Author Topic: Sizzle Flambé says Hello  (Read 101935 times)

Offline Rattlebone

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Re: Sizzle Flambé says Hello
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2009, 01:45:07 am »


Quote
Here's Ben Carnes, Chief of the Choctaw, rebuking Monica's anti-white racism:


 Ben Carnes is NOT the chief of the Choctaw, and I don't know why you are trying to drag his name into this thread.

 Though I will agree with you that racism against any group of people regardless if they are white or not is wrong, it seems you are dropping the name of a native person in this thread as some sort of leverage.

 Just because one NDN person says this or that is wrong or right, does not mean that NDN person speaks on behalf of all.

  This thread is not about Ben Carnes or his family, so keep his name out of it.

Offline Sizzle Flambé

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Re: Sizzle Flambé says Hello
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2009, 02:48:53 am »
Ben Carnes is NOT the chief of the Choctaw,...

So revised, and with due credit to you for the correction. He is the Sun Dance Chief of the Choctaw.

Quote
... and I don't know why you are trying to drag his name into this thread.

The context was clearly given. Cetan suggested that only white people were offended by Monica's anti-white racism. Here was a prominent Indian who also was offended; in fact, this was his last post to alt.native. I actually held off reposting it here until the anniversary of its original posting date, August 16, 2006, in honor of the occasion. He spoke clearly and eloquently for himself, of his own will; he wasn't "dragged" into doing that. Those were his own words.

Offline Cetan

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Re: Sizzle Flambé says Hello
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2009, 04:49:31 pm »
No disrespect meant to Ben Carnes but Sundance is not a Choctaw tradition, in recent times many people of other tribes have participated in Sundances but historically it is a Northern Plains tradition; so while Ben is a Sundance Chief he is a Choctaw who is a Sundance Chief but his is not the Subndance Chief of the Choctaw. I know there is a lot of controversy over whether someone from another tribe can even be a Sundance chief and if his Sundance is a L(DN)akota Sundance (singing the Lakota songs and running it the way the LDN Nation does) does he have a right to do that - and I dont want to get into that here; just pointing out the inaccuracy of calling him the Sundance Chief of the Choctaw.  Also that post is 2 years old and for all I know they have resolved their differences and quite honestly it is not uncommon to hear disapproval in the Native communities when a member marries a non-NDN.  But the main point, which you still dont seem to be able to get, is that whether or not you like or agree with Monica or not - this board exists to expose frauds - those that charge for ceremony and/or conduct unauthorized ceremonies. What evidence do you have that Monica has ever done either of those those things?

Offline Sizzle Flambé

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Re: Sizzle Flambé says Hello
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2009, 05:34:17 am »
Cetan, I have not accused Monica of those things (charging for ceremony / unauthorized ceremony), so kindly stop trying to put words in my mouth by demanding I present evidence on accusations I never made. This is the second time we've gone around on the same point.

The dishonesty in question was her disinformation on public issues (as noted twice by News from Indian Country) and her malicious smear jobs against other people.

She also makes common cause with Betsy Ashby "Guardian", whose less-than-honorable activities were already of interest here.

Another of her close associates and mutual-supporters on alt.native is purported "Native American author" David Seals, to whom NAFPS might perhaps pay closer attention. Seals is active in AIM, and since back in the 1970s has variously claimed to be Huron or Cheyenne, but now (since the Indian Arts and Crafts Act of 1990) is far more coy about making any explicit claims of "Indian" status -- relying on implications -- and consistently evades answering questions about his enrollment. (Yes, I've got requests in to the Wyandotte and Cheyenne Nations, just in case. But I think his evasions answered the questions.)

Seals has made money, in fact a career, as a "Native American author"... and isn't one. Does that begin to resemble "fraud"?

Some links and quotes were provided in <http://tinyurl.com/daveseals-faux-indian>, but NOTE: that's addressed to alt.native regulars who deal with Dave Seals all the time and are familiar with his posts. It is not a self-contained compendium of his deceptions and evasions and all the "evidence" thereof. You can read around the newsgroup for the rest, if interested.

Offline Cetan

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Re: Sizzle Flambé says Hello
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2009, 03:11:47 pm »
From this group
"PURPOSE OF THIS GROUP: All New People Must Read

New Age Frauds Plastic Shamans or NAFPS is an activist group of Native people and our supporters. We began NAFPS five years ago as a Yahoo club/group and went through a lot together, at least eight unsuccessful attempts to shut us down, empty threats of lawsuits, stalkers, identity thieves, libel campaigns, and even death threats. We have emerged from it all relatively unscathed and more determined than ever to continue our work.

