NAFPS Forum
Odds and Ends => Etcetera => Topic started by: antiunilateral43 on December 08, 2014, 10:26:42 pm
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Would there happen to be anyone out there still willing to discuss this topic any further with me as it was my grandparents who came out of this tribe directly..
My Santee lineage is as follows:
Grand and Jane davis(full bloods)
Rachel Davis(full blooded great great grandmother)
Rachel Davis and Adam Singleton) Adam is the pets native and a quarter African american at this point but from another tribe
Lula singleton (great grandmother )
Lula Singleton marries Naketer Vann who's 100 percent African american
Lueva Ruth Vann (grandmother )
Who marries William Smith (also native and black)
Brenda Lyndell vann (my mother )
And finally me
Craig Lamont Vann
So as far as blood quantum goes what side of the tree do I fall on here (questions regarding validity of ties to D L N peoples aside)
Two words passed down to me from lueva Ruth vann when my family's history was passed to me orally(traditionally)
"Wopida " which she said meant "thanks" and pezuta"
Which she said meant simply a certain type of root from a certain plant that my grandmother Rachel used to pick and use to cure sickness in local townspeople in sumpter south Carolina where she was raised. Those are the only two words passed to me....Ive been doing some traveling recently in the Dakotas to find out for myself personally if indeed these are the same people...I was also at a meeting September 23 in sisseton at agency village rez where a fourth was mentioned
D/L/N. And lastly a "T" takota..I've spoken to some very old wicasa from their early 60s to early 70s and even some young and very brilliant historians in places like niobrara Nebraska...sisseton. Rapid city SD and a few others ..they all said the exact same thing.. That the Carolinas are indeed the ancestral homelands of oceti sakowiin..the seven council fires...the story that seemed to repeat itself was the one I heard about before this supposed migration from back east to the plains areas in which there were individuals who had "visions of a pale skinned race who could kill them without touching them." Before ceremony I thought about and asked myself what it could have meant .and the answer that came back was "guns" and then another man said to me "and disease too" I've
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All I have to offer is a report. From my grandmothers own mouth ...a conversation that took place when I was around the age of thirteen . I had made a derogatory statement about natives while watching a television program. My mother (god rest the dead ) responded very sternly upon hearing what I had said in the house. And immediately sent me to my grandmother's house for a lesson in our family's history that way back we were descended from native peoples which at the time I didn't believe ..ive known my grandmother all my life ..and she was far from being a woman. That lied and was highly educated ...she mentioned the name Santee several times over ....gave me words. Two of them which strongly resembled the d dialect of Dakota which was spoken really close to the area of the coast of sc ..my family were Davis...Mitchell and Enoch and singletons ...as for my approach to things like ceremony ?? Those are personal but I don't mind exposing myself on here to you.......
I come from a highly disfunctional family
Evidence of generational trauma
The task of breaking that cycle in my own family
Has fallen to me ..I didn't chose it it chose me
I'm perhaps the most likely to fail
Events of last year loss of children and bereavement
Then an extraordinary incident of walking thru the street and hearing inipi songs in the middle of a Harlem street caused me to call around to places like pine ridge to ask questions as to why that happened ...and I got my answer ..which caused me to leave new York with courage and conviction as regards to what I was doing which led to other things. And finding out about ways to heal my sick spirit and heart...
INI GHA GHA humbedecha. Wiwang wacipi ...prayer and then more prayer. Making chanshasha. Picking red willow. Being of service to others. Honoring my promises and keeping my word and being honest. Being brave ...giving flesh 7 times over ....so yeah I. Been learning quite a bit under some good people and never ask cause I ain't gonna say who lol. Omani luta chose me
Yuhapi anpetu luta "
Bduha naghi sica oyate "
Pidamaya Edo
And speaking the d feels good
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i found Grand Davis b. 1859 d. 8-22-1900 Marion South Carolina
Spouse: Jane Ella b. 1869
Children
Fanny b. 1879
Mary b. 1892
Elliot b. 1893
Louise b.1894
Peter b. 1895
Golda b. 1898
I found Grand Davis 6th great father Morgan Davis came into this country in 1622 from Wales there is no mention of any Indian blood
there is Wales and Scottish blood,
This is all side of the family
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Since "Antiunilateral" never posted an intro, and the Santee of So. Carolina thread http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2182.0 temporarily devolved into a discussion of one person's genealogy and desire to learn ceremony, I've moved this tangent here to etc.
