Author Topic: Shane Knox AKA Shadowhawk (was Shaman developing a modern edge)  (Read 38136 times)

Offline AlaskaGrl

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Re: Shaman: developing a modern edge
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2005, 09:05:34 pm »
The site begins here, this is the front door to see what NAFPS is about  http://www.newagefraud.org

Unfortunately, many visitors don't read that part to see what Native peoples actually think about  those  trying to emulate and totally change their religious beliefs to suit them.

And no, it is not right or respectful (important word there, respectful) to mix the Tarot and Wicca and the Pagan and the Native American this and that in one place to form some new mish mash of "things" that are somehow supposed to work "together."   And Mr. Shaman,  I am a secure, hereditary witch of 43 years  with a passion for learning.  I understand these spiritual issues, reasonings and needs of others and *therefore respect* Native American rights to their own things.  

Some do come in and complain about Native Americans not wanting others to mix all these things up, some complain when questions are raised but the facts remain:  

Tribes and Native peoples do not wish their beliefs bantied about and they publicly state these things on their websites as well as in here.  Yes, many Tribes and peoples are on the web and they have voices too.  

This list is populated by Native and Non-native people of many backgrounds.  Many of us are professionals in our work day worlds.  

Its all on that front and subsequant pages.


Linda.

Offline shadowhawk

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Re: Shaman: developing a modern edge
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2005, 09:07:08 pm »
sir,

i didn't name myself.  shadowhawk is the name i was given by the grandmothers of the black bear clan in a naming ceremony.  the fact that you do not know of this clan does in no way negate their existence.  also, i never called myself shaman until after twenty years of following the path i finally felt worthy of the title that had been bestowed on me.  the truth is that you have in no way made any attempt to find out anything about me.  i made it quite clear to the interviewer from the paper tha i was not recognized by the lakotas or the cherokees as tribes.  if you would read my website you would learn that i have defined my tribe quite well and that it in no way infringes upon yours or anyone elses.  i have been the spiritual leader of my personal group of friends, family and clients for twenty plus years and will stand by their support as my tribe.  

you feel i am taking something from you all and that was never my intent.  i find it sad that you all feel so slighted by someone that has heartfelt respect for the old ways, but realizes that he lives in a modern time.  

may you all grow.  may you all prosper.  may you all learn to follow your path with integrity, allowing all others the same right.

shadowhawk

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Shaman: developing a modern edge
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2005, 09:34:15 pm »
Mr. Knox, I'm glad you've returned here. I truly mean that.

I'm also glad you're speaking more politely now, instead of lashing out at us in the way you accuse us of being.

Like Linda pointed ou, this is not a "hate" group, anymore than a Rape Crisis Center "hates men". Much like them we work to stop abuse and try to help people who've been harmed. We've helped many people in five years, probably in the hundreds. That's what keeps us going, without pay and even facing almost threats from some of the more unbalanced exploiters.

The whole "hate" claim is even more ridiculous when you realize we have members from over a dozen tribes, Blacks, whites, even a Maori member, and almost every faith, Native traditionalists, Christians, white pagans, atheists, and one Muslim member.

I invite you to stay here, read the links, the archives, and learn as much as you can. Talk to us with an open mind and see where we're coming from instead of kneejerk or unthinking anger and bitterness.

A few more points before you hopefully start to read these links below:

1) It doesn't matter that I haven't heard about the "Black Bear Clan", supposedly Lumbee.

What matters is THE LUMBEES HAVE NEVER HEARD OF THEM. They just plain don't have clans. Accept it and deal with it.

2) You have a group of friends. You don't have a "tribe".
A true Tribe=a nation, people connected by common lineage and culture going back as far as anyone can trace.

At best you have a social club, and clubs don't have elders, though they might have people who are elderLY.

Thus under every Native tradition, including Lumbee, Cherokee, and Lakota, you don't have a real Indian name. Accept it and deal with it instead of getting angry at the people telling you the hard truth.

