NAFPS Forum

General => Non-Frauds => Topic started by: educatedindian on February 09, 2007, 03:55:03 pm

Title: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: educatedindian on February 09, 2007, 03:55:03 pm
Got a request about this. This thread should include both advice and resources. How to keep PODIAs (People Of Distant Indian Ancestry) from falling for the frauds, what PODIAs should do instead, who they should go to. I realize much of this has been discussed before, but hopefully we can gather it in one place.

My advice is first, practice patience. For people who haven't grown up around the cultures, it can be frustrating to experience Indian Time for the first time. You need to learn there are good reasons communities and elders have for not telling new people everything they want to know right away, esp since they've been burned so many times before. Learn to appreciate the contrast between this and the fast-food no-waiting convenience-above-all mentality mainstream America has. It will take years for any NDN community to get to know and trust you, but it will be well worth it. In the meantime, why not think about doing something to earn that trust? Look for a way to help the people of your newly discovered heritage. It can as simple as being willing to listen and spend time with elders.

There are some other threads, particularly in this section Non Frauds, that are a good start. Ric has a thread about Metis, I started ones on contacting tribes, and the NAFPS Recommends thread has lots of good sources in general.
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: debbieredbear on February 09, 2007, 05:16:00 pm
PAtience is a good thing. Also, learning to keep your mouth shut and ears open. You can't learn anything when you are spouting opinions. Women should befriend NDN women first. I have seen women come down and become friendly with the men and then get rejected by the women. I have told women friends that in some communities you can get yourself in a whole lotta trouble hanging with the guys. Once they know, you, it's different. Sometimes.;) Befriending elders is a good thing. When I met my husband's family, I befriended many elders. His tribe is small and tightly knit. I had never been on a rez to live before. I was an urban NDN. See, it's not just PODIA that have probelms, IMO> It is anyone coming from outside the community. Getting to know those elders was a plus. I would offer to get them coffee, desserts, whatever at community gatherings. I would visit. I have been with my husband for 26 years now and I am feeling accepted on his rez. Yeah, the people have a right to be suspicious of someone showing up wanting to know all the beliefs etc. All the knowledge. They have been burned. Just my opinion.
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: Mo on February 12, 2007, 08:38:30 pm
i'd also add this. just because you discovered you have a long lost ndn relative does not give you a "right" to demand to be taught anything. i have seen this attitude often and it does the exact opposite of what the person is hoping for. i guess this goes along with patience. you have to be a trusted member of the community before people will open up to you.

another thing is when someone who was not raised in the culture or identified as ndn most of their life talks about how oppressed they are and uses phrases like "our people" when talking to other ndns. most of the times it makes people laugh and shake their heads. its also very close to sounding like a stereotype.
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: NanticokePiney on February 01, 2008, 02:54:38 am
 We had a guy who discovered his grandmother was Nanticoke and Moor and joined our tribe. He was a "online" ordained minister. In less than a year he was suddenly a spiritual adviser. He drove people so nuts everybody just ignored and shunned him. Now he hardly comes around and mopes around when he does. It is a shame because he's not a bad person.
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: Charlie Two Shirts on May 06, 2008, 03:59:28 pm
If a person wants to learn anything they have to learn first how to serve. If you go to an event find out in what ways you can serve. Working along side someone can start good conversations.
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: Kevin on May 09, 2008, 05:52:42 pm
I just learned my great great  great grandpa was 1/64th Cherokee - I was hoping I could call some of you cuz or bro.
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: VHawkins on January 27, 2009, 09:48:11 pm
I'd suggest just be yourself. I remember dad used to tell folks if they'd ask him if he was an Indian. He'd say, "Oh, I have a little Indian blood, not much, tho." And he had brown skin and eyes, and black hair.

So many PODIA say "I am half-Cherokee" yet you look at them and they obviously are at least 7/8ths White. They also say "one drop of Indian blood is precious" which makes people think you don't respect the rest of your blood-ancestry. Aren't you proud of all your ancestors? Both of these things just sound silly to anyone.

