NAFPS Forum

General => Frauds => Topic started by: educatedindian on February 13, 2006, 03:11:55 pm

Title: Pablo Russell
Post by: educatedindian on February 13, 2006, 03:11:55 pm
We've gotten requests about him, so thought I'd post what we have for all to see.

Annika's post from ENAF followed by links to the Archives. The requester is kept anon.

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Hi guys! I wanted to forward an email I got today. Pablo Russell has  been up for discussion on NAFPS. I first learned about him when a
Danish woman contacted me and said that Pablo had got a vision to  spread his message (read: sell sweats) in all Scandinavian countries.
And I just had to help her get him into Sweden. The guy was selling sweats in bulk with a rebate - like "buy 4 sweats for the price of 3".
Together with a Norwegian friend I wrote a letter to the Danish organisation, enclosing the Lakota Declaration of War and explaining  we did not want him in Sweden OR Norway! And...so he disappeared.
Well, apparantly he must have got a new vision to go down south in Europe instead. (Now, how convenient...!)

For once I can say for sure that this guy is a fraud. I have asked Blackfoot friends about him, they are extremely upset about what he is doing and he has a very bad reputation among his people. (Pablo is Blood). So - thought I should just add another name on the fraud-list of ENAF. (David, if you want to add him to your list, go ahead...)

Annika

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Followed by the request(name deleted).

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Hi,
I´m glad having found this site! I´m searching for further  information about Pablo Russell www.pablorussell.com and the people
around him. I´m really no new age and indian spirit junkee. I´m a serious  therapist as you may have a look at my site (deleted for privacy.)
I was led to the ethnomed-kongress in munic in last october where I met Pablo Russell for the first time. As I´m wanting to learn especially form the first nation members I was very impressed of him
and what he was talking about.
But there was something that made me cynical about all this.I can´t  descibe it with words it is a certain feeling I can trust in. I´m  insecure if something is wrong there.
There are some people around him,I do not trust.Others seem to be o.k.

I do not want to take the wrong path.Also I do not want to judge  about him.
I saw in NAFPS-Forum what the member called "indianeducated" an the  member "Annika" were writing about him and Morris Crow.

I want to become clear about him before I decide to participate on a Medicine Wheel seminar, he will give at the end of march.

At the moment he has contact with Dr.Christian Rätsch who is well known as an Old-Americanist and Ethnologue since years.They will participate on a Esoteric-Fair in Prague/CZ this march.
I am very insecure about all this and would be glad if you could share your opinion with me

Thanks a lot and have a nice day
(name deleted)
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And what we have from Archives.
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http://newagefraud.org/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?board=archive1;action=display;num=1116518971;start=1#1
http://newagefraud.org/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?board=archive1;action=display;num=1116518971;start=4#4
http://newagefraud.org/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?board=archive1;action=display;num=1116518971;start=7#7
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: educatedindian on February 16, 2006, 05:51:22 pm
Workshop he's doing in Germany.
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Pablo Russell and Christian Raetsch will make an appearance at the following event:

World Conference of Ethnotherapies 2006 – Concepts for Future Oct 7-8, 2006 at Munich University, Germany

The conference is organized by an Institute for Ethno-Medicine, situated in Munich.

(Translator's note: The institute is an „e.V.“, i.e. comparable to US  c500something (tax exempt, donations tax deductible). As an „e.V.“,
their finances will be revised by the state regularly and their principles must meet certain requirements (e.g. the „e.V.“ means to educate the
broad public re whatever, aims at the promotion of better understanding between different nations and cultures etc). This grants them a partly
state recognized status, however, whether the education they offer is utter bs will not be examined except if they happen to get reported to
the police. Authorities will only control finances regularly, and the mission statement when applying for the „e.V.“ status, and they have to
send in copies of the minutes of annual/bi-annual general meetings of members.)

The info about the conference is to be found (German language) at:
http.//www.institut-ethnomed.de/weltkonf06.html

The aim of this conference, which apparently has had predecessors, is to give the audience an overview about traditional healing and the
different concepts of healing of various peoples; they say they invited authentic traditional healers and teachers from all over the world.

Another aim of this conference is to enable contacts and meetings among traditional healers, shamans, open-minded scientists and persons
applying modern therapy methods.

The institute says that healers and shamans appearing in this conference are experienced and honoured experts and personalities in their
respective cultures. Since their indigenous guests, however, often think, decide, and act in different dimensions, they ask participants to be prepared for changes in the programme.

In translation (texts to be found at above URL in German language):

„Pablo Russell, Blackfoot medicine man, Canada....
Following a vision he received during a vision quest at Chief Mountain – the holy mountain of the Blackfoot Indians -, he continued his work in Europe from 1997 in order to bring us the „gift of the buffalo medicine“. Meanwhile he has given speeches, done seminars, workshops and
sweat lodges in many European countries. In November 1999, he organized a conference and Pow Wow together with Four Winds Association in
Lausanne/Switzerland with aborigines, pygmies, Siberian shamans, Crow, Cheyenne, and Lakota with the aim of uniting peoples close to nature resp their representatives in an initiative to save Mother Earth.

Workshop 1
The Medicine Wheel – Aid and Healing through the Holy Circle

The term „the circle“ is a possibility to express that all things are related. This is a perspective in which one's own experience of the physical world, the world of events, of emotions, of thoughts and of
relationships is being acknowledged. The Indians called this circle of life the „Medicine Wheel“.

With the medicine wheel, Pablo Russell will give deep insights into the understanding of life and enables practical counseling. He talks about
several different stages in the life of human beings (birth, youth, grownup, old age) by showing these on the medicine wheel as well as the development and deeper meaning of love, belief, trust, and sharing within these different stages of life. Participants of this workshop will learn how to integrate this knowledge into their own life and start the path of healing – a healing taking place on all four levels, the physical, the emotional, the mental, and the spiritual levels.(Translator's note:
each workshop is to last 90 minutes.)
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: educatedindian on February 16, 2006, 05:53:28 pm
Pt 2
Other speakers/workshop leaders:

translation
Don Pedro Guerra Gonzales, shaman from Peru
who stands in the tradition of the tribal culture of the Mayorunas; he has been taken into the jungle from early childhood on and has been taught healing plants. At the age of 22, Don Pedro decoded to start the long way of the curandero. He spent two years in the Peruvian jungle in complete isolation, during which a special diet must be kept and strict rules of abstinence must be obeyed. In his dreams and vision (t.n: singular in original text) he came into contact with plant spirits, especially the powerful tree spirits. He gained his shamanic power and wisdom through the trees, therefore he belongs to the group of paleros, the tree shamans or tree knowers. Since then, Don Pedro also works with other master plants and their plant spirits who offered him their knowledge during further diets (sic).

Abbrev.
Kokopelli, Tradtional dancer of the Aztec and anthropologist, Mexiko Jorge A. Kokopelli Guadarrama, born 1975 in Mexiko, son of Nopaltzin, was separated from his family at an early age to learn the Aztec traditions. He studied anthropology at the National School of Anthropology and History. Out of a personal conviction, he aims at teaching the roots of
his culture, so that the world learns parts of this wonderful tradition.

Abbrev.
Nopaltzin, Traditional dancer of the Aztec
Jorge Nopaltzin Guadarrama was born in Mexico. He represents and teaches the Aztec culture, their art and traditional medicine, rituals, dances and ceremonies. His words about the spiritual teachings and healing concepts of the Aztecs have become known far beyond the borders of
Mexico. He is the founder of the Institute for Spreading the Culture of the Aztecs „Nopalli Mexico“.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: gus on February 16, 2006, 08:20:53 pm
I lived in Peru a while. That is what the curranderos do there. Curranderos are not usually a secret thing though, they even have signs for their services in the high street.
There are a hell of a lot of fakes though. Most of them have big fat bellys - from their strict fasts in the jungle (=;
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: educatedindian on February 17, 2006, 07:33:18 pm
I asked around at a curandero forum. Don Pedro is looking more and more like a fake. Curanderos are not paleros, and tree knowers are neither curandero nor palero. For one thing, palero is an Afric-Caribbean tradition by way of the Congo, meaning to work with spirits in the woods.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: gus on February 18, 2006, 02:59:49 pm
Hi edu,
all i can say is,
imagine someone running workshops on -
"the path of the physiotherapist" or "the long way of the dental hygenist" or etc etc
it would be equally riduculous and out of its cultural context, but comparable.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: gus on February 21, 2006, 01:33:50 am
Curranderos are more like the local doctors there and most people know something about herbal remedies seeing as western medical care is often expensive and many prefer curranderos anyway.
It would not be hard for a fraudulant new age outfit to hire a real currandero as charging is normal in many places, its a job for many as much as a ceremonial role .
Of course he might at first be curious why people were coming to him with loads of esoteric mystical questions and not physical health problems and diseases.
I really couldnt say whether he is the real thing or not , there are many "pendejos" or fakes looking for a quick buck without having done the training which is just as hard as any western medical degree.
However what he said is accurate .
Ill ask a friend of mine if he knows him.

One story that made me laugh :

This guy was mestizo but claiming to be an ashaninka native.
He did ayahuasca ceremonies mainly for gringos in this giant bamboo hut on stilts.
When he entered the ceremony his assistants would rock the whole house from below to make it seem like the earth itself was trembling at his power .
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: J.J.Toepfer on February 21, 2006, 05:45:16 pm
Dear users of this forum,
As you can see, I put up my full name to be authentic in what I am saying.
I have been allowed to visit the sundance ceremonies of Morris Crow Spreading Wings,
native name, Last Tail Feathers, for the last 7
years, working as a helper first and as chief
fireman for the last 4 years.
Due to this generosity of the sundanceleader
I was allowed to share prayers of this holy
ceremony.
Within the last 8 years I was allowed to invite
Morris Crow and Pablo Russell to Europe for
sharing the native wisdom with the white people.
I can only say in a humble way, that I have
experienced nothing but clear teachings about the
soulsearch of mankind from both people.
Mr. Russell is known for sharing, not selling the  natvive ideas to people of all colours of  mankind.
He has worked for the Glenbow Museum in Calgary,
teaching about the native culture, be rewarded
with the Dr. Crowshoe award for teaching more
then 30.000 school students, he has been a
presenter at the ethnofair in munich in 2005
and I can furnish everyone , who is interested
with referenceletters from all over the world.
Mr. Russel is an active sundanceleader at the
yearly Morris Crow sundance and he has been
with the sundance for 20 years.
So , if there is someone, without a name , that
would like to talk about these things, I would like to ask everyone in an open way to call me up
at 0049-40-222555 and I will give them, whatever
is needed to strengthen the truth about this
whole topic.
I can only say , that I have the highest respect
for the native culture and I have traveled to Mount
Sinai/Egypt   with Morris Crow Spreading Wings to
pray  for world peace  and there were people from
all different religions,Muslims,Beduins,Christians,
Buddhists and we all prayed together in peace.
Maybe you should think about these things, before
you judge over people.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: vikinglady on February 21, 2006, 08:30:11 pm
Hi J.J. I am Annika. I am like you (?) non-Native and European. I do not know that much about Native cultures and I am in no way a chief and not even an Indian in my past life!!  :)

I understand you know a lot about Native cultures having participated in all those ceremonies for sooo many years..WOW!... so I just have a couple of questions: during all your visits to Native communities and reservations in US and/or Canada, how many Natives did you come across who are in favour of selling ceremonies? How many medicinepeople, Elders and Spiritual leaders thought it OK to sell spiritual teachings? Just curious. Because damn if I can find them...! (Unless I count the exploiters)

I am not quite sure of the difference between "selling" and "sharing for money" ? Could you enlighten me? (Clearly Pablo is "sharing for money" since the price is up on most websites and I, myself, have been invited three times to his sweats - if I paid 80 USD.)

As for the credentials, do I get you right, the more lectures you have, the more authentic and spiritual you are? Hmm...yeah, that must be right, the Swedish shamans I´ve met talk for hours about themselves and their spirituality, not at all like the Native medicinepeople I´ve met who were very quiet and modest, almost shy. Most of them had never had a single lecture... so does that mean they are not real? Oh dear....:(

I´m just curious of one more thing: why is his own people against him? Why do his own people say things like: "I agree about this Pablo Russell, it is individuals like him who continue to perpetuate stereotypes and prostitute our culture for their own personal gain and at a great expense and loss to our culture and ceremonies. The Europeans have been lost for quite some time and are grasping at anything to believe in and research. "

Hmmm.... what do you think is wrong with that reserve? And with the one "next door", because a lot of people there said the same thing? How come they don´t know that he is a medicineman? He should tell them.....really!  Is Pablo a little bit misunderstood do you think?

Well, just curious :)

Annika
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: J.J.Toepfer on February 22, 2006, 10:03:51 am
Dear Annika,

first of all I would like to apologize , if I have left the impression, that I am special, because I have been in the reserve a couple of times. I am not.
I am just a visitor of these ceremonies and I am
thankful , that the native community is allowing me,
to get an idea how to life in harmony with mother earth.
It is a blessing , that these people open their culture to the white people, even though, they have been treated so badly in the past.
I think , that mankind should stick together to change the present situation on this planet.
About the selling:
I have learned about the native culture, that
" what comes around goes around" and that in the old days, the tribe always took care of their elders
or the people who were doing ceremonies, by giving them meat, blankets,tobacco or even horses,
due to the fact , that they were not allowed to go
hunting or into warfare. So there seemed to be an exchange of material things.
These days , there is a need too, to cover expenses
for airfares, accomodation, food etc. and to help the
lecturers.
But I can assure you from my personal experience,
that nobody will be excluded from sweats for money. I can invite you anytime to share a sweat
without any donation at all. In all the sweats, I have experienced , children, elderly people or people without money, were sweating for free.

Another thing, that I have learned is , that no
native person would gossip about their fellow
tribe members. If they have an issue with somebody, they stand up, say their name and
clear it up in a personal attempt.
If you have experienced something different by hearing things, I would like to suggest, to go to the
sundance and talk to the tribemembers, to get
an eye to eye information.
Maybe that would help to get real information.

It could be, that I  have misunderstood the whole
thing, but in common sense I would always see
somebody myself in person, before I get upset with this person and even if a feel dislike for them , I would accept, that this person might not serve my personal needs, but maybe he could help others
to find peace with themselves, so we can make this
world a better place.

As I said earlier, I am very humble to help
to preserve these precious teachings from the north
american culture, because if I look around , I feel
it is needed for all of us .

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: J.J.Toepfer on February 22, 2006, 01:39:19 pm
Oh, I forgot to mention: the expression "chief firemen" means lead helper and has nothing to do with being a chief . we are just carrying rocks, watch the fire and chop wood, so that the sundancers can sweat in the morning and at night.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: debbieredbear on February 22, 2006, 05:32:52 pm
No native person would gossip about another?? Hahahaha! That is funny! Yes, we do gossip about people. We are human beings with the same foibles as anyone else. And the fact that this man's own family is willing to denounce him says buckets.


Annika, is this the same guy who abandoned a wife and children to shack up with one of his euro groupies? If so, why would ANYONE want to learn from someone like that?? Someone so dishonorable as that would have very little respect among traditional people in my experience.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: yellowthunder_bolt on February 22, 2006, 07:44:13 pm
'Siyo J.J., my name is Thomas,

Ihave read this thread with a lot of interest. Have you ever asked the Creator or Spirit for guidance concerning these teachings? Please open your heart for a moment as I share the following with you.

"Tribe always took care of the Elders or people who were doing ceremonies,by giving them meat, blankets, tobacco,or even horses due to the fact they were not allowed to go hunting or into warfare". As I am Cherokee I will speak of my traditions, for I cannot speak of someone elses tribe. It is not "PEOPLE" who do ceremonies but those who have the right to do them, passed down from one generation to the next, or the right was earned and a ceremony performed to give them the right.
These things you mentioned"exchange of material things" that was given to them ,was not because they were not allowed to go hunting or into warfare, no, it is traditional to give tobacco,cedar, corn meal, out of respect for the one doing the ceremonies. A gift, a traditional gift, not "material things" but sacred gifts,depending on the ceremonies.
Now days it remains so, however monies is sometime gifted but it is never asked for. No true traditional person of any tribe would ever ask for money. These ceremonies were given by Creator to share freely with the people. You are so right "what goes around comes around". I have seen it and it is not a pretty sight. These gifts from Creator are NEVER to be sold or misused, or exploited, regardless of ones credentials.In fact to bring up these is not traditional.Your own words "Gift of the Buffalo"

"One would never be turned away from a sweat if they had no money,""sweating for free".Question J.J. did Creator tell Pablo or anyone else you know to charge for inipi ceremonies? Did the Great Spirit? We Cherokees don't sweat but have hot houses or long houses but I have sweat with Lakota friends and if I would have been asked for money, I would have spit on the ground and turned my back and  walked away, for you see the sweat is sacred a gift from Creator. Yes I would have taken a gift but out of respect for the one doing the lodge, it is taken very seriously.

"Lead helper, we are just carrying rocks, watch the fire and chop wood" These "rocks" are you talking about the grandfathers? This fire you watch is it part of the sweat ceremony or to just keep you warm? Where is the Altar? who is watching that??"
All of these are part of a sacred lodge.

I admire the fact you want to preserve these precious teachings but J.J. be sure in your heart and Spirit that living part of you, that these are true.
Creator is telling you something or you would not have crossed this path.

                                     WADO Thomas

Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: vikinglady on February 22, 2006, 10:56:31 pm
Hi J.J.

Quote
But I can assure you from my personal experience,
that nobody will be excluded from sweats for money.


That´s good, maybe you should add that on the invitations, because people actually think they have to pay!

Quote
I can invite you anytime to share a sweat
without any donation at all.


Thanks but no thanks. Native ceremonies are for a Native community and should be conducted by an authentic ceremony leader. Also, I don´t have any need to participate in ceremonies. The best way for me to show respect for them is to stay away.

Quote
Another thing, that I have learned is , that no
native person would gossip about their fellow
tribe members. If they have an issue with somebody, they stand up, say their name and
clear it up in a personal attempt.


A..hmm...oooookey...? NO Native person? You know them ALL?! C´mon, Swedes gossip, Germans gossip, Natives gossip...

Quote
If you have experienced something different by hearing things, I would like to suggest, to go to the
sundance and talk to the tribemembers, to get
an eye to eye information.
 Maybe that would help to get real information.


I HAVE got real information already, thanks.  Or did you mean that your information is the only "real" one?

Quote
personal needs, but maybe he could help others
to find peace with themselves, so we can make this
world a better place.


Well, you know, helping non-Natives to feel better about themselves while thousands (probably) of Natives feel offended...well...I am not quite sure how that contribute to "people sticking together to change the present situation..."?

So why the need to appropriate sacred ceremonies? There are SO much that can be done in our own cultures to make the world a better place. Like, to start with, show respect for others, help the old and the sick, raise money for a good cause, do something for your community, show respect to Mother Earth...  That is ALL it takes.

Annika





Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: vikinglady on February 22, 2006, 11:05:11 pm
Quote
No native person would gossip about another?? Hahahaha! That is funny! Yes, we do gossip about people. We are human beings with the same foibles as anyone else. And the fact that this man's own family is willing to denounce him says buckets.


Annika, is this the same guy who abandoned a wife and children to shack up with one of his euro groupies? If so, why would ANYONE want to learn from someone like that?? Someone so dishonorable as that would have very little respect among traditional people in my experience.


Hej Debbie! Yeah, the gossip bit is really funny!! And no, this is not the same guy. There are so many of them...irrrrrrrk....   I have Native friends up in Alberta and have spent some time on one of the reserves, so I know what they think about him, actually they called him "a dirty rat!" And he is NOT a medicineman!!

Annika
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: raven on February 23, 2006, 01:25:39 pm
It seems that J.J. has not been deeply involved with native families, nor has been to a lot of pow wows, with the comment about the gossip.
When I call relatives the first half hr is nothing but gossip, who's doing what to who, better than the soap operas.

