NAFPS Forum
General => Research Needed => Topic started by: Laurel on September 29, 2007, 02:53:03 pm
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From a page of Responses to the Lakota Declaration of War. This guy hits all the high (low) notes. Sing along, everybody!
--"All my relations"
--I know some Lakota words!
--Exploitation is so wrong. What I do is the exception.
--People who won't give me what I want are just racists.
--"Black Elk's Vision"
--"Nobody owns spirituality"
--Being a PODIA Means Something even though I can't prove I am one.
--I've always been fascinated by things Native, and that means I get to have them.
--I've had visions!
--The Nice/Real Indians accept and love me, not like you meanies who think you have a right to preserve your own ways.
--If every single Native American ever born doesn't back a statment, it has no merit.
--The great spirit told me to steal your stuff.
--Cheesy "Indian name"
What makes him truly special are gems like "who am I to deny myself?" and "I think I earned it."
I lopped off his email address because I'm nice.
Laurel
All my relations: Oyate!! Kola!!
I am fully aware of the "Warrior" statement and what is attempting to say. The appropriation of an sacred spiritual tenet and or ceremony for profit is just dead wrong regardless of the culture that surrounds it. It is sacrilegious plain and simple. So I agree with the basic premise. I am also aware that Chief Arvol Looking Horse issued the same sort of proclamation not to long ago which had more to do with out and out racism in reverse. I understand where he was coming from, I just think he is wrong. That the owner of The Sacred C'anupa do this surprised and even shocked me. Black Elk himself would have been rolling over in his grave to learn of this. His vision was one of inclusion not of separateness. However: I have been in contact with many Native elders who disagree with Arvol's point of view and go about teaching and doing ceremony in a sacred manner and walking their talk. As a matter of course many Native elders and teachers and Tribal Councils have not endorsed either proposals from the parties concerned. No one not even The Pope owns any sacred truth. The one that holds a sacred truth is the one who holds it in his/her heart. Skin color or blood quantum does not give anyone the right to control spiritual discipline..
As for myself, I was told at an early age that I had Native blood in my veins though that side of the family is attempting to hide the truth. There is another tenuous connection on the Native side as well. I have "felt" different from the time of my birth and I broke with "White" religion many years ago. I remember being fascinated with Native geometrical designs. Then several years ago I had several experiences that can only be described as Native American Spiritual visions and happenings. Those experiences put me on "The Good Red Road" and even changed my life and literally saved me from suicide. I am a sincere spiritual person and I am not out to exploit Native Spirituality or run a Sweat or do healings or be a Wakan Wic'as'a or anything of the kind. I have danced at Powwows and been included in many Native ceremonies. I was honored to be accepted everywhere I went. I have Been to Sundance in Pipestone Minnesota, where I was gifted several blocks of Pipestone which I then carved into pipes, one given away, and the other are a ceremonial pipe to be brought out later and a personal one. Who am I to deny myself this gifts of Creator?
I am merely following the intent of Wakan Tanka as I continue down the Red Road. I am honored to be on this road. I have been gifted an Indian name and I think I earned it. I offer this in Peace and in Love
Mitakuye Oyasin; WA DO: MEGWIITCH; GO NEH!! Wowagha; Man Sky Hawk
[Al's Note: Title changed to add the name of person being researched.]
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When I saw the name Pope, I thought it was too much of a coincidence to be that Pope family. Still a lot that isn't clear, but Jerry Pope has apparently had some accusations against him for associating with a possible fraud.
http://www.indianz.com/board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15449
Keely: I had also heard from a former Police officer from the state of Ohio that he came upon Jerry Pope with a young girl of about 13... the young girl was nude, Jerry was not "nude" but the officer made his presence known, Jerry began to fumble (the officer believed it was his pants zipper" exclaiming "This is not what you think it is!!"
Thoms wife, has claimed in the past that she and Jerry Pope are as brother and sister... I am sure Thom would like to see a sworn statement about his "adopted" brother in law??
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Earlier in the thread they discussed "Dark Rain Thom".
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Keely: Dark Rain Thom, thats what she calls herself, and never does she tell anyone her birth name... she like so many other frauds always avoid that family name or family information... why? Because, now with computers and online access, one can either prove them right or prove them frauds.... Genealogy is not such a hard thing after all...
I got an email, someone went to public marriage records and looked up James Thom's marriages... and there he is, married to one Mari Silveous... date of marriage, May 28, 1984... it was his second marriage, and they married on his birthday...
Does she think she can hide forever? AAhhhhh no.... in fact, once she is dead, her birth information is public, she no longer has rights... but I hope to find more information on her before she dies, so that it can be put forth to everyone who ever believed in her...
Mari told Don Greenfeather, that her former husband beat her on her head, and she cannot remember "all her grandmother taught her".. what a nice try to avoid questions she did not have answers to...
One question I am sure she has not had "beaten" out of her is: What is your Indian family names??
I ask everyone here, who comes across these people who are frauds, trying to avoid using their real names
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And also...
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Keely: Thom should be concerned though... his wife has been known to be a huge part of the former URP/URB group out of Ohio, that group was forced to remove their claim of being state recognized, they got into some trouble with the State of Ohio for making this fraudulant claim It has been documented that this group did have convicted child molestors involved, and that females of all ages were REQUIRED to be nude from the waist up... now I sure would not want my daughter around convicted molestors, and certainly not partially nude!
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Another thread at Indianz.
http://64.62.196.98/board/post.asp?method=ReplyQuote&REPLY_ID=313583&TOPIC_ID=15064&FORUM_ID=5
Originally posted by skote
Well....
From what I hear the Caverns are ready to be foreclosed on thanks to Jerry Pope's embezelment of some money, but nothing solid on that, now from what I hear they are changing their name to the true east of the river shawnee nation or some such thing. It's a group that does have some good people with good hearts and even some legit descendants, they just been lead way down the wrong path! All I can say is a split with Jerry Pope is a good start.
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Keely: i doubt anyone connected with the urp/urb has any legit claim to the shawnee... i have done popes genealogy, and there is no indian blood there at all, and i used the information he himself provided.
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Yet another thread at Indianz.
http://www.indianz.com/board/post.asp?method=ReplyQuote&REPLY_ID=151160&TOPIC_ID=6857&FORUM_ID=5
skote:
Here is another one for the list... especially for anyone from Ohio...