When talkin' to Indian folks, just be yourself. Don't try to be "spiritual". Don't talk about your "spirit guide" or your abilities as a "shape-changer". Talk about the weather, your job, your family, or what ever . . . talk about things you'd talk about to anyone who is NOT Indian. Best of all, TELL CORNY JOKES! And if the time comes to say anything about your own heritage after a few conversations spanning months, don't jump up and say "I am Cherokee!" If the opportunity comes up, say "Oh, I have heard we have a little Indian blood, not much tho. I've heard we are Cherokee, but I don't really know . . ." -- or something like that. Humility will get you further than boasting does. But then let it go . . . go back to talking about the weather and telling corny jokes. Maybe a time will come to talk about your heritage again, in another month or 2.

vh

Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: Defend the Sacred on January 27, 2009, 11:19:31 pm
Some thoughts about how to avoid getting abused or exploited:

I hope PODIAs, or anyone with a new connection to a Native community or individual, will really take to heart the words in the above posts. If someone who claims to be a spiritual leader is suddenly trusting you, an outsider, a stranger, with ceremonial details and asking you to participate in things you've always heard outsiders are not welcome to, something is wrong. It doesn't mean you're special, it means there's something really wrong going on with them and you may well be in danger. You need to check out everything someone says. The more exceptional it sounds, the more skeptical you need to be. Don't trust Google; don't trust what other outsiders to that person's Nation have to say about them. You need to talk to others in that person's Nation and home community.

If the person is legitimate, they will take a good long time to get to know you before trusting you with anything, if they ever choose to trust you at all. Trust has to be earned. And if they are an honest person, they will not be worried or offended that you need to ask questions, or that you want to take your time and talk to others in their community as well. If the person claims to be a spiritual leader but is no longer living on their reservation, even if they seem to have a good reason, even when people on the Internet like them, it's still a warning sign and you need to check it out.

This thread is on how to contact tribes: http://newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1038 IMHO we should pin the thread, and update it with websites as most Nations have them now.

Women in particular, if a man who is an alleged traditional spiritual leader contacts you on his own, outside of the traditional structures and protocols of tribe and family, be very suspicious. Especially if this happens on the Internet. If he was so traditional, he would have women in his family talk to you first. And he would be open about what's going on. If someone asks you to keep their contact with you, or their relationship with you, a secret... run. Again, there's something wrong there.

The reason so many exploiters are successful with PODIAs and other outsiders is outsiders don't know who to ask. Especially if they are being flattered by the abuser and being told that the abuser has the real scoop, and knows the stuff that ordinary NDNs don't. That can be incredibly heady to someone who is searching for an identity and a sense of belonging... and abusers know that.
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: two shadows on January 28, 2009, 11:24:07 pm
I read this thread the other day..and thought about it alot..I posted the following in another forum I participate in..and well..wanted to post it here..see what you all think..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



An open letter to the Indian Nations
« Result #9 Yesterday at 2:55pm »   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(I dont know why I feel the need to post this..but I do..for a great weight is on my heart..it has to do with the conflict between NDN, PODIA, and white. I don't know if it is truly a letter..or a prayer..but here it is. for you my friends to see..read and know my heart.)
=====================================
The members of the NDN nations..the "registered" ones are fearful..worried about the new agers, the plastic shaman who are out for a dollar..and they are worried about the desire of PODIAs (persons of distant indian ancestry), afraid their intentions, their actions (even if well intentioned) will result in greater pain and loss by their nation. ...their people.

This I understand..but I am podia..so what drives me? I want to feel complete..to be part of something bigger than myself.. I am an American, born of the melting pot, blended from many, and suffer from that loss of clarity, the loss of traditons. I reject the American "Corporate-ocracy", I reject that profit is the prime motivator for a culture.


There are "registered" members of the Cherokee nation who have no more "blood" than I..but whose ancestors appear on the dawes roll.. so why are they cherokee and I am not? BECAUSE they were raised cherokee and I was not. They know the stories, the language, the traditions.

I feel that blood quanta, tribal rolls, reservations, all these things and more are creations of an oppressive white government. In the old times, membership in a tribe or clan was decided by the members..not by some rules in a white man's law book. Long before the white men came the native peoples commonly practiced adoption..incorporation into their tribes..even of former enemies..it is because of the white men's laws and rules that much of the conflict now exists.

But that being said..I do not resent anyone's tribal membership..I want to take NOTHING from them..NOTHING. I dont want tax advantages or land, or scholarships ..nothing...EXCEPT...


Knowledge.

