NAFPS Forum

General => Welcome & News => Topic started by: educatedindian on July 03, 2007, 02:14:05 pm

Title: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: educatedindian on July 03, 2007, 02:14:05 pm
This time he's hooked up with our ex member who left in a fit, Robin, whom we helped out for years against the CKY.

Where to begin with Lekay's mistakes?

He lists Robin as "a respected Native American elder." Not even naming her people, which is pretty hypocritical.

Robin is not even that old. She's in her forties if I remember right. Lekay is getting pretty desperate.

Robin seemed to be a nice enough person up to the time she imagined herself to be a "spiritual advisor" to a white exploiter named Scarlet Kinney. You remember her, the accident victim who imagined being an accident victim made her able to channel Standing Bear.

She and Lekay confused Annika with Frederica throughout the whole article. Did post a nice pic of Annika, even if they got everything else wrong.

Seems he's so driven by anger and paranoia that he can't even be bothered to check the most basic facts. Our site is listed as "plasticshamans.org."

Oh, and Barnaby, it's pretty funny when he claims you are a "hippy." Knowing your low opinion of hippies, that's yet another pretty amusing mistake.

If this is the best he can do, we sure don't have anything to worry about.
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: frederica on July 03, 2007, 04:34:03 pm
Well, at least that is a respectable person to be confused with. He even posted Martina Looking Horse's editorial, that was recently posted on the internet. Saw it earlier on another list. The problem is he forgot to include himself from meddliing in others affairs, especially with LBW. http://www.heyokamagazine.com/HEYOKA.8.Robin.htm frederica
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: educatedindian on July 03, 2007, 05:28:54 pm
Just noticed something very strange Robin said.

"I was selling my personal belongings to pay for the attorney fees in the adoption, and if he liked to go on ebay and see what I was selling, had sold and perhaps maybe he would buy something that would be making a positive contribution to a child that needed a good stable home. In the adoption process you must go through several background checks, criminal, physical, and psychological. My husband and I both passed and in fact it was recommended to the judge through these background checks that the process waive the 6 month grace period. If I was a unstable person or a person of questionable character I would not have been granted the adoption. That in itself shows the untruths that Al Carroll has said about me."


This is the first I've ever heard of her selling anything on Ebay. She seems to be getting mad agt me for not buying her items though. Obviously confusing me with someone else.

And then the long ramble where she's trying to convince people about her mental stability. Strange.

I'm not even sure what she's accusing me of.

The accusations of her being unstable came from Edwards and the CKY people, and we (me especially) spent a lot of time DEFENDING her against the charges.
 
"I have not had time to doing nothing more than care for children. No where have I sold out traditions, nor made public appearances in regards to ceremonies or teachings of traditions."

No one ever accused her of selling ceremony. She did work with someone who did, old Scarlet. And Scarlet then turned around and worked with her old enemy Jerry Edwards, which strangely didn't seem to bother her.


"Al Carroll posted under a unknown name,  "That I had sold out to white exploiters" was traced to the Jordan School District in San Antonio, Texas."


There is no Jordan School District in San Antonio. There is a small town called Jourdanton about 50 miles away. I did some searching, and the only town in Texas called Jordan is maybe 200 miles away, way over on the other side of Austin.

And only employees or students can post from a school district's computers. I suppose it's asking too much of either Robin or Lekay that they have the common sense to check and find out I've never worked at either Jordan OR Jourdanton.
 
Is Robin is getting infected with Lekay's paranoia? Why is she tracking down emails of anyone who dares criticize her? 

I suppose it's only a matter of time before she and Lekay accuse us of being under Bush and Cheney's control too. Or FBI agents. or RCMP agents.
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: Barnaby_McEwan on July 03, 2007, 06:08:52 pm
Oh, and Barnaby, it's pretty funny when he claims you are a "hippy."

Heh. "Barnaby Mcewan hippy". I can almost hear him spluttering.

Quote
If this is the best he can do, we sure don't have anything to worry about.

I like the links to Loons We Have Known at the bottom of the article.

