Author Topic: Wm Fredrick Posey AKA Turtle Heart - "Ojibwe Indian Priest" living in Italy  (Read 55029 times)

Offline Camilla

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Good morning everybody.

The Lakota members of the Forum will find here Words belonging to their Ways: sorry for this.
These Words are written in the below indicated links, so I couldn't do anything but write them in the same way, so that you can know what's going on.

This person ("Turtle Heart") has been living in Italy since 2003: he lives in Pantelleria, a small island South West of Sicily.
He says he is from the Ojibwai Nation, he advertises himself as an artist and a "Indian Priest". He leads Ceremonies. On the internet there are many websites about him and telephone numbers.

Here below please find the link to the introduction in English he makes about himself:
http://knol.google.com/k/turtle-heart#

Here below there is his personal number, the advertising goes (translated from Italian):
"If you like to talk personally to Turtle Heart (in english)": Cell Phone: (01139) 329.834.2157

Here below is a link advertising about a Ceremony (in Italian): please, find the English translation below the link, in blue (capital letters are used as they are used in Italian, they are not used where the Italian version do not use them):
http://www.spiritual.it/appuntamenti-e-corsi/cerimonia-inipi-capanna-sudatoria-brturtle-heart-sacerdote-della-pipa-sacra,1,103762

Event - Shamanism
Inipi Ceremony (sweat lodge)- Turtle Heart- Priest of the Sacre Pipe
The Inipi Ceremony is the Purification Rite, Sacre Place of the Spirit, Place for Prayer and Healing.
Turtle Heart, medicine man, north american native from the Ojibwe tribe, is a unique representative of his kind, keeper and spokeperson for the ancient ceremonial rites, and Sacre Pipe teachings.
He cooperates with professors of some american Universities, meditation centres, political and social leaders and is in touch with other religious leaders such as Dalai Lama from Tibet.
He is an international spokeperson for the international disclosure of the tribal ceremonial rites, a project and a wow he is indissolubly tied to, since this culture (meaning the Indian culture) is getting lost, and together with it many teachings are getting lost, teaching which could improve individuals' life and therefore all human beings' life


Here below is the link to another nuage website he is involved with:
http://www.spaziofatato.net/recturtleheart.htm

And eventually here is a telephone number that it is possible to call to have information.
The advertising goes:

If you like to have contacts in Milan (Parabiago) where Turtle Hearts periodically goes and holds ceremonies you can talk to Carlo Raimondi, mobile phone: (01139) 320.076.1933

Well, I just called: the phone works.
They told Turtle Heart usually goes to Milan (up in the North of Italy) twice a year, in June and September and leads Ceremonies on the Equinoxes, because these are the times when "balance is at its best".
The Ceremonies are Sweats and so called "Dream Ceremonies" where he sings all the night along and people, through their dreams, can find the "real" themselves.
Costs: 120.00 Euro (155.00 USD at today exchange rate) for a whole week end (Saturday and Sunday) for food, lodging and reimbursement for his travelling expenses.

That's all so far

Camilla

P.S. fraud or exploiter......
[just changed title]
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 10:57:58 pm by educatedindian »
Camilla

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Turtle Heart - "Ojibwe Indian Priest" living in Italy
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2010, 06:08:27 pm »
It's a strange choice of names. There used to be a very prominent fraud calling herself Turtle Heart, a blond white woman leading a fake environmentalist cult that tried to shut down every Native activist site they could, including NAFPS.

Sites of his.
http://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/sacredpipe
http://www.blogger.com/profile/09774117083029217809

http://americanindianastrology.blogspot.com/

Note that there's no such thing as Native astrology, unless you're talking about Mayan or Aztec. Even then it doesn't resemble European astrology with its zodiac and so on.

http://www.aicap.org/index2.html

Right there on the front is a prominent link to an essay where he admits ceremony selling and goes into a rambling defense of it. Basically, "the Dalai Lama and Catholic Church do it, why can't I? I need money."

And this is probably the strangest of his pages. A website calling for No Parole for Peltier.
http://wwwnoparolepeltiercom-justice.blogspot.com/

On that last site he says his name is Ed Wood. Don;t know if that's a joke, since it's the same name of notoriously bad film maker. He could very well be Ojibwe. But as for knowing ceremony, it's pretty clear if he does he's more than happy to alter it or sell it to make money.