So ..people of the indian nations..
I want you to know that I humbly pray for and respectfully ask
for these things from the NDN people:

Teach me your language..so we can talk.
Tell me your story..so I can understand you.
Teach me your history..so I can teach my children.
Show me how you dance...so I can dance with you.
Show me how you sing.. so I can sing with you.
Tell me what you stand for..so I can stand along side you.
Tell me what you need..so I can help.
Show me how you speak to GOD..so I can pray with you.

And then..only then..someday..you will call me brother. 
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: that_dakota_kid on January 29, 2009, 01:29:52 am
Two shadows, your post reminded me of this thread I was just reading earlier in the day. The thread started about what makes an indian an indian. The poster redhawk started just like you and later the comments got more agressive as to wanting and demanding knowledge. If you want answers ask your elders and do the most important thing a person new in these ways are shut it, listen, relax and don't drop a thousand questions. HUMILITY is key. Take a step back from everything and watch what everyone is doing and you'll catch on. Blood quantum is irrelavant. Know who you are and where you're from, learn your language, know your ceremonies and customs. Always remember these words.... It's not about me ,it's about the people.
I'm basically summing up what everyone said but listen to them really and do what you can to serve the people.
my 2 cents
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: Defend the Sacred on January 29, 2009, 04:00:37 am
In the old times, membership in a tribe or clan was decided by the members...

That is the way it still is.

I believe this is the thread Dakota is referring to: http://newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1871.0

Shadows, you may want to look that thread over, and read some of the responses NDN people gave to these same questions.


OK, Shadows, I know this is not what you want to hear, and I'm not sure that I'm really the appropriate person to be saying it, but I think this needs a response (emphasis added) :

I want to take NOTHING from them..NOTHING. I dont want tax advantages or land, or scholarships ..nothing...EXCEPT...

Knowledge.
... ... ...
Teach me your language..so we can talk.
Tell me your story..so I can understand you.
Teach me your history..so I can teach my children.
Show me how you dance...so I can dance with you.
Show me how you sing.. so I can sing with you.
Tell me what you stand for..so I can stand along side you.
Tell me what you need..so I can help.
Show me how you speak to GOD..so I can pray with you.

I actually find that rather shocking. Do you realize you just said that culture and religion is "nothing"? It may not have been your conscious intention, but you just said culture is "nothing" compared to material benefits.

Do you realize you just asked that you be given all the things that people hold most precious and are reluctant to share with outsiders? That you come off as demanding you be included in cultural and religious things, and you seem to be assuming you'd be welcomed? I'm not trying to be mean here, but this is exactly the sense of entitlement that people here have been warning about.

I'm not saying this to anger or hurt you, but I think you really need to think about what you just said here.
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: two shadows on January 29, 2009, 08:37:15 pm
In the old times, membership in a tribe or clan was decided by the members...

 
OK, Shadows, I know this is not what you want to hear, and I'm not sure that I'm really the appropriate person to be saying it, but I think this needs a response (emphasis added) :

I want to take NOTHING from them..NOTHING. I dont want tax advantages or land, or scholarships ..nothing...EXCEPT...

Knowledge.
... ... ...
Teach me your language..so we can talk.
Tell me your story..so I can understand you.
Teach me your history..so I can teach my children.
Show me how you dance...so I can dance with you.
Show me how you sing.. so I can sing with you.
Tell me what you stand for..so I can stand along side you.
Tell me what you need..so I can help.
Show me how you speak to GOD..so I can pray with you.

I actually find that rather shocking. Do you realize you just said that culture and religion is "nothing"? It may not have been your conscious intention, but you just said culture is "nothing" compared to material benefits.

Do you realize you just asked that you be given all the things that people hold most precious and are reluctant to share with outsiders? That you come off as demanding you be included in cultural and religious things, and you seem to be assuming you'd be welcomed? I'm not trying to be mean here, but this is exactly the sense of entitlement that people here have been warning about.

I'm not saying this to anger or hurt you, but I think you really need to think about what you just said here.


Kathryn
I am not angry nor hurt..  and I do not think you are trying to be mean at all.
I did not wish to be seen as demanding anything..quite the opposite..
I think you accidentally omited this bit between the word knowledge
and the list

"So ..people of the indian nations..
I want you to know that I humbly pray for and respectfully ask
for these things from the NDN people:"


I really want to say I do not feel "entitled" to any of those things
I listed. But I will admit that I pray for the opportunity that I
keep my eyes and ears open for such opportunities.
 