(http://anwo.com/store/media/loon_crossing.JPG)
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: Moma_porcupine on July 03, 2007, 10:03:25 pm
Gee I guess Lekay forgot to read the posting at the top of " Research needed ", that is titled ," People who post in this forum ."  Looks like he found one of em   ... LOL 

http://newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=430.msg2120#msg2120  (http://newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=430.msg2120#msg2120)   

Re: Two Would Be Cherokee Tribes in Kentucky
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2005, 11:41:24 AM »
Raven(Robin)W- Lawson

Quote
As a former member of the CKY ( actually a time period of 72 hrs). My family and I were subjected to explotations, by posting on the beginners list with photos of all of us from my yahoo 360. I invited two members to view it, and then the following day it was posted on their site. If this is not a means of explotation then I must be a total idiot.

I wonder how Annika feels about having her picture posted in Lekay's magazine ? I remember how upset Raven was when someone
in the CKY showed a picture she had posted of herself online and how unsafe she said that made her feel . So why is Raven supporting John lekay doing this to Annika ( who has never done anything except be REALLY REALLY NICE ) . Did anyone ask Annika's permission ?

Raven
Quote
So I posted emails between he and I showing what he was saying was not the truth, that he was compromising my case by changing his story of what the truth was. He deleted many of them shortly after I posted them.

I guess people can claim whatever they want but I don't remember any emails being posted showing Al was not telling the truth or Al deleting anything except one comment from his own post , about Ravens having been a member of the CKY , because Raven felt this was inacurate . The responses to the posts deleted by Raven and her friend Weheli is all still here , and give a pretty good idea of what was being discussed when Raven stopped posting in this forum;

http://newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=806.0 (http://newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=806.0)

Raven
Quote
It was also at that time he was attacking Scarlet Kinney. She and I had come to an understanding of each other through mutual respect. I had read her site and in communication understood what she was trying to accomplish and that perhaps I could share some stories with her and some personal insight

Yes that was discussed in the thread above . About the same time Raven decided to go work for Scarlet , Scarlet began advertising Sweat Lodge ceremonies for $250 . How a person with any real principals could be a member of NAFPS and repeatedly post for eight months ,critizing people for selling ceremonies ,and then turn around and decide to work for someone doing this same thing ?

http://newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=812.msg4193#msg4193 (http://newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=812.msg4193#msg4193)

Raven
Quote
Which is leading me to believe the Moma Porcupine is actually a man pretending to be a woman, or perhaps a man that is like a woman.   

Why don't they believe I'm really a Porcupine ? Lekay believes what everyone else tells him ...

Raven does have a good point . Maybe I am really a fat Russian man who wore out his " Dancing with wolves " vidieo , or a pimply teenager in my Mom's basement . Or a strong woman .   ;)  In cyberspace anything is possible. I have I never said anything about my background in my public posts one way or another .

My deep dark motive is simply that I care and i see people on all sides getting hurt and I believe the thought provoking disscusions happening  here can help change that . I don't believe people who are honest and truely have integrity would feel attacked by that .

And John Lekay telling us not to meddle in Lakota affairs . I thought we were interfering with the non Lakota people who are
interfering in Lakota affairs ? Is John Lekay imagining he is a Lakota now  ? Wouldn't be suprised .

He sure is making himself look silly ... But I guess he is too silly to even notice ..
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: frederica on July 04, 2007, 02:11:20 am
Moma, you could be a Mono Migration Analyzer (MOMA). It's simply trash This type of information is twisted, little fact, mostly fiction. The puppets yield to the puppet master.  They have had their 15 minutes of fame. forget who said that. frederica
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: coffee_drinker on July 04, 2007, 02:44:25 am
Too Frickin Funny!!!!!!!
Can I say that ???????? Hope so...........
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: educatedindian on July 04, 2007, 03:01:30 pm
I notice that Lekay has gone from claiming we are all a bunch of Native racists (who even want a race war!) to saying none of us  are Native. He's changing his story faster than changing socks. By my count the Europeans in here number, what, three people out of over three hundred? And is Lekay so blind he doesn't even know where HE is from, and how hypocritical he's being? Yes and yes.