Re: Turtle Heart - "Ojibwe Indian Priest" living in Italy
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2010, 06:11:20 pm »
The Dalai Lama doesn't sell ceremony.
press the little black on silver arrow Music, 1) Bob Pietkivitch Buddha Feet http://www.4shared.com/file/114179563/3697e436/BuddhaFeet.html

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Turtle Heart - "Ojibwe Indian Priest" living in Italy
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2010, 06:20:48 pm »
I had the same reaction to the "Ed Wood" name. But it looks to me like this "Turtle Heart" just "follows" Ed Woods' blog. (link to Woods' blog in "Blogs I Follow" category on "Turtle Heart"s profile: http://www.blogger.com/profile/09774117083029217809)

As far as I know, Ed Woods is the guy who runs this website: http://www.noparolepeltier.com/

When Peltier's parole hearing was coming up last year, Woods called in to every Peltier-related radio show he could find, to argue against paroling Leonard. He even called in to NDN shows that were not discussing Leonard. Among some of the hosts it became a running joke that even if it wasn't a popular show that day, they knew that at least Ed would always show up to rant about Leonard. Woods is very dedicated to keeping Peltier in prison. IIRC, Woods said he is a former or current FBI agent.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 12:26:47 am by Kathryn »

Offline Turtle Heart

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Re: Turtle Heart - "Ojibwe Indian Priest" living in Italy
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2013, 04:47:16 pm »
Beast regards to this group.

I am the subject of this little collection of comments, so I thought I would introduce myself.

Not one of you knows me at all, no one here has participated in my work or even been introduced to me.

First of all, Ed Woods is a retired FBI Agent In Charge, who was the one in charge of the AIM occupation of Wounded Knee in 1975, and lead the team who investigated and arrested leonard peltier. I support his work to keep peltier in prison. Along with tens of this ands of American Indians and courts and law enforcement people, we all believe peltier is guilty of murder and that he uses scams and lies to get people to send him money. It is amusing that none of you believe peltier is a liar of a fake. I absolutely do.

My father was an Ojibwe man, my mother Catabwa and Welsh. I support myself as an artist, doing paintings and sculpture and photography. I have had a transparent web site since the first days of the www, my work being archived in the permanent collection of the smithsonian in 1995.

For some years now, after 25 years of study, I have started carrying a sacred bundle around the earth. i was asked to do this by my tribal elders and teachers, who are the one who created this sacred bundle. It is a historic and sacred inter-tribal bundle. There are a group of ceremonies attached to this bundle for which I am responsible. Some of these ceremonies can be shared with people of the modern world, many of them cannot and are not. The money that comes from these ceremonies is to cover travel and food expenses only, always has been. On that measure, I have never made what you call "a profit", as most of my ceremonies end up costing me from ten to 50 per cent more than I have ever collected. I have never met an American Indian trying to share teachings with the world who has made a profit from this work. Ever.

Many tribal elders believe more American Indians need to have a seat at the tables of the world…participate and share. This is a natural and healthy desire. I have made presentations to the United Nations, leaders of world religions, and free and interested people all over the world. This work has two goals, one is to share with the world, let them know and see and hear the desires and hopes of our elders and our best ideas. I try always to do this work with respect. The other purpose is to gather prayers and songs and mystery life ceremonies to help everybody. This work is well documented and its results and experiences has been shared with tribal elders all over the USA.

I pay for my life as an artist. Selling art in Italy is very slow and not easy. So I am not in any ways a rich person. For most ceremonies, I pay myself, from my pocket, this has been true for many years and is true now.

I am a Wabeeno, a keeper of sacred pipes, sacred fires, names, dreams and what we call correction ceremonies, which includes the sweat lodge. I have den working in this way for more than 30 years at this point. I have a good relation with my tribal elders. These days I am an older man and most of my old teachers and elders have passed away.

I keep a small sacred morning tobacco fire, which is open without charge, for all people to visit the island and use it.

I am not a famous or rich person and have no interest in money or fame. I work with very small groups, usually less than ten. Over the years I have made at least three thousand ceremonies with American Indians and people from every race and culture on this mother earth. I was born into the River Otter clan of the Ahnishinabeg Aneeg, my Grandfather was a Mide-Wian at the sixth degree. I have been educated by many elders, and education I paid for myself over many years. I believe in the survival, the beauty and the power of the old Indians, of our sacred prayers, of our reasonability to work for peace and balance for everyone, everywhere at all times.

www.sacredpipe.org is my long time web site, I was one of the first people to have a web site, I was there at the very beginning making open communication a part of my work.

