General > Frauds

Soquili Band of First Nation Cherokees

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educatedindian:
We've seen this pattern happen more than a few times, with Kinney, with Hobgood, etc. We simply ask questions, and that person in question apparently monitors the internet looking to jump on and try to shut up any critics, often with ridiculous heavy handed legal threats with no basis. That's exactly what "Littlefox" seems to be doing.

So, since I'm sure he's monitoring the board, holding his breath to see if we fold from his threats or not, I'll save him the suspense and tell him the same thing I've told others:

NO, we will not stop talking about, looking into, or critiquing what you, your group, or anyone involved with you are doing. Not until we are satisified one way or the other.

NO, your flimsy threats of legal action will not have any effect at all. We know them to be baseless, and we also know they generally come from frauds who DO have something to hide and know they are doing wrong. We get empty legal threats all the time, and they have never stopped us yet.

Let me also answer him, point by point:

"(Note: this is a direst quote, misspelled words and all)"

If the best you can do is jump on my typos, you might want to learn how to spell "direct" first.

"Though I don't feel I owe you the slightest explanation for anything we do at Soquili Center,"

Yet you felt the need for a long note, posted on your site within a single day of us merely asking a question. That tells everyone you prowl the web looking to shut down any criticism of you.
 
"we have been in existence for over 10 years--funny that you just found us."

We've only been around for six years, and as possible frauds go, you're small potatos compared to the worser ones like H Reagan or Lynn Andrews. Nowhere have we said a thing about your business, only about your alleged band, which is not ten years old. None of our Cherokee members have heard of it before.

"My clinic and equine consulting business is, by the way, Soquili Equine Services, LLC. If you think there is something "fraudulent" about that"

Never said it was. Learn to read what we actually say, instead of making things up. All your paranoia does is get people wondering about your business when they had not before.

"I cannot for the life of me fathom how it is you determined that we do, teach, or deal in "horse ceremony".

Never said that. Once again, learn to read before jumping to false conclusions.
I said a website that does alleged horse ceremonies seems to also be hosting for you.

"no Traditional has a right to speak for Traditions he was not taught."

Once again, learn to read what we actually say.

"When we do ceremony here, it is Woodland Culture, either Southeastern or Northeastern M'ikqmaq (correct spelling)"

Oh brother. You argue against Pan Indianism (which we don't even believe in ourselves) and then turn right around and claim there's a generic "woodland culture" for the whole region?

"I have real problem"

You mean, besides with your own typos?

"with any Individual or Group that is pro-acculturation/anti-tradition and therefore supports the continued disenfranchisement of their own People."

Once again, learn to read.
Many members here are unenrolled.

"there are thousands of people, Indian People, who's ancestors were kidnapped by either the Church or the Government, or, in the Southeast, were victimized by Reconstruction's Carpet-Baggers into changing Races to keep from being killed."

Littlefox really doesn't know the most basic history, and that makes me more doutful than ever he should be teaching what he claims is NDN "woodlands" tradition.
That's not NDN tradition he's talking, that's Neo Confederate nonsense, the kind of false history invented by white supremacists or people who romanticize the bad "old South" and demonize "yankees". I doubt Littlefox is white supremacist, but he's certainly fallen for some of the lies of the Neo Confederates.

"let me say a word or two about Freedom of Speech on the internet,"

Appanrely it exists only for Littlefox, but not for anyone who'd criticize him.

"and Fraud. Fraud is a Criminal Offense. What that means is, that if you make accusations that are unfounded, or cast suspicion on others that adversely affects their Lives, Businesses, or Rights, then you, yourself, are guilty of a Crime"

Littlefox really needs to learn to read.
All we've done is put him under Research Needed, but his defensiveness really makes you wonder.

"and a Civil Rights violation."

He also needs to learn basic law.
If he's actually NDN (as he claims) then how could other NDNs criticizing him be a civil rights violation?

"My suggestion to you and yours at this point is to lay off before I hold you responsible for your words." I took the trouble of screen shooting your thread---just so you know that even the "investigator" can be investigated. You have nothing to gain here."

Your empty legal threats will not deter us. They only accomplish two things:
Amuse people who, unlike you, actually know the law.
And make many of us wonder just what you are doing that may not be right.

As I said before, at this point we're just wondering about your alleged band. Do you have the support of actual elders from the actual Cherokee bands? I'm guessing no, or you would've put that on display.

Mr. Littlefox, let me also invite you over here to explain further if you wish. Which you could've done before, after all.

Moma_porcupine:
Joseph , I think I have seen the same thing you have , when it comes to a flexible expectation of some sort of payment when it comes to doctoring or personal assistance . ?

In the non Cherokee community , I have never seen any charge for Spiritual teachings even if it is "outsiders " being taught . But as I said , I know almost nothing about Cherokee traditions and I respect there may be some differences .

Are you saying that if a person is Cherokee , and has real Cherokee teachings , it would be OK , in the eyes of the Cherokee community , to expect some form of payment , for these teachings ?

