Author Topic: Charles A. Laster  (Read 54460 times)

Offline Sachem Laster

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Re: Charles A. Laster
« Reply #30 on: July 23, 2015, 11:28:06 pm »
Diana

One question before I start, how did you trace my line back accurately father than I can? Do you know how many Henry Laster's there was, sometimes they even the children shared fist names? My whole family line tree has this problem, we used the same first names far to much. I had to go searching gravestones to separate one from another. I could never make an accurate family tree pass that point. So is this Jenny Laster from France my direct ancestor, I don't think so. I know I do have some German and Irish in me, but no history of French.

Quite correct, census data does list most of my family as white. Now I ask you, how much do you know about how censuses were conducted back then? A lot of Laster's not in my direct line were also listed as colored, most came from the same region of N.C. as us and were related.

Race was determined by the census taken, not the individual. Look up paper genocide as well which goes deeper into the subject and the efforts to erase native ancestry.

Also this is exactly why so many assimilated into white society and why so many people say they have a native ancestry, but no clue as to the tribe. Also why most tribes require a direct line to a known native ancestor, as census data is worthless for racial identification.

But this really gets to the heart of the matter facing many today concerning native heritage. How does one prove their ancestry and who is the judge?

I don't have an answer to that question, and I don't think any one answer can fit all cases. The BIA recently changed its rules for recognition because of complaints. A Virgina senator filled a bill claiming the process of recognition was unfair to many colonial era tribes. People are already complaining about the new rules even before they begin.

Of course once recognized each tribe sets their own requirements for membership, and you move to subjects like tribes recognizing other tribes, dis-enrollment, etc.

Offline earthw7

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Re: Charles A. Laster
« Reply #31 on: July 24, 2015, 12:29:36 am »
well everything seem a little strange to me my people have never changed we speak our language, and live our way of life, we still look Native, we know our histories and tell you were we lived in 1200 to 2000 years ago can you? A people are not a tribal nation unless they can keep their language, government, spirituality, land,and way of life, we still have our real names like i said i lived in McCracken County with the Mannings, Canters,. and a few others whom i still in contact with. Everyone just referred to us as the Indian when we lived in Paducah my sister went to school, oh and I am the judge because I am Native
In Spirit

Epiphany

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Re: Charles A. Laster
« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2015, 12:49:36 am »
"How does one prove their ancestry and who is the judge?"

These are questions that do actually have answers.

You can learn how to do genealogy research through reading books on the subject and through tutorials at web sites like Ancestry and Family Search. As Diana is demonstrating, it is a methodical process that steps back one generation at a time.

Yes, census and other records may not be accurate, so more records are collected to assist.

For your own ancestry, for yourself and your actual family, you need to have your genealogy researched, Diana is laying lots of groundwork for you here. If you don't trust her work, pay someone to do the work.

Then you will know. My guess is that you are white, raised white, culturally white. Even if you have distant NDN heritage, you say your people are long assimilated, so that is where you stand - assimilated. And that is okay. It is okay to be white, to be aware of injustices, and to want to help.

Starting your own "tribe" does not help. Read through various threads on this forum to learn about how damaging false "tribes" can be.

Instead, begin where you live, as yourself. Help at the food bank, pick something humble and useful that you can do.

You have posted that you have health challenges and that you could use a rest. I encourage you to rest. Rethink and regroup.

When you claim you are NDN and sachem of a tribe, you of course will be judged, we know false tribes are a huge problem.

Each NDN Nation has a right to judge, to decide who their people are. All of us have the right to research and judge before we decide who to listen to, who to ally with.

You can learn more of your ancestry, you can learn how to accurately weigh sources. You are the judge of your own beliefs. When you step on the public stage, we the audience then also judge for ourselves.

Epiphany

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Re: Charles A. Laster
« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2015, 01:32:43 am »
I wrote all that before reading earthw7's post, her post is more important, she speaks with authority and knowledge.


Offline Sachem Laster

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Re: Charles A. Laster
« Reply #34 on: July 24, 2015, 02:20:10 am »
Pretend Indian or Not

That is something each person here will have to answer for him or herself.

I have met a number of pretend Indians during my life, as have all of you. Let me see if we agree in our assessment of their personality types.

Ego needs big boost:
Claims descent from a famous Native Leader
These seem more common than they probably are as they are the attention getters and like the spotlight it gives them.

Trust me I’m (insert tribe)
Claims to be from a specific tribe, usually one well known, but lacks any proof and often does not know the history or traditions of the tribe they claim. Probably one of the most common types of pretends Indians. Needs recognition as part of a specific tribe for some personal reason most likely.

Trust me I’m Native
Claims multiple tribes to avoid have to learn anything about the history or cultures of any tribe.

We are a tribe of the (insert-recognized tribal nation)
Usually a group claims to be a branch of an established tribe. The Cherokee has a long list of such pretenders to their history.

Such and Such Tribe
Has a name that was never recorded in history and even the most knowledgeable expert never heard of. Their history if you call it that is about as accurate as their name, completely made up.

These are broad categories and I am sure you can think of more.

If I am a pretend Indian, I am not a very good one.

