Charles Benson AKA Chuck Two Fingers

[educatedindian]

What else can I do, Paul, besides wait for an answer from them? You're whining at me "Gimme what I want, now!" won't make them answer any quicker. And you're imagining him "found guilty" when no one else has said that just makes you look silly.

It's unintentionally funny when you label yourself and a middle aged Christian preacher as "kids" though.

And our new member suddenly claiming he (I'm guessing as to the gender) has to remain anonymous doesn't help you. By your standards, we shouldn't trust a thing Backatya or anyone associated with him has to say, and we should immediately delete everything from him.

[backatya]

It's basically a family/friend forum.   We asked several fluent speakers (family and friends) to help us with our language skills, and to put together a place to meet and catch up with each other.  I don't understand why that's such a problem. You know how many people search Yahoo for the word Lakota, and add themselves to groups saying they're reincarnated Indian Princesses or some such nonsense?  If you had a family site, would you want every reincarnated Indian Princess finding her way to you?  Would you want to spend your day weeding them out?  Is that even possible?  Would you want some nut having access to your personal information?  You KNOW the internet is full of people with issues.  Some of these very same were blocked from the site when we chose to make it private.  They're angry, and this is how they retaliate.  Embarrassing, but that's the way they play.  If this is the way they think they'll get even, whatever.  We'll stand back and give them all the rope they need to hang themselves.  That's fine.  The more serious side to this is that this site has given out personal information.  You want to put our site link up, go for it.  However, putting people's addresses and phone numbers up, and their place of employment??  Doesn't it strike you as strange that a complete stranger would know all this about somebody?  Wouldn't it seem that this person has known Chuck for many, many years?  He has, but is now angry.  In fact, he was instrumental in starting our site, but due to an argument, is now trying to ruin Chuck's reputation.  People talking trash is nothing new, but putting someone in harm's way by assuming that these people are credible sources, is simply irresponsible.   This is a personal vendetta.  That's all it is.  Whether or not I choose to reveal myself, has nothing to do with my speaking the truth.  These people are using their connections to attempt to discredit a very dear friend of mine, and I'll stand by him AND his reputation.  If you choose to label me a spammer, so be it.  Really, it makes no difference to me.  If you want to call me Mike, you can do that too.  Doesn't change the truth.  In all fairness, at least take Chuck's address and contact information down.  Endangering someone's family and jeopardizing their jobs based on hearsay, is simply not right.

[Skully]

Ferget it. It's like beating your head against a parking block.

It damages the concrete, and Al is right, it makes me look stupid.

[educatedindian]

BYA, actually what you say makes sense about why the group went private, though I have no idea if the second part of what you say about what happened and who specifically did it is true or not.

No idea about the Mike comment, though.

The phone number was actually posted by Paulie, his boss's came from the original accusers. I'll delete his boss's number and the address and email addresses, at least. It's up to Paulie if he wants Benson's number deleted in his own post.

I haven't heard back yet from the two original people I got the information from.
This has been a damned frustrating experience for me as well.

[One Hawk]

Here ya go Backatya......Or should I call you Chuck?

Below is the description on his site http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lakoliyapi/
 
 Description
 
Hau. Léciya Lakota kin wólakoliya na lakol wico'han iwoglake mniciyapi. Lakol oyate hunh Wazi Paha na Wakpa Waste na Sicangu nahan ??nyan Najin oyanke etanhanpi ounyan kin le kágap. Tuwa tanyan lakoliyapi kin hécegla lakoliya wóglakapi kin onspekiyapi kte. Eyas Lakota tuwe kes iyuskinyan upi okihipi kte!

Hau. Lakotas meet here to talk about Lakota language and culture. This site was made by Lakotas from the Pine Ridge, Cheyenne River, Rosebud and Standing Rock Sioux reservations. Only those who are fluent speakers will be allowed to teach the Lakota language. However, all Lakotas will be joyfully welcomed!

 So if this site is for "Lakotas" why is Chuck there?
 The statement about who started the site is untrue as well because Chuck started it and he is neither Lakota or from any of those places.
 True, he does speak the language well. This is because he did an immersion to learn it so he could make people believe that he is Lakota.
 And believe me, I am not doing this out of spite or jealousy (Chuck has nothing to be jealous of, except for this fraud his life is simple) I am simply tired of all the ndn wannabees on the internet dis-respecting the culture by telling people they are something that they are not. No matter that the site does, in fact. help keep the langauge alive and informs on cultural topics, lieing in order to do it is pure dis-respect and fraud.   
 And for him it is more than the language. He performs Lakota ceremony as a Lakota holy man. He drums at powwows as a Lakota drum group. And he uses his site to get people there ( especially women) to feel sorry for him and send him money. To check this, join his site, write some of the members and ask them.
 As for this topic going into the "needs research" file it seems to be only fair that further investigation should reveal the real truth.