Ths group and forum is for those concerned about the fraud, deceit, money hunger, sexual abuse, racism, control, hunger for power and ego, and cult-like tendencies of the New Age movement and pseudo "shamans." We investigate and seek to warn the public about impostors and exploiters posing as Native medicine people or elders. There are more than two hundred impostors out there posing as Cherokee medicine people alone. Multiply that by five hundred Native nations in the US, and add on the exploiters who abuse or lie about practices of Latin America's Indians, and you get an idea of the sheer, massive scope of the problem."

If you have an issue with David Seals then make a topic showing proof. And Indian Country Today is not the endall and beall of truthfulness in reporting, they have taken a pro-govt/anti-AIM, anti-grassroots position more than once. But again the purpose of this group is to expose frauds, nothing else. If you have issues with someones viewpoints then go express yourself on alt.native or indianz.com where catfights are the norm and stop wasting our time here with your personal vendettas and agendas
« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 03:18:16 pm by Cetan »

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Sizzle Flambé says Hello
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2009, 04:02:57 pm »
Cetan
Quote
But again the purpose of this group is to expose frauds, nothing else. If you have issues with someones viewpoints then go express yourself on alt.native or indianz.com where catfights are the norm and stop wasting our time here with your personal vendettas and agendas

That about sums up my own take on this... And it's sad to see people who may have some legitimate concerns damage their own credibilty by getting into a mud fight.

I should explain that Betsy Ashby is only listed in NAFPS because she spreads so many wierd stories about NAFPS this needed to be addressed.

Betsy Ashby seems to enjoy setting up situations where she encourages Native people who are feeling overwhelmed at being repeatedly invaded to attack mixed blood people who are not causeing any substantial problems.  She does this by repeatedly incorrectly identifying these mixed bloods as White and faux Indians and their Native friends as the lap dogs of Whites, and manipulating Native peoples justified anger to target relatively harmless people.

If you look carefully at the reasons Betsy has given for going after "faux Indians ", you will see her excuses are full of contradictions .

Below is a link to the enemies of NAFPS thread where her contradictory behavior is discussed in a number of posts.

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1234.0

Betsy Ashby has a talent for selecting the facts that support the point she wants to make, inventing a few things that aren't fact at all,  and leaving out everything that doesn't support the story she wants people to believe .

What I find most disturbing about Betsy is she rarely or never goes after a "pure blood" White person who is using Native ceremonies or culture.  Betsy's targets are almost always mixed blood people and their NDN friends. 

It seems Betsy feeds on hatred and a sense of power and being connected through causing pain.  Besides being wrong and unfair, I don't think Betsy's target of annihilating the people she wrongly identifies as Faux Indians is achievable , and the only thing she is likely to achieve is creating more bad feelings and resentment.

I also don't like to see innocent people harrasssed, but this often happens in cyberspace. NAFPS doesn't usually list people just because they are online bullies, and people are usually discouraged from trying to get this message board involved in retaliating or trying to sort out who did what to who first.

Generally NAFPS only discusses people who claim some sort of  position of ceremonial leadership or political authority, which involves public trust which they may not be entitled to.

It seems you are just using Betsy's questionable behavior , and the fact that there is some discussion of Betsy's tactics here, as an excuse to bring your fight with Monica over here .

I've been reading a bit over on the alt.native site and I see both of you sometimes expressing yourself in needlessly inflamatory ways that hurt whatever legitmate point you  may have been trying to make.....  And to be honest, I have seen you make some seemingly unfounded accusations which go way beyond bitchy and trivial...

And now you are starting in on David Seals...

Why?

It seemed you were hoping to show that Betsy Ashby's definition of who is a "faux Indian" is flawed, using David Seals as an example of an unenrolled person of some Native descent , who has contributed to the Native community and who Monica considers a friend . That seems fair enough and a reasonable thing to do. However, if that was your intention , why are you now trying to get NAFPS interested in the guy as a "faux Indian"?

As you yourself point out Seals wrote as a Native American author before it became the law people need to be enrolled to make this claim.

Whether or not Seal's is enrolled , he obviously does have very real connections with a Native community, and unless he is writing about a fake version of culture and history, I doubt his work as an author would be considered a fraud or a position of authority he is not entitled to.