Jerry "Hawk" Pope leader of the infamous Shawnee United Remnant Band of Ohio.
I was watching a Robert Mirabal special on PBS and noticed one of the people he had working with him on Spirit was non other than Jerry Pope, a full blooded German who claims to be a descendant of a Shawnee named Thickwater... absolute B.S.
He's been duping people in Ohio now for many years into "joining his group" One of my cheif ambitions for moving back home is to put an end to Jerry's run here in my people's homeland!
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Again, all this is still needing more research. Keely has been known to let her anger get the best of her.
So this is moved to Research Needed.
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Keeley pretty reliable though in her information. Unfortunately that group/tribe has I believe has State recognition in Ohio, unless it's been taken away. It looks shady, but has never been pinned down.
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Eek--and here I thought I had picked some random nut. Scary stuff. The site of responses is several pages long--I wonder how many predators have posted similar apologetics there?
Laurel
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I'll be following this thread closely. One of Pope's associates, Dark Rain Thom (his sister?), gives me serious heebie jeebies.
The Indiana Native American Indian Affairs Commission had a town hall meeting in my college town this weekend, sponsored by the Native student groups. Among other things, they said Indiana is going to introduce criteria soon for state recognition SOON.
Some of the commissioners are great people (members of real tribes), but some are new agers or worse. Thom is one of the new agers on the commission. (I felt gross just having been in the same room with her. Sick woman had the gall to complain about new agers, too.)
Obviously, with people like Thom on the commission, the recognition criteria could include groups like Thom's/Pope's "tribe." Just wanted to let you know that, anything you find out in regards to Thom and Pope, it would be good to get her off that commission. Just being on it gives her and Pope credibility to speak for Indians.
I am really angry--we hoped for help from the commission to push my university to meaningfully include American Indians in diversity initiatives, and we want to support the commission in the useful work that it does. But seeing the newspaper coverage run laden with quotes from her (and totally ignoring the local people) and her picture really made me realize one new ager could hijack the event and use it to her own advantage. Her presence makes future work with the commission difficult for us because we don't want to be associated with frauds or give them credibility. I hadn't known she would attend this town hall meeting or we would have seriously rethought hosting it.
I guess this isn't a very helpful post, but pinning these people down for what they are is important and anything you find out could make a difference in getting Thom off that commission (and, consequently, ensure that any state recognition in Indiana doesn't include Pope's group).
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There's plenty of information that both the Thoms know very little about what they're talking about. They keep getting the most basic information wrong. For example, they promote the myth of Tecumseh falling in love with a white woman and refusing to ever marry an NDN woman.
But I don't see any sign of them selling ceremony or cheating people of money, though it's quite possible they'll divert state money to their group. I did see Keely mentioning a number of times that there are many abusive people in the Thoms' group. Perhaps the best thing would be to contact Keely? Perhaps she could help get hold of police reports, etc.
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I don't have any more on the Thoms, but someone did pass onto me these items on the URB and Pope.
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http://64.62.196.98/board/post.asp?method=ReplyQuote&REPLY_ID=313583&TOPIC_ID=15064&FORUM_ID=5
john_mohdom Posted - 08/11/2005 : 9:31:41 PM
quote:Originally posted by skote
Well....
From what I hear the Caverns are ready to be foreclosed on thanks to Jerry Pope's embezelment of some money, but nothing solid on that, now from what I hear they are changing their name to the true east of the river shawnee nation or some such thing. It's a group that does have some good people with good hearts and even some legit descendants, they just been lead way down the wrong path! All I can say is a split with Jerry Pope is a good start.
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john_mohdom Posted - 08/02/2005 : 11:30:54 PM
thanks...it's not the first time I've heard ex"members" disallusioned with that group. I'll do a little searching around and see what I come up with...thanks for the heads up.
both their 'official' URB web site and the Zane Caverns site appear to have been down for some time. Rumor has it they ousted Pope last year. ...nothing public to confirm or deny that yet.
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http://forum.americanindiantribe.com/viewtopic.php?p=10554&sid=aa7983eabd7ddfbe70498e581c107f8f
somedudenohio
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:13 am
Yeah too bad for hawk poop !
you see some of his "artwork" he had for sell on the website ?
I thought some f it was kinda petaphilish young nakid girl called mothers treasure and draw pictures of topless women. I'l be nice and say hawk poop was a good artist , but his choices of his drawings are just too piggish for me.
did ya know Dick Celeste signed that little paper to give them same recognition as a state park. - I asked the govenors office about it via the phone they tried to blow me off till i sent them a copy of that document the urb had on their website. they told me dick celeste signed it , they finally admitted it. just like they are finally admitting other "tribes"they state recog. through out the 70's and 80's pretty pathetic, they will state clarify any one who looks like a ndn off a john wayne movie .
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I added quotes to make it clearer that Beaderman is responding to Pope's article.
http://beadermansdealings.blogspot.com/2007/01/urb-is-desperate.html
URB is desperate
From the pages of : http://www.zaneshawneecaverns.net/donations.shtml
"An Appeal for Help
Shawnee People Cannot Buy, Sell Or Trade Land
We were prevented from the selling of half of our land so that we could pay off the other half of our land for nearly 3 years.
It took a Judge to finally end that. We have a seasonal business and it’s the beginning of winter now. We need the help of good people that can see how unfairly we have been treated.
We need your help to get through the winter. Your contribution no matter how large or small will make the difference between losing the land we’ve fought to keep or not.
For the whole story please continue to read as it will tell you in more detail what we have and are going through at this point."
Now this is pathetic! but wait it gets even more pathetic!
"We are the People of the Shawnee Nation United Remnant Band.We are making this appeal directly to the American Public.
We need your help to keep from losing the last of our land."
See told ya should of listen huh ??
If they are losing their land ok , then i'm kinda sorry to hear that. But I ask you to look at it this way , they are a business. When a business is losing its investment , what does that say , BAD business management!
"All my life I have heard good people say how sorry they are that the American Indian have had almost all their land taken away. I believe that. Good People also say that this all happened so long ago before their time.
I used to believe that too.
Well this is what is happening to our Tribe in Ohio RIGHT NOW, in 2006."
Ok tribes lost their lands it happened, sad to say , but it did.
Ok I'll retort .. BAD BUSINESS MANAGEMENT!