The story is getting even weirder.

http://davidyeagley.blogspot.com/2007/07/strange-bedfellows-new-age-exploiter.html#links

Strange Bedfellows: New Age Exploiter Promoter John Lekay and White Supremacist Supporter John Martin

Winston Churchill once said "There's nothing more exhilirating than getting sniped at to no effect." I think he meant it's always amusing to watch your self proclaimed enemies try and fail repeatedly to get at you. That is how I'm feeling more and more watching John Lekay constanty fall flat on his face.

Two articles and by my count more than fifty emails to nearly a dozen people, and the only person he can get to believe him is an open racist and white supremacist supporter facing criminal charges, John Martin. All that he's accomplished is convince more people that he is an obsessed and bizarre character who doesn't have any idea of what he's talking about.

Nearly all of them, you see, have in turn contacted me. The kinder comments people have sent me include things like, "Lekay needs help, professional help." "What's his problem?" "I will pray for the man because I feel sorry for him." The less kind comments, well, I'm starting to actually feel sorry for him too, so I won't publish them, especially the ones filled with profanity for Lekay.

This latest effort of his, of course, comes after more than forty posts on NAFPS where he just managed to convince everyone there that he's extremely longwinded, paranoid, and more than a little racist, not to mention a defender of New Age exploiters and other fringe characters out to do damage in Indian Country.

I don't think I've ever seen someone become so childish, petty, and paranoid over losing an argument online as Lekay. Most people would simply realize they aren't wanted and move on.

Lekay and John Martin apparently are now working together. So much for ideological principle. On the one side:

Lekay, a promoter of New Age fabricators about Native traditions such Suzanne Dupree and Mala Pope, an English dilettante living in New York who imagines himself an expert in Native peoples and eco activist, promoter of conspiracy theorists who do enormous damage to Native causes like Kevin Arnett.

John Martin, who is white supremacist David Yeagley's biggest supporter, risking prison to deliver a series of more than a dozen death threats to myself, Brent Michael Davids, and others.

John Martin even recently sent his brother Joe Martin over to NAFPS under the screen name "Pit Bull" to defend Jimmy La Vallee, who makes his career posing as a therapist. Unlike John, Joe actually presented himself calmly and politely, though his defense of La Vallee fell flat.

How do two people on the opposite sides of the political spectrum justify working with someone they would both normally despise, denounce, and work against? How did Hitler and Stalin justify working together? The extreme left, like Lekay, and the extreme right, like Martin and Yeagley, are a lot more alike than they want to admit.

I will make the prediction right now: Lekay is so driven by his petty obsession, losing arguments repeatedly to myself and other NAFPS, that he will very soon interview Yeagley on his online "magazine."

Lekay once had a tiny bit of credibility for giving interviews that brought attention to Native environmental causes. That credibility began vanishing when he promoted dubious characters on the fringe like Suzanne Dupree and spiritual exploiters like Mala Pope.

Any shred of respect any Natives ever had for him is disappearing faster and faster when Lekay lines up with people like John Martin and his beloved leader David Yeagley, one of the most despised and mocked persons in all of Indian Country.
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: Skully on July 05, 2007, 06:49:14 am
Sounds like he's paddlin' a lekay canoe to me...   :'(
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: Barnaby_McEwan on July 05, 2007, 01:16:02 pm
*groan*
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: Freija on July 05, 2007, 02:30:22 pm
I wonder how Annika feels about having her picture posted in Lekay's magazine ? I remember how upset Raven was when someone
in the CKY showed a picture she had posted of herself online and how unsafe she said that made her feel . So why is Raven supporting John lekay doing this to Annika ( who has never done anything except be REALLY REALLY NICE ) . Did anyone ask Annika's permission ?


Aaah, thank you very much for your kind words, Moma_porcupine.  :)

I came back from South Dakota today, have met up with lots of wonderful people, got a chance to inform the Tribal Council  about the film and have talked to spiritual leaders about the ongoing exploitation in Europe. It has been an honour to meet so many respected tribal members and we have shared ideas on how to proceed with the film and what can be done to stop the exploitation of Lakota ceremonies.

