Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"

[Smart Mule]

Kiesha the ecofriendly crystal promoting shame-on approves of the following -

[Twinkie_Slayer]

Yup, that's a real good way to heal the earth....
 

[Freija]

Great photos, Sky! Thank you for posting them!

As I love using stories and legends to enhance teachings, I came to think of the old legend "The Pied Piper of Hamelin", from the 13th Century. This very strange man turns up, dressed in multicolored clothing (Hollywood-style Native American clothing), promising everyone to remove the rats of Hamelin (to remove the evil, the dark ones, of the world). He does but is not satisfied with the payment (can´t get enough attention/money) so he comes back with his magic Pipe (mesmarizing messages), hypnotizing all the children of the town to follow him. He leads them away, never to return again....(blind and deaf for warnings and criticism).

How appropriate (and scary) that "both of them" are handling a Pipe.  

[Saga]

I might make a video (leaning against a runestone) saying I´m THE spokesperson for ALL shamans from ALL over the world. Not just North America.... I mean, c´mon!!

What if we all did that? 100 of us claiming that title 

Well, I think that the first 12 get away with it as the other young wisdom keepers. :p

As I love using stories and legends to enhance teachings, I came to think of the old legend "The Pied Piper of Hamelin", from the 13th Century. This very strange man turns up, dressed in multicolored clothing (Hollywood-style Native American clothing), promising everyone to remove the rats of Hamelin (to remove the evil, the dark ones, of the world). He does but is not satisfied with the payment (can´t get enough attention/money) so he comes back with his magic Pipe (mesmarizing messages), hypnotizing all the children of the town to follow him. He leads them away, never to return again....(blind and deaf for warnings and criticism).

In my wild imagination, I have had many similar thoughts, how much wrong you can actually do with that kind of power over people... I am trying to keep myself from not doing it over to that side either and keep in the facts mostly. It is scary thought in any case.

And about the crystal mining, there are those kind of books that talk about earth imbalances because of human activity like taking the minerals and oil and crystals out of there and all... If wanting to create huge conspiracy theory, something like causing the strip mining of the rest of the "shield" and energy store of earth would be quite a great thing from dark ones. :p I think that most of the "bad" people are able to be very charming too when it suits for them. :p (talking about keeping in the facts, lol... Sorry. :p)

[Spandex~Atom]

I might make a video (leaning against a runestone) saying I´m THE spokesperson for ALL shamans from ALL over the world. Not just North America.... I mean, c´mon!!

What if we all did that? 100 of us claiming that title 

lol, a wisdomkeeper has to choose their words wisely.

apparently, if kiesha fesses up, there are another 11 hiding in the shadows  to replace her.....
(according to her 'misinformation' response page)

As I love using stories and legends to enhance teachings, I came to think of the old legend "The Pied Piper of Hamelin", from the 13th Century. .........

I love this poem. Kieshas followers would be better off getting 'enlightened' with the wisdom in it.
A similar image came to my mind when I realised she was fake. The 'Child-Catcher' from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. My feelings were more about the ones behind her 'throne'.

I think that most of the "bad" people are able to be very charming too when it suits for them. :p (talking about keeping in the facts, lol... Sorry. :p)

and most loving people have a bit of monster in them too....somewhere, and can be very viscious when they want to, like when their beloved leader is challenged.

[educatedindian]

Crowther's assistant and longtime friend Jennifer sent a message to one of the members here. In it, Jennifer makes some new claims:

Supposedly they now admit Crowther was NOT recognized by either Salish nor "Sioux" councils of elders. Jennifer in fact admits that Salish elders specifically do NOT recognize Crowther.

However, she also claims that Crowther was recognized as a "shaman" by a single Salish elder named Falling Feathers who, conveniently for their story, has recently passed away.

Jennifer goes on to smear the Salish elders as being motivated by politics, but is very vague as to how or why, though she implies they are being racist because she's fairskinned.

(Oh no, those poor white people being persecuted by evil NDNs! )

Jennifer also claims there is a woman Salish elder who they absolutely refuse to name who also recognizes Crowther.

They also absolutely refuse to name who Crowther's mother is, though they claim she is "half blood Sioux and Salish." They also claim Crowther has relatives on the Flathead reservation.

To say that Jennifer's claims are confused is putting it mildly. She refers throughout her message to the "governor" of the tribe and the "Confederated Sioux and Salish". Neither of those exist.

At one point in the message, she claims that Falling Feathers was an elder, at another point a member of the "governing council", at another point she admits she doesn't know what he was. (Theh why the heck should anyone listen to what FF had to say? He could simply have been a confused elderly man.)

I've looked at the Flathead site and see no mention of a council member recently passing.

