Author Topic: Cherokee Blackfoot Cultural Circle  (Read 47406 times)

Offline Ingeborg

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Re: Cherokee Blackfoot Cultural Circle
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2008, 02:50:15 pm »
I beg to differ:
Quote
The Lithuanians were Indo-Iranian (Cimmerians). The Latvians were  Finno-Urgic.

Lithuanians, Latvians, and Prus belong(ed) to the Baltic subgroup of Indo-European languages. Quite incidentially, the Latvians' names of their traditional gods are very closely related to the names of the Prussian gods (which my grandfather told me about), e.g. Prussian 'Perkunos' and Latvian
'Perkunas'.
The Finno-Ugric language group in that region is represented by Finnish and Estonian.
Prussian is regarded an archaic language which kept some forms also found in Sanskrit.

Quote
The originial Prussians were the  "Prusi"( Finno-Urgic) who were nomadic raiders who also "went Viking". Wends and Poles (Slavic) farmers came in later and a trade interchange began.
The original Prus (pronounced like 'prooss'), or 'Prusai' in their own language, were not nomadic nor raiders by the time the colonization began, nor were they Finno-Ugric. They were farming the land and keeping animals. A different, but related tribe, the Curonians, made a living on fishing; there are still Curonians living in the area of the Curonian Lagoon. They still exist, live in the same place, and their boats still have the same characteristic looks. They are related to the Prus linguistically.
Agriculture, however, was how the Prus won their living, with fields owned collectively. The Prus were organized in twelve tribes acting autonomously, and their languages apparently differed, as some of them are classified as East Baltic while others are West Baltic.
A trade interchange already existed in the times of the Roman Empire which imported amber from the Prus.

The Wends did not get into Prussia. 'Wends' is a term for a multitude of Slavic peoples living in regions later on conquered by the Germans when they crossed the river Elbe, and it is also the name of a Slavic remnant population living in North Germany at the river Elbe still today. Historically, there was a Slavic population of several tribes from South of Kiel along the Baltic Sea to Pomerania. This Slavic population still exist today and some of them have a minority status (e.g. the Sorbs South-East of Berlin, with approx 30,000 speakers of the Sorbic language). Another tribe still around today are the Kashubians in Poland with approx 50,000 speakers of their original (Slavic) language.

As to your claim the Prus 'went Viking' - if that is to say they were plundering and pillaging seafarers: no way.
The description of the Prus as 'nomadic raiders' is about as truthful and based on facts as the similar decription of ndn nations - raiding is not all that sufficient and profitable a job when it comes to the survival of an entire population who want their meals somewhat regularly.

Quote
The Prusi stoutly refused to be coverted to Catholicism and after a 4 decade war were anniliated. Survivors were absorbed by the Wends and Poles.
Nope. Prussian was a spoken language until about 1750 which is quite a bit longer than four decades after the begin of the conquest. The population did not become extinct but exists beyond that date which merely indicates the point in time when the language was no longer used in every-day life. The Prus were not annihilated as a people, but lost their land and political autonomy, they were assimilated.

Not all Prus refused to become Catholic. There is one region, called 'Ermland'/Warmia, which was predominantly Catholic as compared to the rest of the Prus country which turned predominantly Protestant. Furthermore, although the towns founded did not accept Prus, Lithuanians, etc as inhabitants, the rural population was predominantly Prussian for several centuries; while at first they were able to keep their lands unconditionally, later on the possession of land was only possible for converts.
After four decades of Prussian fight against the Knights, the Prus were defeated militarily, and it is said that only 50% of the original population were left. It is however unknown how many of the other half was killed and how many wandered off to Lithuania or Latvia.
In fact the Prussian language became extinct with the increased immigration of Protestants from all over Europe to Prussia, and eventually German became the common language. However, the dialect spoken kept Prussian words, and especially family names. The dialect spoken in Prussia until 1945 was a mixture of German dialects with some Prussian and a few Slavic words.