And then I came back and checked in here....and.....wow!  :o   No, Moma, I have not been asked for permission.  And I don´t have a clue why I am up there with a photo since I wasn´t even involved in that discussion. And I have not written any private email to Robin, they have confused me with someone else, just like Al said.

I have been flooded with emails from John Le Kay. I´ve been nothing but respectful to him and I am not quite sure what he wants from me. I have asked....but still I don´t know. I guess he wants me to stop the film  which I have told him won´t happen. So I would rather see he took my photo down as I am not involved in that issue what so ever - but I guess he won´t and if so, I am not wasting any energy on it. I have more important things to do...... ;)  :)
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: frederica on July 05, 2007, 04:08:47 pm
I saw today he is posting to other lists requesting interviews from anyone the "feels" mistreated by NAFPS. He is having someone do it for him, and their replies for interview forwarded to him or Jimmy LaVallee at their e-mail address. frederica
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: educatedindian on July 05, 2007, 05:26:17 pm
Look for more of the same loons to repeat themselves. Look for pouting from Scarlet and ranting from Weylin. And like I said before, expect an interview with Yeagley.

Each one that he interviews just drags Lekay's credibility further down.

Most of the people Lekay has contacted have told me he "offered to get them help". In other words, he seems to be soliciting clients for La Vallee's business. I wonder if Lekay has gone through "treatment" by La Vallee himself?

An idea occurred me: a thread called We Take Pride In Those Who Call Us Their "Enemy".

That, plus a thread called NAFPS Is Proud to Work With Or Be Used As a Resource By...listing all the groups we've worked with and all the sites listing us as a good source. Maybe as stickies, or better yet, a section on the opening page newagefraud.org, right by Who We Are.
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: Moma_porcupine on July 05, 2007, 06:17:00 pm
We should probably thank Lekay for the publicity.  ;D

I would think most people who read through a few pages here , will see reasonable people wanting to protect the uninformed public , Native traditions and identity from abuse . It doesn't seem likely many people will see the efforts here to protect people from exploitation and misinformation ,  as us being the bad guys . Except by those who are personally invested in maintaing a fraud or exploiter. 

I did wonder why Lekay would be so desperate to discredit us ( assuming he isn't completely irrational ) and wondered if it might have to do with trying to discredit the movie Freija mentioned.  I imagine a movie  that will educate people about the damage being done by abuse of traditional ways , will be quite threateneing to some people .
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: frederica on July 05, 2007, 06:46:22 pm
What Al says sounds good, I posted that as I just wanted the person who posted on the other list to see it. I get bored with passive-aggressive behavior. lol, so decided to do some of my own. All you do is have to think about the LaVallee one. frederica
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: cherokeesissy on July 09, 2007, 03:45:15 pm
Osiyo, been a while since I've been here. I've been having trouble getting signed in. Anyway, I read this post first thing and decided that I needed to send this over. I think that it came to me about a week ago, and to my yahoo mail, which I never use. Thought you all might like to see it. I also have more to let you all know about and I'll do those updates once I've gone over some more of the posts on Jerry Edwards.
Ann

--- In nafps@yahoogroups.com, "Ann" [email address deleted, just for fairness's sake] wrote:
>
> It's been a while since I'd been online and I'm trying,
effortlessly,
> to sign in to the NAFP's Offical Site. Can't get in for trying.
Could
> someone please help me out with this. I have no idea what to do.
Thanks
> Ann

Hi Ann,
here is a link to thier site. A lot is going on right now. My sister
Robin who is Cherokee is under attack by the NAFPS. Al Carroll is
taking it upon himself along with some others on the site to demean
and attack TRUE Native Americans and has been deleting and adding
words to make them appears as he wanys them to. The link I am sending
you is to the post on my Sister but it will get you into the site,
just click on home at the top.
http://newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1232.msg7218#new

My personal email is [deleted at request]. Please send me messages there
as I don't always check this site. Have you got any more news on
Edwards who is a FRAUD?

                           Joyce
PS I think I just sent this to be posted and that was not my
intentions. I must somehow get them not to post this personal email.

