Author Topic: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"  (Read 866266 times)

Offline Spandex~Atom

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Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
« Reply #105 on: November 27, 2010, 02:30:45 pm »
Kiesha Crowther claims:
"There is a place called Dendera, that was not built only by human hands."

Here is Dendera:



Yes, Dendera exists, this is a fact, but not exactly breaking news! It wouldn't be a great surprise to know that it wasn't built only by human hands, and that animals were used to help pull stones etc. But she seems to me to be implying is that there is some involvement from non human intelligence. What/who this is she doesn't say, which isn't a surprise. Has she ever elaborated on this or are her 'sources' of information just throwing her crumbs, lol.


Kiesha Crowther claims:  
Modern lightbulbs are found there, that still work today, that are over 17,000 years old.

Here is what she is referring to:


Forgive me for being picky, but this is NOT a modern lightbulb that still works after 17,000 years. This is a stone relief that is interpreted by some "experts" as a lamp. Instead of giving the literal truth, she gives the impression to her audience that there are actual lightbulbs that still work after thousands of years. If there are any actual lightbulbs at the site, there is one month for them to be discovered!

Where does the 17,000 year figure come form again?
"the earliest extant building in the compound today is the Mammisi raised by Nectanebo II – last of the native pharaohs (360-343 BC)." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendera_Temple_complex
Again, what she says is erroneous elaboration on a topic which is old news. Giving the impression it's some truth that is coming out in 2010 is untrue. These aren't the sayings of a 'wisdom-keeper' imo.

-Spandex


edited addition 16 dec 2010:
Important, please read:
I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click quote link to read in full)


« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 05:40:10 pm by Spandex~Atom »

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
« Reply #106 on: November 27, 2010, 02:48:06 pm »
Prophetic sayings of Keisha Crowther that follow are transcripted  parts of the video series - 2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther

Link to video 1 of 10:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK5OOfEmut4


2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther 2/10 :
(Starting at 5:12  minutes/seconds into video)  
"....I carry the wisdom for Nine Pipes. He was a wisdom keeper that lived many hundreds of year- a couple hundred years ago. I am of the lineage of Spotted Owl. (pause) I am Chikala Uchi. (pause) I am Little Grandmother. (pause) I am great grand daughter of Chikala Lota and Chikala Jensen. (pause) I am daughter of Tinjan Chala and Father Mato....

This is the closest she's come that I know of to saying who her supposed relatives are. Still pretty vague and unclear, throwing out lots of names that sound impressive to people who aren't familiar.

Ninepipes (generally spelled as one word, not two) was a name or part of the names used by several Salish leaders. This was about 100-120 years ago, not "a couple hundred." They were some of the smaller chiefs, not known for being medicine people as far as I know, though likely respected as wise counselors.

If she claims Spotted Owl's lineage, that can be checked. He was from Pine Ridge. There's nothing on the other names I could find online, but saying who her great grandparents supposedly were should help.

I still find it very strange she hides who her alleged relatives are almost all the time.

---------------
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mikestevens/2010-p/p299.htm
(?) Spotted Owl1,2,3,4  (M)
(1868 - ), #40948
Pop-up Pedigree
     Also known as (?) Hinhan Gleska.1,2,3,4 The nationality of (?) Spotted Owl was Oglala Lakota Sioux.1,2,3,4 (?) Spotted Owl was born in 1868.1,3,2,4 He was the son of (?) Shell Boy and (?) Hopper Horse.1,2 He was listed as "daughter" and residing in the home of (?) Shell Boy on the U.S. Indian Census Rolls taken on July 1, 1892 at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, White Clay District, Shannon Co., South Dakota ., USA.1 He married Mary Hawk Woman after July 1, 1892.2,3,4 (?) was listed as the "Head of the Household" on the US Indian Census Rolls at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, White Clay District, Shannon Co., South Dakota, USA, on July 1, 1894.2 (?) was listed as the "Head of the Household" on the US Indian Census Rolls at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, Wounded Knee District, Shannon Co., South Dakota, USA, on June 25, 1895.3 (?) was listed as the "Head of the Household" on the US Indian Census Rolls at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, Wounded Knee District, Shannon Co., South Dakota, USA, on June 30, 1896.4

Children of (?) Spotted Owl and Mary Hawk Woman
(?) Bloody Mouth b. Apr, 18932,4
(?) Sits In Sight b. Mar, 18964
Citations
[S556] 1892.
[S269] 1894.
[S561] June 30th 1895.
[S158] June 30th, 1896.