Quote
Prussia than became a German Military State who provided soldiers/ Mercenarys (Landsnecht) to anybody who would have them.
Not quite. The country came under the reign of the Princes of Brandenburg who were Electors (i.e. belonged to the nobility electing the rulers of Germany).
Eventually, one of them became more ambitious and wanted to be a king, so he crowned himself a king in the Prussian town of Koenigsberg (i.e. 'King's Mountain, today Kaliningrad). However, the title was not accepted by the German nobility, so the title originally was 'King *in* Prussia', i.e. they had the right to call themselves king only when in their Prussian domain. Some time during the 18th century, this was changed to King of Prussia.

One of them in fact did earn the byname of 'Soldier King', but not for selling and providing mercenaries, but for building a huge army. In fact he *bought* soldiers all over Europe, or had his agents abduct persons, especially men of more than 1,80 metres which were forced to join his special units of so-called 'tall guys'.

There were German states which sold mercenaries to anyone able to pay and in need of an army, but Prussia did not belong to them.

Quote
The Prussians ( who were Lutheran) later only minimally supported the Nazis  ( who were staunch Catholics) and the "Nazi hotbed myth" was spread by the  Russians as a excuse to go in and slaughter them to the last man,woman, and  child. ( see Kalingrad).
Support of the Nazis was - as much as I regret to say this - not less and not more spread than elsewhere in Germany. The Nazis were not staunch Catholics (in fact, some of them tried to 'revive' a Germanic religion, or rather what they took for Germanic spirituality), even though they had an agreement, the so-called Concordate, with the Vatican which was done as a gesture of appeasement. We owe it to these times to pay church taxes to the state still today which then transfers the money to both the Catholic and the Lutheran church (today 8 resp 9% of what you pay in income tax).

The Russians in fact needed no excuse or myth other than what they saw in their home country on their advance as the Nazi army retreated. Campaigns like 'Burnt Ground' had led to the slaughtering of tens of thousands civilians in Russia, in the Ukraina, in Belarus.
However, the remaining Prussian population was *not* slaughtered to the last man, woman, and child. There are still persons of German, Masurian, and Curonian ethnicity living in both parts of Prussia (the North is Russian, the South is Polish). As the Nazis had ordered East Prussia to act as a 'Fortress', the population was forbidden to flee when the Soviet army advanced. The head Nazi in Koenigsberg, by the name of Koch, happened to pack up and escape right after he issued this verdict.... So many tried to make an escape in a desperate last-minute attempt, my family among them. My great-grandmother was killed in a nightly aircraft attack on a treck across the frozen Vistula Lagoon, and my grandmother only survived because she was not allowed on the same cart as g-grandma, at the age of 45 she was supposed to be young and fit enough to walk.
A friend of my father's got lost when his family tried to leave Prussia, he was about 7 years then, and he grew up in an orphanage in the Russian part of Prussia. His family kept looking for him with the help of the Red Cross and found him by the end of the 50ies, so he was allowed to join them in West Germany.

Quote
Never trust the internet for history. Visit a library..........
Which one did you happen to use?

Offline NanticokePiney

  • Posts: 191
Re: Cherokee Blackfoot Cultural Circle
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2008, 02:44:07 am »
I beg to differ:
Quote
The Lithuanians were Indo-Iranian (Cimmerians). The Latvians were  Finno-Urgic.

Lithuanians, Latvians, and Prus belong(ed) to the Baltic subgroup of Indo-European languages. Quite incidentially, the Latvians' names of their traditional gods are very closely related to the names of the Prussian gods (which my grandfather told me about), e.g. Prussian 'Perkunos' and Latvian
'Perkunas'.
The Finno-Ugric language group in that region is represented by Finnish and Estonian.
Prussian is regarded an archaic language which kept some forms also found in Sanskrit.

Quote
The originial Prussians were the  "Prusi"( Finno-Urgic) who were nomadic raiders who also "went Viking". Wends and Poles (Slavic) farmers came in later and a trade interchange began.
The original Prus (pronounced like 'prooss'), or 'Prusai' in their own language, were not nomadic nor raiders by the time the colonization began, nor were they Finno-Ugric. They were farming the land and keeping animals. A different, but related tribe, the Curonians, made a living on fishing; there are still Curonians living in the area of the Curonian Lagoon. They still exist, live in the same place, and their boats still have the same characteristic looks. They are related to the Prus linguistically.
Agriculture, however, was how the Prus won their living, with fields owned collectively. The Prus were organized in twelve tribes acting autonomously, and their languages apparently differed, as some of them are classified as East Baltic while others are West Baltic.
A trade interchange already existed in the times of the Roman Empire which imported amber from the Prus.

