .

Using the support given by real Native Elders or a claiming Native heritage , to validate a exploitive business product, also harms the next people , who might need help from these same Elders , or traditions , as these next people seeking help will have to deal with , not only their own problems but the mistrust and anger created by people who misused previous help and turned it into a phoney validation for a imaginary and culturally disrespectful business product .

Many of these business people could correct at least some of the wrong doing  , just by not
claiming to have Native teachings or validation , if they really do not . Seems like that is almost always how people end up being posted in this forum as being a fraud . I do not see anyone
posted here, who is making money channeling something from Alpha centari , Lemuria , or Atlantis
unless they also use some twisted traditional teaching or claim some non existant Native Elder has given them the golden stamp of approval.  

Just my 2 cents worth .

 

Offline Mo

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Re: The Standing Bear: Center For Shamanic Studies
« Reply #35 on: March 26, 2006, 01:17:25 pm »
exactly right. and too often the fraud will give the name of a legitimate Elder / healer but the Elder doesn't even know them.  I've seen this happen.
point is i don't know of any legitimate ndn healer who has trained anyone outside their nation..do you?
mo

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: The Standing Bear: Center For Shamanic Studies
« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2006, 03:17:16 pm »
I have seen Elders help a person of another Nation , and often this help comes in the form of teaching , HOWEVER , just because a person has gone to a dentist and had a rotten tooth fixed ,
that does not mean they are now qualified to do dentist work on people ! ( and yes , in ndn time getting a rotten tooth fixed might take a few years )

If someone had a Great granddaddy who was a dentist , and they have sometimes felt suprised to find themselves knowing something about teeth no one ever told them , they still are in no way qualified to do dental work on anyone .

I think what Keguseno said was exactly right , about an organ in our body only working if it is in the body . I have seen a few people who  for some reason , were authorized by Elders to do ceremonies or healing outside of a Native community , but after a while , it always ends up going bad .  I think the relationship with Native communities and the culture in them is absolutely essential to keep the Spiritual traditions and ceremonies alive and in good health. When these things go bad , people and the culture do get
harmed . Both Native and non native .

Offline raven

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Re: The Standing Bear: Center For Shamanic Studies
« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2006, 03:38:30 pm »
Moma, Thanks for the input.
One thing that did stick out in your posting that applies here in my home, is that my husband carries the responsibilty of rites, ex: wedding, funeral, naming ceremonies just to name a few.
Whenever he is asked to preform say a wedding, he explains to those attending what he is doing and why, he explains these things so people do not walk away with confusion of why something was done the way it was done, these teachings that  were passed to him. He always , always, tells all ,who gave him these rites to preform such ceremonies and the why. He has never abused these rites, nor used them for profit in any manner whatsoever.
He has too much respect for his elders and the traditions to sell out as many do.
He doesn't go out and solicitate the traditions.

One personal note here: He once said to me "I never understood why Uncle Mick walked around with dried Malanta around his mouth, he then said now I understand why."

frederica

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Re: The Standing Bear: Center For Shamanic Studies
« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2006, 04:52:29 pm »
Exactly right Moma, I have always believed if you take what they are doing out of the culture, not using the language, and away from the land, performed by non-Tribal members, it is useless. Plus she claims Cherokee blood (grandmother x3), claims being taught by "Native American Mohawk Shaman", then hints at ties to Northern Maine Tribe, but can't prove this. I have problems with Cherokees doing Mohawk tradition. I do know oral tradition and genetic memory are two different things. Even the goose has to be taught to migrate. frederica

Guest

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Re: The Standing Bear: Center For Shamanic Studies
« Reply #39 on: March 26, 2006, 04:59:03 pm »
Quote


I think what Keguseno said was exactly right , about an organ in our body only working if it is in the body . I have seen a few people who ? for some reason , were authorized by Elders to do ceremonies or healing outside of a Native community , but after a while , it always ends up going bad . .


Maybe that's what happened to my ex-wife. She hooked up with a group and started doing ceremonies.  Ever since it seems she's had nothing but bad luck. You name it, it has gone wrong for her.