Offline Spandex~Atom

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Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
« Reply #107 on: November 27, 2010, 02:49:20 pm »
Thanks, Crescent,  for giving details about where Kiesha appropriated her information about the Ark of the Covenant.

Here is a video on youtube about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOqLpT6HKzY&playnext=1&list=PL37B5FB8EE6746B93&index=29

instead of paying to hear this from her 'talks', people can listen for free on youtube!

-
Spandex

Offline Spandex~Atom

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Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
« Reply #108 on: November 27, 2010, 08:13:26 pm »
Hi educatedindian,

Thank you for the proper spelling for Ninepipes. I've edited the post so that it is now correct.
I apologise if the other names are incorrect, I just spelled tham like they sounded to me.

I don't know why someone would be so cagey about their history. Someone who is proud of their heritage would be alot more open, especially if they are someone who their tribe has been waiting for for 400 years, and now has the job of speaking for a prophesied new tribe. Jesus for example has the female and male lineage on record going right back to Adam and Eve (at least it's there, wether we believe it or not). 

-Spandex

Offline Ingeborg

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Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
« Reply #109 on: November 28, 2010, 12:07:08 am »
Quote from: Spandex~Atom
I am of the lineage of Spotted Owl. (pause) I am Chikala Uchi. (pause) I am Little Grandmother. (pause) I am great grand daughter of Chikala Lota and Chikala Jensen. (pause) I am daughter of Tinjan Chala and Father Mato

One of our Lakota friends here should have a look at the names, as Crowther means to use Lakota words.

However, she doesn't know her behind from a hole in the ground...

As one example: 'little' is ciqala, and 'grandmother' is unci. But 'Little Grandmother' will not translate in the way Crowther says - if I'm not mistaken, it's Unciciqala correctly.

Same then with the two other names, albeit it is somewhat strange her ancestors were all little somethings. If you understood this correctly, the second word in the second name could be 'luta', but this means read which does not make sense.

When she says she's the daughter of Tincancala (sp?) and Father Mahto - these names seem to be both taken from the Lakota language. Didn't Crowther claim one parent was Salish-Sioux and one was white? (Oh, perhaps this is another case of 'ndn by injection'....  :o )


Offline Spandex~Atom

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Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
« Reply #110 on: November 28, 2010, 02:01:09 am »
I'm a newbie here and not sure if this post is appropriate, so my apologies if this is not the case, and I will take it down.
This is directed towards those who wish to REALLY 'get it'.
It won't cost you any money!

To all who are reading this thread, please take the time to read the posts and keep an open mind. If you feel negative energy, don't switch the channel as if it will hurt your reality. Be brave. Sometimes the truth hurts. Remember the saying "wolves in sheeps clothing"? Think! Don't invest your energy in following this person, and don't give her your time and energy by promoting her movement.

Her movement (and don't kid yourself that it isn't her that it has been designed to centre around) is presently in its early stages, but it allready has quite a momentum building. Why? Because she feeds people what they want to hear!

She mixes in alot of topics that appeal to her target audience like forbidden history, star-people visiting Earth and their involvement over our history, government cover-ups and the witholding of vital technologies which would create a better world, spirituality,  positive thinking and the power of thought to co-create reality, and so on....

None of these things are an indication that she is who she says she is, and any good con artist can rattle off this type of script, and talk at length. No matter how attractive her presentation is to you, or how much she engenders a heartfelt response from you with her touching way of relating her message, think before you leap. Not all that glitters is gold.

"We are the ones we have been waiting for!"

"We are the Rainbow Warriors" ('The Tribe of Many Colours')

"The Ancestors Have Returned!"

"You are god/goddess!"

"Remember who you are"

If any of these statements resonate with you, despite who relly said them originally (which is worth researching wether they are all genuine!), then you should also realise that you don't need to be making an attachment to anyone as your shaman. 