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I found Grand Davis 6th great father Morgan Davis came into this country in 1622 from Wales there is mention of any Indian blood
there is Wales and Scottish blood,
This is all side of the family
Did you mean, "there is NO mention of any Indian blood" ?
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antiunilateral43, by publicly disclosing here your own traumatic past, you are potentially making yourself vulnerable to anyone who will tell you want to hear, to abusers who know how to groom needy people. If someone tells you that they recognize your spiritual nature, that they know your spiritual family, and that they can teach you NDN ways - will you fall for that? Or will you be able to practice discernment and healthy judgement so that you can steer clear of frauds?
Also, the members here should not have to apologize for speaking to you plainly, we should not feel that we have to be sensitive to you because you have had a difficult past. And we should not have to do your genealogy for you.
A grandmother who said some things, visions, a few words - this does not make you NDN.
You can have your genealogy professionally done, or learn to do it yourself. This means documenting each step of the way. This does not mean being led by assumptions and wishes. You may or may not have distant heritage. You can find out for sure.
If you have distant heritage, you can find ideas already posted here on the forum for folks in that situation.
Do this first, you might not even have distant heritage.
I understand how it can feel to have had a rough childhood, I understand how it feels to yearn for connection and family. I also know that presenting our own vulnerabilities to people we do not know online is not a good idea. Ultimately, we can not help you. Earth has already done quite a bit, I don't know if you are hearing her.
Do your genealogy, then if you want, read up on the history of the area where your people come from. You have a lot of work to do. Enjoy the adventure, it may take you to unexpected places and realizations.
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Name: Grand Davis
Event Type: Census
Event Year: 1870
Event Place: South Carolina, United States
Gender: Male
Age: 26
Race: Black
Race (Original): B
Birth Year (Estimated): 1843-1844
Birthplace: South Carolina
Page Number: 27
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Grand Davis M 26 South Carolina
Jane Davis F 22 South Carolina
Rachel Davis F 5 South Carolina
Thomas Davis M 3 South Carolina
Grand Davis M 1 South Carolina
Household ID: 217 , Line Number: 31 , Affiliate Name: The U.S. National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) , Affiliate Publication Number: M593 , GS Film number: 000553008 , Digital Folder Number: 004275976 , Image Number: 00548
Name: Jane Davis
Event Type: Census
Event Year: 1870
Event Place: South Carolina, United States
Gender: Female
Age: 22
Race: Black
Race (Original): B
Birth Year (Estimated): 1847-1848
Birthplace: South Carolina
Page Number: 27
Race: Enumerators could mark "W" for White, "B" for Black, "M" for Mulatto, "C" for Chinese [a category which included all east Asians], or "I" for American Indian.
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Grand Davis
United States Census, 1900
Name: Grand Davis
Event Type: Census
Event Year: 1900
Event Place: Sumter city Ward 1, 4, Sumter, South Carolina, United States
Gender: Male
Age: 41
Marital Status: Married
Race: Black
Race (Original): B
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Relationship to Head of Household (Original): Head
Years Married: 10
Birth Date: Jul 1859
Birthplace: South Carolina
Marriage Year (Estimated): 1890
Father's Birthplace: South Carolina
Mother's Birthplace: South Carolina
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Grand Davis Head M 41 South Carolina
Janie Davis Wife F 31 South Carolina
Fannie Davis Daughter F 21 South Carolina
Mary Davis Daughter F 8 South Carolina
Elliott Davis Son M 7 South Carolina
Peter Davis Son M 5 South Carolina
Louisa Davis Daughter F 6 South Carolina
Carrie Davis Daughter F 4 South Carolina
Golda Davis Daughter F 2 South Carolina
Annie S Dick Niece F 14 South Carolina
District: 131 , Sheet Number and Letter: 22A , Household ID: 519 , Line Number: 40 , Affiliate Name: The U.S. National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) , Affiliate Publication Number: T623 , GS Film Number: 1241543 , Digital Folder Number: 004120583 , Image Number:
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Adam Singleton
South Carolina Deaths
Name: Adam Singleton
Event Date: 03 Feb 1940
Event Place: Friendship, Clarendon, South Carolina
Gender: Male
Race (Original): Colored
Race: Colored
Age (Original): 62y 0m 1d
