NAFPS Forum
Odds and Ends => Etcetera => Topic started by: juztme on November 02, 2010, 10:59:54 pm
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Hello
OK, I have been very interested in researching about UFO phenomenon.
Although I have been interested in this for a few years, I was much inspired after the recnt 'UFO' event over New York City. It IS a very complex subuject I am sure you know with different viewponts and groups. many fundamentalist Christians for example see these UFOs and 'entities' as 'demonic', etc.
I have been wanting to find out about Native peoples possible experience with this phenomenon, but am very wary about who is saying what--such as plastic shamans, and phony natives who say they are belonging to a tribe etc.
I am aware of the Hopi Prophecy which may include UFOs, but then again I am tenative because maybe someone talking about it using their sacredknowledge to promite the authors UFO beliefs.
I am also aware of 'shamanic' traditions in South America. For example the artist Pablo Amaringo has illustrated visions which include many depictions of UFOs and magical occupants some of whom teach the Ayahuesceros Icaros/healing songs,
There is a young man at Youtube who has a channel called petroglyphsintheair, and you see him exploring the ancint Native rock art in his home of Arizona, and he claims that many of the drawings depict UFOs and occupants, and he can predict where UFOs will appear from the rock art and has taken videos of them in the sky.
I thought he was a good person to ask, but have to say was VERY shocked by his reply which I will paste here. I would like to know what you think about what he is saying please?
"hello :)
thank you very much. ya know true natives wont talk about this, they will say there are forces that man is not ment to deal with, this is one of them. some natives dont understand the true history of the rock art and history. they think little green men from mars and space ships and dont understand what true spirits are. it will take some time for this generation to figure out that the ufos they see now IS part of this world. threw hollywood and people trying to sell a book they think space ships and dont know what they truly are. you see the things we see now live here in the mountains, not from another planet. they have allways been here. they are not green guys and space ships at all but another life form. there are alot of species here on earth that man hasent found yet. this is one of them. you have to understand the past to understand the future. the people who delt with ufos in the past disappeared, so what dose that say about us ?? the evidence is all around us but people dont know this because they were not told the true history of planet earth. this topic was not ment for us to understand. the gods of the mayans are the ufos we see now. look at all the blood they shead for the ufos. the natives now who understand this will not talk about this because they were told what the spirits did to there ancestors. they told the kids that if they were not good the spirits would take them away. one day soon everyone will understand this but by that time they will be forced to worship them and sacrafice there kids and prisoners for them. you see we dont need them yet so this is why they havent told us what they are doing up there. after there is no food or water for man then the spirits will fool mankinde to worship them again. man will be forced to worship them to survive. the ufos are not here to help us at all, this is why the goverment is not saying enything. but they know whats to come. when i found a native at the indian museum i did not tell him what i was doing. i just whanted the true meaning of the rock art. he told me then it all made since. now after he knows of my work he will not go on the mountains with me enymore. that should tell you something. when you start talking with a native and he starts talking about space ships .. walk away.. he dose not understand .. but if you talk with a native about this and he walks away thats the man you whant to talk to. becareful of people who say space ships for if they truly understand this they will not lead you in that direction. i have seen the spirits aka ufos and i know what they are. people now a days do not take the time to understand whats TRUELY going on. they take the word of someone trying to sell a book or dvd so they are ignorant to the fact. they did not take the time to study ufos and there history nore see them almost everyday like i have. because of people like that it is missleading everyone in there path. soon they will understand that the person they listened to were wrong, but by that time it will be to late. in order to eat they will have to shed the blood of there children like last time.
in order to understand ufos research them and read the testimoney of people who delt with thim long ago. like the bible and dead sea scrolls and rock art. gen. 6 in the bilbe is a good place to start. you see the rock art is photographs of what the gen. 6 is talking about. but because people have strayed away from the bible and people trying to explaine revolations like the grate beast that is about to come, they think apache helicoptors instead of intrepating what it really is.
my guess that it will be really hard to find a true native to tell you the truth, i was lucky but like i said .. i dident tell him who i was and what i was doing. now he look at me with fear. for he knows i understand and whats to come and thinks i will be one of the first to be taken up by thease creatures like the hohokam and mayans to be judged in the sky.
thank you again and hope this helps.
jeff woolwine
www.petroglyphsinthesky.com"
As you can see this sounds pretty heavy. Now--according to him--we not ONLY have to worry about psychopaths in power destroying the web of life and the soul, but ALSO 'spirits in the sky' intent on further exploiting our wretchedness and blood-thirsty!
What do you think of his take on this?
peace
Juliano
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Oh dear, can NO one help me with this?
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As native people we don't have to say anything
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As a Euro member of NAFPS, I'd like to add:
The man is full of it. All he presented you with is a crude concoction of garbage and sick fantasies, garnished with racist notions. He's as good as his abysmal spelling abilities.
Help? What help do you really wish to receive? I suppose you will gladly continue to believe in anything which sounds appealing to you.
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The good news, not even the UFO crowd give this guy any credibility. Google his name and add fraud or fake to see how many people accuse him of faking evidence.
Like the others, I wonder why you think we should give that racist ignorant crackpot any of our attention.
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HI--I honestly didn't mean to cause any offence. Originally I am just honestly looking for Native people to tell me if they know of history of their people and ancestors with UFOs. It is hard to know who to trust asking this question because as you here have expose Dr Boylan and 'his Indians'--you claim all that is new age phony and it does look that way, and now this guy.
I was shocked by this guy's worldview --ie., the petroglyphsinthesky guy. He is obviously coming from a Christian perspective which demonizes everything, especially spirits connected with earth etc.
