NAFPS Forum

Odds and Ends => Etcetera => Topic started by: Barnaby_McEwan on September 16, 2005, 06:26:29 pm

Title: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: Barnaby_McEwan on September 16, 2005, 06:26:29 pm
The first two segments of this  Wisconsin Public Radio (http://www.wpr.org/book/040321a.html)[/url] program feature Cherokee stoyteller Gayle Ross, Spokane writer Sherman Alexie and anthropologist Michael Brown. You'll need RealPlayer to listen to it. Brown's written a book  (http://www.williams.edu/go/native/thebook.htm)[/url] of the same title. His accompanying website (http://www.williams.edu/go/native/thebook.htm)[/url] lists Trisha's site (http://users.pandora.be/gohiyuhi/nafps/index.htm)[/url] as one of many excellent resources.

I loved Sherman Alexei's acidic remarks about newagers!
Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: educatedindian on September 16, 2005, 08:36:23 pm
"From Choice, April 2004. Toward the end of his book, Brown (anthropology, Williams College) points to a compelling paradox: 'Advocates of the indigenous 'we own our culture' perspective find themselves in the odd position of criticizing corporate capitalism while at the same time espousing capitalism's commodifying logic.'"

I heard this same argument in the Swedish book you showed me, Barnaby. I think both her and Brown are using a deliberate semantic argument to try and get Native rights people to go away in court.

Ownership=capitalism? Since when? Native traditions about ownership extend to owning land communally, by tribe, clan, or family, or to individual usufruct rights or individual rights to fallow land. Brown is guilty of falling for a romanticized image of Natives himself.

People in socialist countries don't own their clothing, cars, or even homes? I know in Cuba, perhaps one of the last two country to still claim to be dedicatedly Communist, most people own their own homes.

I don't see any sign of Lakota leaders wanting control over Bear Butte (Devil's Tower) so they can charge admission to white mountainclimbers. I don't know of any Hopi spiritual leaders offering Black Mesa for sale. Brown and others are confusing control over sacred sites and cultural property with buy-and-sell capitalism.

The only Natives I see trying to infuse the capitalist mindset with Native traditions are ceremony sellers.

But I do agree with him that the courts are often notthe best solution, esp given the rightward slant of US courts these past couple decades.
Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: Barnaby_McEwan on September 16, 2005, 09:26:06 pm
Quote
"From Choice, April 2004. Toward the end of his book, Brown (anthropology, Williams College) points to a compelling paradox: 'Advocates of the indigenous 'we own our culture' perspective find themselves in the odd position of criticizing corporate capitalism while at the same time espousing capitalism's commodifying logic.'"

Ownership=capitalism? Since when? Native traditions about ownership extend to owning land communally, by tribe, clan, or family, or to individual usufruct rights or individual rights to fallow land. Brown is guilty of falling for a romanticized image of Natives himself.


That struck me as odd, too. I have to admit I haven't read his book. I mentioned it because he was in the program and he's mentioned Trisha's site on his book's site.

Quote
I don't see any sign of Lakota leaders wanting control over Bear Butte (Devil's Tower) so they can charge admission to white mountainclimbers.


He talked about Bear Butte in the interview but didn't try to misrepresent the tribes' point of view in that way, though I guess many would disagree with his opinion that removing tourists from the area cannot happen because it would be 'unconstitutional'.

Anyway, I was much more interested in what Gayle Ross and Sherman Alexie had to say.
Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: Ric_Richardson on November 21, 2005, 04:39:04 pm
Tansi;

The topic of "Intellectual Property Rights" is one that is often discussed, in our work with Traditionally used plants.  It has also reached the UN's Working Group on Indigenous Peoples, and is a difficult issue to deal with.

I believe that our Culture has given us Traditional Knowledge, in order to help us to survive in an ever changing world.  When I see Traditionally used plants being sold, in the international market, it is usually by non native businesses.  I would like to see Aboriginal businesses developed to incorporate Traditional Knowledge in a Modern Economy.

The growing interest in Non Timber Forest Products (NTFP) is one area where Aboriginal people can take leadership in sharing our Traditional Knowledge, in an economically viable manner and in a way that will encourage a cultural exchange, which may help us all to understand our differences and our similarities.
Respectfully
Ric
Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: Moma_porcupine on April 25, 2007, 04:32:39 pm
I found an interesting article on intellectual property ( IP ) rights in relation to Aboriginal people in Canada .

It sounds like the concerns are mostly about how the capitalist world view , will affect indiginous cultures , and not so much that Native Elders are wanting the right to capitalize upon traditional knowledge , in a monetary sense .

Looks like this workshop took place in your neck of the woods Ric .

One obvious question raised , which comes up often in NAFPS , is what can be done if one or a few
indiginous people decide to capitalize on traditional knowledge , without respect to traditional protocols , when this knowledge is owned collectively by the whole tribe and by future generations , and when many other tribal members feel this is wrong .

Obviously if any American , or small group of Americans , could decide to ignore the feelings of other Americans and sell the resources in the National Parks to China , the National Parks would be clear cut and strip mined very quickly .   

People can read the whole summery through the link , but , I notice links to on line information tend to go dead after a while , so I wanted to copy out some parts , so we would have them here.

I have used BOLD type to emphasize a few points I thought might be most relevent to some of the discussions we have here.

http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/progs/ac-ca/progs/pda-cpb/pubs/our_culture_2005/index_e.cfm (http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/progs/ac-ca/progs/pda-cpb/pubs/our_culture_2005/index_e.cfm)

Preserving Our Cultural Property: A Workshop on Intellectual Property and the Preservation of Our Culture

First Nations University of Canada
Saskatoon Campus
710 Duke Street
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
March 3 and 4, 2005

Summary of Workshop Proceedings
-------
Opening Remarks

"Mr. Scott stated that the reason for this workshop was to discuss how to protect their culture and traditional way of life. He noted that some aspects of First Nations culture were being used inappropriately such as ideas from First Nations culture being commercialized without the consent of the relevant community."
-------
Saskatchewan Indian Cultural Centre (SICC)

"Mr. Morin noted that IP and cultural knowledge was being misused, exploited, sold and used in every which way. Mr. Morin stated that First Nations people have a responsibility to share information in order to better protect the knowledge of the Elders, and to pray to the Creator that First Nations people learn the knowledge and that non-First Nations and individuals discontinue using it."

"Mr. Albert Scott noted that companies and institutions increasingly seek out the traditional knowledge of First Nations communities in order to create new products for the global marketplace. He suggested that consumers were demanding natural products, and the tourism and cultural industries were becoming increasingly aware of the value of First Nations people in terms of their traditional practices and ways of life. According to Mr. Scott, the variety, beauty, and novelty of First Nations symbols, designs, and textiles are attracting commercial interests. He also stated that First Nations people needed to protect their knowledge and their cultures in order to pass it down to future generations and to contribute to the welfare of their communities."
----------------------
Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations

"Vice Chief Wapass concluded his remarks by saying that in seeking to protect their traditional knowledge, First Nations people were not seeking to make money. Rather, First Nations people were trying to protect and preserve what they have, but were slowly losing."

"Chief Wapass stated that as an educator, who has taken part in conferences, powwows and round dances across North America, he has listened to Elders and others speak on what First Nations people must do to survive as First Nations people. He noted that university institutions are researching Aboriginal medicines, for example. For Vice Chief Wapass, the question that comes to mind is what is guiding the research process in order to ensure that First Nations medicines were not being exploited, and to ensure that First Nations people won’t have to buy or obtain a government permit to gather their own medicines in the future."

"Vice Chief Wapass stated that he did not see himself as a keeper or owner of traditional knowledge, but as someone who helps to preserve the knowledge in order to pass it on to future generations."
------------
Dene Intellectual and Cultural Property Traditions and Protocols

"Chief Adams noted that his Elders had predicted that some day people would go after what was in their minds."

"There is also concern that this knowledge may be sold by some First Nations people for personal gain. He noted that there was a lot of pressure on First Nations people to promote their culture, art,
traditional ways, traditional medicines and medicinal practices."


"Chief Adams concluded his presentation by saying that the loss of indigenous knowledge is going on right now and First Nations people will end up being a people without ownership of their own knowledge. We have to watch out that this doesn’t happen."
----------
Cree Intellectual and Cultural Property Traditions and Protocols

"Mr. Sanderson noted that First Nations people live in a world where the dollar frames the worldview. First Nations people need to pass on to the next generation the knowledge that has been preserved by the Elders. One person cannot do this. Rather, it would need the collaboration of the entire community."

--------------
Nakawe Intellectual and Cultural Property Traditions and Protocols

"Mr. Scott stated that Nakawe protocols are not written down. By listening to the Elders and taking part in ceremonies you can perhaps one day become an elder yourself and help your community. Without proper protocols First Nations people will mislead each other, so it was important that people learn the protocols of their community. Mr. Scott said that he did not want to find a bear song, a rain dance song or other ceremonial songs on the Internet. He did not want to anger any tribes or bands that may have recorded their culture in order to preserve it. First Nations people did not do this prior to the coming of the Europeans. Mr. Scott stated that he believed in using traditional ways in order to preserve First Nations culture. In Nakawe country there are protocols that must be followed. There are no short cuts.12 If you take credit for something and try and make money from it, you are placing yourself and your loved ones in jeopardy if you don’t pay for it."