At least some Podia (myself included)..feel rejected and unwanted by some tribal organizations
(although I have never been regected on a personal basis by any NDN individual)
and the plastic shamen dont make things any better.. those ...people...
prey on the podia for either financial gain or just because they want a sense of power or importance.

There is great potential for frustration and great opportunity for the frauds to step in
and take advantage of the podia because of it.

I really dont want to seem as if I feel any entitlement..because I do not..
have I explained myself? I suspect that I am still not being clear.
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: earthw7 on February 02, 2009, 03:52:22 am
What happen if the answer is NO!

Will you respect that NO

Will you back off if it was NO!
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: Isa1961 on March 29, 2009, 11:01:43 pm
I would just like to thank everyone who created this website, and who posts to it.
What is in my heart, and how I proceed outwardly with other people ARE two different things, and reading many of these posts, especially the newcomer info and the PODIA info, has helped me clarify a lot.

I really, really appreciate it.

Wado,

nv-wa-do-hi-ya-dv   (nuh-wah-doh-hee-yah-duh)
Isabel
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: BlackWolf on March 30, 2009, 01:09:00 am
Quote
There are "registered" members of the Cherokee nation who have no more "blood" than I..but whose ancestors appear on the dawes roll.. so why are they cherokee and I am not? BECAUSE they were raised cherokee and I was not. They know the stories, the language, the traditions.

Two shadows, They are Cherokees because their ancestors Walked the Trail of Tears and their people stuck with the Cherokee Nation through thick and thin.  We do pay the price for our ancestors decisions.  (It happens all the time.)  With that said.  Not all of them were raised Cherokees, and some don’t even know the stories, language or traditions.  But they are “Cherokees by blood” nevertheless and Cherokee Citizens. 

Being Cherokee is not totally a racial thing.  If your mostly racially white with a little Cherokee blood, then you would be just that racially.  But you would still be Cherokee by blood, because skin color or eye color was never a real big issue with the Cherokees. People were people.  It was all about the clan system. The case of Chief John Ross who was 1/8 Cherokee by blood and had blue eyes makes my point.  I don’t think he walked around showing whites his high cheekbones either.  He knew who he was and had nothing to prove.   

There are tribal members with a little blood, but politically Cherokees.  Some of them do know about Cherokee culture, history, spirituality, etc.  And some don’t.  The real mixed blood enrolled Cherokees that don’t’ know about Cherokee ways, don’t pretend like they do, and if they do want to learn something, they know enough about being Cherokee to know that you don’t demand things like you just did.  I think thats what separates the legit mixed bloods from the rest.  I know I can tell the difference after about a 30 second conversation with them.  In other words they know how to carry themselves. 

There are Cherokee communities in Oklahoma and NC where people were born there, raised there and will die there.  You can’t just take culture, spirituality, and traditions like its some kind of a commodity.  Because thats really offensive. 

Advice.  Be yourself.  Is learning how to stomp dance really going to change who you are?  I don’t think so.  If your searching for something, then maybe your looking in all the wrong places.  If it was meant for you to learn Cherokee Spirituality, and Traditions then it will happen.  If its not, then it won’t happen.  Don’t push it. 

Quote
So ..people of the indian nations..
I want you to know that I humbly pray for and respectfully ask
for these things from the NDN people:
Teach me your language..so we can talk.
Tell me your story..so I can understand you.
Teach me your history..so I can teach my children.
Show me how you dance...so I can dance with you.
Show me how you sing.. so I can sing with you.
Tell me what you stand for..so I can stand along side you.
Tell me what you need..so I can help.
Show me how you speak to GOD..so I can pray with you.

And then..only then..someday..you will call me brother.


Earthw7 said it well.  You don’t have an inherent right to anything regarding Cherokee Spirituality, culture and Traditions.  Why do you feel you have to be legitimized by Cherokees or Indians??  If you know who you are, then that should be all that matters.  If you want basic info, you can go to cherokee.org


 
Quote
I feel that blood quanta, tribal rolls, reservations, all these things and more are creations of an oppressive white government.