"We have done everything we have been told to do by the Lawyers and Bankers and Land Title Underwriters and still are not being allowed to sell half of our land to save the rest. Every attempt took considerable time and we have been at this for 3 years now. It is very difficult not to believe the great length of time this has taken was not intentional. We have a seasonal business on our land and winter is coming.
It is not too late to help us save the little land we have left. I cannot count how many times I’ve heard it would have turned out differently if I’d been there. Well this is happening in our time and you can help make this turn out right.
We were recognized by the Legislature of the State of Ohio as a descendant Tribe of the Historic Shawnee Nation, in 1980. Sub AM. H.J.R. 8. We are listed by the Bureau of Indian Affairs as a State Recognized Tribe in Ohio.
We receive no money or services from the State or Federal Governments of any kind."
These are lies!!! lie lie lie!!!
"We are a 501-C-3 tax exempt entity and can receive donations. Send your tax exempt donations thru our donations link."
Don't waste your money! Take your money to another worthy cause..this is a failing business and it will go under. sloppy mis managed funds and a business by nickle and dime people that really believe they are ndns!
"I warmly invite you to visit Zane Shawnee Caverns and take a step back in time. Witness for yourselves an historic Shawnee village and 1800’s era pioneer village and trading post. Tour the underground caves and browse the gift shop. Visit the museum and learn about Ohio’s early Shawnee and our state’s history. Spend some time with Mother Nature while camping at our rustic campgrounds or in one of our cabins or RV spots. Walk the grounds of our ancestors and visit the ancient Shawnee Marker Tree.
Thank you in advance for you time and consideration,
Chief Hawk Pope"
Yep your welcome Jerry Pope... and thank you for making your admitted lies so easy to show.
Besides I wouldn't waste my time to visit the ZANE CAVERNS! why would me or any one with any sense want to make you and your lunatic followrs rich , not me , I give what money I have to REAL Native Nations , who really appreciate the donations so they can feed their elders and cloth their kids.
This sure is the lowest "whoa with me" " I've fallen on hard times" story I ever read or heard about.
Really Jerry .. its pathetic...
Oh .. one more thing..
anyone involved with the Shawnee URB Nation is not Shawnee or any other ndn at all ! they are :
phonies, liars, cheats, frauds, snake-oil salesmen, weirdos, and jackasses.
I CHARGE THESE GROUPS OF
Creating Identity at Indian Expense: Public Ignorance, Private Gain
SEE RELATED LINK: http://beadermansdealings.blogspot.com/2006/12/creating-identity-at-indian-expense.html
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Shawnee URB Press Release
SHAWNEE NATION, UNITED REMNANT BAND OF OHIO STRIKES BACK
Concerning the Validity of State Recognition of the Shawnee Nation, United Remnant Band of Ohio
A press release on the website of the United States Mint dated October 31st stated,
“ The United States Mint is offering a refund of $130 to persons who own the 2004 United States Mint Lewis and Clark Coin and Pouch Set, if the pouch was produced by the Shawnee Nation, United Remnant Band of Ohio. The U.S. Mint has learned that neither the state nor Federal authorities recognize the Shawnee Nation United Remnant Band of Ohio as an official Indian tribe. Therefore, the pouch is not an authentic American Indian arts and crafts product.???
Leo Jennings, spokesperson for the Ohio Attorney General’s Office mis-spoke (maliciously or not) concerning the worth of the State Recognition of the Shawnee Nation, United Remnant Band of Ohio (Joint Resolution SUB.AM. H.J.R. 8, 1980). The Attorney General’s Office claims this document has no legal bearing (is not a serious document). This recent unjustified attack falls somewhere in the general area of liable/slander/defamation of character.
According to the Ohio Legislative Service Commission, Chapter 5, titled “Enacting Legislation???, there are two categories of major documents that embody the work of the General Assembly. They are resolutions and bills. Resolutions, generally, are formal expressions of the opinions and wishes of the General Assembly and do not require the approval of the Governor. There are three types of resolutions: Joint, Concurrent and Simple. Joint Resolutions are used only to ratify proposed amendments to the U.S. Constitution, to call for a federal constitutional convention, or when required by custom or a statute. For example, proposals seeking to amend the Ohio Constitution are customarily offered as Joint Resolutions. Joint Resolutions require the approval of both Houses and after approval must be filed with the Secretary of State. How could anything be more serious than that? Unlike the other two forms of resolution (Concurrent and Simple) which amount to a commendation or congratulation for a group or event of interest to one or both of the Houses of the Legislature, the Joint Resolution is the form of resolution that carries legal merit.
Beginning in 1979, the Ohio Legislature’s Interstate Cooperation Committee held hearings to determine if the Shawnee Nation, United Remnant Band of Ohio had a good enough case for state recognition to put such resolution before the House and the Senate for a vote to adopt the joint resolution. The submission of maps, genealogy, documents, photographs, tribal rolls, etc. was part of the hearings process. Testimony supporting the case was also given by tribal members, the Ohio Historical Society, and the Legislative Review Commission. The rough draft was read in the committee hearings repeatedly, discussed, altered and finally emerged as Substitute Amended House Joint Resolution 8. Then it was voted on in the Ohio House of Representatives, which passed, and then voted on (unanimous) in the Ohio Senate and passed. It was finally adopted as a House Joint Resolution to recognize the Shawnee Nation, United Remnant Band of Ohio as the descendents of the original historic Shawnee Nation.
The Joint Resolution to recognize the Shawnee Nation, United Remnant Band of Ohio has clearly been mis-defined as being one of the lesser forms of resolution. The Ohio Attorney General is required to know the difference between the three types of resolutions and his ignorance of legislative process has caused The Shawnee Nation, United Remnant Band serious harm. The Attorney General’s recent erroneous statements about our State Recognition have caused the United States Mint to recall small beaded pouches made by our tribal crafters for the Lewis & Clark Commemorative Coins and Pouch Set and has served to defame and humiliate our good people.
The U.S. Mint is not without responsibility in this matter. They did not even speak to us before making erroneous statements and acting in such a damaging and irresponsible manner. As a side note of interest, recognition of any kind (state or federal) was NOT REQUIRED as per the contract the U.S. Mint signed with the Lewis and Clark Circle of Tribal Advisors of which The Shawnee Nation, United Remnant Band was a member at the time. Does anyone yet read their own laws and legal contracts before they act to do harm to anyone?