[Al's note: Email address removed at Joyce's request, nothing else altered.]
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: educatedindian on July 09, 2007, 06:26:57 pm
Glad to see you here, Ann.

Kind of ironic that the two of them endlessly repeat that they were "attacked" in NAFPS when we all had to walk on eggshells around them and did our best to help them for years. Generally people request information and we help them. But in their case, they demanded that we *do something* repeatedly, anything, everything, to get the word out on the CKY.

Which we were glad to do. We respond to requests for help. But it was unusual to see someone demanding that repeatedly for over two years. Given all that Edwards and the CKY did to Robin, the threats she described, rumor spreading, and so on, it's understandable.

I may as well make this public, for Robin and Joyce and all others to see:

I haven't had any contact with Robin after she left to go and try set herself up as the "spiritual advisor" to an obvious fraud, Scarlet McKinney. Best I can tell, that was only a few emails between them anyway, as much as McKinney tried to claim otherwise. It was more of a case of Robin not realizing how she was being used.

I have kept confidential all of information in the dozens of emails Robin sent me, as she repeatedly asked me to, and I will continue to.

As I pointed out in the other thread, the person that supposedly "attacked" Robin for selling items on ebay could not have been me, since she herself admitted to tracking the emails to a school district clear on the other side of Texas. It might do her some good to look at a map before making herself look silly, or even call up the district to find up I've never worked there. 

I think it's important that we don't let Robin's actions lately make us forget the good work she did in helping to expose the CKY. For that she needs to be praised. For one foolish interview with a racist promoter of exploiters, a persecution complex, and a few comments here and there, I can easily forgive.
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: Moma_porcupine on July 10, 2007, 06:16:45 pm
I feel somewhat responsible for some of these bad feelings so i guess I should make some attempt to repair any damage I may have created .

First , on the issue of Robin or Weheli's posts being edited by anyone other than themselves .

When someones post is edited , at the bottom it does say it was edited , and who edited it .

Before I joined NAFPS , seeing the posts of some people edited,  did make me mistrustful that the moderators might be unfairly tampering with peoples posts , and I watched for a long time to see what it was that was being edited out , and why .

I guess if other people are mistrustful they will need to do the same , and see for themselves , but what i saw was what was being edited out , was people using too many words and side issues to obscure and avoid the questions , ad hominum attacks , name calling and threats . 

As I said before , I did see Al edit his own post in the last thread Raven posted in as a regular contributer to NAFPS ( link to this thread  ,is in my post above ) What I remeber was Robin was objecting to a comment Al made and Al edited it out  . The comment was something about Star deserving as much support as Robin and Al reminding Robin she was also an ex member of the CKY group . Robin objected saying she had joined knowing the group was unhealthy because she wanted to help people in that group get out. Maybe it would have been better if Al had apologized in another post,  and left his original comment , as I seem to recall Raven / Robin's objections didn't make much sense after Al edited out that comment . It really didn't seem a big deal to me , but then I wasn't on the other end of this conversation and apperently it was a big deal to Raven and Weheli . Shortly after that ,Weheli and Robin appear to have deleted all their posts from that thread . There was nothing in these deleted posts that I saw , that anyone else would want to delete ,and they are the only other people besides the moderators that could do this , and Al says they didn't ..

It seems this whole situation was really tramatic for Robin and I apologize if I have not been sufficently sympathetic to her feelings of being unsafe. 

Robin being interviewed by John Lekay.
Quote
When it comes to confronting Al when he is wrong, there is no objectivity there within the group. It is a matter if you read the many posts he makes, you will not find any in the group that will voice or posts anything that might be in disagreement with what he says.

And if one does, the pattern is Moma Porcupine will come in and attack the person, then Al may come in with passiveness,.
Quote
I did feel some undertone attacks with Moma Porcupine at times, which I found somewhat puzzling. Because most of the time it was based on unimportant and unrelated issues that were borderline paranoia. Other than Al Carroll and Moma Porcupine there were no others that attacked me, yet no one made any attempts to defend me either.

