Author Topic: International Council of 13 Indigenous Grandmothers (aka the 13 Pay to Pray Old Ladies)  (Read 143401 times)

Offline Yiwah

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Offline Nana I Ke Kumu

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Re: Jyoti's International Council of Thirteen Indigenous Grandmothers
« Reply #76 on: October 19, 2010, 09:19:06 pm »
Wow.

I've visited this forum before when searching for information on people. I'm not here to say who I am or what my practice is...
I am the one who decides my topic, it's my post. I was speaking here about how ALL people, including the so called "white people" are indigenous to one culture or another. They are just now separate from their roots. Remind me to save a copy of what i post here so when it is altered into something I didn't write I can come back and replace it with what I did. I find the edits misrepresentative of what I wrote.

I had the honor to be present with the 13 grandmothers not too long ago. They don't "pay to pray" at all. The center for sacred studies is the group that helps these 13 women coordinate their movements. The center does the fund raising as it costs about 80k to move them and their travel companions around from place to place.  I found the cost of my time with them to be low considering. I had three veggie meals a day, a dorm room and a shared bathroom. I got access to the teaching and wisdom of women from all over the world. I learned about their medicine, their traditions, and more than anything I was greatly blessed by being able to sit and listen to these HUMBLE plain women talk and teach. There is no cult of ego, no grandiose bull. I would never have sat through that.

Each day began with breakfast then prayer at the fire. They have a firekeeper who travels with them and he keeps the fire sacred and open for prayers. He kept the fire going 24/7 the entire time I was there. Each grandmother took a turn leading the prayer. IN HER tradition, which in turn all the other grannies honored. Each woman and her traditions are honored! After prayers we would go into meetings where the grannies would split up and talk about different issues. Healing the earth, plant medicine, woman's issues/healing. Children. Then lunch, the prayer at the fire with another granny, then more meetings, then dinner then evening prayers. The openness with which the grannies shared their faith/beliefs did ONE thing..showed all of us how much we have in common spiritually. There are two grannies (sisters) raised on the rez (Pine Ridge) who had to go to Catholic boarding school. They do not in any way shape or form have any "Catholic" aspects to their ceremony. What I saw was over 200 people listening to these women talk of love, peace, unity and the uprising of women around the world, with GREAT reverence and respect. What I saw was the people paying attention and honoring the prayers and tradition of each of the grannies who have, by now, come to love each other. Aama Bombo (aka grandma chatty) is considered a holy woman and if she looks at you, you better be ready. Granny Agnes was open and kind and basically the cruise director.

The center for sacred studies is only the fundraiser and helps keep things moving and in line. As far as I can tell most of those ladies are native, belong to the NAC, and are very respectful of ALL of the traditions the grannies come from.

As for how the 13 were chosen? Jyoti (whom I did not meet as her grandchild is awaiting a heart transplant at 8 months old) had a vision that she was to gather the grandmothers. The number 13 was given to her. The letters were mailed to more than 13 with the trust that those who were able to join (body, mind, and spirit as this is a very demanding schedule for elderly women unused to travel) and exactly 13 answered. Jyoti did know about or had heard about the women she sent letters to. The 13 that responded were all active in one way or another working for peace.

Grandmother Bernadette whom you seem to delight in picking at is the keeper of her land in Africa, and her land is the ONLY land that has never known bloodshed. She is active in her country working for peace and healing (For a clue on how women in Africa are coming together, please google "Pray the Devil Back to Hell".) She was unable to attend because she and her son were on their way to his wedding when they had a horrible car accident. Her son pulled through but she was badly injured including two broken legs.

[Series of attacks] I might not be the brightest person in the world, but I know love when I see it, and those ladies are pure love. Only one of them is hooked into something other elders might consider a bit "new age" (the crystal skulls) but then she says that their tradition of these skulls is powerful. Who is going to argue? She isn't selling anything or getting rich. And she hasn't done anything unkind or unloving so let her have her skulls.

Grandmother Bernadette is highly respected as a healer. Their ethnogenic medicine is Iboga, traditionally used in Africa for thousands of years in much the same way Peyote, Ayahuasca, or the sacred mushroom has been used. (Iboga is illegal in two countries, the U.S. and Belgium...$$$ iboga ends alcohol and drug addictions in one spirit journey and although there are clinics in other areas of the world, in the U.S. it is underground. It works, and beautifully so, but sadly there is no money in it for the drug companies or the government. No need for expensive rehabs that don't work, Methadone which is legal heroin, and no need to support the underground drug economy, anyone wonder now why it's illegal?)