The Wends did not get into Prussia. 'Wends' is a term for a multitude of Slavic peoples living in regions later on conquered by the Germans when they crossed the river Elbe, and it is also the name of a Slavic remnant population living in North Germany at the river Elbe still today. Historically, there was a Slavic population of several tribes from South of Kiel along the Baltic Sea to Pomerania. This Slavic population still exist today and some of them have a minority status (e.g. the Sorbs South-East of Berlin, with approx 30,000 speakers of the Sorbic language). Another tribe still around today are the Kashubians in Poland with approx 50,000 speakers of their original (Slavic) language.

As to your claim the Prus 'went Viking' - if that is to say they were plundering and pillaging seafarers: no way.
The description of the Prus as 'nomadic raiders' is about as truthful and based on facts as the similar decription of ndn nations - raiding is not all that sufficient and profitable a job when it comes to the survival of an entire population who want their meals somewhat regularly.

Quote
The Prusi stoutly refused to be coverted to Catholicism and after a 4 decade war were anniliated. Survivors were absorbed by the Wends and Poles.
Nope. Prussian was a spoken language until about 1750 which is quite a bit longer than four decades after the begin of the conquest. The population did not become extinct but exists beyond that date which merely indicates the point in time when the language was no longer used in every-day life. The Prus were not annihilated as a people, but lost their land and political autonomy, they were assimilated.

Not all Prus refused to become Catholic. There is one region, called 'Ermland'/Warmia, which was predominantly Catholic as compared to the rest of the Prus country which turned predominantly Protestant. Furthermore, although the towns founded did not accept Prus, Lithuanians, etc as inhabitants, the rural population was predominantly Prussian for several centuries; while at first they were able to keep their lands unconditionally, later on the possession of land was only possible for converts.
After four decades of Prussian fight against the Knights, the Prus were defeated militarily, and it is said that only 50% of the original population were left. It is however unknown how many of the other half was killed and how many wandered off to Lithuania or Latvia.
In fact the Prussian language became extinct with the increased immigration of Protestants from all over Europe to Prussia, and eventually German became the common language. However, the dialect spoken kept Prussian words, and especially family names. The dialect spoken in Prussia until 1945 was a mixture of German dialects with some Prussian and a few Slavic words.

Quote
Prussia than became a German Military State who provided soldiers/ Mercenarys (Landsnecht) to anybody who would have them.
Not quite. The country came under the reign of the Princes of Brandenburg who were Electors (i.e. belonged to the nobility electing the rulers of Germany).
Eventually, one of them became more ambitious and wanted to be a king, so he crowned himself a king in the Prussian town of Koenigsberg (i.e. 'King's Mountain, today Kaliningrad). However, the title was not accepted by the German nobility, so the title originally was 'King *in* Prussia', i.e. they had the right to call themselves king only when in their Prussian domain. Some time during the 18th century, this was changed to King of Prussia.

One of them in fact did earn the byname of 'Soldier King', but not for selling and providing mercenaries, but for building a huge army. In fact he *bought* soldiers all over Europe, or had his agents abduct persons, especially men of more than 1,80 metres which were forced to join his special units of so-called 'tall guys'.

There were German states which sold mercenaries to anyone able to pay and in need of an army, but Prussia did not belong to them.

Quote
The Prussians ( who were Lutheran) later only minimally supported the Nazis  ( who were staunch Catholics) and the "Nazi hotbed myth" was spread by the  Russians as a excuse to go in and slaughter them to the last man,woman, and  child. ( see Kalingrad).
Support of the Nazis was - as much as I regret to say this - not less and not more spread than elsewhere in Germany. The Nazis were not staunch Catholics (in fact, some of them tried to 'revive' a Germanic religion, or rather what they took for Germanic spirituality), even though they had an agreement, the so-called Concordate, with the Vatican which was done as a gesture of appeasement. We owe it to these times to pay church taxes to the state still today which then transfers the money to both the Catholic and the Lutheran church (today 8 resp 9% of what you pay in income tax).

