Author Topic: Warfield Moose, Jr.  (Read 56398 times)

Offline Cetan

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Re: Warfield Moose, Jr.
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2013, 05:25:25 pm »
As I said earlier I have not had direct experience with Warfield Moose but have sat in yuwipi ceremonies run by a man fro Rosebud who was given his altar by him. Unfortunately there are some who have 'sold out' and will charge for ceremonies but it doesnt mean they still dont have the ability to run ceremonies and have their spirit helpers come in. Perfect example is one very well know wicasa wakan from Rosebud who lets non-natives participate in his Sundance for the right donation, the joke used to be that you had to have the proper 'green' card. He may be a bad man but he is still a good medicine man and does doctoring for his local community. If people from Warfield's community say he is a real yuwipi man then I trust their judgement. My opinion is if the spirits come in and the person who puts up the ceremony gets the help they need from them then the intercessor is real.

Offline AnnOminous

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Re: Warfield Moose, Jr.
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2013, 09:20:51 pm »
Quote
If people from Warfield's community say he is a real yuwipi man then I trust their judgement.

There is one person, yes.  But Warfield no longer even lives at Porcupine.  Instead he travels in the US, Canada and Europe to do these ceremonies. 

If Warfield has the support of his community, and I mean his community at large, then why would he need to have a Blackfoot man, Jordan Bruised Head, be the intercessor at his sundance?  Warfield went to Kainai (Blackfoot) First Nations in Canada between 15 and 20 years ago to "give" Bruised Head a Sundance.  Bruised Head was the "chief" at Warfield's Sundance at Porcupine for at least 4 years.  During that time Warfield was also "training" Bruised Head to be a "yuwipi man." 

If a person has the support and respect of their own community he doesn't have to recruit from other Nations and other Reserves.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 06:46:42 pm by AnnOminous »

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Warfield Moose, Jr.
« Reply #32 on: July 14, 2013, 09:41:04 pm »
If a person has the support and respect of their own community he doesn't have to recruit from other Nations and other Reserves.

Or from non-Natives.

Offline Cetan

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Re: Warfield Moose, Jr.
« Reply #33 on: July 14, 2013, 11:16:38 pm »
Some people do use non-natives to get money. People like Leonard Crow Dog and Arvol Looking Horse who do ceremonies with non-NDN and take money as 'help' with expenses are two well known who come to mind - so are they both frauds? Or just sell-outs?

Offline earthw7

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Re: Warfield Moose, Jr.
« Reply #34 on: July 15, 2013, 04:40:07 pm »
Cetan
As you have a point out there are people who are Native from our communities
who do not do the right thing as you pointed out Leonard Crow Dog who is a
spiritual leader who has medicine and the gift to heal, but does not always do the right thing
when it come to money.
Arvol Looking Horse is not a medicine man who does not run ceremonies, he is the keeper which is
a very different catagory, I have only know Avrol to run an Inipi, he is give funds to travel
to speak but I have never heard of him running a yuwipi or other ceremonies.
Of course we can go down the list Chipps to Zephiers,
I guess the point is that we have our own
people who dont do the right thing, just like Warfield who is not in his community but doing ceremonies
in Europe.
At a meeting of elders and spiritual leaders it was said that our people are having such a hard time in
life that all the Spiritual leaders need to help heal there own communities before going to try to heal
the world, I agree with this statement.
On the other hand we have these non Native who are looking for peace in their lives that are willing
to try anything, they look for that greener pature over the fence; instead of looking into themselves for
the answer, making them prime tragets for frauds.
Do we call our own people frauds?
I guess that is the question?
They are enrolled members of our tribal nations.
They are spiritual leaders and medicine men.

The problem we run into is them taken money for their services!
We dont pay to pray!
On The other hand
A long time ago our spiritual leaders did not work because their job was to care for the
people so each camp would care for the spiritual leader make sure his family was feed
and his bills paid.
Today our people dont take care of our spiritual leaders so when they are asked to do ceremonies
for the people,
the people who ask for the ceremony make sure that they provides food and in our way we provide gifts
for help, such as blanket and ect... Today because our spiritual leaders have to drive to get place some
come a great distance the family who ask for help will give gas money.

I dont know if you have been to Avrol's home but he lives in an old trailer and his cars are always
breaking down, he has trouble keeping his lights on plus feeding all the people he cares for.
He makes his money to care for his familiy by speaking and he had explain this to the elders
and I was at the meeting and they all agreed to this about 15 years ago.