( I am assuming he means "pay for it " in the traditional sense with the proper traditional protocals , as his whole point is the importance of respecting these protocols )

He goes on to say ;

"Mr. Scott concluded his presentation by saying that his people were trying to do their best through the schools and by trying to persuade his people to take part in ceremonies. He again said that some things should not be used to make money. He called on members of the workshop to follow their traditions and their protocols because this was what First Nations people were given to use and to communicate."

----------------------
 
"The presentation on trade-marks generated a great deal of discussion regarding the inappropriate and/or offensive use by those outsiders of symbols and words traditionally belonging to First Nations. Some Elders expressed the concern that using IP tools like trade-marks encourages individual ownership and economic exploitation of sacred or culturally significant symbols and terms. In their view, this clashed with the traditional values and customs of their communities and contributed
to the erosion of their traditions.
"
-----
"A participant noted that some people in his community were upset when a First Nations entrepreneur created a new brand of cigarettes that used the image of a pipe as part of the packaging."
------
"A participant noted that naming a car after Jesus would likely offend many people, including many First Nations people. Yet manufacturers are allowed to name their products after sacred symbols (e.g. Thunderbird) or the name of a great chief (e.g. Pontiac, Tecumseh). The participant also noted that Elders have expressed concerns over the use of sacred symbols such as sweet grass on commercial products."
-------
"A speaker noted that the acquisition and transfer of knowledge are sacred kinds of things. The holder of knowledge is viewed as having a responsibility to ensure that the recipient of the knowledge does not abuse that knowledge, otherwise there may be negative consequences for the holder of the knowledge and his family. That is why you cannot -deal, for example, with traditional medicine in the same way as medicine purchased in a drugstore. The speaker suggested that this difference is perhaps based on the different perceptions of First Nations and non-First Nations people as to what may be considered sacred. For some First Nations people the concern is that if you disclose information about First Nations medicines you are, in effect, misusing the medicines and they would cease to be effective."


Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: Ric_Richardson on April 25, 2007, 06:37:08 pm
Tansi;

I have become aware of this conference, (which I was not invited to nor advised of) and understand many of the concerns that were brought up.

We know that universities and other researchers are studying our Traditional Medicines, with the supposed intent of commercializing them.  This is only one of the reasons that our Strategic Plan has included issues related to protocol and community choice, in determining which products, from our lands, become marketable.  This is also why our planned development includes community owned and operated businesses and co-operatives.

We continue to believe that there are many plants, which can be used commercially to support our highly unemployed and under-employed communities, in our region.  One of our fears is that these products will become available (and already are) with no recognition given to those Aboriginal people who "own" the Traditional knowledge of them.

There is another international conference upcoming, in May which I will attend, in order to further explore the commercial interests, involved in the use of Traditional knowledge, in a modern economy.

http://www.saskherbspice.org/tradition_to_technology/index.htm

Hope this helps.
Ric

Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: frederica on April 25, 2007, 11:04:57 pm
I heard some conversation a few years ago about something like this. An individual tribal member in Alaska took a story, which is owned rightfully by the Tribe and published it. But the individual received the payment not the Tribe or Clan. Most thought it was wrong, but really was little that could be done after the fact. Most of the "stories" on the internet are rewritten, some toned down for commerical use. We have never relied on what they call "Intellectual Copyrights", to preserve Traditiional knowledge. And for good reason of not wanting the Feds involved. It's a dilemma. frederica
Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: Ric_Richardson on April 26, 2007, 01:25:44 am
Tansi;

I think that I should make it clear that our efforts to develop a Non Timber Forest Product industry is only about using products, from our region and Cultures, in value added ways which would allow local economies to develop.  The selling of ceremonies or stories is not the focus for our efforts!

In recent court cases, the government has now realized that they must consult with Aboriginal people, in order to plan for increased logging or other uses of our Traditional lands.  Yesterday, I hosted a government official (also Aboriginal) who was interested in consultation related to Aboriginal Rights and the effects that increased logging, by Weyerhauser, would have on these.

We can see, in the north, that there is a need to use Traditional Knowledge in a Modern Economy, especially since many of our youth are not learning about their Cultural Knowledge, due to not being able to make a living from it.  Instead, they must leave their communities, to learn technical skills needed for work in the only jobs available, uranium mining, logging and oil and gas developments. 

In meetings today, with a representative of the local Tribal Council, we were able to discuss the level of interest in Non Timber Forest Product development, in the communities and difficulties in dealing with government about this.  Especially since there already exists an "underground" seasonal economy, mostly in berries and mushrooms, we believe that the development of a structured Non Timber Forest Product industry would be able to create more and fair benefits to harvesters and those with Traditional Knowledge.

Traditionally the trade in products from different areas was well established, which is why we have pipestone, from Minnesota, being found in archeological digs, as well as trade routes extending into British Columbia, Ontario and the present USA. 

The occasion of conferences, in Saskatchewan, related to NTFP's is evidence that the multi-national business community is quite interested in our resources.  We must position ourselves to be able to benefit from these developments, by producing the value-added products ourselves, instead of only harvesting for the corporations, with the limited benefits of selling raw materials.

Ekosi
Ric

 

Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: frederica on April 26, 2007, 03:07:35 pm
Ric. Sounds very good, and good luck. You and the Council have a job on their hands just keep it equitable in your dealings with large Corporations and the Government, let alone trying to protect Tribal rights and Traditions. frederica
Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: Moma_porcupine on April 26, 2007, 08:58:56 pm
Hi Ric
I wasn't really intending to turn this thread into a discussion of your particular business , but as you bring it up , I guess your business might be a good example of some general principals .

I absolutely love blueberries , and I admire your determination to create a better economic environment in your community through creating sustainably harvested , value added products. I would imagine there are many possibilities , such as wooden furniture, toys , recreational equipement , leather goods from hides , traditional foods , ect .

You have also many times mentioned finding ways to integrate Tradional Medicine into a modern economy . As we have already discussed , there is conflicting opinions in many Native communities around the commercialization of at least one of these Traditional Medicines  ( sweetgrass ) , and after seeing the report posted above,  apparently these concerns extend to other Traditional Medicines as well .

A few times you have mentioned what sounds like a group of people in your area , having made a Plan which has carefully considered traditional protocol and community choice .

1. I am curious who exactly this group of people is ? Were there a number of community Elders involved in the descion process  and , would you be able to tell us the names of the Elders and tribal leaders who are guiding and supporting  the commercial development of Traditonal Medicine  , in your area ?

2.  Who was the tribal council representive you just mentioned , and what tribe do they represent ?

3. Do these tribal representives and Elders support all aspects of your activities , or is there some differing opinions on some of them ?

I have noticed that in our past discussions on this issue, you have not once acknowledged that there are any traditional people who are not comfortable with the sale of Sweetgrass , and instead you insist sweetgrass has always been traded , and commercializing this is respecting traditional protocols 

4. Have you ever heard traditional people and Elders say that Sacred plants that are used in ceremony such as sweetgrass should not be sold ?

5. Were there any Elders or traditional people in your community who did not support your commercializing some of the Traditional Medicines you are commercializing ? 

6. If these medicines were always traded for profit  how do you explain the Elders who are upset to see this sold , and the many traditional people who feel this is wrong ?   

I know traditional people are often reluctant to directly critize or confront someone if they don't agree with what they are doing .

7.I am wondering if Elders in your area were uncomfortable with the commercialization of some Traditional Medicines , how would you know this ?

8.Would you be told directly ?

9. If you have heard objections from some Elders and traditional people , with regards to commercializing some Traditional Medicine , but other Elders and traditional people felt this was OK ,  how would you decide who to listen to ?

10. If Native people in other areas do not agree with the sale of some traditional medicines , that might be sold in their traditional territories , how will you accomadate these concerns ?   

I really don't know much about the details of traditional protocols , and maybe this is different in different areas , but , the trading of Medicines I have seen , has always been informal exchanges after a ceremony or a during a visit , and in this way Medicines get evenly distributed so everyone has what they need .

In reply #11 , in the thread discussing the sale of Sweetgrass , you did mention that you feel it is   
appropriate to gift the Ceremony leaders with money , so they could obtain things they could not trade for .  In reply #31 , you mentioned that you felt it was traditional to trade for Traditional Medicines long before non native influnece .

11. Are you saying that in your area Traditional Medicines used to be traded for a set fee , for profit ?     
12.If you believe Traditional Medicines were aquired with trade goods and Ceremonial leaders were traditionally compensated with trade goods, how do you see charging a set fee for Traditional Medicines , or for a Traditional Ceremony as being substantially different ?

I do understand what you are saying about a lot of these Medicines being harvested and sold commercially anyways . I also understand that when many Native communities are loosing the struggle to stop the drug trade , the problem of people selling some of the better known Traditional Medicines without the traditonal protocols , probably seems like a small battle , that was lost a couple decades ago . Maybe you are right and people being able to make a bit of money is more important . In some situations of desparate need , I can easily agree this would be true .

I don't mean to be disrespectful . I'm just not clear who exactly in your community , has decided what Traditional Medicines and practices can be used for economic development , and which ones can't be , and how this decision was arrived at  .

How these descisions can be made in a respectful way , and who has the authority to make them , is the topic of this thread , so your communities experinece in this would be interesting .