So OK let's please then forget him, and remember my original intent is help with my research into the authentic Native history of 'UFOs' and their occupants?
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help with my research into the authentic Native history of 'UFOs' and their occupants?
.... harrrumph .....
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So OK let's please then forget him, and remember my original intent is help with my research into the authentic Native history of 'UFOs' and their occupants?
There is no Native history of UFOs' or their occupants. UFOs' are a white mans fantasy concept and a rather silly one at that.
Diana
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So OK let's please then forget him, and remember my original intent is help with my research into the authentic Native history of 'UFOs' and their occupants?
There is no Native history of UFOs' or their occupants. UFOs' are a white mans fantasy concept and a rather silly one at that.
Diana
In what way do you mean this? Please ---youll dont think to be rude because your 'Native' i know suffering too, and am human. I am trying to be honest here and asking for help. This thread is for help with research. And I am 'mixed race', I am not 'white'
So how do you mean UFOs is a white man's fantasy? That makes no sense. UFOs which means unidentified objects in the sky are seen all over the world! You can see them on videos, read about peoples experiences seeing them, and actually making contact with beings who are their occupants--One of the most powerful mass sightings was The Phoenix Lights in 1997 where thousands of people white and other colours would have seen this 'otherworldy craft'--what is it?
In South American 'shamanistic' art we see UFOs depicted in visions: Some Important Iconographical Motifs: Space-ships (http://www.miqel.com/entheogens/ufo-dmt-connection-tribal.html)
(http://www.miqel.com/images_1/entheogens/ufos-in-peru-ayahuasca.jpg)
Are you telling me that these strange events in the sky are only a modern whiteman's fantasy? Not from what I am learning they are not
Exploring African and Other Alien Abductions (http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc16.htm)
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"UFO" just means "Unidentified Flying Object". While it is true that lots of people, of a variety of cultures, have reported seeing odd lights in the sky, or other weird things that are "unidentified" or of unclear origins, that doesn't mean all, or even any, of these people assume anything odd is extraterrestial, or spacecraft, or any of the other things you are implying. Different people and cultures have different explanations for what those people may be experiencing, and why, but this forum is not about that stuff.
This is a forum for researching and exposing frauds, exploiters and predators. We're not here to explain UFO phenomena or drug experiences. If you are interested in the issue of abuse of ayahuasca, or ayahuasca tourism, you can go to the main page and search on those things.
You seem to be unclear on the purpose of this forum. Please go read the introductory topics that new members are required to read. If you are still interested in participating, please introduce yourself and stick to topics that are in line with the purpose of the group. Thanks.
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Personally I think there is probably a link between various cults and religions with UFOs and aliens as a central theme and the covert or overt use of certain powerful psychoactive drugs.
Of course you do not have to use drugs in order to have a cult that promotes the idea of aliens and UFOs but it certainly helps to convince people who are in the "inner circles" of the cult and it also helps explain why apparently intelligent and discerning people in cults possess unshakable beliefs in aliens.
Anyway, this is just a little theory of mine.
I am happy to share my little theory with you for what it is worth. I am not native and do not claim to have any special knowledge, just an interest in how drugs can be used to manipulate people.
As other have said, this forum is not really the place to come for help with your research as the main focus of the forums are to support native people in their battle against fraud and cultural appropriation and to expose predators.
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Well it is a question----and I suppose I was thinking that this place did have native people who li9ked to expose 'plastic shamans' hence it makes sense i would ask this question here.
I am shocked that IF these ones here go on about 'Ayahuasca abuse' are native, because any real indigenous person would know that these plants are sacred in indigenous cultures, used for healing and so on.
But I only showed that as an example of the only in-depth example of the connection between UFOs and indigenous people. I am not saying ALL people who see UFOs take entheogens.
The bottom link was an actual UFO event at a school where children saw UFOs land and occupants get out.
If poeple aren't ieven curious agbout this I find that a certain deadness is afoot!
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You seem unable to grasp basic information that people have kindly taken the time to provide.
I find your last post arrogant and offensive.
Why on earth should native people respond to demands for answers to questions that have nothing to do with them and that demonstrate racism and stereotypical fantasies about native people on the part of the questioner?
You are the one who is interested in UFOs, not native people. What on earth makes you think that native people should be interested in your obsessions about UFOs?
I am shocked that IF these ones here go on about 'Ayahuasca abuse' are native, because any real indigenous person would know that these plants are sacred in indigenous cultures, used for healing and so on.
Nobody is questioning that some plants are sacred. These plants have been used for generations within some native communities as part of their religious ceremonies. This is an entirely different thing to ayahusaca tourism, where anyone pays a fee (usually a lot of money) to take part in some ceremony or other that has nothing to do with their community or the community of the person charging for the experience.
You have a lot to learn yet you seem unable to hear what people here are saying. I do not understand why you bother to ask questions if you will only actually listen to answers that conform to your perspective of the world.
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So OK let's please then forget him, and remember my original intent is help with my research into the authentic Native history of 'UFOs' and their occupants?
Unfortunately this guy is fairly typical of the type of person and the quality of research and evidence they have. You probably won't find any topic which attracts more cranks and crazies. Some are exploitative, and we are happy to expose such people. Many are people needing professional help who have found an unfortunate obsession with the topic and often get used and abused by exploiters.
A great many people, everyone from Native elders to Carl Sagan, admit the possibility of beings on other planets. The problem becomes weeding out all the loons and poor and even faked evidence. You need to likely start by looking at better sources. I frankly wouldn't trust anything online on the subject that is not either an astronomy website run from a university, or the most carefully gathered traditional accounts of elders, written up by anthropologists acting in good faith and with rigorous standards.