Birth Year (Estimated): 1878
Birth Date: 01 Feb 1882
Birthplace: Clarendon, South Carolina
Marital Status: Widowed
Spouse's Name: Rachel Singleton
Father's Name: Buster Singleton
Father's Birthplace: Clarendon, South Carolina
Mother's Name: Charlotte
Mother's Birthplace: Clarendon, South Caroina
Occupation: Farmer
Burial Place: Summerton, South Carolina
Burial Date: 07 Feb 1940
GS Film number: 1943876 , Digital Folder Number: 4179178 , Image Number: 1479 , Reference ID: fn 2269
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Buster Singleton
United States Census, 1940
Name: Buster Singleton
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1940
Event Place: Township 3 Georgetown, Georgetown, South Carolina, United States
Gender: Male
Age: 22
Marital Status: Married
Race (Original): Negro
Race: Negro
Relationship to Head of Household (Original): Son-In-Law
Relationship to Head of Household: Son-in-law
Birthplace: South Carolina
Birth Year (Estimated): 1918
Last Place of Residence: Same House
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
James Frasier Head F 69 South Carolina
Buster Singleton Son-in-law M 22 South Carolina
Maggie Singleton Daughter F 21 South Carolina
Betty Singleton Granddaughter F 5 South Carolina
Christina Singleton Granddaughter F 3 South Carolina
Heneretta Singleton Granddaughter F 1 South Carolina
District: 22-7 , Family Number: 769 , Sheet Number and Letter: 52B , Line Number: 64 , Affiliate Publication Number: T627 , Affiliate Film Number: 3810 , Digital Folder Number: 005461901 , Image Number: 00371
Maggie Singleton
United States Census, 1940
Name: Maggie Singleton
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1940
Event Place: Township 3 Georgetown, Georgetown, South Carolina, United States
Gender: Female
Age: 21
Marital Status: Married
Race (Original): Negro
Race: Negro
Relationship to Head of Household (Original): Daughter
Relationship to Head of Household: Daughter
Birthplace: South Carolina
Birth Year (Estimated): 1919
Last Place of Residence: Same House
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Lulu Singleton
United States Census, 1930
Name: Lulu Singleton
Event Type: Census
Event Year: 1930
Event Place: Statesburg, Sumter, South Carolina, United States
Gender: Female
Age: 2
Marital Status: Single
Race: Negro
Race (Original): Negro
Relationship to Head of Household: Daughter
Relationship to Head of Household (Original): Daughter
Birth Year (Estimated): 1928
Birthplace: South Carolina
Father's Birthplace: South Carolina
Mother's Birthplace: South Carolina
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Nelson Singleton Head M 39 South Carolina
Rosa Singleton Wife F 38 South Carolina
Janie Singleton Daughter F 14 South Carolina
Minnie Singleton Daughter F 10 South Carolina
Mamie Singleton Daughter F 8 South Carolina
Isarel Singleton Son M 7 South Carolina
Lawson Singleton Son M 5 South Carolina
Lulu Singleton Daughter F 2 South Carolina
District: 0024 , Sheet Number and Letter: 3A , Household ID: 51 , Line Number: 49 , Affiliate Name: The U.S. National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) , Affiliate Publication Number: T626 , Affiliate Film Number: 2214 , GS Film number: 2341948 , Digital Folder Number: 004547343 , Image Number: 00115
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loudcrow is doing great work here.
I figure this is a good place to stash this link to article "High Cheekbones and Straight Black Hair?
100 Amazing Facts About the Negro: Why most black people aren’t “part Indian,” despite family lore." by Henry Louis Gates Jr. http://www.theroot.com/articles/history/2014/04/why_most_black_people_aren_t_part_indian.html (http://www.theroot.com/articles/history/2014/04/why_most_black_people_aren_t_part_indian.html)
Again, here are the statistics: Whereas virtually all African Americans have a considerable amount of European ancestry in their genomes, only 19 percent have at least 1 percent Native American ancestry, and only 5 percent of African American people carry more than 2 percent Native American ancestry. How do these percentages translate into ancestry? Well, if you have 5 percent Native American ancestry in your admixture result, that means you had one Native American ancestor four to five generations back (120 to 150 years ago). If you have 2 percent Native American ancestry, you had one such ancestor on your family tree five to nine generations back (150 to 270 years ago). One percent of Native American ancestry means that this ancestor entered your bloodline six to 10 generations back (180 to 300 years ago).
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loudcrow is doing great work here.
I figure this is a good place to stash this link to article "High Cheekbones and Straight Black Hair?