Finally, Jennifer repeats the claim that Perez, the Mayanist Nuager, recognized her as a shaman through a translator. No mention of where this supposedly happened, or why a supposed Mayanist (not Mayan, see the thread on him) was doing at either the Flathead rez or Crowther's hometown of Sanford Colorado.

If you look at the mentions of Perez elsewhere at nafps, you'll see Perez specifically mocks those who believe in the 2012 hoax.

Myself, I wonder if the repeated changes in their stories are just to avoid lawsuits, or to give their followers a shred to cling to when the lies become too obvious.

[Saga]

and most loving people have a bit of monster in them too....somewhere, and can be very viscious when they want to, like when their beloved leader is challenged.

True. Every person has bit of both. I usually get vicious when I smell the injustice or people or other living things getting hurt by something. Trying to keep myself on the ground as much as I can tho. :p

And the claims seem to get weirder and weirder... when just a name or two would do.

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

Crowther's assistant and longtime friend Jennifer sent a message to one of the members here. In it, Jennifer makes some new claims:

Supposedly they now admit Crowther was NOT recognized by either Salish nor "Sioux" councils of elders. Jennifer in fact admits that Salish elders specifically do NOT recognize Crowther.

Hah!  So.. now they re-beef the story claiming Mayan, I supposed they'll drag the Buddhists and whoever
else they think they can lay claim to. 

[Spandex~Atom]

Myself, I wonder if the repeated changes in their stories are just to avoid lawsuits, or to give their followers a shred to cling to when the lies become too obvious.

From the reaction of her followers, I would be surprised if it made much difference to their belief in her if she actually made a public statement withdrawing her belief that she was genuinely made a Shaman by anyone.

[Peasant]

Finally, Jennifer repeats the claim that Perez, the Mayanist Nuager, recognized her as a shaman through a translator. No mention of where this supposedly happened, or why a supposed Mayanist (not Mayan, see the thread on him) was doing at either the Flathead rez or Crowther's hometown of Sanford Colorado.

If you look at the mentions of Perez elsewhere at nafps, you'll see Perez specifically mocks those who believe in the 2012 hoax.

I think he has also participated in one of the events which Crowther attended too, called 'Return of the ancestors' if i'm correct. As he seems to be New Age oriented, idk, it could be that he supported her for the audience there. I don't know how much to believe of him, but yes he denounced the 2012 hoax several times recently.

[SAMy]

Crowther's assistant and longtime friend Jennifer sent a message to one of the members here. In it, Jennifer makes some new claims:

Supposedly they now admit Crowther was NOT recognized by either Salish nor "Sioux" councils of elders. Jennifer in fact admits that Salish elders specifically do NOT recognize Crowther.

Hah!  So.. now they re-beef the story claiming Mayan, I supposed they'll drag the Buddhists and whoever
else they think they can lay claim to. 

Well, if you are not rooted by either 1) being called by Spirit (not on the phone) and/or 2) being part of you community that has the traditions you are dressing yourself up as, then you are just waving in the breeze.  Make up whatever story to get folks to keep their minds closed and just keep listening to all the nice heart-centered nonsense.

For anyone who thinks the Bible is a good reference, whenever you hear someone say we don't need the mind, we just need to live in the heart (that's such a common cult warning flag) then maybe pickup that old book and read this to realize that the heart and the mind need each other, both of them can be untrustworthy:

Jeremiah 17:9-11

9 - The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?
10 - I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give to each man according to his ways, According to the results of his deeds.
11 - As a partridge that hatches eggs which it has not laid, So is he who makes a fortune, but unjustly; In the midst of his days it will forsake him, And in the end he will be a fool.

That last sentence is precious. 

Don't be caught up by someone who claims to know exactly how every single person ought to live.  We are all UNIQUE creations.  If you are looking outside of yourself for that leader to help flip us to the golden age, then you are headed for trouble BIG TIME.

[Defend the Sacred]

Crowther's assistant and longtime friend Jennifer sent a message to one of the members here. In it, Jennifer makes some new claims:

Supposedly they now admit Crowther was NOT recognized by either Salish nor "Sioux" councils of elders. Jennifer in fact admits that Salish elders specifically do NOT recognize Crowther.

Hah!  So.. now they re-beef the story claiming Mayan, I supposed they'll drag the Buddhists and whoever else they think they can lay claim to. 