I had the privilege to sit with these women and listen to them talk about THEIR medicine and the importance of that in their practice. I have worked with all of the medicines myself at one time or another. I know what my medicine is :) So they taught respect for the medicine, eschewed misuse..Granny Rita came to tears talking about how they have to buy the peyote from 3 federally recognized peyoteras..instead of growing and harvesting it with their prayers. She told of going to one to ask to harvest the medicine with prayers, and how she cried when she saw the disrespect, the beer cans laying around in the growing areas, and how the people are getting rich selling the medicine to the people.

Grandmother Maria Kampos literally lives in the jungle in Amazonia. So it's not like she can point to a town on the map. She is medicine woman to the people. I got to hear her talk about Ayahuasca and what the medicine teachers her and her people. I saw some of her other medicine practices. I listened to her daughter (who travels with her) sing the healing songs for the water. Pure love. Grandmother Julietta, same thing. A medicine woman of great integrity. I heard her speak of using the mushrooms to heal. I got to ask questions, and again felt the awe and reverence these women have for their teachings.

I was pleased and blessed to see Beatrice and Rita (sisters from Pine Ridge) speak plainly about the issues at the Rez. There isn't any white washing. It is what it is. They also spoke about the tremendous healing power of their medicine (Peyote). Other grandmothers have no tradition of medicine but taught chants and prayers, the Tibetan grannies are so brave. They escaped Tibet which if you are at all familiar with, you realize that walking out of there with your children is perilous at best.

One of the grannies was taken aside when she was a child by her own granny who told her "one day you will sit on a council of 13, I have 13 prayer bundles here, when the time comes you give these to the women and keep one for yourself." This gathering is in the wisdom of the ages, many traditions say that when the women gather together to pray healing will come to all people.

I didn't see any rich people, Jyoti doesn't appear to be rich and her land is for sale. No one is getting rich. I was happy to pay for a clean place to sleep and good food during my stay. It's a bit of a drive and unless those things were provided I couldn't have gone. The price was more than reasonable, if it hadn't been I couldn't have gone. For the seminars? The place I was at is a beautiful earth conscious facility run by 99 percent VOLUNTEERS. The cooking, cleaning, and all the organizing? Volunteers. I was blessed to be there. So few places are earth conscious. So I considered this a cheap training mission, but also spiritual renewal, repurposing, and rest.

[More pompous off topic lecturing]

...I disagree with pay to pray, but then I don't know too many people who last at that too long. [Yet still more pompous condescending lecturing] If Native Americans are meant to light the way (as the prophecies foretell) then the where is the light?

My people never had a tradition of separating people out due to their skin color. We accepted all people who wished to come among us and follow our ways. We spoke of peace and unity and we openly shared our songs and our prayers. If anyone has failed here it is the Native American communities (now associated only with drinking and gambling for the most part, yet another fun stereotype.) They have failed to reach out, they have failed in their education, they have failed their children by allowing themselves to continue to follow the shame.

I was greatly blessed to hear Alyoicious Weasel Bear singing the songs I knew (I sang along), watching them in prayer and the absolute reverence and openness with which they shared their practices. What an amazing thing...people gathered from all over respecting each other, loving each other..I was blessed to hear his healing story, blessed to watch the tenderness with which they treated the grannies. The care in assisting his mother with her prayer, which was a blessing for all of us. They brought forth a very young Mohawk fellow who is in the Marines and set for Afghanistan and his mother. They brought him in to the prayer circle and he sat on the buffalo rug, they made a tobacco prayer tie for him to carry with him, all the grannies blessed it..then they encircled he and his mother and prayed for him there wasn't a dry eye around the fire as women/mothers/healers we all felt this mother's pain as our collective pain. Alyoicious named him after the Lakota tradition and called him Nephew. Other grannies often used their prayer time to do similar things. We were at the fire 3 times a day so there was a LOT of prayer happening.