The Russians in fact needed no excuse or myth other than what they saw in their home country on their advance as the Nazi army retreated. Campaigns like 'Burnt Ground' had led to the slaughtering of tens of thousands civilians in Russia, in the Ukraina, in Belarus.
However, the remaining Prussian population was *not* slaughtered to the last man, woman, and child. There are still persons of German, Masurian, and Curonian ethnicity living in both parts of Prussia (the North is Russian, the South is Polish). As the Nazis had ordered East Prussia to act as a 'Fortress', the population was forbidden to flee when the Soviet army advanced. The head Nazi in Koenigsberg, by the name of Koch, happened to pack up and escape right after he issued this verdict.... So many tried to make an escape in a desperate last-minute attempt, my family among them. My great-grandmother was killed in a nightly aircraft attack on a treck across the frozen Vistula Lagoon, and my grandmother only survived because she was not allowed on the same cart as g-grandma, at the age of 45 she was supposed to be young and fit enough to walk.
A friend of my father's got lost when his family tried to leave Prussia, he was about 7 years then, and he grew up in an orphanage in the Russian part of Prussia. His family kept looking for him with the help of the Red Cross and found him by the end of the 50ies, so he was allowed to join them in West Germany.

Quote
Never trust the internet for history. Visit a library..........
Which one did you happen to use?

 The thunder god was Perun. He was the equivalent of Thor. He was worship by all three ethnic groups in the area. 
   The hotbed of Nazism was Barvaria which in fact consisted of germanized Magyars who beat Otto and settled.
  The Catholic Church ran the "rat lines" which assisted Nazis in escaping into South America and Hitler had his own papal appointed confessor.
   I mixed up the Estonians with the Latvians and made a few other booboos. My mistakes but I am drawing from memory of studies I did in the eighties.
  My stepmother, Margo's mother was crucified to her barn door by the Russian Army. She was Lutheran, and anti-Nazi. I heard about the Vistula Crossing and the attempt to save the Trekkner? horses (My stepmother witness this as a small girl). Hence my interest in the Baltic and Central Europe.
  Your never corrected your statement about the Templars.

 Libraries- PYM,  Swarthmore

 edit: plus hearing all the "glory stories" about the Hussars and horse breeding.
 
« Last Edit: February 06, 2008, 04:19:17 am by NanticokePiney »

Offline Barnaby_McEwan

  • Posts: 861
Re: Cherokee Blackfoot Cultural Circle
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2008, 08:03:23 am »
What does any of this have to do with the thread topic?

Offline NanticokePiney

  • Posts: 191
Re: Cherokee Blackfoot Cultural Circle
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2008, 12:10:29 am »
What does any of this have to do with the thread topic?

 Sorry Barnaby. We both realized this and switched our conversation to PMing.

 Just a note: My source, Otho, Papal Legatus of the Teutonic Knights Order was wrong.   

Offline V Hawkins

  • Posts: 18
Re: Cherokee Blackfoot Cultural Circle
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2008, 04:15:05 pm »
howdy -- I recently posted here (a month or 2 back) and am juts reading responses.

For those who don't know me, I have spent more time trying to debun the term "Cherokee Blackfoot" probably more than anyone on the internet. There are TONS of FAKE Cherokee histories and "tribes" all over the internet, and since Mike Johnson -- my buddy in debunking them -- I recently heard has passed away -- somebody has to continue his fight on line.

This is directed to Earthw7 mostly.  Howdy -- I saw what you said about the Siouan Blackfoot. Once I was behind that "Saponitown forum" that I mentioned, but they get too easily into "guessing" and after "guessing" a few months about some historical effect it becomes to them, a "fact". Once that forum was better than it is now, but they are ostly both White's and Black's "playing at" being Indian, any more. It is one hthing to have a little Indian blood, but it is another to create a fake culture that you were not raised in, and lay a claim to it. I draw a line between having "a little Indian blood" and becoming a spokespeson for a tribal culture I have only read about in history books. They don't make this distinction. Therefore i no longer affiliate myself with them. Is this imposrant? I really don't know if it is important to others, but it is important to me.