What Robin said above about me ( NOT AL ) pushing people posting on this board , to clarify themselves , sounds correct .

I can see where both Raven and Weheli may have felt attacked by this , but , I'm thinking maybe Robin/ Raven/Raven_Walkingstick/ Kwakwen and Joyce/Walkingsoft/Weheli are confusing things I have said with what Al/educatedindian said ?

I won't apoplgize for that ,because I still feel all my concerns are valid , but even though I don't always agree with these two , I have appreciated many of the things Raven and Weheli have shared. I have disagreed with everybody posting in this forum from time to time including Al , and when I do I say so , and don't expect anyone to defend me . 

Nobody defended me on the subject of selling sweetgrass , even though I can show there are many traditional people who share my feelings  . Because I support these traditions as I learned them  , I have been called stupid and many other negative things have been implied about me . No one came to defend me , but SO WHAT. It was a good conversation and I'm glad we had it , even if I did feel repeatedly personally attacked for hanging on to  what I was taught by Elders . I am not going to play the victim , and I still admire many things about the people who disagreed with me. I'm not going around telling everyone how i was unfairly attacked in NAFPS . People have a right to their own understanding, priorities , concerns , and even blind spots  . We all have them sometimes .  And I think talking about our different points of veiw is a good thing . People even have a right to be rude sometimes . We all are .

It's true I'm not as nice as Al . I expect difficult things like for people to get their facts straight , be consistant in their concerns , tell the truth and be responsible and accountable for their choices . If people don't meet up with my expectations , I can be a real pain in the ass .

Yup thats me ... But get it clear , as far as I have seen , if anyone "attacked" Robin , or Weheli  , it was me , not Al .   

The reason I am concerned about contradictions is because I see that as being one of the main reasons a lot of well meaning people don't recognize when someone is an exploiter . There are a lot of people who would respect what Native people want ,but when Native people seem to be giving double messages , people get really confused about who to listen to .

Non native people dabbling in Native traditions mostly come into contact with Native people who are comfortable supporting this ,and they are often unaware of the much larger majority of Native people who feel the power and meaning of these traditions are damaged when they are practiced out of context . 

I don't really think this chaos is anyones fault . it is just what happens when traditional ways get mixed with non traditional communities . Situations come up and there is no traditional precedent on how to deal with them and even good people people don't
always agree . But I do think it is important if Native people are telling people what is and isn't exploitation , that they are consistant in their message . Otherwise it comes across as a few Native people who appear to be Spiritual authorities , ( usually only in the eyes of the naive non native community ) saying it's OK for non native people to lead or have a central role in traditional ceremonies , and on the other hand inconsitant unprincipaled harrassment from unreasonable angry Indians. Behavior percieved as unprincipaled harrassment tends to reinforce the misunderstanding that it is just racism that makes traditional leaders want to retain traditional ceremonies within the context of a deeply rooted community . I think these mixed messages really damage what NAFPS is trying to accomplish.

This is why I pressured both Robin and Weheli to clarify their positions expressed in this forum ,  and it was not intended as an attack" . I'm sorry it was percieved this way .     

Al is right when he say's both these people shared a lot of valuable things here , and I am sorry to see that get dragged through the mud of interpersonal misunderstandings .

If I have had a part in this , I apologize .

But as for Lekay who seems like he is looking to promote divisions within Native communities , bad feelings and misunderstandings  .  ::).
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: weheli on July 10, 2007, 07:24:51 pm
Osiyo,
I sent a PERSONAL email to Ann as she was asking for help and I continue to try an follow the activities of  Edwards who is a FRAUD and continues to hurt many people with his sick teachings.
Nothing was ever demanded of this forum to do anything more than what has been done with many other links, research ect.
Ann and I have had a couple emails between us before esp.,after I Traveled to Burnside and to the police there as to what Edwards was doing. I also posted on the Burnside forum concerning Edwards and some responded to my posts, esp. after the interview by the Sommerset paper with Edwards and his claiming to be building a museum which I proved to be a lie. Al and I had emails back and forth as to my going to Burnside and what occured there. Thats all I have to say on this subject.