100 Amazing Facts About the Negro: Why most black people aren’t “part Indian,” despite family lore." by Henry Louis Gates Jr. http://www.theroot.com/articles/history/2014/04/why_most_black_people_aren_t_part_indian.html (http://www.theroot.com/articles/history/2014/04/why_most_black_people_aren_t_part_indian.html)
Again, here are the statistics: Whereas virtually all African Americans have a considerable amount of European ancestry in their genomes, only 19 percent have at least 1 percent Native American ancestry, and only 5 percent of African American people carry more than 2 percent Native American ancestry. How do these percentages translate into ancestry? Well, if you have 5 percent Native American ancestry in your admixture result, that means you had one Native American ancestor four to five generations back (120 to 150 years ago). If you have 2 percent Native American ancestry, you had one such ancestor on your family tree five to nine generations back (150 to 270 years ago). One percent of Native American ancestry means that this ancestor entered your bloodline six to 10 generations back (180 to 300 years ago).
Video if you don't want to read:
http://youtu.be/wWzsSg4TUMw
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seems like someone likes going through archives of 300 year old documents and pulling the name of some small obscure tribe and ressurecting it as an existing people
That is indeed what a lot of these groups are doing.
The Gates video is very good. Good work, everyone.
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In the 1910 U.S. Census, both Adam and Rachel Singleton are listed as being Mulatto. Their daughter, Luella, is also listed as Mulatto.
Name: Kater J Vann
Gender: Male
Wife: Lulu Singleton
Child: Lueva Ruth Vann
Other information in the record of Lueva Ruth Vann
from North Carolina, Birth Index
Name: Lueva Ruth Vann
Event Type: Birth
Event Date: 03 Mar 1928
Event Place: New Hanover, North Carolina
Gender: Female
Father's Name: Kater J Vann
Mother's Name: Lulu Singleton
Page: 128
Source Reference: 25
I'm still researching this line.
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Naketer Vann
United States Census, 1910
Name: Naketer Vann
Event Type: Census
Event Year: 1910
Event Place: Topsail, Pender, North Carolina, United States
Gender: Male
Age: 11
Marital Status: Single
Race: Black
Race (Original): Black
Relationship to Head of Household: Son
Relationship to Head of Household (Original): Son
Birth Year (Estimated): 1899
Birthplace: North Carolina
Father's Birthplace: North Carolina
Mother's Birthplace: North Carolina
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Washington Vann Head M 58 North Carolina
Mary Vann Wife F 33 North Carolina
Arhie Vann Daughter F 15 North Carolina
Lillie Vann Daughter F 13 North Carolina
Naketer Vann Son M 11 North Carolina
Isabella Vann Daughter F 10 North Carolina
Clara Vann Daughter F 7 North Carolina
Mazura Vann Daughter F 4 North Carolina
Robert Vann Son M 3 North Carolina
Mary L Vann Daughter F 0 North Carolina
Clara Ennett Mother-in-law F 74 North Carolina
District: 77 , Sheet Number and Letter: 19A , Household ID: 358 , Affiliate Name: The U.S. National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) , Affiliate Publication Number: M1283 , GS Film number: 1375139 , Digital Folder Number: 004449914 , Image Number: 00188
Parents are listed as Black.
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Thank you for accomplishing what I could never do in the 20 years or so I've been researching this .now I can put to rest the ridiculous idea that my family was descended from native peoples...thank you. But I see u didn't add that one census record where my grandparents Adam and Rachel were listed as mulatto. U left that one out tho..
I can finally put all this stuff to rest..I never did really go into detail as to what exactly the nature of those traumas were tho...if you don't mind I'd like to print up this tree and then close out my profile here
Thank you for your time
And I never not once said
"I'm not happy being black"
I'd rather be anything but that"
Maybe my grandmother calling herself Santee when I was a boy was a manifestation of her own ignorance and self hatred?? I'm willing to believe that as well...and as for me clinnging to things ...you're kinda falling short ..I wasn't made aware ofy trauma until 2008. But have been drumming and singing since I was 19.
I think some of you have good intent but others ? Just speak out the sides of their necks
I'm happy just the way I was made an am comfortable in my own skin and can walk away from healing the cycles in my own family without having to believe in what was left ..as far as traditions and ways go
All I gotta do is decide not to and go live my life ..
I didn't have to care at all
But I did.
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Then my grandmother was simply a drunk and a liar
I can give this Sundance skirt and wiyaka away and everything else I've accumulated over the past couple of weeks to go up on the hill...in may
Scottish and welsh you say ??