They are not gods or goddesses, simple women full of great love wanting to participate in healing. [Still more pompus lectures and personal attacks] No one pays to pray but there are costs involved. Buying the medicine (it's not free OR cheap) and following the law means people have to pay a "membership fee" but don't blame us for that, that is the government's doing. We ask that those who can pay the minimal membership fee donate a bit extra for those who cannot afford, the same thing with medicine ceremony. NO ONE is ever turned away for want of money. I see many many people who cannot afford to pay, heck I cannot afford to pay much. It is an honor and a blessing to help people find their way to healing, and I've seen plenty of that and hope to see a lot more. Sometimes I get people who haven't a dime but need rehab. I then have to figure out how to get the money to nutritionally support their healing, and you know what, it always comes. Always. Now those who have been blessed with healing are joining in to help others. We get food donated, sometimes places for the seekers to stay. I can promise you that NO ONE is ever turned away. Ever. Oh, and we welcome all seekers, no matter their troubles, history, or skin color. The ways of respect are taught as one cannot know how to respect the fire unless one is taught, but we don't charge them, we teach them with love.

[Still more pompousness] [Yet even more sidetracks and pompousness] Anyone who was present at the last venue they were could go to the prayers. I am very careful about what I do and who I align myself with, I don't do cults of personality, I don't do gurus or pay to pray. But to see these wonderful old ladies who happen to also be (gasp) HUMAN and imperfect, [yet more] be lambasted by ignorance, I just had to speak.

There are frauds everywhere, I consider the largest to be sitting in the Vatican hiding from the grannies..that old Nazi in a dress is about as holy as Hitler.  It is up to each individual seeker to make that discernment for themselves. I saw the stuff about sundance on here. I have one thing to say, tradition is great, but don't forget that Native Americans have been blending tradition for thousands of years why should they stop now? For instance many of the songs the Lakota sing are not "theirs" but rather, were purchased with horses from another tribe.

[Yet more][And returning to post yet more]I don't think there was a single person who was not blessed by the songs Alyoicious sang, the songs the Mohawk ladies sang (they were guests). There were many first and six nations people there. Isn't it time that we stop pointing fingers of exclusion and start working together?

[irrelevant sidetrack about enrollment, followed by yet more personal attacks]

I was googling Alyoicious (When I came across this forum) because they are currently in Japan and I haven't had time to talk to him about the fundraiser we want to do here...we're calling it "Pennies for Propane". The elders were freezing to death last year at Pine Ridge because they ran out of propane. The average income on the rez per week is about 17 dollars. Of course there is lots to be done at Pine Ridge to address the tribal corruption, the alcoholism [yet more personal attacks as well as lots of racism] but our primary concern is that the grannies and the grandpas don't freeze again this winter.

I personally did not witness any exploitation of anyone, and I have every reason to be on the lookout for it as I refuse to be part of anything that exploits people, the earth, or in particular, children (the only truly innocent members of our society). All I saw is respect, love, and teaching.

[yet more] [Followed by still more] I will say to you what I say to all seekers...Jesus isn't coming to save you, the aliens aren't coming to save you, YOU are the one you've been waiting for, WAKE UP. We ARE all one, and if we don't start acting like it, and soon, we will have destroyed the 5th creation as we have 4 times before....

[Two final long pompous lectures, followed by an unbelievably hypocritical greeting mixed with a racist epithet]

And, in the words of Abo Elder Uncle Bob Randal who greets every discord in one way, and one way only, I LOVE YOU~Aho~
« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 02:30:36 pm by educatedindian »

Re: International Council of Thirteen Indigenous Grandmothers
« Reply #77 on: October 19, 2010, 10:41:03 pm »
Not sure where the hate is in this forum/board. I've not felt it, and I trust my sense of things. What I have felt is a frustration of peoples who have been watching their culture and spiritual beliefs be dismantled.. all because they were trusting enough to well... trust a few outsiders with their ceremony.

Trust is a tricky thing.. you trust and get burnt enough times you stop then. No one wants their sacred to be hung out on a door with a for sale sign on it.  No one.

And no one wants to see their sacred so mutilated that it is then a mockery.  

Not being native myself, and never having been raised with religious or spiritual beliefs in the household.. I can very much understand the "feelings" inside many who crave some sort of "sense" to be made out of spiritual experiences that they have. However, I draw the line at "taking" what I know little of and "pretending" to know a lot of.. and then teaching it to another.. let alone selling it!  