I know this is a long list of questions , but as you frequently promote your idea of integrating Traditional Medicine into a modern economony I would really appreciate it if you could take the time to answer them all . I've asked some of them before , but you did not respond . I guess it isn't always clear what I am asking . I hope all these numbers helps ... I don't mean to be rude .
Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: Ric_Richardson on April 27, 2007, 04:14:52 am
Tansi;

First, I should tell you that we do not have a "business" in this area yet, as we are still in the developmental stage.  Second, I have spoken about the use of Traditional Knowledge, Products and Values, in a modern economy.  Third, our people consider all plants and many other things, as Medicine. 

In response to your questions, I am unable to answer some of these, but will try to respond to all of them, as I have always done.  It is unfortunate that I am not able to give a history lesson, or one on the protocols, in our region, which of course will impact your ability to understand the conditions and situations in our region.

1.  The group of people are my wife and I, who have financed the development of this concept, so far and only recieved government support to partially fund the Strategic Plan.  However, we have been regular participants in the International Gathering of Traditional Medicines and Healing, for many years, during which time, I make tea and discuss many of these concepts with many of the Elders present.  Visiting with many Traditional land users and meeting with people in the berry picking areas has also contributed to an understanding of the support that exists for this concept.   After years of discussion, both with these Elders and with Elders and community leaders throughout our region, we contracted the services of Royal Roads University's Centre for Non Timber Resources, to write the Strategic Plan, which was completed in Sept. 2006.  I do have the right to tell you my name, but do not have the right to interfere with the privacy of those people who we speak with. 

2. I should explain that the term "Tribal Council" has apparently a different meaning, than wherever you are from.  The Meadow Lake Tribal Council is made up of 9 First Nations, in our region, which include Dene and Cree people.  I am in regular meetings with many there, but met with the Agricultural coordinator the other day, as he has been delegated to pursue this.  We have also consulted with many Metis Traditional land users and local Presidents, in our region.

3. Every Elder or First Nation representative that we have met with support our concept, especially since each community will determine, through their own methods, which products will be used in commercial enterprise.  We do not use the term, "Tribe" but we have had positive meetings with many First Nations Chiefs, including the Chief of the Federation of Saskatchewan Indians, who represents the majority of First Nations, in Saskatchewan and who is very supportive of these efforts.  There are a number of Medicines, which are considered too sensitive to commercialize, as we ourselves know, and that we understand will not be made available to the market. 

4. Yes and no, since most ceremonial leaders, in our area have access to Sweetgrass, but do purchase tobacco and prints, which are used in ceremonies also.  The sale of Sweetgrass is quite common, in our region.

5. No.

6. It depends on what you consider profit.  In the past, as well as now, gifting is also a competitive practice, which often leads to a deliberate attempt to show that one can give more than they received.  It is not uncommon for someone to be given horses or even automobiles, when they have provided assistance with health and healing.

7 and 8.  Yes we would know, since the moccasin telegraph is still working very well, here. As well, we would be told directly.

9. As previously stated, each community would determine which products are made available to the market, using their own protocols.

10. We do not anticipate this happening, but would definitely be open to a dispute resolution process.

11. Traditionally, there was no set price, but Honour would dictate that appreciation was recognized.  It would be very good if everyone used Respect and Honour, but we do not anticipate that, so will collectively determine Fair Trade standards, ensuring that the Traditional Knowledge, as well as the labour and expenses are recognized as having value, in setting prices.

12. As previously stated, Traditionally, Honour and Respect were the guides in trade.  I have never supported a set fee for ceremony, since those that would be involved with these, would understand, or be taught the proper protocols.  I do take offense that you would try to slip that one in!

I also find it very disrespectful for you to try to equate the sale of Non Timber Forest Products, with the drug trade, which has had very devastating effects on my family, my community and my region.

I can only assume that you reside in an area, in which Aboriginal people are in the minority, unlike here where we form the majority population.  Unfortunately, we do not see signifcant local and regional benefits from the resources of our region, which are taken out, by the billions of dollars worth, annually.  I should also note that our region, northern Saskatchewan, is slightly larger than Unified Germany, but has a population of less than 70,000, of which 60% are Aboriginal, being Cree, Metis and Dene.  This is not a game with us, we live our Culture every day!

Respectfully;
Ric








Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: Ric_Richardson on April 27, 2007, 01:00:32 pm
Tansi;

I have noted that M Porcupine has mentioned that she/he supports the inclusion of Blueberries, in our efforts to find economic benefits from local, Traditional knowledge and resources.

While many people look at Blueberries as a food, it should be noted that they have excellent anti-oxidant values, as well as being recognized to reduce the incidence of Alzheimer's disease.  Blueberry tea is known to be able to arrest Type 2 Diabetes and there are a number of other health benefits to be gained from consuming this Medicinal plant.

The local, natural wild Blueberries are also superior in taste, to commerically grown products.

They can be marketed in numerous value-added ways, including pie filling, jam, juice, capsules, fruit roll-ups and teas, just to name a few methods of adding value to one of our Non Timber Forest Products.

Ric

Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: Moma_porcupine on April 27, 2007, 03:34:56 pm
Hi Ric

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions .

Um - so your point about the blueberries is supposed to be that if i buy blueberries I am buying traditional Medicine so I should just shut up about the Sweetgrass ? LOL

Ric , I have concerns when someone repeatedly says they are integrating Traditional Medicine with a modren economy in some sort of community process  , but they don't name the Elders and First Nations leaders who are guiding this process . If this is any kind of formal First Nations intitative as you repeatedly suggest it is , I don't see why naming the people involved in this would violate
anyones privacy. That you feel this way , suggests the consultations about the use of Traditional Medicines were something you have done privately, on your own , and there has not been any kind of formal public community process.

Ric
Quote
"leaders, in our area have access to Sweetgrass, but do purchase tobacco and prints, which are used in ceremonies also. "

I think the difference is if something has been produced for consumption , it isn't considered consecrated to ceremonial use until it is obtained for that purpose . For example I am not aware of any problem selling a basket woven with Sweetgrass , but Sweetgrass for ceremonial use is consecrated when it is picked .The objections seem to come up up when something intended to be used in Ceremony is sold . A good example of this is in this post from the Manitoba Warriors Society ;

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:ChySADNPfbwJ:puffin.creighton.edu/lakota/war_4.html+sell
ing+sweetgrass+elders&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=28&gl=ca (http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:ChySADNPfbwJ:puffin.creighton.edu/lakota/war_4.html+sell
ing+sweetgrass+elders&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=28&gl=ca)

Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997
From: Manitoba Warriors Online manitoba@canadamail.com

Quote
"If only we could count the times our members have gone to powwows and seen people selling and buying items that were never ment to be sold. We rescently recieved a letter from another First Nation's person complaining to us about how we were going to wreck his business by telling people that what he is selling has no spiritual value when they buy it from him and his mail order business. He stated that since he is Dakota it is, his 'tradition', and we should respect it, as we all have different traditions. We replyed to this man in this way: We have Dakota brothers within our Society and in none of the traditions that they have given does it say that they are obliged to sell sweetgrass and tobacco ties as you are doing. "

So I guess it can be offensive to buy cloth and tobacco if it is already been dedicated for ceremonial use .

Even selling tobacco that has been grown for ceremonial use , is considered inappropriate in the Six Nations area .

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:76vb3N7g-hIJ:www.aboriginalbusinesscases.com/bestpractices.pdf
+%22not+sell%22+sweetgrass+elders&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=17&gl=ca (http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:76vb3N7g-hIJ:www.aboriginalbusinesscases.com/bestpractices.pdf
+%22not+sell%22+sweetgrass+elders&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=17&gl=ca)

Quote
Aboriginal Communities and Sustainable Rural Development: Best Practices of Rural, Agricultural-related Aboriginal Ventures

In Sweet Grass Gardens, the elders visited Ken and Linda Parker. They were concerned about what knowledge would be shared about the plants. They also were concerned that people should not profit from selling ceremonial plants. Ken and Linda had told the Elders they wanted to restore the numbers, and preserve and maintain them. They also do not sell Indian tobacco but rather exchange or trade for this sacred healing plant. The recipient of the tobacco determines the value of the trade.

Ric
Quote
12. As previously stated, Traditionally, Honour and Respect were the guides in trade.  I have never supported a set fee for ceremony, since those that would be involved with these, would understand, or be taught the proper protocols.  I do take offense that you would try to slip that one in!
I wasn't trying to slip anything in . Why would you take offence ? It seems like a reasonable question . Though I am not familiar with your exact area  , I do know that you are surrounded by areas where Elders are saddened by the sale of Sweetgrass, and I don't believe selling Sacred Medicine for profit is the traditional protocol in the areas surrounding you. As you say learning traditional protocols will protect ceremonies from being sold and it isn't protecting Medicines from being sold , of course i wonder where you draw the line and why you draw it there .

Ric
Quote
I also find it very disrespectful for you to try to equate the sale of Non Timber Forest Products, with the drug trade, which has had very devastating effects on my family, my community and my region.

I wasn't trying to draw an analogy in that way . I was commenting on the dificulties in stopping people
from making money any way they can , even if it has an obvious negative consquence , as is the case of the drug trade . I called selling sweetgrass a small thing in comparison because it is not so obviously negative .

As the practice of selling some Sacred plants has become so widespread trying to stop it is impossible , maybe this Elder in Edmonton , Dave Laswisse gives the best advice , but please don't try and say there are no traditional people in the areas surrounding you , that object to the commercialization of Sweetgrass  .