The Indian Arts and Crafts Board is part of the Department of the Interior. The Department of the Interior was the primary U.S. Governmental entity that interfaced with the whole Lewis & Clark effort and was fully supportive of the Circle of Tribal Advisors (which at that time the Shawnee Nation, United Remnant Band was a member and in good standing) and their actions.
The Bureau of Indian Affairs is also part of the Department of the Interior and has been fully aware of our State recognition and did so acknowledge in a letter to U.S. Congressman Tony Hall. The letter is dated May 16, 1986 and states, “We did receive on March 25th, 1980 a copy of the resolution granting state recognition for the group. We acknowledged our receipt of the state’s resolution on April 4th, 1980.??? Copies are available upon request from the Shawnee Nation, United Remnant Band.
Governor Richard F. Celeste (governor at that time), in a letter to the Shawnee Nation, United Remnant Band stated “on behalf of the citizens of the state of Ohio, I would like to congratulate you on the occasion of the third anniversary of official state recognition of your tribe as the Shawnee Nation???. This letter is dated January 29, 1984; copies are available upon request from the Shawnee Nation, United Remnant Band.
The erroneous statements of the Ohio Attorney General’s Office, the United States Mint and the Indian Arts and Crafts Board feels to us like a joint effort to slander and defame the Shawnee Nation, United Remnant Band. We wonder how much this may have to do with Ohio’s fear that the Oklahoma Shawnee will manage to establish a casino in Ohio, or perhaps our ability to use past treaty deficiencies to bring action against the state legally. We have no such present intention nor do we desire to support like action.
However, we are seriously considering legal remedy to the irreparable harm done to our good name and reputation. At the very least, on behalf of the people of the Shawnee Nation, United Remnant Band, I demand a complete retraction of the lies stated and also demand an apology in the media from the Ohio Attorney General’s Office, from the United States Mint, and from the Indian Arts and Crafts Board.
Chief Hawk Pope, Principal Chief
Shawnee Nation, United Remnant Band of Ohio
Just to let you know this is a jerry pope press release so don't be so inclinEd to believe every thing he blabs on about..
By The Way
SCORE ONE FOR THE US MINT!!
Things are really looking rough for this cult especially when their leader has to write a plea on their website to ask or beg for donations from the public.
Classic examples of snake oil sales men down on their luck to make a buck.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ-pGbgoW30
Youtube version of jerry popes call for help for money donations.
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The Ohio Attorney General's Office say they do not have recognition. And as far as I can find the State does not have a general criteria for State recognition.
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The Ohio Attorney General's Office say they do not have recognition. And as far as I can find the State does not have a general criteria for State recognition.
You are absolutely correct! All they have like many other groups in Ohio is made up documents to fool the ignorant. It worked though,fooled a-lot of people and even their own members.
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If you haven't checked their so called website..
http://www.zaneshawneecaverns.net/PressRelease.shtml
Check out the press release. Jerry just can't stop lying out of his butt and on top of that look at the scanned in images below his rant.
See the madness will never stop. This shows how desperate and dumbfounded they are , take a silly piece of paper from the state that recognized ceremonially and turn it into a state recognized paper.
GO Figure! then again its Jerry's M.O.
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Keely-I never tattle on people who are trying to help There were some who thought you lived in Indiana, (I could not remember where you lived or even if you had said where) but was not highly concerned over how you felt about this situation... the people really did not "lie" about you... they just thought you taught at the same university at Thom, and never stated such as fact... and it was made clear they were not sure... Sorry if I did not make that clear in my last post...
Thom should be concerned though... his wife has been known to be a huge part of the former URP/URB group out of Ohio, that group was forced to remove their claim of being state recognized, they got into some trouble with the State of Ohio for making this fraudulant claim It has been documented that this group did have convicted child molestors involved, and that females of all ages were REQUIRED to be nude from the waist up... now I sure would not want my daughter around convicted molestors, and certainly not partially nude! But I had also heard from a former Police officer from the state of Ohio that he came upon Jerry Pope with a young girl of about 13... the young girl was nude, Jerry was not "nude" but the officer made his presence known, Jerry began to fumble (the officer believed it was his pants zipper" exclaiming "This is not what you think it is!!"
Thoms wife, has claimed in the past that she and Jerry Pope are as brother and sister... I am sure Thom would like to see a sworn statement about his "adopted" brother in law??
Thom wants to screw around with me... he done barked up the wrong Indian...
I have learned that he and his wife do have a horse ranch, what breed of horses I am not sure.. but Arabians are the most expensive horses to show, and promote..
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I have learned that he and his wife do have a horse ranch, what breed of horses I am not sure.. but Arabians are the most expensive horses to show, and promote..
Most of the high dollar Arabs are syndicated and corporate owned but there is a lot of small backyard breeders since the market crash and many Arabs going through the small auctions now since breeders are losing their shirts.
It is very expensive to own any horse ranch though, and since there is no profit in horses any more most ranch owners, unless independently wealthy, have alternate sources of income.
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Who is Dark Rain Thom? Thats a question a lot of people have been asking for a very long time. We will get to this right now through sources that are indeed reliable.
That said, had DR came out and just stated she was just a Historical Fiction writer, I wouldn't have a problem. But she lied about it all, and has no native blood at all. But she goes around pretending to be native in order to make a mint, and writing such ignorant crap like "Shawnee women in the frontlines fighting naked in battles"...HUH? I am sure if that was true, it would have been noted somewhere by someone at the battle/battles. But because she lies about her family being her "teachers", their are people who buy into it as fact and have quoted her books as being "wonderful work."
Do you feel butterflies in your stomach DR?
I heard from friends of mine who have ran into her that she, out of the spotlight, has Gray Hair and pale skin, but when she walks out for whatever presentation her skin is dark and her hair is jet black.
Wouldn't surprise me there is temporary 3 min hair dye and instant tan now days.
When I was doing the Pope work, an elderly woman in Indiana was working with me to get records, when Pope found out, he threatend this elderly woman... her home was broken into and her papers gone through, she felt that this was Pope's goons seeking the information about Jerry... I took over and told Pope if he thought he was man enough, he could come after me....
Uh-oh! back in the western days thats known as calling somebody out. But you should see now why these groups like URB and the others should be abolished.
