I don't think anyone is condoning the selling of ceremony in Europe or anywhere else. The point that was being made was that these are damaging accusations which could ruin a person's reputation and life and we have no sources, nothing that we can research. Yes, there are blips about the event in several Norwegian facebook accounts and the flyer. None of us speak Norwegian. It'd be nice to see something about Ybarra in English. In fact, it'd be nice to have something besides facebook. If he's such an exploiter, you'd think there'd be something more on the internet about him.
Kathryn started this thread with:
We've received some complaints about this guy. Reports are that he's claiming to be an Apache Medicine Man, and is selling sweats and NAC ceremonies to all-white groups in Europe. There are also reports of him doing private ceremonies specifically for women. Looks to me like yet another who couldn't muster a following here, so crossed the water to sell to the Europeans.
Where in any of those facebook messages does it say anything about "private ceremonies specifically for women"? Comments like that could lead someone to believe Ybarra is a sexual predator, even though there is no proof of that, not even an innuendo.
I think we need to be very careful about making unfounded accusations. There are enough people criticizing NAFPS for what we do, accusing us of being witch hunters and condemning without doing our research. We don't have to live down to their opinions.
I don't think anyone is condoning the selling of ceremony in Europe or anywhere else.
Well in my initial post in this thread, I for one stated that some here have said they were against PODIA or NONs being allowed in any native ceremony, or that they should only be allowed in certain ones.
I am under the impression that you for one would believe that way, and that is fine. However if that is true of you and a few others on here, then why would it be okay for this man to even conduct ceremonies in Europe in your eyes and not okay for people here to allow NONs or PODIA people in ceremonies here in the states?
Perhaps you should clarify your stance on that issue???
My opinion on the matter is this. The traditions and ceremonies of a certain people or tribe belong to those people, and were gifted to them by the creator. If those people and their spiritual leaders see fit to allow people from other tribes, PODIA's, or even NON's in such things that is their choice and right.
I for one have seen with my own eyes and been present, when well known elders have allowed PODIA's and even NON's whom they were close to and trusted into sweats and other things. They key point to this matter is that these NON's or PODIA's whom were allowed in, were ones that the elder or his family had known for a great deal of time, and trusted etc.
On one occasion I listened to one elder I was close to speak to his daughter in law whom ran sweats for women, and at that time the topic of NON's in sweats and other things came up. The elder asked his daughter in law what she felt about getting NON's involved in things like sweats if they were going to do it in a good way, which of course meant doing so with respect and not becoming an exploiter or anything similar.
Her reply to him was that really she didn't have an issue with it, but was against it because of the tremendous amount of energy it would take to help these people, and that because NDN people were hurting so badly, they should be helped and not NON's. The elder thought about it, and then he agreed with her. All of that made sense to me.
As you know, NDN people are hurting really bad, and their ceremonies should be for them first and foremost, even if I am not against elders and spiritual leaders helping NON's and PODIA's if they see fit and it is okay with their people and community.
So to me this throws into question why some man would be way over in Europe running native ceremonies for NON's??? Did some tribe or their spiritual leaders send him on some mission to help these people, and why would they when this should be done for NDN people here. If you are going to help NON's, why not help ones here since doing so would give them an NDN world view and better help NDN people here both politically and spiritually?
Why even go to Europe period, when the spiritual ways of NDN people are not like Christianity and we do not seek to "convert" people to our ways???
This man, regardless of what his name, is obviously attracting attention to himself and to me that and what his actions are over there are indicative of new age hocus pocus and most likely plastic shame-on fraud activity
The point that was being made was that these are damaging accusations which could ruin a person's reputation and life and we have no sources, nothing that we can research.
On the contrary, as has already been pointed out, this is "research needed," so how is this any different then what has been said in any other thread in this section?
I have seen in other threads where people have been compared to child molesters or something to that effect with no such proof they were anything of the sort, and much was said with just as little or no sources to actually investigate just as in this thread.
So how is this any different then any other research needed thread?
Nothing here has been said to indicate this person is actually guilty of these actions any more so then the many numerous threads in this section of NAPFS.
If he's such an exploiter, you'd think there'd be something more on the internet about him.
True, unless this is his very first time with people finding out about him. Everything and everyone have their start and finish.
I think we need to be very careful about making unfounded accusations. There are enough people criticizing NAFPS for what we do, accusing us of being witch hunters and condemning without doing our research. We don't have to live down to their opinions.
Again, how is this thread in research needed any different then any other one?