Crowther has already failed with the Buddhists:

I've sent a message through her site's contact form:

In a statement on this website, it is said that Kiesha Crowther was recognized as a shaman by "the lamas of Nepal and Tibet". Is it possible to let me know who these lamas would be? I might know some of them personally, and lineage is of the utmost important in the vajrayana tradition, so it would be a great help and a great gift to know who these teachers are. Thank you so much

Well, I received word that she has been "recognized as a shaman" by Lakha Lama. She claims he was, or is, from the village of Makram, in Tibet, however, Lakaha Lama has been living in Sweden since 1976, according by his Facebook page. And this may be hs ow she knows is, as she has been in Sweden giving teachings in the course of this year. I've written to the person who admins his group on Facebook, to confirm to me that Lama has, indeed, recognized her in some way, as a Shaman.

....Lakaha Lama has, indeed, recognized her in some way, as a Shaman.

Can you explain what that means, exactly? That she was trained, has abilities, what exactly? Esp since she's not Tibetan herself. And the stranger part is, why would a Tibetan lama's endorsement have anything to do with an alleged "Salish Sioux"? I doubt the Lama would think much of a Lakota medicine man "recognizing" someone as a lama.

I have exchanged a number of emails with Kiesha Crowther, especially focusing on this point: the "recognition" as shaman.

It turns out she has spoken with Lakha Lama briefly, while in Sweden. And of course he said kind things to her, which is how Lamas are. If you ask for a blessing you'll receive it. This in no way means "recognition", and in general, a Tibetan Lama would never "recognize" a shaman.
I've pointed out to Crowther that she willfully confuses people with her use of the word "recognition", as that is - in Tibetan usage - reserved for recognition as a "tulku" ie a teacher who influences his or her own rebirth in order to continue the link with students and the lineage.

I am sure (but I have yet to receive confirmation from Lakha Lama to whom I've written) that there is no endorsement here, only kind words and a blessing like anyone may receive from a compassionate teacher.

However, in her communication with me, Crowther first claims that she does not take teachings from Tibetan Lamas, then goes on to say that they are somehow connected with the council of indigenous elders. But apart from Lakha Lama, whom she names, she doesn't give any names, so I doubt the existence of these teachers in connection with her.

[Defend the Sacred]

So we see that, once again, Crowther passes off brief meetings as being "taught" or "recognized" by various people.

This is very common in newage circles, or was when I had my brush with them in the eighties. Rootless newagers will go to one ceremony or ritual, or even just a lecture with someone, then claim that person was their teacher. If they go to a ceremony that has any sort of cleansing or rebirth motif, they will also then claim they were "initiated" by the ritual leader.

Some people have found that a simple conversation with one of these seekers will end up with being called that seeker's "teacher". Some of the newagers mean it as a sign of respect, and don't know it's wrong to presume that sort of connection. But others exploit any meeting to try and give themselves credibility and backing they do not have.

[Freija]

Funny that she is not recognized as a shaman by the Samis. 
Being in Sweden and all....after all, she meets a LAMA in Sweden who recognizes her!

I wonder if she just forgot they exist or if she realized exactly how upset the Samis would have been if she had gone along with it. LOL
Have to tell you about my Sami friend who went to a party, saw this non-Sami woman dressed up in a Sami outfit (which was a man´s outfit, by the way) and just went up and ripped the clothes off her. Proud to be her friend! LOL

[Defend the Sacred]

Well, if you are not rooted by either 1) being called by Spirit (not on the phone) and/or 2) being part of you community that has the traditions you are dressing yourself up as, then you are just waving in the breeze.

I don't want to take this into a tangent, and we've already had a few tangents in this thread, but I need to respond to this. I don't think it's appropriate to say "either" in this matter. Every day we see crazy people who have no training, no community, no elders nor the checks and balances of knowledgeable peers, claiming they can be spiritual leaders because "Spirit" "called" them.

It's up to traditional spiritual communities to say what criteria it takes to be a a spiritual leader in that community. Standards and requirements vary among tribes and cultures. But if someone is claiming to do anything that practices, or dabbles in, or takes "inspiration" from traditional cultures (as Crowther has claimed) they absolutely cannot claim they have a right to any of these things because "Spirit called them".

Every day we see those people harming the traditions and harming the seekers who follow them.

The people we see who are unhinged from any traditional community, who are out there saying "Spirit called them" are (in my experience and without exception I can think of at the moment) delusional. Traditional communities, traditional ways of life, have time-honoured ways of weeding out the gradiose and fantasy-prone from those who have real connections to the spirits. In my opinion, the purpose of this board is to support the traditional communities who have these ways, and keep crazy and entitled outsiders from exploiting their traditions and harming people with their schemes.

I think if someone who feels rootless and without community feels "called by Spirit" to be some sort of leader or spokesman, they need to seek out a legitimate, grounded, community. Then they need to shut up for a few decades. If after decades of learning and humility and being a normal person of that community, the community leaders and elders ask them to take a leadership role, then they can.

Crowther has obviously done nothing of the sort.