These grandmothers from what I can read it seems to me a good thing. I haven't read anyone here putting hate on them, or on what they are doing. But, suspicious, yes, by all rights. No one can expect people who've been ripped off again and again to not be suspicious. To ask that would be absurd, and an insult to their intelligence.

Myself, I have concern more for what happens "after" some person sits through this event with the grandmothers. With no "community" to go back to, with no person "knowledgeable" with "authority" to guide, it's very likely there will be people stepping up claiming to have been taught by these woman, and then selling their so called "knowledge".

I agree with you that there are many many people who have no where to turn. I am one of them. But that does not mean these people should pretend anything about what they are fortunate enough to learn, in however way they learn it. These people, and again, I am one of them, have lost their spiritual indigenous roots due to their ancestors, who either by force or choice, tossed it out.  The struggle to refind and reclaim one's spiritual place in the universe is the road left to those ancestor's children.. the many who now seek. But, the many many do not do so in a right way.. they take a little and pretend and make up and change and recreate until it is unrecognized, and "fake".  Or, dangerous in that they are messing with things they know little of. Spirits and spiritual life are a good thing, but it is not always safe and candy coated bliss especially if being dealt by people who only think they know what they are doing.

I understand those many's need and craving.. but I also understand that they are stepping on other's to attain what is lost to them, and that is not right.  The native traditions that are left, need to be protected from the stampede. If it was just opened to the public, it would become so diluted that in some years times, these people too would be on the same road that the many are on now.. seeking their spirituality.  And some already are..

I in no way wish that on any person.

Therefore, I will do what I can to support this forum. There is no hate here that I have felt, only people protecting that which is theirs to protect.

Edit:  I meant to put in that the "many" who have seemingly no where to turn does not mean in any way/sense at all that they are entitled to turn to any of the indigenous peoples, or that the intact indigenous peoples are obligated to help.  No.  The "nowhere to turn" is only what it seems.. they have their self to turn to. Instead of always looking to someone or something outside of their self to show the way. In the matters of the spiritual experience, if not knowing what something means, it's best to just let it be then, instead of making up meanings which they all seem to do. IE:  "I was told to go teach what little I know but pretend to know fully! (and charge!)"
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 11:00:50 pm by critter »
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Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: International Council of Thirteen Indigenous Grandmothers
« Reply #78 on: October 19, 2010, 10:46:20 pm »
And, in the words of Abo Elder Uncle Bob Randal who greets every discord in one way, and one way only, I LOVE YOU~Aho~

... "Abo"? Are you referring to an aboriginal person this way?

Offline Nana I Ke Kumu

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Re: International Council of Thirteen Indigenous Grandmothers
« Reply #79 on: October 19, 2010, 11:08:21 pm »
And, in the words of Abo Elder Uncle Bob Randal who greets every discord in one way, and one way only, I LOVE YOU~Aho~

... "Abo"? Are you referring to an aboriginal person this way?

I am referring to Uncle Bob, whom I personally know, as an Abo (you know, short for aboriginal?)

[Long string of personal attacks and sidetracks]

All I see here is hate, I just finished reading another thread which is nothing but attack after attack.

[Long string of sidetracks about enrollment]

IN the words of dear, wonderful ABORIGINAL elder Uncle Bob, I LOVE YOU. There is nothing here but hate and discontent, that you cannot see this is sad..perhaps you've been wrapped up in it for so long you don't even notice it. Perhaps you think it is justified, fear and loathing, protection of what? Tell me a pure ceremony that has never been altered by contact with other tribes?  Tell me ONE practice and teaching that is UNIQUE to NAs and not found in other parts of the world. What I learned by listening to the grannies is how much we have in common, here you push the US versus THEM agenda.

Uncarded and proud (I was offered a card a month ago and I turned it down), if it was the wishes of my relatives that we not sell our blood, I won't do it either. At least I don't have to kowtow to the federal robbers for permission to pray at the fire, to follow the old ways. Now, perhaps you can find something else to attack?

[Yet more long series of personal and racist attacks, followed by this bit of condescension] How sorry I am for you and I pray that creator will speak to your heart and soften it so that love can reacquaint himself with you~

As for the seeker, there are always people to take you in and teach you what you wish. And as for the concern about what the poor folks are going to do when they go home? I returned to my home with greater respect for those around the world and I also returned to my own personal practice. HOWEVER what did stick with me was Agnes's plea for us all to be more respectful to the water and thus I find myself thanking the water more, being MORE loving and grateful for the reminder that unless we become more mindful, the earth won't be here for us.