Anyway, hope you read these and reflect on them:

Excellent Sites for Learning About Native Spirituality

Be Very Careful When Choosing a Sweatlodge!
http://users.pandora.be/gohiyuhi/nafps/articles/art21.htm

When Someone Claims to be a "Pipe Carrier"
http://users.pandora.be/gohiyuhi/nafps/articles/art23.htm

New Age People Misusing "Mitakuye Oyasin" by Mike Two Horses
http://users.pandora.be/gohiyuhi/nafps/articles/art04.htm

A Cherokee's Plea for Respect
http://users.pandora.be/gohiyuhi

Statement from Dr. Richard Allen of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma
http://users.pandora.be/gohiyuhi/articles/art00001.htm

Statement from the Navajo Nation
http://users.pandora.be/gohiyuhi/nafps/articles/art19.htm

And a Fantastic Collection of Links on What Virtually ALL Native People Think About New Age or Would Be "Shamanism"
http://users.pandora.be/gohiyuhi/articles/index.htm

Offline shadowhawk

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Re: Shaman: developing a modern edge
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2005, 11:15:22 pm »
this is the last time i will be returning to your hate site.  your unwaivering malicious attacking of my life long path is nothing more than insulting as you don't know me at all personally.  i have nothing to learn from a bunch of narrow minded individuals that would rather spend their time calling people wannabes and declaring self emposed "truths".  your stating something doesn't make it true, sir.  you need to realize you do not speak for every lumbee or native american.  you speak for yourself, as do i in my work and my path.  

i still will pray to grandfather to open your eyes to the understanding of the world we live in today and help you to step out of your self emposed darkness and into some sense of light and acceptance.  

i fear you do not have what it takes to do that.  that is sad.

be well.  i wish you no harm.  i simply wish for you to stop attacking me as you do not know me.  i have never claimed any of the things you are upset about and this back and forth game has become tiresome.

shadowhawk

Offline JosephSWM

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Re: Shaman: developing a modern edge
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2005, 12:21:35 am »
Mr. Knox,

I have lived in Baltimore for 48 years, 32 of which have been involved with our Indian center. This center was founded by Lumbees (I am Cherokee). It was founded as I have stated before in a Baptist Church. Ask any Lumbee, any 80,000 of them that are enrolled in NC and 99%, I would bet my last dollar on, would say that they are southern baptist. I gave a call to the chair of our board of directors and asked about this clan. He is Lumbee. He never heard of it.

If you liked, next week I have two meetings at our Indian center. All in attendance will be Lumbee except for myself and the director. I will ask them about this clan. I will ask every Lumbee I know if you would like. Contact the Lumbee registrar's office in NC and ask them. Call our Indian center here and ask them, 410-675-3535.

I am not trying to be mean nor nasty nor a know-it-all but this is something I know about. I think Mr. Carroll has conducted himself in very nice manner in regards to the subject being discussed and has been very cordial to you.

Joseph

Offline SRCARROLL

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Re: Shaman: developing a modern edge
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2005, 06:19:21 am »
I don't get what the whole problem of practicing traditional ways in todays society is.  Every society evoles and grows. mixing practices seems like to me a natural progression of todays society. Look at the population of the U.S. for instance a big melting pot, and only increasing so as time goes on. It seems to me that Shadowhawks beliefs and practices is a natural progression of a changing society. If his practices and beliefs really help people how wrong can they really be. I am a proud member of this tribe that people seem to think is a "social club" i have been members of social clubs before and this is far from that.. he is the leader of our tribe, he is the one that we go to, to get advise or learn more, as we grow on our own spiritual path, in todays society that makes him the shaman of our "modern day" tribe.  Shadowhawk has helped me on my personal spiritual growth for over 12 years, I believe in him and what he does, I personally know of other people he has helped along there spiritual path, how can his work be harmful, when so much good and enlightment has come from it.  would challenge anybody to try to make me understand how what Shadowhawk does is harmful when i have experienced so many good things, for me personally and other members of our "modern tribe".                                                                                                                                                           thanks, And please have tolerance for our beliefs, as we do of everyone elses.  S.R. Carroll    CARROLL          

Offline shadowhawk

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Re: Shaman: developing a modern edge
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2005, 04:02:04 pm »
i had hoped to not feel the need to return here, but i feel there is one important point that is being overlooked.  you all act as though native americans would never have evolved in their spiritual and cultural practices.  that is actually rather insulting of the intelligence level of the native americans.  we are communicating via computer, not smoke signals.  many of us will eat our meal today that was bought in a store or taken from a fast food window, not hunted or gathered as would be traditional.  native americans have evolved and changed with the times.  not all ride horses.  in fact i would venture to say many own cars.  