Our tribe has been after Claudias information for a long time. Years ago I did Jerry Pope, her former side kick buddy... we traced the Pope family back to Baden Germany... no Indians in his tree... We always knew Claudia was a fraud. It was finding that one link, who her grandparents were, having parents names is a help, but I prefer grandparent names. Claudia has always tried to hide who her family is... she has done this because she knows she is a fraud.
OOps!!!!
I have been in contact with Claudias family and have assured them I am not playing any games with them. Claudias game has gone on for too long. She is a culture vulture.
Double OOps!!!
Well lets take a look at what Claudia {DarkRain} has been talking about over a roots web , this should be interesting! ! LOL!!
"I too am very interested in the Montana Cahill clan. I have found a branch of Cahills also in South Dakota that intrigues me because over 30 names listed in the index are the same as one of my lines from Ohio. I Bhad a grandfather Henry Cahill who traveled a great deal all over the world. We know of 2 other families he had and I am very curious about these western Cahill's. It is known he "coyboyed" there last 1800's and early 1900's. I would be delighted to share my information with other branches of related Cahill's I have been searching our branches since 1968."
"I have an ancestor who changed his name to Cachel Boring from Sylvester Cahill. I have yet to find ANY records of his death or burial place. He was a Civil War soldier from Ohio. He lived near Waverly, Omega and Higby. any further information would be greatly appreciated, been searching for him for 40 years."
"I am curious about the clarification that these Cahill's were white. I have seen other genealogical related lines make that declarations also, but that was in the 1830's when people were making a "determination" to be recognized as Indian or White, many were listed as mulatto on the census because of their dark skin and black hair. Just curious. Thanks."
http://boards. rootsweb. com/authorposts. aspx?uname= claudia+cahill&uid=&uem=dbQO5DfVV888K0K Dv-0QVD&rurl=http%3a% 2f%2fboards. rootsweb. com%2fsurnames. cahill%2f13. 51%2fmb.ashx
Yeah I know , not that interesting but wait..Trust me Dark Rain or Claudia is not so bright.
"I have an ancester, Gottlieb/Gottleib Schwarz/Schwartz who came from Baden. or Prussia..(.I apologize I do NOT know my German geography), he arrived in America around 1846 and lived in Pike County, Ohio with his 3 children; Henry b-June 1835, Carl b-1840, and Teresa b-1844. There has been no mention of his wife, and I have no information as to the ship they arrived on nor their exact location in Germany. They lived in Waverly, Ohio on Prussia Pike with other German families. If this is your line I have more to share. In any response please mention genealogy or I won't open it. There were 2 Carl Schwartz in the same unit in the Civil War...one had a mother in Florida. Upon examining their photographs I am convinced they are the same person...
hope this helps some."
"I am interested in Cahill's of West Virginia...I have a Denis Cahill who married in Berkley Springs about 1806. Any one with West Virginia connections I would love to share some information. "
http://boards. rootsweb. com/SearchResult s.aspx?db= mb&gss=ancMB&hc=10&rank=0&adv=&p=&csn=&cst=&gskw=ClanGeah&_F00029CB=&_F00027E2=&period=&_80004003=&_F0002BF1=
"Going by an e-mail from Claudia Cahill Thom to Charlotte Whalen (4/29/2002) Ernest was murdered by a Lawhorn son other than one who's mother was Mary French."
http://worldconnect .rootsweb. com/cgi-bin/ igm.cgi?op= GET&db=dcmolder&id=I24176
http://worldconnect .rootsweb. com/cgi-bin/ igm.cgi?op= GET&db=lizcolestock&id=I6286
Gottlieb Schwartz in the 1800's...."Stonebur ner" which was actually Steinbrenner
http://worldconnect .rootsweb. com/cgi-bin/ igm.cgi?op= GET&db=aubreys_tree&id=I020
Now to prove Dark Rains real name is Claudia Cahill.
http://archiver. rootsweb. com/th/read/ CAHILL/2003- 09/1062799449
From: ClanGeah@aol. com
Subject: Re: [CAHILL] Re: Two Laura Cahill's in Ohio
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 18:04:09 EDT
Randy I am a distant cousin..what was John's middle name? You used the
initital W. I have found his younger brother Henry's middle name.in an obscure
record but not John's.
I believe you knew my parents who lived in Las Vegas Nevada. I knew both your
grand mother Laura and your Mom and Dad.
Claudia Cahill-Thom
Naomi Boyd Cahill (Social Security)
NAOMI L CAHILL 04 Mar 1925 01 Jun 1995 89101 (Las Vegas, Clark, NV) (none specified) 286-24-0517 Ohio
Henry Cahill (Social Security)...
Henry CAHILL
Birth Date: 8 Nov 1887
Death Date: Jan 1969
Social Security Number: 302-03-9428
State or Territory Where Number Was Issued: Ohio
Death Residence Localities
ZIP Code: 45601
Localities: Brownsville, Ross, Ohio
Chillicothe, Ross, Ohio
Hopetown, Ross, Ohio
Kinnickinnick, Ross, Ohio
Maple Grove, Ross, Ohio
Massieville, Ross, Ohio
Metzger, Ross, Ohio
Mooresville, Ross, Ohio
Pleasant Valley, Ross, Ohio
Tucson, Ross, Ohio
Vigo, Ross, Ohio
Yellow Bud, Ross, Ohio
Cleo Cahill (Social Security)...
CLEO CAHILL 27 Apr 1920 Nov 1986 89101 (Las Vegas, Clark, NV) (none specified) 271-14-3348 Ohio
Cleo CAHILL
Birth Date: 27 Apr 1920
Death Date: Nov 1986
Social Security Number: 271-14-3348
State or Territory Where Number Was Issued: Ohio
Death Residence Localities
ZIP Code: 89101
Localities: Federal, Clark, Nevada
Las Vegas, Clark, Nevada
More from DR's mouth ---
"I had a Grandmother who was Wyandot and was an herbal healer. Her Great Great Grandmother is buried in one of the mounds down there. "
Totally unlikely, not just because of the mounds, but I can find nothing on Cahill, Schwartz, or Boyd even suggesting Wyandot. Her mother's parents are still unknown, but still highly unlikely.