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:MtRNTQdmxMYJ:www.ammsa.com/windspeaker/windnews97.
html+%22buy+sweetgrass+%22+Elders&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=ca (http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:MtRNTQdmxMYJ:www.ammsa.com/windspeaker/windnews97.
html+%22buy+sweetgrass+%22+Elders&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=ca)

Quote
By Kenneth Williams
Windspeaker Staff Writer
EDMONTON

"A dilemma faced by Aboriginal people, particularly those living in cities, is whether or not it's acceptable to buy sweetgrass, sage or other smudging materials. The immediate reaction is that it shouldn't, because of the sacred nature of these items. The problem arises however whenever urban Aboriginal people, who want sweetgrass, can only get it when they buy it from a shop.

Ken Belcourt, who's been selling furs in Edmonton for most of his life, sells sweetgrass. He believes he is providing a service, but is not ashamed to admit he makes a little profit as well.

People, both Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal, have criticized him for selling the smudging material."
(con... )

"Dave Laswisse is a cultural co-ordinator at Poundmaker's Lodge, a substance abuse treatment facility in St. Albert, a city on Edmonton's northern border. Even though he said he is not about to judge someone else, he finds that it's better for the user to learn where sweetgrass comes from and how to pick it for themselves.

"A lot of people that come here for treatment have never gone out to pick sweetgrass and its good for them and it gives them a connection to Mother Earth," he said.

Laswisse also feels that sweetgrass is being used too often.

"The only time we used sweetgrass is when there was a big storm or trauma in the family. We never lit it everyday and waved it around," he said. "It was never bought [and] never sold."

Even though this is the way he was brought up, Laswisse is quick to emphasize he doesn't judge other people or how they use it."

Ric
Quote
I can only assume that you reside in an area, in which Aboriginal people are in the minority, unlike here where we form the majority population.
Ric
Quote
This is not a game with us, we live our Culture every day!

I have noticed that when I support the many Elders who are uncomfortable with people selling sweetgrass,  you repeatedly make comments to suggest I don't know what I am talking about
and out of touch with reality .

I'm uncomfortable that you do that Ric . It isn't that I expect you to respect me , because I am nobody important , but it would be nice if you showed more respect for the heartfelt concerns of Elders who don't share your own opinion . And it isn't just a few eccentric individuals as you seem to want people to believe .

I hope brushing people off , who have a different understanding of traditions than yourself , isn't the way you conducted your community consultation process .

Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: Ric_Richardson on April 27, 2007, 04:31:20 pm
Tansi;

M. Porcupine-  I have attempted to show Respect in answering your questions, but realize that you are totally fixated on Sweetgrass and apparently do not wish to learn about what I have been speaking of.

It is possibly that I observe local protocols, when discussing the concept of the development of a Non Timber Forest Product industry, when I approach Elders and community leaders, to learn about the issues that can be dealt with, with this form of industry development, that I am able to hear of issues that this form of economic initiative is looked at, in a positive light.  In our region, more can be accomplished over a pot of tea, than on the internet.

Many Elders, local organizations, economic development agencies and Aboriginal groups are not happy about the continual destructive exploitation of our Traditional territories, with very limited benefits coming to our communities.  Almost every Aboriginal family, in our region has family members who pick and sell Traditionally used plants, although mostly as raw materials.   

In your world view, it may be that it is easier to argue against the use of plants, destroyed in the logging, mining and oil and gas developments, than it is to understand the waste of these precious resources, which could contribute to much needed economic development which benefits our people.

Please consider what I have spoken of, the next time you buy corn and potatoes, from a non-native corporation, cloth, from a non-native corporation or tobacco.

Some of us do not believe that the only people who deserve to profit from our Traditional knowledge and resources, are White!

Ekosi
Ric



Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: frederica on April 27, 2007, 08:13:46 pm
There is one that I know of here, called Native Seed. They had some problems in the beginning with Montsanto, but it worked out for the most part.  They been around for over 20 years or so. http://www.nativeseeds.org/v2/content.php?catID=1020 and http://www.nativeseeds.org/v2 content.php?catID=1018 frederica
Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: weheli on April 27, 2007, 08:19:02 pm
 I can only speak for the Cherokee and not for other Tribes. I do want to ask, are we talking about all things that is sacred or just sweetgrass? As I recall we have had this discussion before;
http://newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=580.0


                                                                         Weheli

Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: Moma_porcupine on April 27, 2007, 09:44:56 pm
I think we are talking about who owns Native culture generally . The article I quoted from called "Preserving Our Cultural Property" spoke extensively on Intellectual Property rights in the area of Traditonal Medicines . Sweetgrass is one of the better known Traditional Medicines , so it is easier to use as an example of something cultural that is collectively owned , and how the use of this commercially , can bring up conflicting values .

I'm not sure how potatoes got into the discusion , but I have been amusing myself thinking how they might be used as Traditional Ceremonial Sacred Smudge . LOL It'll be a while before I can buy a store bought potatoe without laughing . I guess when I'm hungry potatoes are the perfect Medicine . The thing is , I have never heard any Elder say we shouldn't buy or sell potatoes , or moose meat or blueberries .

So i am a bit lost with this rationalization of, " everything is Sacred" ,so ," everything can be bought and sold " .

I guess we all understand things differently .
Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: frederica on April 28, 2007, 01:29:46 am
Sweet grass is also commonly used in the East to make baskets, mostly in Carolina and have seen some in Virginia. It is sold commerically also. You can buy the seeds and plants if you like. Same with Sage, which is several types, and not used much in the East. Here something on the Sweetgrass. http://www.sweet-grassbaskets.com/aboutplant.htm      frederica
Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: Ric_Richardson on April 28, 2007, 03:01:33 am
Tansi;

I will not bother with this much more, but felt that it should be mentioned that discussions about Intellectual Property Rights extend to all things from Native Culture, including foods and Medicines, as well as stories, ceremonies and others.

As potatoes and corn were among many food items that were shared with non-natives, I think of them as contributions to modern society, by Aboriginal people. 

In our discussions about IP Rights, and in discussions with NGOs with UN status, while in Switzerland, we have spoken of the implications of IP Rights, in the introduction of products, for food or Medicine, not already in the public realm.

Some of these issues are discussed by the Food and Agriculture Organization of the UN, who publish a journal called "Non Wood News"  www.fao.org/forestry/nwfp/nonwood.htm

It may be good that M Porcupine can laugh at the contributions that our people have made to modern diet, without ensuring that proper credit is given to those who shared these ideas.

IP Rights extend, in principle, to many things from many Cultural teachings.

Ric
Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: Moma_porcupine on April 28, 2007, 04:17:25 am
Quote
It may be good that M Porcupine can laugh at the contributions that our people have made to modern diet, without ensuring that proper credit is given to those who shared these ideas.

Ric , I didn't follow your logic about the potatoes . Your many insinuations that I am somehow stupid or the enemy for remembering what Elders told , me feels very disrespectful ,manipualtive and dishonest . As it appears people in areas surrounding yours are also conflicted over commercialization and traditional protocols , is very hard for me to believe you are not fully aware of some of these traditional protocols and the conflict around commercialization . It seems like it probably just doesn't fit into your plans to acknowledge this .

If you treat other people like you have treated me , and anyone who was taught by Elders that something shouldn't be commercialized , gets twisted around in your mind into being the enemy, or stupid , I find that more than a bit scary . Especially in conjunction with all your involvement in  promoting traditional medicine  , indiginous intellectual property rights,  and what sounds like Canadian government economic development projects  .

I'd like to say something nice , but at this point I am just at a loss for words ...
   
Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: debbieredbear on April 28, 2007, 05:08:57 pm
I do not know exactly how I want to phrase this, so please bear with me. But I have had thoughts rolling around in my head for a few days and yesterday it kinda came together. What brought this, was I went to my mail box and in it found my new AllNative.com catalogue. This company is 100% owned by the Hochunk nation. And in it, there is sage and sweetgrass for sale. Now what this has to do with my thoghts is this: I see two different ideas here and neither in neccessarily wrong. One side says it is NEVER right to sell things like sage and sweetgrass. The other side says that it sometimes ok to do this. On the one side, I have a memory of two hippie types ripping sage from the sides of Bear Butte, obviously to take to soem nuage store and sell as Bear Butte sage, even tho the sage there was endangered. The other side to this is when I recieved some sweetgrass from a friend who used to own a store near where I live. She told me she only bought it from a group from Canada that picks and sells it to support their rehabilitation center. Her sage came from an Oregon group that used proceeds to help abused Native women. Here I want to point out that I really can't say who is right and who is wrong. It's like when I went to PIpestone. There were pipes being sold. The Lakota woman I was with was horrified by that. She felt it was NEVER correct or good or right to sell a pipestone pipe. However, when my husband spoke to the pipe makers, they told him that the pipes were only sacred after being consecrated, so they felt what they did was ok.