J.J. I respect your dedication as a fire tender, I know that is a hard and humbling job.
I am not here to attack you but to tell you what I have seen with real elders.
Yes it does cost money to travel, however it should not be requested for any ceremony.
To give an example, I know an elder that speaks at the U.N. He is one of many that represents the native people here in our country.
He is not a wealthy man by no means, to cover his traveling expenses it is through family, tribe and from his sun dance family.
Another elder that I know  that is a well respected medicine man, he has been instrumental in bringing back the cherokee language to the schools in N.C.
He travels through the school system teaching the language and tradtional songs.  Yet he also does not request monies for his travel expenses.
The difference here is how the money is obtained.
Is it through family and tribe or is it from outsiders?

Another difference is that our medicine people here in the states do not travel around doing lectures nor seminars.  They are not self appointed medicine people, they are recognized by their tribe and people as one. They don't go to the people, the people go to them.

What is sad here J.J. is that you appear to be a good humbled person that is being taken in by someone that even their own tribe and family does not support what they are doing. This in itself should be a red flag to you that something isn't right.
Your intent is good, but your judge of character isn't.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: J.J.Toepfer on February 23, 2006, 02:22:23 pm
Dear Thomas,
I thank you very much for your kind words.
I will smudge and pray for the guidance of the creator.
It is an honour for me, that you have adressed your words to me and if you like , I would like to
share some of the articles with you, that I have written about native spirituality .
Thank you JJ
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: J.J.Toepfer on February 23, 2006, 02:37:02 pm
Dear Raven,

thank you very much for your kind concerns about
me.

I really hope with an open heart and the help of the creator to do the right thing in the future.

Your words will be part of my path.

Thank you JJ
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: J.J.Toepfer on February 23, 2006, 02:40:38 pm
Raven,
the same I wrote to Thomas, if you feel like it,
I will send you some of my written articles.
JJ
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: J.J.Toepfer on February 23, 2006, 02:48:08 pm
Dear Annika,
I will continue to support many projects in my close
neighborhood and in the world.
I my function as a free lancing journalist I have
supported the Tibetian Freedom Movement, the
greenpeace work for saving the rainforrest and the
preservation of the northamerican culture.
I believe, if we all do our share, mankind will be able to change the present direction towards
destroying mother earth.
In respect for all people I remain
JJ
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: vikinglady on February 23, 2006, 07:40:14 pm
J.J. , I really do think you have the best intentions and that you´re a wellmeaning good hearted person. Unfortunately, those are the persons the frauds usually target. I have been manipulated by exploiters myself when I was new to all this. Without enough information, it is extremely hard to know what is true and not true.

I was just thinking, we organise lecture tours with Native people once or twice each year and due to the success last year, we will continue to extend them to the rest of Europe. Would you be interested in hosting one of our Native friends next time?

If you are, please let me know and I´d be glad to ? keep you updated. ? :)

Annika

Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: yellowthunder_bolt on February 24, 2006, 12:12:37 am
'Syio J.J.

I would be interested in reading some of your written articles. Wado . Please post them through a personal email on this site to yellow_thunder. I'm sure my friend on this site would like to read some excerpts from your writings also. One can get to know one by listening to thier thoughts if writen from the heart hey?

                                    Wado Thomas
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: J.J.Toepfer on February 24, 2006, 08:28:28 am
Dear Users of this forum,
first of all I would like to thank you for your kind words and I would like to share something with you:
This morning, as I was driving to work, I saw a big Hawk on the roadside, who had caught a rabbit and
he was having a feast, when I passed him.
These thoughts have arised through this incident.

I would like to say, that I have never been asked from any native person for money, neither from
Pablo or any other person, that I have invited to Europe.
When we invite somebody , it is our choice and not
a wish from the person we invite.
In Wintertime , when people in the reserve are
in trouble, nobody will call for help, but I still ask my friends to donate money , so the elders have
something to eat and some wood  for fire, because
I know the situation in the reserve.
In my believe , as being white , as having ancestors
who have destroyed many native cultures, I feel
that we have to do something to make up for the past and to help out , to save mother earth for
our coming generations with the help of native
spirituality.
It is hard, that money is sometimes the tool for
helping.
I thank you ones again for listening to my words.
JJ
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: J.J.Toepfer on February 24, 2006, 08:47:05 am
Dear friends,dear Thomas,Raven  and Annika,

since I am not a member of this, I cannot send
the email directly to you, so I post some of my
thoughts in the forum.
One day a dream took place in summer 1994:

I was standing at the ocean overlooking a quiet and beautiful blue sea. As time passed by, the spirit of the sea rised in front of me as a light and started talking. It said: Listen to me; I need you to help me out at this point in time. I have a problem with the human beings. They are not behaving in a good way towards me. They are polluting the water, they are killing my beloved animals, they are stealing all my treasures and they simply have no respect for my creation. I want you to do something about that. If nothing will change, I will show you now, what I can do. So the spirit put me in a shield of light to protect me and said:

' The first thing I can do, is, to rise the waters' and the spirit started to create a big storm and huge waves, that flooded everything and the waters of the ocean covered the land.

Than it said:

' The second thing I can do, is, to dry the oceans' and the spirit started to dry the oceans and all that was left was a thick saltcrust, which was blown across the land by a big storm.

Then it said:

' The third thing I can do, is, to create twisters in the sea' and the sea started to create twisters, that would pull everything into the ocean.

Finally it said:

' The fourth thing I can do, is, to send all the creatures of the ocean to get after mankind ' and so all the creatures and spirits came out of the sea and went after the people.

After all this scenario the spirit send me in my lightshield into the universe to look at mother earth from there and the spirit said:

              'and now I will show you, what will happen, when we are in peace' and I was allowed to see that there was light coming out of all the oceans, big cascades of light, that were traveling towards the sun and it was a very beautiful peaceful picture of harmony all around the planet.

The spirit brought me back to the quiet beautiful blue sea, where I started and asked me to begin my work. So I started in my dream to collect shells and stones that belong to the ocean, I talked to people to have respect for the creation and slowly I saw the light coming out of the ocean. At that time a man came and took one of the shells to walk away with it and I ran after him, because it was disturbing the recovery of peace and light. As I approached him and asked for the shell, he answered me: ' I need the shell for my wife, otherwise she will leave me'.

I told him right away, to make up his mind, whether he wants to disturb the healing of the creation for that reason or help out in bringing back the peace and he decided to give the shell back and the healing continued.
That was the end of my dream.

The following day I walked around and thought, that it was an intense dream, but I did not know, whether I should do something now in the real world.

I still felt a big desire to do something, so I decided to travel to the Baltic Sea to have a pipe ceremony, with the pipe, that I received from Morris.

I did the ceremony in a very humble way, asking the to sea accept me as one human being, trying to present mankind, showing respect for the creation.

At the end I made a boat from the things I found at the beach and I put my smudge bowl, an abalone shell, on it, together with tobacco and sage and some other offerings.
It swam away towards the sea and it was a beautiful day, with clear blue skies, calm water and the beauty of mother earth, listening to my prayers.

Maybe this dream will help to change things for the better.
This dream I share with you, because I love mother earth and gods creation.



Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: Guest on February 24, 2006, 02:53:42 pm
I had a dream like that once, made me stop using LSD...
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: Stefan Kobler on March 07, 2006, 11:44:45 am
Hi there
I have been reading what you have been writing about Pablo Russell twice now. So even though I'm still pretty young and don't know too much about all the different Native American ways I would like to say a few thing here. Please forgive me, my english writing is not the best, hope you can figure it out.smile
First I like to say that I think to have a page as this one is a pretty good idea. Since there are for example many sweats in Europe that are run by people that have been reading a few books about natives or have been to some seminares and run sweats all of a sudden without any rights at all. And I can understand that many natives are very unhappy to see this happen like that. I just hope that whoever gets on a page like that will be talked about on facts and the truth.
As for what I read about Pablo: It was never his vision to go to Scandinavia and I don't know who said ... if not something terrible is going to happen, but I know it wasn't Pablos doing. I guess this started the whole thing on that page here.
I can see that Pablo has his owen difficulties and shortcomings and I know that he is aware of them too. Just the way we all have. I haven't met the perfekt humen beeing yet. and I sort of dout I ever will at least not in this lifetime. I'm a pretty critical person myself and I don't follow anybody blindly and will always do make my owen choises in life if right or wrong.
I don't know how often I heard Morris Crow and Pablo say don't put us up on a ( I believe they called it ) pedestal ( don't look up to us ). And I could see how uncomfortable it made them feel if some people did anyway. I know how shy Pablo gets when he has to talke in front of a group of people and how nervous he gets because of it.
I heard him say many times : I can't speak for the Native American people and I'm not a spokesperson for the blood tribe. But I can talke about from what I know about my peoples way of life and culure from long ago and today. And he can say if he doesn't know the answer to a qustion I don't know or I'm a blood you need to talke to a lakota or whatever tribe if you want to know that.
In his lectures he is talking about common knowledge of his people and not about secret, sacred cermonies.
There are no levels of spirituallity and no such thing as: the more sweats you go to and the more seminares you go to the more spirital you get.
He always tells the people in Europe you never going to become a Native American so stick to and learn about your owen roots.
I haven't read anything about Pablo beeing a Medicenman yet, but I guess it must be written somwhere. Well I have never heard him say "I'm a medicenman". And he has no clou what people write about him. He doesn't have a PC and he doesn't speak danish or german or spain or whatever. Also that web pace. com. was not Pablos idea. It was more ment for the people that are interested to find out what is happening. He might has seen it once or twice quickly because sombody showed it to him.
He doesn't ask for money eather. He gets envited to go to different people and to different places. And those that envite him pay for the ticked and try to give him some money along as a gift. I haven't seen him counting it at the end of a day and I don't see him driving a nice car and live in a great house.
And I'm sure that non of those that envite him are doing it for any personel gain eather.
You know if I organise a sweat here when Pablo comes and people call me because they want to come, they ask "donation well how much would be apropriet", then I might say you know I have to pay for the wood and part of a airplane ticked and it would really be nice to give him something along too if possible so whatever comes from your heart and they still ask me "ok. from my heart but how much would be apropriet" ? you know it is really pretty diffcult.
But there maight be a better way to deal with all of that and maybe Pablo needs to show more interesst in what people write about himself.
As you are organising for some Natives too Annika, how are you dealing with all of that ? I asume you try to give them somthing along as well to take home for there time and lectures.
As for what some of you get to hear about Pablo from Alberta and the reserves there, you all seem to have a pretty good understanding on how it goes with gossip, smile. So I guess there is not much more to say about that If something it makes me pretty sad. There is a saying back home : you clean up your owen doorsteps first.
I'm pretty much aware that some might allready have a more or less sarcastic respond ready as they read this, so be it I'm not planing on going to defend myself eather.

                     take care
                        Stefan
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: vikinglady on March 07, 2006, 04:58:55 pm
Quote
As you are organising for some Natives too Annika, how are you dealing with all of that ? I asume you try to give them somthing along as well to take home for there time and lectures.
                        


Hi Stefan. It´s easy - I never host Natives doing ceremonies in Europe or offering spiritual teachings.
The guys I host talk about their cultures and/or the abuse of "Native spirituality" or other issues that Natives of today face.  Once the flightticket is covered for, most of them give the rest of the money to our project for the children in Albuquerque.

Stefan - maybe people should start showing more respect for Pablo? It sounds like he doesn´t have a clue what all those guys are doing to him. There are websites up promoting ceremonies with him asking people to send cheques. It looks really, really bad for him and people don´t care about  that or about telling lies when they promote him?? Very sad!! :(  

As for what my friends in Alberta say - they are deeply concerned about their sacred ways being sold in Europe. Sorry, but considering that just being "gossip" makes me very sad too...:(

And for the rest - I think it is better that Natives on this board explain their opinions since I´d rather not speak on their behalf. Thanks for the chat and oh yes - my offer stands: if any of you would like to host our Native guests, please let me know!

Annika
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: vikinglady on March 07, 2006, 09:29:40 pm
Oh, forgot  Stefan - since you´re a  non-Native Blackfoot sundancer and since you´re leading sweats and Sundances all over Europe for money (according to the several sites) I am getting a bit confused here regarding your text about Pablo.

If Pablo is such a nice, traditional guy he must think it is awful that his own adopted brother (according to the text) is selling ceremonies??!

Annika



Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: Ulrike Deichsel on March 08, 2006, 01:44:37 am
whatever tribe if you want to know that.
In his lectures he is talking about common knowledge of his people and not about secret, sacred cermonies.
There are no levels of spirituallity and no such thing as: the more sweats you go to and the more seminares you go to the more spirital you get.
He always tells the people in Europe you never going to become a Native American so stick to and learn about your owen roots.
I haven't read anything about Pablo beeing a Medicenman yet, but I guess it must be written somwhere. Well I have never heard him say "I'm a medicenman". And he has no clou what people write about him. He doesn't have a PC and he doesn't speak danish or german or spain or whatever. Also that web pace. com. was not Pablos idea. It was more ment for the people that are interested to find out what is happening. He might has seen it once or twice quickly because sombody showed it to him.
He doesn't ask for money eather. He gets envited to go to different people and to different places. And those that envite him pay for the ticked and try to give him some money along as a gift. I haven't seen him counting it at the end of a day and I don't see him driving a nice car and live in a great house.
And I'm sure that non of those that envite him are doing it for any personel gain eather.
You know if I organise a sweat here when Pablo comes and people call me because they want to come, they ask "donation well how much would be apropriet", then I might say you know I have to pay for the wood and part of a airplane ticked and it would really be nice to give him something along too if possible so whatever comes from your heart and they still ask me "ok. from my heart but how much would be apropriet" ? you know it is really pretty diffcult.
But there maight be a better way to deal with all of that and maybe Pablo needs to show more interesst in what people write about himself.
As you are organising for some Natives too Annika, how are you dealing with all of that ? I asume you try to give them somthing along as well to take h
Hi,
Stefan this in an answer from Ulrike staying in
Düsseldorf Germany-
this whole thing here was started by a request of mine-see what is written at the beginning-the question with this hidden identity! Side 1 Pablo-
I have been linked at this site by searching something about him and his work in the net-I will tell you now the whole story by outing myself and I hope you will read it! I am sitting here in Düsseldorf
and we have 1:44-so what-
First i didn´t know what the word fraud meant-I am not very perfect in English-so I had a look at the dictionary-then I became afraid-I thought that my feeling about Pablo was wrong because I read about him in this archive here-I didn´t trust myself
again-I was afraid-perhaps I could be wrong again-
I just ran in an "open knife"in former times-but the moment I decided to ask here(with all my respect for Pablo as you can read) I didn´t realize that it was my personal "film" which made me ask-and I never imagined to have this sort of resonance-

O.K.Now: Dear people of this forum I want to tell you something of my own personal feelings as a human beeing who we all are-if we are black or white or red or yellow: No one has the right to judge about another one-dear "debbieredbear" who ever you are-who gave you the right to tell such things as you did, about Pablos private life???
Do you know anything about his inner feelings? Do you know anything about the women around him and their stories??? Isn´t it their own decision
what they do and what they don´t do which each other?Do you have a contract with yellow press??Another question: Who gave you the allowness to put my question in this forum? I mailed for private because the moment I decided to mail, I hadn´t to discuss anything about Pablo! I only wanted to find my own point of view with the whole informations I could get. I have been very upset because of this-not because I have anything to hide-but because you didn´t wait for my allowness-and who told you to hide my identity??
You wanted to protect me in a nice way-i know this-o.k. but did you ask me if I want it or if I need it?
All this disqualifies you to the deeply ground in my eyes!You don´t respect other peoples feelings! Are you the creator?? Have you to decide
who is wrong and who is wright?
A forum can be a point to discuss different points of view-this is not always soft-o.k. but it never hurts
someone and it would never be unfair!

Same way you treat Pablo here I feel treated now too! Is this enough now-or do we need more to stop? Then please come over-or phone me:
Germany: 40474 Düsseldorf-Gottfried-Kellerstr.49
                Phone 0049-211-5805493
Mobile: 0174-9605946

www.praxis-fuer-energetische-psychotherapie.de

Whoever wants to contact me please do it now-I would prefer a personal contact by direct speech!!
And for information: I decided now to participate at
Pablos Medicine-Whell Seminar Munich March 2006
And I am very happy to meet him there again!

Always count on me from now on whoever wants to
with all my love
Ulrike Deichsel
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: raven on March 08, 2006, 05:47:30 pm
Ulrike. this is in response to your posting. I would like to address somethings that you posted.
Let's begin with putting aside any money issues and discuss the personal issue that you brought up. If Mr. Russell is a spiritual man, there is a conduct in which he should carry himself. To be involved with women, that is not a spiritual man. The conduct is continued in their personal life. They do not allow themselves to be put in a position that may comprimise their reputation. This is not a matter of who was right or wrong in a relationship, it is the fact that relationships took place. I am not saying that spiritual people do not have relationships, what I am saying it is how they handle them and their personal life.
I believe that the attack on Debbie was disrespectful on your part. She respected you enough to not allow people to know who you were, that is much more than what you gave to her. And by what you wrote, you were questioning Mr. Russells character, for did you not say that there was something that made you feel uncomfortable.? Do not blame her for the doubt you felt.
I went on your web site, but since I do not read german I will wait for my husband to go on it and read what it says. I had preferred to send this to your personally, but did not know your email.
I pray that you find what it is you are seeking. We have a saying here, watch what you wish for, in other words sometimes when we get what we asked for it is not always a good thing.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: lene bjergland on March 08, 2006, 06:07:30 pm
Well Annika, I write you a response to your latest target on this site. I am sad to see, that you seem to be a person that shoots at anybody showing up here, trying to explain their situations.
Even worse that you forget to check up with reality before accusing people for being bad behaving.
As for Stefan, the lates authore being pointed at, I know him quite well. And I know what he stands for and his work. Ta accuse him for selling sundances in Europe is ridiculous and I would laugh if it was not such a serious insult.
I don´t know of any sundances in Europe. And I don´t know anybody that would or could sell one.
You have no succes in your effort making Stefan not trustworthy. Instead it is you now, Annika, with our poisonous aggression that can not be trusted.
Very bad for a website, that could be very useful to many.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: vikinglady on March 08, 2006, 06:28:41 pm
Lene, I apologize, I mistook his claim of being a Blackfoot Sundancer for selling sundances. My Danish is not that good, sorry. Stefan is ONLY selling sweats in Europe, not sundances.

Annika

Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: debbieredbear on March 08, 2006, 07:07:31 pm
I am actually puzzled by the attack on me. I did not post the origional about this, so why am I being attacked. As for accusations that I was speaking of his personal life, all I did there was ask if he was the same one we had discussed before. Annika said no, so that is it. Me thinks that Ulrike is a bit defensive in this area.  Ulrike also owes me an apology for falsely accusing me. But I won't hold me breath waiting for it.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: educatedindian on March 08, 2006, 08:29:54 pm
I'm glad to see so many of Russell's and Kobler's followers are coming to this site. What is sad to see is how little some of them have learned, outside of the first of them to post, JJ.

Unlike our later "guests" (none of whom seem to even have any basic politeness) JJ was willing to discuss openly, willing to admit he might not know everything, and seemed sincere in his willingness to keep learning.

When Stefan, Ulrike, and Lene get insulting, abusive, hysterical, hypocritical, or try to be deliberately deceptive, I don't get offended by it, even when I am the target of it.

After all, these tactics just make them look extremely bad, not myself or anyone else at NAFPS.

Ulrike's hysterically angry post is both bizarre and hypocritical. First he confused Debbie with myself.

Why? Who knows? Our names and writing styles are nothing alike.

Then he attacked her (thinking she was me) for invading his privacy. ? Why, I don't know.

I went out of my way to find information he and several others had requested. I insured his name was not revealed, but posted his request for information, and the nature of HIS accusations against Pablo Russell.

Then he complained about being "revealed" and did what?

He *posted his full name and phone number* and then *urged people to call him*.

He sure doesn't have much ability to reason. And the way he answered was not only emotional, it was extremely childish. "I don't like what you did, so I'm going to go with those people you don't like."