The absolute last place you should look is any UFO enthusiast site because 99% of them will be complete garbage, run by nuts who want attention and sometimes cash. As far asking Native people, many will be reluctant to talk about traditional accounts because we've seen so often they get misread, twisted, and lied about. On top of that, so many will read into any account of contact with spirits and insist "those dumb Indians were really worshipping aliens." The crude racism of many UFO lovers is quite common, all kinds of stereotypes about primitives coming into play.
Again, if you are serious about this, your best bet is an astronomy or anthropology site run by academics.
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Looking at that last article about the "South American 'shamanistic' art", I have no idea what tribe (important factor for evidence) this Pablo guy (the guy who did the paintings) is from except that the article says he's a "Peruvian Shaman", which doesn't help your case if you're trying to "convince" us that there is a native/UFO connection.
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You seem unable to grasp basic information that people have kindly taken the time to provide.
I find your last post arrogant and offensive.
Why on earth should native people respond to demands for answers to questions that have nothing to do with them and that demonstrate racism and stereotypical fantasies about native people on the part of the questioner?
Keep your shirt on. I am not demanding. And I have already explained more than once--the whole point i inquired here was to not have yo rely on steroetypical 'plastic natives'
You are the one who is interested in UFOs, not native people. What on earth makes you think that native people should be interested in your obsessions about UFOs?
Errrrm how can you speak for ALL native peoples?
What on earth makes you think you know what ALL natives people should be interested in?
Nobody is questioning that some plants are sacred. These plants have been used for generations within some native communities as part of their religious ceremonies. This is an entirely different thing to ayahusaca tourism, where anyone pays a fee (usually a lot of money) to take part in some ceremony or other that has nothing to do with their community or the community of the person charging for the experience.
That is something I am VERY interested in, but would want to save it for another thread. I have never been to South America and paid for Ayahuasca sessions etc, but know people who do, and it does seem to conflict with what I have heard Native Americans say about not charging money. I really do want to get into this in another thread.
You have a lot to learn yet you seem unable to hear what people here are saying. I do not understand why you bother to ask questions if you will only actually listen to answers that conform to your perspective of the world.
That is unfair. I do try and listen, otherwise why would I be asking questions :)
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Looking at that last article about the "South American 'shamanistic' art", I have no idea what tribe (important factor for evidence) this Pablo guy (the guy who did the paintings) is from except that the article says he's a "Peruvian Shaman", which doesn't help your case if you're trying to "convince" us that there is a native/UFO connection.
Just in case you missed it.
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Unfortunately this guy [petrogyphsinthesky] is fairly typical of the type of person and the quality of research and evidence they have. You probably won't find any topic which attracts more cranks and crazies. Some are exploitative, and we are happy to expose such people. Many are people needing professional help who have found an unfortunate obsession with the topic and often get used and abused by exploiters.
Maybe your right. I only used him as an example because the only others I know (apart from very few seeming genuine native people who have briefly referred to this subject) are Dr Boylan and his 'Indians.
I quoted his the other guy's 'rant' because I was so shocked by his dreadfull worldview and wanted to see reaction here
A great many people, everyone from Native elders to Carl Sagan, admit the possibility of beings on other planets. The problem becomes weeding out all the loons and poor and even faked evidence. You need to likely start by looking at better sources. I frankly wouldn't trust anything online on the subject that is not either an astronomy website run from a university, or the most carefully gathered traditional accounts of elders, written up by anthropologists acting in good faith and with rigorous standards.
In this I think your wrong--partly. I have two quite large files on UFO phenomena all from online sources, and they are good sources. One example--The Phoenix Lights. This was actually televized on TV in 1997, and cannot be explained away, and thousands of people say a massive silent craft glide over them which many said was 'otherworldly.
In my experience at 'mainstream science' sites trying to talk about this subject, I have been net with utter direspect, and I include foul language also. These people pay homage to the cult of scientism not science.
There is MUCH evidence for this phenomena--it happend over NYC just last October, and it was NOT balloons. The balloons explanation is propaganda. This follows a pattern with other events when actual observers see something non-ordinary. At Phoenic '97 the propaganda was 'flares'. These absurd explanation patronize common people.
The absolute last place you should look is any UFO enthusiast site because 99% of them will be complete garbage, run by nuts who want attention and sometimes cash. As far asking Native people, many will be reluctant to talk about traditional accounts because we've seen so often they get misread, twisted, and lied about. On top of that, so many will read into any account of contact with spirits and insist "those dumb Indians were really worshipping aliens." The crude racism of many UFO lovers is quite common, all kinds of stereotypes about primitives coming into play.
Again, if you are serious about this, your best bet is an astronomy or anthropology site run by academics.
I wish native peoples would see this thread and trust I in no way would offend them if they shared with me such knowledge. Look, I feel that nature is alive. I do not buy the non-native view of the world which separates nature from spirit. So how do I then see the UFO phenomenon? I do not know--it is very confusing! I try and not put it all into one bag. It is some phenomena which I feel challenges especially the dead western worldview which is destroying the web of life. But it is very very complex, and real.
You cant talk with many so-called scientists about this because they cling to their materialistic worldview, and many can get very offensive. I was treated like shit a the Richard Dawkins forums when I tried to discuss about this subject.
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Looking at that last article about the "South American 'shamanistic' art", I have no idea what tribe (important factor for evidence) this Pablo guy (the guy who did the paintings) is from except that the article says he's a "Peruvian Shaman", which doesn't help your case if you're trying to "convince" us that there is a native/UFO connection.