They state that these "Eastern Blackfoot", if there ever was such a thing, are Siouan, as the Saponi are related to the Catawba. They say some of these Eastern Siouan peoples may have migratd back West while theirs stayes in the Middle/Southern Appalachians and their eastern slopes. They say the fact that there ARE Siouan people who ARE known as  Blacfoot is strong supporting evidence. As I said, a little evidence to them, after repeating it amongst themselves for a few months, becomes a fact. If you read their website, they mention Siouan words, and say the word Saponi even has its roots in your word for "Blackfoot". I'd like to know if what they say is tue or not. I suspect it is full of half truths and guesses.

This next bit is for Nanticokepiney -- howdy. Did you read my earlier post here about a possible orignin for the term Eastern Blackfoot"? I have done quite a lot of historical research on the term "Eastern Blackfoot" I have found only 2 references -- historical -- to any Eastern Blackfoot and I mentioned both of them in my first post, a month or 2 back.

Now from my research I found the Nanticoke migrating westward and they became pretty much absorbed by the Delaware by the time they were in Indiana. The Delaware went on to Missouri, Kansas and NE Oklahoma (one band went to Arkansas and NE Tx for a while. They are the Delaware Tribe of Western Oklahoma today, based out of Anadaro). But the others are in NE Oklahoma today. The Delawqare migrated westward with other Algonquin groups, Miami and Shawnee and others (including references to the Nanticoke). I never saw any reference to Nanticoke in Oklahoma, however, making me think they were totally absorbed at some time, by the Delaware perhaps between Indiana (where they are mentioned) and Missouri where  have yet to find a reference of the Nanticoke). Have you heard of any "Nanticoke Blackfoot" traditions? If that idea can be put to rest, the whole "Eastern Blackfoot" legend might be put out of its misery, as well.

I am QUITE certain there are NO "Cherokee Blackfoot" -- one more FAKE concept that needs its own trophy on the hall of shame.

vh

Offline earthw7

  • Posts: 1415
    • Standing Rock Tourism
Re: Cherokee Blackfoot Cultural Circle
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2008, 02:10:30 am »
howdy -- I recently posted here (a month or 2 back) and am juts reading responses.

For those who don't know me, I have spent more time trying to debun the term "Cherokee Blackfoot" probably more than anyone on the internet. There are TONS of FAKE Cherokee histories and "tribes" all over the internet, and since Mike Johnson -- my buddy in debunking them -- I recently heard has passed away -- somebody has to continue his fight on line.

This is directed to Earthw7 mostly.  Howdy -- I saw what you said about the Siouan Blackfoot. Once I was behind that "Saponitown forum" that I mentioned, but they get too easily into "guessing" and after "guessing" a few months about some historical effect it becomes to them, a "fact". Once that forum was better than it is now, but they are ostly both White's and Black's "playing at" being Indian, any more. It is one hthing to have a little Indian blood, but it is another to create a fake culture that you were not raised in, and lay a claim to it. I draw a line between having "a little Indian blood" and becoming a spokespeson for a tribal culture I have only read about in history books. They don't make this distinction. Therefore i no longer affiliate myself with them. Is this imposrant? I really don't know if it is important to others, but it is important to me.

They state that these "Eastern Blackfoot", if there ever was such a thing, are Siouan, as the Saponi are related to the Catawba. They say some of these Eastern Siouan peoples may have migratd back West while theirs stayes in the Middle/Southern Appalachians and their eastern slopes. They say the fact that there ARE Siouan people who ARE known as  Blacfoot is strong supporting evidence. As I said, a little evidence to them, after repeating it amongst themselves for a few months, becomes a fact. If you read their website, they mention Siouan words, and say the word Saponi even has its roots in your word for "Blackfoot". I'd like to know if what they say is tue or not. I suspect it is full of half truths and guesses.

This next bit is for Nanticokepiney -- howdy. Did you read my earlier post here about a possible orignin for the term Eastern Blackfoot"? I have done quite a lot of historical research on the term "Eastern Blackfoot" I have found only 2 references -- historical -- to any Eastern Blackfoot and I mentioned both of them in my first post, a month or 2 back.