Posting  of a PERSONAL email I sent to you Ann with my PERSONAL email address, I find totaly unethical. I will not be pulled into what has gone on concerning my Sister Robins interview with Lakaye. What I said to you, ANN, was personal, and I ask Al, out of respect Not only for me and all I have contributed to this board but as a Cherokee Grandmother to delete that post of the email I sent PERSONALLY to ANN, I did not give her permission to give out my personal email address or did I in my farthest thoughts ever think she would feel a need to share this with the NAFPS. It serves no perpose! My heart is sooo very Heavy over all these things here. Wado MP for shedding some light on sone things. Prayers for all. :'(
                                                                                                  Wado
                                                                                                  Weheli
                                                                                       

Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: educatedindian on July 10, 2007, 09:28:44 pm
Kind of a strange situation. I don't think Ann acted out of malice, but I can see why Weheli/Joyce Troxell feels she doesn't wanted her email address posted. But I'll do it anyway.

Interesting, but strange. Joyce and Robin complained on other boards about how bad Robin had been treated, even while Joyce remained a member for years and took part in most of the discussions, often long and detailed discussions. It's clear from her posts in here that Joyce doesn't agree at all with the kind of exploiters and fringe characters Lekay promotes.

I also should point for the Lekays of the world that I didn't delete the criticism of me, and don't plan to.

You see, Mr. Lekay, the only thing that gets censored in here are childishness, personal attacks, and spam, which is all that ever got deleted from your posts. Some of us don't fall apart and whine to the whole world for months at a time just because of losing an argument.

So shame on you for taking a mild disagreement and exploiting a good woman whose been trhough a lot like Robin. You are nearly the equal of Jerry Edwards in how you've used her and badly treated her.
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: steve_w on July 16, 2007, 09:15:18 pm
Educatedindian

That lekay englishman made some good points but i think he is just another fraud. i am so amazed how this site is able to locate and then confront fruadulent people. it's great. oh yeah why doesn't nafps just ban troublemakers like lekay. thank you
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: wasna papa on July 17, 2007, 08:17:13 pm

kola....does lekaye practice medicen or sell cerimoney.

wasna papa
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: frederica on July 17, 2007, 08:40:48 pm
No, not that I am aware. He promotes people that do in his magazine. Showed up here abut a month ago promoting S. Dupree, LookingBack Woman as the "true" pipe carrier of the Lakota Nation. He is no longer here on this list. frederica
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: wasna papa on July 17, 2007, 11:46:48 pm
kola

i have seen his magizine and know lekay has help our people with the uraniam siteration. we have a serouis probelem,. our peopel suport him for his work and thnak him. no other wasicu has done this.  why do you atak him so much.

is this beucse of s dupres

wasna papa

[Al's note; WP was banned. This is actually John Lekay/marlon doing a racist impression of an elderly Lakota woman. So Lekay is a cross dresser too. Pretty funny.]
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: Moma_porcupine on July 18, 2007, 12:42:52 am
I just happened on this today and I thought it explained very well why some of us have felt concerned about some of what Lekay promotes in his on line magazine .

http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=44&t=000203 (http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=44&t=000203)

Michael Nenonen
12 July 2007 01:43 PM

Quote
The essence of commodification is the transformation of communal and localized rituals into amoral and abstracted vehicles for self-development. It strips these rituals of their ethical, social, and often political content.

Consider the difference in the uses of the term "healing" as it's used by First Nations and non-First Nations people. For most First Nations people, the term seems to imply a collective process by individuals which heal as part of the healing of their communities. For most non-First Nations people, the term seems to have purely individual connotations.

There are several dangers here, given the onslaught First Nations cultures are experiencing and the challenge of cultural ransmission under a brutal occupation. First, by appropriating these rituals the colonial society may well alter them significantly, such that First Nations youth--many of whom are alienated from their own cultures--will mistake these corrupted practices with their own cultural legacies. Second, since non-Aboriginal control of media and educational institutions is so entrenched, these corrupted practices may have a competitive edge, such that they may flourish while the original practices die out. Third, these practices perpetuate romanticized stereotypes about First Nations people, and thereby supplant the actual voices of Indigenous cultures.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Wasna papa

It is a lot to read through it all , but if you do I think you will see no one has attacked Lekay . The first thing Lekay did here was to start the thread on Thomas Lighteningbolt asking what we thought of him  . ( and appaerently it was Lekay who posted Thomas in the fraud section as i don't see any of the moderators moved that thread there from somewhere else . ) I think everyone here has done their  best to truthfully and politely answer Lekays questions , but Lekay doesn't like what we say , and has been attacking us ever since .