"On my Mother's side of the family, her father was a Cherokee. My oldest Aunt married a Cherokee medicine man. He was quite elderly when they married but I was privileged to be taught by him for several years. So, I have mixed blood. If you're looking at me, I have blue eyes from an Irishman back in the 1730s. I have absolutely no qualms about who I am or where I stack up in the stratosphere of tribal people because I know the culture I was taught. I know the religion I was taught. I know the traditions I was taught and I have always known who I am. My Great Grandmother as well as my grandmother and my Father always made sure that I knew who I was and who I came from. So, I have lots of teachings that I learned from all of them. "
She learned how to lie is about all she learned...The Boyd lines I can find in Ross County Ohio mention nothing of Cherokee. Earliest Boyd in Ross county traces back to Scotland to a James Boyd, b. 1718 in Kilmarnock Scotland, married to a Mary ?, b. 1720...most likely born in Scotland. Their son John Boyd was born in 1767, Uniontown, Fayette Co. Pennsylvania and married a Mary Smith b. abt. 1791, married in Hillsboro Ohio (where I was born). Daughter Catherine Boyd moved to the Ross Co. Ohio area, where quite a few other Boyd's later lived...most likely related.
Leoma/Leona Irene Cahill married 3 times, so the so-called Cherokee Medicine Man would be one of the three listed on the email I sent where I found Claudia's parent's (real) names and dates.
So that would be German, Irish, Scottish right?
"My Father was the one who was actually my spiritual teacher. We lived in a town about 90 miles away from my Grandmother, so we were down there two or three days a week because my Father supported them, and helped garden. He was my spiritual teacher; he taught me my place in the universe. We not only need to know who we are, but we need to understand our place in the universe. He's the one that helped me to understand my connection with what the other people would call nature, the other nations of creation. "
Interesting that she states her family made sure she knew who she "was" and where "she came from" while she is found online asking questions back almost 10 years ago concerning her ancestors and their race.
She knew her family tree included German, Irish, Scottish and English, along with distant Cherokee and Wyandot? But all the while she was growing up, she was unaware it was the Shawnee tradition she was being taught??
"At that time, it was still hazardous to your health for your neighbors to know who you were," she said. "They would burn you out once. The second time, they would kill you and your family. So they didn't tell children. You had to be mature before any of the elders would tell you."
WHAT???
She was unaware because it doesn't exist! LOL!!
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Even her own bio makes you wonder how she became Shawnee when she claims Cherokee and Wyandot. Covers it up using Alqonquin. Throws in some Creek, always suprised she left out the Lenape'. www.turtleislandstorytellers.net/tis_ohio_indiana/transcript01_dr_thom.htm
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On my Mother's side of the family, her father was a Cherokee. My oldest Aunt married a Cherokee medicine man.
Oh boy! everyone has one of those in their family!
This should be obvious as ever Claudia has no real education of the Cherokee. Finding a Cherokee Medicine man is like finding an honest politician!
Cherokee medicine man claim is bogus , how can a Cherokee medicine man be in her ancestry when there really is no Cherokee medicine man at all? In fact , doesn't indeed the medicines etc , come from the females and not the males?
Further more Cahill's never did have any assimilated native blood in their families.
Yup Claudia has definitely pulled the biggest bag of B.S. out of her south end of a horse going north.
Now I'm waiting to see how Cora"Tula" Watters and the rest fit into this salad bowl of a mess. From what I hear , Tula and Claudia have been plottin and schemeing.
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It's very frustrating and irritating, isn't it?
Suzan has all the papers documenting Jerry Pope's long history of cons.
Jerry's removal as "Chief" by the members of the Shawnee Nation United Remnant Band is a matter of public record.
One problem here is to find a US or Ohio law that can be used.
Another problem is finding enough money to do the research and to hire the lawyers so that Jerry meets his fate.
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I received some information, an account that what Jerry Pope and the Thoms are doing may even be worse than previously thought. There seems to be a very dramatic split betweent the Shawnee URB and the three of them.
The Thoms and Pope then formed a corporation the Shawnee United Remant Band BUSINESS GROUP INC which tried to transfer land once under the Shawnee URB and sell it and keep the funds.
It seems this was land that was intended for use to rebury ancestors' remains they would have received (or hoped to have received) under NAGPRA.
The next step is to track down the records for this and post them online for all to see.
Also we need to get Keely in on this, since she knows more about Pope and the Thoms than anyone.
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can't hide from me
Shawnee Nation United Remnant Band
7092 State Rte 540
Bellefontaine, OH 43311
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GENERAL INFORMATION
Contact: Mr. Jeffrey Stevenson, Financial Advisor
Telephone: (937) 592-9592
Web Site: www.zaneshawneecaverns.net
Who We Are
The Shawnee Nation United Remnant Band is Ohio's only State recognized historical tribe of Native Americans descended from historic Ohio Shawnee People.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This organization is a 501(c)(3) Public Charity .
This organization is required to file an IRS Form 990 or 990-EZ.
Additional narrative information in this report was last supplied by the organization on January 10, 2008.
Contributions are deductible, as provided by law.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How to Help
This organization is seeking funds from contributions and grants. These funds will be used for unrestricted operating expenses, special projects, building improvements and endowments.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Location(s) Served
Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, West Virginia, and Michigan
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EIN: You must be a GuideStar Select or Premium subscriber to view this information.
Year Founded: 1813
Ruling Year: 1979
Fiscal Year: You must be a GuideStar Premium subscriber to view this information.
Assets: You must be a GuideStar Premium subscriber to view this information.
Income: You must be a GuideStar Select or Premium subscriber to view this information.
No. of Board Members: 26
No. of Full-Time Employees: 0
No. of Part-Time Employees: 0
No. of Volunteers: 0
Chief Executive
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PEOPLE
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MISSION AND PROGRAMS
Mission
To educate the public regarding the history and traditions of the Shawnee people and share the culture and religion of modern Shawnee society.
Programs
The Shawnee Nation United Remnant Band operates a Eastern Woodland Native American museum, maintains a historic Native American village and pioneer settlement, and helps to preserve the rich Shawnee history, tradition and religion by holding ceremony and offering semi-annual Pow Wows.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GOALS AND RESULTS
Accomplishments for Fiscal Year Ending December 31, 2007
Senate Proclamation officially reaffirming the Shawnee Nation United Remnant Band as Ohio's only State recognized Tribe of Native Americans.
