Author Topic: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows  (Read 116414 times)

Offline FACTS, ANYONE?

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Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #75 on: October 26, 2008, 12:19:32 am »
[IMPORTANT NOTE:
FA is none other than John Martin AKA Tallsoldier77 and more than two dozen other sockpuppet IDs. The IP of FA matches that of others used by Martin.

Martin a violent fanatic supporter of white supremacist David Yeagley and associate of Nuage promoter John Lekay.

It seems that Mr. Martin has added Amylee to the list of Nuage frauds and imposters he defends.]



[Spam removed]

FACT: According to Educated Indian - he went to the time and expense of getting one of those computerized scams that gives you that system's best guess (more about that later) about a person named "Amylee Schwartz." WHAT? You can't even correctly spell the name of the imaginary person you are trying to research....
[Childish insults removed]

FACT: I have seen no FACTUAL information that Amylee Swartz OR Schwartz's biological geneology is remotely represented here.

FACT: [Childish insults removed, also falsehoods from white supremacists] IF we are to pretend to believe the information listed is somehow related to AmyLee - then we don't get too far into it without questioning Educated Indian's bold and daring declaration that "They've been traced all the way back to Europe, every last one of them."  The actual FACT comes in the second name  - her alleged Father - where it lists he was adopted.  ??? The buck stops right there. You have NOT traced that man's biological family anywhere - whether or not he was AmyLee's biological father. DEAD END - right here in Indian Country.

FACT: An earlier Poster assured us that the attorney has a "certified copy of AmyLee's Birth Certificate on which the name Swartz...nor any of its variations does NOT appear." There is no legitimate reason to disbelieve that person, then choose to believe this geneology report scam.

FACT:  I didn't chase this [Childish insult] much farther - because it's all null and void anyway. BUT just because FACT finding is my hobby - try this one: According to this  [Childishs insult] report, AmyLee's alleged biological Mother had two biological brothers - who were born to their shared Mother when that Mother giving birth to them was herself 3 years old - and the first brother was born 2 years before his own father was born. 

FACT: EVEN if ANY of this was factual - the report clearly notes that the Maternal Grandmother was a GUESS! The actual word they used was "possible" - this from the same expert geneology service which apparently knows little about gynocology - listing the uncles as born to a woman 3 years old and without their father's participation.

FACT: IF (and this is a real stretch to call it even a remote possibility) these people were really AmyLee's relatives - that still leaves this report showing an adopted father with an unknown ancestry and a Maternal Grandmother who is only recorded here as a "possibility."  That leaves a lot of room for Native Ancestry! The notion that this report serves as "evidence" anywhere but in this kangaroo court is beyond rational and reasonable, and only adds fuel to the allegations that this is a hate-forum, despite its own claims to the contrary. (Personally, I'd have been embarrassed to show people that I paid for this garbage.)

FACT: My own story - I personally know of and witnessed one of the more popular scams that to this day resurfaces - relatives of my buddy at that time came up with that idea on selling people's "Coat of Arms" - (am I dating myself? I was a kid) with an alleged description of what they stood for, all the heroic attributes that people wanted to buy for themselves - you know, to feel good about their colonizing kin who invaded North America, or their relatives that washed up at Ellis Island...well, I saw firsthand how that operation worked - and my buddy - whose relatives operated it on the sly from their attic in a posh upscale neighborhood - said it was a "total scam, totally bogus."  I am certain there are some legit options today - just as there are legit geneology services.
But- start out with the person's REAL name first. 
Second spell it correctly.

FACT: The links provided by the report do NOT match the (mis)information it generated.

FACT: For the historian - and for anyone thinking "enrollment" is a viable definition of who is and who isn't an American Indian, you might want to read the research done by Dr. B. Mann - Seneca, who details and substantiates the corrupt mishandling of the entire "enrollment" process. I'm not Indian, but I sure wouldn't be waving an "Enrollment" card around if I were one - not after reading the searing indictment of that corrupt system - complete with FACTual EVIDENCE - that proved how wealthy white land-grabbers ended up "enrolled" while entire groups of Native Americans were prohibited!  The [Childish insult] Indian and Historian, Dr. B Mann, offers impeccable research. [Falsehoods from white supremacists]

FACT: In my earlier post as in this post, I am not defending (nor am I denigrating)  AmyLee and TALON, Inc. - I am here to defend FACTS - all my information in the first post was based solely on the FACTUAL evidence already in this thread and its links, combined with my knowledge of  the complex tangle of laws strangling Native American Indians. All comments were mine and not representing  Her Native Roots, Talon or AmyLee - again, I based it only on the information on this thread and at the provided links. Any rational person could repeat the same cyber-trail.