Interesting ". Very interesting indeed "
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Adam Singleton
United States Census, 1910
Name: Adam Singleton
Event Type: Census
Event Year: 1910
Event Place: Privateer, Sumter, South Carolina, United States
Gender: Male
Age: 60
Marital Status: Married
Race: Mulatto
Race (Original): Mulatto
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Relationship to Head of Household (Original): Head
Birth Year (Estimated): 1850
Birthplace: South Carolina
Father's Birthplace: South Carolina
Mother's Birthplace: South Carolina
Rachel Singleton
United States Census, 1910
Name: Rachel Singleton
Event Type: Census
Event Year: 1910
Event Place: Privateer, Sumter, South Carolina, United States
Gender: Female
Age: 45
Marital Status: Married
Race: Mulatto
Race (Original): Mulatto
Relationship to Head of Household: Wife
Relationship to Head of Household (Original): Wife
Birth Year (Estimated): 1865
Birthplace: South Carolina
Father's Birthplace: South Carolina
Mother's Birthplace: South Carolina
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Adam Singleton Head M 60 South Carolina
Rachel Singleton Wife F 45 South Carolina
Willis Singleton Son M 8 South Carolina
Sammie L Singleton Son M 6 South Carolina
Adam Singleton Son M 18 South Carolina
Carrie Singleton Daughter F 16 South Carolina
Luella Singleton Daughter F 12 South Carolina
Hattie Singleton Daughter F 8 South Carolina
District: 108 , Sheet Number and Letter: 6B , Household ID: 106 , Affiliate Name: The U.S. National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) , Affiliate Publication Number: M1283 , GS Film number: 1375478 , Digital Folder Number: 004449783 , Image Number: 00565
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These are the instructions given to the 1910 Census takers regarding race:
1910 Census:
108. Column 6. Color or race.?Write “W” for white; “B” for black; “Mu” for mulatto; “Ch” for Chinese; “Jp” for Japanese; “In” for Indian. For all persons not falling within one of these classes, write “Ot” (for other), and write on the left-hand margin of the schedule the race of the person so indicated.
109. For census purposes, the term “black” (B) includes all persons who are evidently full-blooded negroes, while the term “mulatto” (Mu) includes all other persons having some proportion or perceptible trace of negro blood.
We cannot totally discount their being any Native ancestry. I would have to go much farther back in the family tree in order to say "yes" or "no" definitively.
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according to my maternal grandmother lueva ruth Vann originally there had been Nineteen children between Adam and Rachel and that eight of them had died because of an epidemic that swept the southeastern united states.. some were lost to "fever" and others were stillborn as to the true nature of their deaths im uncertain ..i9 do know that "Luella" had made a vow to Rachel....that she would take care of Rachel in her old age and adam and Rachel actually followed Luella from SC to NC where unfortunately they both outlived their daughter Luella who died at about the age of 35......Im willing to admit the possibility that it was hearsay that we were at al;l related to any native peoples...im willing to believe it...because I know for a fact that she used to drink some really heavy liquor....there is something tho that makes me a bit uncomfortable and its not so much digging up my tree (that was a good thing thnks Loudcrow") its the use of the terms.... Black And white" and these generic made up terms for people who have any kind of racial mixture.....ive talked about whats going on here to a friend who happens to be a Dakota elder and she continues to proudly respond to me on facebook in the "D" question is "can any of us really ever know"? so many say "aint never was no Dakotas in the east" and some say "Yeah we were there " both sides having and making very valid points......like the mention of winter counts" but I believe that individual may have been talking about L/T Not D/N im not saying im a specialist in this field but I have been picking up a lot....
as far as my own personal life goes.....I simply spoke to tribal offices one day in porcupine and had long conversations with spiritual leaders out that way and even took the time out to sit down and to write them letters ...all agreed that some sacred rites would help me to heal and mend cycles in my family....."itll help you" they said
"tunkashina hears and answers all prayer " I don't wanna be no medicine man " I just wanna heal and pls don't write me back anything that's degrading because I said it pls
thanks
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when I made mention that6 I had called tribal offices out in porcupine... it wasn't for the purpose of genealogical research .