Now from my research I found the Nanticoke migrating westward and they became pretty much absorbed by the Delaware by the time they were in Indiana. The Delaware went on to Missouri, Kansas and NE Oklahoma (one band went to Arkansas and NE Tx for a while. They are the Delaware Tribe of Western Oklahoma today, based out of Anadaro). But the others are in NE Oklahoma today. The Delawqare migrated westward with other Algonquin groups, Miami and Shawnee and others (including references to the Nanticoke). I never saw any reference to Nanticoke in Oklahoma, however, making me think they were totally absorbed at some time, by the Delaware perhaps between Indiana (where they are mentioned) and Missouri where  have yet to find a reference of the Nanticoke). Have you heard of any "Nanticoke Blackfoot" traditions? If that idea can be put to rest, the whole "Eastern Blackfoot" legend might be put out of its misery, as well.

I am QUITE certain there are NO "Cherokee Blackfoot" -- one more FAKE concept that needs its own trophy on the hall of shame.

vh

Hi, I have never heard of the Nanticoke Blackfeet.
I know that when it comes to my people
the Lakota blackfeet, they are a band of the Lakota nation. They broke off the Dakota nation around 1400s, back then they were all Oglala, then the Burnt thigh brokes off from them we lived in the area of southern Minesota, Nebraska and Iowa at least that is where I find the oldest Lakota bands after they left the Mother tribe the Dakota in 1700s.  According to our history there was no blackfeet band until they moved from the minnesota/nebraska/Iowa area. Remember blackfeet are just a band of the Lakota not a nation.
I can find no reference of this band going to the east after they establish the band on the Missouri.
the Blackfeet broke off about 1500s. I know that after the band was established from a man named Fire heart they made their homes along the Missouri river around the 1700s.
If a band traveled all the way to the east in the 1700s you would think we would have a record of it.
In Spirit

Offline NanticokePiney

  • Posts: 191
Re: Cherokee Blackfoot Cultural Circle
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2008, 01:05:09 am »
howdy -- I recently posted here (a month or 2 back) and am juts reading responses.


This next bit is for Nanticokepiney -- howdy. Did you read my earlier post here about a possible orignin for the term Eastern Blackfoot"? I have done quite a lot of historical research on the term "Eastern Blackfoot" I have found only 2 references -- historical -- to any Eastern Blackfoot and I mentioned both of them in my first post, a month or 2 back.

Now from my research I found the Nanticoke migrating westward and they became pretty much absorbed by the Delaware by the time they were in Indiana. The Delaware went on to Missouri, Kansas and NE Oklahoma (one band went to Arkansas and NE Tx for a while. They are the Delaware Tribe of Western Oklahoma today, based out of Anadaro). But the others are in NE Oklahoma today. The Delawqare migrated westward with other Algonquin groups, Miami and Shawnee and others (including references to the Nanticoke). I never saw any reference to Nanticoke in Oklahoma, however, making me think they were totally absorbed at some time, by the Delaware perhaps between Indiana (where they are mentioned) and Missouri where  have yet to find a reference of the Nanticoke). Have you heard of any "Nanticoke Blackfoot" traditions? If that idea can be put to rest, the whole "Eastern Blackfoot" legend might be put out of its misery, as well.

I am QUITE certain there are NO "Cherokee Blackfoot" -- one more FAKE concept that needs its own trophy on the hall of shame.

vh


   There is people of Nanticoke descent who claim "Blackfoot". It apparently came from a town called "Blackfoot" where  several Nanticoke families settled. I'll PM you the wordpad document and link.