I do not have anything to say against the very poorly informed opinions expressed here. I am a little surprised that you all allow yourselves to be distracted with such flimsy evidence and to assume everyone must be some sort of criminal. Of course, this is a common problem among American Indians, there is a lit of anger and suspicion and resentment. It is very common to hear other American Indians talking bad about each other. I would encourage you to have some faith that some American Indians might work with the permission and under the direction of tribal grandfathers and tribal grandmothers to try and do good things in this life. I have devoted my whole life to understanding and practicing this idea. I try as best I can to live a good life and walk in balance with my relations. I hope you will do the same. It might also be useful to be better informed. There are so many errors in the comments here, it would take probably forever to correct them one by one. Otherwise, have at it and project and act out and name names. In the end I believe absolutely that each person has the power to recognize the truth when they are face to face with it. I deal in a face to face world and not in speculation where the imagination is allowed to just run unchecked. There is a difference between seeking and understanding the truth and just guessing and making things up.


Mymhenteqhous Nagamowin Gashk'ewizi
Ojibway Artist
aka Turtle Heart

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Turtle Heart - "Ojibwe Indian Priest" living in Italy
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2013, 03:06:20 am »
Hello, and glad you are willing to discuss. We always welcome more information that can clear these matters up.

I'm deeply skeptical of most of what you say. Most of it resembles what we've seen many times before.

You claim to be Wabeno. That movement apparently died out about a century ago.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Un5uxow5c-UC&pg=PA191&lpg=PA191&dq=wabeno+ojibwe&source=bl&ots=OXm24Pmgkr&sig=zLUfaOmQyCtAQUyh86uxOoA-LMI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=NLuJUd38DPPK4APIp4CAAw&ved=0CD8Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=wabeno%20ojibwe&f=false

Or are you claiming it went on in secret all this time? Or do you claim some right to revive it?
It's worth noting traditional Ojibwe elders at that time considered them frauds.

But what you're doing has little resemblance to Wabeno. That was a movement all about medicine for hunting, and displays of being able to hold burning objects with no pain or injury.

It sure doesn't have anything to do with something as crackpot as "native astrology." Do you claim this is Ojibwe practice? or are you imitating that notorious fraud Vincent Laduke/Sun Bear?

Some other claims are so much like we've seen before:

"Traditional elders support me but I won't name them." How convenient.

"I'm from one tribe but I claim to teach another's traditions." In your case you claim to teach the Five Nations.
Surely you're aware they've been Six Nations for centuries now...
And why would Five Nations be meeting in Connecticut?

"I'm doing this for the good of all NDNs, for unity, peace, for all mankind, etc."
How does setting yourself up in Italy and running a little spiritual tourism lodge and website help any of that?

If you've been doing it for 30 years, you haven't gotten very far. Seemingly very few people have ever heard of you, outside of some Italian tourists and, you claim, the unnamed elders who told you to.

There have been NDN spiritual leaders who have done remarkable work without peddling to tourists. Instead they meet with leaders, men such as Thomas Banyacya and Corbin Harney. You're nothing like them.

And the final, very silly, claim:
"You're just jealous."
You're hardly someone any of us would want to be.

Epiphany

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Re: Turtle Heart - "Ojibwe Indian Priest" living in Italy
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2013, 04:52:37 am »
1994: Turtle Heart (Chippewa)
        aka William Posey
        Johannesburg CA  93528
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/alt.native/KMXYBtsJNLk
William Frederic Posey

http://www.aicap.org/donate.html

Epiphany

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Re: Turtle Heart - "Ojibwe Indian Priest" living in Italy
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2013, 05:50:18 am »
https://twitter.com/theSacredPipe

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Ojibwe American Indian artist, author, poet, photographer. Keeper of a sacred pipe bundle called the Four Directions Unity Bundle. Wild and beautiful.

Italy · http://www.aicap.org

Epiphany

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Re: Turtle Heart - "Ojibwe Indian Priest" living in Italy
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2013, 02:41:05 pm »
Quote
Former member of United States Army, serving in Vietnam with the 1st Infantry Division and receipent of Purple Heart.

http://www.aicap.org/shaman-art-gallery/profile.html

From a long blog post "Who Pays for the Sacred?":

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Reasonable people understand there is a relationship between money and the infrastructure of sacred space.

There is a vocal and unrelenting, judgmental minority that pesters society on this subject. This divisive issue distracts and affects the dialogue about tribal ceremonial matters like no other issue. It has lead to accusations and a mythology that American Indian ceremonies are “free”.