My point in all of this is just that NEITHER side is going to agree with the other.  Is one right and the other wrong? I don't know. What I can see clearly as wrong is the two hippies violating a sacred place. Or the white jerk who used to live near here who claimed he sold "authentic" Native art that he made. When the Indian Arts and Crafts Act was waved in his face, he whined that now no one would buy his art. He didn't even have permission from the people who's art he copied. THAT is clearly wrong. On the other side, there are many many medicines that came from indigenous peoples around the world. None of these people benefitted. Now that is clearly worng and maybe we can make changes to that some day.
Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: frederica on April 28, 2007, 06:27:45 pm
I agree with you Debbie, I've thought about it, and I not sure myself. I think the difference is the exploitation. Corporations like Monsanto and the Pharmacuticals have a past history of such as do individuals. But when the Nations or the Communites are trying to preserve the Indigenious plant and can make use of them to support their ecomony, it requires some thought and planning. To me, it looks like they are in the process of doing just that. Maybe good planning will decrease the exploitation. Another problem I see is I can't judge another Nations actions as I am not a member and am not there to judge the circumstances. I remember the Pipestone petitions going around the internet, and an Elder stated be careful what you do as you may put a lot of people out of work. frederica
Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: Moma_porcupine on April 29, 2007, 12:02:58 pm
It seems contradictory to me, to be trying to protect Native traditions from irresponsible people , if on the other hand people want to employ their communities selling Sacred items used in traditional Ceremonies , to people they don't even know.

If non native people buy a ceremonial "product" they will believe they own what they bought , and they have a right to use it, whether there is an understanding of cultural responsibility or not . If something is sold , with the approval of a Native community , it was not stolen , and it isn't fair to criticize people for dabbling in Native ceremonies , if they use the items that were sold to them , incorrectly . Either you want customers or you want people to learn the Spiritual traditons in a real way . I don't think it is possible to have it both ways .

I guess , in a perfect world , ownership would be connected with the responsibility to protect , before the right to exploit . In the world today , things are set up to reward and recognize the rights of exploiters and not protectors , and it seems there is not much that can be done to stop it . At least in the short term .

Thanks for your thoughts . I appreciate your efforts to find a middle ground in a difficult topic . In the end we all have to get along with our friends , family and community even if we don't agree with something someone else is doing . I remember Elders saying things about that too . So I guess it is important to keep a perspective , and remember to keep it all in balance .
Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: Ric_Richardson on April 30, 2007, 04:54:32 pm
Tansi;

I know that people, like M Porcupine, will not see what it is that we are working on, but I have chosen to attempt to explain why it is that we have spent several years and a great deal of time and money, in the carefully planned development of socio-economic initiatives, which include the commercial benefit of natural resources, in our region and Respect for the Self-Determination of our peoples.

Please know that I am not the one who will choose which products are marketed, these decisions will be made by community based boards, made up of the Traditional land users.   

In our Strategic Plan, we have recognized the concerns of some communities and Aboriginal groups, in relation to determination of which products are commercialized.

In the "Vision Statement" we have included the statement: "The activities of the Centre will lead to increased recognition of a more holistic approach to forest ecosystem management, and of all the values - including non-monetary values - that the forest can provide."

In Section 11, we have addressed several issues, related to the fears of commercialization of products, which communities consider unable to be sold and their right to make the choices of these, at the community level.  This section is entitled "Risk assesment and barriers to implementation." and states that "Although the risks involved in a venture of this kind are normally assumed to be primarily financial, there are other risks that must be considered as well (i.e.- divisions within the community over the commercialization of certain products).  It is also important to recognize the risks of doing nothing.  Taking no action on the opportunities outlined - in the absence of any other similarly community-based activities - does involve a risk in terms of missed opportunities for locally controlled economic development."

At present, there are a number of corporations who are purchasing products from our region, for use in the pharmacological and cosmetic industries.  This is done with no participation from either communities or Aboriginal groups. 

In Section 11-2 we have addressed the issue of potential lack of community support, in the initial stages of development.  This section reads: "For a variety of reasons, the community support necessary to make the project a success may be lacking.  The reasons for this may be a lack of understanding of the sector and the opportunities it presents (as can hopefully be addressed through the awareness raising program outlined earlier), a concern over how commercial NTFP harvesting - especially of specific resources such as medicinal herbs - can impact traditional cultural practices, or suspicion of the parties involved in leading the promotion of the sector and the Centre.  Reaching out to develop broad-based partnerships with a variety of key actors and organizations may help to address many concerns.  It should also be made clear that this is a regionally-based and controlled initiative where communities are taking the lead.  Development must respect the wishes of communities, without establishing their trust, this initiative will be doomed to failure."

As we continue to work on the planned and structured developement of this socio-economic initiative, which will ensure that communities are fairly represented in the development plans, we know that the individual contracting of people to harvest plants in our region, by corporate entities, is already creating the danger of having some of our very sensitive Medicines being commercialized, without any input from Aboriginal communities, which would be represented if we were to assert our self-determination, in creating community and locally owned businesses and co-opeatives, which would maintain control over the resource extration and choice of product development.

Judging from the amount of support that we have already received, we continue to believe that we are moving in the right direction.

Ric
Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: Lord-of-Disco on May 01, 2007, 07:04:45 pm
Another question is, who owns knowledge?
Who owns wisdom?
Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: Moma_porcupine on May 04, 2007, 03:40:58 pm
Hi Ric
Most of what you are doing sounds really positive , but there is something that is bothering me about IP and determining who decides what is too culturally sensitive to market .  I am sorry to be breathing down your back , but this is an important subject .

I am not sure what you mean when you talk about Traditional Knowledge in a modern economy . While you say communities will decide what products they will market , I see you have already been marketing some forms of traditional medicine.

Here is a few webpages that mention you traveling to Germany and Switzerland marketing (http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:1nmRFyxZmC0J:www.shbba.sk.ca/in-house_archived/2004_
february.pdf+%22Ric+richardson%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=ca) and promoting
traditional medicine (http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:hVLuPl_e7BgJ:www.taigarescue.org/_v3/design/print.php%3Fview%3Dtaiga_news%26tn_ID%3D1035+%22Ric+richardson+%22+tourism+Germany&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=9)

Your own website (http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=%22The+online+gateway+to+spiritual+and+physical+healing+%22&btnG=Search&meta=) comes up in a google search saying your business is a gateway to spiritual and physical healing ,and the advertisement for the week long medicine walk (http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:4_bnyRbECCgJ:www.ir.gov.sk.ca/adx/asp/adxGetMedia.asp%3FDocID%3
D3371,3088,3087,2936,Documents%26MediaID%3D5879%26Filename%3DBusiness%2BUnlimited%2BJune%2BJuly%
2B2003.pdf+%22Ric+richardson%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=54&gl=ca) mentions the Medicine Wheel , and includes instruction on traditional plant medicines , healing circle ceremonies (http://web.archive.org/web/20060213222405/http://www.culturalnative.com/medicinewalk.shtml) and traditional stories .
 
I don't see anything advertised here that crosses any obvious lines that I know of , and what you are doing wouldn't raise my concerns at all , except for the fact you seem to have BIG plans to offer marketing for "Traditional Knowledge" over a wide area . Looking at what you have been marketing so far , I am not sure what you mean when you talk about using "traditional knowledge" for a modern economy , but I haven't come across anything that mentions you are marketing value added lumber and blueberry products . You have said yourself that you intend to provide communities with
the opprotunity to market sensitive cultural products , but that they will be able to choose not to sell anything, they are uncomfortable selling .

I am concerned that if you are providing marketing opprotunities , this opprotunity will probably
encourage individuals and communities to market things that were never before commercialized , and given the opprotunity , individuals wanting to do this will put continuous pressure on their communities to agree to this . Especially if they see a neighboring community making money on something, their own community decided is too sensitive to commercialize .

It would seem really important to me , that decisions to do with protecting Spiritual traditions , are not in the hands of only a few individuals who stand to make money or loose money  . Bringing the possibility of making money into the picture , when it comes to Spiritual traditions , will reward people for irresponsible exploitation , and over time that will tend to warp things. It would seem to me , it is really important that the decision to encourge the marketing of sensitive cultural traditions ( or not ) through providing marketing opprotunities ( or not ) should be the result of a process of formal public meetings and consultation that include many Elders and traditional leaders. Did I understand you correctly that these decisions to encourage the marketing of potentially sensitive cultural traditions ,
was made by you and your wife, on the basis of your personal experince , understanding , and private meetings with people you feel might not like to be named ? If so , I have some concerns about that .
 
As the speakers in that workshop on cultural preservation and IP mentioned , traditional medicines are so interconnected with Spiritual traditions and protocols, disconnecting parts , from the whole , can lead to problems .

1. If some of the traditional protocols around traditional medicines are going to be modifed to allow commercial development , who should decide this ?

Many tribal councils are acussed of corruption . I am not suggesting this is a problem in your area specificly, but in many places there are problems , like votes being bought with drugs and alcohol . I have heard of instances of good Elders who want to clean things up ,so they get involved in politics and after a couple months , and temptations of money , they too became corrupted .  Considering all this , and this is reality , I am really uneasy with the idea of a possibly corrupt tribal council , having the power to decide to market something , that traditional protocols say should not be bought and
sold . 

Another concern is ,traditional people are often very reluctant to make a direct criticism . In Rupert
Ross's book " Dancing with a Ghost" talks about how Cree parents often get accused of neglecting their kids, because they won't tell them to come in after a certain time of night,  or to get up in the morning to go to school, or even not to do drugs , because there is such strong cultural prohibitions about interfering with another persons choices or giving unasked for advice . There was one story of a Cree woman who sat in the next room while her son committed suicide , but she didn't call 911 , because that would be interfering in his choices .