Ohio House of Representatives Commendation officially recognizing Shawnee Nation United Remnant Band as Ohio's only State recognized Tribe of Native Americans.
Objectives for Fiscal Year Beginning January 1, 2008
Project NATIVE
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mmm not good at hiding eh
shawnee nation united remnant band
3548 tawawa maplewood rd
sidney, oh 45365
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caverns web page
http://www.zaneshawneecaverns.net/
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D., Jerry was really good at what he did:
http://www.cs.org/publications/CSQ/csq-article.cfm?id=387
You can see how people were ready to be taken in: people trying to fill that hole left in their lives from their family's hiding, ready to believe Jerry.
It was only when Jerry sold parts of Shawandasse that they began to question what he had told them, and the truth about him was learned by many. They tried to remove him as chief, but by then the Shawnee Nation United Remnant Band Business Group Inc had already been set up and assets transferred.
As I understand it, re-internments at Shawandasse had already occurred.
D., Jerry is not going to be stopped via an internet search. It's going to take legal research and lawyers to straighten out the affairs in Ohio. That's the only way that violations of Federal and State law could be brought to bear.
Those who left formed the East of the River Shawnee, and a DNA check and a genealogical check are required for full membership.
-
Those who left formed the East of the River Shawnee, and a DNA check and a genealogical check are required for full membership.
Applicants applying for membership to the East of the River Shawnee Tribe,
or as affiliates in Megis Society,
Allied Tribes, and Friends of the East of the River Shawnee Tribe,
must submit a written Letter of Intent to the Nation’s Mother
at the appropriate Tribal High Council meeting. All persons,
upon placing their Letter of Intent with the East of the River Shawnee Tribe,
are required to sign a background Release of Information Form.
The East of the River Shawnee Tribe’s Tribal High Council
has the right to refuse membership or affiliation to anyone for just cause
and/or to anyone who has been convicted of a felony and/or
any illegal substance related convictions.
Persons added to the membership of the East of the River Shawnee Tribe
must be of (1/64) one-sixty fourth Native American Heritage, which must
include Shawnee blood, or be able to be identified to a Shawnee ancestor.
After the reading of a Letter of Intent to become a member of
The East of the River Shawnee Tribe, or to be accepted as an affiliate
to Megis Society, Allied Tribes, or Friends of the East of the River Shawnee Tribe,
an applicant must serve a (2) two year probationary period
to include genealogical research (for Tribal membership) and Tribal participation.
Any person claiming Native American ancestry for the purpose of establishing
the classification of their Tribal membership to the
East of the River Shawnee Tribe, shall provide credible proof
of such ancestry to the Tribal High Council. Such proof may consist
of birth or genealogical records, membership of ancestors on
Native American Tribal Rolls, family photographs, notarized statements
by elder relatives, and triangulation and path of migration.
At the time of acceptance of said petitioner as a member
of the East of the River Shawnee Tribe,
their minor descendants shall also be accepted as a member
Of the East of the River Shawnee Tribe,
if these minor descendants meet the
East of the River Shawnee Tribe’s membership requirements.
Although East of the River Shawnee Tribe members may have different
Native American heritage, all the East of the River Shawnee Tribe’s
members shall uphold Shawnee heritage, culture and traditions
above all other Native American heritage, culture and traditions.
Citizenship within (2) two or more Native American heritage tribes
is prohibited within the East of the River Shawnee Tribe.
Membership in The East of the River Shawnee Tribe by Tribal Adoption.
By vote of Tribal High Council, a person may be adopted as a
Tribal member into the East of the River Shawnee Tribe
from the Megis Society, Allied Tribes, or Friends of the Tribe population.
This exception to the membership requirements
of (1/64) one-sixty fourth Native American heritage of said adoptee
and may be granted with approval and (2/3) two-thirds vote of
East of the River Shawnee Tribe’s Tribal High Council
Megis Society.
Megis Society is for an unrelated individual researching their ancestry,
or those persons who may be of the nuclear family
(legal spouse and/or minor children who may or may not be related by blood)
of a Tribal member, but are presently not known to be eligible for
East of the River Shawnee Tribe membership.
The individual(s) must submit a letter of intent to the
East of the River Shawnee Tribe’s Tribal High Council,
at an appropriate Tribal High Council meeting requesting
affiliation into Megis Society. Individual(s) are required to sign
a background release of information form.
The East of the River Shawnee Tribe has the right to refuse affiliation
to anyone with just cause and/or who has been convicted
of a felony and/or illegal substance conviction.
Allied Tribes
Any Allied Tribes affiliate must be of at least (1/64) one sixty fourth
Native American blood, or identified to a Native American ancestor.
The individual (s) must submit a letter of intent to the
East of the River Shawnee Tribe’s Tribal High Council,
at an appropriate Tribal High Council meeting requesting affiliation
into Allied Tribes. Individual(s) are required to sign a
background release of information form.
The East of the River Shawnee Tribe has the right to refuse affiliation
to anyone with just cause and/or who has been convicted of a felony
and/or illegal substance conviction. Allied Tribes affiliates may attend,
as nonvoting participants, any open Tribal High Council meetings
or open meetings of known or related Clans,
if agreeable to a majority of the voting members of said clan.
Participation in ceremony however, will be by invitation only,
issued by any tribal member. Allied Tribes affiliates shall not
hold an elected and/or appointed Tribal governing position.
Friends of the East of the River Shawnee Tribe
Any person whether Native American or not, with written declaration
of Tribal High Council may become affiliated as a Friends of
The East of the River Shawnee Tribe after submitting a letter of intent to
Tribal High Council at an appropriate Tribal High Council meeting
requesting affiliation into Friends of the East of the River Shawnee Tribe,
and will be welcome to attend all Tribal functions. Individual(s)
are required to sign a background release of information form.
The East of the River Shawnee Tribe has the right to refuse affiliation to
anyone with just cause and/or who has been convicted of a felony
and/or illegal substance conviction. Ceremony participation however,
will be by invitation only, issued by any tribal member.
Friends of the East of the River Shawnee Tribe affiliates may attend,
as nonvoting participants any open Tribal High Council meeting.
Friends of the East of the River Shawnee Tribe affiliates shall not
hold an elected and/or appointed Tribal governing position.