my point being that for you to say that things cannot change with the times and be brought into the modern age is to say that native americans are lacking in the intellect to adapt.  it is my understanding that just the opposite has occurred.  natives, like all other people across the globe adapt to their surroundings.  they grow and change with the land and the variables that are presented in any society.  

please do not belittle the native americans by stating that things cannot change.  if the "white" man had never come to this land it is still my beliefs that native americans would have grown and changed as have all cultures throughout time, throughout the world.  

whether you are in agreement or whether you like it or not we all share this land.  we all share access to Spirit.  you have no exclusive claim to that.  in truth in this modern day and age i was born a native to america. my life evolved in such a way that i was led to walk the path of a shaman.  i have complete respect for your people, with the one exception that you are not willing to give that same respect, rather acting out on your unknowing about what i do.  you feel the need to attack instead of attempting to learn and grow as you suggest i should do.  you have painted me as a villian.  that i am unlearned in what i speak of and practice.  how much have you attempted to actually learn about me and my path?  one article from newpaper....my website.  none of you have spoken personally with me.  you attack, act childish and then throw those same accusations back to me.  you are not willing to grant that which you ask of me.  why therefore should i listen to what you have to say?  if the goal of your group is to spread information and learning then you have failed as you have attacked and belittled instead of reaching out in the energy of growth and understanding. you have damaged your own mission.  i am not an unwaivering person.  i value information and understanding.  i have been unable to gain any from this site as you put me on the defensive from the first posts.

you claim to want to educate and preserve that which is sacred to you.  all i have seen so far is backbiting and attacking negativity.  i doubt i am the only one to feel that there is nothing to gain from this site when that is how you go about your crusade.  

in truth i wish you nothing but goodness, success and prosperity in your endeavors.  i do this because i believe there is room for us all in this world.  i believe that if you ask Grandfather you will find that he feels the same way.  i would encourage you to do what you ask of others.  step back from where you are standing and look with the intention of learning at what i do.  it in no way damages you.  it has nothing to do with you.  the simple fact is that in this country we have a thing called religious freedom.  that freedom grants me the right to practice shamanism as i see fit. you have absolutely no authority to say otherwise.  you would be wise you realize this.  if you wish you discuss things giving the same respect you demand of me then that would be one thing.  you have yet to show the maturity to do that.  it is my hope that you all grow and learn from this.  your cause is noble, your tactics are not.  you attacked out of knee jerk reactions to an article in the newpaper.  not out of first hand experience or knowledge.  the name "educated indian" is rather misleading here.  how educated have you become on what i do, who i am, or actually what i believe in?  one article.  one limited perspective.  one window into a lifetime's work and dedication.  you may feel the only thing here is tradition and rights versus modernization but let me remind you that i am a person.  an individual that deserves basic human decency and respect, just as you would like to have.  you have not only attacked me but many people not listed in the article.  the members of my "tribe" have done nothing to you and yet you have lumped them into your attacks.  does this make you feel proud?  does this help your cause?  i would think not on either situation.  

we come from a point of acceptance and understanding that we live in the modern world.  we will continue to live and worship in our own way and you have no authority to stop that.  there is a truth we will all have to accept.  you had before you an opportunity to network and spread your ideals but you chose instead to attack and act so pettily that you have only damaged your own cause.  

i wish you greater luck in the future.

shadowhawk



Offline shadowhawk

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Re: Shaman: developing a modern edge
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2005, 06:59:52 pm »
i have been reading back through all of the posts and am struck my one major question:  when did i claim to be an indian?  when did i say that the lakotas or lumbee nation recognizes me or backs me in any way.  i have told my personal story.  i have told you all of the people that i have met in my life and the experiences that came from them.  when i say i honor the native traditions, i refer to all peoples, worldwide.  my ancestory is scotch irish...celtic on my fathers side.  they too have clans and shamans.  on my mothers it is a mix, including cherokee.  my family is very close knit as are my friends and even my clients.  we do form our own version of a tribe or clan.  i do not mean that in your limited definition of it but for us it is quite real.  