Offline NanticokePiney

  • Posts: 191
Re: Cherokee Blackfoot Cultural Circle
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2008, 01:20:23 am »
 Blackfoot Town, Dagsboro, Delaware

      http://www.mitsawokett.com/Blackfoot.htm

Offline earthw7

  • Posts: 1415
    • Standing Rock Tourism
Re: Cherokee Blackfoot Cultural Circle
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2008, 04:09:09 am »
I can agree with this to a point
the Blackfeet are just a band of Lakota
kind like a clan but we don't have clans.
They are not a nation. If a group came
the would be Lakota.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2008, 05:22:53 am by earthw7 »
In Spirit

Offline V Hawkins

  • Posts: 18
Re: Cherokee Blackfoot Cultural Circle
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2008, 01:51:27 am »
http://www.mitsawokett.com/OriginOfBlackfoot-DE.htm

Here is another idea, the one I had mentioned to those same people at mitsawokett website. They asked permission to post it and I said "okay". I  never really went back there, though, after that. It is what I mentioned earlier but in more detail.

The people quoted in the other quote from mitsawokett website are all from the www.saponitown.com/forum website . . .

The Tutelo went to Canada and lived with the Six Nations and NOT westward into Indiana where the "Blackfoot Church" is located. The Delaware were at that loaction and they were there when that church was founded. The band of Delaware in that region (S In) were the first to migrate into SE Mo, then Ar and NE Tx before going to W Ok.

vh

Offline V Hawkins

  • Posts: 18
Re: Cherokee Blackfoot Cultural Circle
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2008, 11:56:14 am »
http://www.native-languages.org/indiana.htm

I checked the links I'd placed on the link and the one with the map of the location of the Nanticoke and other Algonquin tribes was no longer there. The other links worked, tho. But the above website does mention that the Nanticoke were in Indiana.

I'll keep lookin for that map.

vh


Offline fgraywolf

  • Posts: 3
CHEROKEE BLACKFEET CULTURAL CIRCLE INC.
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2008, 10:55:41 pm »
HELLO MY NAME IS FIREBIRD GRAYWOLF AND VERY PROUD TO HAVE A INDIGENOUS NAME THAT REPRESENTS MY ORIGINAL HERITAGE AND NOT FROM A NON NATIVE GIVING OUR PEOPLE EUROPEAN NAMES. I JUST HAPPEN TO COME UPON THIS SITE
AND SEE THAT PEOPLE REPORTING ABOUT THE CHEROKEE BLACKFEET CULTURAL CIRCLE INC. I JUST WANTED TO SAY TO EDUCATED INDIAN AND THE PEOPLE THAT DESCRIBED MEMBERS OR PAST MEMBERS. IT IS TOO BAD THAT YOU ONLY GOT PART OF THE INFORMATION CORRECT. EVERY ONE THAT JOINED IN HOPES TO ENHANCE OUR INDIAN HERITAGE ARE FRUADS ARE BAD SPIRITED PEOPLE. THE CHEROKEE CULTURAL CIRCLE HAD MANY DECENT PEOPLE AS MYSELF TRYING TO SHOW THE TRUE HISTORY OF NATIVE AMERICA. WE COME IN MANY LOOKS AND BACKGROUNDS
I HAVE NOT MET MANY FULL BLOODS BECAUSE OF THE SMALL NUMBERS AND EVEN PEOPLE LIVING ON RESERVATIONS MANY OF THEM HAVE MARRIED OUTSIDE. IT SEEMS THAT THE ONES WITH THE BLACK BLOOD CONSTANTLY GET BEAT UP ON. YOU SAY THEY WEAR A MIXTURE OF REGALIA. THAT IS VERY TRUE,
HOWEVER MANY INDIANS WEAR TOP HATS, CONFEDERATE COATS OR UNION, COWBOY HATS AND GLITTER WHEN THEY DANCE, BEADS MADE FROM EUROPE ETC. YET THE CONCENTRATION IS STILL ON INDIANS WITH BLACK BLOOD NOT INDIANS WITH WHITE BLOOD,CHINESE BLOOD,FRENCH BLOOD ,GERMAN BLOOD.
EACH GENERATION I SEE INDIAN FOLKS SKIN GETTING LIGHTER AND LIGHTER, BUT THE CONCENTRATION IS ON INDIANS WITH BLACK BLOOD. I THINK THAT THERE IS SOME KIND OF FEAR. IF THEY SEE INDIANS WITH BLACK BLOOD THEN MAYBE THEY WILL LOOK INTO OTHER GENE POOL. AS FAR AS THIS CHEROKEE BLACKFEET CULTURAL GROUP YOU PUT US ALL IN THE SAME KETTLE OF SOUP.
MANY OF US TOOK A CHANCE TO DO SOMETHING FOR NATIVE PRIDE. FINDING OUT THAT SOMEONE IS CROOKED CAN HAPPEN TO ANYONE.ANCESTRY DOES NOT SEEM TO MATTER WHEN INDIANS FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY COME UP TO CONNECTICUT TO SCHEMETZIN ON THE PEQUOT RESERVATION EVERY YEAR TO DANCE FOR BIG PRIZE MONEY. SO MANY OF THOSE MILLIONAIRE CASINO OWNING PEQUOTS HAVE BLACK BLOOD. YOU SEE WHEN YOU ARE CROOKED AS THE CASE OF THE LEADER OF THIS GROUP YOU FIND OVER EAGER PEOPLE EVERYDAY THAT WANT TO BE A PART OF THEIR BLOOD RIGHT AND THEY JOIN GROUPS LIKE THIS BECAUSE EVERYONE THAT IS INDIAN DID NOT GROW UP ON THE REZ OR CAN GET A TRIBAL CARD. SHUCKS I KNOW SOME INDIANS THAT HAVE BOUGHT LEGITMATE CARDS AND WERE NOT EVEN INDIAN OR THE NATION OF INDIAN THAT THE CARD REPRESENTS. SO IN ALL FAIRNESS DO NOT JUDGE EVERYONE IN A GROUP FOR THE ACTIONS OF ONE OR TWO PEOPLE. 8)