It is becoming increasingly obvious that whatever legitimate concerns you may have had in your desire to confront Monica have been lost in your own need to be right, rather than stand up for what is right . 

In my own belief, when there is a problem it's important to first clearly identify what the problem is, and then try to pick targets that actually are central to the problem. I understand when we are offended and frustrated or scared it can be hard to lay aside the smashing and bashing, but I also think that it's important that when the central problems are identified we take the time to make a plan of attack which has a reasonable hope of reducing or eliminating the problem.   

And I agree with Cetan . However you and Monica sort out your differences that is probably something that doesn't belong on this message board.

There is one more thing I want to point out because it is offensive, though I think you are probably honestly unaware of this...

I see where you keep accusing Monica of being a racist . And yes,  Monica is outspoken about her strong dislike of non native people. But accusing her of being racist probably only reinforces her whole point.
 
Would you accuse a Jewish holocaust survior of being racist if they expressed a deep revulsion for Germans? Or would you understand there was probably some deep unhealed wounds behind such statements? ? If you knew a woman who was vocal about her distain for men , who said she did not think men were fully human, and you knew this woman had been repeatedly severly abused by men , from an early age , would you go on and on about what a hateful person she was - accusing her of having a problem, and being a malicious character? Or would you understand there was a lot of unresolved history behind that womans feelings?

If you are actually interested in resolving this, it might be more constructive to ask what it is specifically that non native people do that Monica doesn't like, and how exactly she see the general culture and Non native population supporting this? What does she see as ways to change this? What does she feel she needs to do to protect herself and her people from further abuse ? Even if Monica doesn't always express her feelings in a "nice' way  or target the real problems , she probably has some really good reasons for not feeling friendly.   

And when she does tell you ( and I see where she already has ) maybe you could try listening instead of trying to tell her she is wrong...

When you repeatedly accuse Monica of being racist and malicious, when there is some good reasons and a long history behind her feelings, these attacks on her character probably just reinforce her feelings that non native people don't have the capacity for basic human qualities like empathy and being able to respect things on their own terms. Your expectation that after all the history Native people should still feel friendly , should still be willing to cater to White peoples desires and say it's all OK and they forgive everything, sounds like one more manifestation of that same assumption that everything should revolve around White people and their needs. Yeah I can see where that would piss Monica right off.   

I agree with Cetan. I don't think this fight belongs here.... But it would be good if you could rethink your tactics. Because you do have some legitimate concerns and all you do is discredit both those legitimate concerns and yourself, when you get into unprincipled thoughtless mud slinging. 
 

« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 04:22:21 pm by Moma_porcupine »

Offline Sizzle Flambé

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Re: Sizzle Flambé says Hello
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2009, 04:57:46 pm »
And now you are starting in on David Seals...

Why?

Because this Welsh/Irish white guy barges around alt.native using his phony Big Name Native American Author status like a club against dissenters, and spits at real Indians: for instance greeted the news of Chief Joseph Medicine Crow's receiving the Medal of Freedom with "Uncle tomahawk", and smeared even Anna Mae Aquash's daughter -- see the daughter's stinging rebuke he's complaining about.

In the "Native American Authors Project" he's billed as a "Huron novelist, publisher (Sky and Sage Books), freelance journalist, playwright, and documentary video producer." The movie Powwow Highway was "Based on the 1979 novel by David Seals, a member of the American Indian Movement (AIM) and the Cheyenne Nation,...." Presumably he got money for at least some of those things -- the jobs, not being Huron and/or Cheyenne -- but he flacked them as his own Native American work, Native American insight, Native American art.

And the New York Times review of Powwow Highway was titled "A Cheyenne Mystic Who Transmutes Bitterness".

Bingo. Spread across the world, a Native American author's own view of Native American spirituality. How authentic can you get? People read the book or saw the movie or both, and thought they were getting the real thing, just like... oh, say,... from Carlos Castaneda or Lynn Andrews! And how true that was.

Isn't that spiritual fraud?

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Sizzle Flambé says Hello
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2009, 06:21:58 pm »
Sizzle
Quote
Because this Welsh/Irish white guy

But here you are, engaging in the same behavior you object to in others ,by making the complaint about someones race and enrollment , when the only legitimate concern is their behavior....