Because AIM was mentioned in this article , as starting the objections to charging for teachings ,I am assuming these "teachings" have to do with Spiritual traditions and not how to care for horses ,or how a relationship with a horse can help with psychological healing .

I cannot imagine anyone would feel there is a problem charging for teaching people how to work with horses , and I have no questions about this part of this organization .

Sorry if this sounds a bit dense .... The many different ways of doing things can be confusing . I have heard so many times it is not OK to charge for traditional teachings .... ?

If charging for Spiritual / cultural teachings , is Ok in the Cherokee tradition , I would not want to be rude about this , if I someday cross paths some Cherokee people charging for Spiritual teachings . ? If my questions here have been rude , I apologize .

weheli:
There is no band of soquili Band of Cherokee. Just another exploiter trying to mack a buck once again Cherokee this or that.

I am Cherokee and agree with Joesph. The medicine man, never asks for anything but tradition is the giving of tobacco and out of respect, which he has earned in all the traditional ways, one gives from his heart other gifts. He NEVER asks for anything.

No ceromonies are NEVER sold either!! So if you are REALLY Cherokee and practicing true traditions, what you are doing is wrong, if you are Cherokee you would know this. How about telling us your tribal enrollment #?? Is it Eastern, Western Cherokee or other ndn tribes also?
                                                                Wado  Weheli

educatedindian:
You're right, there doesn't even seem to be any "band". It's basically him, one other guy, and a sec'y. They refer to themselves as an ecclesiastical society and weren't even around until February of this year, according to their own Documentation.
http://www.soquilicenter.org/cdoc.htm
"We the Undersigned...establish a Religious Society...on this the 9 day of Feb, 2006
Edwin L Copeland, DD, Founding Elder
Deorah T Natola, Acting Sec'y
Michael B Runningwolf, DD, Founding Elder"

I don't know if I'd say Edwin Copeland ("Ed Littlefox") is an exploiter. He claims no ceremonies are being sold, but defends overandover selling teachings. Part of the problem is his Pan Indianism. For a supposed teacher of lost Cherokees, he's mostly selling Lakota beliefs.

"This reflection of the Wheel has elements of the Horse Dance Vision, given to the Lakota Holy Man, Black-Elk. Briefly, the Horse Dance Vision was of the Future, when 4 Horses of each of the Color-symbols of the Lakota Medicine Wheel, (Yellow, Red, Black, and White) came out of the 4 Great Directions and Danced together beneath The Sacred Tree (of the Sun Dance). the one I will use as an example is the most commonly seen representation of the Lakota Wheel....The North Point of the Wheel is White, and the color stands for Wisdom and Purity, as well as Winter, the White Man, the White Buffalo Calf Woman....The West Point is Black, and represents....The Thunder-Beings, whether they are the Wakinyan of the Lakota, or the Tililoqui (Thunderors) of my own People."
"In the Center of the Wheel is Great Mystery; Wakan Tanka and Tunkashila to the Lakota, and Adanvdo to the Cherokee."

And this gets pretty contradictory.
 "The Sweat Lodge is our oldest Ceremony. Oral Tradition has it that it stems from an act done by First Mother for one of her Sons, (First Twins) who had died. In her Prayers, Great Mystery took pity on her sorrow, and Gave her the Sweat Lodge Ceremony, and told her that if she did the Ceremony, her Son's life would be restored. You will hear this said when asking about the Lodge Ceremony; someone will tell you that it "brings Life".
 ?  ?  In recent years, Lodges have sprung up all over the country like mushrooms after a Spring Rain. The Ceremony is the most popular among non-Indian People as an "Indian thing to do", and has created a group of people Native insiders refer to as Ceremony Freaks and Crystal Twinkies. At the point of this writing, a great controversy has risen out of this fact regards the abuse of these ceremonies. I agree with the Native side of this question, but only to an extent....I want to demark a difference. There are also a few of us who do Workshops for others, and we charge fees for that. There is a difference between Ceremonial Duties and Education. Workshops are for Education and the difference is on of ? Apples and Oranges. Expect to pay for an Education, but not for Ceremony.
About the Lodge....
      My own People, the Cherokee, have a form of Lodge known as Asi, and it is used strictly to facilitate Healing and for no other purpose. Around the year 1979, the Inipi Rite was Given to my People by Lakota Holy Man, Frank Fools-Crow, so that we would have a Purification Lodge. That's OK, but we already had a Way of Purification known as Going-to-Water; its just a little different. For myself in my own Path, I learned the Way of the Inipi Rite from Lakota Medicine Man, Henry Crow-Dog"

plz:
Just finished reading through his 'Growing up Native' stuff from which you quoted, Al.  I didn't see very much in the way of his growing up.  But more in line with the same kind of 'teaching' that the other Ed (McGaa) does/says etc.  Even to refering to Black Elks vision and Fools Crow.  It's almost like he read McGaa's book/s, tossed in some of his own ideas and poof....... a teaching of ndn spriiruality.

Or, I could be behind by two and someone else started this same line of thought and the two Eds just mimicked the thoughts.

pattyz

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