Offline Synapsis

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Re: The Standing Bear: Center For Shamanic Studies
« Reply #40 on: March 27, 2006, 04:17:12 am »
why do they always have to pick on standing bear??? gezzz poor guy

i feel as bad for him as i do for that christ fellow---you know---

Offline educatedindian

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Re: The Standing Bear: Center For Shamanic Studies
« Reply #41 on: March 27, 2006, 04:11:10 pm »
Moma P, I wish I'd said that. You certainly said it better than I could have. Would you mind us reposting those last two posts of yours on our other site? I was thinking of titling it "When White Shamans Refuse to Say Who Their Alleged Native Teachers Are".

Scarlet Kinney

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Re: The Standing Bear: Center For Shamanic Studies
« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2006, 04:25:55 am »
Although Al says I've not been banned from this site, I continue to get a pop-up window telling me I'm banned whenever I try to login on my computer. I've asked him to correct the problem, and/or to post the following message, but to date it seems he has not. I'm visiting my daughter, and was able to get on on her computer, so will post this notice myself. It also appears on my web site.
Notice to NAFPS Forum Members:
I will no longer communicate with any forum members whose only interest is in trying to discredit, malign or hurt me. I am very sorry that your personal and cultural history has been such a source of pain and suffering for you. I did not personally cause it. I will not accept blame for it in any form.
What I will do is listen respectfully and respond in a respectful way to anybody who wants to join me in an exploration of the issues at hand, with the goal of achieving some degree of tolerance, understanding, and perhaps even healing. To the few forum members who have been able to express their ideas to me in a non-abusive way, I thank you, and hope to maintain contact with you.
As I remain banned from the site, for whatever reasons or technical problems, I extend a warm invitation to anybody involved with it who wishes to take part in a mutually respectful continuation of the debate on this (my) site (www.thestandingbear.com) to do so, provided you follow the guidelines set out for doing so on the site's home page.
I will maintain my own forum regarding this issue on this (my) web site until or unless the following conditions have been met.
I will continue posting additional commentary to the essay that I've begun below (this notice on my web site). It think it may help to clarify my position, as well as what I'm doing.
Sincerely, Scarlet Kinney ?  

Al's Note: Since Kinney's ludicrous demands have already been posted elsewhere in the forum, I edited them out and request she quit spamming us with them. Also, patently offensive and false claims of hers were edited. We don't reward liars.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 am by educatedindian »

Scarlet Kinney

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Re: The Standing Bear: Center For Shamanic Studies
« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2006, 10:54:37 pm »
Is this a public forum or not, Al? As I said in my last post, which reintroduced the conditions that you deleted from my previous post, and which you have also declined to publish.
My conditions, not demands, for ending this dispute have not been published elsewhere on this forum, to the best of my knowledge, but are posted on my own web site, www.thestandingbear.com, on the Writings and Musings page. I invite anybody on here to go onto my site and read them.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 am by educatedindian »

Offline educatedindian

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Re: The Standing Bear: Center For Shamanic Studies
« Reply #44 on: April 01, 2006, 05:04:02 pm »
Ms. Kinney, read the link. Next time try doing some looking around before making a fool of yourself, yet again.

http://newagefraud.org/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?board=news;action=display;num=1143308351

Just how lazy are you in your research if you fail to notice threads with your name and your website's name displayed prominently in them? Just as lazy as it seems you are when it comes to researching Native beliefs, choosing instead to fall for phony versions such as Ohky Forest that fit a fantasy image to your liking.

I see a pattern in both your and your followers' ways: Claim expertise, spout off whatever nonsense comes into your heads, and then back off by claiming ignorance yet simultaneously maintaining you know far more than those poor dumb NDNs could about their own cultures and beliefs.

This is a public forum that rarely bans people, I think maybe a grand total of two since it's been up. You've been given ENORMOUS leeway, in part because we know from past experience that exploiters frequently hang themselves with their own words. And you haven't disappointed us. Each further raging contradiction only gives us more evidence of your being a fraud and exploiter.

But spamming is something we can't have. Neither can we have your heavy handed attempts to bully us into stopping our criticism. (Please look up "projection" in a psychology book, because that's what you frequently do.)

If you spam us again, then you really WILL be banned. We also have some survivors and friends of survivors of Nuage cult abuse in our forum, and if we find that your tactics are making them fearful of coming here, then we'll have to put an end to your attempts to control and dominate what can be said about you.