[backatya]

All the information you just now posted was provided by a man that, until a few months ago, called Chuck nephew.   However, I understand your position.   Just keep in mind several things here.  The man feeding you this information, is the very same man that asked Chuck to perform adoption ceremonies several times in the past.  He's known Chuck all these years, as is clear because the information he'd provided at the onset of this mess goes back to Chuck's school days, and yet NOW Chuck's a plastic shaman?  Seriously, is any of this making any sense?  This man is angry, and he's turned on someone he's been close to, and respected, for many, many years, and is now trying to turn people against him.  Why would he say he isn't jealous or being spiteful unless he was trying to defend his ways?  He's deferred to Chuck many questions on culture and language on so many occasions, but suddenly, NOW Chuck is plastic?  If this is what he wants to do, he has to live with himself.  The important thing here is, you've removed the personal info, and for this we are all grateful. 

I'm sure this guy will give you names of these supposed taken advantage of women who have been robbed of their money.  Why they would still be members of our site, I can't say.   I'm guessing they're former friends, and now plants.   

It's easy enough to find liars.  Your site wouldn't be here otherwise.   It's up to the rest of us to bring on the truth.   It'll come out.  Not worried.  However, please DO interview the members of our group.  You're welcome to join us any time.   We've nothing to hide.  Just a bunch of friends getting together.  We have around 50 members, most of us ndn's. 

Let's do keep this in the 'needs research' file.  We appreciate your effort in getting to the bottom of this. 

Oh and lastly, as much as I aspire to learn a thimble's worth of what Chuck knows about language and culture, I am not him.  Just a friend, and a staunch supporter.  Thank you for allowing me to have a voice.

[Skully]

Backatya: The One Hawk is an Al Carroll sockpuppet account.  He's really out there. Al, call your mom. She wants to give you a message.

[backatya]

You have part of that right Big Paulie.  It's a puppet of some sort, but it's not Al.  We know who it is. 

Al has been really helpful in this, once we got everything straightened out.  We all just have to remain civil and calm, and these people will run out of steam.  I can put the truth to anything they throw out there.  We'll just wait them out.  It's only a matter of time. 

[One Hawk]

 I am not Al anybody nor am I anyones puppet.
 Yes we have known of Chuck for several years but not back to any school. The information I posted comes from our own observation of his actions and reports from others.
 We do not just except what others say about a person, that would be un-fair, we do our own investigation of reports. Investigation into the reports on Chuck has verified our suspicion of him. He is not the Lakota man that he has led people to believe he is for years.   
 
 Chuck .....oops, I mean Backatya, you have no clue who I am, man or woman. I am an observer, that is all.  I don't know any cousin, uncle or other relative of yours, we are focused on you. If you think you do know me then give a call and we can talk.
 
 One thing we do agree with is the revmoval of the personal information. It is not right to post that publically until the real truth is found.

[backatya]

The information I posted comes from our own observation of his actions and reports from others. 

You've not proven a thing.   You are repeating hearsay, and that's not proof.  That's gossip.  We'll wait for Al to complete his investigation.

If it makes you feel any better to call me 'Chuck .....oops, I mean Backatya', you just go right ahead.  It would just prove you wrong once again. 

[educatedindian]

Paulie, I think you've been on Yeagley's site too long. Like Yeagley and John Martin, you keep imagining you see me everywhere, and that anyone who agrees with me somehow must actually be me. But like Martin's paranoia, I'll take that as a compliment of how successful I am in making my points and winning arguments.

If you doubt Onehawk, the other mods in here, Frederica, Debbie, Barnaby, and Pat, can confirm the ISPs are totally different. And do you seriously think I could get strong NDN women to lie for me? I know better than try. (I expect you do too.) I also am getting pretty tired of your cheesy accusations without proof. For a scientist proud of looking only at hard facts, you sure do like to pick and choose what "facts," or even invent them to fit what you think before you know all of what's going on.

This has been one of the more difficult cases NAFPS has ever been asked about, and I think everyone involved has been pretty badly battered. Part of what seems to make this whole thing so rancorous is that the people involved know each other so well, and seem in many cases to be related by blood and adoption ties.

I did receive an answer back from one of the original people to bring this to my attention. And what he had to say, and the evidence he produced to back it up confirms much of what he originally accused Benson of:

Benson *has* done Lakota ceremonies. He openly admits to it in an email in which he also makes a lot of accusations against the people angry with him. There are literally dozens of people mentioned in that email, and it would hurt most of them to see their names dragged in here too. So in the next post I'll just post the relevant parts of that email.

And the original accuser also agreed to come forward, so I'll repost his email in full in the second post after this one, including a very long list of people he said will confirm what he said.

A quick thing about that online group: If you look through the posts it's clear the group is far more than a language course. It's largely about Lakota spiritual traditions. Yes, the group does not teach details of ceremonies (unless they were in the many deleted posts), but more than half the posts are Benson discussing about Lakota spirituality. Mighty strange for a Lakota language course and family group. And there are also those huge numbers of posts that have been deleted. It's obvious those deletions came from a lot of conflict. This is clearly not just two accusers like it seemed to be originally, but a great many angry Lakotas.

[educatedindian]

The email where Benson admitted several times to doing Lakota ceremonies. Arrows added to the most relevant parts.