He claims to be a serious therapist, but no good therapist would do anything like pay money to an unethical exploiter like Russell over a childish fit.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: educatedindian on March 08, 2006, 08:48:43 pm
Sorry Lene, but it's very obvious that Mr. Kroebler is a liar, a hypocrite, and very unethical himself, upset because he has been caught doing wrong.

There are two possibilities:

1) Pablo Russell is an exploiter doing wrong and Stefan Kroebler is helping him do wrong.

2) Or Pablo Russell is very naive and being badly used by Mr. Kroebler. Thus Kroebler is the main exploiter and ceremony seller.

Kroebler's own words contradict what he claims elsewhere on other sites. What Kroebler and his other German followers naively (and perhaps racistly) assumed was that NDNs would not think to find someone who knew German.

Kroebler said in his post:
"even though I'm still pretty young and don't know too much about all the different Native American ways"

And also:
"I like to say that I think to have a page as this one is a pretty good idea. Since there are for example many sweats in Europe that are run by people that have been reading a few books about natives or have been to some seminares and run sweats all of a sudden without any rights at all."

But on this website:
"Stefan Kobler learned and lived the ceremonies of the ? Indians, until the Indian Charles Chipps allowed him to lead certain ceremonies on his own. Two years ago, the young electronic fitter built his
first sweatlodge. Already at the age of 13, he started reading non-fiction on Indians. Nowadays, he is an Indian expert."
http://www.medienschule.ch/2003/zellweger/banden.doc

And Kroebler is selling sweatlodges all the time, making quite a bit of money it seems. In fact, Kroebler just came back from selling sweatlodges on March 6!

So I will ask you, Lene, and anyone else involved with Pablo Russell or Kroebler...

....does Pablo Russell know his "adoptive brother" selling sweatlodges all over Europe?

And if he does, why doesn't he make Kroebler stop?

www.kvindeguiden.dk

In the ad for sweats, Stefan Kobler is called 'Pablo's adoptive brother'!
(adobtivbror)

www.medicinhjulet.dk/foredrag.htm

Speach (foredrag) on January 6, 2006

On March 4, 2006, there was a sweat 'ledet af Stefan Kobler, Blackfoot
soldanser fra Schweiz' = lead by Stefan K., Blackfoot sundancer from
Switzerland. Pris: kroner 400,-!!!! (approx EUR 50,-)

Shamanistik internat kursus
(Shamanistic internet course)

www.1eren.dk/pablo
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: debbieredbear on March 09, 2006, 04:37:10 am
One more thing:

Ulrike said "There are no levels of spirituallity and no such thing as: the more sweats you go to and the more seminares you go to the more spirital you get."

This is just flat out bizarre. Sounds like a cult. I have NEVER heard traditional people say that the more sweats you go to the more spiritual you will be. That is because there are varied reasons for a sweat. I think someone is selling something here. And it doesn't smell pretty.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: lene bjergland on March 09, 2006, 07:26:28 am
It is amazing ......
If you guys need to point your fingers at somebody, then point it at me!
Point it at us, Danes, Germans, Spaniards, Swiss who invite Pablo and Stefan to come and run sweats for us.
Out of convenience for ourselves we set up a price. We know thhere is no such thing as prices according to Blackfoot traditions, so we are to blame for doing it.
Our guests do not set any price, have none.
This will be my last words. It is not worthwhile.
For all my relations.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: educatedindian on March 09, 2006, 04:41:41 pm
It truly is amazing Lene. It truly is amazing how little you actually know about Native traditions, and how little ethics your leaders, Kroebler and Russell have.

No actual Native elder or leader of a sweatlodge would EVER PERMIT others to set prices.

And then you try to end things by "talking Indian" or what you think NDNs talk like. But you just sound like Tonto.

You can duck the questions all you want. Everyone here can see your leaders are selling sweatlodges.

If you set the prices, then you are almost as guilty as they are.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: Carla on August 08, 2007, 01:57:38 pm
helo
this guy p.russell is also a drugabuser
he hit woman many times iam one of them
and still he is traveling in europe and sell sweats.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: Carla on August 08, 2007, 02:00:11 pm
please dont show my email adress  iam scart.thanx
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: Jamie Hume on August 29, 2007, 01:30:21 am
I am reading this all with 'great' interest.

I, like JJ, have used my real name. I know both Pablo and JJ. Pablo, especially well.

Some of this is recent news to me and I have a lot of questions. I will speak to Pablo myself when the moment is right.

As far as I know, my ex-husband Morris Crow never charged money for anyone to enter a sweat lodge. Pablo traveled extensively with Morris before he passed away, July 1st, 2006. What Pablo is doing now that Morris has passed, I have been unfamiliar with untill very recently.

Please keep in mind that just because, someone studies with someone with integrity, is absolutely no gaurentee of 'their' integrity in the long term. Do not associate Pablo's community with Pablo's choices. Take this all one individual at a time.

Morris was very ill for some time before he passed and there were many changes in my absense and new people I am still getting to know that are now heavily involved in our ceremonies. However, I do know this, if there is a problem it will be delbt with by the Creator in some form or other.

I am not a leader. I am the mother of the seventeen year old Sundancer that has inherited the leadership of the Sundance Morris Crow lead, cared for and brought to the edge of the Old Man River from South Dakota. I am a pipe carrier with seven years of piercing scars on my arms and hands. I do not take these accusations lightly. If they 'are' true, I consider the implications very serious and appaulogise on my part for all inappropriate actions that have occured associated with our Sundance.

You are in my prayers.

Peace.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: Jamie Hume on August 30, 2007, 12:56:41 am
Hi there!

OK, 'some' of the the problem here is that Pablo speaks to people in English whose English is a little shakey! So, some things are being squewed. Very weirdly. Pablo needs to check these written representations of his work. Pablo can best speak for Pablo.

JJ, these terms you are using are new. We never used to use that termonaulogy. I don't know when it sarted or who started it, but I think it is a safe bet that it was a concept thing to get a meaning accross to your group in Europe mixing with your own interpretive experience in trying to grasp things. I am seeing a lot of this going on as people try to communicate. Linguistic and cross cultural challenges are important to face up to, we need to deal with them not run away from them. I know your heart is in what you are saying.

Just to fill in for others, I was married to Morris Crow. I am a non-native Canadian, not a generic white woman, but someone in touch with her roots thanks! Pablo got his authority as a pipe carrier and a sweat lodge keeper from my husband Morris. Morris was authentic! Pablo traveled with Morris throughout Europe, the Middle East, Britain and Australia before he became very ill and passed away July 1st, 2006. Since then I am hearing that there have been changes as Pablo is working on his own for the most part. I don't know exactly what is going on. I am sure hearing a great deal of upset  and serious accusations though!

I know my husband never took a dime for a seat lodge ceremony! Never! There is nothing wrong with be a speaker or lecturer though. There is so much misinformation out there and well no information, that there is a need for authenticity...good people out there doing that trek to inform and educate! I know there are a lot of Mormon missionaries heading accross the ocean that will be telling their version of who First Nations People are to them! Now that is pretty ugly.

Anyway, I am having a hard time reading all this in one sitting. It is upsetting, very upsetting. I am glad to be made aware of it however.

As for Pablos charactor, he is a man. Just a man. He was once a beautiful Sundancer and I remember him in that light as an auntie would. I know he has problems and only he is fit to address those issues...it's between him and the Creator. Pray for him do not idolize him or condem him he is just a human being as are we all...he needs our prayers. He still has many good qualities and really does have legitimate knowledge. I have not seen what he is teaching or been to any of these over seas events or lectures though. I do know he is an excellent speaker however.

In saying that, don't be taken advantage of by anyone! Just because Pablo is an attractive attraction...chuckles...don't let it go to your heads! Rock star issues Pablo? Anyway, people have to navigate and this site is clearly part of that struggle.

Medicine man?!!! I do not know if Pablo has started doctoring people. I know my husband did doctor individuals but he 'never' considered himself a 'medicine man'. People just kept insisting on calling him that, along with calling him a 'Chief'. He was on Chief and Council once though come to think of it. LOL!

Look, this is the thing...people can be naive, people can get carried away with themselves, it is not a happy combination. It can get better though. We can all learn. It is not about distruction, it is about rebirth and personal journey. Virgins have no wealth of wisdom fo they? We all have to learn from thiese experiences.

My concern is people that may have been hurt if there has been exploitation or wrong doing. The possible misconceptions are terrifying!Things must come right again some how. We are looking at a new genertion, a transitional period. I want Pablo to speak to this himself. I want to hear what he has to say. Really!

Peace.



Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: frederica on August 30, 2007, 02:25:24 am
All you have to do is Google his name and he get his upcoming schedule for European Tours. Here is one all Nuage, no sweats in this one. http://www.veletrhesoterika.cz/main.php?pageid=3298 Sapa right they probably as you say precieve him as a "rock star",  and he seems to be buying into every bit of this.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: earthw7 on August 30, 2007, 02:20:08 pm
WOW! >:(

I am a pipe carrier with seven years of piercing scars on my arms and hands. I do not take these accusations lightly. If they 'are' true, I consider the implications very serious and appaulogise on my part for all inappropriate actions that have occured associated with our Sundance.

This is why I OBJECT TO OUR PEOPLE MARRYING NON NATIVE
THEY HAVE NO RESPECT FOR OUR TRADITIONS.
Any real indian person would never make these kind of bragging, demeaning statements.

What are the Native people doing in Europe when there own people need help?
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: ironbuffalo on August 30, 2007, 02:34:58 pm
WOW! >:(

I am a pipe carrier with seven years of piercing scars on my arms and hands. I do not take these accusations lightly. If they 'are' true, I consider the implications very serious and appaulogise on my part for all inappropriate actions that have occured associated with our Sundance.

This is why I OBJECT TO OUR PEOPLE MARRYING NON NATIVE
THEY HAVE NO RESPECT FOR OUR TRADITIONS.
Any real indian person would never make these kind of bragging, demeaning statements.

What are the Native people doing in Europe when there own people need help?

 You hit the nail right on the head.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: Ingeborg on August 30, 2007, 05:22:56 pm

I checked and found several events/seminars by Pablo Russell in different European countries in the near future, like Germany, Denmark, and Czechia. Below are just a few examples:

http://www.artemisia.de/

Quote
Sunday, Sept 30 - Monday, Oct 1 - SOLD OUT

Medicine Wheel I - counseling and healing through the sacred circle
For beginners or for those who want to 'brush up'

The term 'the circle' is a possibility to express the relatedness of all things with each other. It is a perspective in which one affirms one's own experience of the physical world, the world of events, of emotions, of thoughts, and of replationships. The Indians called this circle of life 'the medicine wheel'. By explaining the medicine wheel Pablo Russell gives us a deep insight into understanding life and enables practical counceling. He explains the different stages of life of a person (birth, youth, adult, elder person) on the medicine wheel as well as the development of love, of faith, of trust and of sharing within these stages and their deeper meaning in the life of a person. Participants of this seminar will learn to integrate this knowledge into their own lives and start a path of healing. A healing which takes place on all four levels, the emotional, the mental, the physical and the spiritual level.

Pablo Russell is a fullblood Indian of the Blackfoot Tribe in Alberta, Canada. His Indian name is "Shooting in the air". He is an Elder of his tribe, a respected teacher, medicineman, sundancer and sundance leader. Pablo was brought up by his grandparents with the Blood Indians and the traditional and secret knowledge of his tribe was given to him in the direct line. Pablo Russell is an extremely charismatic personality and a great story teller who
touches and opens the hearts of people with his humourous and sensitive ways.

Please bring: As we will organize a sweatlodge in the evening, you will receive a list of things to bring along when you book the event.

Fee: EURO 200 incl. sweatlodge

Medicine Wheel 2 - Medicine Wheel I contd.
Fee: EURO 100

.....................

The following is taken from Russell's website; please take due note it's a dot-com offering info in several languages. Most of the information on events, however, seems to be in the Danish language section:

http://www.pablorussell.com/index.php?id=arrangementer

Quote
Blackfoot sweatlodge ceremonies, lecture, dance, songs, workshop about the medicine wheel
With this site we will try and gather info on all arrangements of Pablo Russell and the persons he cooperates with and all places he got invited to for leading something in Denmark.

Island of Fyn, Sept 2007:

Sept 8, 2007
Building of a new sweatlodge, followed by a sweatlodge ceremony led by Joe Irmer from Germany.
Read more on sundance leader Joe Irmer at www.duebbekold.de
(Translator's note: one of the things the reader will learn about Irmer is that he has been made a Bishop by the Blackfoot nation, so he now claims to be the highest ranking representative of an indigenous nation in Europe! Irmer claims to have cooperated with Morris Crow, too.)
 

Sept 18-20
Pablo Russell comes to Strandbo in Svendborg
There will be two days of vision quest, workshop on medicine wheel, lecture, and sweatlodge etc.

Tuesday, 18 - lecture in Arhus
Wednesday, 19 - lecture in Copenhagen
Thursday 20 - sweatlodge
Thursday/Friday 20/21 - 2-day workshop medicine wheel Part 1
Friday 21 - sweatlodge
Sat/Sun 22/23 - 2-day workshop medicine wheel part 2
Sat 22 - sweatlodge
Sat - Mon 22-24 - vision quest
Sun 23 - info for participants of vision quest in 2008
Mon 24 - sweatlodge
More details click here
Register for above arrangements:
Ulla Coco Jensen StrandboKurser a/s
Skårupøre Strandvej 54, 5881 Skårup
www.strandbokurser.dk info@strandbokurser.dk
Telefon: +45 7020 6709 / Mobil:   +45 4063 1042

Sept 18 - 28, Fyn Sweat, 2 day vision quest, medicine wheel contact:
Ulla www.strandbokurser.dk

Sjælland oktober 2007, /v Pablo Russell
18.-31. oktober 2007 Helsinge/København

Planned programme:
Fri Oct 19: Workshop Helsinge:  Small dreamcatchers and sweatlodge ceremony
Time: 2-5 p.m. and 5-11p.n.
Helsinge. Pris: Workshop 250,- ex materialer, inkl. te, kaffe og kage.
Pris: Svedehytte 500,- inkl. aftensmad efter ceremonien.
(Translator's note: these prices in Danish Crowns convert to approx EURO 35 for the workshop and EURO 70 for the sweat)

Sat Oct 20: Workshop Helsinge: Medicine wheel 1 + sweatlodge ceremony
Time: 9.30a.m.-5p.m. and 5-11 p.m.
Price: workshop 500 Crowns incl breakfast,
sweatlodge: 500 Crowns incl meal after the ceremony

Sun Oct 21 - Workshop Copenhagen: Medicine wheel 2
Time: 12-5 p.m.

Sun Oct 21 - Singing and Drumming, Copenhagen
Time: 7-9.30 p.m.
Price: 150 Crowns incl tea/coffee and cake (i.e. EURO 20)

Sat Oct 27 - sweatlodge Helsinge
Time: 5 p.m.
Price: 500 Crowns incl meal after the ceremony

Mon Oct 29 - lecture Frederiksberg
Time: 7-9.30 p.m. Bringing up children as seen from Indian eyes.

Bookings for all arrangements at tel: 48 79 63 03/23 44 72 52 or
mail: zita@tisvilde.

Special arrangement with coaching forum:
Tue Oct 23 - lecture "Insights for your life"
Time: 7-11 p.m.
details at  http://www.coachforum.net/

Wed and Thur Oct 24-25: Workshop Native Laadership
Booking of workshop at  http://www.coachforum.net/
 
Sat/Sun Oct 27/28 Workshop Natural Coaching
Time 10a.m.-4 p.m.
Booking and detailed info at http://www.coachforum.net/

[...]
During the ceremony, Pablo will pour water onto the stones, drums, burns herbs and sings; some of the songs we will learn to sing with him.

The swetlodge ceremony has got 4 rounds (approx 20 minutes per round), and after most rounds you will be able to go out and cool off. After this, we will smoke the Indian pipe and have a meal, which will strengthen truths and wishes that we found out about during the ceremony.
Pablo is the one who will gather all wishes and the pain realeased in the sweatlodge and who will take them to creator. This is where the healing power of the sweatlodge lies.

Practical information:
When the ceremony starts, Pablo or someone else will explain the ceremony, what you will and will not get during the ceremony.
There are many rituals in connections with the sweatlodge and they will be done in English and Danish.

[...]
Donation of rugs
The sweatlodge will get covered with approx 60 woollen rugs, and you are welcome to donate one or more rugs for the sweatlodge.

....................

http://www.coachforum.net/pablorussell.htm

An insight for your life
With one of the most spiritual inspirators and teachers of Indian life philosophy
Tue Oct 23, 7-10 p.m., Copenhagen

Pablo Russell is an Indian with extraordinary gifts. He explains his own deep spirituality in a very practical and down-to-earth way. Meeting Pablo for many persons will be a trip to forgotten dimensions of their own lives, and
an inspiration to deal with the huge questions life poses.
The arrangement is not-for-profit; any surplus goes to Pablo Russell's work with young drug addicts.
Pablo will speak about the following issues:
- What can you learn from animals and nature
- Life, death and the great circle
- Gain a foothold in our own spirituality
- Find your own task in life
. The Indian medicine wheel
- How you can live here and now
- Find the warrior in yourself
- Leading your life, stress and relations
Pablo is a huge inspiration for everybody, no matter which age or gender. He works as a counsellour and inspirator for both leaders and young persons in Canada and Europe. The lecture is meant for all persons, young and old. Pablo Russell is entertaining and humourous, even when he talks about the great issues in life.
Tue Oct 23, 7-10 p.m.
Price: 150 Crowns

....................

Another site quotes a few examples of the knowledge Russell teaches in Europe:

http://www.ecademy.com/account.php?id=89199

Quote
Warriors Wisdom:

The Indians divide people into warriors or victims.

# To be a warrior does not mean that you must be aggressive or violent. It means that you are in balance and cares about your relations.

# A warrior put the winds in motion and starts things. A victim gets blown away by the wind.

# A warrior takes responsibility - for themselves, the family, the tribe, the company, the society. A victim pushes the responsibility away, and blames other people if anything goes wrong.

# A warrior is honest and says things short, sweet and to the point". A victim creates a web of small and big lies around them.

# A warrior respects other people. A victim judges other people.

# A warrior is in balance and follows the ways of love. A victim is stressed, confused and full of fear.

It's a life long education to find the warrior path, but it's worth working on every day!

........by Pablo Russell, a Blackfoot from Alberta, Canada

..........................

www.tipi.dk/pdf/pablo_folder_2007_b.pdf

Here we get different prices for events mentioned above, e.g.:
Sep 20-21 Indian Medicine wheel part 1 incl sweatlodge: Crowns 1,450 incl accom and food (i.e. EURO 200)

Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: Jamie Hume on August 30, 2007, 05:59:31 pm
Earth I am not trying to be a 'real' Indian person nor am I intersted in being anyone but myself. I am not native. I am getting the impression that because I do not behave in the manner you see fit, perhaps the simple fact that I am making any statement at all,  nothing I will ever say or do will meet your approval.  Am I wrong? If so I am sorry.


I have also met people that hate 'white people'...I term of convenience...that hate white people so much that when they meet a real person, they try to badger them into proving that they are worthy of their hatred and distain because they cannot except anyone who would challenge that perception they want so badly to hold on to.

Some people need to hate. Some people find strength and power in hatred.

Peace to you Earth. I am just a human being. I suspect you know darned well I was not bragging. Besides, what I said is not untypical of the way of speaking here in Blood Tribe Territory. I didn't plan it consciously to look a certain way! People sometimes have to refer to their experience. Have you seen me flinging my 'Indian name' around? No, I have been referring to myself only in so far as I have to to autheniticate my statements. You however, say little or nothing of who you are. That is fine. I am simply drawing a comparrison within this dialogue. However, people here say who they are. That is the 'Indian way' here.

I am not a perfect human being, but I think I carry myself resonably well overall. I can always grow and learn to do better I'm sure. No one here has ever told me I had to be perfect.

Peace, peace, peace.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: Jamie Hume on August 30, 2007, 06:04:02 pm
Regarding Websites!

I have not spent my time looking up Pablo Russel on websites. This is still a relatively new journey through cyber space for me. I will definatly have a look now!