FACT: Educated Indian still doubts that TALON et al have an attorney - even though a poster said if anyone doubted that - just CALL HIM! (the attorney).
Wouldn't someone interested in FACTS pick up the phone or get on Skype from his Fulbright outpost in micronesia, and make the call? Why all this peripheral espionage - FACTS are often the simplest things to obtain! I find it baffling , and highly suspicious, that a historian would spend so much time chasing shadows when hard cold facts are a phonecall away.


FACT: SuperDog - I had to laugh at your notion that if AmyLee simply told you her ancestry then "that fact alone would get her taken off this board." You aren't really that naive, are you? There's a witch-hunt here - and ANY FACTS that anyone has offered here have been quickly denounced. Even if she turns out to be an FBI-(Full Blooded Indian [Childish insult]) Card-wagging-documented descendent of some famous Chief - there are posters here who will call for her to be denounced as having somehow offended somebody.(Rose is ready to [Racism and race baiting] her just for having lighter skin than she does...ignoring the online photograph of AmyLee's real Mother -with obvious brown eyes, dark skin and raven black hair!)  [Childish insult]The people who want to [Vicious racism and race baiting] are just baiting anyone who might possibly know anything about her so they can have that much more to tear apart. They have IGNORED FACTS that are right in front of their very noses - example - Rose's last [Childish insult] gesture defiantly asserts, [Childish Insults, Personal Insults, Racist Insults], "I say that Hawk Hollow is a fraudulant nonprofit organization that should have its tax exempt status removed!" That's [Childish insult] . If she read the actual posted FACTS and LINKS pertaining to the nonprofits she would understand that Hawk Hollow was an ADDRESS and never even had tax exempt status! So [Childish insult]! Rose, you got your wish - Hawk Hollow does not have any tax exempt status - [Childish insult]  Should we overlook the FACT that it never did have tax-exempt status! 

I am looking forward to seeing how this all turns out. I don't have a "horse in this race" except that I continue to root for FACTS - just the FACTS, ma'am, just the FACTS. (And I am wagering that there are quite a few people in the stands rooting right along with me.)

[Al's note: We don't reward childishness in here, so your dozens of juvenile insults were removed, along with numerous racist insults. You owe this forum an apology for your behavior.]
« Last Edit: November 03, 2008, 10:35:57 am by educatedindian »

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #76 on: October 26, 2008, 01:21:01 am »

FACT: According to Educated Indian - he went to the time and expense of getting one of those computerized scams that gives you that system's best guess (more about that later) about a person named "Amylee Schwartz." WHAT? You can't even correctly spell the name of the imaginary person you are trying to research.

FACT: Educated Indian still doubts that TALON et al have an attorney - even though a poster said if anyone doubted that - just CALL HIM! (the attorney).
Wouldn't someone interested in FACTS pick up the phone or get on Skype from his Fulbright outpost in micronesia, and make the call? Why all this peripheral espionage - FACTS are often the simplest things to obtain! I find it baffling , and highly suspicious, that a historian would spend so much time chasing shadows when hard cold facts are a phonecall away.


FACT- You can't read. I clearly said the genealogy was done by someone else.

And I find it amusing the fraud you defend is now someone you claim does not even exist.

FACT- Actual attorneys contact the intended targets of supposed lawsuits. They have not. If someone paid him a retainer, they're not getting their money's worth.

I don't intend to spend money on every person who bluffs and claims to have a lawyer. That'd be about one wasted internat'l toll call a month. Not cheap, just to find out what has turned out to be the case every time. No lawyer, and no case to begin with, just hot air.