if you had actually read with intent the article that has spawned all of this you would have realized that i practice "moderns day shamanism", drawing from many cultures and teachings.  i honor all of them.  to honor means to respect.  i respect all traditions and all paths that lead to spirit.  

what title would you have me use?  shamans are found in all cultures, all traditions around the world.  not all of the cultures will fit your definitions and qualifiers to be recognized by you but that does not mean we do not exist.  

it is unfortunate that you have all forced us to focus only on our differences instead of working together to create greater understanding.  

shadowhawk

Offline debbieredbear

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Re: Shaman: developing a modern edge
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2005, 09:18:17 pm »
Shaman is a Siberian word. I know of NO tribe that uses this term. Please do not call Indian holy people shamans as that is a new age buzz word. If you want to be one, fine. But find out what it means, other than new age bs. Right now I am dealing with a local fraud who calls himself a shaman and has people buffaloed into thinking he is a real live "Indian Shaman." He uses women sexually and is making a lot of $$. In my community, a reservation, shaman is not something ANY decent person would call themselves. And as I am mixed blood, Indian and Celtic, I know that my Celtic ancestors did not have shamans either. Most of the "Celtic Shamans" I have met are nuage wannabe somethings. They mix in wicca and say that is Celtic. No, it's not. They mix in this and that and the other thing.  

One other thing: I did not call you a fraud. I asked what others thought. That's why you are posted in the more research needed section. The people I have posted in the fraud section are the real thing. Including that creep I mentioned above. I gave you the benefit of the doubt. Your own words condemn you.

Offline Barnaby_McEwan

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Re: Shaman: developing a modern edge
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2005, 04:38:25 pm »
Quote
i have been reading back through all of the posts and am struck my one major question:  when did i claim to be an indian?  when did i say that the lakotas or lumbee nation recognizes me or backs me in any way.

Don't be silly: all your publicity is intended to signal to the ignorant, including yourself, that you have access to special, authentically Indian knowledge.

Quote
when i say i honor the native traditions, i refer to all peoples, worldwide.

I think Indian people tend to feel that your 'honouring' them is:

"...just superficial, hypocritical puffery. People should remember that an honor isn't born when it parts the honorer's lips, it is born when it is accepted in the honoree's ear."
...Glenn T. Morris, AIM Colorado

(from http://www.spokesmanreview.com/allstories-news-story.asp?date=060104&ID=s1525408 )

Morris is talking about 'Indian' sports team mascots. Festooning your 'spiritual path' with fictional Lumbee clans, calling yourself a tribal elder and so on, is no different to a Washington Redskins fan 'honouring Indians' by doing the 'Tomahawk chop'. I hope you wouldn't say that blacking up and singing 'Mammy' is a way to honour black people; what you do is the same, no matter how spiritual it makes you feel.

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my ancestory is scotch irish...celtic on my fathers side. they too have clans and shamans.

*Sigh* So many egregious errors in two short sentences. You know no more about your European ancestors than your alleged Indian relations. It's 'Scottish'; nobody from Scotland says 'Scotch' - and there's a difference between Scottish and Irish people; saying 'Scotch Irish' is like saying 'Dutch Spanish'. Further, the pre-Roman inhabitants of Scotland and Ireland - some of whom you apparently believe were 'shamans' - never called themselves 'Celts'. That only began to happen in the mid-eighteenth century, based on a series of linguistic and archaeological errors. The term 'shaman' is not used, except by fantasists, to refer to these peoples' intellectual class: I think you might mean 'Druids'.

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what title would you have me use?  shamans are found in all cultures, all traditions around the world.

No, they aren't: that's a stereotype based on racist assumptions about 'primitive' people and their 'archaic' religions. As Debbie has pointed out, the word 'shaman' comes from Siberian people, specifically Tungus speakers in Central Siberia. Since the 1940s when anthropologist Robert Lowie taught his students to use the word in place of phrases like 'medicine man' and 'witch doctor', it has become as facile and loaded with racist baggage as the labels it was intended to replace. As another anthropologist, Alice Beck Kehoe, writes in 'Shamans and Religion: An Anthropological Exercise in Critical Thinking (Waveland Press, 2000, ISBN 1-57766-162-1):

'...Even among Tungus speakers, there are several distinct ritual practitioners, not all called "shaman". It is confusing and misleading to use a simple blanket word, lifted from an unfamiliar Asian language, for a variety of culturally recognized distinct practices and practitioners.' (p. 53).