Sizzle
Quote
In the "Native American Authors Project" he's billed as a "Huron novelist, publisher (Sky and Sage Books), freelance journalist, playwright, and documentary video producer." The movie Powwow Highway was "Based on the 1979 novel by David Seals, a member of the American Indian Movement (AIM) and the Cheyenne Nation,...."

I did see this, and your right it does seem contradictory. Maybe he descends from both people, or maybe the press got it wrong because the movie Powwow Highway has Cheyenne characters....  If he totally made this up and he has no descent from these peoples , I would I agree it's wrong to misrepresent himself. However , the evidence you are presenting is pretty weak. Even if he did misrepresent himself,  and I agree it would be good to point that out, I'm still not sure these books are him assuming a position of authority and undermining the authority of indigenous peoples ....   As far as I have heard Native people appreciate his books .

Sizzle
Quote
And the New York Times review of Powwow Highway was titled "A Cheyenne Mystic Who Transmutes Bitterness".

Bingo. Spread across the world, a Native American author's own view of Native American spirituality. How authentic can you get? People read the book or saw the movie or both, and thought they were getting the real thing, just like... oh, say,... from Carlos Castaneda or Lynn Andrews! And how true that was.

Isn't that spiritual fraud?

No Sizzle I don't think it is.

That movie review sounds to me like it is reffering to the plot of the movie .

http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=950DE6DA103BF937A15750C0A96F948260

Quote
Powwow Highway (1989)
March 24, 1989
Review/Film; A Cheyenne Mystic Who Transmutes Bitterness
By Janet Maslin
Published: March 24, 1989

LEAD: The scene-stealing figure in ''Powwow Highway,'' a road movie populated by Cheyenne Indian characters in the vicinity of Lame Deer, Mont., is a sweetly mystical giant named Philbert Bono (Gary Farmer). Philbert is notable for his tremendous appetite, his unflappably even keel, and his determination to find some kind of spiritual core in contemporary American Indian life.
You sound like you have never seen it.... It's a good movie. 

Once again it seems you are undermining your own credibility by looking for mud to sling and using whatever looks like it might stick. Same thing Betsy Ashby does. And once again I find that sad, as sometimes some of what you both are saying has some truth in it...
« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 06:28:36 pm by Moma_porcupine »

Offline Sizzle Flambé

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Re: Sizzle Flambé says Hello
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2009, 08:19:14 pm »
Yes, Philbert Bono's just a "mystic" character by David Seals. And Don Juan was just a "mystic" character by Carlos Castaneda -- and Agnes Whistling Elk et alia were just "mystic" characters by Lynn Andrews -- and those were popular too, Moma Porcupine, so where's the harm, really, eh? You have no problem with any of them?

"Assuming a position of authority and undermining the authority of indigenous peoples"?

Well, gosh darn! Calling Chief Joe Medicine Crow "Uncle tomahawk", and tearing down Anna Mae's daughter in order to speak for "the Spirit of Anna Mae" himself, from his platform as a phony Big Name Native American Author -- I would have thought those pretty clear examples of exactly that.

Offline Cetan

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Re: Sizzle Flambé says Hello
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2009, 08:28:00 pm »
the difference is Casteneda and Lynn Andrews tried to claim their characters were real people and their experiences actually happened; Powwow highway is a comedy film and Philbert is not presented as someone who exists in real life, he is only a character in a movie. Go rent the movie and watch it before you start throwing accusations about it - you are only making yourself look more ignorant every time you post

Offline Sizzle Flambé

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Re: Sizzle Flambé says Hello
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2009, 08:51:43 pm »
When "Native American author" David Seals called Chief Joe Medicine Crow "Uncle tomahawk", and tore down Anna Mae Aquash's daughter for having rebuked his lies about the case, he wasn't writing comedy, he was pretending to be real.

And his Big Name Native American Author status dates to that same comedic novel.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 08:56:51 pm by Sizzle Flambé »

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Sizzle Flambé says Hello
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2009, 09:41:58 pm »
Sizzle

I'm not really comfortable bringing the name of a murdered Native rights activist into this.