Speaking of hot air, you've obviously been either reading or perhaps been in touch with John Martin and David Yeagley, two white supremacists who've come after us before and who work with Nuage exploiters. You parroted their mistake about me being "in Micronesia." Thanks for showing us either the company you keep, or the kind of nonsense you believe.

Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #77 on: October 26, 2008, 07:13:09 pm »
[IMPORTANT NOTE:
FA is none other than John Martin AKA Tallsoldier77 and more than two dozen other sockpuppet IDs. The IP of FA matches that of others used by Martin.

Martin a violent fanatic supporter of white supremacist David Yeagley and associate of Nuage promoter John Lekay.

It seems that Mr. Martin has added Amylee to the list of Nuage frauds and imposters he defends.]


[Spam removed]

FACT: I apologize for assuming you actually ordered the geneology yourself. You did not say you had actually requested it. You DID say it had been sent to you.

[Chilidish insults]
         
It is not a racist retort. I am not racist. It is not insulting - it is factual.

FACT: I WILL apologize for anything I may have written which has caused others to be offended based on racial sensitivities, AFTER You reinstate my original membership which you terminated; and AFTER you reinstate my original text which you removed, and AFTER you take a POLL of your constituents and PUBLISH it here to see if anyone but you was even insulted. (I have my un-edited original text, if you need it.)  To apologize to the forum readers based on your curious editing of my post is absurd. Replace my words and let me either defend them or recant them.

QUESTION: I want to be clear here, when you added your editorial to my comments about respected Seneca Author, Dr. Mann, were you calling ME or Dr. Mann the "white supremacist?"  Were you accusing this distinguished researcher of writing "falsehoods" or were you merely accusing me? I want to know [Defamation].

FACT: I have no idea who John Martin and David Yeagley are - but being a FACT-Checker, you can trust that I will soon learn.  I will also learn more about Makassar, Indonesia - which I sincerely thought was in micronesia, it is after all, an island.... [Spam]

FACT: I'll be back, even if I have to re-register from another computer if I get banned again.  I am also starting a new thread in Research Needed, to continue the discussion about enrollment v non-enrolled status. Since this thread is supposedly about AmyLee and there is no actual evidence she ever claimed to be (nor denied being) enrolled - I'm taking this issue elsewhere.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2008, 10:37:46 am by educatedindian »

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #78 on: October 26, 2008, 09:01:16 pm »
FACT: I WILL apologize for anything I may have written which has caused others to be offended based on racial sensitivities, AFTER You reinstate my original membership which you terminated; and AFTER you reinstate my original text which you removed, and AFTER you take a POLL of your constituents and PUBLISH it here to see if anyone but you was even insulted. (I have my un-edited original text, if you need it.)  To apologize to the forum readers based on your curious editing of my post is absurd. Replace my words and let me either defend them or recant them.

... ... ...

FACT: I'll be back, even if I have to re-register from another computer if I get banned again.  I am also starting a new thread in Research Needed, to continue the discussion about enrollment v non-enrolled status. Since this thread is supposedly about AmyLee and there is no actual evidence she ever claimed to be (nor denied being) enrolled - I'm taking this issue elsewhere.

The sense of entitlement is staggering.

Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #79 on: October 27, 2008, 01:06:04 am »
[IMPORTANT NOTE:
FA is none other than John Martin AKA Tallsoldier77 and more than two dozen other sockpuppet IDs. The IP of FA matches that of others used by Martin.

Martin a violent fanatic supporter of white supremacist David Yeagley and associate of Nuage promoter John Lekay.

It seems that Mr. Martin has added Amylee to the list of Nuage frauds and imposters he defends.]

[Spam]

Repeating myself, I will apologize to those readers who actually get to read my original words, and who then let me know they were offended.
[Followed by series of childish insults]

That Educated Indian has the audacity to claim that TALON , Inc is not taking the "moral high ground" when [Falsehoods], and further accuse them of "weaseling" is [Long series of childish insults, lies, and defamation]

[Al's note- All further IDs spamming will also be banned. If CHILDISHNESS AND RACISM ANYONE cannot grow up, we won't waste our time.]