Thank you for telling me.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: earthw7 on August 30, 2007, 06:27:14 pm
Earth I am not trying to be a 'real' Indian person nor am I intersted in being anyone but myself. I am not native. I am getting the impression that because I do not behave in the manner you see fit, perhaps the simple fact that I am making any statement at all,  nothing I will ever say or do will meet your approval.  Am I wrong? If so I am sorry.

I have also met people that hate 'white people'...I term of convenience...that hate white people so much that when they meet a real person, they try to badger them into proving that they are worthy of their hatred and distain because they cannot except anyone who would challenge that perception they want so badly to hold on to.

Some people need to hate. Some people find strength and power in hatred.

Peace to you Earth. I am just a human being. I suspect you know darned well I was not bragging. Besides, what I said is not untypical of the way of speaking here in Blood Tribe Territory. I didn't plan it consciously to look a certain way! People sometimes have to refer to their experience. Have you seen me flinging my 'Indian name' around? No, I have been referring to myself only in so far as I have to to autheniticate my statements. You however, say little or nothing of who you are. That is fine. I am simply drawing a comparrison within this dialogue. However, people here say who they are. That is the 'Indian way' here.

I am not a perfect human being, but I think I carry myself resonably well overall. I can always grow and learn to do better I'm sure. No one here has ever told me I had to be perfect.

Peace, peace, peace.

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1291.0

If you want more information my name is LaDonna Brave Bull
I am enrolled member of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe
my husband is enrolled member of the Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa
I don't hate white people. in fact many are good friend of mine.
This is what I wrote!

WOW!
I am a pipe carrier with seven years of piercing scars on my arms and hands. I do not take these accusations lightly. If they 'are' true, I consider the implications very serious and appaulogise on my part for all inappropriate actions that have occured associated with our Sundance.
This is why I OBJECT TO OUR PEOPLE MARRYING NON NATIVE
THEY HAVE NO RESPECT FOR OUR TRADITIONS.
Any real indian person would never make these kind of bragging, demeaning statements.
What are the Native people doing in Europe when there own people need help?


There are things a person should NEVER NEVER put on the Internet. I don't care if your red/black/yellow or white. Never put information on ceremonies on line. Do not brag about what you did in ceremonies. I am a pipe carrier with seven years of piercing scars on my arms and hands. It is a private thing between god and you not the internet.
It opens you up to abuse of our culture which is not yours.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: me.um.ndn on November 14, 2007, 11:49:45 pm
there is no such thing as med... wheel in blackfoot cult..
or mother earth....
and as far as a bufflo in the storm
well thats a old germany concept only old bull in the storm
plus pabalo talk more about his C/C alter boy days then any thing native
shots in the air didn't even go through a naming cer... to get his name tranfered
Hi jamie, how can you use your X-husbands name when you ran away with his right hand man
j.j if the blackfoot elders teachings' ment so much, why couldn't you stay 2 more day for you elders funeral
stefan you seen how indians take people up to the mountain, all with kindness and all you can do is find how us natives did not dwell on minor errors that happen but focused more on the porpuse of the trip to the mountain
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: angelo on November 17, 2007, 04:42:08 pm
i am glad somebody speak out the truth about those fake .moneyadiccted twinkie
p.russell .
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: Kantuta on November 22, 2007, 12:28:34 pm
Hi there,

interesting to read all your posts. I know very little about North American native traditions but he seems pretty fraudulent to me. It makes me angry and I can only imagine how I would feel if I was Blackfoot.

To all of you defending him, why don't you ask him to go online and defend himself?
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: Freija on November 23, 2007, 10:15:33 am
I noticed that the sites for the upcoming events with Pablo in Denmark says that he gives his part of the profit to the young Native drugaddicts that he is working with in Alberta, Canada.

I hope this is true!!  On the other hand, being involved with the selling of ceremonies and giving the money to charity - it´s like dancing with the devil.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: earthw7 on November 23, 2007, 03:26:50 pm
very true
Title: pablo russsell
Post by: sam on February 15, 2009, 01:12:35 pm
Hello my name is Sam
i was in denmark in a Sweatlodge lead by Pablo Russell
i got told he will have a Sundance in Canada and is looking for support there
from people
so i wanna know is his sundance a propper one or does he have any rigths too it?
i dont wanna run in any danger and i heard from some people he just steal away a sundance
i dont know where to research and after i read all the things here maybe its better to stand away
Title: Re: pablo russsell
Post by: Emmia on February 15, 2009, 08:35:22 pm
Hello Sam,
my name is Mia and I'm one of your neighbours, from Sweden.
I'll let the other ones in here give you all the information that you need, they have the knowledge.

As an outsider I can only say one thing, the big clue is that he led a sweatlodge in Europe.
Usually I go by what someone who comes over here to Europe does when he/she gets here.
That is usually a sign of what kind of person they are.

In my opinion all kinds of cermonies belong in the culture they were made for/created in, not on the other side of the big pond.

Take care,

Mia
Title: Re: pablo russsell
Post by: Cetan on February 16, 2009, 01:33:38 am
I knew the name was familiar; there was a thread on him a few years ago
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=574.0;all
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: sam on February 16, 2009, 08:14:27 am
Thank you for the information
iwas also looking in the internet on pablorussell.com there is a man from switzerland who is making a fast for preperation for the sundance in canada .
but like i sad i stand away from it its too strange,
sam
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: Emmia on February 17, 2009, 09:22:42 pm
I checked out the Pablo Russell site a bit more. There's even a copy of that site in Danish with a Danish domain, so there must be some money in it.

I translated some of the Dansih info to send to a Canadian friend of mine, then I thought I could just as well post it here as well.

Take care,

Mia


Fee/donation
The events are not for profit, we are a big group of volonters that work a lot of hours to make this succeed.
Costs for tickets etc and a fitting compensation for the sweat leader means that we expect a donation of the size mentioned at each event.

It also says that if you have problems paying the named sum, contact one of them for a payment plan/deal.


I can understand the fact that an organizing group has costs so they will definitely charge something but looking at the info below it’s obvious
that it’s something they do all the time. Besides this Pablo there’s a Swiss guy who does sweats and he does the same thing.

In the Danish version of the below text it says like in my translation below.
14.03-15.03.09 Denmark Sjælland
 
Blackfoot singing class and sweatlodge by Stefan Koble
Program Sjælland Denmark By Stefan Kobler
14-03 2009 15.00 - 17.30 Black foot singing and drumming
14-03 2009 18.00-20.00 Blackfoot Sundancemeeting

15-03 2009 11.00 - ca 17.00 Black foot Sweat lodge

Stefan Kobler from Switzerland, who will be leading the sweatlodge cermoni, is adpted into the blackfoot Indian Pablo Russells family.
He has been to Denmark many times before, where he leads sweats on Sydfyn and on Helsinge.
Stefan is a sundancer with the Lakota Indians in South Dakota but is today strongly connected to the Blackfoot people in Alberta Canada, where he is one of the 29 leaders of the sundance.


News
07.02.2009

13.03 - 15.03.2009 Germany

Sweat lodge, Medicin wheel Workshop, Seminar By Pablo
13 - 15 Marts 2009 Germany

Sweat lodge etc. by Pablo Russell

13.03.2009 19.00 Seminar: "The Gift of the Buffalo" € 25,- Seminarcenter Wrage
14.03.2009 14.00 Workshop Medicin wheel, € 80,-. Sorbas Garden
15.03.2009 12.00 Sweat lodge, Arpshof, , € 60,-  www.arpshof.de




News
11.07.2008

07.08.09 herbcamp Canada

by Pablo Russell
7-08 2009 Canada
The herbcamp will take place from the 7 of august (arrival date )to the 17 of august (Departure date).
 
You will put up a tipi where you will sleep the whole week and Pablo will teach you about where the tipi comes from. In the evenings there will be story telling by elders in the tipi around the fire and we will sing and drum.
 
You will pick, dry and use herbs and learn about the spiritual aspect of handling herbs. Its good to bring a knife to dig up herbs and tobacco.
 
While the herbs are drying we will make drums, rattles, ride horses, sail in canoes and visit historical sites such as the head smashed in buffalo jump. You will see the prearie and the mountains that is one magnificent sight. there will also be time for reflection.
 
For the women its important to bring skirts to wear for seremonies and herb picking.
 
Children are welcome, but ther will be no special activities for children they will be in your care and its up to you to make sure they are in a good way while you do activities if they are to young to participate.
 
The price for one adult is $1000 and for children age 14 and younger $350.

Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: AnnOminous on February 17, 2009, 11:14:46 pm
I'm not sure what all to say, other than that a person would do well to be careful of Pablo Russell.  He is at the very least confusing.  He certainly has a history of violence against women (I have known two of his ex-wives).  I guess everybody can change tho.  He recently brought back a wife/companion from Denmark who actually is not blonde this time but has long red hair instead.  I guess he's trying to mix it up a little.  ::)

Sam, I don't think you would find much support for the notion that he "stole" a sundance.  However, he and his partner Casey Eaglespeaker are starting a new dance this summer in response to their breaking away from the "main" Blackfoot Sundance started over 20 years ago by the now deceased Morris Crow.  So it would be more correct to call it a new dance, but not a stolen dance.  Rumour has it that the dance arbour will be put up on Tsuu T'ina Nation land, not Blackfoot land.

Pablo had apparently signed up some 36 europeans to come and dance this summer but word has it they are not coming til next summer.  I would be interested to know how much he is charging them to come over to dance.  The dancers here will fork out $240 but I presume it will be closer to 10X that for the europeans.  I'd like to see that information posted here.

There's a ton of money to be made in spiritual tourism.  Too bad that some make money at the expense of entire Nations.

That's about all I have to say about that.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: sam on February 19, 2009, 09:25:06 pm
thanx for all the information
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: AnnOminous on February 19, 2009, 10:25:42 pm
I hope it helps someone Sam.

I came across some youtubes of Pablo from last fall in I believe Czech Republic.  This one made me feel sad and embarrassed for him.  All that's missing is some buckskin.  Oh, and maybe a headdress.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MOwbz11zD8

After he sings he typically for some unknown reason co-opts the Lakota words Mitakuye Oyasin.  Except when Pablo says it, it comes out more as My Tacky Ass.

Here's a couple more vids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDCtXVl7hpk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51ItKyPcVIg&feature=related

Good  grief.   ::)
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: ska on February 20, 2009, 02:42:31 am
Dear Ann,

Thank you for posting these hilarious videos.

Why do humans insist on failing to use our hearts to guide our over-puffed heads?  This man only reflects the silliness of the people who want to believe that "they can get so much for so little" (as my husband likes to say).  His audience has convinced themselves that, by spending a little money and renting a large gym/auditorium, they can beckon a real-live-Indian-medicine-man to bless their wrong-headedness and their empty ego-filled fantasies of attaining spiritual ascension without having to do what all the rest of us mere mortals must do - suffer, learn, be compassionate, humble ourselves, reflect, laugh, live, cry, humble ourselves again, and repeat. 

It appears Mr. Russell cannot speak any Indian language. Notice that he does not sing any words, just vocables. Not only that, but the songs he is singing are NOT blackfoot songs at all and any exploiter could learn the tunes off of a tape.    I have limited experience, given that I am not Native to Turtle Island, but I've never seen a hand drum played like that - he seems to be quite a novice.  I don't know any Indian guys who would be willing to play in public when they are obviously not very experienced or accomplished.  Mind you, this guy is clearly not performing in Indian communities.

But more importantly, can anyone tell me - what is the sound of one buffalo crapping?

best, ska
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: kosowith on February 20, 2009, 12:09:23 pm
I have heard a number of people express "concerns" about Mr. Russell from friends up at Browning, but no one seems to know what to do about him, And to be honest many people seem to feel that he has been "led a stray by the people in Europe”  and they seem to be most concerned that he is going to harm himself and what people outside think of them as a community.

My of my “pet peeves” is that all these people seem to feel the need to say “all my relations” in Lakota.  It is on so many web pages adn I have even heard non-Lakota Indian people use it. I have had a number of people, especially in Europe, try to talk “Indian” to me, which translates into they try to speak Lakota.  I have to tell them that I am sorry but I don't understand what they are saying and that we are not all Lakota, despite what the movies say.

I watched this u-tube thing, but since I have disabled speakers at the moment I can not hear his song,  so I wondered  how you can tell that it is obviously not Blackfeet?  I would really love to know what he is saying.

Please don’t misunderstand, I’m not supporting him in any way, but as to the way he is singing – I grew up in Montana, and over the years we have been invited to many, many Blackfeet ceremonies and I have seen many elders sing this way, especially on the Blood reserve. It is different in some of the communities, and with different families, but around Star Village, Heart Butte, etc they almost never use prayer songs with any words. 

Anyway, but that is off subject, sorry.  I am just curious. and there are no excuses for his misuse and abuse of his ceremonies.  It is never, never ok to do this just for show or for money. NEVER!  Ask any spiritual elder and they will tell you that.


Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: Cetan on February 20, 2009, 03:40:36 pm
I watched the video last night and he was singing the vocable push up of a Lakota Sundance song - this song does have words however he was only singing the vocables
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: ska on February 20, 2009, 04:58:08 pm
Good morning kosowith,

In my reply to AnnOminous, I mentioned that Mr. Russell was not singing a Blackfoot song.  I didn't want to say what culture the song is from, as it is not my place.  As Cetan has revealed, the song is actually Lakota, and Mr. Russell is only singing vocables.  I said he was definitely not singing a Blackfoot song because I recognized the tune to be a Lakota song, but didn't have the right to reveal this, as Cetan does.

I used the term "Blackfoot" because someone mentioned he's from the Canada side, I think.  On the US-side of the fake border, the people call themselves "Blackfeet" - in Canada there is a Blackfoot confederacy of nations who collectively refer to themselves as the "Blackfoot Confederacy".  I believe there are six Nations in this alliance and one also calls themselves Blackfoot.

Given that the Lakota ways have been popularized and adopted by members of other nations all over this continent, it is not surprising that many people grow up with these tunes.  Some day, the people will acknowledge how much the Lakota people have given to the world. The exploitation of these songs by various people who have recorded them for profit (like Harold and Alva Thompson) has meant that many of these songs are available to non-Indians and non-Lakotas. 

You can always tell the people who do not learn Lakota cultural ways from Lakota people themselves in Lakota communities.  Exploiters will learn the songs off of a tape, but they won't know the words or how to sing them, nor will they know how to interpret the words.  They will sing the vocables (the "heya heys") but they won't know the words to the song. 

I hear many people throw around the term "traditional" but I don't really know what that means to them.  To me a "traditional" person knows their culture, speaks their language and reflects their cultural way of being in the way that they live their daily life.  Today, it seems that those with Western education are being taken more seriously.  The ones who really are traditionals are often ignored, silenced, and ridiculed, because they lack education, financial security, and ties to White privilege and Christian privilege.  Even on the rez, traditionals are often excluded from ceremonies being conducted by those who bring non-Natives onto the rez for ceremony because they don't want these traditionals to reveal the fraud going on.  And of course the ones who go off the rez do their crap away from the eyes and ears of traditional people.

Today, there are so many all over this continent who are claiming to do Lakota ceremonies, yet they do not speak the language.  Think of all the Sun Dances going on all over - what songs are they singing?  What language are they singing in?  For example, I have spoken before about a fake Sun Dance ceremony going on in the Comox Valley, in the territories of the Cowichan Nation.  They sing everything there - Robbie Robertson songs, the Cherokee morning song popularized by Rita Coolidge's singing group, and a host of Lakota songs learned off tapes (they all share tapes with each other and beseech each other to practice).  They have no Lakota singers there, the leader is not Lakota and it is doubtful that he is even Indian.

Up here in Salish territories, there's always people coming to town who claim to be "yuwipi" men, but they don't have a clue what they are doing, nor do they seem to understand what they are tapping in to.  Once, a Cree fellow up here told my husband that yuwipi was a Cree ceremony, so my husband asked him "Is that so?  Could you please tell me what "yuwipi" means in Cree?"  Most of the "yuwipi" ceremonies that are done up here seem to be connected to Native American Church, and many of the "road men" also claim to be so-called "yuwipi men".  It is very painful for my husband to see this going on.  He'll be invited to a ceremony once, but never again, once people find out he knows his ways.  And that is what always happens: those who know and won't sell ceremony or tolerate the New Age crap, will be excluded off of the reservation (and even on the reservation, by those who sell ceremony to non-Natives).

My husband (who is Lakota) has shared four simple rules with us Non-Natives to help us come to Lakota spiritual songs in a respectful way.  He says that if we can't answer "yes" to all of these four questions, we should not sing the songs:

1) Do you know the words that you are singing?
2) Do you know what these words mean?
3) Do you know who made the song you are singing?
4) Do you have permission to sing this song?

That's the way he has been taught by his Elders and he wants to share this with us.  He also wants me to share that a common man must never let his voice be recorded, nor should he have pictures taken of him in ceremony.



Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: Cetan on February 20, 2009, 06:28:35 pm
I would like to add one thing to Ska's wonderful post. I was told, and feel I can share this because it was said publicly after I was told it privately, by the grandson and singer for a well respected Lakota leader who passed on a while ago is that each Sundance song has a time when it is to be sung. There are a lot of new songs and they are good but there are the original songs and each one must be sung at a particular time in the ceremony.  My understanding is the same is true for other ceremonial songs, they each have a special purpose, you dont just sing a song because you know and like it. You need to know the reason and purpose for it.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: ska on February 20, 2009, 09:16:11 pm
Thank you, Cetan, for providing further words of caution for those of us who are not Lakota and/or do not speak the language or understand the ways.  You have given us another reason to make sure that only those who know the ways, and speak the language, should be conducting ceremony.  This will require us to reel in our egos and accept that we have a lot to learn. 

I know many Lakota people who would never dare to try to conduct a ceremony, even though they have always spoken their language and lived their way of life.  They have so much respect for these sacred ways. I know Lakotas in their 50s and 60s who are the humblest, most helpful and kind people you can imagine.  They live to support and uplift their people, yet they would not dance in the ceremony because they say "they are not worthy".  You'll find them supporting ceremony with their blood, sweat and tears, not by putting on a big performance, donning a few ill-gotten feathers, shaking a rattle, or adding a few Lakota words to the end of their sentences.  I've seen them working in the dark hours of night, when no one is watching, hauling water, gathering wood, butchering the buffalo, doing whatever it takes.  These good souls are not seeking recognition or material gain, it is a certain spiritual wealth which they are seeking that can not be measured in dollars and cents, and can never be bought or sold. 

Many full-bloods on my husband's rez have had so much taken away from them, yet they could easily give everything they have, even their own lives, so that their people may live.  We may never hear their names, because they do not brag or boast.  They know that there are people who are chosen to do this kind of work, and they are the ones who the people come to trust and turn to. They are keenly aware of the exploitation of their ways, so they are very careful about what they reveal.  They're used to exploiters coming to the rez and trying to get information out of them.  They have learned the hard way that if they share a few words, or give the Lakota name for a medicine, these non-Natives will most likely go back off the rez and use whatever little they have learned to play themselves up like they really know a lot.

My husband asks me to share that, sadly, there are some Lakotas and other Indians who are also falling into these bad ways, maybe out of desperation or temptation, because they have been put through so much suffering.  They may have been adopted away from their families, or grew up off the reservation where they have had no access to the knowledge and wisdom of their grandfathers and grandmothers because of what we Settlers have done.  Maybe they don't realize that the Lakota way of life is still alive and strong, and practiced throughout Lakota territories.  If they don't know this, maybe they think they have to re-invent the ways, and make a performance.  Perhaps Mr. Russell may have one or more of these issues.  But the truth is, there are still common men and women who are carrying ceremonies in a humble way, and not trying to change the old teachings.

best, ska
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: kosowith on February 20, 2009, 11:06:31 pm
Dear Ska,

Thanks for the message/reply.  I do apologize if my question offended you. That was not my intent and I certainly did not mean to.

I was asking "how" because, as I said I do not have sound on my computer and was just wondering how you could tell.  As to Blackfeet/Blackfoot I was following a former post.  Being from the area and having worked in Browning, Babb, Star Village, East Glacier I do know the difference.  I guess if I were to be more accurate I would say Pikuni as that is what it says in the tribal offices and is what Chairman Old Person said we should be using.  