So if you think/know you're a god or one of the ancestors reincarnated, you should also know that every single other person on this planet is your equal, right? What else do you need? You don't need anyone to be telling you what to do. You know what to do. It's simple. Try to be a good person in thoughts, words and deeds,  and generally be kind to others in your daily life. Also, why do you need anyone to tell you how to prepare for some future event? What are you afraid of? There is nothing you need to do any more than any other of the creatures on Earth. Do you think that Creator/ess (or however you concieve the Divine Source) doesn't care just as much about all creatures?  The best way to raise your vibrations if that's your concern is to go about being kind to people in a practical way in your daily life. That's my opinion anyway. Faith without works is dead. Holding crystals and sending healing etc is all great, and meditating is good for you, also raising your energy to be attuned to love........but it isn't going to turn you into a light being. You are allready that, so is an ant and a tree. The people peddling ways to help you ascend rely on you not allready knowing that, and that you have been given all you need to make it through whatever the universe presents you with without their expert help, knowledge or channelled messages etc. Take responsibility and go to the source yourself. Middlemen/women will only provide you with distractions, disillusionment  and perhaps an emptier bank account.

You certainly don't need to be promoting logos emblazoned with 'Little Grandmother' as someone who others need to be turning to as a source/channel of truth and guidance. Any of you with any sense can see how wrong this feels if you haven't become a devotee allready and invested your energy.


-Spandex

Offline Freija

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Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
« Reply #111 on: November 28, 2010, 11:09:22 am »
Well said, Spandex. And it pretty much goes along with my own thoughts.
What strikes me when you listen to these people is the way the present obvious facts, norms and values - like the things you (hopefully) learn as a kid: be good to each other!

If you just listen to the overall message - and the quotes you posted - it is getting more and more scary and extremely cultlike.
Kiesha obviously tries to create a group of godlike superhumans - or rather, convincing these people that they are above everyone else.
"We are the ones we have been waiting for!"  I vaguely remember someone else dreaming about a "master race", some guy with a funny moustache...(not Charlie Caplin) :)

I am really worried since I have friends deeply involved with this woman. And my attempts to make them open their eyes have failed as they have been told to be very careful of outsiders trying to mislead them. It doesn´t feel good. At all.

When I had the honour of spending time with Chief Looking Horse, he repeatedly said: "In the coming years, we will see more and more false prophets. Be very careful...."  I think he is right on the spot. (As usual)

Offline Niels

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Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
« Reply #112 on: November 28, 2010, 02:21:13 pm »
Dear Madam and Sirs,

I have read through most of your comments to Kiesha Crowther. I do think however you are way out of "your conspiracy minds"!! I agree some of this - I see as "name dropping", - who she knows and family lines  is childish but very common among all folks in all kinds of social environment - just go to a cocktail party in the media industry. Some of you people have the same tendency - just by knowing and are "close to" or have travelled with - been in the shadow off....a famous medicine person.

This White selfrealisation has been going on since the 70' where so called " indians" - they are human beings???  like most people are - all of a sudden were reinvented in the western world.
Everyone coming from a pit in the country, knows everything about racism and how Whiote bourgeous people from the city treat low life farmer children, - you do not have to be indian or black to have experienced that.

I have personally been to 3 Kieshas shows - 2 last summer and 1 here a month ago. They are interesting and by all means a lot of fun - and they are not dangerous and I am not a fool and not a sheep. These comments make me hold my stomach with laugh, when I read them here.
 
Arvols comments - there will come false prophets is as sure as the sun. They have allways been here and there will come more in all fields of life. From false businesspeople and politicians to plastic indians - Please have some fun and see it and teach your children to see the difference between real stuff and plastic.

I also know people selling coaching based on indian beliefs - but they leave out the credential to where they got it from,... Even Benjamin Franklin wrote the American constitution - "stealing" quite alot from The Great law of the 6 Nations, I have been told. Also Marx and Engells had studied the same law. And I believe that is fantastic - you cannot own wisdom it belongs to everybody. - as long as you DO NOT MAKING IT YOURS. That is stealing from the universe in my opinion!

I will say that the newage movement is not my cup of tea - I do not see much energy there - not much hard work - just a lot of fancy colors, and posters for money making salvation. That is also nothing new.
I tried  to sell flowers next to the road when I was a kid. I believe this newage thing is at the same level. Kids stof!!

Go and see a Kiesha Crowther show your-self and get 1. hand knowledge of what is going on. It is not dangerous. All the videos you refer to are edited and different from the show.
 