2.Considering this I am wondering what kind of community process would be in place , to assure that everyone with any concerns about commercializing a sensitve part of the culture , would speak out on this ?

3.You say the Chief of the FSIN was supportive of your plans , but i am not clear if you mean the Chief of the FSIN specifically supported creating a marketing system to encourge the commercialization of traditional medicines ?

From what was said at the 2005 workhop on cultural presevation, there was many concerns about the effect of commercialization on culture , and concerns about biopiracy were mentioned , but no one
mentioned wanting to actively pursue commercializing traditional medicines themselves , as you appear to have already been doing.
Reply #4
Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations
Quote
"Vice Chief Wapass concluded his remarks by saying that in seeking to protect their traditional knowledge, First Nations people were not seeking to make money. Rather, First Nations people were trying to protect and preserve what they have, but were slowly losing."
and ;

( Chief Adams )
Quote
"There is also concern that this knowledge may be sold by some First Nations people for personal gain. He noted that there was a lot of pressure on First Nations people to promote their culture, art, traditional ways, traditional medicines and medicinal practices."
Apparently just being a First Nations person does not automatically mean it's OK to market the culture.

4.As a general question , what kind of authorization or community process should Native people have gone through , if they are using their Peoples IP in a commercial endevour ?

5.Should any Indian , or group of Indians , be able to decide to utilize or market collectively owned cultural property , in a way that other users might feel degrades the non monetary value of this cultural property ?

6.If some feel this IP , is culturally sensitive , how would a community go about coming to an agreement about what should be marketed and what shouldn't be ?

7.What about a situation where there is not a consensus about what is a culturally sensitve product ? How can something like that be decided ? Who should be listened to ? Who has a right to decide ?

8.Is there a way the uninformed non native public , who will be the customers , can assure themselves the proper consultation process has taken place , before supporting these cultural business ventures ?

9.Who selected you as a spokes person to NGOs and the UN on the IP rights of Canadas First Nations ? Did you just see a need and take this on yourself ? Do you officially speak about intellecual property rights on behalf of the Meadow Lake Tribal Council or some other First Nations ? 

Believe it or not I really hate arguing ... Just, I think these are important questions .  Like I said ,most of what you are doing looks very positive , and I hope my concerns are unfounded , and just that I am lacking all the information . Sorry about using numbers again . I am hopping they help the specific questions not get lost in my other comments . I'm also sorry my posts tend to be so long ... The issues seem so complex , and all the parts are important .
Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: Ric_Richardson on May 06, 2007, 11:14:32 pm
Tansi;
M. Porcupine-First I would like to know how you have determined that we have been selling Traditional Medicines, when the website you refer to only speaks of our work at developing an interest, internationally in the importance of preserving our Traditional ways and developing marketing opportunities for eco-tourism and Non Timber Forest Products?

As to our own business, we do promote cultural exchanges, both with our own people and with Europeans.  I must admit that most of our contracts are with Aboriginal groups and incorporate Talking Circles, in our efforts to educate on the ways of developing Respectful dialogue, which helps in healing old wounds, especially around cross cultural issues. 

We have found that many of the plants, used by our own people for Medicines, are also used Traditionally, by other Cultures, in the Boreal regions of the world.  We have met with and hosted many people, in the Naturopathic and Herbal Practices, from different countries, and have found many similarities, in the "old" knowledge of many places such as Germany and Russia. 

You seem to have a real problem with Aboriginal people making a living, financially, from the use of our Traditional and Cultural Knowledge.  Whether comparing Non Timber Forest Products to drug dealing, or alluding to our politicians, who support this form of industry development, as being corrupt, I find your assumptions to be very disrespectful. 

It may be that you just have a low opinion of Cree Culture, since you refer to our women as not caring if our youth commit suicide.  As both my wife and I have extensively worked with Suicide Intervention and in assessment of conditions leading to this form of decision, by too many of our youth, I can attest to the fact that our community, in general, takes this very seriously and are working to deal with some of the factors that may lead to this.  One factor that continually comes up is that of disconnection from Cultural knowledge and Strength, which is one of the areas that we hope to help to heal, in developing a Non Timber Forest Product industry.

You also seem to have a problem with my Respecting the privacy of those we speak and meet with.  Probably for many of the same reasons that some people use "internet names" when they discuss anything on internet forums, I also choose not to identify Elders and groups that we meet with, until such time as we have further developed our concepts in NTFP industry development.  Even at that time, I cannot imagine some of our contacts to be willing to have their names in the public domain.  I can Respect this, and cannot understand why you, who may not be using your own legal name, in this forum, cannot.

We have sent copies of the Strategic Plan, to a variety of agencies, organizations, educational facilities, and Aboriginal organizations, in attempts to ensure that all of the issues have been considered.  As well, we discuss this with many of the Elders, and those in the Medicine Circle, in our region.  One of the reasons that we did not just create a business around NTFP's is that we want to ensure that protections are in place, including Intellectual Property Rights and local and regional controls over which plants, from our region and Cultures are chosen for entry into the market.  We do know that many of these, are already being marketed, by non-native businesses, but want to do this properly and with Respect.  In this way, we hope to ensure that our Traditional Medicines are available to our future generations and that the Traditional Knowledge is Honoured.

I came to this forum, as a way of learning and sharing.  Unfortunately, I had hoped to find Respectful dialogue.

Ekosi
Ric



Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: Moma_porcupine on May 07, 2007, 01:12:16 am
Ric
Quote
I would like to know how you have determined that we have been selling Traditional Medicines,

It would seem to be an obivous conclusion when websites (http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:1nmRFyxZmC0J:www.shbba.sk.ca/in-house_archived/2004_february.pdf+%22Ric+richardson%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=ca)
such as this one say "SHBBA Vice-President Markets Traditional Medicines abroad " an you are that vice president , or when you yourself say (http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:hVLuPl_e7BgJ:www.taigarescue.org/_v3/design/print.php%3Fview%3Dtaiga_news%26tn_ID%3D1035+.taiga+rescue+%22Ric+Richardson%22+tourism&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2)
"Recently, we have travelled to Germany and Switzerland to promote aboriginal eco-tourism and traditional medicine" and you have a business that involves teaching about traditional plant mecicines.

Reading this , who wouldn't conclude you were marketing traditional medicine ?

Ric
Quote
You seem to have a real problem with Aboriginal people making a living, financially, from the use of our Traditional and Cultural Knowledge.
Yes i have a real problem with individuals setting up ways to market parts of traditional knowledge BUT ONLY IF there are some Elders or traditional people who feel that the culture will be damaged by the proposed commercialization .

Why are you suprised by that Ric ? This forum isn't a forum discussing marketing stratagies for Traditional Medicine . In case you haven't noticed , it is mainly about protecting traditions form commercialization . Part of this is making sure the true internal authority of tribes and First Nations is recognized and respected . In my opinion , this internal authority cannot be a single individual who takes it upon themselves to decide these things privately .

Ric
Quote
Whether comparing Non Timber Forest Products to drug dealing,
I already explained the comparison was to how impossible it was to stop people making money , when there is an opprotunity to do this . You seem to be intentionally bending my words to mean something I was not saying .

Ric
Quote
or alluding to our politicians, who support this form of industry development, as being corrupt,

What I said is some tribal councils are accused of corruption , and I have concerns if decisions about  changing a traditional protocol to allow commercialization , is in the hands of a tribal council that traditional people say is corrupt. I have also known some completely honest and truely inspirational traditional leaders who also serve as political leaders  , but they don't always get elected the next time around .

Ric
Quote
I find your assumptions to be very disrespectful.

It seems you really want to discredit me and you twist my words around to sound like I said something disrespectful, which I didn't say. What I did say , was simply intended to be a realistic and respectful discusion of the problems of protecting sensitive cultural traditions from exploitation .

Ric
Quote
It may be that you just have a low opinion of Cree Culture, since you refer to our women as not caring if our youth commit suicide.

I didn't say this woman Rupert Ross wrote about didn't care . I never even implied that . As I remember Mr Ross's account of this situation , she was completely devastated . Rupert Ross was trying to understand why she had behaved as she had , when she obviously cared very much. ,The book was recomended to me by a Native person who works in crisis intervention for their tribe  , and it is not at all disrespectful of Cree people or their ways .

Again you try and draw attention away from the principaled discussion I am attempting to have with you , by making off the wall suggestions about my motives .

Ric
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You also seem to have a problem with my Respecting the privacy of those we speak and meet with.

Again I really don't see why being involved in a public consultation processs about the protection or commercialization of traditional knowledge in your area would have to do with anyone keeping their identity private .

You really seem to have a problem understanding that it is impossible to protect Native culture and IP if anyone of Native descent can market potentially sensitive parts of the culture and IP , with no verifiable authorization .

Ric
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I came to this forum, as a way of learning and sharing.  Unfortunately, I had hoped to find Respectful dialogue.

Well it looks like you found it . I am not sure why that would be unfortunate . I am really trying to be respectful and acknowledge the positive aspects of what you are doing. Yes I disagree with marketing some parts of traditional culture , and if you are involved in marketing those parts i am going to disagree with you . So what ... ?  Disagreeing with you isn't being disrespectful . And except for your stance on the sale of sweetgrass ,I am not even sure what you are up to , or if I do disagree with you .   