See here: Master Shaman Jose Vargas’ Alien Encounters (Video) (http://www.disinfo.com/2010/02/master-shaman-jose-vargas-alien-encounters-video/)
and The Ayahuasca-Alien Connection (http://deoxy.org/ayalien.htm)
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i have no idea what ufo's are, I mean, other than "unidentifiable flying objects"..
which I've seen here and there.. but not so sure on "alien" (other worldly) visitors..
but I did find this news report to be a bit believable, and sincere. Somehow, I can't
come up with a manageable idea as to why these people would just stand around
and lie? (and maybe should move thread to etc? :) )
Former US Air Force officers discuss UFO's .. dated 9/27/2010..
http://blip.tv/file/4177133
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I'm sorry, but when you start mixing in drugs.. sacred plant or not.. I just can't
"trust" what someone has drawn or depicted while under the influence. I cannot
take what they give as credible.. because I don't know what the drug is doing
to them, and it, to my mind anyway, would or should be a very personal and
private thing/meaning.. not some depictions of alien spaceships.. who knows
what they are seeing while involved with a drug/plant?
Maybe they're giving depictions of something in the future.. that is man made? Who could
possibly know? Maybe it's just fantasy..
So, yeh, I just can't all out believe someone under an influence, especially mind altering
influence.
Looking at that last article about the "South American 'shamanistic' art", I have no idea what tribe (important factor for evidence) this Pablo guy (the guy who did the paintings) is from except that the article says he's a "Peruvian Shaman", which doesn't help your case if you're trying to "convince" us that there is a native/UFO connection.
See here: Master Shaman Jose Vargas’ Alien Encounters (Video) (http://www.disinfo.com/2010/02/master-shaman-jose-vargas-alien-encounters-video/)
and The Ayahuasca-Alien Connection (http://deoxy.org/ayalien.htm)
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Just feel like sharing some video links, i've got a few more but these really made me think when i saw them.
Larry King (CNN) show about UFO's.
Don't like how they're patronizing Bill Nye but still very interesting
1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J98OBPT_o30
2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk6_6KPbEPI
3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC4macIn45s
4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB0TQO9mtzc
Former US astronauts talk about UFO's
Gordon Cooper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvPR8T1o3Dc
Edgar Mitchell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5upFvipUAXs
Buzz Aldrin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlkV1ybBnHI
I've always tried to be skeptical about any kind of UFO footage. Also i don't have a 'trained eye' for examining such videos. But these testimonies should be taken seriously... many of these men have passed all kinds of extremely sophisticated physical and mental tests to do their work. I think either way it's very important that these kind of matters deserve an unbiased investigation. Either a group of dozens of people in the army/air force have been hallucinating/experienced a psychosis, altogether, at an army base with nuclear weapons - which is a very dangerous situation. Or their stories are actually real. ::)
Just my two cents. Like someone else here said, it's better to stay away from UFO websites. Usually like 99% rubbish and it can be hard to distinguish what could be real of it, if anything. There's a few people who collect genuine & important testimonies and evidence but also thousands of loonies.
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Digging yourself into another whole.
See here: Master Shaman Jose Vargas’ Alien Encounters (Video) (http://www.disinfo.com/2010/02/master-shaman-jose-vargas-alien-encounters-video/)
This link has a tribe name (chavin) in there which could make people believe in it, but if someone were to read it, they're just describing how old it is since the Chavin were from 900 BC to 200 BC. Also, the Chimbrew Shamanic Retreat looks like a new ager retreat especially if they're trying to get people to develop clairvoyant and telepathic senses as you can see here:
http://www.chimbre.com
and The Ayahuasca-Alien Connection (http://deoxy.org/ayalien.htm)
That's about the same thing as you shown before which got me questioning.
Did some research on this Pablo guy:
http://www.pabloamaringo.com
It looks like he paints many things.
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Some will not want to hear this, and some will simply laugh and think it`s crazy, but I`ll say it anyway... who knows how "true" it may be?
This is what I have heard, and the way I have hear it...
It seems that every culture, as far back as anyone cares to look have been "visited" by something outside of their experience. These "visitors" have been described as little people, trolls, angels, gods, aliens etc, etc, but they all appear to have come from the same place to interact with "humanity" every so often, briefly.
They are "all " inter-dimensional entities which means that they don`t need a UFO to get around and just because you happen to see a "vehicle" it doesn`t necessarily indicate that planetary travel is involved though in some cases it might actually be, though usually not.
Many native peoples have stories about coming from the stars originally, in other words they recall having been "seeded here" as have all other races. The "white race" having been the last brought here by the "gods".
The Hopi and others didn`t just pop up out of the ground one day unaware, having been here early on they were actually "rescued" from a horrific cataclysm in Asia and brought to the area they are in now.
Some of them must have made that connection to the "ant people" who rescued them and the common big headed alien by now, no doubt.
Yet being "rescued" for their own benefit or the benefit of the ant people is still be to discovered.
We are here, every one of us, because we are the "food supply" of the inter dimensional`s.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Get beyond the "alien glamor" garbage and understand that we are an "energy" food source" for these beings and as long as this is the case, this game of hide and seek with them continues.
Getting stoned and seeking them out, is the most foolish thing anyone could do and there is no reason whats so ever to believe that any "visions" being given by the "masters" of the game, are going to be worth a damn, other then to pump up an ego and make a person feel "speshel" in some way.
They are not here to help us, they farm us!