I believe most the people that come to the shows are just plain curious and have a sound mind. Of course it is nice to see and meet other people that have had strange experiences and live a spiritual life - after all - that life style can be found in any culture - even the Scandinavian - even in the middle of a city. Personally I have seen lots of strange things since I was a kid - I have never been initiated by anyone - except the nature and animals around me and Danish Radio and Television. - and I do know some very fine gentile people among ordinay indians - but in all respect I do not drop their names, - and in my daily work within the mediaindustry - it is also considered childish to drop names - lack of professional skill, - for all that counts is hard, hard  work and respect. Even you totally disagree, I believe that you must show respect and not fall in the same pit you just critisized. I have learned this from my parents and through-out my prof. media world  and been teaching that philosophy in the industry.

Instaed of rediculing people of their feelings and hopes - please redirect them and use fun and kindness and show them a way out. Share with them your ways and how to get on a new path.

I think, - however not to sound like a sour dog,  that this homepage is very important, - because it is an important search platform to keep the most insane con men and women out of business and give naive souls some facts. I have personally come across a few of conmedicinemen them in the 80´s. With all kinds of "holy " names they usually call themselves, but they are to "see through" for most people. Only young girls usually get blown into bed - while they wait in line - in between ceremonies:)

Well in my own industry Radio/ TV Media World, - it is filled up with con men and women. The only thing to do is to make a better world and show what YOU belive in and if you have someting to show others you better work your ass of - in full respect for your audience -the people you come from - in all respect for do not waste their time , - with either con or childish bullshit!

I Do respect your work on this homepage very much, - Thank You for letting me talk!

Niels Worsøe, Copenhagen, Denmark.








Offline Peasant

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Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
« Reply #113 on: November 28, 2010, 03:50:02 pm »
Hi Niels,

Welcome to the forums and thanks for your insight. I have to say i personally think the forum members here do show people something that's part of a better path... a path which includes using your mind, doing background research and applying discernment. If people here would constantly have to present this research they're doing about frauds as a sweet sugary wrapped candy, it would take a lot of extra energy. It would in a way be a lie to themselves, as people here would constantly have to detach themselves from how they personally feel about these situations, which is often angry, or a feeling of having been let down. Would anyone make a website like this if this person feels positive about everything and sees all these things that are going on as harmless childs play? Nah. There is a very good and very real reason for the Lakota (Sioux) people's declaration of war against the exploiters of their spirituality. And i think that if there's hardly any criticism about a 'spiritual teacher' or about some community, by ex-followers or ex-inhabitants, it's either an extremely, extremely rare case (like the Dalai Lama), or something fishy. I agree that people here are doing a good thing, and personally i feel much better by sharing my views, spelling out the facts, and contributing to exposing who people like Kiesha Crowther really are.

I have no doubt that Kiesha Crowther makes some jokes in her workshops and speeches, and that there seems to be a good mood of coming together. But i personally don't see what's fun about her telling people (in a completely 100% convinced way) the hoax that a large percentage of the world's population will die in 2012, i don't see what's fun about lying about all parts of her supposed tribal recognition by indigenous nations, what's fun about making up a BS prophecy about the year 2010 in one of her expensive talks, after watching some sensational tv-show. I have trouble seeing what's fun about promoting paranoia and potentially putting some unstable followers in danger of a psychosis by reciting ridiculous and wildly untrue conspiracy, disaster & armageddon theories she has read somewhere on the internet, all the while presenting them as if her 'ancestor spirits and elders' have told her to do so. And although this is not done by Kiesha Crowther but by her website admin, i do not see what's fun about having my name and the city where i live published in a locked topic on her Tribe forums, as a result of my posts here on the NAFPS boards. I believe you when you say you're stable enough not to be swept away by these lies she tells to people, but i know for an absolute fact that this does not count for everyone of the people who attend her talks and workshops and watch her videos.

These people are often vulnerable as they often feel disillusioned & depressed with the world, and are looking for some kind of hope. Kiesha Crowther tells them the kind of things they want to hear, but no matter how friendly she may be and how innocent she may appear to be, she is a delusional and horribly misled fake who simply tells way too many lies about herself and about the world.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2010, 03:42:27 pm by Crescent »

Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
« Reply #114 on: November 28, 2010, 05:14:52 pm »
Um. no. Medicine or whatever name a person gives to that humbled gift is not a source for personal ego such as 'name dropping'.
I've not met any person who has met true "medicine" that would speak of it at a cocktail party or with any in an attempt to build
their own image. The only people who speak like that are people trying to convince others of their self perceived greatness.