it was with the question "what does a person do in the case of this that and a third?" it had to do with me seeking spiritual help and guidance......for the things that have been plaguing me most of my life .....I was looking for the ceremony or ceremonies " that might help me out ....based on what my grandmother told me and feeling there might be a connection between this tribe my grandmother mentioned and the ones just across the river ,,,,,that we were somehow some watered down racially mixed version of the peoples out west......I can see how ceremony could be killed off in the east.....the religion and way is a bottle of Heineken and a fat bag o smoke.....but me ??? I wanted better than that....so an elder from a porcupine suggested I start reading up on hehaka Sapa....and I did.....and I was shocked and amazed by what I had learned....being from an eastern faith formerly.....it fell short for me ....I realized that the best model for a man was in black elk and realized there was no need for me to follow some faith from over seas ,,,,when I had an example to follow right here in my own back yard ...the more I read the more I began to realize that these men were "real men" what we call back home in nyc " A Mans MAn".....I figure it was also a way for me to figure out how to "walk the way I talk " and be able to back it up and keeping it real.......I also found that all those things that those elders were granted were actually designed to help "reset" peoples minds and hearts for people whos cases are identical to mine....... Trauma alters brain wave patterns and abnormalizes them....hence that disconnected feeling whenever I go somewhere in nature and feeling like im floating all over and not feeling grounded and connected to ina maka ...I began to believe strongly that those sacred rites that black elk was talking about would reconnect me to the those energies in the earth.......no magic wand ...no magic potion....nothing spooky or mysterious .....just plain old "good orderly direction" but so far what im getting here is if my blood quantum aint enough or if I aint got no blood at all im basically screwed and unable to put into effect what was left by the beloved elder....how will I ever know if I don't get a chance to find out......????????
what if its true??? and there is a thing called OHM 'S in the earth and the very electricity in our own bodies plays a part in that wellness and feeling connected again ???? according to a reliable source its that very same "deeply embedded genetic depression" that's keeping us from getting along and seeing eye to eye to begin with.......
I don't wanna understand any of it in theory .... I wanna live it ....blood or no..... u just might be that life line or that oxygen tank I need to save my own soul ...if you don't mind me saying so candidly......im about winning and overcoming that beast in me that's robbed me of all the good in my life.........yeah everybody gotta sob story and all that...
but you aint grow up in the Bronx in the seventies eighties and nineties.......it was pure hell and a lot of us didn't make it out..... any soul will fight and seek and try over and over again until its free from all the fetters and whatever chains it....
I only have the one life and its given to me on loan by the creator and one day its gonna be called back and its my responsibility to take that gift back in the best condition possible.........
what did you do when your brother asked for help????
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Hello earth7 I wanted to extend thankls and gratitude to you for locating my families history...im not at all dissatisfied with the results.......I guess if its not too much trouble to ask ,,, I had a question about the morgan davis in your post My ancestor according to you that came from wales ? or Scotland ? or both ??? can I begin a search from there and start working my way backwards to Europe ??? im even more curious now and even went as far as to look up books on heraldry to try to locate the davis family somewhere in history to see if there was some kind of coat of arms or family crest that could help guid my search here ...... Where would I fiind or begin to jresearch records on morgan davis ??
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@ antiunilateral43, I thought you had said that you had grown up in South Carolina....??? But here you just wrote "yeah everybody gotta sob story and all that...but you aint grow up in the Bronx in the seventies eighties and nineties.......it was pure hell and a lot of us didn't make it out" I could be wrong but you've been writing about South Carolina and I had the impression that you were born and raised by your Grandmother in your families home state of South Carolina??? Just wondering?
Lim lemtsh,
Diana
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I have to tell you that Morgan Davis owned the plantation who was from Wales and his name would be carried by the slaves he owned,
Whether or not you have his blood is hard to say but the names to do go back to that planatation.
You can just type in the name into ancestry.com and find answers today,
As far as your journey you called Pine Ridge Right! and they told you about their lives right, When life is hard
one must look inside themselves not to another culture, All our ceremonies do is help a person find that center,
but finding oneselves is about facing that inner pain and dealing with it.
I will tell what i tell everyone, its about you and you dont need anyone or anything to find that
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the peoples out west......I can see ....I realized that the best model for a man was in black elk and realized there was no need for me to follow some faith from over seas ,,,,when I had an example to follow right here in my own back yard ...the more I read the more I began to realize that these men were "real men" what we call back home in nyc " A Mans MAn".....
...
...I began to believe strongly that those sacred rites that black elk was talking about would reconnect me to the those energies in the earth.......
... Which Black Elk are you referring to? Are you talking about what people from the Black Elks' community have to say? Or are you referring what you read in the book Black Elk Speaks?
If it's the latter... that book was written by a white man. It's not representative of the actual traditions. It is not respected.
I only have the one life and its given to me on loan by the creator
I can't speak for the L/D/N peoples. But in terms of all your ancestors, not everyone believed that. That's fine if that's your personal belief, but not all the ancestors believed that and not all the living cultures believe that way now.
I had a question about the morgan davis in your post My ancestor according to you that came from wales ? or Scotland ? or both ??? can I begin a search from there and start working my way backwards to Europe ??? im even more curious now and even went as far as to look up books on heraldry to try to locate the davis family somewhere in history to see if there was some kind of coat of arms or family crest that could help guid my search here ......