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Reservation communities have never had much experience in understanding or talking about money. From the beginning until the present day, money is not well understood by reservation members. Most reservation members do not grow up in the same capitalist system as modern people. It is a different there. Tribal people do not really understand money.

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So, in this argument about “money” put forth from loud-talking American Indians, they are not speaking correctly. This is too bad. It has created a lot of confusion. Learning to express clearly what you really mean is a very important part in communicating with others. Clarity in communication is in fact the foundation of the sacred teachings in question.

http://sacredpipe.blogspot.com/2008/08/who-pays-for-sacred.html

He's been based in Taos, New Mexico too.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 10:24:57 pm by Epiphany »

Epiphany

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Re: Turtle Heart - "Ojibwe Indian Priest" living in Italy
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2013, 06:53:25 pm »
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I recently read a story about myself on an Italian blog. They were wondering why I was so far from the reservation. They seemed personally offended that some American Indian that they don’t know was doing something they know nothing about. Even so, they bill themselves as the protectors of American Indians in Italy. No one asked them to do this.

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Groups like this are relentless and quite numerous. They have zero official status among American Indian people. If one of the subjects of their admonishment articles contacts them they have nothing to say and run and hide their computers. This is like crying wolf or yelling fire before you know what is going on. It may not be criminal press, but it is certainly psychopathic press.

http://sacredpipe.blogspot.com/2008/08/what-place-savage.html

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I have received teachings from more than forty tribal elders over a period of 30 years. When I was a young man I was given Sacred Pipe. As I traveled with Sacred Pipe I was given the education which I now treasure and hope to share with others. My teachers and I agreed that I might in my own way share what we learned together.

My ceremonial work does not come from a political, governmental or ethnic agenda or authority. This bundle of sacred ideas and objects, which are the instruments of my work, was created by the male ancestors of their male children according to the rights of freedom and their own responsibility to do what they hope is right.

http://sacredpipe.blogspot.com/2008/07/turtle-heart-public-record.html

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I am the Keeper and Protector of the Four Directions Unity Bundle. It is perhaps the only American Indian Sacred Bundle in the history of the world which contains so many inter-tribal sacred objects

It contains 18 sacred pipes, from 18 sacred tribal people. It contains eagle feathers, sacred pottery, weavings, carvings, rattles, sacred drums, bones, songs, silences and movements from tribal medicine people, keepers of sacred, protectors of the ancient future.

http://sacredpipe.blogspot.com/2009/11/stolen-land-welcome-to-native-american.html

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Over the last week, we held a name ceremony for one friend who lives in the middle of Italy. Long Arrow (Dreaming) was the name she was given.

http://sacredpipe.blogspot.com/2009/07/name-ceremony-recovering.html

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I recently gave my wife an Eagle Feather. In this ceremony, I will ask her to be the one who touches the people with Eagle Feather.

http://sacredpipe.blogspot.com/2009/04/sweat-lodge-in-parabiago-italy.html

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My father was an Ojibway Indian man. I was never sure about his enrollment status. He hated being an Indian

http://sacredpipe.blogspot.com/2007/08/life-with-sacred-pipe-all-life-long.html

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I am an American Indian religious and spiritual ceremonial teacher.


http://sacredpipe.blogspot.com/2011/07/american-indians-and-palestinians.html
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 08:41:33 pm by Epiphany »

Epiphany

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Re: Turtle Heart - "Ojibwe Indian Priest" living in Italy
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2013, 08:48:04 pm »
August 2007

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My father was an Ojibway Indian man. I was never sure about his enrollment status. He hated being an Indian.

http://sacredpipe.blogspot.com/2007/08/life-with-sacred-pipe-all-life-long.html

Summer 2007

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My father was an enrolled tribal member. I am not my father. He used his credentials as a cudgel to beat my brother and I into submission of his authority, just like the government


pg 19 http://www.aicap.org/volume38/aicap_bloodquantum.pdf


Offline educatedindian

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I received this account from someone saying they are related. It includes allegations of criminal activity. I won't post those without seeing proof. But there is quite a bit about his family that can be checked on. The information about Posey's father is confirmed by SS Death Index.

----------
Hello,

I'm writing because I came across one of your forum webpages and wanted to provide some information. I registered for an account but perhaps a direct email might be better than creating a new account just for this.