I don't think asking questions is being disrespectful .   

I don't feel I can do much more than that .

Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: Ric_Richardson on May 07, 2007, 01:57:20 am
Tansi;

My understanding of Culture, is that it is very much alive.  If things were only to be done, as they were in pre-contact times, it would be known as History.

In our Culture, we have had to learn that there are numerous changes to the way that the environment and Traditional Knowledge were used.  In our immediate area, there are timber operations, including pulp mills, sawmills and an Oriented Strand Board plant, which use over 4 million cubic metres of wood, annually.  As well, the northern part of Saskatchewan is the world's largest producer of mined uranium.  Currently, oil and gas developments are in the works to provide mostly US markets with oil from one of the most environmentally destructive ways of production.

We have recognized that many of the "other" plants that live in the forest are not being Respected, when industry comes to town.  We also know that these often are very valuable Traditionallly used plants, with a variety of uses for food and Medicine.

At the same time as billions of dollars worth of resources are taken from our Traditional territories, the majority population (Aboriginal) suffers from over 60% unemployment and extreme levels of poverty.  We also suffer from over double the national average for Cancer and extreme levels of Diabetes.  It is debateable whether the Cancer or Diabetes is related to poverty, or the industrial use of our lands. 

Over the years, our Traditional and Cultural knowledge has been suppressed and distorted.  One of the distortions that I currently hear of, is that we should not be able to sell anything related to Traditional Knowledge, for money, because money is not Tradtional.  As our Culture is alive, we have adapted to the use of money, in our daily lives and many of us work toward finding ways of incorporating Heritage, History, Tradition and Culture, into modern economic initiatives, which may help provide a better standard of living for our residents.

At this time of year, we are harvesting Black Poplar buds, for use in skin Medicine.  There are also non-native industries who are employing poor Natives, to pick these, for sale in bulk, since they are used commercially, in various cosmetics.  Throughout the year, there will be many of our Traditionally used plants harvested, with very limited benefits to local stakeholders.  As well, our people do not have a mechanism for ensuring that plants picked for commercial use, have any controls placed on them, by Traditional land users, or that Intellectual Property Rights are Respected. 

On another note, I am no longer associated with the Sask. Home Based Business Association, of which I was formerly the Vice President of, although I still hold elected office with Keyano Local #5 of the Metis Nation Saskatchewan, and am a member of the Northern Saskatchewan Trappers Association, as well as the National Aboriginal Veterans Association.

You seem to want to make it look like Rose and I are working alone, but if you were aware of the situation in Saskatchewan, other than just what is on the internet, you would likely find that we have the support of some very well Respected people, including Elders, politicians (both Native and non-native) the news media and others.  Here, Aboriginal issues and events are not always posted on the internet.

When we went to England, to promote NTFP's at the Chelsea Flower Show www.taigarescue.org/chelsea we went with two letters of introduction.  One was from the Chief and Council of the First Nation, where my grandfather was from, the other was from our province's Lieutenant Governor (the Queen's representative in Saskatchewan.)  These letters were by way of introducing us to His Royal Highness, Prince Charles, when we made a presentation at his St. James Place residence.  We wouldn't have been Honoured with that, if we were acting alone, as you have stated.

We also are in continuous contact with leaders in our Aboriginal community and with Elders and Traditional land users, who guide us, in our efforts, as I have constantly stated.

Ric

Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: coffee_drinker on May 07, 2007, 12:42:16 pm
Tell me to shut up if I'm wrong here. I'm pretty simple minded compared to most in here but my two cents on this subject.  Here's Ric in here, who is Indian, he's working closely with his elders and community to help his tribe find ways to conserve their timber and native plants, to make positive contributions and changes for his tribe that perhaps in the future will protect what they have from the likes of people like Exxon. I have not heard one person mention Exxon which has earned a place on survival internations top 10 list of corporate violators of native rights.  Between the El Cerrejo mine that has brought enviromental and culture devastation to the Wayau Indians, the oil spills in Alaska and other mining sites they have proposed next to many other native communitites included Wisconsin.
Then you have water companies up in michigan that have devasted the streams on Chippawa land. How many of you drink bottle water? Next time you go reach for a bottle of water at your local store research who owns that water company and find out where they are getting their water supply from.  I don't see anyone complaining about what most indians look at being sacred and that is "water". The devastation being created by major corporations to one of the most sacred things all of us have, and instead it seems to be side tracked to discuss sacred plants that are being managed in a respectful way, by indian people.
Sorry folks seems like a lot of over analyzing on something that is minor compared to who is really causing the devestation to the culture and land. Threats to native cultures are inseperable from enviromental threats.
Please don't ask me for numbers or resources, like I said I'm simple minded.
Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: Moma_porcupine on May 07, 2007, 02:20:51 pm
Coffee drinker
If you really think finding alternative commercial uses for some of the culturally sensitive Native plants in Ric's area , is the only way of creating an economy , that isn't relying on large scale mining and logging  , and if you really believe that the economic activity generated by marketing a few contraversial "products ", can replace the money people make in these enviromentally damaging industries , and marketing these will put an end to the destructive logging and mining , I agree with you .

But I think there are many non contraversial products that could be developed , so there is many other ways . I also doubt the raw resources those big companies are after, will go out of demand any time soon , so I would guess the big companies are still going to go in there and do their damage,  whether people are making some money harvesting traditional medicines or not  .

It seems to me that once you get into thinking it is OK to commercialize some parts of traditional culture that some Elders say shouldn't be commercialized , you have made some very important decisions . You've decided some Spiritual traditions are less important than others , and you have decided that if some Elders or traditional people don't agree with something being commercialized it is Ok to ignore them . If it is left to individual opinion and desire ,it is just a matter of time before someone else comes along , and decides it is OK to commercialize the next part of traditions Elders say should not be commercialized .   

As I say , I am not sure what it is Ric is doing , or if he has the undivided support of Elders in his area as he claims . There doesn't seem to be any way of verifying this , if all the consultation has been private . Whatever Ric's specific situation may , or may not be , generally speaking , if there are Elders who say something shouldn't be commercially developed , those are the Elders I will listen to and support . I don't see how pretending those Elders don't exist , and never existed , is in any way "respectful" .

I also think , in principal , that people who are planing to commercialize First Nations IP should have a clear and publicly verifiable mandate to do so , from the Aboriginal community . I don't think just taking peoples word for it that they have this authorization is a practical option .

The questions and problems seem obvious to me , but if I am the only person who is concerned ,
there isn't much more I can do , or should do  ...  Someone else can deal with this if they have concerns . Or not .
Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: weheli on May 08, 2007, 03:01:14 am
" We are all children of our Mother Earth, lets love and care about our Mother"
quote ;Munkhbayar
A good article on environmental activists

http://www.indiancountry.com:80/content.cfm?id=1096414989&na=2551
     
                                                                              Weheli
Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: coffee_drinker on May 08, 2007, 03:58:42 pm
As outsiders, it is not up to you, I and any others to be making judgement calls on how a Indian community chooses to preserve their lands and resources. Instead we should lend support to their causes in helping preserve what is sacred to them.
I was taught be elders, not only are plants sacred, but so is water, rocks, air and all that is created.
The spectrum of what is sacred is much larger than a specific plant or two. To view it this way is having shudders on our eyes and not seeing the whole picture as it was meant to be seen.
That is like living in one state and going to another state to vote because I don't like what the other state is doing.
Many Indian communities have dealt with their water supplies poisoned, their eco balance shifted due to stripping of their lands. Many have been chased off their lands and in some cases even killed by these outsiders.
So I have to ask myself this question, is a plant that elders tell me is sacred, is it still sacred if it has been poisoned by these outsiders. I would have to answer myself with a no.
A metaphor I use for myself, how do you get rid of a weed? Do you pull it at the base or  dig down and pull it from the roots? There are many weeds among the sacred.
Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: Ric_Richardson on May 08, 2007, 04:36:39 pm
Tansi;

I have attempted to relate how Culture is in every part of our life, not just in our attendance at Ceremony or able to be separated from other activities, in our lives.  The selective approach to what is considered Sacred, is only one area of this.

Tomorrow, I will leave to attend an international conference related to Non Timber Forest Products.  I will be networking with people who have used this approach to creating benefits from NTFP products, from many regions of the world.

For those who wish to only be argumentative, nothing that Aboriginal people do to earn a living, using money will satisfy, but we will work at ensuring that Aboriginal people are represented in excercising control of which plants, from our region are incorporated into this form of socio-economic initiative as well as being in a position in which we will be the ones to benefit from this activity.

I will advise of what I learn, when I return.

Ric




Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: Moma_porcupine on May 11, 2007, 02:38:49 pm
Obviously an outsider should not tell a Native community what to do , within their own traditional territory. Even if there are divisions within a community it seems best left to the community to sort out , as long as the activities remain within the traditional territory of that community .

But it gets more complicated when shared cultural images , songs , ceremonies or items that are sensitive , are marketed in communities or in adjoining territiories where a substantial number of Native people , with the same cultural practices , feel this is offensive.   

I found an article about Aboriginal Cultural Tourism which talks about the process of community consultation, and although this is about IP and tourism , the discussions about community consultation seem applicable to other situations .