Cherokees and Indian Nations decide who their citizens are.  Not the US government or anyone else.  The BIA  recognizes the soverignty Indian Nations always had. 


Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: Synapsis on April 30, 2009, 11:02:04 am
nevermind
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: Tsu Dho Nimh on May 15, 2009, 07:14:59 pm
PODIAs (People Of Distant Indian Ancestry)

I thought PODIA was "Person Of Dubious/Doubtful Indian Ancestry"
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: seekingtruth on June 12, 2009, 04:58:45 am
Is it ever the case that a person with no NDA ancestry is ever adopted by a nation?
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: earthw7 on June 12, 2009, 10:09:16 am
go to this topic

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1294.0
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: Doucet_Indian on June 26, 2009, 01:38:21 pm
Hi:

 I wanted to bring up a point about this subject as it pertains to me. My situation is kind of the opposite of most. I didn't go searching for my Native culture, it has come looking for me.

I am from Louisiana, and am of Acadian descent. My family has always known we had Indian blood on both sides of the family, and I always assumed it was Louisiana Indian. A couple of years ago, I starting researchin my background and was surprised. My family is actually Mi'kmaq, as are many Acadians. I didn't have just one ancestor who was Indian, but many, and all are very well documented. Most of these ancestors were Indian women who married Frenchmen, which was very common. I was really surprised when I had my YDNA tested, and the results came back Indian. My surname is Doucet, and more research has revealed that many Mi'kmaq share that surname.

Although I have always been interested in Indian culture, I have always had a distaste for "plastic" Indians and New Agers who exploit Indian culture. I have actually been approached by Mi'kmaq in Nova Scotia about enrolling in a band.

There has been somewhat of a battle going on up there between Mi'maq and some Euro-centric Acadian researchers. When I shared my DNA results, I started hearing from some of these researchesrs who claimed that my DNA results were wrong. All of this has been interesting to say the least.

So, what am I doing? I am letting them take the lead. I would never presume to barge into the culture claiming that I am entitled. Overall I would have to say that this has been a positive experience so far.
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: abraxite on December 07, 2010, 03:24:52 am
As  a person searching for identity in a way, wish to know where to get DNA tests to see what i have as Indian lineage..haho
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: educatedindian on December 14, 2010, 01:38:11 pm
Do a search for our threads on DNA tests. They're often unreliable, giving both false positives and false negatives, and won't tell you what tribe your people might be.
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: shamani whitefeather on December 28, 2010, 01:06:40 am
Blessings from afar I have only just recently found out I have some native american ancestory in me...I have always been one with nature and its practices ( I remember a bit from my own mother growing up we were brought up with alot of natural native american healings.. ) ... always felt connected but not quiet known where I was meant to be..I came accross your forum and found it most helpful I want to learn more but know not where to start. the warnings Im reading of frauds are quiet scary as I too came accross a aparent local teacher preaching she was tasalgian medicine woman (spelt it wrong ) but also claims she is traditional gypsy amonst other paths with aka so called qualifications from teachers of the American Tribes I have never heard before... last heard this woman claims to be a full blood cherokee practioner ( yet she has no blood line nor any proof of training just a name of her apparent teacher that doesnt come up on google or anywhere on the net? .... She also claimed she was trained within a year and iniated into the tribe this year once again no proof of who , how and when ... I myself would never label myself something I am not but this one is and its sad because many gullable people are falling for it... as I knew her she went through several paths wiccan, balkin, viking, native american, hoodoo and gypsy and still claim to be all of these? yet claiming to belong to a native american Tribe? so here I stand wanting more knowledge from the authentic people not someone who claims they are 101 different tribes and paths? I Hence why I am here how do I get in contact with the right way to learn more about my path and 2 how do I discretly expose those that are oviously abusing the tribal names and authenticys?
another question is if one does not have any direct bloodline as a native american tribe member his that path for everyone anoys me when these people like the one I have described today wake up one day and go Im going to be a cherokee ... it takes time patience and much education to get up to half the speed of the true authentic tribal members and I cannot understand how one day they can me wiccan and then the next a tribal leader? any imfo on this matter will be well received and appreciated...
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: earthw7 on December 30, 2010, 06:37:20 pm
Just because a person has a Native American decent that happens to be native does not make them native,
We are defined by our families and if you do not know your family the Native people will not
accept you. Being Native is raised in your culture, langauge, history ect..is important.
We do have many people who were adopted and found their way home and their families
or the tribe teach them who they are relatived to.
Our Nations do not adopt people, individual families adopt people and that person has no right
to our culture, langauge and most of spirituality. They never talk for the tribe.

Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: Hair lady on March 02, 2011, 07:00:15 pm
 ;D I just say it like it is! I am a wonderful Heinz 57 sauce. I feel right at home out on the rez, in a city, and even over here in Europe. I have roots ALLL over the place. I don´t really worry about it. I mean aren´t there more imortant things in the world to worry about? I can offend ndn people just as well as I can offend any other kind of people. Man you shoudl see me feud with some memebers of my family! hehe I think all this walking on egg shells is just silly. Most ndns I know have thick skins, and are usualy teasing all the time when they see someone acting funny. I guess it´s all about feeling comfortable in your own skin no matter what colour it has. You either know who aour are or you don´t.

Just my opinion of course.
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: SunnyinNJ on April 29, 2011, 01:46:44 am
I think what's posted in this topic is really helpful.

I'm a librarian and family historian (not a certified genealogist) which means I'm researching the ancestry of my families (all of them), not teaching or being paid to research for others. 

I have reported Native ancestry that I have not yet been able to verify after 35 years of research.  I made a lot of foolish and embarrassing mistakes early in my research that resulted in doors being slammed in my face and people withdrawing from me.  It took me a while but I finally learned that even if the family stories are true, I was not raised as a Native person, I was raised as a white person.  I wasn't raised with any Native traditions or spirituality.  There were no Native American artifacts passed down in my family although I have a very vague, possibly imagined, memory of talk with my maternal grandmother about a cradleboard. 

People searching for their roots tend to be very enthusiastic, even obsessive, and tend to forget that the universe doesn't revolved around their quest to be Native American.  It's helpful to be told how to behave and still be respected.

Thank you.
Lorraine - SunnyinNJ
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: Epiphany on April 29, 2011, 02:09:29 pm
I think what's posted in this topic is really helpful.

I'm a librarian and family historian (not a certified genealogist) which means I'm researching the ancestry of my families (all of them), not teaching or being paid to research for others. 

I have reported Native ancestry that I have not yet been able to verify after 35 years of research.  I made a lot of foolish and embarrassing mistakes early in my research that resulted in doors being slammed in my face and people withdrawing from me.  It took me a while but I finally learned that even if the family stories are true, I was not raised as a Native person, I was raised as a white person.  I wasn't raised with any Native traditions or spirituality.  There were no Native American artifacts passed down in my family although I have a very vague, possibly imagined, memory of talk with my maternal grandmother about a cradleboard. 

People searching for their roots tend to be very enthusiastic, even obsessive, and tend to forget that the universe doesn't revolved around their quest to be Native American.  It's helpful to be told how to behave and still be respected.

Thank you.
Lorraine - SunnyinNJ

I really appreciate this topic (and entire forum) too. This opportunity to learn and discuss in a moderated civil environment is invaluable.

Some folks obsessed with finding NDN ancestry get angry and defensive when encouraged to do the actual work of genealogy, but ultimately I think that is what it takes, doing the work. Following the actual research trail rather than cobbling together a fantasy.

Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: snorks on April 30, 2011, 11:19:38 am
It is necessary to clear eyed and sober about this.  What I have found is that folks who are desperate to have that ancestry fall prey to exploiters.  For example, Brooke medicine eagle who is a White woman posing as an Indian gets a lot of people in her snare.  She presents an "Indianism" that is safe and feeds into some White ppls' fantasies or notions.  However, the reality is that Native Americans are as foreign as Egyptians or Chinese.  They have their own particular cultural ways that are foreign to many White ppl.  
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: nativemetalgrl on May 19, 2011, 10:14:03 pm
You know... It's really too bad this thread didn't stay more on topic.  I think this thread, had it stayed on point, could have been a very valuable resource for everyone.  Think about it.  If not for the PODIAs who don't know any better, the frauds wouldn't exist. 
I think that, instead of certain members at the beginning of this thread jumping right in and defending their supposed entitlement to NDN culture and demanding to be shown EVERYTHING right now, we should have made more of an effort to keep this tread on topic. 
So, in and effort to do just that, I will throw in a bit of my own advice.