I am a family member of the person mentioned in the following post:
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?COLLCC=3605828146&topic=2832.0
 
Turtle Heart is actually Fred Posey...and he is not Native American. Nor as far as I or his daughter have been able to ascertain does he really believe he's Native American.

Let me say early on that I have no ill will towards Fred. Haven't seen him in 20 years, but if he's engaging in some fraud, then based on our family history with him it's best someone knows a bit of truth about him.
 
Beginning around 1979 he began frequenting Native reservations...It was on one of these journeys he decided to find his spirit and become Turtle Heart.

Since that time he has traveled America and the world essentially fleeing from one...or another. I don't have a lot of proof of this but I did try and help his daughter...to find him in the 90s. Every place I called where he had been was an ear full of fraud, evictions, and unpaid bills.

...After reading the post I wanted to contribute some truth. Turtle Heart was born William Fredrick Posey in Orangeburg South Carolina to Paul Woodrow and Mary Hutto Posey. His father was a Baptist preacher who died in 1988, his mother a housemaker who passed away in 2003.  He has never served in the armed services, as one commentor pointed out. Our family heritage from Fred on back is Greek and some French. Although you can trace our ancestory back to the American Revolution, there is not a drop of Native blood.
 
I know he's been in Italy a while selling artwork and I hope this information is useful if he is indeed commiting a fraud on the public. It's a story of 40 years of...deceit. I wish the best for Fred but my gut just says to not take everything he says at face value.
 
I hope this information is of use to your members.

Regards

Epiphany

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Attached is the 1988 obit for Rev. Paul  Posey.

Find a grave memorials:

Rev Paul Woodrow Posey

Birth:    Dec. 28, 1918
Death:    May 24, 1988

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Posey&GSiman=1&GScid=2198490&GRid=19526139&
---

Mary Christine (Hutto) Posey

Birth:    Sep. 13, 1926
Death:    Dec. 14, 2002

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Posey&GSiman=1&GScid=2198490&GRid=19526163&

« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 07:27:23 pm by Epiphany »

Epiphany

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Mrs. Mary Posey (AUGUSTA, Ga.)

AUGUSTA, Ga. - Entered into rest December 14, 2002, at the West Lake Manor Health Care Center, Augusta, Ga. Mrs. Mary "Chris" Christine Posey, 76, wife of the late Rev. Paul Posey.

 Mrs. Posey was born in Denmark, South Carolina. She was a member of the Powell Baptist Church
and a Homemaker. Survivors include ... Fred Posey of New Mexico

The Augusta Chronicle December 17, 2002

http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/2002/12/17/obi_364528.shtml

Epiphany

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Quote
Shaman Art Gallery
Ojibwe Artist Turtle Heart
Turtle Heart Biography
Turtle Heart was born in 1949.

He is of Ojibwe, Catabwa and Welch ancestry.

He is a graduate of Duke Medical University, 1969

Former member of United States Army, serving in Vietnam with the 1st Infantry Division and receipent of Purple Heart.

He was the first American Indian to present his culture and work on the Internet, beginning in 1986 at MIT. He was the first American Indian to receive attention, awards and exhibitions of Digital Art in 1994

http://www.aicap.org/shaman-art-gallery/profile.html

Fred Posey wrote this and it looks like the only truth is his birth year. Maybe also he has some Welsh heritage, though his family member did not mention that.

He claims he graduated from Duke Medical University when he was 20 years old.

He claims distinguished military service. (Update, he did serve in military, don't see any sign of a Purple Heart)

He claims American Indian heritage and that as American Indian he was the first to "present his culture and work on the Internet, beginning in 1986 at MIT". So he supposedly also attended MIT?

He sells his art as "Ojibwe Artist Turtle Heart" which is something he could not legally do in USA.

The Indian Arts and Crafts Act of 1990 http://www.iacb.doi.gov/act.html
Quote
In 1997 his work with digital computer art was archived in the Permanant Collection at the Smithsonian Museum of Computer History...nominated in fact by the (then) CEO of Adobe, Inc.

http://www.aicap.org/shaman-art-gallery/index2.html

Adobe Board of Directors http://www.adobe.com/leaders/board-directors.html So which CEO nominated his work?

Smithsonian National Museum of American History, Computer History Collection http://americanhistory.si.edu/comphist/ .

What exactly of his work was archived at the Smithsonian? The Smithsonian Computer History Collection doesn't look like a collection that would contain his "digital computer art".
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 04:45:15 pm by Piff »