Manfred Jobst (aka Wacha Nabi)

[wacha nabi]

oh you know soooo much.

i can`t stop till the grandfathers tell me to stop.
it`s my way and i really invested much. not even money much more sweat, pain and blood.


the only one who thinks in former western terms is you.
i live now not yesterday. and now is time for toleranz not to stay in past.
in this way its ok for me if yxou call me fraud. because i know what i am, not you !!!

[Freija]

oh you know soooo much.

i can`t stop till the grandfathers tell me to stop.

Have you ever wondered why these grandfathers are telling you to hurt and disrespect thousands of Native Americans?

[wacha nabi]

i hurt nobody.
i do all with respect.

[educatedindian]

oh you know soooo much.

i can`t stop till the grandfathers tell me to stop.
it`s my way and i really invested much. not even money much more sweat, pain and blood.


the only one who thinks in former western terms is you.
i live now not yesterday. and now is time for toleranz not to stay in past.
in this way its ok for me if yxou call me fraud. because i know what i am, not you !!!

You just proved my point. You used the word "I" and "me" so much, more than half a dozen times. You don't care about Natives.

You only care about yourself and don't care who you harm, or what lies you tell, even to yourself.

"Grandfathers" are not speaking to you. You are hearing the echoes of your own wishes, which you imagine are something else.

And yes, you do nothing but harm. You harm the tribe you falsely claim to be doing the ways of. You harm all Natives by your falsehoods. And you harm those you do ceremony for, by giving them a false version.

I also think that sooner or later you will physically or mentally harm someone with your very dangerous false version of a sweatlodge. You don't know what you are doing.

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

i hurt nobody.
i do all with respect.

You are hurting people, they have spoken and stated so, yet you do not hear their voices.  You are dis respecting those same people, and the generations that came before them.. yet, you do not hear their voices.

You hear your own voice saying it's ok because of 'you'.  Because 'you' think, 'you' feel, 'you' believe.  It's all about you, and no one else.

I am not NA but my eyes are opening to what community means.  Community is not I, Me or Mine.  It matters not what 'you' are wanting..  if the community is in opposition.  In this case, the *real* native community is in opposition.. if you respected the beliefs you are tampering with you would honor that opposition, and not continue on because of 'me, my, mine' attitude.  

I seriously doubt any NA grandfathers would be telling you to carry forward and ignore the voices of the community to which they belong, and .. of which you are taking..

You do not see or hear the harm/hurt you are creating.. you are deaf and blind.  

[E.P. Grondine]

The pathology is interesting.

[NDN_Outlaw]

Where is Manfred's mentor Small Legs in all of this? He certainly hasn't rushed to Manfred's defense. Perhaps he is laying low until all this passes over. I wonder what Small Leg's people would think of him passing Manfred Piegan/ Blackfoot Confederacy ceremony. Manfred was your pipe passed to you by Small Legs? Was the sweat lodge also passed to you by him? Who else has ceremony been passed to over there? Do you pass pipes to others. You say you work with spirit. It is one thing to believe and quite another to know.

[Cetan]

Jobst is a prime example of why so many peaople are against allowing any nons to attend any ceremony. However he will not listen and seems to enjoy the attention so I think the warning has been made about him, now just ignore him.

[wacha nabi]

you always show with you fingers against others. look 3  fingers look back to you.
maybe i wirte often i or me. please think about, i`m no native english speaker.
and i give hear my opion, i don`t speak for others like you. let them speak for them self.
you always judges, only what you says is right.

in germany we say " kehre erst vor deiner tür"  that means before you start to judge look at your own things.

you tell me that i lies. look in your own heart.
the creator will read mine.  and not you.
thats enough for me.

i show him my respect and every person on this earth.   but i don`t show respect for intoleranz and judging in your way (not all of you here).

wish you the best.

ho

wacha nabi

[earthw7]

Here on the reservation were life is hard for the people
Our lives are even harder when people like this continue
to abuse our culture. He hurts all of us and just like a
Euro-german-man he believes he is right no matter
what, he claims he is following the creator just like
hilter. He can not see his hand in front of him killing
the people.
wacha nabi you are doing wrong

[wacha nabi]

just like who?  hilter? who is this?

[NDN_Outlaw]

Manfred was your pipe passed to you by Small Legs? Was the sweat lodge also passed to you by him? Who else has ceremony been passed to over there? Do you pass pipes to others. [/quote]

Could you please answer these questions

[wacha nabi]

if i tell you from whom i got all this gifts what will you do?
call him fraud?

indictly this was given from the grandfathers.

directly you don`t have to know because

i see what witch hunt you do here.

[earthw7]

This is not a witch hunt it started as
question and you did not answer and
yes we have the right to question you.
The native ways is if we ask how and why
you have to tell us, if you do not then
you do not have the right to these things
and we can take them from you.

Each man must tell the people which ceremony
was performed to obtain the gifts and how many times
and who taught him, who gave him the pipe, who did
the ceremony to get these rights and how many times.

The problem with all of this is there is a way to do these things
and this way is a thousand years old.
When we ask and you will not tell us
that means you don't have the right and that you are
a fraud.

[earthw7]

I also just seen a picture of you on the web
you are just a young man how can you do
this??