« Last Edit: November 03, 2008, 10:39:28 am by educatedindian »

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #80 on: October 27, 2008, 09:16:19 am »
FA's reading skills are as lousy as ever. Obviously she and her potential new friends Yeagley and Martin are the racists, not Mann.

I probably don't even have to ask this, but does anyone care to respond to Childishness Anyone's demand that we take a poll to see if her words were racist?

It pretty much defeats the purpose, but in a nutshell, she went on an extended rant comparing a NAFPS member (and NDN woman) to a monkey. This included comments comparing her skin color, etc.

I don't think we really need any more proof that FA is a hardcore racist with such words coming out of her. And it is a pretty damning indictment of Amylee's supporters.

That plus a thinly concealed vow to work with white supremacists, and the lame attempt to pretend she hasn't been relying on their defamation.  I almost thought she was Martin.

To add a final point, FA herself either plays at being Indian at times, or imagines herself to have some special insight or connection to NDNs. Her email address reads in part "mohawkcommunity".

Offline Superdog

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Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #81 on: October 27, 2008, 04:21:59 pm »
FACT: SuperDog - I had to laugh at your notion that if AmyLee simply told you her ancestry then "that fact alone would get her taken off this board." You aren't really that naive, are you? There's a witch-hunt here - and ANY FACTS that anyone has offered here have been quickly denounced. Even if she turns out to be an FBI-(Full Blooded Indian [Childish insult]) Card-wagging-documented descendent of some famous Chief - there are posters here who will call for her to be denounced as having somehow offended somebody.(Rose is ready to [Racism and race baiting] her just for having lighter skin than she does...ignoring the online photograph of AmyLee's real Mother -with obvious brown eyes, dark skin and raven black hair!)  [Childish insult]The people who want to [Vicious racism and race baiting] are just baiting anyone who might possibly know anything about her so they can have that much more to tear apart. They have IGNORED FACTS that are right in front of their very noses - example - Rose's last [Childish insult] gesture defiantly asserts, [Childish Insults, Personal Insults, Racist Insults], "I say that Hawk Hollow is a fraudulant nonprofit organization that should have its tax exempt status removed!" That's [Childish insult] . If she read the actual posted FACTS and LINKS pertaining to the nonprofits she would understand that Hawk Hollow was an ADDRESS and never even had tax exempt status! So [Childish insult]! Rose, you got your wish - Hawk Hollow does not have any tax exempt status - [Childish insult]  Should we overlook the FACT that it never did have tax-exempt status! 

I am looking forward to seeing how this all turns out. I don't have a "horse in this race" except that I continue to root for FACTS - just the FACTS, ma'am, just the FACTS. (And I am wagering that there are quite a few people in the stands rooting right along with me.)

[Al's note: We don't reward childishness in here, so your dozens of juvenile insults were removed, along with numerous racist insults. You owe this forum an apology for your behavior.]

Ok....so what does this have to do with my question??  What tribe is she enrolled in??

To go Dr. Phil on ya....."A person with nothing to hide...hides nothing"

I'm just wondering what the big secret is. 

On a side note.  Don't take my question personal.  I've not attacked you and you won't really gain anything, by trying to start a fight with me.  I think you'll be frustrated by my cool head in that situation and you won't gain anything by it.  You seem to have taken the argument that this information would somehow hurt her, yet proof of the backing of entire community helps her case doesnt it???  Especially if you perceive a witch hunt.

The way I look at it....if I put myself in her shoes and someone questioned me similarly I'd direct them to my family, aunts, uncles, brothers, sisters, cousins, schoolmates, friends....all of which come from my community.  Pretty much if someone had a problem with me they have a problem with the whole community and conversely, if I did something that wasn't accepted by them I have to face them all.  Any witch hunt would meet a quick ending.

I don't see that at all in this case.  Looking for some kind of sliver of truth in the claims I've seen with my own eyes by Amylee (I'm talking sources that attribute themselves to just her and not a third party)....she doesn't have to be full-blood...she's got to have a community behind her.  If she doesn't have that then she really has no right to claim to represent them in any capacity in my opinion.  Without involvement in those communities she's got no basis for judging those communities (which she does of some Native communities and negatively so......not good behavior and definitely not of the healing variety)

I'm asking it over and over again.  What tribe is she enrolled in???