My point after all of this is if a person come to a ceremony and they had to pay a set amount of $$
to come instead of the gift giving accord to traditions which could be $1:00 or what the could afford
then that is fraud accoding to me only.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 07:29:58 pm by earthw7 »
In Spirit

Offline AnnOminous

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Re: Warfield Moose, Jr.
« Reply #35 on: July 15, 2013, 06:44:32 pm »
Earth I agree with your definition of fraud.  I also think that people who intentionally deceive people at their ceremonies, which I believe whole heartedly is something Warfield is guilty of, are the worst kind of fake and fraud.

Speaking of Arvol Looking Horse, I recently read a newspaper article regarding his ceremonial role at the 2013
World Peace and Prayer day in California.  "Speaking to a primarily non-indigenous audience, Chief Looking Horse led those who had gathered at the Live Oak Campround in Santa Ynez California during Summer Solstice through four days of sharing and ceremony."  The article isn't specific regarding which ceremonies he led, or how much was charged for attendance, but we are already aware that praying for "world peace" is a typical indicator of fraud.  Here's the article:  https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151471290696193&set=a.77546421192.86727.653561192&type=1&theater

(Edited to delete a sentence that apparently was a rumour)
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 05:05:03 pm by AnnOminous »

Offline earthw7

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Re: Warfield Moose, Jr.
« Reply #36 on: July 15, 2013, 07:41:52 pm »
Avrol leads an Inipi only and he never lived in Pine Ridge
nor has he ever had a trailer down there on the Pine Ridge Reservation.
He is from Cheyenne River Reservation at Green Grass
just down the road from me. he has always lived at Green Grass.
His girlfriend Paula is way passes child bearing years, she is now in her
late 50s and Paula's children are all grown from a previous Marriage
and it is known that Avrol never had any children because he cant have children.
He has never lived in Canada, he was just here helping
with the youth again on Standing Rock.
Oh! i read the article he was leading a prayer for world peace, That was
the ceremony they are talking about. he has been doing this world peace
thing for about 20 years now. he started in the Black Hills amongthe people
next thing we knew everyone in the blue sky jump on the world peace band wagon.
I never heard of Avrol starting a Sun Dance even the dance in Green Grass is done
by someone else, he just helps.
If you have information on this pregnant girlfriend i would like to know because
at this point he will be the last keeper because he has no children and as he reaches
60 years old the line will end with him as we are told
In Spirit

Offline Cetan

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Re: Warfield Moose, Jr.
« Reply #37 on: July 15, 2013, 08:13:53 pm »
I think one of the problems is that sometimes the person who sponsors a ceremony or brings a medicine man in will often ask the people they have invited to give a set donation for travel and expenses and often this is done without the medicine persons knowledge or approval. For example someone here in MI brought a yuwipi man she knew in to do a yuwipi and had sent out a message telling people that she was asking for each person to donate $35 and also there would be a limit of 40 (I think it was) people allowed to attend. I went because while I did not know the person directly I did know his family. But the people who came from Pine Ridge did not know there was a set donation being asked. Same with Arvol, he has been here 4 times I can remember in the past 25 years and each time the person who brought him (it was the same person each time) told people they had to donate at least x amount of dollars to attend the inipi and actually told one of my friends that he couldnt come because there wouldnt be enough room. Now the person who brought him is a full blood and should know better but the only excuse I can think of is he grew up off the rez. I certainly didn't mind giving a donation when someone comes for a ceremony or inipi since I realize that gas and pony maintenance cost money and when someone is traveling they are away from their family and not able to work at that time to buy food and pay for their families living expenses. 
It sounds like AnnOminous feels that Warfield is intentionally deceiving people during his ceremonies and everyone I know who has ever been in a yuwipi he has done say the opposite, that the spirits do come in and doctor. This is people from Pine ridge and from Rosebud.

Offline AnnOminous

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Re: Warfield Moose, Jr.
« Reply #38 on: July 15, 2013, 08:26:20 pm »
Sorry Earth, my mistake about the location of his trailer.  Thanks for correcting that.

As for the rest of what you wrote re Arvol, I'm glad you shared that.  I wrote what I was told, and accepted it as truth, but I wasn't there and have no first-hand knowledge.  If it ends up that I was passing on lies or half-truths, I'm sorry.  I hate that.

I am messaging you the name of the contact person at Six Nations if you want to follow up on what I wrote.  I'm also willing to delete that part of my post, as I don't have enough confidence in it being true any more.

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Warfield Moose, Jr.
« Reply #39 on: July 16, 2013, 07:15:15 pm »
I realize we're on a bit of a tangent here, but:

Re - ceremony and/or interfaith prayer with non-Natives:

Most of the Lakota I know make a pretty firm distinction between prayer and ceremony. Most folks I know consider prayer something anyone can do, especially if you do it in the language of your own ancestors. Whereas ceremony usually refers to the Seven Sacred Rites.  However, non-Natives usually have no idea there is any kind of distinction there, and are unclear on the terminology. So, if a non-Native describes something as ceremony, I'd ask the Natives that were there what really happened before calling it ceremony.