How anyone can find fault with that is beyond me, but surely people do and will, and therein lies the issue in healing the earth and ALL the people who walk on her.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 01:24:53 am by Kathryn »

Re: International Council of Thirteen Indigenous Grandmothers
« Reply #80 on: October 19, 2010, 11:23:01 pm »
I think you're a bit naive if you think the many people will just go home and follow as you did. Or if you think many will not try to use these grandmothers to create their own 'brand' of whatever and sell it to some unknowing and gullible person. 

Also, a bit naive to just accept without question, and to label suspicions as hate.

I personally find these kinds of posts that act as though tribes should just be hanging out their beliefs and opening their arms to the many seeking more annoying than most other kinds of posts, and is in fact, why I came back here to comment on that.

Sorry if it's off topic, but I do find it exploitative and not of clear and critical thought. It's not an attack or hate to say this. But I think confronted with a different point of view, "nana" will suggest I hate him/her or am attacking. I'm not.
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Offline Nana I Ke Kumu

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Re: International Council of Thirteen Indigenous Grandmothers
« Reply #81 on: October 19, 2010, 11:44:53 pm »
I think you're a bit naive if you think the many people will just go home and follow as you did. Or if you think many will not try to use these grandmothers to create their own 'brand' of whatever and sell it to some unknowing and gullible person. 

Also, a bit naive to just accept without question, and to label suspicions as hate.

I personally find these kinds of posts that act as though tribes should just be hanging out their beliefs and opening their arms to the many seeking more annoying than most other kinds of posts, and is in fact, why I came back here to comment on that.

Sorry if it's off topic, but I do find it exploitative and not of clear and critical thought. It's not an attack or hate to say this. But I think confronted with a different point of view, "nana" will suggest I hate him/her or am attacking. I'm not.

Suspicion? No, I see hate. I am sure you find it upsetting with people coming together. There are plenty of people who don't want that. My people never ever recognized blood quantum. It was enough if you came to the fire and live with the people and learned the language and tradition and lived among them with peace and love. Now it's OMG your skin is too white get away.,..and the federal gov. has Indians arguing over who is Indian enough to be Indian. Crazy and my relations won't have anything to do with that. We know who we are.

I will say to you what I say to the BITTER carded NAs in our area, the prophecies say the NAs will light the path, WHERE IS THE LIGHT? Where is the love? Do you really think creator is sitting there thinking, OMG that white person just said a Lakota word? Having been dead, I can assure you that that is the last thing on creators top ten list of things to do. OMG someone might do a fire prayer and GASP, they're WHITE. It's so interesting to see the open arms with which other groups welcome people; Hindus, Buddhists among a few of the ancient practices open their arms and welcome seekers and teach them the right way to honor the beliefs. Anyone can be a Buddhist, not just Asians. That spiritual belief set is really not that different from NAs when it comes down to it. I didn't realize how much commonality there actually was.

I have studied with medicine people from all over the world as I have traveled and lived that way from work. In my practice I use practical applications of all those things. Why should I not use a SA herb that works for depression just because I learned about it in SA and my "patient' happens to be a white person or an Asian person?

I can't wrap my head around the proprietary pomposity on here. I've seen the Charlatans and they don't last long. Money oriented people don't last long either. Why don't we trust the universe to deal with this issue and just keep doing what we're doing healing the earth and her people? Getting ripped off should be the least of our problems at this point.

And no, I don't think anyone is going to go home and try to sell..what? A fire prayer? Sell it how? Come to my house I will teach you how to respect the fire for a small price of 29.95? Really? A song? You can learn them online if you wish. A what? I can't figure out what exactly people can take from this to sell. And I do not see suspicion here, I see flat out attacks and plain and simple hate. But then this is only my second or third time coming here. The first time I was researching an Indian...who has since done a lot of medicine work and had a complete turn around...from crook to good guy. OMG did I just say an Indian was a crook? He was, and he's not anymore, but only because we took him in, loved him, and gave him the chance to heal his own life. Aho~ which is WAY more than I saw happening here in the horrific talk about him. Really. I understand that most people just talk the talk, point fingers and complain. We are not going to stop trying to bring people together and to help them heal their wounds, of the body, mind, and spirit. The old fighting ways haven't worked for us on this earth and those of us who are opting out of it, are going to work on getting that light lit.