Using the concept of 'shamanism' is not a way to honour people, and it's not our job to help you think of an alternative.

Quote
it is unfortunate that you have all forced us to focus only on our differences instead of working together to create greater understanding.
 
You could start me on my journey to greater understanding of what you do by explaining how come you met someone from a non-existent Lumbee clan. Joseph has pointed out, very politely, that they have no black bear or any other clan. You haven't responded to his efforts to help you, which is surprising from someone who puts so much emphasis on respect.

Offline shadowhawk

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Re: Shaman: developing a modern edge
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2005, 04:51:54 pm »
i will stand by my statements, as they are accurate depictions of my life and my path.  i will let the readers that happen upon your little hate site to form their own views.  

i am shadowhawk.  shaman of my modern day tribe. you can like it or not but it is the truth.  i invite all who read these posts to form their own opinions.  

i thank you all for helping me to know that my path has value and need in light of such arrogant narrow mindedness.  

shadowhawk

Offline Barnaby_McEwan

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Re: Shaman: developing a modern edge
« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2005, 05:34:50 pm »
Quote
i will stand by my statements, as they are accurate depictions of my life and my path.

Nobody's saying you're a liar: I'm sure you really believe everything you've written here. However, I think you are deluded and are deluding other people in turn.

Quote
i invite all who read these posts to form their own opinions.

People don't need an invitation to do that, Shane. I'm sure many will form the common-sense opinion of your inability to explain your encounter with medicine women from a non-existent clan.

And I'm sure people will also note the way you've ignored those Indian people here who've told you things you don't want to hear. So much for respecting Indians.

Quote
i thank you all for helping me to know that my path has value and need in light of such arrogant narrow mindedness.

Ah, the odour of sanctity. There's nothing like it for disguising the stink of BS.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 am by Barnaby_McEwan »

Offline AlaskaGrl

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Re: Shaman: developing a modern edge
« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2005, 06:29:50 pm »
"Native people DO NOT believe it is ethical to charge money for any ceremony or teaching. Any who charge you even a penny are NOT authentic. ? Native traditionalists believe the ONLY acceptable way to transmit traditional teachings is orally and face-to-face. Any allegedly traditional teachings in books or on websites are NOT authentic.

Learning medicine ways takes decades and must be done with great caution and patience out of respect for the sacred. Any offer to teach you all you need to know in a weekend seminar or two is wishful thinking at best, fraud at worst. We (native people and our supporters) realize that most of you do not know any better, at least not yet, but we hope you learn about these matters from more reputable sources and in a more respectful manner.

If it says New Age or Shamanism on the cover, it's not a good source for learning about natives. Find out which authors can be trusted before you pay money to operators who harm us all."

http://www.newagefraud.org ?
For further information.

Linda
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 am by AstronomyGal »

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Shaman: developing a modern edge
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2005, 11:46:04 pm »
Quote
"I don't get what the whole problem of practicing traditional ways in todays society is. ? Every society evoles and grows. "

You must be kidding SR. What he does is NOT traditional. Even Mr. Knox admits that.

And do you realize how condescending and racist you sound? You just said that *you* are more evolved. The clear implication is that you think we're primitive savages.

"mixing practices seems like to me a natural progression of todays society."

And yet before, you claimed he was traditional.

"Look at the population of the U.S. for instance a big melting pot, and only increasing so as time goes on. "

The "melting pot" is something we DONT want. A melting pot DESTROYS what gets put into it.

"he is the leader of our tribe, he is the one that we go to, to get advise or learn more, as we grow on our own spiritual path, in todays society that makes him the shaman of our "modern day" tribe. "?

There you go again with your racist rhetoric of white superiority to allegedly primitive Indians.

? "I would challenge anybody to try to make me understand how what Shadowhawk does is harmful when i have experienced so many good things, for me personally and other members of our "modern tribe"."

For one thing , it sure hasn't "enlightened" you about a thing. You're spouting racist stereotypes, and I wouldn't call that enlightenment by a long shot.

Offline shadowhawk

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Re: Shaman: developing a modern edge
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2005, 05:20:58 am »