There is a huge difference between hearing someone say something wise, and then sharing that with someone else, and taking
a piece of a peoples' religion and using that as a means of self promotion. Especially when the piece they are using is already false
because they got it from some other fake, doing the same thing they are.

If it is part of a religion to convert others, then by all means, go and spread the word, share with others. But if the religion
and belief is NOT to do that, then why expect the members of that belief system to over step what they believe in order to
do what humans want?  No one would.

People seem to think they are 'owed' a belief. They are not. No Creator/God owes anyone anything. And NA's do not owe
the public a belief either. Especially when the people they have been kind and generous enough to share with, have then
taken it and used it to profit, or claim to 'know' it when they don't, and use it in falseness.

Instead, people steal bits and pieces and make it sound as though the gilded doors are standing open, just waiting for them,
and that by simply believing in their minds, somehow, it makes it all real. If they believe they are ascended, then they are.

There is no reality in this.

Some person with psychological issues makes up a bunch of hooey. Then they go on utube and spout like they are
some great knower, and gobble up all the vulnerable people who do not know that what they are being taught and
told is fake, and not real. Kiesha, and people like her,  rake in the money. And the people rake in a false belief, that
at some point in time, will crash. Hopefully, before they die so that it is not too late for them to actually live a true life.

None of this is fun. As for ridiculing. I don't see where anyone here ridicules the followers of such jerks. I see understanding
of the plight, but no one is really able to stop it. Except to put information on a internet board and hope they somehow stumble
on it and read it and open their eyes to the lies they've been told.

Kiesha is not who she claims, and what she teaches is made up. What she states is lies. And this, is not fun.

You say it is not dangerous? What implications do you not think are dangerous?  Fooling with peoples minds and beliefs?
Perhaps you equate danger only to physical harm. Psychological harm is just as dangerous.

press the little black on silver arrow Music, 1) Bob Pietkivitch Buddha Feet http://www.4shared.com/file/114179563/3697e436/BuddhaFeet.html

Offline nemesis

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Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
« Reply #115 on: November 28, 2010, 05:39:21 pm »
Everyone coming from a pit in the country, knows everything about racism and how Whiote bourgeous people from the city treat low life farmer children, - you do not have to be indian or black to have experienced that.

Let's get this straight.  You are claiming that white people know what it's like to be on the receiving end of racism if they grow up on a farm and encounter snobbery?

Are you trolling or are you really so stupid as to believe this is true?

I have personally been to 3 Kieshas shows - 2 last summer and 1 here a month ago. They are interesting and by all means a lot of fun - and they are not dangerous and I am not a fool and not a sheep. These comments make me hold my stomach with laugh, when I read them here.

Do you have even the slightest idea just how ridiculous you sound?

Who the hell are you to state what is dangerous and what is not?  Just what are your qualifications in this respect?  Serious question.

You claim not to be a fool or a sheep and yet your comments demonstrate otherwise.

you cannot own wisdom it belongs to everybody. - as long as you DO NOT MAKING IT YOURS. That is stealing from the universe in my opinion!

This is an outrageous statement to make in the context the cultural appropriation.  You are pretty much stating that NDNs are unable to own their own spiritual traditions because they never owned their traditions in the first place as "they belong to the everyone in the universe".  You would not be the first white person to believe that it is impossible to steal from NDNs, as google will demonstrate.  Just search for "native American" and "cultural genocide" to check out the historical roots of your odious proclamations.


Instaed of rediculing people of their feelings and hopes - please redirect them and use fun and kindness and show them a way out. Share with them your ways and how to get on a new path.

You're incredible you are.  You are honestly suggesting to NDN people who are hurt and angry about cultural appropriation, fraud and theft, to not get angry but instead to "share their ways" with a bunch of deluded newagers who foolishly follow a con woman?

The irony of the situation is that many NDN people have very generously given their time and energy, free of charge, to warn people about frauds like Crowther and her ilk on this very website and you response is not to thank them, or even to give serious consideration to their concerns but to dismiss them contemptuously, for example:  

I have read through most of your comments to Kiesha Crowther. I do think however you are way out of "your conspiracy minds"!!

then you go on to say

I Do respect your work on this homepage very much,

It seems to me that you have a lot to learn about respect as your posts here are incredibly disrespectful, narcissistic and just plain racist.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2010, 07:07:53 pm by nemesis »

Offline Ingeborg

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Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
« Reply #116 on: November 28, 2010, 06:20:28 pm »

Quote from: Niels
I do think however you are way out of "your conspiracy minds"!! I agree some of this - I see as "name dropping", - who she knows and family lines  is childish but very common among all folks in all kinds of social environment - just go to a cocktail party in the media industry. Some of you people have the same tendency - just by knowing and are "close to" or have travelled with - been in the shadow off....a famous medicine person.