Our ancient ancestors knew this to be the truth, and were every bit as "enslaved" by some "god" then, as we are now. And many people simply fell for the "wonder" of it all at the time.
The sooner we all realize this and remember why we`re here...the better to start actually doing something about it, together... in unity.
First thing, learn to control your emotions, and stop feeding them.
It`s all there for anybody to discover for themselves, when your finally ready to "face the truth and the terror " of the human situation on this little planet.
Hmm, is any of that true...who knows.
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Digging yourself into another whole.
See here: Master Shaman Jose Vargas’ Alien Encounters (Video) (http://www.disinfo.com/2010/02/master-shaman-jose-vargas-alien-encounters-video/)
This link has a tribe name (chavin) in there which could make people believe in it, but if someone were to read it, they're just describing how old it is since the Chavin were from 900 BC to 200 BC. Also, the Chimbrew Shamanic Retreat looks like a new ager retreat especially if they're trying to get people to develop clairvoyant and telepathic senses as you can see here:
http://www.chimbre.com
This is the guy I was going to ask about one day, but forgot! Jose Pineda Vargas... Who is that guy anyway? Seen the Little Grandmother tribers and some others linking his videos in fb... Feels like a fake to me, but a new one and not sure, first time I bump into him at least.
some info here: http://www.soga-del-alma.org/featuring/curanderos/item/30-jose-pineda-vargas.html
"Jose Pineda Vargas, whose traditional family name is "Mancoluto," is a first level shaman in his native tradition. His lineage runs through many generations of shamans and back to the ancient Chavin civilization, one of the oldest of South America. Displaying psychic abilities at a young age, Vargas's family began his shamanic training early by taking him on ayahuasca journeys when he was only eight years old. For many years, Master Mancoluto worked in hospitals as a medical consultant, utilizing his knowledge of human physiology and psychology, as well as natural medicines, to assist patients.
His ceremonies feature a rare Chavin initiation process that provides interpretations of the visions and experiences of each participant's journey. Vargas calls on both the teacher plant ayahuasca (the vine of souls) and the San Pedro cactus (Huachuma) to heal and cleanse initiates' physical and energetic bodies, open their minds to deeper realities, develop their intuitive capabilities, and unlock their untapped potential."
And @ Karen, I hope you are not right, because these unidentified things are all over right now and people are encouraged to call them with all their power. :)
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i have no idea what ufo's are, I mean, other than "unidentifiable flying objects"..
which I've seen here and there.. but not so sure on "alien" (other worldly) visitors..
but I did find this news report to be a bit believable, and sincere. Somehow, I can't
come up with a manageable idea as to why these people would just stand around
and lie? (and maybe should move thread to etc? :) )
Former US Air Force officers discuss UFO's .. dated 9/27/2010..
http://blip.tv/file/4177133
yes I am glad you linked about that here. That these UFOs seem very concerned with 'our' use of nuclear weaponry which is extraordinarily damaging to the environment. I don't know if you know that in the American Gulf war, and Iraqi and Afghanistan invasions 9though both are invasions) they used depleted uranium in their weaponry which is radioactive. Not only is it one of the most destructive weapons it comaninates the land water and air for millions of years, and causes horrific DNA damage of human foetuses (possibly animal also, of course, but I am only familr--sadlly--with the utter horror (beyond words) I have seen done to 'babies'. Many people are also still imagining the 'Cold War understanding of nuclear bombs which was bad enough, but now the powers that be are in love with mini nukes and also used thim in their Iraqi and Afghanistan 'video-game-invasions'. SO---IF there are UFOs taking it upon themselves to be concerned about this, and actively congregating outside these nuclear bases and in some cases disengaging the weapony are we to think of them as an enemy of humanity and earth OR a welcome friend? What do you think?
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Just feel like sharing some video links, i've got a few more but these really made me think when i saw them.
Larry King (CNN) show about UFO's.
Don't like how they're patronizing Bill Nye but still very interesting
1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J98OBPT_o30
2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk6_6KPbEPI
3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC4macIn45s
4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB0TQO9mtzc
Former US astronauts talk about UFO's
Gordon Cooper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvPR8T1o3Dc
Edgar Mitchell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5upFvipUAXs
Buzz Aldrin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlkV1ybBnHI
I've always tried to be skeptical about any kind of UFO footage. Also i don't have a 'trained eye' for examining such videos. But these testimonies should be taken seriously... many of these men have passed all kinds of extremely sophisticated physical and mental tests to do their work. I think either way it's very important that these kind of matters deserve an unbiased investigation. Either a group of dozens of people in the army/air force have been hallucinating/experienced a psychosis, altogether, at an army base with nuclear weapons - which is a very dangerous situation. Or their stories are actually real. ::)
Just my two cents. Like someone else here said, it's better to stay away from UFO websites. Usually like 99% rubbish and it can be hard to distinguish what could be real of it, if anything. There's a few people who collect genuine & important testimonies and evidence but also thousands of loonies.
Hi Crescent, I am sorry--I was going to reply to your personal email today where you linked me to these links, but seeing you have posted this here, I'll reply here in stead. I have two fairly big diverse files complied over a time, and think I should have most of what you showing here. I will take a look at them all later, thanks :)
I think you are wrong to claim that 99% of UFO sites are wrong. If it wasn't for these people this subject would not be as known about as it is. Why should we sorship the so-called scientists? In my experience--the ones I have met online at various forums, many of the ones who love to make out they 'know' are some of the most arrogant, ignore-ant, and often foul-mouthed people I have ever had the misfortune to meet. It is not science these people support but scientism! Scientism is the new religion of 'science' which demands you conform to their version of 'reality'. This mindset is what arrived on the shores of the Americas and did what it did--at its helm was the likes of Sir Francis Bacon who believed 'we' had the right to rape mother earth and get her secrets. They are the last people I would trust. Now the so-called big science is completely tied up with corporate interests not what science should be which is wonder about reality, and respecting anomalies that cannot be understood. I have been accused once or twice here of being disrespectful. I only wish you could have heard what some of these types have said to me in the past when I have simply wanted to discuss areas of research which they will NOT accept.