I agree that if the information Seals is putting out there is fabricated, his using this is extremely disrespectful and offensive. The problem is, as long as the case is unsolved , when there is so many people with reasons to cover up the truth, it is hard to know who may have been decieved. All I know is I don't know enough to decide who's fingers may be pointing to a bit of the truth,  and I think this needs to be investigated from every possible angle. Assuming your link actually goes to a statement made by this womans daughter , I am inclined to believe the daughters probably know what is fact and what is fiction - and from the link you posted they appear to be clearly saying Seals information is fabricated.

http://indigenouswomenforjustice.org/seals.html

Quote
We are disgusted that our mother's name and tragedy continues to be exploited in this way, and in the name of decency we ask this individual and others so inclined to cease and desist. As Anna Mae's next of kin, we hereby inform Seals and those responsible for this, that they do not have permission to use our mother's name.
(con...)
Quote
I continue to be disgusted by Seals and others like him whose morbid fascination with my mother's murder debases all that she lived and died for, and attempts to reduce her suffering, and ours, to the level of a sick hobby or Internet spectator sport.

I agree it is really offensive for anyone to use this womans name to make obviously incorrect or frivoulous accusations to further their own petty personal ambitions. 

But Sizzle,  I see where you are using this as ammunition in your personal on line disputes and as ammunition in your own war to be right.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.native/browse_thread/thread/97d7eeb330e6b9e0#

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.native/browse_thread/thread/9be2c27afbfcaca3#

So assuming you actually have some evidence and you aren't just reducing this womans murder to nothing more than mud to throw, and assuming you really thought the best way to bring up this serious accusation was in the middle of a down and dirty flame war with Monica .... Did you have the families explicit permission to post these accusations?

Or are you doing more or less the same thing you are accusing Seals of doing?

Sorry but I find your choice of weapons really offensive.

Once again this looks like nothing more than mud slinging only serves to discredit whatever legitimate concerns and causes you claim to represent...

Offline Sizzle Flambé

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Re: Sizzle Flambé says Hello
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2009, 09:58:13 pm »
I'm not really comfortable bringing the name of a murdered Native rights activist into this.

Look again. David Seals and his "Anna Mae Aquash Offense Committee" brought up her name.

Quote
I agree that if the information Seals is putting out there is fabricated, his using this is extremely disrespectful and offensive.

That's how her family feel about it.

Quote
/.../ Assuming your link actually goes to a statement made by this womans daughter, I am inclined to believe the daughters probably know what is fact and what is fiction - and from the link you posted they appear to be clearly saying Seals information is fabricated.

http://indigenouswomenforjustice.org/seals.html

Quote
We are disgusted that our mother's name and tragedy continues to be exploited in this way, and in the name of decency we ask this individual and others so inclined to cease and desist. As Anna Mae's next of kin, we hereby inform Seals and those responsible for this, that they do not have permission to use our mother's name.
(con...)
Quote
I continue to be disgusted by Seals and others like him whose morbid fascination with my mother's murder debases all that she lived and died for, and attempts to reduce her suffering, and ours, to the level of a sick hobby or Internet spectator sport.

I agree it is really offensive for anyone to use this womans name to make obviously incorrect or frivoulous accusations to further their own petty personal ambitions. 

/.../

Did you have the families explicit permission to post these accusations?

That website, <http://indigenouswomenforjustice.org/seals.html>?

They posted it; I only linked to it.

My own text? That's my own responsibility. I've never claimed any authority.

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Sizzle Flambé says Hello
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2009, 12:23:05 am »
Sizzle
Quote
That website, <http://indigenouswomenforjustice.org/seals.html>?

They posted it; I only linked to it.

My own text? That's my own responsibility. I've never claimed any authority.

Interesting, you edited out some of my comments in what you quoted... The ones which were obviously directed at the accusations YOU made in your posts at alt.native which I included links to. I guess with those comments edited out it isn't clear what I was reffering to.... And your accusations are so serious I'm not comfortable to quote you...

If you honestly weren't sure what I was reffering to I have to wonder why you removed all the comments which made this clear?

You're right you are responsible for those accusations... 

Sizzle
Quote
I've never claimed any authority.

Um yeah... well . Either you believe what you write is true or you don't....

People intentionally lie because they are trying to trick people into doing something they would not chose if they had all the facts. When people lie they try and displace the authority of the truth, reality and peoples common sense.   

So either you honestly believe your allegations in the below link are likely to be true, and you are responsible for bringing this to the attention of the public in a disrespectful way that undermines the seriousness of these accusations, or you know this is false and you are trying to unfairly undermine whatever credibility and authority Monica may be rightly entitled to, by using lies and innuendos.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.native/browse_thread/thread/3fd97b815d175f93#

Sorry but I am one of those people who believes that no matter which side we are on, justice is something that happens when we do our best to tell the truth, and nothing but the truth , and that without truth there is no real justice.