To find a family crest or heraldry you first have to find which branch of the family you're from, and whether any of them were granted coats of arms. Not all families have them, and the Welsh aren't generally as into family symbolism as the Scots and Irish are. Those internet sites that claim to have a coat of arms for every name are not accurate; they are set up for selling merchandise. So they will take the individual heraldry for someone you may not even be related to and try and sell it to you. You have to know the exact ancestors, where they lived and when.
The name Davis is Welsh in origin. I also have Davis ancestors. But the Celtic Nations that are now considered part of the "United Kindom (UK)" are all rather small and close together. People went back and forth all the time between what is now considered Wales, England, Scotland, Ireland, and all the smaller islands scattered around those countries. So an ancestor may be listed on an American immigration form as any of those nationalities, while if you can go back farther you will find they only lived there for a little while before coming to America. There are a lot of Welsh and Irish people who are inaccurately recorded as English for that reason - they went to England looking for work, then eventually got on a boat to America.
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Lim limtsch my family migrated from the south to NYC in the mid to late forties.
And that's where I came along ..again I am the result of an interracial coupling ...and not once upon entering this forum did I ever once claim to be an Indian...or said that I even wanted to be (responding to another post here) I've only ever expressed a desire to learn traditions and ways .. You said thank you in a language I'm familiar with. I used to live out at flathead in arlee. I was actually there on and off for a year
It was a good life when I lived out near polson and flathead lake. Loved it there. Stars so clear at night you could almost touch them. There was so many
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Lol. So a group of Germans do it and they're cool"
But if I do it I'm a wannabe ..? Just did some more reading here ...so pls pardon my line of questioning here..
A man travels to Germany and sees the age resurrected in Europe and the natives are a "study" and what this man Sees provokes thought .....but my mind and heart are moved by what I've learned and I'm condemned by the same people that I'm learning from. Yes I'm a mixture of european. African and quite possibly native (still a mystery) and I'm still getting that same "vibe" that nobody really wants anything to do with African Americans period ...but a full blooded Masai warrior from Kenya can Sundance in south Dakota but an African american will catch hell for trying..pay me no mind here. But I'm not afraid to talk about what may be the underlying issue here ....anybody coming out of the southeast gets blasted for loving native culture and spirituality by people way on the other side of the country ..who don't really know how the other half is living ..my sons mother left flathead to visit my grandparents in new York one time and never went back
Rites of passage will save the young is all I have to say..
In africa they scratch and initiate ...they are made to feel Luke young men and women ..and given a sense of self ..u can sit and waste time talking about whatever but if there's someone really sincere that comes along with love for what's been learned ? Why not let me learn em. ? What are u so afraid of ?? What do u have to lose ? A lot of its dying and there are real people. True people. Like me who would live fight and die to preserve and protect it. Don't believe me??
Let's take the test and try me if you think I'm lying
Its really all I gotta say right now
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I know my posts been reported but I was "set afire" by some more of what I read on here a little while ago..I can do my best to not allow emotion to be my better in this discussion.
Sincere apologies to the group and the admin.
I was thinking over a few theories I had heard about how census was taken and why..interesting points to observe
#1 at certain points in census history a person was either blaxk or white in most cases..and then later on you see mullatto. ...which brings us to the one drop theory stating that anyone who had a drop. Would be considered black or African american to be more proper ... Think about the few natives that did exist with one black parent and one native parent ....why did most of them always claim black? U know it and I know it too...
Imagine : so many hundreds and thousands and maybe more were relocated to some pretty distant places far away from the southeast. The Cherokee I'm sure weren't the only ones...census taker rolls around and asks me my race ..and it just so happens that said census taker is a united states soldier ....(bare with me here please). Which half do I claim or tell him about ?? If I say I'm native ..chances are I'll be shipped out to oklahoma somewhere and removed from my own home .....if I tell census taker that I'm black or negro it creates a whole new set of problems ...." What do I do what do I say?? Do I tell the government that the population of natives has increased because of intermixing ?? And if our numbers are increased because of it ..will we be perceived as threat by the united states ?? What will the repercussions be should I choose one or the other ?? I don't think there's any one that can rule out the possibility that this may have been the case for most .....all I'm asking for is that you be willing to consider the possibilities and not be so quick to say " this person couldnt have possibly been native because the census clearly states they were mullatto or negro.. This is not my trying to find a way into anything. Its actually quite the opposite ...as I've come to want to know the truth myself ...it begs the question : " is that even remotely possible at all"?