Ahem. You should perhaps learn a few bits and pieces about other cultures before you come dashing along with such a bucket full of cultural insensivity....
What you, as arrogantly as incorrectly, chose to describe as name dropping has a very valid cultural background in ndn nations: individuals will introduce themselves by naming their relatives and ancestors. It is not rare for persons who have just met to continue with this until they find someone they are both related to, or at least both know.

Indian country is fairly small, so names will be known by many, if not all, even if they never met person in question personally. So names are not being mentioned to impress – far from it. Whatever the culture in your special subculture of media does and doesn't do and why may not be generalized.

Asking for Crowther's ancestors is also important in establishing whether she is what she claims. If she was ndn, her parents, grandparents, great-grandparents would be known to people. Ndn people, to be precise. Also Crowther would be known if she was what she claimed.


Quote
This White selfrealisation has been going on since the 70' where so called " indians" - they are human beings???  like most people are - all of a sudden were reinvented in the western world.
Everyone coming from a pit in the country, knows everything about racism and how Whiote bourgeous people from the city treat low life farmer children, - you do not have to be indian or black to have experienced that.

Apparently you come from a part of the world where people do +not know about racism.... Your claim that villagers may be met by certain stereotypes and prejudice from townspeople – you're certain you live in the same century as we do? Perhaps the media world does not...

However, I'll let you into a secret: you are speaking of villagers whose arses will be as lilywhite as yours and mine. Therefore we're not speaking of racism – a Danish villager may learn the ways of your fancy media world and thus be accepted. Ndn people, or black people, may do whatever they want, they will always remain what they are to racists who believe that the darker the brown, the inferior a person will be. This is something they cannot escape. So, no – to experience racism, being a Danish villager will not do.

In your above paragraph, I do not see any criticism regarding ndns having been „reinvented in the Western world“, as if it was a sort of birthright Europeans had to do with and to other ethnic groups whatever they felt like. Well, tough sh*t, as much as many of us Europeans may crave for such a birthright, we never had it, we don't presently, and we never will.

It is, therefore, inappropriate for a white bloke bursting in and attempting to give lectures on what you don't have an idea about. Your phrase „they are human beings like +most people are“ does leave quite some space for interpretation, BTW – just like most?, not like +all people are? Not like everybody else? So who will be more human than ndns? Your sentence has a certain odour to it...

Which is matched by the pomposity with which you assert you are waaay to superior to fall for whatever Crowther or the likes of her come selling. However, it is your kettle of fish if you do or whether you are prepared to listen. What you fail to see, or probably prefer to ignore, is that Crowther and her ilk come selling a spirituality which is not theirs in the very first place. But, the true white people they are, they believe they are entitled to grab whatever they feel like exploiting. This is just a new version of colonialism – and since lands, resources etc were already stolen long ago, this is what is left. Additionally, by their mimicking they will twist and disfigure what they steal, and they will mix ndn spiritually with all kinds of other stolen ideas. Like Crowther does. I suppose her assertion that her audience are gods will appeal to many white persons who feel unoriented and alienated in their own society, as many do here in Europe, and fill them with a new, albeit inappropriate feeling of grandiosity (again). As probably does Crowther when she falsely claims ndn descent, being a medicine woman, and when she even attempts to start 'her own' tribe.



Offline Freija

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Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
« Reply #117 on: November 28, 2010, 06:49:55 pm »
Hi Niels - I´m across the boarder in Sweden.
I did have alot on my mind and was typing away, but people on this board have already said most of it.

Just one more thing....

Please have some fun and see it......

Did you just tell Native Americans to have som fun while experiencing cultural genocide?