It looks to me like you are part of the problem .

(edited because I posted the same link as before which wasn't  the link I intended to post here)
« Last Edit: August 19, 2009, 01:03:46 am by Moma_porcupine »

Offline Rattlebone

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Re: Sizzle Flambé says Hello
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2009, 12:26:56 am »
Cetan
Quote
But again the purpose of this group is to expose frauds, nothing else. If you have issues with someones viewpoints then go express yourself on alt.native or indianz.com where catfights are the norm and stop wasting our time here with your personal vendettas and agendas

That about sums up my own take on this... And it's sad to see people who may have some legitimate concerns damage their own credibilty by getting into a mud fight.

I should explain that Betsy Ashby is only listed in NAFPS because she spreads so many wierd stories about NAFPS this needed to be addressed.

Betsy Ashby seems to enjoy setting up situations where she encourages Native people who are feeling overwhelmed at being repeatedly invaded to attack mixed blood people who are not causeing any substantial problems.  She does this by repeatedly incorrectly identifying these mixed bloods as White and faux Indians and their Native friends as the lap dogs of Whites, and manipulating Native peoples justified anger to target relatively harmless people.

If you look carefully at the reasons Betsy has given for going after "faux Indians ", you will see her excuses are full of contradictions .

Below is a link to the enemies of NAFPS thread where her contradictory behavior is discussed in a number of posts.

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1234.0

Betsy Ashby has a talent for selecting the facts that support the point she wants to make, inventing a few things that aren't fact at all,  and leaving out everything that doesn't support the story she wants people to believe .

What I find most disturbing about Betsy is she rarely or never goes after a "pure blood" White person who is using Native ceremonies or culture.  Betsy's targets are almost always mixed blood people and their NDN friends. 

It seems Betsy feeds on hatred and a sense of power and being connected through causing pain.  Besides being wrong and unfair, I don't think Betsy's target of annihilating the people she wrongly identifies as Faux Indians is achievable , and the only thing she is likely to achieve is creating more bad feelings and resentment.

I also don't like to see innocent people harrasssed, but this often happens in cyberspace. NAFPS doesn't usually list people just because they are online bullies, and people are usually discouraged from trying to get this message board involved in retaliating or trying to sort out who did what to who first.

Generally NAFPS only discusses people who claim some sort of  position of ceremonial leadership or political authority, which involves public trust which they may not be entitled to.

It seems you are just using Betsy's questionable behavior , and the fact that there is some discussion of Betsy's tactics here, as an excuse to bring your fight with Monica over here .

I've been reading a bit over on the alt.native site and I see both of you sometimes expressing yourself in needlessly inflamatory ways that hurt whatever legitmate point you  may have been trying to make.....  And to be honest, I have seen you make some seemingly unfounded accusations which go way beyond bitchy and trivial...

And now you are starting in on David Seals...

Why?

It seemed you were hoping to show that Betsy Ashby's definition of who is a "faux Indian" is flawed, using David Seals as an example of an unenrolled person of some Native descent , who has contributed to the Native community and who Monica considers a friend . That seems fair enough and a reasonable thing to do. However, if that was your intention , why are you now trying to get NAFPS interested in the guy as a "faux Indian"?


 



 I agree with you completely on this.

 When I first joined Indianz.com is when I first encountered her. It was at that time I noticed her saying things that were her attempting to say who was or was not native. Her viewpoints on this were very rigid, and at times very stereotypical. Nearly all of the time, her view points were very contrary to what I know to be true of Indian country in regards to how the Indian community recognizes a person to be Indian or not.

  As you said, much of this seemed to come as attacks on mixed people who were doing no harm. When I began to challenge what she was saying, she began to automatically attack me and said I was a fraud. I seen her engage in this behavior time and time again.

 She portrayed herself as a fraud hunter, but as you pointed out, she only seemed to target mixed bloods for this reason or that whom were doing nothing but acknowledging they had some native ancestry. When it came to people who were white and nothing but white by blood, she had nothing to say or would support them. This was the case in a person that was pointed out to be a fraud on this board. Betsy defended her very staunchly, and seemed to be very angry when I pointed out that this white person she was defending was an exploiter.

 Very nice post on your part MP...I agree with everything you said here.