Superdog

JB Wingo

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Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #82 on: October 29, 2008, 02:09:57 am »
Actually, I for one would like everyone to see the poster’s entire own words without your editing. I, myself, have already read them as they were sent to me by the writer a few minutes after each post. From all the names on the address bar, it looks like many of your other members, and some other people of interest, may have also been sent his actual original words, and then yours, including Talon’s attorney.

 

So, please – let everyone else who hasn't already read his words, read exactly what was so offensive that you had to ban him - twice.

 

Also, it is important to note right here that he never referred to Southwest Skeptic as a "monkey" nor made any racial reference to her whatsoever – he merely referred to her own internet “squirrel??? icon that she herself uses to describe herself on this thread and on her linked website. Again - there was NO racial reference.

 

Also – the address that sent me the posts was not the one you listed, it read ConscienceRazor@live.com .   If you choose not to restore the man’s actual texts perhaps others interested could email him for copies, or even email me – my address is still the same from my first post as well as being listed in the forum members directory.

 

In your New Member Intros he presents himself as humbly non-Indian, having been married to a Native woman and suggests they might have children together. I gathered that his concern for them is what led him to this forum. It’s clear from his posts and emails he doesn’t know AmyLee, he’s just an egghead stickler for facts and clarity, and I think he may be a law student, law professor, or something similar, based on the notes that accompanied the emails.  If you don’t have the original texts any longer, I am sure some of us who received them can cut and paste them all and post them in with our own comments here.

 

Looking forward to voting on the Poll – which reminds me – Everybody registered in the U.S. – Don’t forget to VOTE Tuesday!!!

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #83 on: October 29, 2008, 03:07:55 am »
Geepers creepers .

I doubt anyone here is all that concerned about the character of an anonymous person who was posting under
 the condescending user name of "Facts Anyone".

This thread and the whole message board is about people using false claims of traditional knowledge to market
 products and services. 

People have repeatedly asked what tribe Amylee is enrolled in. Even the names of some people who are enrolled
in the tribe she claims descent from, who recognized what she is doing as traditional, would be something.

But instead it seems her defenders want to make this all about the character of a rude and anonymous poster, or the
personalities of the moderators of the board.

Quit trying to divert peoples attention from the real issues.   

Offline Superdog

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Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #84 on: October 29, 2008, 11:56:50 am »
Actually, I for one would like everyone to see the poster’s entire own words without your editing. I, myself, have already read them as they were sent to me by the writer a few minutes after each post. From all the names on the address bar, it looks like many of your other members, and some other people of interest, may have also been sent his actual original words, and then yours, including Talon’s attorney.

 

So, please – let everyone else who hasn't already read his words, read exactly what was so offensive that you had to ban him - twice.

 

Also, it is important to note right here that he never referred to Southwest Skeptic as a "monkey" nor made any racial reference to her whatsoever – he merely referred to her own internet “squirrel??? icon that she herself uses to describe herself on this thread and on her linked website. Again - there was NO racial reference.

 

Also – the address that sent me the posts was not the one you listed, it read ConscienceRazor@live.com .   If you choose not to restore the man’s actual texts perhaps others interested could email him for copies, or even email me – my address is still the same from my first post as well as being listed in the forum members directory.

 

In your New Member Intros he presents himself as humbly non-Indian, having been married to a Native woman and suggests they might have children together. I gathered that his concern for them is what led him to this forum. It’s clear from his posts and emails he doesn’t know AmyLee, he’s just an egghead stickler for facts and clarity, and I think he may be a law student, law professor, or something similar, based on the notes that accompanied the emails.  If you don’t have the original texts any longer, I am sure some of us who received them can cut and paste them all and post them in with our own comments here.

 

Looking forward to voting on the Poll – which reminds me – Everybody registered in the U.S. – Don’t forget to VOTE Tuesday!!!

Hey JB. 

I'll try this again.  You've known Amylee a long time. 

What tribe is she enrolled in??? 

