What do we do with them all then?

[PaxMan]

I am SO impressed by all the sincerity in this forum. That may well be its most distinguishing trait, and perhaps indigenous peoples' most distinguishing trait too.

I am honored to have my own weak voice find its place here. Thank you.

As I read, and read, and absorb all that I can here, I am left wondering:
What then, do we, individually, and collectively, do with all the nonNatives who walk among us, who pass rules which affect us, who manufacture the products which we are using right now and are dependent on, and who also are as lost as they were when they first arrived? IF/when they know their own religions failed them, and they are left spiritually starving, and come knocking at our Indigenous (or what they misperceive as Indigenous) door - is it not in our best interest to give them SOMETHING sustainable and real? To let them continue to mismanage everything which affects our lives is not working. Ok, this is far out - but do you think there could be a council of tribes to come up with a basic - "Here it is - you may have this from us, collectively, as it will set you straight, not just about what you have done, and what you are NOT entitled to do, but also here is what you CAN do - as it will make you more human, more responsible, from the inside out - it is NOT an imitation of any of our traditions, it is instead the distillation of what it means to walk this earth as a human being - to treat all llife with respect...
They want something from us because they are starving. They are eating 'junk food' when they latch on to a synthetic representation of us.  If they need hand holding to get them to find a way to connect with Spirit, is it not in our, and our children's best interest to find a collective, perhaps tribally sanctioned way to get them there? If not, then how much longer can we continue to blame them for not behaving well? (What starving animal does!)  It may seem paternalistic, but after all, they are on our continent (in our house) and it doesn't look like they are planning on leaving any time soon - couldn't there be a unified approach to the 'white problem?'  It has not been enough to tell the 'guests in our house' to not touch this and don't go there and leave that alone.' If they are going to stay here, in our house, should we not show them how to be, not just how not to be? They obviously don't know. (And having shared a house with just such a 'guest' I speak from experience - once they learned their responsibilities, the 'rules' for each resident, things got a lot better for ALL of us. )

I acknowledge, in advance, that my words will press buttons. That is not my intention. I am earnestly seeking a way to make the world a saner place for the generations to come. And we have a bigger problem here than the highjacking of our culture - I ask you to look to the CAUSE of that highjacking, and then to OUR ability to treat the CAUSE not just its symptoms.  Again, why help them? Because if we don't they will continue to hurt our children - that's what makes it our responsibility.

Thank you for hearing me.

[educatedindian]

http://www.geocities.com/ourredearth/help.html

http://www.geocities.com/ourredearth/rabl.html

These questions have come up before. The links talk about what non-NDNs should do instead of becoming Nuagers. I've always said I'd be happier if people were just satisfied with being good people, no need for "I wanna be a super shaman of lost exotic Indians."

Part of what you're asking is why don't we give them the real thing instead of false versions. And what most of us say is, this is not meant for anyone except the peoples whose traditions it sprang from. It can't be transferred over.

And we've also seen a great many frauds who proclaim "I've got the real thing...Not like those OTHERS...I'm different."

But as far as teaching what Native ethics are, Native worldviews, that is something I'm more than happy to see. And it's something which has already been done and had a great impact in things like the environmental movement, feminism, and even the US military.

[PaxMan]

Gotcha. Makes sense.

When you, Educated Indian, say:

"These questions have come up before. The links talk about what non-NDNs should do instead of becoming Nuagers. I've always said I'd be happier if people were just satisfied with being good people, no need for "I wanna be a super shaman of lost exotic Indians."

...makes SO MUCH SENSE - indeed, isn't that all Indiginous peoples have been doing, and trying to do, for...ever! Simply be Good People!  Thank you. (I like your wit too  )

Next, you stated:

"Part of what you're asking is why don't we give them the real thing instead of false versions. And what most of us say is, this is not meant for anyone except the peoples whose traditions it sprang from. It can't be transferred over."

Totally agree. I was not, however, envisioning giving them anything that was unique to a specific culture, (like the Pipe, a Song, a specific Ceremony) I was thinking of...the word I used was 'distillation' - as in trace back the origins of our own ways and you come up with that common thread, that united base, the connection with earth and reverance for all life. Dismantling all the layers of misperception would have to precede giving them anything, otherwise it's just adding the truth on top of a steaming garbage heap of falsehood. ("Toss a good apple into a barrel of rotten ones and it never turns the rotten apples into a good one!")

You continued:

"And we've also seen a great many frauds who proclaim "I've got the real thing...Not like those OTHERS...I'm different."

I TOTALLY agree! Historically there is NO record of ANY tribe arguing about anyone else's spirituality/religious practices. One of the reasons is RESPECT and the other is no one would have imagined somebody flaunting THEIR road to becoming human as the ONLY one, or the better one.


Here is where I am humbled:

"But as far as teaching what Native ethics are, Native worldviews, that is something I'm more than happy to see. And it's something which has already been done and had a great impact in things like the environmental movement, feminism, and even the US military."

EducatedIndian - you are SO right. I was unaware of any influence on the military and want to leanr more! Also, do you have links to any of those speakers, leaders, YOU would hold in esteem - who have contributed Native Ethics and Worldviews to the nonNative society? It seems everybody is put down somewhere, and I get lost in the tangle of who to believe, look up to, emulate.

Thank you, profoundly, I thank you.