Earlier in this thread, we saw something that just shouldn't EVER be done.  NEVER EVER demand to be taught about traditional things.  It seems that people who have grown up in mainstream America have this sense of entitlement that they will vehemently defend.  In this culture, we're taught we can "have it all" and "do anything we want."  While the intended message was more along the lines of careers and levels of financial success, most PODIAs mistake this to mean they have a god-given right becuase they're 1/32nd Cherokee to practice the culture and that the Cherokee community has some obligation to teach them at their request.  This is absolutely NOT the case and the more you "defend" your cherokee-ness and demand to be part of a community you never knew even existed until the 1990s when it became "cool" to be Indian, the more you'll push traditional people away.

Don't be pushy or demanding.  Be receptive, open minded and just observe.  There is a lot to be learned through observation and it takes NDNs a long time to warm up to non ndns.  Mainly because so many times before, they have been fooled by someone who seems on the level, then takes everything they're taught and exploits it.

Be patient, shut your mouth and observe.  Finding out you have a certain degree of minority heritage does not entitle you to strong-arm your way into their culture.  For example.. I'm 1/16 black, but NEVER would I EVER claim to be a black woman.  I would never pretend to know their struggle and I would never tell every black person I meet about my Black GGrandfather.  Nor would I rock a daishiki or cornrows.  It's not that I'm ashamed of this blood, I think it's actually kinda cool, but I wouldn't dream of trying to be part of their community just because I have a little bit of black ancestry. 

Don't try to hard to over explain exactly where your NDN blood came from.  Nobody needs a 5 generation run-down of your family history.  Whenever you launch into one of these lengthy explanations, people start to wonder who you're trying to convince - them or YOURSELF!  Don't talk about how your gggrandmother had high cheekbones and dark hair as if this is some kind of irrefutable proof of your indianness.  If asked what your tribe is, be honest and tell the person you have some cherokee - or whatever tribe it is - blood and leave it at that.  If they want details, they'll ask.  If they do ask, don't get long-winded.  Keep your answers short and to the point.  Again, leave your familiy history out of it. 

which brings me to another point... KNOW YOUR TRIBE!!!!!! Before you claim ANY heritage, do some fact-checking first.  A lot of people claim Cherokee where there is none.  There are several people on this board who probably know volumes more about genaology than me and I'm sure there are a few threads here you can reference.  Make sure there was actually an ndn relative and confirm the tribe and if there is no evidence there, then consider that the story you heard has probably been handed down through a few generations and could have gone through some changes.  for example: "people used to tell your GGGGrandma she looked NDN.. like a Cherokee" after a couple generations "I think she was Cherokee"  couple more generations "She was Cherokee" ... etc. 

I can't emphasize this one enough, I know it's been stated elsewhere, but I believe it warrants reiteration.  If a supposed "medicine person" takes a particular interest in you, yet you haven't known them for very long, BE AFRAID.. be very afraid.  Even FULL BLOODS have to earn the right to perform certain dances and ceremonies and this process can take a lifetime!  If someone is willing to just hand this "knowledge" to you, then it's bogus and it probably won't be long till your newfound "cousin" or "grandfather" is asking you for a loan.  NEVER EVER pay ANYONE for traditional knowledge or "lessons." This also goes for ceremonies.

Use your REAL name.  Resist the urge to take on an NDN name just because you feel it "speaks to you."  Naming is something that is taken very seriously by NDNs.  Most get their names as babies and some tribes change that name with each stage of that person's life.  Natives NEVER name themselves.  Even if they do, especially with Cherokees, they're not gonna be names like "little white dove" or "rainbow warrior."  Some REAL Cherokee names include Squirrel, Swimmer, Drywater, Dreadfulwater, Holmes, Holcomb, Mankiller, of course.  Most Cherokees today have more Anglo sounding names like Barnes, Smith, Robertson, etc.

Also, keep in mind that when you take a name like "yellowbird" or "Red Elk" or even ManyGoats.. lol you may be using someone's real family name!!! You'll be taken a lot more seriously if you forgo using these types of names.. even on message boards!