I also do not know what "traditional" means to anyone else, especially in this day and age. Other than it gives people in our meetings something to point fingers about. It seems to come up in every tribal meeting, usually in a way that is meant to put someone else down.  I consider myself traditional in that I can still speak my first language, more or less, although I admit I am really losing a lot of it, and I still participate in ceremonies. Although these days it seems that most of them are held because of funerals. But tradition can get really complicated, or I suppose I should say for me it gets complicated.  I don’t want to put my experience or words into anyone else’s experience.  When I went to school you were not allowed to speak anything but English, ever!  When my kids went to school they weren’t either and were laughed at for "talking funny" and so refused to speak anything but English and although I am very sorry now, I didn't try to push them into it.  So I am one of those very, very guilty people that put another nail in my language's coffin.  My kids may understand a little bit, but do not (won’t) speak it and that is my fault. I admit it. That is also why I do volunteer work in the language program when I am home, unfortunately, when I am home it is usually in the summer, so other than the culture camp there isn't much opportunity, and like I said, I find that I can not remember many, many terms and often find my self translating from English.  So I absolutely can not point at others that do not speak their language.  As my auntie is fond of pointing out, “When you start pointing at someone else you had better remember that three of your fingers are pointing back at you.”  And she also says that if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem.

I also know that it is one thing for me to talk about tradition and how I feel that a person can not be really traditional without the language. But that is easy for me to say, I know my language and I am not a kid today, facing what kids today face. In most ways their lives are much more difficult than mine was at their ages. Saying that they must be fluent to be considered traditional or to participate in some ceremonies leaves them in a very difficult position. I hope that things are not as bad where you are, I would like to think that some body has it all figured out, but around here it is a big problem. I have worked for over 25 years in various Indian Education programs, both on and off reservation, primary level through university level, and from my work I have found that very few young people here speak their traditional languages fluently any more. (I personally don’t consider being able to count to ten and know your colors as speaking a language.) According to a study I just read last week that was funded by the Oklahoma American Indian languages revitalization project, in 1900 there were 47 different American Indian languages (more if you count dialects) spoken in Oklahoma. Fourteen of those have gone extinct in just the past twenty five years. As of 2006 10 of the remaining had less than 10 speakers, (8 had less than 5) and all of those speaker were very elderly.  Of the 252,000 American Indian people who lived in Oklahoma according to the  2006 census, 21,238 people said they spoke their traditional languages.  Of  these 19,000 were either Cherokee, Choctaw or Creek. (The Cherokee have an absolutely fantastic program and that is at part of the reason they list over 9,000 speakers - so I guess they should be my role model, but they also have the money to spend to do it up right)  The other 20 tribes make up the other 2,235 speakers. the problem here is that the vast majority of these were also over 55 years old.. According to various language studies these numbers are not at all unusual.  Darrell Kipp (Director of the Pikuni Institute) told us a few years ago at a meeting at the Nizipuhwahsin Pikuni emersion School, that language specialists say that by 2005 there will only be 12 American Indian languages spoken in the entire United States.  I think Canada is doing better, but I am not sure.

Don't get me wrong, I do think there is a chance to turn this around.  But it is not easy and many, many parents just don't have the energy or something to pursue it.  Often they are too busy just trying to survive.  In 2001 there was a wonderful language program at the Loneman School taught by Leonard Little Finger, but it closed after 3 years due to lack of enrolment. It was just too hard for parents to get their kids there before school and home after if they stayed for extra curricular programs. He is trying very hard to start a new emersion school, but funds are so limited, it is not easy for him. Last summer I was asked to assist at a culture camp at Rocky Boys for 50 kids between the ages of 9 and 14.  Not only were all their expenses paid, but there were going to be elders present every day, there were daily language classes planned, traditional games, crafts and skills,etc. and the kids would get a per dium and school credits for attending. The camp ended up being cancelled as there was only one child who signed up and she was the daughter of one of the camp counsellors. So like I said, it is not easy and I do not know what struggles they are facing at home so I can't judge.

The question of making CDs of ceremonial songs is another problem that is difficult to resolve. I know one of the principals I worked with said that they had used tapes and CDs made by various singers in the classes so that the kids can at least hear traditional songs. For many it was the only time they heard them. At home they listened to MTV or rap CDS. Due to distances and funding it is often impossible for singers to travel the to schools to sing and many of the kids are being raised by grandparents who can’t take the kids elsewhere to participate.  

These questions of what to do are debated everyday in the schools where I have worked. At the 2007 National Indian Education conference these difficult questions were brought up time and time again, with teachers saying that they felt that there were damned if they try to do anything “cultural” and damned if they don’t, and in the end the kids are the ones who lose.  So to end this long ramble.  I certainly don’t have an answer I just know how hard most of the people I know or work with are trying and how complicated these issues are.  I guess what we need is what the Pikuni call áisokináá (a healing). 





 
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: ska on February 21, 2009, 12:28:29 am
Dear Kosowith,

Please do not think you have offended me in any way.  In fact, it is I who should ask your forgiveness.  I am not a Native of this continent, only another Settler with an opinion which is shaped by having the great privilege of being around some Traditional Lakota people who are willing to share some of their precious knowledge and wisdom with me so that I may better understand what is happening to the Lakota people, and try to use the privilege I have been given in a good way. 

I am humbled by your words and ask forgiveness if I have sounded judgmental in what I shared.  I have great respect for your efforts and the knowledge you clearly reflect.  It is so easy for Settlers to say this and that, but what do we really know?  I know nothing compared to what you have learned and are applying in your daily walk.

It's hard for the children when, even on the rez, Christians, New Agers, the media and the Sobriety movement are dominant voices that indoctrinate them into the belief that Indian ways have no relevance in the present age, or even they make is seem as though Indian ways will hold them back unless they are mixed with white, judgmental ways. 

I did not say that people who do not speak the language should not attend ceremony, I said that they should not LEAD or CONDUCT ceremonies.  Indeed, as my husband and others have told me, the best way to come back to language and culture is through the ceremonial ways.  I would like to share words from my husband, and I realize I've made many long posts today and may be scolded by the moderators.  But here are his words:

“We have to help native kids appreciate and respect their cultures because they face mental, spiritual, and ideological genocide every day.  The children need to know that there is still a nation that is still together, that people still practice their way of life and die for it, too.  We recognize that the kids in urban centers don’t feel a link because many were taken from the reservation and adopted into white families . . . today they are imposing a way of life on our children that was never meant for them . . .  despite the myth of the vanishing Indian, there are many Indians who do know their roots, and many Indian ways are not lost. . . they tried to commit spiritual genocide on us, but when that didn’t work, they turned to mental, physical, sexual abuse . . . but this abuse of our people has also had the effect of deteriorating the thoughts, feelings, and emotions of the dominant race.  We just want foreigners to understand that we are human beings and want to live the way that was meant for us. . . if there is no genocide, then why do Indian people have to live with dehumanization every day, in so many ways?  Through ceremonial ways we can help the young people dream back their individual and their nation’s way of life. Through the ceremonial ways, we will bring our young people back into their own reality.  Ceremonial ways bring peace and justice, and are there so that the people may live”.

My point, sister, is that Indian people who know their culture are the experts.  Settlers like me need to do our own work, to stop colonizing, to stop stealing all the land and giving back more of what we have taken, to stop destroying Indian children's self-identity, and to stop stealing Indian people's ways, as well as stealing Indian people's generosity.

I talk too much.  Best, ska
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: kosowith on February 21, 2009, 12:56:58 am
No need to apologize.  In many of these things I am just talking out loud and trying to find my own way through the swamp. 

I should also mention that I work with a great number of very caring, dedicated, ethical non-Indian people who really go the extra hundred miles. We need and appreciate all those who try to help. What makes me the saddest is that it is often Indian people who destroy the traditions. it is not just those who are non-Indian who work against culture. So many people who live in Indian communites (on adn off reservation) are damaged by multi-generational abuses from the education system, the state and federal government, and even from each other. This creates identity loss and the resulting despiration that leads people into dependance on drugs, alcohol and the inability to NOT pass their pain and disfunction on to the next generation.  It just makes me cry some days.  I just can not deal with children being hurt or neglected and it is so easy to blame, but I try to keep reminding myself of the lessons my uncle gave me, and like he said when we were blaming someone or something.  "Is that an reason to quit or just an excuse to not try to do better?" Usually, for me it was just an excuse. 

But, it is not all sadness.  I also experience many days of unspeakable wonder and beauty.  Just the other day I heard a little (unrelated) 4 year old tell my auntie,  "g' eh Ne' naestse!" - which is baby talk for grandma (in the honorific way) come here!  It made us all clap with joy. So try not to be negative and I continue to pray that we will survive this time too.  Every morning is at least another chance to try.

Take care -
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: sam on February 22, 2009, 03:37:11 am
yeah it helps a lot i got clear not to trust everybody who claims to be a medicinman.
its so sad to see how people get abused in this ways.and bring themself into this situations.
i got also a e-mail invitation to go to a sweat in germany lead by p.russell price taxe 60 euro
but who can putt a stop to it to sell ceremonies?
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: sam on August 19, 2009, 08:39:09 pm
hi i wanna post a follower of pablo Russell
his name is Ernest Ferrer
his Website can picarola
he charge for Sweats and other New Age Stuff
He is clever enough to set the pricetaxe not on the internet.
He works together with a Man namesa Joe Irmer who claims to be a Mainbishop
from Europe from a blackfoot sundance he charge money too for his Sweats
his Website is duebbekold.de
it seems it getting big to brunch out to sell holy ceremonies.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: naapiakii on March 23, 2010, 10:55:10 am
I must say something here. 

Ska I like what you have to say about language.  Now, this too you must know: Pablo's first language is indeed Blackfoot.  He is Kainai (Blood) and is in many ways, a traditional person in his roots, having had much of his upbringing as his grandmothers 'eldest grandchild'.  She was as second mother to him.  He knows many old stories, and he did not even learn english until he went to school.  He has a very traditional family actually.

As a young man, he was more into rodeo than ceremonies.  (There were many many years where ceremony was a secret affair on reserves, and everyone was encouraged to be catholic cowboys instead.)  Eventually though, Pablo found his was though that and became a Sundancer.  His elder, and second father, Morris Crow, brought the Lakota sundance lodge to the Blood reserve, by gifting elders in S Dakota and earning the rites as per protocal.  Pablo, in turn, did receive those rites.  He has danced more times than any other person I have met.  This all happened many years ago, and it is just recently that some of this is being relaized, and coming in to the bigger picture.

So for the last 10 years or so pablo has been doing his euro tours.  Im not going to say whether this is right, or wrong, because essentially, that is between him and the Creator.  I do know that it isnt entirely something he 'chose'.  It sort of fell to him, and for various reasons he has been back forth across the ocean many times.  If things are as they were a few years back, then I can guarantee you he gets homesick often. 

His conduct does come into question.  Is he doing the right thing? the wrong thing? Perhaps he has made some foolish choices.  I know he has in the past had difficulties with relationships and addictions.  I hope and pray he continues to heal,as we all do.  He has alot of weaknesses, and also a lot of strengths.  But he most definitely not a 'fake'. 

 

 
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: AnnOminous on March 23, 2010, 03:34:54 pm
I'm always heartened when this thread comes back up.  You share some good points naapiakii (translation from Blackfoot to English: White Woman).  When this thread gets added to, the picture of Pablo Russel becomes just a little more focused and complete.  Like any human being there are many facets to his personality in terms of what he says, does and promotes.  I think some confusion arises sometimes over the numerous possible definitions of fake vs fraud.  This website has a definition, and there are others (google "plastic shaman" for some other possibilities).  In Pablo's case, one could never argue whether or not he is First Nations.  Indeed he is a card-carrying member of the Kainai First Nations.  Blood quantum is not in dispute here.  Whether he practices a fraudulent and therefore dangerous brand of fake spirituality is.

Some problems:

He charges for ceremony.
He takes his teachings off-rez and proselytizes to euros for money.
His sundances and sweats are primarily attended by non-Native people and not supported well by his own people.
His sundances and sweats are primarily funded by non-Native people.
His teachings include what he calls "The Indian Way"--which in essence promotes a dangerous stereotype.  There is no Indian Way, and that sort of pan-Indianism is rife with racial discrimination, masked as some sort of romanticism.  A wolf in sheep’s clothing.


But my dog in this fight is his ongoing sexual exploitation and abuse of women.  Every spiritual leader is completely responsible for maintaining appropriate and honourable relations with those s/he teaches.  When a Teacher assumes a role of power, leadership, and dependence the stage is set for exploitation unless one is aware of being scrupulous in one’s self-examination and vigilent in self-governance.  When the lines and edges of personal boundaries get blurred by one’s own sense of beauty and self-importance, people get used, hurt and abused.  We witness it in the media every day with reports of abusive clergy, teachers, social workers, doctors and psychologists.  We hear how people in positions of perceived (and/or real) power take advantage of those who depend on them to be honourable.



The fact that Pablo continues to have children with young women students who follow him across the ocean from their european homes is problematic to me.  Despite a new baby, he continues to call himself “single” and women are continuing sexual relationships with him as an expression of hero worship.  In these sorts of relationships, consent is not even possible.  The balance of trust and authority negates a true consent and so these scenarios are in fact a type of sexual abuse.

Yes, he is human.  Yes he does some good work.  Yes he has some wonderful family connections and has made some honourable sacrifices.  But the same could be said for every human being alive, for not one of us is without merit.  It is when we elevate our accomplishments and perceived importance to that of a demi-god, and exploit others in our quest for more more more, that we become dangerous to ourselves and others whose lives we touch.

Sex is never never never a part of an honourable student/teacher relationship.  When a person uses the people he has access to….those people who are particularly hungry to feed themselves on his words, his message, his “exoticism”…when the vulnerable come seeking a better way of life, they are wide open to sexual exploitation due to the imbalance of power.  Pablo has learned this, and has learned it well.

I call it spiritual abuse.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: naapiakii on March 23, 2010, 08:40:08 pm
indeed, you make very good points annomninous

and you have in fact, truly bought it all into a little more focus, yes indeed the issue of crossing boundaries from helper to lover is quite clearly one of the reoccurring themes in this story, and yet it is quite a complex and layered issue

spiritual abuse and sexual abuse are not uncommonly tied together in first nations communities.  i am not excusing or condoning this, but pointing it out, and speaking what many are unable to say.  i think we all know the root cause of this legacy, ..and continue to support the healing of religious/residential schools survivors and be aware of the intergenerational trauma that continues.  most of the many first nations ppl i know are victims of sexual abuse and/ or insest- almost all actually.

i am not saying or assuming that this is the case with pablo, but making a bigger point about the communities at large, and a realistic picture.  today we have many pipe carriers, sundancers, helpers and elders that do not come from a purity vacuum, it seems we are all on a long journey towards rebuilding from oppression of persons, and ethocide of peoples.  sometimes i think that this generation has left some slim pickings sometimes, but there are those who have been chosen to carry the gifts forward to the next generation

western culture really does far divide sexuality and spirituality..."minister" brings up images of a white robed celibate or a wholesome family man.  this collective denial of the sexual nature of the 'spiritual man' does often lead to abuse of sexuality, which is actually a gift.  indigenous worldview is more apt to accept and embrace sexuality, and its connection to the sacred.  it is this contradiction which is found at very core of this common issue of such "sexual exploitations" ... it is a perpetuation of crossed boundaries, by wounded and confused persons

yes it appears pablo is one to cross boundaries that at times he shouldnt.  perhaps he has not fully learned to respect women, and the role they play in his life.  the very fact that he is still a lonely man seeking comfort in the affections of young beautiful ladies speaks to the likelihood that he still sees a woman, not fully as an alli in his work, but as an activity in his play.  i think someday he will come to understand this, and if/when it does happen he would be gifted and better guided.  i am of the belief that even his misguided actions of 'selling' (is he really doing that these days?) of ceremonies stems from his lack of womans wisdom in his daily life, an imbalance.

it is a sad story,  yet the saddest part is that this type of thing is more common than ppl might think.  there are in fact many many men who act in the same way...only most of them dont venture all the way across the sea, and end up with such a high profile, and on a site like this ....but believe me, there are ....and there are also many woman who share the story of being confused and mislead by this sort of thing....so no, we cant excuse or ignore it..... we really need to come to understand it as sisters, mothers, daughters and grandmothers, and the rights and responsibilities that entails.....  understanding our own power as women is an important part of stopping these abuse cycles, and correcting the "imbalances of power" .....we as women hold great power in the direction of our families, the fate of our men, and we need to reclaim this

but in the end, we all have to walk on our own two feet, and we are accountable for what we do... so im not going to judge pablo, he has his own accountability to contend with, and whether or not he harms .... for what we do to others, we do to ourselves
 
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on March 23, 2010, 09:16:55 pm
An adult sexually contacting young peoples and especially an adult in a supposed leadership role of ceremony.. is wrong. And it is not wrong to make that judgment and call it wrong.

just my o.

Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: naapiakii on March 23, 2010, 11:17:06 pm
I think that each person can choose what to offer to a relationship
If someone offers monogamous commitment to someone else
then let it be so, but it does not automatically entitle them to receive the same thing in return
that again, is the choice of that person to offer it
Making the choice to engage in  committal relationships is often a forum for challenges and growth
But some people choose not to...and some do, but then change their minds
and choose again

But in the end, it is a matter of choice.  And you only get what you put into it.

I doubt Pablo has ever forced someone to do anything they didnt want to do.  Hes certainly not a forceful or coy man, and hes appreciative of confident and intelligent women, not underage girls or anything like that.  But he does sleep with women that are wooed by their own romantic notions, ......and yes the scenario is also fueled by his lust and ego.  I think for the most part, he has left a trail of broken hearts, and angry women.......i guess what im saying is hes not one of those creepy ones that tries to touch you inappropriately in a ceremony or anything of that nature, no he is respectful in this way



Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on March 24, 2010, 01:52:47 am
I don't care what consenting adults choose for their self, but taking advantage in such situations nullifies the idea of consenting adults.  

That's just my O.  I don't expect anyone to agree with me.  
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: Defend the Sacred on March 24, 2010, 04:49:19 pm
I read this and I think:  it's as though we've all been brought back to square one in regards to what is spiritual and are all having to re-find and re-claim what we already know.

With respect, I ask you to be mindful of the fact that, in general, people in this forum are not rootless seekers. Many here are rather traditional and not having to question or start over. Many (most?) here are not part of the mainstream, dominant culture, so please pay attention when you start to make statements like "we all", especially when they come from a non-NDN perspective. And please stay on topic. While analysis of a situation is relevant, if you want to opine at length about your personal feelings about the general concepts this makes you think of, please take it to etc or another forum. Thanks.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on March 24, 2010, 06:24:26 pm
Ah, sorry, was replying in regards to Pablo Russell and the many frauds ndn and non who have taken to selling spirituality.. and then replied to the topic of Pablo Russell being abusive to women.  I thought I was on topic.

My mistake to use the terms 'as though we all'.. when obviously it is only those (ndn and non) who are confiscating the ndn spirituality and selling it or profiting in some other ways off of it.. and again, I thought it was on topic for this thread considering the posts beforehand that were referenced and that I was replying to. 

No offenses intended of course.  I'm obviously just a non-ndn idiot. 

Be well.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: AnnOminous on March 24, 2010, 07:07:32 pm
Quote
I think that each person can choose what to offer to a relationship
If someone offers monogamous commitment to someone else
then let it be so, but it does not automatically entitle them to receive the same thing in return
that again, is the choice of that person to offer it
Making the choice to engage in  committal [sic] relationships is often a forum for challenges and growth
But some people choose not to...and some do, but then change their minds
and choose again

But in the end, it is a matter of choice.  And you only get what you put into it.
I think you are saying that men and women have equal rights and responsibilities to choose and design the sorts of sexual relationships they are involved in.  Am I right?