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Digging yourself into another whole.
See here: Master Shaman Jose Vargas’ Alien Encounters (Video) (http://www.disinfo.com/2010/02/master-shaman-jose-vargas-alien-encounters-video/)
This link has a tribe name (chavin) in there which could make people believe in it, but if someone were to read it, they're just describing how old it is since the Chavin were from 900 BC to 200 BC. Also, the Chimbrew Shamanic Retreat looks like a new ager retreat especially if they're trying to get people to develop clairvoyant and telepathic senses as you can see here:
http://www.chimbre.com
and The Ayahuasca-Alien Connection (http://deoxy.org/ayalien.htm)
That's about the same thing as you shown before which got me questioning.
Did some research on this Pablo guy:
http://www.pabloamaringo.com
It looks like he paints many things.
I am not diggin myself into a 'hole' (a Whole, maybe, :D) because I am not trying to prove a point, or defend some 'truth' I am trying to preach. I am learning, and love asking questions which is why I am here. I have personally never taken Ayahuasca (though I have taken a couple of other entheogens), nor been part of Ayahuasca tourism, though I have read accounts of dramtic spiritual and physical healing from people who have.
I admit that that Chimbrew 'shamanistic' retreat does smell of new ageyness. Just the fact they are using the term 'shaman' makes me suspicious as it is the catch-all fave name of the new age now as I am sure you know. Where they talk about Atlantis and Lemuria particularly exposes its new age affiliations. The guy on the video at that link claims he 'felt so bad for the poor' that he flashed his card (one of em no doubt) and bought them all pizzas, and from there uses that to say how he was inspired from a 'shaman' to open the retreat which to me looks like it would not accept poor people but only very rich middle class people and will be expensive. If all that is so I would be very suspicious yes!
As for Pablo Amaringo, I have his book which feaures all that art. I have no reason to distrust him and his visions, and from western research into DMT is is fairly common for people to experience UFOs and their entities in these experiences. I see a continuum. I do not divide 'visions' from 'reality'.
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I'm sorry, but when you start mixing in drugs.. sacred plant or not.. I just can't
"trust" what someone has drawn or depicted while under the influence. I cannot
take what they give as credible.. because I don't know what the drug is doing
to them, and it, to my mind anyway, would or should be a very personal and
private thing/meaning.. not some depictions of alien spaceships.. who knows
what they are seeing while involved with a drug/plant?
Maybe they're giving depictions of something in the future.. that is man made? Who could
possibly know? Maybe it's just fantasy..
So, yeh, I just can't all out believe someone under an influence, especially mind altering
influence.
I am glad you have raised this question, because it is important and will give me reason to reflect on it. I have had personal experience with entheogens in my life (first time being 15 with LSD, and later with sacred mushrooms), and also have done research about them. My first experience opened my eyes to the wonder and interconnectedness of the natural world--something I had lost from being little and through terrible school experienc where I had become a bit sadistic, hard, and in love with the image of the big city.
My first trip I became very aware of pther peoples (I was at a party and they weren't tripping) body language. It was real, and was not me imagining it. Psychologists will tell you that people reveal body language in various ways and they intellectually study it and practice to see it, but I was seeing it very powerfully with inspiration from LSD. These entheogens do not make us 'hallucinate'--ie., seeing something that isn't there--but rather are like some kind of interdimensional microscope which help us see deeper into reality. Mostly we see and understand reality through the veils of propaganda pushed on us via tradition, school, mass media, etc. So to assume how we usually are is 'normal' is a presumption as that may not be the case.
People who have not had entheogens and yet speak about encounters with UFOs and also their entities will also speak of time distortion, and spiritual after effects also which can be experienced with sacred plants, entheogens. So it is more a continuum.
When we eat food food has vitamins and mineral right, and so does good water. When we eat right we can feel more vital. We don't say that the 'food' makes us like that, and that this vitality is fantasy do we?
We feel healthy and vital. Isn't sacred vegetation a food also?
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[Some will not want to hear this, and some will simply laugh and think it`s crazy, but I`ll say it anyway... who knows how "true" it may be?
This is what I have heard, and the way I have hear it...]
Hi Karen. If I may ask, are you native and if so which tribe do you belong? Who have you heard this from? Can you be specific as possible pleas?
It seems that every culture, as far back as anyone cares to look have been "visited" by something outside of their experience. These "visitors" have been described as little people, trolls, angels, gods, aliens etc, etc, but they all appear to have come from the same place to interact with "humanity" every so often, briefly.
They are "all " inter-dimensional entities which means that they don`t need a UFO to get around and just because you happen to see a "vehicle" it doesn`t necessarily indicate that planetary travel is involved though in some cases it might actually be, though usually not.
Well it is too soon to jump to conclusions.
Many native peoples have stories about coming from the stars originally, in other words they recall having been "seeded here" as have all other races. The "white race" having been the last brought here by the "gods".
People of the Goddess don't. They see the earth as the Goddess, and home, but also as not separated from the universe which is also the womb.
The Hopi and others didn`t just pop up out of the ground one day unaware, having been here early on they were actually "rescued" from a horrific cataclysm in Asia and brought to the area they are in now.