Re: International Council of Thirteen Indigenous Grandmothers
« Reply #82 on: October 19, 2010, 11:45:08 pm »
Ok, I had to come back once more.. again, sorry it's off topic, but it does go with the posts from "Nana"..

What's even more annoying is when people post of this "love"..  Yes, I love. I love the Earth unconditionally.. with all my heart and soul.. and I would protect her from exploiters and misuse just as I would protect the unknowing and gullible.. but this isn't the "love" I see in these new age type ideologies.. they always talking like "love" will make everything sweet as can be.. and it's all so wonderful flowing and sharing and blah blah.. NO.  Love is a matter of Respect First.  Love is a powerful emotion and it's easy and all too common for people to get caught up in the fantasy of it.  But that is not REAL.  It's not love if you do not care.. do you care about the traditions of these people and do you care about their wishes to keep it to their self?  Do you care about them?  Or just about what it means to you and your point of view?  If you only care what it means to your view, and if you cannot respect and let/leave alone and even support others in their view even if opposite of your own (provided it's not harming innocent people/beings) .. THEN IT ISN"T LOVE.

So.. sorry again, for taking this another step from the topic, but wanted to address this because I just find it as annoying as can be when people talk love love love.. and accuse others of hate.   :)
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Re: International Council of Thirteen Indigenous Grandmothers
« Reply #83 on: October 19, 2010, 11:49:05 pm »
you're naive if you think people will not embellish and recreate and make up and  then sell.  No one cares if you treat someone with this or that from here or there.  What is cared about is the exploitation of beliefs and sacred by those with little to no knowledge of it, or even those with .. but who sell it and exploit the people it belongs to and the people they sell it to.  Perhaps you have not really read what is on this forum, all you see is hate?  Then you have issues, because there is not hate here, there is rooting out those who scam. 

And I'm off now, my opinions are given.  Be well..
press the little black on silver arrow Music, 1) Bob Pietkivitch Buddha Feet http://www.4shared.com/file/114179563/3697e436/BuddhaFeet.html

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: International Council of Thirteen Indigenous Grandmothers
« Reply #84 on: October 19, 2010, 11:52:08 pm »
Until the rez bloods clean up their OWN acts, get some education and stop screwing drunk in the streets as granny Rita said and says on her website nothing is going to change. Take some personal responsibility and stop blaming the bottle in your mouth on anyone other than the hand that raises it

"Nana", you are not doing the grandmothers any favors by coming here and screaming this stuff at people. The great wisdom you seem to have learned in your travels and studies with "medicine people from all over the world" is that, as a person from the mainland US, you have the right to use a Hawaiian name, say "Aho", set yourself up as a healer using South American herbal/ceremonial methods, characterize all Native people (from a particular reserve or from a message board) as alcoholics who "screw in the streets", and to practice the ceremonies of those for whom you have so much disrespect. I find this sad. I guess if you diss them, it makes it easier for you to ignore them when they ask you to not use their traditions.  And your good friend from Australia may have been too polite to tell you, but "Abo" is a racial slur.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 01:26:11 am by Kathryn »

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Jyoti's International Council of Thirteen Indigenous Grandmothers
« Reply #85 on: October 20, 2010, 12:14:39 am »
Once again, we seem to find someone who fell for Jyoti's tactic. She hides behind these 13 women, using them as shields, giving herself a legitimacy she doesn't deserve. Our main criticisms have always been against HER not them. (With one exception, one who most of the evidence points towards being an exploiter.)

Ad for the elderly ladies, they may be perfectly nice, but that's besides the point. Nana/Mr. Partin's main defense seems to be they make him and others feel good, and then he goes on to ascribe to them an enormously romanticized stereotypical image of them, right out of the old racist image of the Noble Savage.

So it shouldn't surprise us to see all of Nana/Partin's casual racism, not just once but over and over. He wants Native elders/healers and Natives in general to be Tontos, to serve the needs of whites. No Mr. Partin, we are not here to be your mascot. And I strongly suspect those nice grandmas would tell you the same thing were you to be so insulting, abusive, and racist to them as you have been to, well, just about everyone else.

Finally, there's the insulting and inaccurate claim that whites have no more traditions so they must appropriate Native ones. That's been debunked so many times...for someone who claims to have read so much of the site you surehave missed a lot.