I think you are suggesting that there is an equal playing field when it comes to relationships, and that men and women share a social equality that negates the dynamics of privilege and power. Yes?

And I also think you are suggesting that if you put enough into a relationship you will get good things back.  And if you “only get what you put into it”, as you say, being victimized by mental, physical, spiritual, emotional, financial or sexual abuse in your relationship is because you….

Wait a minute.  You probably didn’t mean that at all.  Right?

The fact is when a spiritual leader engages in sex with a student, it is, for all intents and purposes, sexual abuse.  The reason?  There is no mutual consent.  It is a “power-over” relationship.  If it is a member of the clergy, a teacher at school, a medical doctor, a psychologist or social worker……all of these professions have very clear ethical and professional standards to inform and decide their activities with those who have come to depend upon them for instruction, guidance, advice and support.  These ethical standards are to provide protection for the vulnerable, and accountability for those in the position of power.

When there is a relationship with an imbalance of power, trust and vulnerability (like in the helping professions mentioned above), by extension there can be no consent in a sexual relationship.

Too bad there is not a published document for ethical guidelines for “medicine men.”  But that’s one of the reasons this forum exists.

Quote
I doubt Pablo has ever forced someone to do anything they didnt want to do

In the absence of consent, this is exactly what he is doing.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on March 24, 2010, 07:22:12 pm

The fact is when a spiritual leader engages in sex with a student, it is, for all intents and purposes, sexual abuse.  The reason?  There is no mutual consent.  It is a “power-over” relationship.  If it is a member of the clergy, a teacher at school, a medical doctor, a psychologist or social worker……all of these professions have very clear ethical and professional standards to inform and decide their activities with those who have come to depend upon them for instruction, guidance, advice and support.  These ethical standards are to provide protection for the vulnerable, and accountability for those in the position of power.

When there is a relationship with an imbalance of power, trust and vulnerability (like in the helping professions mentioned above), by extension there can be no consent in a sexual relationship.

Too bad there is not a published document for ethical guidelines for “medicine men.”  But that’s one of the reasons this forum exists.

Quote
I doubt Pablo has ever forced someone to do anything they didnt want to do

In the absence of consent, this is exactly what he is doing.


my opinion exactly.. thanks for stating it clearer, i couldn't agree more!! 
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: Defend the Sacred on March 24, 2010, 07:30:25 pm
I think you are saying that men and women have equal rights and responsibilities to choose and design the sorts of sexual relationships they are involved in.  Am I right?

I think you are suggesting that there is an equal playing field when it comes to relationships, and that men and women share a social equality that negates the dynamics of privilege and power. Yes?

And I also think you are suggesting that if you put enough into a relationship you will get good things back.  And if you “only get what you put into it”, as you say, being victimized by mental, physical, spiritual, emotional, financial or sexual abuse in your relationship is because you….

Wait a minute.  You probably didn’t mean that at all.  Right?

The fact is when a spiritual leader engages in sex with a student, it is, for all intents and purposes, sexual abuse.  The reason?  There is no mutual consent.  It is a “power-over” relationship.  If it is a member of the clergy, a teacher at school, a medical doctor, a psychologist or social worker……all of these professions have very clear ethical and professional standards to inform and decide their activities with those who have come to depend upon them for instruction, guidance, advice and support.  These ethical standards are to provide protection for the vulnerable, and accountability for those in the position of power.

When there is a relationship with an imbalance of power, trust and vulnerability (like in the helping professions mentioned above), by extension there can be no consent in a sexual relationship.

Too bad there is not a published document for ethical guidelines for “medicine men.”  But that’s one of the reasons this forum exists.

Quote
I doubt Pablo has ever forced someone to do anything they didnt want to do

In the absence of consent, this is exactly what he is doing.

Thank you, Ann. I've really appreciated your comments here. Thank you for laying it out like this.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: naapiakii on March 25, 2010, 06:40:59 am
Well lets see here, the topic of this thread is "frauds and fakes" or something of that range.  I joined this discussion to clarify that indeed Pablo is not a fraud or a fake.  He may be misguided and off track, but he never claims to be something he is not.   He has earned his ceremonial rites are per proper protocol,  Annonimous somewhat agrees, but claims her main issue with Pablo is "sexual exploitation" of women.  

So I shared my thoughts on that.  It is a complex issue.  Nevertheless, that does not make Pablo a "fraud".  It might make him a "rezdawg" or a "player", but NOT a fake or fraud.  As I clearly stated there are many men like that.  Most of them dont venture overseas though, so the woman they become lovers with are most often FN, and you wont hear much about it.  Well not here anyway, ci?

I also tried to point out that part of the problem here is perceiving these "teachers" as teachers.  This is partially a cross-cultural miscommunication too.  If I go to a sweat, that does not make the person running the lodge 'my teacher'.  Teacher is something earned over time.  That is traditional governance.  

Western culture likes to put a robe or a hat on someone and have everyone else abdicate their power to them.  It is only the power you give away that can be taken from you. Spirituality is about personal responsibility, and has nothing to do with seeking through intercession of a minister, guru, teacher or "medicine man".  It is the very misconception that someone else should have spiritual authority over another that helps to perpetuate this.  You cannot give a man a pipe and expect him to entirely cease being the man he is, or simply put a feather in his hair and deem him saintly.  He is always going to be a "work in progress" and if he eventually earns the respect of people, then so be it.  And should he be respectable enough to partner with a strong and powerful woman, the he will be even more respected.  That is traditional governance.

It truly is those romanticized ideologies about 'indians' that causes lots of problems here.   Why should a couple of workshops and a sweat make someone your teacher? someone who has power over you?  

What I have learned is that we women are powerful.  That it is our strength to continue to give life, and infuse our families lives with love.  It is us who give guidance and counsel to our men.  The only power they can have over us is that which we give away.  Unfortunately there are many men who's minds are clouded with colonial patriarchy, and many sisters equally as naive.  And only those men who are blessed with a woman who knows and expresses her own power, will benefit from her gifts.

My advice to woman is to consider carefully when seeking spiritual counsel from a man.  Better yet, you may sometimes choose to seek a grandmother or sister to help you find your answers.  Know your power and use it wisely.

I really don't think Pablo is a fake or fraud.  He holds many gifts including storytelling, artistry and healing.  His ceremonies are not made up or stolen.  The ethical issues surrounding him dont negate that, he still holds his bundle and his lodge regardless.  

Perhaps at times he is the fool, but always genuine.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: ska on March 25, 2010, 02:21:37 pm
I must say something here. 

Ska I like what you have to say about language.  Now, this too you must know: Pablo's first language is indeed Blackfoot.  He is Kainai (Blood) and is in many ways, a traditional person in his roots, having had much of his upbringing as his grandmothers 'eldest grandchild'.  She was as second mother to him.  He knows many old stories, and he did not even learn english until he went to school.  He has a very traditional family actually.

As a young man, he was more into rodeo than ceremonies.  (There were many many years where ceremony was a secret affair on reserves, and everyone was encouraged to be catholic cowboys instead.)  Eventually though, Pablo found his was though that and became a Sundancer.  His elder, and second father, Morris Crow, brought the Lakota sundance lodge to the Blood reserve, by gifting elders in S Dakota and earning the rites as per protocal.  Pablo, in turn, did receive those rites.  He has danced more times than any other person I have met.  This all happened many years ago, and it is just recently that some of this is being relaized, and coming in to the bigger picture.

So for the last 10 years or so pablo has been doing his euro tours.  Im not going to say whether this is right, or wrong, because essentially, that is between him and the Creator.  I do know that it isnt entirely something he 'chose'.  It sort of fell to him, and for various reasons he has been back forth across the ocean many times.  If things are as they were a few years back, then I can guarantee you he gets homesick often. 

His conduct does come into question.  Is he doing the right thing? the wrong thing? Perhaps he has made some foolish choices.  I know he has in the past had difficulties with relationships and addictions.  I hope and pray he continues to heal,as we all do.  He has alot of weaknesses, and also a lot of strengths.  But he most definitely not a 'fake'. 

 

 


Dear naapiiaki,

I will say it once again: it is clear Mr. Russell does not speak the Lakota language.  There's nothing "traditional" about the way he is conducting himself.  If he's a traditional Kanai, why is he not speaking the Blood language?  Why is he not practicing (and selling) Blackfoot ways?  Makes no sense whatsoever.  Just because I live in Salish territories, have learned some Halkomeylem, and have had the privilege of participating in certain ceremonies does not give me the right to try to teach about these ceremonies, pass them on to others, or try to act like I have the ability to interpret these ways to anyone else.  I have never seen my husband or any other traditional Lakota person try to practice the sacred ways of other Nations.  He does not need to.  He knows his own way of life, which starts with humility, not pride and ego and showing off.

I don't know Mr. Russell, so I won't pretend that I know anything about his background, just on the basis of what I have read by an anonymous source on the internet.  But in my mind, the behavior I witnessed in the videos posted by AnnOminous was not that of someone who is well-versed in Lakota culture or ceremony.  On other hand, I could totally believe that this person is a Christianized Indian cowboy, as he seems very assimilated to White norms of behavior.  In non-Native society we learn just a little bit, then act like we know everything.  I wanted to review all the videos that were posted by Ann because I remember Mr. Russell could not sing any of the words of the song he was singing, nor could he play a hand drum.  But the videos have been removed by the person who posted them!

Your confusion is evident in the way you speak about the Lakota people's way of life.  For example, the Sun Dance is not a "lodge" as you call it.  And how could Morris Crow, who is just one man, pass on a ceremony to a whole nation?  Does not make sense.  There is no getting past the reality that many traditionals are deeply concerned about the exploitation of their ceremonies outside of their territories.

And this business of "earning rights through protocols" is kind of whack, too.   I'm reminded of the exploiters on the Rosebud reservation that sell workshops to people to be "certified" as "firekeepers" and "pipe carriers".  Hard to believe people give their money for this, even harder to see them bragging about it! I've never heard the term "protocol" used in relation to ceremony by traditional people.  My husband thinks that people off the rez are using "protocols" in communities that are disconnected from traditional practices, and these same "protocols" are often used to control others and create hierarchies of power.  Off the rez, people don't know each other and so we can get away with all kinds of fakery, far away from the eyes and ears of those who know.

Anyone who wants to learn ceremony from someone who does not speak the language is only kidding themselves about what they are "learning".

My husband asked me to share something here.  He has observed that exploiters come out of the woodwork to use the names of elders who are vulnerable (as in living on the brink of survival) or who are dead!  These Elders are not able to defend themselves against the misuse of their names and reputations.  It is very obvious to see when someone is exploiting the Lakota way just to make money or gain status, because they can't speak the language and they speak a kind of nuage, greeting card speak.   They are not practicing ceremony, they're chasing CEREMONEY.

Finally, Mr. Russell's alleged behavior towards women is worrisome, dangerous and sickening.  I pray for him today, too, as there is a spiritual price to pay when we muck around with the spiritual yearnings of others.  Consenting adults strutting their egos around each other is another matter altogether.  It makes me sad to see people claiming to practice traditional Lakota ways, then turning around and being so disrespectful of women.  Lakota ways demand a great deal of respect towards women.  They have beautiful, gentle, loving practices and norms that guide the behavior of men and women that, to me, seem deeply reverant towards women.  To this day, my husband does not talk to my mom or sisters directly, unless they talk to him first.

How can one learn anything about Lakota culture if they are willing to pay money for ceremony, follow a braggart around, or attend "ceremonies"  by those who claim Lakota knowledge but are far away from Lakota territories and don't speak the language?  The learning can not come when we are still fooling ourselves.

Pablo Russell is referred to as a fraud and a fake because he is not Lakota, does not speak the language, yet claims to know and conduct Lakota ceremonies.

best, ska

Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: Defend the Sacred on March 25, 2010, 05:16:56 pm
Well lets see here, the topic of this thread is "frauds and fakes" or something of that range.  I joined this discussion to clarify that indeed Pablo is not a fraud or a fake.  He may be misguided and off track, but he never claims to be something he is not.   He has earned his ceremonial rites are per proper protocol,  Annonimous somewhat agrees, but claims her main issue with Pablo is "sexual exploitation" of women. 

Sexual exploitation is incredibly serious. I don't care if someone learned the ceremonies traditionally and was given the rights to pass them on, if they are using their position to pressure people into sex, if they are lying to people to get sex and money from them, they are a fraud. They are exploiting people, so they are an exploiter. Someone who disrespects the people so badly can not in any way be considered "genuine".

Perhaps at times he is the fool, but always genuine.

Perhaps you could do the traditional thing here and have the courtesy to go over to the Members Introductions section and introduce yourself. Right now you're just an anonymous bunch of words on the Internet, so who knows if you have any idea what is "genuine".
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on March 25, 2010, 10:31:34 pm
I edited my posts so hopefully they streamline better into the topic. I apologize for over empathizing my view. 

I read this and I think:  it's as though we've all been brought back to square one in regards to what is spiritual and are all having to re-find and re-claim what we already know.

With respect, I ask you to be mindful of the fact that, in general, people in this forum are not rootless seekers. Many here are rather traditional and not having to question or start over. Many (most?) here are not part of the mainstream, dominant culture so please pay attention when you start to make statements like "we all", especially when they come from a non-NDN perspective. And please stay on topic. If you want to opine on your personal feelings about sexual and spiritual and boundaries and betrayals, take it to etc or another forum. Thanks.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: justanother1 on July 28, 2010, 11:57:17 pm
I accidentally came upon this forum when doing some research and I would like to comment.

I am a First Nations person.  I have known Pablo for many years and I attended and helped the Morris Crow Sundance for many years as well.  I am not an Elder, Spiritual Advisor or anyone special - I am simply another First Nations person on my own path trying to do the best I can each and every day.

I have met many of the Europeans that came to the Sundance for their own reasons, some have even been to my home and communicate with me once they go home and come again to visit when they journey back to Canada. 

There are a variety of people coming to attend ceremonies and the Sundance in particular.  Some seem to be seeking help and guidance in their own lives, some seem genuinely interested in learning our history and ways, some seem lost and looking for answers, and some that seem to  want to help make amends for past history and abuses perpetrated against First Nations people.

The thing that I like to pass along to all those visitors and new comers to our community is that we are just people.  No better, no worse that any other people on the planet.  As in the mainstream community, there are truly amazing and inspiring people that can touch your life and make you want to be a better person and help make the world better.  There are also those that for whatever reason seem to want to take advantage of their position, rank or influence and after they have affected your life it leaves you feeling lost,  betrayed and hurt. 

There are both these extremes in every culture in the world and for the most part - I believe that most people fit somewhere in the middle on most days.

The guidance that I have shared with every visitor or newcomer that seeks my guidance or story is  to TRUST YOURSELF!  One of the most important teachings I ever received (to date) is that the Creator did not leave you here with a guide book to help you on your journey here.  Instead he left you with your instincts.  Your instincts will never fail you - if you feel confused about if someone is a fake, using you or something just doesn't feel right - just take a few moments breathe deeply at least ten times and then ask the question.  The first answer that comes to you is most likely the right one for you.

When it comes to this issue concerning whether or not Pablo or anyone is a "Fraud" or doing things in a "correct way" I use some guidelines to help ME make good decisions and perhaps it may help any from your community who are unsure if a First Nations person if "for real" and can be trusted.

-   Who are they, where do they come from and what rights (traditional rights) do they have (where is the information about them coming from).
-  What do others say about them, especially those that have relationships with them or those from the same community.
-  How do they represent themselves in the world.  Do they "preach" a clean and sober lifestyle and then go home and abuse drugs and alcohol.  Do they talk about respect of all beings and then go
   home and beat the tar out of their partner.  Do they talk about responsibility and then gamble away their money and beg, borrow or steal from the people that follow them to get themselves out of
   trouble.
- MOST IMPORTANTLY!... Would I trust this individual with the person I love and cherish the most on this planet.
-  Trust Yourself - you know the right answer!

One Elder taught me that if a "spiritual helper" (my words not his) is wearing a Rolex watch or asks for money up front - RUN - AS FAST AS YOU CAN THE OTHER WAY.  It was funny when he said it but it has proven to be very wise guidance.

The first time I approached an Elder, my friend told me to give him money and tobacco which I handed over to him just after we met together and I was asking him for help.  He kindly took the tobacco and gave me back the money.  He told me that the Creator gave him his gift to help people for free - he didn't pay for it and to ask for money for what was a willingly free gift is not right.  He then told me that after (he helped me) if I wanted to gift him that it would be okay.

A while later, I attended a type of ceremony that I had not attended before and once again the same friend told me to take money and tuck it inside the blankets I was giving to the Ceremony Leader then put the tobacco on the top.  At the ceremony my friend gave the Elder her gifts and went back to sit down.  Then I gave the Elder the gifts which were exactly the same as my friends gifts.  He picked up the money from between the blankets and gave me a stern look and handed me back the money.  He raised his voice and told me that what he does, he does because the Creator gave him these gifts and there is no money attached to it.  In front of everyone there he told me to take the money out and to come back when I had put it away.

I had never met the second Elder before - he didn't know me but (somehow) he knew that I had already received the teaching that money was not to be changed hands in exchange for spiritual help.  It was an embarrassing lesson to learn in front of all those present but I have never forgotten and share this with others that I meet to help them understand. 

In the way I have been taught - you gift as you have received and with the recognition of the value for the help in your own life.  One Elder saved my son's life and I chose to gift him with how important my son is to me in my mind as I offered the gifts. 

To someone struggling daily to put bread on the table for their family-  offering tobacco and gifting  food or their last few pennies is the most precious thing in the world.  To  someone that owns three houses and doesn't have a financial care in the world the gifting would be on a completely different spectrum. 

The last thing I would like to share is that like some of the people on this forum I too have been hurt, betrayed, ripped off or what ever you can call it when it comes to learning from, so called,  "Elders/Medicine People/ Spiritual Helpers"/.  What I have learned is that there is a lesson and a gift in every experience - you just have to figure out which one is which, appreciate the gift and learn the lesson or you will be repeating it again in the future. 

In the meantime, trust yourself - when you have a bad feeling about someone or something trust it.  No matter what happens never stop trying to do what feels right for you.

Many people have given their insight based on their own experiences, their knowledge base, their teachings now everyone has to weigh that all and balance it against their own value systems and what feels right for each of them.

Wise rules from an Elder - Learn from others experiences as you may not live long enough to experience them all yourself.



Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: sam on January 22, 2011, 10:38:12 am
just gonna add about the donation fraud information that the donation goes to his tribe
no it goes to his pocket and just to his pocket.would wonder what the gouverment would say about all this big cash under the table.
also he starts to sell out ceremonies he is not suppost to run (horn society ceremonies )
together with joachim irmer he run a sundance in canada of corse the most of the ppl are white.the donation is 400 for each
but its called donations
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: AnnOminous on January 22, 2011, 07:16:21 pm
Hey Sam.  It is always good when you offer information from your side of the ocean.  This is what makes this forum so important:  That information not otherwise available gets collected and disseminated in an open forum that promotes public knowledge and access.  Personally I'm very grateful to you that you take the time to add to the collective knowledge regarding Pablo and others.  Thank-you.  I hope that other European readers will gather courage from your strength and contribute here as well.

Please help me/us understand better.  When you speak of donations, what exactly do you mean?  Can you say in detail all the "donations" you are aware of?  You mention 400......is that Canadian dollars or Euros or what?  Is that the required donation for attending the sundance or for participation or something else?  It would be helpful if you could be very clear here about what you know.  For example, I know that he charges folks who attend his sweatlodge in Calgary $20 for the CD he and Casey EagleSpeaker made of sacred Sundance songs.  On the CD, there is a specific claim to receiving one of the sacred songs while "on the mountain" (ie Blackfoot style vision quest).  Casey and Pablo sing this song on the CD with vocables only.  This song is in fact a Lakota Sundance song, and has been sung for generations with Lakota words.  Seems an appalling claim that a traditional Lakota song would be "received" spiritually during a Blackfoot ceremony, then claimed as a personal Blackfoot song where words are changed to vocables, and then sold to hapless wannabes and nuagers in a sweatlodge.