Got this right off their website which is now under construction , nothing said about a DNA check
Seems to be a bit crazy having all these catagories for membership , the 2 year probation period is very Jerry Popeish in nature , If I recall right from the old URB website , you were also put on a 2 year probationary period to join the URB.. Ehh .. EOR stinks just as bad as URB... Lets not forget , Old Claudi Cahill-Thom is a Clan Mother of the EOR.. Yup it really smells doesn't it ?
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If you noticed, the 2 years is for the genealogical check. That's how long it takes - the DNA check by itself will not limit itself to Shawnee heritage, but could come from another people, Cherokee for example.
It's strange about DNA and ancestry: mitochondrial DNA is only passed by women, and passed remains intact, while men contribute to the Y DNA. So which DNA percentage is most relevant? mt DNA or Y DNA? As intermarriage continues, this will be an issue that many peoples will have to address within a generation or two.
In any case, I understand that Jerry Pope's percentages are .00%, and that's why the rigorous check is now in place.
I'm surprised to learn that its as small as 1/64 for membership, but then that's one ancestor six generations ago - say roughly from around 1752, when the hiding began.
Megis cover adopted children and children from earlier marriages.
Given the immensity of the problem with Jerry Pope, I won't comment about Thom, other than to say that her understanding of Shawnee traditions is just plain wrong. As I understand it, she wrote some romance novels that did pretty well... and I really know nothing else about her than what you've posted here.
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MP (Moma Porcupine} did a lot for information on DNA. http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1375.0
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Interesting Read. [Big Smile]
TO THE WOMEN OF THE SHAWNEE NATION, URBFROM CHIEF HAWK
Autumn Buffalo and (according to her e-mail yesterday) Dark Rain have called a Womens Council to decide whether or not to remove me as your Principal Chief. The e-mail says it is May 6th, the day before the REAL Spring Council. However, an informant tells me this meeting is this coming weekend.....hoping a certain someone doesnot show up?This action (not meeting as Womens Council, but the intention of voting to remove me as Principal Chief) is in violation of our Constitution of our Nation, not to mention it is in violation of my civil rights as a citizen of the United States and the Shawnee URB. Therefore, anyone who chooses to participate in this is automatically in violation of our Constitution and in US law. Note: Read your constitution- Womens Council has NO AUTHORITY to remove anyone from any position, ever. We are not Iroquois. Any vote of removal of anyone is the business of Full Council. A person being charged of a crime has the right to be present and to defend him/herself and call upon witnesses on his/her behalf. I will not attend this
but I will have someone there to take names of those who do participate in the action. This action is just another BLOWING OF SMOKE by cowards who are trying to get rid of me BEFORE Spring Council can deal with THEIR TREACHERY AND DECEIT. These people just love to do their dirt behind my back instead of face me.....Never in the history that any alive remembers have a few People tried and almost succeeded in giving away OUR SHAWNEE LAND. For their own totally selfish reasons, they tried in every way they knew to force Foreclosure. If they had succeeded, the Shawnee People would have lost nearly everything. This is the dictionary definition of Treason! All involved will be dealt with appropriate to our Constitution. They have been using panic and have created fear to drive their agenda since the Fall Councile last year and they just keep escalating this with their actions and their vicious lies mostly by e-mail. Their biggest issue is the reimbursement check issue. All they have are copies of these checks. They do not have proof that the money was spent for inappropriate reasons. Calling me a Thief is pockvano and will also be dealt with. Some of you have only known me for a few years; some of you have known me for as much as 30 years, but you ALL should know that I couldnt possibly be guilty of stealing from the People. It makes no sense for me to bleed to death what I have spent my whole adult life building. Why would I fight so hard to keep leading the People during this horrible time and situation they have created? Remember, I have had no access to any business money for a whole year now. This whole thing isnt about me at all.... that is just their attempt to divert attention away from their own crimes! They have violated the Tribes constitution at least 5 times so far, standing practice rules of Council 4 times so far, and the Bylaws of the Board of Directors at least 4 times so far and I believe they are just getting started. The work of the Investigative Committee I formed in December is on-going. These folks have an unbelievable disregard for Tribal laws, traditions and common decency.Stop and look at the Whole Picture! Keep in mind that all the e-mails, all the turmoil, all the accusations, all the lies and deceit- they are only diversions to what is really going on behind the scenes. Theses methods are being used to confuse and confound; these methods are being used to whip everybody into a frenzy of being angry and to raise suspicion and doubt. QUESTION EVERYTHING! DONT JUST QUESTION THEIR HALF-TRUTHS AND OUTRIGHT LIES ABOUT ME!Just suppose the Caverns was Foreclosed upon by the bank and the property went to a Sheriffs Sale. This would mean that our land would be sold for pennies on the dollar. Then, just suppose a predetermined buyer purchased our land for this huge discount price.The land would then become PRIVATELY OWNED land of this buyer, If that were to happen, this buyer could capitalize on 8 1/2 years of hard work THE SHAWNEE PEOPLE have all done for the Caverns. This buyer would run our Caverns as private owners AND WOULD MAKE A NICE PROFIT FOR THEMSELVES- putting money in their own pockets! Shawnee People I ask you to open your eyes and see THE WHOLE PICTURE! Did you know that we have a person in the Tribe who offered to purchase Shawandasse supposedly to save it for us? This same person tried to purchase the Caverns before we did! Another person in our Tribe has mentioned that they would like to purchase the Caverns. They want it for themselves, and I believe these folks have made promises to other Tribal people- Tribal position promises and employment promises if they would only do whatever they possibly could to destroy me and remove me as Principal Chief.Shawnee People, dont do anything else to contribute to this rush toward Ruin of our Shawnee Tribe and the possibility of wealth for a few from all our hard work and our land! Please think about all I have said. There are TWO SIDES to every story and I know you will find the truth when you come to Spring Council on May 7th. Actions from this Womens Council will hold no legitimacy in our Spring Council. Im asking all RIGHT-THINKING women of our Great Shawnee Nation to decline from going to this Womens Council; you will only hear a one-sided conglomeration of lies, half-truths, slanted truths, and wild accusations that will all be brought out at Spring Council. This council is an attempted denial of my basic human rights. These women are only trying to do all of this wretched mischief just a few days before I go back on tour to make a living for my family. This mess must end at Spring Council. It will all come out and you will be shown the TRUTH! YOU can stop this! Love, Hawk
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you folks are doing a fantastic job/service here!