-----
Forwarded Message

To: lakoliyapi@yahoogroups.com
From: "Chuck" <lakoliya@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 09:00:06 -0000
Subject: [lakoliyapi] The one and only response to [Name deleted] drama...I'm done

....[Name deleted] talked about feeling the need to help me go to South
Dakota for hanbleceya if I needed it (I ended up not needing his
help). You tried to talk him out of it. WHY? Why is that any of your
business?!?

....You have accused me of being "controlling" . Who or what have I tried
to "control"? I don't need this class or site, I'm already fluent in
Lakota and well versed in the culture and history, thank you. And I
have real natives, many full bloods, that respect me and

>>>>have asked me to do ceremonies, etc. for them and their families. I didn't
promote myself or push myself on them, they came to me.

....As if all the other things aren't enough, you intentionally tried to get him to replace

>>>>>me doing the hunka ceremony in November. This is not today; he told me himself about it a few weeks ago and I just found out that you did this in a
class with others present. Why?!? Why?!? Besides the fact that it's
none of your business, nor is it your place under any circumstances
to even suggest such a thing, this is not your "class project". In
spite of your recent attempts to invite as many people as possible
from the class to attend,

>>>>>this is a sacred ceremony that has been planned for almost a year!

....You've successfully sabotaged

>>>>>our ceremony. Now because of your most recent tirade and
attempt to manipulate there are a number of other people who don't
want to be involved.

[backatya]

Did the accuser mention that HE was the one asking Chuck to do the hunkapi, until he got mad at him?   Chuck had performed several for him in the past, but now he's plastic?   Come on.  Give us some proof here.

[educatedindian]

And the answer from one of the original accusers, along with a list of witnesses. The two of them have a long history of service in the tribal govt, and were vouched for to me by traditionalists.

I've deleted the phone number and enrolllment number and email addresses, but will pass along any requests to contact.

-----

Dear Mr. Carroll:

My name is Cyril Jerome Rousseau and I am an enrolled member of the Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe, enrollment number [deleted].  I am the one who brought attention to Chuck Benson being a fraud.  I contacted a cousin, Gay Kingman-Wapato, about how to prevent him from performing sacred Lakota ceremonies.

I have heard Chuck telling me that he has went on hanbleciye (vision quest) in Pine Ridge several times.  He has told me of performing Inipi ceremonies.  He has told me of doing hunka ceremonies.  All these ceremonies must be performed by a Lakota Wakan Wicasa (Lakota Holy Man).  I am a whistle blower in this case because Chuck Benson is NOT a Lakota.  If I am wrong on this then case is over.   Every Lakota I know gets their children enrolled.  Have him produce his enrollment card.  He does not possess one.

His father was C. A. Benson, Sr., who was born in Cleveland, OH and he was of Irish descent.  His mother Norris Mary (Snedeker) Benson was born in Panama City, Panama and she was of Cuban/Panamanian/French descent.  They are both deceased.  He has told students in the lakoliyapi and Lakotiya language classes that both his parents were part Lakota and that he grew up on the Pine Ridge Reservation.  He is living a fantasy and his lies have caught up to him.

I am sending a posting that Chuck sent to all the members of the Lakoliyapi yahoo group on October 16, 2007 at 9:00 EDT.  In this posting he ADMITS that he was going on a hanbleciye (vision quest) and some members of the class wanted to provide funds for his travel to Pine Ridge.

 He also ADMITS that he has conducted hunkapi ceremonies for other Lakota.  He conducted one for me on November 10, 2006 in Tempe, Arizona.  
There are 4 ways to get adopted in the Lakota traditions.  One is through blood, then through marriage, Hunkapi Ceremony, and "if it feels right between each person, then it is so."  Since I am a Lakota elder, and a veteran, I am entitled to adopt in the latter way.    

The following are people from the classes who have knowledge of Chuck Benson Jr., professing to be performing hanbleciye, hunkapi ceremonies or inipi (sweat lodge) ceremonies, and some witnessing his actual performance.

  
Joann Goff               [email addresses deleted]        
Mark Goff                      
Cheryl Grice              

Lisa Kash                  
Bev Martin                             
Georgia Rousseau        
Monique Rousseau        
Larry Swimmer                 
Kathleen Franklin              

May I suggest that when you contact them, that you have them attest to their knowledge of these facts.  (i.e.  Have you ever seen or heard of Chuck Benson Jr., performing Lakota sacred ceremonies, such as hunkapi, hanbleciye, or inipi.)

The posting in the other email I am sending, where he admits to conducting sacred ceremonies should be enough to silence the naysayers.

I hope this is what you were asking for.  I am prepared for you to use my name.  I can be reached at [Number deleted].  I may be able to get more information if you feel it is needed.

Thank you for your help.

C.J. Rousseau

[educatedindian]

I was posting the email at the same time as your answer, BYA, so you didn't see it yet. Yes, he did.

Benson is not like the usual people we discuss here at NAFPS. No money changing hands, etc. So to me the best place for this thread to remain is under Research Needed, even though many say he's presenting himself as Lakota when he's not.

It seems at least a few Lakota accept him doing ceremonies, but many more are angry with him, since he's adopted and they feel he has no right. I think it was EW who pointed out, for the non Lakota in here like myself, that being an adopted Lakota does not confer the right to ceremony.