So do you have first-hand accounts of how these "donations" are received and under what circumstances?  I think there would be a great deal of interest to know more about how Pablo is conducting and selling Horn Society Ceremonies.  For those who don't know, this is the highest sacred society of the Niitsitaapii/Blackfoot First Nations.  There would be a great deal of concern throughout the communities if this claim were substantiated.

Just to clarify, Joachim (Joe) does not run a sundance with Pablo.  Pablo Russell and Casey Eaglespeaker run a sundance as a break-away dance that originated with Morris Crow, who is credited with bringing the dance back from the Lakota to the Blackfoot some 25 or 30 years ago.  Joe, like numerous other, are helpers at that dance.  There are huge differences between running a sundance and being a helper.  Repeat:  Joachim does NOT run a sundance and any claims to doing so are false.

It might be helpful for the Europeans to note that Pablo's "tribe" is himself and his family.  Of course he is going to tell the Europeans from whom he wants "donations" that this money goes to his people.  It does, but not in the sense the Euros might think.  Also there are no taxes paid by First Nations people who have an address on the Reserves.  So yes--these "donations" go in his pocket to buy the beads, buckskins and other adornments useful for tricking unsuspecting and starving Wannabes into seeing him as something other than he is. The lack of humility displayed is astounding.

It will be good to read whatever else you are able to share on this.  Thanks again Sam.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: sam on January 23, 2011, 12:49:23 pm
joachim irmer is running together with stefan kobler merce and ernest ferrer and leocadia schönmayer the fast (preperation for the sundance )
twice at the year on his place there is payment involved also he claims to be the mainbishope from europe and you are rigth he is one of the leaders at pablos sundance.
the cost of the sundance is 400 dollar and sombody told me who is participating as a dancer iff you cant affordet then you are not ready to dance.also the dancers have to come to evry sweat to get prepared and evry sweat is about 100 dollar.
pablo runs all nigth smokes but called them since 1 months again path off the buffalopipeceremonies.the money of the cd s goes to there own pocket .the sweat and sundancemoney goes to there own pocket .after 6 to 8 weeks pablo have for his lectures and sweats about 20 000 in his pocket when he leaves europe. and i know he adds stuff from the horns to his lectures .he was one day a helper for the holy
woman .and he talks whats happend in her teepee i not gonna tell what he sad because no one who dont participate should know.
the people who attend his sundance and i speak about people here in europe are scared to do anything wrong.there following blind.
specialy stefan kobler are really rude he screams at the dancer and people who are older then him getting back to be little kids .
a lot of brainwash is out there.its like a cult.one time there even gathered money for a kitchentrailer 5000 dollar the kitchentrailer never show off.but its all called donation wich is ridicolus
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: sam on January 23, 2011, 12:57:36 pm
just add the reason why he called the all nigth smoke now path off the buffallopipeceremonie is
i told some people that he have no rigths to run this ceremonie because he is not in the society.
so now there have a new word for it ,but its the same ceremonie people told me .
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: Ingeborg on January 23, 2011, 05:45:51 pm

Hi @Sam,

thanks for the info. You may also post in German language, or send your contributions to me per PM, and I will translate them to English. It will probably be easier for you that way.


:::::::::::::::::::::

Hi Sam,

vielen Dank für deine Infos. Du kannst aber auch auf Deutsch posten oder mir deine Beiträge als PN schicken und ich übersetze sie dann. Das macht es dir vielleicht ein wenig leichter.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: sam on January 25, 2011, 10:39:57 am
 :)whats about danish?
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: nemesis on January 26, 2011, 05:21:05 pm
indeed, you make very good points annomninous

and you have in fact, truly bought it all into a little more focus, yes indeed the issue of crossing boundaries from helper to lover is quite clearly one of the reoccurring themes in this story, and yet it is quite a complex and layered issue

spiritual abuse and sexual abuse are not uncommonly tied together in first nations communities.  i am not excusing or condoning this, but pointing it out, and speaking what many are unable to say.  i think we all know the root cause of this legacy, ..and continue to support the healing of religious/residential schools survivors and be aware of the intergenerational trauma that continues.  most of the many first nations ppl i know are victims of sexual abuse and/ or insest- almost all actually.

i am not saying or assuming that this is the case with pablo, but making a bigger point about the communities at large, and a realistic picture.  today we have many pipe carriers, sundancers, helpers and elders that do not come from a purity vacuum, it seems we are all on a long journey towards rebuilding from oppression of persons, and ethocide of peoples.  sometimes i think that this generation has left some slim pickings sometimes, but there are those who have been chosen to carry the gifts forward to the next generation

western culture really does far divide sexuality and spirituality..."minister" brings up images of a white robed celibate or a wholesome family man.  this collective denial of the sexual nature of the 'spiritual man' does often lead to abuse of sexuality, which is actually a gift.  indigenous worldview is more apt to accept and embrace sexuality, and its connection to the sacred.  it is this contradiction which is found at very core of this common issue of such "sexual exploitations" ... it is a perpetuation of crossed boundaries, by wounded and confused persons

yes it appears pablo is one to cross boundaries that at times he shouldnt.  perhaps he has not fully learned to respect women, and the role they play in his life.  the very fact that he is still a lonely man seeking comfort in the affections of young beautiful ladies speaks to the likelihood that he still sees a woman, not fully as an alli in his work, but as an activity in his play.  i think someday he will come to understand this, and if/when it does happen he would be gifted and better guided.  i am of the belief that even his misguided actions of 'selling' (is he really doing that these days?) of ceremonies stems from his lack of womans wisdom in his daily life, an imbalance.

it is a sad story,  yet the saddest part is that this type of thing is more common than ppl might think.  there are in fact many many men who act in the same way...only most of them dont venture all the way across the sea, and end up with such a high profile, and on a site like this ....but believe me, there are ....and there are also many woman who share the story of being confused and mislead by this sort of thing....so no, we cant excuse or ignore it..... we really need to come to understand it as sisters, mothers, daughters and grandmothers, and the rights and responsibilities that entails.....  understanding our own power as women is an important part of stopping these abuse cycles, and correcting the "imbalances of power" .....we as women hold great power in the direction of our families, the fate of our men, and we need to reclaim this

but in the end, we all have to walk on our own two feet, and we are accountable for what we do... so im not going to judge pablo, he has his own accountability to contend with, and whether or not he harms .... for what we do to others, we do to ourselves
 

I cannot believe that you actually wrote these words down. 

The sexual, emotional and violent abuse of NDN children in "boarding schools" and its multi-generational legacy in terms of trauma is an incredibly important and painful issue.  That you would even think about using this to deflect credible accusations of sexual abuse (for that is what they are) against Pablo Russell is one of the most abhorrent things I have ever had the displeasure to read - and trust me I've read some seriously abhorrent things.

If this man is a fraud then his actions are disgusting and loathsome.  If he carries some credibility re his spiritual lineage and responsibilities it increases the vileness of his actions as the abuse of trust is so great.

Your odious please for "understanding" of Russell using the serious issue of boarding schools and their legacy of multi-generational trauma and cultural genocide is a cheap shot IMO and deeply insulting to anyone personally connected to such events as well as anyone who has ever been sexually abused and, like most people, who has never even considered abusing another human being, regardless of the pain and trauma they experienced. 

Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: sam on March 09, 2011, 05:01:27 pm
in my personal opinion i think you should get your facts straight about pablo russell. About anyone for that matter. if thats what you do in life is go around spreading lies about people what good are you doing in this world.? In the first place you take no part what so ever in any of the ceremonies everything you say is supposibly true you've heard from somewhere else. you know nothing of anyone or anything so why dont you save your critizism for yourself. You want to judge someone when your the one talking abunch of non sence.?  As a saying goes. 'Speak of no one unless you've walked a mile in his shoes.'  Remember that the next time you want to say something about a person.!!

Read more: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;f=inbox;pmsg=8520;quote;u=4280#ixzz1G7fLbdiP
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: sam on March 09, 2011, 05:02:43 pm
this is what mister hiddens send me ???
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: AnnOminous on March 09, 2011, 09:10:35 pm
Sam your link does not work.
I don't know who you are addressing your second last post to.  Can you clear that up for us all?

A note to the Europeans reading this forum:

I have just heard a second woman tell how Pablo Russell seduced her and used his power over her for sexual relations.  This makes two women with exactly the same story, confirming Pablo's modus operandi with his female European followers.  The line he uses is:
 
"This is the only opportunity you will ever have to sleep with a real Medicine Man."

This sickens me to the depths of my spirit.  My heart grieves for these vulnerable women.  I feel rage, contempt and disgust for this man who uses his spirituality to sexually abuse his followers/students.  These actions are like those of a predator, grooming and then assaulting those from whom he has gained trust.

I wish ALL EUROPEANS would BAN ALL CEREMONIES being sold by Pablo Russel.  Without the monetary support of the Europeans, there simply would be no Sundance led by this man.  He is not charging the locals to sundance or to sweat.  The sundance is not possible without European involvement and money.  To put it very clearly, Pablo does NOT have the support of his Nation or the support of the communities.  He's a rogue defector, an embarrassment, and at worst a sexual predator.

Again, it is up to the Europeans as without them, Pablo has neither the financial resources nor the human interest for his Sundance to continue.  It is YOUR money that allows him to continue.  He is not being supported by the local communities.

There are many many ways for Europeans to re-connect with the indigenous spiritualities of their/your own native lands.  I would encourage each of you to do your own research on your own ancestral and spiritual lineages, and consider pursuing a path that perhaps is more honourable to your own ancestors.  Supporting a man who doesn't have the respect of his own Nation damages people on both sides of the ocean.  No one benefits (except Pablo and his cronies financially) and many are harmed.

It's a time when the Europeans can really have a profound impact for GOOD:  by withdrawing your financial support, by refusing to participate in his ceremonies-for-sale, and by boycotting his sundance in Canada.  That's a LOT of power, and would be a huge step towards limiting his access to future victims.

Please prayerfully consider.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: sam on March 13, 2011, 07:20:23 am
what i have posted is just what i got under my messages from somone under the name hiddens
and i posted it wrong under my name here .sorry
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: AnnOminous on March 13, 2011, 08:10:34 am
Thanks for clearing that up Sam.  It seemed like you were posting that to a member here, but I didn't think that was the case.

I'm sorry you received such a mean-spirited and hateful message.  That must have hurt a lot.  It would seem that this "hiddens" person is a follower of Pablo and by this message it is obvious that Pablo is not teaching Respect.  Apparently Pablo is attracting some very lost and damaged souls.  It's a pity, and I feel sorry for their vulnerability and weakness.  But thank God you are not one of them Sam.

Be strong and know who you are.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: sam on March 16, 2011, 09:44:53 am
    Bente Græbert Tiede  www.medicinhjulet.dk medicinkvinde, shaman, soldanser og adopteret af Sortfods Indianerne. Bente

                                       har igennem årene været, og er en stadig kilde til inspiration med sin visdom, klarhed, styrke og kontakt til den åndelige verden, som

                                       hun formidler på nærværende og klarskabende vis til sine klienter og kursister.

                                       Hun har været den "vise bedstemor", der kærligt og bestemt har vist mig vejen til at se mine næste skridt.

                                       Bente er fuldttids dedikeret til den indianske tradition og arbejder på at fremme udvikling og vækst både små og

                                       store cirkler i udlandet. Udover healing og trommearbejde, har Bentes traumeterapi været særlig markant og transformerende. Bente

                                       gør med en stor forskel også på globalt plan. Sammen med andre soldansere for hele verden arbejder hun for jorden, menneskeheden

                                       og helheden. Bente har "Helhed & Harmoni - Centeret for indiansk spiritualitet - kreativitet og vækst" sammen med sin mand

                                       Bjarne Græbert Tiede, som også har www.dreamcatching.dk, der formidler indiansk kunst og smykker.

 another follower p. russells
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: sam on March 16, 2011, 09:57:03 am
Coachforum Speakers & Seminars presents
En indsigt for livet
BisonMedicine wheel
Pablo Russell

 

Nu kan du møde "The teacher of teachers" -
vores egen store inspiration, læremesteren selv:
Pablo Russell fra Canada.
 
Foredragsturne i 2011:

Trommen, Hørsholm d. 13. april 2011 kl. 19.00 - Køb billet
Turbinehallen Århus d. 12. maj 2011 kl. 19.00 - Køb billet
Magasinet Odense d. 25. maj 2011 kl. 19.00 - Køb billet

Pris kr. 199,- (excl. gebyr).

Pablo taler et tydeligt og letforståeligt engelsk.

Pablo Russell er en indianer med en enestående gave: Han kan forklare sin egen dybe spiritualitet på en meget anvendelig og jordnær måde. Mødet med Pablo bliver for mange starten på en rejse ind i en glemt dimension i deres liv, og en inspiration til svarene på de store spørgsmål i livet.

Pablo Russell vil denne aften komme omkring emnerne:

    *

      Hvad vi kan lære af dyrene og naturen
    *

      Livet, døden og den store cirkel
    *

      Få fat i din egen spiritualitet
    *

      Om at finde sit formål i livet
    *

      Det indianske medicinhjul
    *

      Hvordan du lever i nuet
    *

      Find krigeren i dig selv
    *

      Livsledelse, stress og relationer

Pablo er en stor inspiration for alle, uanset alder og køn. Han arbejder som rådgiver og inspirator for både ledere og unge i Canada og Europa. Foredraget henvender sig til alle mennesker, unge som gamle. Pablo Russell er underholdende og humoristisk, selv om han tager fat på de store emner i livet.

Få en oplevelse der stikker dybere i 2011, hvor Pablo Russell gæster Danmark direkte fra Canada. Hvis nogle af dine mål er at blive et bedre menneske og forstå en større sammenhæng i livet, så er dette foredrag et must.

Program:
Kl. 18.30 Vi åbner for indgang
Kl. 19.00 starter Pablo Russell sit foredrag, der afbrudt af en kort pause undervejs, slutter kl. 22.00.
 
   


Pablo Russell

er indfødt Blackfoot indianer og medicinmand, født og opvokset på den traditionelle indianske måde i det sydlige Alberta i Canada, og hans indianske navn er "Shooting In The Air".

I en meget tidlig alder indså han, at han følte sig så tæt forbundet med de ældres viden og lærdom i Blackfoot-stammen, at han besluttede sig for at lære alt hvad han kunne fra ældste i stammen, så han kunne udbrede den viden om "the native way" til hans folk i dag.

Pablo Russell er en formidabel fortæller og underviser, og hans nærvær og oprigtighed gør ham til en person man tager til sit hjerte.

Nogle af Pablos hjertesager er relationer mellem unge og ældre, og han arbejder på et netværk der skal forbinde ældre mentorer med unge familier uden relationer og forbilleder på hvordan man bygger et familieliv og opdrager børn.

Pablo gør et stort stykke arbejde for narkomaner i Canada, og han arbejder som rådgiver og inspirator for både ledere og unge i Canada og Europa.

Jeg mødte Pablo i 2004, hvor jeg var med til hans foredrag og blev inviteret med i svedhytte, det gamle indianske udrenselsesceremoni, som er en utrolig intens og smuk oplevelse.

Pablo Russell er en oplevelse for livet, du ikke skal snyde dig selv for. Træk vejret dybt, luk øjnene og tænk så på dem der står dig nærmest.

Vi glæder os til at se dig.

Jesper Kjærgaard

Læs mere om Pablo Russell på pablorussell.com


 

Coachforum Seminars ApS  ?  Foredrag og foredragsbooking  ?  Telefon +45 70 23 28 24 ? E-mail: info@coachforum.net ? Web www.coachforum.net

 
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: Defend the Sacred on March 16, 2011, 05:15:06 pm
Hey Sam, When you post in another language, could you post a direct link to the text? I'm looking this over and am unclear on the connection to Pablo Russell. Are you wanting to start a thread on the others mentioned here?

The original page for the first post appears to be here: http://essenceofwellbeing.dk/inspirationer.html
The page also cites Kiesha Crowther as "a great inspiration". Google translation of page (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=da&u=http://essenceofwellbeing.dk/inspirationer.html&ei=X-yATcq2AoTp0gHcyPWFCQ&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CB4Q7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhar%2Bigennem%2B%25C3%25A5rene%2Bv%25C3%25A6ret,%2Bog%2Ber%2Ben%2Bstadig%2Bkilde%2Btil%2Binspiration%2Bmed%2Bsin%2Bvisdom,%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3Dmuu%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26prmd%3Divns).

I'm sure our European members could do better, but here's a machine translation of text above:
***************************************************

Danish to English translation
Bente Græbert Tiede www.medicinhjulet.dk medicine woman, shaman, sundancer and adopted by the Blackfoot Indians. Bente over the years has been, and remains a source of inspiration with his wisdom, clarity, strength, and contact with the spiritual world She disseminates at this and realize creative ways for his clients and students. She has been the "wise grandmother" who lovingly and certainly has shown me the way to see my next step. Bente is full time dedicated to the Native American tradition and works to promote development and growth of both small and large circles abroad. Besides healing and drum work, Bentes trauma therapy has been particularly steep and transformative. Bente makes a big difference also globally. Along with other soldiers presses throughout the world, she works for the earth, mankind and the whole. Bente "Holistic & Harmony - Center for Native American spirituality - creativity and growth" with her husband Bjarne Græbert Tiede, who also www.dreamcatching.dk who disseminate Indian art and jewelry.
***********************************************

This other one is definitely about Russell: http://www.coachforum.net/pablorussell.htm

Translated Page (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=da&u=http://www.coachforum.net/pablorussell.htm&ei=d-6ATZ3WMaeC0QGFs6yHCQ&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBwQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3DNu%2Bkan%2Bdu%2Bm%25C3%25B8de%2B%2522The%2Bteacher%2Bof%2Bteachers%2522%2B-%2Bvores%2Begen%2Bstore%2Binspiration,%2Bl%25C3%25A6remesteren%2Bselv:%2BPablo%2BRussell%2Bfra%2BCanada.%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DoiF%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26prmd%3Divnso)
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: sam on March 18, 2011, 09:50:43 am
www.medicinhjulet.dk/ -
this is a link to the web
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: Defend the Sacred on March 18, 2011, 05:00:46 pm
One of our members wrote privately to say this Bente Græbert Tiede is a student of Russell's.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: AnnOminous on March 18, 2011, 08:42:56 pm
Yes I will confirm that also.  She "sundanced" at Morris Crow's, and followed the break-away group Pablo and Casey Eaglespeaker created when they left Morris' and started their own dance.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: sam on March 23, 2011, 02:14:09 pm
      
News
01.06.2010

Donation to the Sundance 2011

It is possible to give a donation to the Sundance 2011
It is possible to give a donation to the Sundance 2011
Donation from all countries (except from Denmark) please use account number:

IBAN: DK 9430004845616515
Telex: 27000
S.W.I.F.T.: DABADKKK
Danske Bank
Holmens Kanal 2-12
DK - 1092 Copenhagen K.


Thank you for your generosity

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Donation fra Danmark
Det er muligt at give en donation til soldansen 2011
Donation fra Danmark kan anvende kontonr.:
reg. 4845 konto. 616515
Danske Bank
Husk at skrive ”donation til Soldansen 2010”

Tak for din opmærksomhed
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: sam on September 08, 2011, 09:50:05 am
Quote from: HIDDENS on February 24, 2011, 06:13:52 am
in my personal opinion i think you should get your facts straight about pablo russell. About anyone for that matter. if thats what you do in life is go around spreading lies about people what good are you doing in this world.? In the first place you take no part what so ever in any of the ceremonies everything you say is supposibly true you've heard from somewhere else. you know nothing of anyone or anything so why dont you save your critizism for yourself. You want to judge someone when your the one talking abunch of non sence.?  As a saying goes. 'Speak of no one unless you've walked a mile in his shoes.'  Remember that the next time you want to say something about a person.!!