Some of them must have made that connection to the "ant people" who rescued them and the common big headed alien by now, no doubt.
Yet being "rescued" for their own benefit or the benefit of the ant people is still be to discovered.
We are here, every one of us, because we are the "food supply" of the inter dimensional`s.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Now from that you jump to this. You seem to have subsumed all the entities to mean the 'Ant people ala Greys'--the 'interdimensionals'-- and assume that we are their domestic stock and food supply. Are you claiming just the the Hopi believe this? Can you provide any sources for your assertion?
Get beyond the "alien glamor" garbage and understand that we are an "energy" food source" for these beings and as long as this is the case, this game of hide and seek with them continues.
Getting stoned and seeking them out, is the most foolish thing anyone could do and there is no reason whats so ever to believe that any "visions" being given by the "masters" of the game, are going to be worth a damn, other then to pump up an ego and make a person feel "speshel" in some way.
They are not here to help us, they farm us!
Once again you claim we are an energy food source for these beings. What beings? Are you claiming these beings --ALL of them--are this one beings you mean who see us as energetic food supply?
What is the main sources for what you are claiming here please?
I can imagine that taking sacraments and meeting other beings would seem dangerous with a worldview you have, but from what I have experienced, and many otther reports from people who have had these deep experiences with an Ayahuescero, or not, are not as negative as your making out. And they tend to deconstruct 'ego' not pump it up as you put it. Even western consciousness researchers know that serious sacred use of entheogens can bring about ego death and death/rebirth experience!
Our ancient ancestors knew this to be the truth, and were every bit as "enslaved" by some "god" then, as we are now. And many people simply fell for the "wonder" of it all at the time.
You seem to be on same wavelength as the petrog;yphs in the air guy--so much so before replying I did a Google of your name with his to see if there was any connection.
When you say our ancient ancestors knew this to be the truth--is this just a personl assumption of yours or can you provide me with genuine sources which back up what you claim? Also its a contradiction for you to say on one hand they knew this 'truth' yet became enslaved with it. For if you know this you wouldn't allow yourself to become enslaved by beings claiming to be your gods. In all encounter reprts I have read, not once had I heard these beings say to the contatees or abductees they are our gods. Not that I can remember anyhow. If you could find one I would look at it. What I have read is that they rather warn people what us humans are doing to this wonderful earth! They show the actual damage and what is going to happen if 'we' continue the route we are on.
The sooner we all realize this and remember why we`re here...the better to start actually doing something about it, together... in unity.
First thing, learn to control your emotions, and stop feeding them.
It`s all there for anybody to discover for themselves, when your finally ready to "face the truth and the terror " of the human situation on this little planet.
Hmm, is any of that true...who knows.
Well, with respect, you do seem to make out you know. As well as this interest I of course am very much interested in facing the truth of what is going on with this world, and it is very harrowing to face as well. have you seen the film The New American Century? You can see the full film at Youtube. it is AWFUL. So----IF you were to realize that, and also entertain a worldview that 'spirits in the sky' are also on our case, I cannot think of a more dreadful negative scenario, and this is why I am making effort to challenge it.
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Well
Some will not want to hear this, and some will simply laugh and think it`s crazy,
They are not here to help us, they farm us!
That has been my experience as well. I have seen it myself. But, with one side always comes another.. in my experience, and so my belief, there are entities on another side.. just.. not who people think it is.
I personally have seen the farmers "harvesting" the super religious. Which is why I'm against the religions, not sure it's always been that way, but it is now.
The old traditions that incorporated a certain level of discipline, seem to work against the farmers. But, now a days, the new age people lack any of that.. and so do most of the current religions.
edit: by disciplines I am meaning that of mind, emotion and body. keen self awareness is the only way to know what is you.. and what is not.
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These new agers, including Little Grandmother, actually tell you to ask these beings in your life and give them all love, and what ever they might want, to come "real".
Anyway, wanted to say actually something else. I have been watching volcano webcams a lot lately since there is tons of active volcanoes right now... It seems that while watching volcanoes, you will see unidentified ligth shows occasionally, especially night time, other than lava shows... If there are these beings, could it be that they are farmind energy from volcanoes as well?
("If" because I have no real interest to let them close to me and it is more or less irrelevant if they are flying around or not to me, ofc they are welcome in that one occasion that they are here to help to repair the damage on earth tho, like some seem to think... I however like to act myself to ensure that something is done...)
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I am Lakota and Dakota i live on my reservation among my people I follow my way of life,
Two questions?
Why do you want proof?
What would you gain from It?
We have had other people come and ask us this question before,
and we have even our own people go a little out there like the guy from Yankton.
We have our oral stories but they belong to the Native people and right now
we need preseve our stories among us after what we seen happen to our
belief and way of life with all these new ager, cracked people we will continue
to protect our stories from the Non-Native
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Saga, I personally know nothing about volcanoes and the thoughts/ideas that come with origin of these entities..
I only know what I experienced first hand. And from that I can only say that it is wrong to hand over your life, soul,
life force/direction, etc., to something you know nothing about. To me, it is a fallacy. I am the one living here, and I
am the only one who gets to choose what to do, or how to do it. I am the only one who gets to choose where to
go or not go.. and.. I am the only one who gets to choose how to handle life's difficulties, and life's joys. I believe life
is my experience, although, not alive for myself.
In my experience, when guidance has come it does not include the giving up of my soul, it does not include ultimatums
that define what I must accept or believe in order to receive such guidance. The guidance of the good source is at
no cost to the receiver and there is no punishment or reward for denying or accepting the guidance. It is free on all
levels.