From a historic tribe, but one virtually unknown to most people. Worse one that has no land claim as they sold their land legally of their own free will. Also one that has no treaty history with the US and no claims against the government for wrongs, no famous leaders, no much of anything.

Heck, you almost have to be a historian to even know about them. Historians say we assimilated, well at least they got that mostly right.

We have an extensive history until 1740, and very little recorded after that. Little history, no treaties, not a snowballs chance in hell of ever getting formal recognition at the federal or state level.

If I am a pretend Indian, I am a poor one, or at least not your typical one, and made a really stupid choice for which tribe to claim.

Offline Diana

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Re: Charles A. Laster
« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2015, 02:33:36 am »
Diana

One question before I start, how did you trace my line back accurately father than I can? Do you know how many Henry Laster's there was, sometimes they even the children shared fist names? My whole family line tree has this problem, we used the same first names far to much. I had to go searching gravestones to separate one from another. I could never make an accurate family tree pass that point. So is this Jenny Laster from France my direct ancestor, I don't think so. I know I do have some German and Irish in me, but no history of French.

Quite correct, census data does list most of my family as white. Now I ask you, how much do you know about how censuses were conducted back then? A lot of Laster's not in my direct line were also listed as colored, most came from the same region of N.C. as us and were related.

Race was determined by the census taken, not the individual. Look up paper genocide as well which goes deeper into the subject and the efforts to erase native ancestry.

Also this is exactly why so many assimilated into white society and why so many people say they have a native ancestry, but no clue as to the tribe. Also why most tribes require a direct line to a known native ancestor, as census data is worthless for racial identification.

But this really gets to the heart of the matter facing many today concerning native heritage. How does one prove their ancestry and who is the judge?

I don't have an answer to that question, and I don't think any one answer can fit all cases. The BIA recently changed its rules for recognition because of complaints. A Virgina senator filled a bill claiming the process of recognition was unfair to many colonial era tribes. People are already complaining about the new rules even before they begin.

Of course once recognized each tribe sets their own requirements for membership, and you move to subjects like tribes recognizing other tribes, dis-enrollment, etc.

Heavy sigh, ok you're not black nor do you have any Indian blood on your father's side of the family. I did see some Lasters that were black in the census. They were from all over such as Tennessee, Alabama, Virginia and one was even from Kentucky! But that doesn't mean you were related or part black. As for your great grandfather Henry Laster, there was only one Henry Laster that was born and raised in Paducah Kentucky at that time. I even found his draft card for WWI. Shame on you for trying to cast suspicion on your great grandfather's good name. Why am I not surprised, you people who try to play Indian have proven time and time again that you all in need of some serious psychiatric help. Be happy with who you are even if you're a janitor. 

Offline Sachem Laster

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Re: Charles A. Laster
« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2015, 02:53:25 am »
Earthw7

Sadly Carolina Algonquin is a dead language. Efforts are being made to revive it, but that’s not the same.

Look Native? I look native but my brother does not. I have also seen blond-haired blue eyed card carrying Indians. My grandmother lived in an Italian neighborhood to blend in and some of them looked more native than her. I don’t think what someone looks like is the best way to determine race.

Yes we know where we lived 2000 years ago; we did not forget all of our history and culture. At what point of having your cultured destroyed do you cease to be Indian? When all of your stories, or just half of them are gone? When the last traditional chief dies or the Clan Mothers no longer meet, when does the government end? When does a tribe die?

I live in Mayfield now, but I know some Mannings and Canters, as you should know they are large families in this area, and yes everyone around here just referees to us as Indian as well. And while I don’t like to judge, I have judged others as pretend Indians, because I am a Native.

Epiphany

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Re: Charles A. Laster
« Reply #37 on: July 24, 2015, 03:19:12 am »
I encourage you to stop claiming that your family is a Native American tribe.

If you want to explore your ancestry,  do that through accurate genealogy. You can have a heritage club. You can have family reunions.

 

Autumn

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Re: Charles A. Laster
« Reply #38 on: July 24, 2015, 11:42:25 am »
Mr. Laster, if you are chief of a tribe, where is the rest of your tribe?

Quote
A tribe is a distinct people, dependent on their land for their livelihood, who are largely self-sufficient, and not integrated into the national society.
(Bolding Mine)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribe

Offline Sachem Laster

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Re: Charles A. Laster
« Reply #39 on: July 24, 2015, 02:41:41 pm »
Good, now we are getting somewhere, Piff, Autumn

You both touch on the same thing, to determine if someone is a pretend Indian, you have to define what a tribe is, and there is no single definition, others have also touched briefly on it, and I have struggled with it myself. Every definition has its problems and does not fit all cases.

Some have said it is tied to the land they draw their livelihood from and are self sufficient , but not all recognized tribes have land of their own. Actually that definition matches that for a State under international law. A State is a nation but not all nations are States. A State has control over its land and its sovereign status as a State depends on the land.

Some have said that a tribe is not a family, yet this was one of the oldest definitions of a tribe as being an extended family, ever hear of clans?

So because different people have different definitions for tribes, each person has their own definition of a pretend Indian.