Another poster touched on this and I'd like to expand on it a little.  Women... If what appears to be a NDN man is chatting you up and coming on strong, the temptation can be there to let him snag you out.  Resist this please.  I've known several VERY good looking Native guys who systematically woo PODIAs and white women in an effort to either use them for sex or bilk them for cash.  One d00d I knew had this woman taking him on expensive vacations, paying his tuition and even his CHILD SUPPORT!!!  :o  They're well aware that non NDN women have the "long haired NDN warrior" fantasy and that they're willing to do just about anything to live out that fantasy.  Keep your guard up.

If you're gonna go to powwows.. holy crap, I could write VOLUMES about this subject!!!
I'll try to keep it brief. 
First, understand very few tribes have powwows as part of their traditions.  Cherokees, for example, DO NOT powwow.  Although, in recent years, the powwow has been added to the Cherokee National Holiday and many Cherokees today do dance powwow, I used to dance jingle a LOOOOONG time ago.  It is not part of the traditional Cherokee way.  When I grew up a little more, I stopped dancing powwow becuase I wanted to stay true to the traditions of my own tribe because our ways are threatened and need to be preserved in their true form.  But that was a choice I made. 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with PODIAs attending powwows.  It's what they do when they're at them what concerns me..
If you're gonna check out a powwow, please resist the urge to try to "look NDN."  Don't wear 15 lbs of turquoise, dye your hair black and rock an orange spray tan... just... don't.  It may look fine while you're standing in the salon, but get next to a naturally brown native and it will only serve to emphasize how fake the hair and tan look.  If you're pale as Casper the friendly ghost, then be pale.  No shame in it.  Do NOT wear fake buckskin or anything with fringe. 
Just dress as you would for a day at the park.  Tee shirts, jeans and sneakers are fine for spectators.  As long as your outfit covers you up and isn't revealing or tight, you should be fine.

There are many websites which deal with powwow etiquitte, so I won't go too much into it here, but just be yourself and be respectful.  Proper manners and having plenty of respect will never steer you wrong.

Understand that traditional native communities still hold fast to tradition, protocol and even gender roles.  These things (especially the gender roles) may seem archaic to outsiders, but it is these very things which have sustained our communities and families for many generations and will continue to sustain us for generations to come. 

If you have Native blood, take the time to verify and learn about it.  Have patience and respect.  Most of all, be open minded and willing to accept not just the interesting or mystical parts, but also the inconvenient parts like having to mind your mom and gramma at 38 years old. lol
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: Unegv Waya on May 30, 2011, 03:35:41 am
There are some very good words of wisdom and some excellent advice posted here.  I really like the advice about being wary of the powwow venues and some of those who frequent them.  In my experience I've found a lot of what some call "powwow NDNs" - those who only act NDN at powwows.  Away from the powwows they do nothing to follow any of the traditions.  Sort of like some church people who only act like they follow their faith on Sunday and do what ever pleases them the rest of the week.

Patience and being yourself are essential.  Like a few have said, it takes little time for an NDN to detect those who are wannabes or worse.  Those who merely are themselves, no mater how much different that may be from native ways, are the ones the NDNs will respect most.

More later.

dodadagohvi
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: NeoPaleo on October 17, 2013, 06:53:14 pm
This is the discussion that led me to join your community.
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: Epiphany on October 19, 2013, 05:17:44 pm
This is the discussion that led me to join your community.

Have you read the entire thread?
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: NeoPaleo on October 19, 2013, 05:44:55 pm
I have read everything, including writing be the same people on different forums.
I had been a "lurker" a long time before I joined.
Title: Re: For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Post by: Epiphany on October 19, 2013, 05:56:16 pm
I have read everything, including writing be the same people on different forums.
I had been a "lurker" a long time before I joined.

There is excellent information in this thread, including in the very first post:

Quote
My advice is first, practice patience. For people who haven't grown up around the cultures, it can be frustrating to experience Indian Time for the first time. You need to learn there are good reasons communities and elders have for not telling new people everything they want to know right away, esp since they've been burned so many times before. Learn to appreciate the contrast between this and the fast-food no-waiting convenience-above-all mentality mainstream America has. It will take years for any NDN community to get to know and trust you, but it will be well worth it. In the meantime, why not think about doing something to earn that trust? Look for a way to help the people of your newly discovered heritage. It can as simple as being willing to listen and spend time with elders.

If I ever discover that I have distant heritage, the wisdom in this thread will be wonderful guidance.