By omitting an answer to this question I'm just gonna let you know that in my opinion you'd officially be dodging the question and I'm gonna have to go under the assumption based on the evidence that Amylee is not enrolled in any tribe, but only has an ancestral affiliation from a set of grandparents who voluntarily left their community behind.

I hate to do it, but I'm gonna call  you out because I don't believe this information is known as it would be helpful to your assertions in this conversation..  Either you don't know the information which means you don't know Amylee on the level you claim to know her or that information doesn't exist which means Amylee is fabricating a lot of the selling points of her products and you're protecting her.

So can you answer the question??

Superdog
« Last Edit: October 29, 2008, 03:17:07 pm by Superdog »

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #85 on: November 01, 2008, 01:43:13 am »
It seems Wingo has given a pretty direct answer. He's fled the forum. We can take that as a No, he either does not know if she's actually NDN, or he's refusing to reveal it out of fear of the legal consequences. After all, as her agent he books appearances and promotes her and her business. He makes a profit himself from possibly legally dubious activity that has been reported to the IRS as needing investigation as fraudulent. Taking the fifth, as he's more or less doing, makes legal sense. But it doesn't help the credibility of Amylee and her inner circle that's come here and fallen flat on their faces repeatedly when they defend her or her business.

It may be possible that Wingo is just extremely naive. After all, he worked for Amylee when very few NDNs would have been naive enough to fall for her claims. So Wingo's statements about CHILDISHNESS ANYONE are just as naive. I disagree with Moma P that FA is not important.

FA's email account is mohawkcommunity@live.com. The second account is, by FA's admission, a new one. I don't know if FA consciously chose to use the second one to deceive Wingo, but Wingo could have simply checked FA's profile here. But he didn't bother, just like he never bothered to check if Amylee is actually NDN, if the website or the business is breaking any laws or not. Nor did he read the post by FA very clearly (assuming FA did not alter it). He clearly was talking about and comparing skin color and race baiting.

If he's a law student, he's probably not a very good one, though he certainly has the lack of ethics many of us associate with so many lawyers. There's quite a few deliberate lies in his posts, along with a very sloppy reading of the facts, not just once but repeatedly. And his writing style is amazingly similiar to "Ojibwelawyer" and "NDNJustice," two sockpuppet IDs used by none other than Amylee herself on the Shameons board. If FA is not Amylee, he's certainly spent quite bit of time around her and also has a pretty strong emotional investment in defending her.

But Moma P is right that FA, whether a sockpuppet of Amylee or another one of her inner circle, was intended to distract and confuse people with the real questions about Amylee's fraudulent claims. That either she or her defenders would lie to and try to confuse her own agent should be yet another big red flag for Wingo, one warning him to get out and get away from Amylee while he still can.


Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #86 on: November 01, 2008, 03:32:51 am »
Al, my comment that I doubted anyone here was that concerned with FA's character was directed at Wingo quibbling over exactly
what was said, when it's obvious FA was very rude , starting with their choice of a user name while at the same time 
completely ignoring the central concerns . I do agree it's important to notice who is affiliated with who , and the tactics
people use to defend their friends. It usually says a lot about the type of people they are.

I  never read everything FA wrote before you removed it, so beyond the obvious I can't have an opinion one way or the other. Sorry
if I didn't make what I was saying clear.

Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #87 on: November 24, 2008, 05:45:31 am »
Hi Everyone, I joined because I'm a member of the organization run by Amylee that is called the Sisters of the Shield.  I came across this forum after I had decided to learn more about Amylee.  I've read each of the posts here twice and although I don't know the answers to any of the questions I had when I started looking for info about Amylee, I can comment on some of what got said here.

Amylee has a raptor rehabilitation center on her land in Tippicanoe, Ohio.  I've seen videos of the hawks and owls and sent money for the work she does.  She's listed as a class two wild life rehabber here.   
http://dnr.state.oh.us/wildlife/Home/resources/orphans/rehabilitators/tabid/6013/Default.aspx

I got started studying with her after a woman showed me a flyer from Amylee broadcasting that she would help women learn about Animal Helpers.  The money I sent each year was between $200 and $350.  I was told this was for our group's costs and that Amylee took no money for her teaching us.  We were taught however, that we are supposed to gift her at the end of the teaching based on our ability and our gratitude.  I sometimes sent presents, I sometimes sent checks.  I always sent something because I was told it was expected by her culture.  I wasn't forced and I was happy to abide by her customs.