How i see it , Lekay has been acting like a two year old having a full on temper tantrum because he thinks Grandpa's heart medicine is jelly beans Grandpa doesn't want to share  ... And he can't hear a word anyone is saying over his waiils of protest .
 
Wasna papa , I don't know anyone who is all good or all bad . Even people who do really horrible things that harm many people often have friends and family who they have been good to , or they make some good contributions to their communities . Just because Lekay does good by giving publicity to some good things with his on line magazine , like bringing attention to your uranium situation , doesn't mean everything he does is good , and it doesn't mean everyone Lekay has in his magazine claiming to be a Spiritual leader or Medicine person or a healer really is one .

People who get people to trust them , by claiming some sort of "Indian wisdom " when Indian communities just think they are silly or
con artists do hurt people  . In the section titled Ect there is a topic titled " But Whats the Harm ? " . Maybe if you read through that you will understand better why we are concerened , and why we do, what we do here .

If people feel attacked by people telling the truth about who they are , or about what true cultural practices are , that is their problem not ours , especially if they are coming into other peoples lives and affecting them with their lies and delussions . I believe people speaking up and telling the truth is one of the ways Spirit takes care of things .

Take care  :)

Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: steve_w on July 18, 2007, 01:10:47 am
Moma

perhaps attacked is too strong a word, my mistake, how about disagree? i have read lekay's mag. and it does some good reporting for issues in indian country. i think it is because his is white that many indians here dont trust him. we must remember that we must not judge someone until we have walked a mile in there mocassins. it's an indian quote that i have always loved. thank you.
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: debbieredbear on July 18, 2007, 02:05:16 am
It's not becaueds he's white, Steve, it's because he promotes frauds. Like LBW and "Red Elk" to name two. "Red Elk" is allied with a pervert named Harley Reagan who promotes "Cherokee Sex Magic." Reagan is also a fake vet. If LeKay just did serious issues, and did not promote frauds, I would have no problem with him. His color has no bearing on this.
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: educatedindian on July 18, 2007, 01:43:45 pm
The latest news is that Lekay is apparently making a film about Dupree, a full length feature devoting to smearing Looking Horse. And Lekay is backing the film entirely with his own money. He sent out a series of press releases only last month promoting it.

So it seems that Lekay was lying the entire time he was here. He is not disinterested or nonpartisan as he repeatedly claimed, even though everyone saw through that right away. He is the one who is out to protect his investment in a film.
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: steve_w on July 18, 2007, 03:25:06 pm
EducatedIndian

that lekay guy is trying to exploit indians. do you have the actual news peice where you got the news about lekay? i want to print it out and read it on my way to work, or a link about his fraudulent films. have to be careful, many fake indian documentaries floating around out there. thank you.
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: steve_w on July 18, 2007, 03:30:16 pm
EducatedIndian

sorry, are you cherokee by any chance, we may be relatives, you never know. do you powwow. thank you.
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: educatedindian on July 19, 2007, 05:03:44 pm
No Cherokee that I know of. Go to powwows when I can.

On a side note, to everyone:

"Wasna Papa" has been banned. While posing as an elderly Oglala Lakota woman with poor English living on the rez, the IP address actually shows it to be identical to John Lekay's.

Grow up, John. You gotta quit embarassing yourself like this. Not just by racist ethnic impersonations, but by cross dressing online.
Title: Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
Post by: earthw7 on August 20, 2007, 06:37:11 pm
The elders that i know do not speak bad english they were all in
boarding schools. It is  ashame that this man has gone to such
low degrading levels to prove he is right.
The problem is real native will stand up to him.