Offline NanticokePiney

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Re: CHEROKEE BLACKFEET CULTURAL CIRCLE INC.
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2008, 11:56:55 pm »
 Firebird? Sounds more like a Pontiac than a "Native" name. Don't start that "we niggas" crap because there is a Nanticoke on this forum (me) and we have one of the highest percentage of black blood. ( My granny was a Cuff - see Ashanti: "Kofi")
 A tribe is a contiuous community of interrelated people and if a Indian is what he says he is his tribe would accept that. "Blackfoot" is a slang term for Nanticokes Moors and Monacans. Sometimes the Brass Ankles will use it. There were never any Cherokee Blackfoot.
 Also, your spelling, grammer and punctuations sucks. I suggest you return to school.

 Rich Joseph - Niggacoke

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Cherokee Blackfoot Cultural Circle
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2008, 02:01:46 am »
FG, being new you will have better luck if you practice basic politeness and read the guidelines we have first.

Being polite means no posting in all caps. Just trying to read your post gives me a headache.

Ironically, your post mostly agreed with us, that the leaders are frauds. Just being interested in your heritage doesn't give you an excuse to ignore facts that you could easily see find in any history book, much less by going to any actual Native forum online.

I really have wonder, just how could you believe all the crazy claims about Moors and avatars and "Asiatic aboriginals"?

The guidelines include trying to get the thread in the right section and not starting new ones without good reason. So your thread was merged with the original one and kept where it belongs.

And BTW, almost all of the threads in here have been on frauds who preyed mostly on whites, simply because the US is mostly white. The Europeans they prey on, as well as the tourists in Latin America preyed on, are mostly white.

One thing I have noticed is a greater tendency towards dangerous cults among Nuage frauds who prey on Blacks, where the ones that prey on whites often just take the money at a weekend seminar and run.

Offline NanticokePiney

  • Posts: 191
Re: Cherokee Blackfoot Cultural Circle
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2008, 02:37:03 am »
  I really have wonder, just how could you believe all the crazy claims about Moors?

 I hear that a lot at powwows and gatherings. It burns my butt. The slang term for my particular group is "Moors". Several people have actually taken this literally. When it was nothing but a old Cheswold folktale (with no historical evidence whatsoever) explaining our origins.
 I was also irked with that "race card".
 "Your picking on us cause we're part black!"
 It won't work with me because I am too..........

 Edit: Hey Firebird! Thanks for having your friend (or is it you) send me such kind email through my forum. Lets argue the point here. ;D
 Edit 2: I started a thread in my forum too  8)
« Last Edit: March 02, 2008, 05:36:32 am by NanticokePiney »