Read more: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?action=pm#ixzz1XLwrNag2
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: sam on September 08, 2011, 09:51:42 am
One of does Days ur Shoes gonna walk all over you Mr.HIDDEN
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: Freija on September 08, 2011, 11:49:58 am

Read more: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?action=pm#ixzz1XLwrNag2


Sam, that link only takes me to my own personal messages. Don´t think you can send people to your private messages....you´d have to cut and paste or quote. Like you just did.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: czech on October 26, 2011, 07:54:05 am
Pablo Russell will be giving a 3-day seminar consisting of a talk and conducting sweat lodges and a pipe ceremony in the Czech Republic (in Prague and near Prague) on October 28, 29 and 30, 2011.

He does not charge for the ceremonies but there is a voluntary contribution recommended in the amount of:

Talk 200 CZK (11 USD)
Sweat Lodge 1000 CZK (55 USD)
Medicine Wheel 1000 CZK (55 USD)
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: sam on November 02, 2011, 11:12:54 am
yeah rigth they called allways donation
they find a way to make it look so good.
but allways it end up in the own pocket.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: AnnOminous on November 04, 2011, 06:13:45 pm
I wonder how people are treated who cannot, or will not (on principle), pay the "recommended voluntary contribution"?
There's many ways to guilt-trip people out of their money, and white twinkie wannabes are especially good at this.
Master Russell must be so proud of his little minions.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: AnnOminous on February 15, 2012, 09:12:33 pm
Does anyone have any information about this film?

About a Sundance

For a century the Piercing Sundance, a sacred ritual of the First Nation people to sacrifice one's self to the Great Spirit, was forbidden in Canada. It was almost forgotten when the farmer Morris Crow had the vision of bringing back this ritual of his ancestors. 29 years later this Sundance is an established sacred event for many of the First Nation People in the west of Canada. For the first time ever a camera was allowed to document a Sundance during which 16-year-old Morris Jr. got his initiation...
Producer: Vaughan Video and Filadelfia Film
Director: Roswitha and Ronald P. Vaughan
Year: 2006
Run-Time: 00:44:11
Available worldwide
Topics: Non-Fiction/Information , Culture/Tradition/Anthropology/Ethnic studies
Languages: German (original) , English (dubbed)

http://tvsales.orf.at/show_content.php?hid=8&filter=0&sub_filter=0&mpi_id=21221
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: AnnOminous on February 15, 2012, 09:18:54 pm
This video comes up on youtube when I do an "About a Sundance" search.....a bit about Morris Sr. but mostly Pablo Russell dancing and talking.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4owNdla2Uro
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: sam on June 05, 2012, 05:07:30 pm
morris wasent in at the actual movie does pictures are taken in egypt .
when they made the movie morris was really sick and past away before they finished the movie.
he never speaks in this movie .
pablo was the one who brougth those moviemakers.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: John Bone on January 29, 2013, 06:22:56 pm
Hi there,
I read this thread with growing interest.
Pablo Russell being a nuage fraud saddened me, some of the things sickened me, especially the stories about him and the young women.
Where do I start? Believe it or not, Pablo Russell used to be one of my personal heroes.
I try in English although my mother language is German.
My apologies in advance if there is incorrect usage of language.

This is my story:

I myself met Mr. Russell once about ten years ago or so.
I was a student of Biology at Bonn University and heaviliy involved in the poetry scene of the town, when a friend of a friend organised a lecture about native american culture. It wasn't an official part of the university program, but organised by students for students.
Mr. Russell explained some things about how native americans live today and that their roots were taken away from them and him was about to bring these roots back.

In my country as probably many know my people had commited a terrible genocide on the jewish people. This is still a topic in Germany nowadays, especially at universities. People today feel guilty although it was their ancestors who did so. If they could they liked to turn back time to make things right. Well, this may be why there was a lot people coming to the lecture cause many know how the West was conquered.

In the end, the lecture was nothing too special but for one point:
Mr. Russell is a great story teller, he knows how to catch your ear.
There was a young man very very eager of knowing everything about the "indian culture" especially how children were treated and if there was a kind of native american pedagogics (be4 you ask: no the young eager man wasn't me  ;)
P.R. answered the eager one that children where educated by stories and he started telling a story and
to make a long story short
after the story had been told, everybody knew that the sense of the story
was to educate the young eager man. But on the other hand the young man
did not have to be embarrassed of being educated in front of all the people because ostensibly the story was about how to educate children.

This left me deeply impressed.

Now to come back to Mr. Russell, maybe he has become a nuage fraud, but I'm sure that he at least once was a gifted man.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: John Bone on January 29, 2013, 06:37:00 pm
So to make a point:
I believe that Pablo Russell can exploit the fundamental spiritual needs of my people
because
- he 's part of a people who got nearly extinct because odf white men
- he at least once was a gifted story teller and teacher.

There also may be another reason, understood, this is only my opinion.
In the past years People in Germany have got extremely p...ed with the catholic church. Everybody knows about the big abuse of children scandal nowadays but this has been a topic for a long time! While many pro church guys said well these finds were only exceptions, many others me included believed it was only the tip of the eisberg.
So there have always been a lot of people who where on the look out for spiritual guidings and who turned their back on the churches.
On the other hand, churches are spiritual institutions where you have to PAY (!) to get your bread and whine. This money is not given to the preacher at the end of the mess or in advance, in Germany you pay a special tax if you are a member of a church. So spiritual guidance in german christianism is NOT FREE!
So Germans probably think it's quite natural to give a medicine man or a leader of a what so ever cereMONEY :D
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: John Bone on January 29, 2013, 06:41:39 pm
@ska: Thanks for the word!
I am a beliver. I need spiritual guidance, too.
Im not part of a christian church for several reasons but the money is one of them:
Jesus ousted the moneylenders from the temple!
I believe he wanted religion to be free of these material things.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: Defend the Sacred on January 29, 2013, 09:41:09 pm
I find it very strange that Germans are drawn to playing NDN because of holocaust guilt. The amends the Germans owe are to the Jews, and to the others the Germans murdered in the holocaust. Stealing from NDNs only makes the burden of guilt worse. The German ancestors (and some who are still alive) committed genocide on the Jews, gypsies, gay people and others, so that is who they have to work it out with. To obsess about Native Americans is escapism, it is avoiding the problem, and it is committing new offenses that they *are* responsible for.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: John Bone on January 30, 2013, 09:31:54 am
You're absolutly right.

But there is a little misunderstanding:
I think Germans go to a lecture about a culture on the brink of extinction because many Germans live in a state of constantly feeling guilty.
 ???
I know, this sounds odd. It's only me trying to give an explanation.
Can be true, must not.

But let's talk about escapism:

In fact what most of the Germans know about native americans is from 19th century novelist Karl May. But all he wrote was completely fiction!
He was never in the Americas. So all he wrote was hearsay, rumours and fiction.
Still, everybody reads Karl May as a child and I believe what German people makes go and "play NDN" because they want to dream on their childhood dreams.
 :o
I know, this sounds even more ... odd.
But here comes Mr. Russell and plays with them.
They re so to say waiting for a bus and he's the driver.
And this works out so perfectly because he is gifted at least in story telling.
Most imposters are gifted people.
No one follows complete morons!

Personally I know some Nuagers.
They meet every now and then to drumming sessions to accelerate peace in the world. Then they walk over hot coals or go to a sweating.
I understand that this must be a bitter pill for you.
I wouldnt like my culture being exploited like that.
But Europeen culture is by today a patch work.
And these nuagers have started to patch work their "own".
Because they got no own, sadly
or they don't like their own e.g. the gebocide history!
Yes, they are escapists!
Still, most of them come from the category "nice and harmless".
The perfect victims to imposters.
They just dont think, they want to believe at all costs, even when I tell them that they are stupid X)

Well, I'm sry for this. But what can we do?
At least your blog woke me up.
I ain't no victim of Mr. Russell anymore.
Thanks!
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: earthw7 on January 30, 2013, 03:31:17 pm
One step at a time fraud hurts people
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: Epiphany on January 30, 2013, 03:51:17 pm
Any emptiness, guilt, confusion, longing for meaning can never be "solved' by engaging in cultural appropriation. I don't get a pass for ripping off culture by claiming I'm only doing so because of I'm lacking, needy, and a victim of circumstances.


http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=574.msg28224#msg28224 (http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=574.msg28224#msg28224)

Quote
I wish ALL EUROPEANS would BAN ALL CEREMONIES being sold by Pablo Russel.  Without the monetary support of the Europeans, there simply would be no Sundance led by this man.  He is not charging the locals to sundance or to sweat.  The sundance is not possible without European involvement and money.  To put it very clearly, Pablo does NOT have the support of his Nation or the support of the communities.  He's a rogue defector, an embarrassment, and at worst a sexual predator.

Again, it is up to the Europeans as without them, Pablo has neither the financial resources nor the human interest for his Sundance to continue.  It is YOUR money that allows him to continue.  He is not being supported by the local communities.

There are many many ways for Europeans to re-connect with the indigenous spiritualities of their/your own native lands.  I would encourage each of you to do your own research on your own ancestral and spiritual lineages, and consider pursuing a path that perhaps is more honourable to your own ancestors.  Supporting a man who doesn't have the respect of his own Nation damages people on both sides of the ocean.  No one benefits (except Pablo and his cronies financially) and many are harmed.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: Defend the Sacred on January 30, 2013, 08:07:47 pm
But there is a little misunderstanding:
I think Germans go to a lecture about a culture on the brink of extinction because many Germans live in a state of constantly feeling guilty.

NDN cultures are not on the brink of extinction. They are surviving and growing stronger. Appropriators tell themselves that they are saving an "(almost) extinct" culture so they will feel justified in stealing. Stealing will not help their guilt. They are not saving a culture, they are contributing to attempted cultural genocide.

Quote
But Europeen culture is by today a patch work.
And these nuagers have started to patch work their "own".
Because they got no own, sadly

Everyone has ancestors who had earth-honoring ways. There are plenty of surviving Germanic traditions. They are just too lazy to look, or they want something more "exotic". 

Quote
or they don't like their own e.g. the gebocide history!

Too bad. They have to face that, own it, and make amends. Even if it's uncomfortable and messy.

Quote
Still, most of them come from the category "nice and harmless".

No, it's not harmless. It's ugly and racist.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: debbieredbear on January 30, 2013, 11:31:35 pm
Where do they get this idea that tribes are on the brink of extinction? Just a feww days ago, there was an article in the Seattle Times about the Klallam language and how it is being taught in schools in Port Angeles, Washington. How they have a new dictionary out and how children are becoming fluent in it once again. And anyone who wants to can Google "Canoe Journies" and find that every summer and they are explicitly a cultural event. The papers call it a renewal. I think in some part yes, but also it is what was hidden is now out for all to see. This is just where I live. I am sure others could share events that go on around them. Or not. Some of it outsiders do not need to know, because they are sacred and private. But I am just puizzled about how some many nuagers and exploiters can say the cultures are disappearing. Is it because Native people do not live in the stereotypical way that outsiders deem appropriate? Just asking.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: Defend the Sacred on February 10, 2013, 09:26:07 pm
Ridiculous "German druid shaman medicinmen" tangent split to here: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=3960.0
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: Ingeborg on October 28, 2014, 04:48:28 pm
A change in name seems to have taken place: Pablo Russell gets called 'Camille „Pablo“ Russell' in an article published at the site of Alberta Health Services:

http://www.albertahealthservices.ca/10495.asp

Quote
If an Aboriginal patient requests access to traditional ways of healing, herbal medicines or other types of cultural support in Calgary, it is likely Camille “Pablo” Russell will get a call.
A traditional wellness counselor for Alberta Health Services and Blackfoot Elder who was raised on the Blood reserve near Lethbridge, Russell knows that when Aboriginal people are sick, their road to wellness is smoother if they have access to the comfort of their culture and traditions.
“We are covering a large region in southern Alberta,” says Russell, 48, who has been a student of herbs and healing for 23 years. “I do a lot of work in palliative care and in the hospices. We have a team approach to our patients as there are often complex cases.”
Emphasis mine

Concidentially, there happens to be a respected elder by the name of Camille Russell – however, this is not Pablo, but a person presumably more than 20 years older than PR. A photo of the real Camille Russell can be seen in this newsletter at page 7:

http://newsletters.bloodtribe.org/2009/October09.pdf

But it may of course have its advantages when people inquire whether there was an elder named Camille Russell in the Kainai nation – the answer will be, „Yes, there is“.

Whether PR indeed happens to rightfully claim the first name of Camille and whether Pablo was a mere nickname he used cannot be established from information available online.

Pablo Russell's age is another issue regarding his alleged elder status. As far as information available online goes, PR was born on May 5, 1965. The above article was published Oct 08, 2014, so for what my arithmetic talents may be worth, he turned 49 some five months prior to the publication. Time enough to get used to this upgrade in age, one should assume. A traditional person, as PR claims to be, should also be aware that an age of a mere 49 does not qualify them as an elder.


There is also an advertisement for an event organised by AHS:

http://www.addictioncentre.ca/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/June-2014-Cognition.pdf

Alberta Health Services, events June 2014
page 3:
Quote
June 25
Aboriginal Health Program Telehealth Learning Series,
Traditional healing, herbal medicines and cultural support for Aboriginal patients by Hal Eagletail, Wayne Burnstick and Camille (Pablo) Russell. Register at
https://vcscheduler.ca/ahs
Call Kendra Bishop (403) 943-xxx


A LinkedIn profile for „Camille Russell“ does not carry a photo but provides the following info:

http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/camille-russell/84/970/969

Quote
Traditional Aboriginal counsellor at Calgary Remand Center

Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Hospital & Health Care

Current:
Alberta Health Services,
Calgary Remand Center

The change may have been in preparation for some time, as there is an entry on PR's Danish website (the site used to promote Russell's European ceremony selling activities) advertising a lecture held in October 2013:

http://pablorussell.com/fileadmin/user_upload/Anni/pablo_rus_randers2013.pdf

Quote
Lecture by Camille Pablo Russell


Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: AnnOminous on June 09, 2015, 08:54:24 pm
Camille is Pablo's father. His mother's name is Lucy. Interesting that Pablo is using his father's name now. An educated guess would be that he is wanting to distance himself from the reputation he has earned.

This is a link to the book Pablo is publishing:  http://strandbokurser.dk/onewebmedia/Pablo%20book_8-13.pdf

I also came across this link. Do we know who this Jim Eagle person is?:  http://jim.eagle.spiritual.counselor.bizhosting.com/sweatlodge___sundance.html

Here's an article from a local magazine dated May 2015. He seems to be consistently using his new name: http://www.ammsa.com/publications/alberta-sweetgrass/traditional-healer-says-it-comes-down-unresolved-emotional-issues

Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: earthw7 on June 10, 2015, 03:34:46 pm
Hey I am still here ;D and i have 22 grandchildren and 17 brothers and sisters plus five Hunka
my nations has only just began and we don't need no one to save us or talk for us or pretend to
be a shaman aka medicine of our people, nor do we give right for white/black people to talk for us.
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: educatedindian on June 22, 2015, 03:14:57 pm
Russell is selling his Sun Dance for $400 per person. Forwarded message passed on to me. Also included their financial report. As you can see from last year, most of their supporters are Europeans, usually several thousand dollars each.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Paul Bridger <pathofthebuffalo@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 6:24 PM
Subject: Path of the Buffalo Coordinator
To: russellp@live.ca, neilatkamloops@gmail.com

Oki ni` kso` kowa,

I trust this message finds you enjoying another day blessed by the light of Natoosi, our Sun.

You are receiving this message today because you passed your e-mail along to one of the leaders in the past 2-3 years.  Please pass this message along to others who you know may be interested in supporting the continuation of the Path of the Buffalo Sundance and encourage them to contact me so that I can add them directly to further correspondence.  If you would rather not receive these messages and updates, please reply and I will do my best to remove you from our communications list.  I have used the blind carbon copy method of sending this list out to maintain the privacy of each person's email address.  Only Pablo's and Neil's addresses should be visible.

Camp Day is Saturday, July 25.  Tree Day is Wednesday, July 29.  We dance from Thursday, July 30 - Sunday, August 2 2015!

I am writing today to follow up after a Sundance meeting held at Pablo Russell`s house on Earth Day this past Wednesday, April 22, 2015 in preparation for the approaching Sundance ceremony.  I said I would set up this communication network to facilitate our fundraising coordination efforts an all other organization for the Sundance.  Please feel free to use this e-mail address as a central contact point for questions related to organization and funding for the Path of the Buffalo Sundance, known in Blackfoot as iin'nohk'so'ko'

In addition to fundraising efforts, we continue to require a $400 CAN donation from each dancer and lead helper to cover the costs associated with putting up the Sundance.  Please consider submitting your donation as soon as possible.  The Path of the Buffalo bank account info:

Bank: CIBC (Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce)
Account name: Path of the Buffalo

Account #: [deleted]

Branch transit #: 00239 (Fort McLeod Branch)

Please refer to the attached Financial Summary from 2014 to gain a better understanding of how these funds are distributed.  Thank-you Roderick Freeman, Mary-Jo Russell, & Neil Leonard for being so transparent with the income and expenses for 2014.

Chief Pablo Russell has asked that each region (B.C., Calgary, Edmonton, & Europe) take responsibility to do additional fundraising and/or petitioning community businesses to donate or contribute to the Path of the Buffalo Sundance.  Pablo has reminded us that it is our responsibility to diversify our income in order to support the operations of our Sundance.  Pablo has encouraged us to look after these financial needs early so that we can gently rest in the certainty that all of these needs are taken care of throughout the Sundance.  It is this certainty that allows each of us to truly focus on our prayers. 

"Preparation allows us time for true reflection.  We devote ourselves to learning this way of life to be an example for future generations. Take ownership of your dance.  Be accountable for how you contribute." ~ Pablo~

"Participate and make it fun.  Working together creates a community with stronger relationships.  Sundancers lead by example.  Keep in mind that some dancers may need help or sponsorships from the community.  Let's continue to work for our prayers." ~ Neil~

When Pablo returns from Europe in Late May we will complete a signed letter requesting donations in kind from community organizations.  In the meantime, people can start having those conversations and exploring how else to gather contributions for the dance.  For example, Shana has asked her Uncle if they can go hunting together to provide the meat we need to feed the public.  Way to go Shana.

We continue to assemble an updated inventory list and prioritize and forecast our budget for the 2015 Sundance.  I have included an attached inventory list taken at the dance  in 2014.

Please respond to this e-mail to announce your intentions to join us at Sundance this year.  The more accurate our forecast for attendance, the more well prepared we can be to insure that all of our guests and supporters receive the best of our hospitality. 

"Try hard to find the inner strength!"
Sikomahkatayo
Black Panther

---------
Path of the Buffalo Sundance 2014
Balance
Projected Balance ($3400)
Actual Balance ($2310.30)
Difference ($1089.70)
 
ACTUAL $13,129
Total income $17,076
 
PROJECTED
European $10, 000
Canadian $6,400
Chief & Council $500
Total income $16, 900

Final Report summation

The final tally on expenses is listed on the above budgeted report.  We spent $13, 129 total dollars for this year’s Sundance and had projected a forecasted budget expenses to be $13, 500.  The final balance in the Path of the Buffalo account is $2310.30 (Surplus).  * I have attached the balance sheet and chequing account summary page to give everyone the final transactions for this reporting period.  The account will remain open and anyone can deposit their funds in the account for next year to save on the cost or running around or if easier to submit to the financial officer before the Sundance.  A big thank you goes out to our Elder Neil Leonard who helped out big time on getting things going by advancing the Sundance $2000, he was paid out when other donations arrived and also his contributions of $420 for last year’s purchase of the Buffalo skulls were included to this year’s contributions from the B.C group’s donations.

Donation Breakdown:
Germany         $3200
B.C            $2020
Edmonton         $2800
Denmark         $2956
Calgary         $2000
Switzerland           $500
Spain         $2800
Czech Republic      $800

Process:
This year I ensured that everyone paid the >>>required $400<<< across the board and if they wanted to give more, I directed them to go offer it to Camille and Lucy as a gift.  If everyone feels that it may be easier to just accept the extra money and put aside for them for next year this can be accommodated.
 All my relations,
Roderick Freeman  Vice President/Financial Officer Path of the Buffalo
Title: Re: Pablo Russell
Post by: earthw7 on June 28, 2015, 02:06:44 pm
oh my god i can't believe people do this :o