I never had to birth a drum.  I never had to build a shield.  I never had to leave my family or shut up if I asked the wrong question.  I was taught how to make small shields that had two sides.  These sides were representational art of how I presented myself to the outer world and how I viewed my inner self.  I've done this at other gatherings of women that had nothing to do with being Native American.  My interest in Amylee wasn't because she was Native American, but because of what she was saying.  I also created two different larger shields.  I still have the second one but I dismatled the first.  I just didn't feel I needed two of them.  The process was more important to me than the product.  Later on she taught us all something about using our shields as a divination tool.  I'm sure she used the term  the medicine wheel but I didn't pursue learning this teaching.  I did enjoy learning about herbs from her.  I found most of what she had to say interesting and I continued for almost two decades.  She's no longer "gatekeeping" for our group, and some of us are discussing what does that exactly mean?

I had no need to check up on her as I felt no pressure what so ever to be apart of the sisterhood until about a year or so ago.  Then she offered us all the chance to join in a business venture with her. Since I already had purchased "pods" (which are just wonderful) and herbs from her, I thought it might be an internet retail company, something useful like what she already had.  Instead it turned out to be a pyramid scam.  Around the same time she sent out a request for help coming up with money to buy the land around her Hawk Hollow.  When I offered to help, she asked me to join another pyramid scam, which she portrayed as a gifting club that uses the same principals of her Iroqois culture.  I was appalled.  When I tried to speak with her about by email, the conversation got so unpleasant that we haven't spoken to each other since.  That's when I went looking to see who exactly was this woman I'd been sending my money to all these years.

Its been a sad and interesting tale so far.

I have to go now.  Is a friend's birthday and I'm surprising her with a party in about 20 minutes.  I hope this conversation is not already over.  I do hope that Southwestsceptic will send us a copy of what she emailed out to the elders and what their actual replies were.  How you ask the question is certainly an important part of the answer you get.

I'd very much like to know which, if any clan, claims her.  She told us about getting permission from the Grandmothers to teach us, and about reporting to the elders and getting their approval for what she's done with us.  Who exactly was she talking about?

I'm not very versed in NDN affairs and I hope not to cause any offense.  NDN affairs isn't really my issue, I just sort of stumbled on the conversation here and certainly learned a lot I didn't know about the problems of cultural appropriation.

As for Amoja Three Rivers, did she really disclaim Amylee?  I bought her book once "Cultural Ettiquette" and didn't she list Amylee in her list of people that had helped her prepare the book?

PS, I'm not Amylee.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 03:52:40 pm by Pat »

Offline Superdog

  • Posts: 440
Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #88 on: November 24, 2008, 02:57:03 pm »
Hello WSS.

What you've described is what we and others have been saying all along.  She duped you with stories of "elders" and "medicine" all with the idea of gettin' your money so she can have a life without actually having to work for it.  She'd rather sell things that don't belong to her.  It's history repeating itself.  When white settlers wanted to take over land they'd go to an Indian family that lived there and asked them to sell.  They'd respond that they can't sell land, it doesn't belong to them.  So the settlers would go to the nearest non-Indian living close by and ask to buy the land his neighbors live on and he would sell it.  Then the settlers would go back to the Indian family and say "I just bought this land, it's mine and you can't live here anymore...."

What Amylee is selling to you doesn't belong to her and can't be sold anyway, yet she creates the fantasy that your happiness will come from her and your degree of happiness depends on how much you give her.  Take that back for yourself, you create your own destiny.   She can't name an elder that backs her up because there aren't any.  Her lies are so deep it's almost beyond belief.  The sockpuppeting that she does (creating anonymous accounts and pretending to be someone else) is clear.  She's pretended to be a talent agent, random individuals such as yourself, and even tried to impersonate Steve McFadden, the author of one of the books she appears in.  Amoja Three Rivers has denounced Amylee that's easy to check on as well.