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:oxHLezBpvwYJ:www.patrimoinecanadien.gc.ca/documents/fpt/publications/pdfs
/CrossCulturalUnderstanding_e.pdf+Elders+%22cultural+tourism%22+Aboriginal+Canada&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=ca (http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:oxHLezBpvwYJ:www.patrimoinecanadien.gc.ca/documents/fpt/publications/pdfs
/CrossCulturalUnderstanding_e.pdf+Elders+%22cultural+tourism%22+Aboriginal+Canada&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=ca)

Determining Community Boundaries
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All reports indicate that one of the most important steps to ensuring long-term sustainability of the industry with the least impact on the community and culture being portrayed is to determine in advance what each community is willing to share with visitors. Protect what is sacred. A community meeting, organized by the cultural centre or band office, can bring concerns out in the open. If the local community is strongly opposed to sharing a sacred site with the public, or does not feel comfortable with tourists wandering around the village, this needs to be discussed at the beginning. A plan for protecting certain heritage sites, or restricting access to certain parts of the community will ease the fears of wary members (Hager, 2004).

Of course, with Aboriginal communities across Canada, this consultation must include the keepers of our culture, the elders, in order to benefit future generations (con...)
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3.3 Community Consultation and Support
One of the most difficult elements of ACT is that it portrays and shares something that does not
belong to any one person or organization the culture belongs to all the people.
To be successful in both the development and the delivery of ACT, it is integral that the community be consulted. Within the AC, a number of community consultation processes were utilized to gain support, receive guidance on the programs and messaging, as well as create a feeling of ownership through the process.
However, one important element tied all of them together- all AC members had consulted the
community and then accepted the boundaries that were established on what could be shared
with the visitors and what was to remain sacred to the community. In all cases, the elders of the community were engaged in the process to set the direction of what could be shared in the context of tourism. (con.. )
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The ways in which the communities were consulted on the content and delivery of the cultural message was as diverse as the communities themselves - proving that there is no cookie cutter approach that can be implemented in all Aboriginal communities. Some organizations began with informal elders circles and focus groups while others emphasized that it was integral to tie into the community planning process. (con... )

Quote
However, it can be difficult to gain consensus through a community consultation process, as all elders do not agree on what is sacred and what can be shared. In some regions, the ACT sites are developed on sacred lands and the programming may share elements of sacred teachings
and ceremony, while other communities have been asked by the elders to exclude all ceremonial and spiritual elements from the programming. (con ...)
(my bold )
-------------------
As this article mentions , often within a community there is disagreement on what it is OK to commercialize .

An example of these conflicts is mentioned in the Aboriginal Cultural Tourism project below ,that was funded by the Canadian Government in New Brunswick
(This is a 152 page thesis , and takes forever to load )

http://www.collectionscanada.ca/obj/s4/f2/dsk1/tape10/PQDD_0016/MQ47680.pdf (http://www.collectionscanada.ca/obj/s4/f2/dsk1/tape10/PQDD_0016/MQ47680.pdf)

"Seeds Blossoms and in Bloom":Explorations of identity and plurality of meanings in growth of cultural tourism and the Aboriginal Heritage Gardens " by Dorthy Hache'

Page 78

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A notable example of the points of diversity of sentiments in development is the simultaneous collision and convergence in the relationship between political leaders on reserves and traditionalists . They are often at odds . Traditionalists are prone to label band councils as "creatures of the imperialists and elected councillers as patsies for a system that undermines the old ways when everyone had a say on every issue " ( Cayo 1997 , July 5 )

This difference comes out occasionally in my interviews but the denigeration is not based on chief and councils political identity and role in the community ; rather , the concerns are whether  the planners and political leaders will respect "tradition" in their development initiatives . Many political leaders are more concerned with deficit control and economic issues (con..)

Page 97

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A final area of contention , and perhaps one of the most divisive I have observed thus far is the whole question of whether spiritual  items can be bought and sold . This debate is inherent in the commodification of culture but it implicates the heritage Garden directly since it's main feature and market strength is the wide array of pharmacopeia traditionally used by the Mi'kmaw . It is no coincidence that the product being offered by the Heritage Garden is concurrent with an increased interest in herbology and homeopathic medicines by both scientists and lay people . Not only is there an enviromental challenge in the growth and use of these herbs and natural medicinal plants but the demand for these products is both socio-economic and spiritual . It was noted earlier that divisions exists between Mi'kmaq traditionalists and politicians and it is on this very issue of whether one can sell traditional medicine or not that their main differences occur . Selling sweetgrass is considereded taboo by many traditionalists but it is happening and inevitible divisions result . (con ..)
-------------------
As I understand it , ownership means people have a right to benifit from , and protect what is owned, and make the choices how this will be managed to insure sustained benifits . Native culture is owned collectively and also by future generations .

What sort of community process needs to occur to make sure all the owners are represented in the decision making process ?

If there is not a consensus within the Native community about how to protect culture , who gets to choose ?

Who's choice should be given more weight, the choice of people wanting to make money , or the choice of people who are distressed to see something they hold Sacred reduced to a commercial commoditiy and who are concerned for cultultural preservation ?

These are important questions and they have not been answered . I don't think the people who ask these questions should be discredited as "just wanting to agrue " .

It would probably be a more constructive discussion , if we could stay with general principals.
Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: Ric_Richardson on May 13, 2007, 09:47:35 pm
Tansi;

Having just attended an international conference, entitled "Tradition to Technology" I was able to ensure that the modern nutraceutical industry and pharmaclogical industry is aware of the need to address Intellectual Property Rights concerns, when they work toward including Traditionally used plants, in modern methods of production of a variety of products.

Only one of the participating businesses have included this, in their work, in Alaska.  Researchers, from a number of Universities, also agreed that there must be meaningful co-operation with Aboriginal people, in order to be able to more fully understand the Traditional uses of a variety of plants, including blueberries, in their research into finding ways of incorporating this knowledge, into creating new products for the market place.

Since there is a great deal of work being done, by industry, to incorporate Traditionally used plants, from the Traditional territories of numerous Aboriginal people, this will be interesting to watch.  I am hoping that there will be Aboriginal people and businesses, involved in this, in order to be able to share in the benefits of the rapidly growing market demands on natural products and nutraceuticals.

I was able to speak at length, with two other Aboriginal participants, also from Saskatchewan, who attended.  We all agreed that this industrial use of plants, from our Cultures, is going to continue and that Aboriginal people must become proactive, in ensuring that we are included in these efforts, in order to address various Cultural considerations, including Intellectual Property Rights.

Ric
Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: frederica on May 13, 2007, 11:05:37 pm
Sounds good. These plants have been in use for a long time by non-Indian. It's time the Nations are included. frederica
Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: Ric_Richardson on May 15, 2007, 03:28:29 pm
Tansi;

During the past week,as I attended many workshops related to research and development in the Nutraceutical and Pharmaceutical fields, incorporating naturally grown and cultivated plants, I was pleased to hear that numerous products, such as blueberries, have been seen to have more health benefits when they are grown naturally, as opposed to being cultivated.

While I was one of a very few people, in attendance, who did not have a Ph.d, I felt that my concerns were Respectfully heard and taken into consideration, by the many research scientists and business people, also in attendance.  It was made very clear that these industries will continue to work with many of the plants that our people used Traditionally, in many ways related to health and healing.

I continue to believe that, especially since our plants are going to continue to be used, in business applications, we have the opportunity to more fully participate in co-operative efforts to ensure that our Cultural knowledge, Traditional values and Intellectual Property Rights are incorporated into modern developments.

Ric

 

Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: weheli on May 15, 2007, 04:00:44 pm
From Spokane:

http://www.indiancountry.com:80/content.cfm?id=1096414961&na=2551

                                                                             Weheli
Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: Ric_Richardson on May 15, 2007, 05:49:04 pm
Tansi;

Thank you for the above article from "Indian Country", Weheli.  This is one positive example of what we are working toward.

My wife, an educator, always says that a full belly is a prerequisite for learning, so she has worked at supporting food programs in the First Nation schools, where she works.  We have recognized the socio-economic impacts of poverty and exclusion in many of our region's communities.  By developing businesses and co-operatives, using Traditional knowledge and plants that are found in our region, we believe that we will be able to involve Traditional land users in creating economic benefits, using their Traditional knowledge and understanding of Cultural sensitivity, as well.

From May 30-June 1, 2007, there will be a "North American Indigenous Food Symposium," in Saskatoon, Sask, which will also address issues related to IP Rights and how we can protect and preserve our Traditional foods, while finding ways of sharing them with others.

Ric



Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: debbieredbear on May 15, 2007, 05:56:45 pm
Ric,

Have you seen this site on traditional foods and medicines?

http://www.cwis.org

You can sign up for their email newsletter. The man behind it is Cowlitz and I have met him. He is great! His name is Rudy Ryser. The woman behind the site, Dr.Leslie Korn, is his wife.
Title: Re: 'Who Owns Native Culture?"
Post by: Ric_Richardson on May 15, 2007, 08:00:54 pm
Tansi;

Thank you, Debbie!  I have registered for the newsletter, which I am sure will be a welcome addition to our rapidly growing "Library."

It was good to see the late George Manuel Honoured in the website, as he was instrumental in the formation of the World Council of Indigenous Peoples, when he was Chief of the Neskonlith First Nation, in B.C..

I was fortunate to have been involved, when a representative of the Aborigine people of Australia, came to Neskonlith to Honour his memory.

Ric