As far as an " Indian princess ". In my family personally. There has never been such a person and my grandmother never made that statement about us being descended from anything like royalty ..she just said that her grandmother was an impoverished dirt poor woman
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...and not once upon entering this forum did I ever once claim to be an Indian...or said that I even wanted to be (responding to another post here) I've only ever expressed a desire to learn traditions and ways ..
The consensus on this forum, and among our Elders, is that a tribe's ways are only meant for the members of that tribe.
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Lol. So a group of Germans do it and they're cool"
But if I do it I'm a wannabe ..? Just did some more reading here ...so pls pardon my line of questioning here..
A man travels to Germany and sees the age resurrected in Europe and the natives are a "study" and what this man Sees provokes thought .....but my mind and heart are moved by what I've learned and I'm condemned by the same people that I'm learning from.
I actually find the german obsession with indians to be extremely disturbing. What they are doing isn't remotely respectful. It's objectification and that is harmful and hurtful.
Yes I'm a mixture of european. African and quite possibly native (still a mystery) and I'm still getting that same "vibe" that nobody really wants anything to do with African Americans period ...but a full blooded Masai warrior from Kenya can Sundance in south Dakota but an African american will catch hell for trying..pay me no mind here. But I'm not afraid to talk about what may be the underlying issue here ....anybody coming out of the southeast gets blasted for loving native culture and spirituality by people way on the other side of the country ..who don't really know how the other half is living ..my sons mother left flathead to visit my grandparents in new York one time and never went back
You're making generalizations and assumptions. I have a very dear friend who is Pequot and he's black. I love him. I've been invited to ceremony with him. One of his friends was very protective of me when I went to confront newagers who conduct 'lakota' sweats on their land. The difference here is that he doesn't try to be anything he's not. He's just a guy with Pequot and black ancestry and who knows what else.
Rites of passage will save the young is all I have to say..
In africa they scratch and initiate ...they are made to feel Luke young men and women ..and given a sense of self ..u can sit and waste time talking about whatever but if there's someone really sincere that comes along with love for what's been learned ? Why not let me learn em. ? What are u so afraid of ?? What do u have to lose ? A lot of its dying and there are real people. True people. Like me who would live fight and die to preserve and protect it. Don't believe me??
Let's take the test and try me if you think I'm lying
Its really all I gotta say right now
That Pequot guy? His son was a gang banger and was killed in a drive-by in CT. In front of his girlfriend and kid. Violence and crime is found in traditional families and traditional communities. It's horrible ugly part of society. Rites of passage are important but they won't save you from bad people with bad intentions. If that were the case I wouldn't have had to sit next to my friend, holding his hand while he cried for his kid.
earthw7 said
As far as your journey you called Pine Ridge Right! and they told you about their lives right, When life is hard
one must look inside themselves not to another culture, All our ceremonies do is help a person find that center,
but finding oneselves is about facing that inner pain and dealing with it.
I will tell what i tell everyone, its about you and you dont need anyone or anything to find that
She's right.
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I do remember you now. ::) About 5-6 years ago...??? You were the only black guy at the Arlee Powwow. You seemed odd and out of place, like you didn't belong there. And your dancing was atrocious. You had on some strange regalia made of turkey feathers, I asked a couple of people who you were and nobody seemed to know you, you just popped in. It was painfully obvious you were a pretendian and kind of pitiful. I also remember you were there by yourself...sad. Powwows are for friends and families.
Diana
Lim limtsch my family migrated from the south to NYC in the mid to late forties.
And that's where I came along ..again I am the result of an interracial coupling ...and not once upon entering this forum did I ever once claim to be an Indian...or said that I even wanted to be (responding to another post here) I've only ever expressed a desire to learn traditions and ways .. You said thank you in a language I'm familiar with. I used to live out at flathead in arlee. I was actually there on and off for a year
It was a good life when I lived out near polson and flathead lake. Loved it there. Stars so clear at night you could almost touch them. There was so many
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As a Native person i would say i object to German who want to learn my culture
and take it to Germany and teach other Germans because you can not teach a lifestyle
by witnesses it a couple time a year, you must be born into it. My culture is something that is living and it
is not property that can be sold its a way of life. That way of life is about healing
one self, By steal another's culture is not healing if you want to be come something that you are not
they will be people who dont accept you because it is not your culture. So you will be an outsider because it is not truth,
Being Native is about family and relationships and if you dont know your family your not Native.
If you really want to heal look into oneself face those inner hurts and pains.