You are dealing with someone who commits fraud at all levels....even in passing conversation and she takes great pains in scouring the internet and trying to remove all the fraudulent references made by herself and by others who are part of her group.  Basically as soon as something questionable shows up (such as the Iroquois Bird Flu remedy) and she gets caught and questioned on it.....it's abruptly removed.....usually the same day.  You can look around.  There are other references where she tries to claim to be a medicine woman.....there's a post on the Oprah Winfrey website where she states that and then goes back after he named appeared here again and tries to appear to be someone else using the same handle and claim she didn't mean Amylee was a medicine woman. 

In the 80's we used to have a common term for someone who behaved this way...."Mental"

Giving money to her is like giving an alcoholic 180 proof vodka.  Your post here is greatly appreciated.  What you say matches what's been said by so many others who've crossed her path, been fooled and then discovered the truth.  Hopefully others that come across her will find your words and save themselves their savings and lead them on a good path in life.  Doesn't take any money or gifts to find happiness.  Her biggest scam is that she promises the world and then if you find any happiness, you end up feeling guilty for it and pay HER to get rid of the guilt.  You don't owe her anything.  You were a strong intelligent person before you met her...you just got distracted.

Superdog

Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #89 on: November 24, 2008, 08:18:05 pm »
Hello Superdog.  Thank you for the response.  I thought perhaps this forum had shut down already.  I respect your opinion, which I'm sure is based on your experience, but no, I don't agree with you.  I am not anything like you've described.  For instance, my happiness is not contingent of spending money anywhere, including supporting the efforts of people working in the fields that are of interest to me.  I don't think what I've said matches exactly some of the vile statements about Amylee that I've read here.  I understand that people are upset and saying things in a strong way, and I can hear folks being angry.  But some of what is being said doesn't match with my direct experience so I have to disagree.  She never even mentioned the wolf clan to me, she's never forced me to do anything, she didn't even ask me to birth a shield every month, I wasn't trying to become an NDN and I wasn't ever offered the chance to become an NDN and except for our recent negative exchange about what is a pyramid scam and why people shouldn't engage in them, which I view as a lapse in judgement due to financial pressures,  she's always been kind, generous, thoughtful, and impecable in her dealings with me.  I do realize now that I am ignorant of exactly who owns what I've been taught and who has authorized it.  As an outsider I had/have no way to ask and simply took her word for it.   I'm looking forward to having that resolved.

She called me this morning in an effort to talk directly with me.  I got upset over something she said and the conversation didn't go well.  I've asked her to communicate in writing in the future.  There is a time difference between our countries (I'm in Guam) and my husband is ill and sleeps at odd times so its not ok for her to call me at 5:30 in the morning.  In addition, I'd rather have a record of what gets said instead of relying on the he said she said thing.

I contacted TALON directly (by email) because there is a disclaimer on the HNR web page now distancing the company from Amylee.  I asked who exactly is on the board and got an email signed "Talon" that probably set me up to be upset when Amylee called at 5:30 in the morning.  I think the part of the email that upset me was that my question was not answered - Not only was I not told who is on the board, but instead I was taken to task for posting to this forum and then asked if there was something I didn't want to say to Amylee.  My reply was something along the lines of does Amylee have something to say to me?  Who ever wrote to me didn't even sign the email.  They did mention that 1) Amylee's Cheif has come forward (who is that?) and will protect her (my paraphrasing, not her words) and that Amylee's lawyer is going to shut this forum down.

Writing about it makes me realize that I am upset and when I'm upset I'm not at my best.

How much more upset Amylee must be having to listen to folks talk about her this way.  I think she should sue the people who spread lies about her.

On the other hand, if what people are saying about her is true, then sueing them doesn't do a bit of good does it?  You haven't got a leg to stand on.

Sueing people is expensive and time consuming.  Just because she hasn't sued anyone yet doesn't mean that she's a liar, a theif, or any of the other things that get said around here.

And round and round it goes.  All of us at one time or another are subjected to various degrees of misunderstanding, negativity and disruption.  If we can be kind to each other, even when we disagree, the chances that feelings will be more manageable and that forward progress can be made in understanding both (or all) camps is better.

Hard to do, of course, once folks start getting polarized.