Offline Superdog

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Re: Jyoti's International Council of Thirteen Indigenous Grandmothers
« Reply #86 on: October 20, 2010, 01:46:16 am »
If anyone has failed here it is the Native American communities (now associated only with drinking and gambling for the most part, yet another fun stereotype.) They have failed to reach out, they have failed in their education, they have failed their children by allowing themselves to continue to follow the shame.

I think if you objectively read these words, they are hard to excuse as anything but negatively perpetuating stereotypes.  I'm sure you have somewhere in mind when you mentioned this, but my community doesn't have this type of existence.  I can name a whole lot more who don't either.

Educated spoke correctly when he said the bulk of the criticism here is not aimed at the Grandmothers themselves.  Your emotion is misplaced.  There's a whole lot of us....myself included that don't really care one way or another.  You're also jumping back and forth on complaining about unfair criticism while at the same time unfairly criticizing us yourself.  You can't have it both ways and I can guarantee whatever point you're trying to make is completely muddled....I'm having a hard time understanding your side of this story in all this myself.

You might wanna take a deep breath...go back and find the posts in the thread you have serious issue with and make your point about them.  You might find that you're heard here and above all you make a solid case against any information you have a problem with.  So far you haven't accomplished any of that yet.

Superdog

Offline Defend the Sacred

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3288
Re: International Council of Thirteen Indigenous Grandmothers
« Reply #87 on: October 20, 2010, 02:22:39 am »
The group just did a six day event at the Omega Institute - a Newage center in upstate New York:

http://www.eomega.org/omega/workshops/d5a7ed9be04df0096bb66c6b88ba2961
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The Wisdom of the Thirteen Indigenous Grandmothers

This special week of traditional prayer, meditations, silence, ceremony, and council is open to all women and men of goodwill. ... the 13 Grandmothers are making their second visit to Omega.

teachers

Margaret Behan
Rita Pitka Blumenstein
Aama Bombo
Julieta Casimiro
Flordemayo
Maria Alice Campos Freire
Tsering Dolma Gyaltong
Beatrice Long-Visitor Holy Dance
Rita Long-Visitor Holy Dance
Agnes Baker Pilgrim
Mona Polacca
Bernadette Rebienot
Clara Shinobu Iura

October 10 - 15, 2010
Rhinebeck, New York
Tuition: $425
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Additional fees: http://www.eomega.org/omega/visitors/accommodations/

Commuter fee for five days is $175 if you have lodging in town somewhere, or
Varying rates of bringing a tent and camping for $345
to $1000 for a double room in a cabin with a private bath.

Offline Lodro

  • Posts: 32
Re: International Council of Thirteen Indigenous Grandmothers
« Reply #88 on: October 20, 2010, 08:21:54 am »
Quote
Anyone can be a Buddhist, not just Asians

This is true. However, I've seen many claims to "recognition", I've seen claims to "having taken teachings" from this or that Lama. I've seen claims to "having been initiated into advanced practices"

These claims are usually made to lend credence, and the upshot usually is that a fair amount of money is asked from seekers for questionable teachers. Almost every time I investigate these claims with the Lamas who are paraded as the teachers or preceptors of these people, it turns out that they know nothing about a connection. There name and reputation has been used and then sullied, to earn a fraud money.

That is what is at stake here. Not the grandmothers or elders themselves, but how their name and reputation is used and exploited to earn people at the top of the pyramid a sizable sum of money. This exploitation is in itself repressive and colonialist and feeds on the same stereotypes as are current about -for instance - Tibetan buddhism. That the reality of the "buddhism" that is so easily appropriated is far different from the common perception of it leads to difficulties when seekers want to become practitioners and find out their practice is in serious danger.

Offline nemesis

  • Posts: 526
Re: International Council of Thirteen Indigenous Grandmothers
« Reply #89 on: October 20, 2010, 08:40:42 am »
Nana I Ke Kumu is doing an excellent job of portraying himself as a racist just with the pompous and arrogant nonsense in his posts.

I am completely stunned at this total lack of self-awareness and a complete projection of his own, self evident, flaws on to native people.


@ Nana



You just make yourself look stupid by coming to his website, owned by real native people, and spouting your vile and hateful rantings.  Look in the mirror you odious racist before you go around pointing the finger at others.