That said, I have participated in interfaith prayer events that were set up by Lakotas in a Lakota framework, and songs in Lakota were sung, along with making space for people of other cultures to also offer prayers and songs. What I saw was that, if culturally rootless non-Natives were allowed to witness how the space was set up, and the building of the sacred fire, and allowed to listen to the traditional songs, and see how offerings were made, they left that "prayer only" event to mimic these ways in their own lives, and even to sell them to other non-Natives as sacred Lakota ceremony.

Everyone offering prayer in their own language, and building the fire in an interfaith manner is one thing, in my non-Native opinion. But as soon as any degree of traditional ceremony is included, even if it's "just" the placing of flags, prayer ties, smudging, drumming and using sacred songs, the appropriators are there to steal it.

It's one thing when interfaith events are just prayer, or when the only non-Natives who are invited are trusted relatives, but any time these things are advertised and open to the public, they are now overrun with appropriators, there to data mine. My area is now overrun with pretendians, some of whom got their start by watching and imitating NDNs at these events.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 10:34:41 pm by Defend the Sacred »

Offline Porcupine2013

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Re: Warfield Moose, Jr.
« Reply #40 on: July 26, 2013, 04:48:01 am »
Sorry.. I believe that was Jerome Lebeaux who does that!!

Offline Porcupine2013

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Re: Warfield Moose, Jr.
« Reply #41 on: July 30, 2013, 11:43:33 pm »
I think you are mistaken this person I'm pretty sure Jerome Lebeau does that a  lot!!

Offline Ironshield34

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Re: Warfield Moose, Jr.
« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2013, 04:11:59 am »
As I said we have been to sing for him and I know when we went the grandfathers came and doctored the people. He was tied up as u are supposed to be but it has been a while since we went back so he may have lost his helpers for what he is doing and may be faking it now buti will have to investigate and get back as I said I live here and was raised here and have been part of this way of life since I was a wee lil guy!!!

Offline Rapid winyan

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Re: Warfield Moose, Jr.
« Reply #43 on: September 30, 2013, 11:33:02 am »
I live in porcupine Sd. I witness warfield moose's ceremony and I thought he was sincere what I notice was he never talked bad about any medicine man or people. I'm 58 years old Oglala Lakota of the knife chief community and I know of warfield moose's father and he was very proud of all of his children and i know he would be sad to have people talk ill about his children or in fact other medicine men on the pine ridge reservation. I'm not a judge or juror but I read all of those comments and I don't feel that warfield jr is doing what people are saying. One fact is he runs a sundance for a number of years I'm not sure but my son used to dance With him and he turned out to be a good boy and I'm happy that he is alive and still with me. I hope my words are enough that we don't tear down people or medicine people ,their life is hard enough. My family supports all of the moose family, they are good people and warfield moose sr was a great teacher and humble man, I don't think he would raise his children in a disrespectful manner. I just read a article by a lady from rosebud by the name of vi Waln , sicagun times and she wrote about warfield moose and how she was honored to called him friend and the wonderful book and CD he did. So I'm sorry I have been to positive on this site but as a mother I feel I had to add my two cents for what's it worth and tell you that it's not fair to talk bad about anybody that has connection to the spirit world for which I know warfield moose has because of my experience praying with him. Thank you for reading this. Pilamaya yesto

Offline milehighsalute

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Re: Warfield Moose, Jr.
« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2013, 03:15:35 pm »
Warfield Moose Jr. sounds like another Native who has taken advantage of people.
As I post this I want to let you know in way do I support or condone this behavior.

On the other hand
Tal what you describe is basically what happens in a ceremony,
Everything is blacken out no light is to be shown, or there would be no ceremony,
no one eats or drinks anything, NO FOOD IS ALLOWED IN THE CEREMONY
the leader will bring water for the spirits
we sit for hours waiting, which a person is supposed to be praying,
Everyone who has come for prayers must say them out loud, never heard of people praying for
world peace at a ceremony the prayers are supposed to be about self,
We know that we can wait for ceremony for a long time so we make sure our food is something that
cooks slow,
I have been to ceremonies where we were in for 8 hours or more depends on the prayers,
This is why I believe NO non natives People should be in ceremony they are always looking for
that quick fix for their problems
. Plus no one pays to pray. That should of been your first
clue NO ONE PAYS TO PRAY,
agreed....my gf is white.....she does the most respectful thing a white person could do...she STAYS WHITE.....she once been invited to a sweat, she understood that she was a GUEST and acted accordingly.....but she pretty much stays out of the way