Since I was a kid in school every record states I am American Indian and I have always identified as such, despite the pain it has caused.

My grandmother was ashamed of her native heritage and tried to hide it, and disowned my father when he married another Indian. I grew up being refereed to as that Pagan or Heathen child by her and despised for looking too Indian, while my brother and other family who looked White was treated far differently. Had I denounced my heritage I would have been welcomed with open arms and included in her will.

But that is part of life, no escaping it. I have always been too Red for the White Man and too White for the Red Man. Unwanted by either and despised by both.

No surprise I guess that when I accidentally meet tribes from outside North America that we became friends. It was good for once in my life for other tribes treat me as an indigenous brother without questions. I am honored to have friends like them, I owe them much, and they have become my brothers and sisters over time.

While that would be nice to have this happen in my homeland, it will never be, but it has ceased to bother me like it did in my youth. I understand at least in part why. Other tribes around the world don't have frauds ripping off their culture for profit, or a thousand fake tribes seeking formal recognition and a piece of the federal handouts that go with it. Things are different here.

A person is shaped by the events in their life and how they respond to it. None of you know me personally, so I can't expect you to understand what my life has been like, but I have always claimed my heritage and will always do so whatever the cost.

Sadly I do not feel the bond with other North American tribes that I should, and do have with my Asian tribal brothers and sisters. I hope to one day build a relationship with some of my fellow Algonquins. But for now my loyalty is to those tribes I am proud to call my brothers and sisters, the Zo, Kachin and others.

So while this has been fun, this discussion will not change anything or anyone's opinion, and I really should not have spent this much time on it.

I came to this forum for a specific reason, and must attend to those matters for the sake of the tribes I am proud to call my friends.

If time allows, I will return to this thread at some latter date.

Offline earthw7

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Re: Charles A. Laster
« Reply #40 on: July 24, 2015, 04:21:09 pm »
Let start with the word--Algonquins. this is a language dialect  not a nation.
Many tribes do have a clan system but like mine we do not, each nation has its own
way of identify its self. So it goes back to Land, Government system, language, Culture, and way of life.
This is why so many have problem with the Federally recognized process because they do not have the
following. Just because 200 hundred years ago a tribe existed don't mean they exist today.
We have people who are descendant of such tribes but that don't make them Native.
There is a culture that exist that does not compare to the american culture, a way of life.
Today we have crazy people who make claims then mix up everything so now we have Cherokee claiming they use Sweat Lodge which the don't, we have pretend tribes claiming the White Buffalo Calf when it is only Lakota/Dakota. All of this hurts the tribes that exist today as we fight to live you people fight to kill us


In Spirit

Offline earthw7

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Re: Charles A. Laster
« Reply #41 on: July 24, 2015, 04:23:38 pm »
as you see this laster seem to have the White is right attitude for people like this they will not
listen,
In Spirit

Offline AClockworkWhite

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Re: Charles A. Laster
« Reply #42 on: July 24, 2015, 04:52:33 pm »
Let start with the word--Algonquins. this is a language dialect  not a nation.
Many tribes do have a clan system but like mine we do not, each nation has its own
way of identify its self. So it goes back to Land, Government system, language, Culture, and way of life.
This is why so many have problem with the Federally recognized process because they do not have the
following. Just because 200 hundred years ago a tribe existed don't mean they exist today.
We have people who are descendant of such tribes but that don't make them Native.
There is a culture that exist that does not compare to the american culture, a way of life.
Today we have crazy people who make claims then mix up everything so now we have Cherokee claiming they use Sweat Lodge which the don't, we have pretend tribes claiming the White Buffalo Calf when it is only Lakota/Dakota. All of this hurts the tribes that exist today as we fight to live you people fight to kill us
THIS! OMG this is truth, for many of us whose tribes didn't use the clan system, and for the many tribes trying for recognition these days. And!! for all the cross-cultural claims by so many tribes. Even legit tribes claiming dances and ceremonies and claiming to be the tribe of origin. 
So much truth in this comment, earthw7....
I came here for the popcorn and stayed for the slaying of pretenders.

Offline Smart Mule

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Re: Charles A. Laster
« Reply #43 on: July 24, 2015, 11:03:58 pm »
I'm not supporting Laster though I do need to clarify that there are absolutely Algonquin Nations. They are in Canada. Their name for themselves is Omàmiwininiwak.

They are -

Kitigan Zibi (we have a member here who lives there.)
Timiskaming First Nation
Nation Anishinabe du Lac Simon
Abitibiwinni First Nation
Eagle Village First Nation
Long Point First Nation
Algonquins of Barrière Lake
Anicinape Community of Kitcisakik
Wolf Lake First Nation
Matachewan First Nation
Temagami First Nation
Wahgoshig First Nation
Algonquins of Pikwàkanagàn First Nation

It's really not right to disappear about 12,000 people from 13 different reserves.

Offline earthw7

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Re: Charles A. Laster
« Reply #44 on: July 25, 2015, 12:26:03 pm »
agree but these nations have their own names
but they are not one group, so if a person claims this nation
then which part of the nation
In Spirit