I've met many people who offer guidance from "beyond" or some such.. yet they have a price attached. So, who are
they reflecting? Can't be the good source.. imo.
New agers, imo, are being misled. I'm not sure what can be done about that.. however, this is a forum that is intended
to preserve the indigenous beliefs from the onslaught of these misled, misguided new agers. Whatever my beliefs, and
experiences, I am here because I believe it's vital for the indigenous to maintain their beliefs, safe. And as un-influenced
as possible. I see the new age thing (and the original religious invasion of the white people) as an attack, based from
the source that I consider them to be guided by.. which is not the "good" source that I know of.
My advice, stay away from all the conspiracy theories and ufo theories and new age gumbo jumbo theories that are
plastered all over the net. Work within and from your own self.
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Critter, if you knew me, you would know that I am not very liked anywhere, because I question everything and am not too willing to be led anywhere. :) And fortunately my heart truly agrees only with my own view until I have heavy proof about something else, so I am relatively safe. I have been looking into this "spiritual" chaos and new age stuff that is going on all over tho, to know what is going on and because some of it is really interesting. I get my own guidance from the nature really, and that is the only guidance I follow without questioning, my own intuition and heart. I would never pay anything to receive any kind of teachings and am very cautious about anything "channeled" or what ever. I think everyone should have their personal connection to spirituality.
Just wanted to say something about the volcanoes, because I have been watching the live web cams and few times I have seen something I can't quite explain. Which is interesting, but I am such a suspicious person that I wont do any conclusions about that. ;)
And as a comment on keeping your own stories and beliefs safe, I can fully understand that. What I can't understand is that people want to know all about native american and other beliefs as far away from their own roots as possible and don't use the time better by getting to know the beliefs and stories of their own ancestors... Often there might be the same kind of stories there, when going far back with history books... or even more fascinating stories, since they are from your own people.
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This is the guy I was going to ask about one day, but forgot! Jose Pineda Vargas... Who is that guy anyway? Seen the Little Grandmother tribers and some others linking his videos in fb... Feels like a fake to me, but a new one and not sure, first time I bump into him at least.
some info here: http://www.soga-del-alma.org/featuring/curanderos/item/30-jose-pineda-vargas.html
"Jose Pineda Vargas, whose traditional family name is "Mancoluto," is a first level shaman in his native tradition. His lineage runs through many generations of shamans and back to the ancient Chavin civilization, one of the oldest of South America. Displaying psychic abilities at a young age, Vargas's family began his shamanic training early by taking him on ayahuasca journeys when he was only eight years old. For many years, Master Mancoluto worked in hospitals as a medical consultant, utilizing his knowledge of human physiology and psychology, as well as natural medicines, to assist patients.
His ceremonies feature a rare Chavin initiation process that provides interpretations of the visions and experiences of each participant's journey. Vargas calls on both the teacher plant ayahuasca (the vine of souls) and the San Pedro cactus (Huachuma) to heal and cleanse initiates' physical and energetic bodies, open their minds to deeper realities, develop their intuitive capabilities, and unlock their untapped potential."
I guess the "Chavin" are the "Toltecs" of South America? By which I mean they use an ancient culture in name only.
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Wow, i didn't think people here would be so willing to talk about this subject. I don't think all of these things are some kind of energy farmers, though some probably are.
From what i've learned through transpersonal regression therapy, many of the countless alien abduction cases (during sleep) are the same kind of phenomena as the Incubus and the Succubus, only the modern day version. If they are indeed caused by entities from some kind of different dimension, these may be the same kind of energy farmers you're speaking of. And yes, this is something that should not be underestimated, it can cause a lot of problems. Probably none of these 'abductees' have been on real, physical ships, but i do think these kind of experiences are something more than bad dreams.
Also interesting: i don't know if you people have ever taken the time to look at crop circles from recent years. I have to say that some of these designs are so incredibly complex, geometrically perfect and amazing that they simply can't be made by us or by any machines we have... seriously. You could take a look at http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2010/2010.html and choose a month, every one has some amazing circles, and these are only the ones from the UK, in 2010. From what i've read about crop circles, these are probably also some kind of interdimensional phenomena, for lack of a better word. Though i personally don't believe they're something bad.
As opposed to all this dimensions stuff, there are many testimonies from really credible sources that tell a different story about UFOs. Allegedly, some of them have been shot or have crashed. The ones controlling them are not omniscient, immortal or perfect, they make mistakes. And the wreckages have allegedly been salvaged as well. I've never found any testimony or story about an attack by a UFO. Only, several times, how they've shut down missile defense systems or even missiles that were already up in the air.
But yes, of course we should be careful and don't invite anything that we don't know, and have these happy hippie thoughts about how they're gonna save us. Here's one other video i'd like to share, a very large one: a 4 hour witness testimony DVD by Steven Greer, from around 2000 i believe. Especially part 2 was interesting to me. I don't know if all of these people are trustworthy (Bob Dean is not) but most are. Many high ranking senior government officials.
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud49Gh9yYLs
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpHAxxRKksQ
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Well, have to also take into consideration the mind, and fantasy. And the mind's ability to project illusion, for the sake of survival or trauma of some kind.
Not everyone's claims are real, although to them, they may very well be. And, as a society apparently plummeting, perhaps a shared psychosis or delusion, escape mechanism.
I am not sold on any one set theory, nor am I sold entirely on my own personal experiences. I leave room to be wrong..
because I always believe there is more than I know now, that would probably change how I perceive/think of it now.. :)
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This is not the alien forum. Topic locked.