Offline Saga

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Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
« Reply #118 on: November 28, 2010, 06:56:26 pm »
To be totally honest here, the tribe of many colors thing might not seem dangerous, but at least for me personally to get caught into it was the worse thing that could happen to me. It left me hanging for a while in very thin thread. It was probably the sweetest message when I first heard it. I mean, I have been depressed most of my life and it was the first thing that actually made me think that there is something positive in the world (the very first message that is). I am usually very good at detaching myself from "gurus" and just objectively look the messages, but maybe it is because i usually check the "messenger" first before believing any of the message... well in this case ofc, the messenger looked very sincere and her message comforted me at first...  Then it started to change and I got confused. It didn't sound right to me, I am quite down to earth person and love nature related stuff and have been studying all kinds of "earth religions", so the new age stuff felt wrong to me, I got over it in my teens... In any case, it was something that made me think if everything was what it seems. Then someone posted this site somewhere, and the base of my "happiness" was shaken pretty badly. When you build on lies, your world will come down at some point, I guess... when I noticed that the doubt was right, I also noticed that I have no reason to believe any of the things this woman is representing as "truths". Also, what kind of person feel need to back up her truths with fake background and "recognitions"? What kind of person, after saying that the teachings are free and she is just sharing for greater good, starts to have workshops that cost a lot, while people still work for her for free to get her message out? What kind of person sells spirituality and things that are known all over already as absolute truths? What kind of person feels that she has right to represent more or less every indigenous people in the world with her new age theories and prophecies? And so on... At first it was all shame and hate and disappointment and feeling of being left alone in the dark again... I actually deleted my account from this forum once because i had difficulties to swallow the truth and I too felt that it is somehow "giving energy to the negative" (blah :p), if I come here. Well... after trying to build my own spirituality anew again from what I had left and what I had learned (it is quite hard to get it that we "white people" really do think that we own the world and need to find more respect for things, even tho we might not like it :p)... i actually came to conclusion that this site was probably the best thing that has ever happened to me. Not a gentle wake up, but at least I start to have an idea what might be more important in my life at the moment. And also, hard lesson, to build on more steady foundation, on things that actually have value in life, that are more true. Also think I will do my backup researches better from now on. :p

In short, I got hurt, I got frustrated, disappointed, sad, angry, almost depressed and was really close to rebel against the very idea that there is any goodness in the world, because of this one fake ruining the good message (which ofc would be in healthier forms in other places, most of her "famous" sayings that all quote from her are from other people too...) from me. And it started from the moment when I realized that there isn't anyway to think otherwise than the "guru" and her "tribe" think, if you are too loud with your disagreement, especially since you are told that you can't judge what others think, but ofc, you are wrong in this. :) And ofc, you are supposed to believe without doubt in the UFOs and conspiracies and pseudo science, or you are at very least, not very wanted conversation companion, or other option, you will get huge wave of disapproval on you or get ignored/ cut off. So you are not appreciated as yourself, but have to fake all the time to stay "superior" in awesomeness. :) Otherwise you are told to "change the channel". :) (which makes me think how all these apocalyptic theories Kiesha talks nowadays are not giving the energy for negative, shouldn't she change the channel too?)
Anyway, all this stuff she "creates" is irrelevant to good living and getting happy or getting along with other people. Maybe the reason you aren't getting along with the "normal" people and need to change channel from them in the first place is, that you want to be superior to them... "Tribe" creates huge amount of people that think they are going to be the only ones worth while. Ofc there is many who really get the good part of the message as it should be too, but many are there, since it is the easy fix and salvation and puts you in the group of "awesome" people who will get further than the rest, bit like nazis and all. ;p

Ok, wasn't short. Anyway, her "teachings" weren't healthy for me in the end, am happy that I am out now that the "messages" get even more crazy... I started to doubt myself and my own worth since I couldn't be the ideal "triber" for a moment. Happily, I have always been bit of a rebel when it comes to any sort of people who are trying to tell me what to think, so... Think I finally learnt my lesson tho, better to look inside for real wisdom and check the claims when someone is too good to be true.

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
« Reply #119 on: November 28, 2010, 08:33:38 pm »
Niels, first of all, welcome to the forum, and thanks for telling us of your experience. It is valuable for us to have firsthand accounts. I hope you'll take time to read the criticisms and think about them.

I don't see any need for me to repeat what others have said already. I just wanted to ask how you heard about Crowther and what made you think anything she said was genuine. You say that you weren't taken in or harmed by her, and that most others weren't also.

I have to wonder then, why did you go back two more times? How much did you pay? Wouldn't your time and money have been better spent doing something practical, like giving your time and money to a charity or cause that works to end the problems she discusses? Time spent on aiding the poor or the environment for example.