NAFPS Forum
General => Frauds => Topic started by: shawnee68 on January 31, 2007, 03:41:02 pm
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I recently attended a meeting at an urban center in Baltimore and this man, Henry Niese, showed up. He is of "Cherokee Heritage" and is "teaching" people "Lakota ways" (and, I think, charging for the privilege). I'm from a Sun Dance family and greeted him in Lakota to which he was unable to respond. He says he was "taught" by Bill Eagle Feather, although my Iron Shell relatives do not know him. He also talks about how many times he has pierced or given flesh, which was a huge red flag to me. I couldn't fund any info on him on the boards, and he is an elder, so I want to know something before I speak of my concerns. Anyone have any information about this guy?
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I googled his name and most of whjat I found was like this:
http://www.earthportals.com/Portal_Messenger/niese.html
http://www.earthportals.com/Portal_Messenger/indian.html
http://www.innertraditions.com/Contributor.jmdx?action=displayDetail&id=225
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Thanks! I saw some of that, too, as well as him lined up with the usual suspects like Silverhand, Jamie Sams, and Eagle Man. Something's just not right here and I don't have more to go on than my gut. With all these New Agers claiming that Indians (dead or alive) give them "secret knowledge", kinda makes you scratch your head (and kick some butt!).
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I understand that all too well. The thing for me is a "Cherokee" doing "Lakota spiritualality". THat smells bad to me.
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White man posing as Indian. Next?
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heya,
I didnt belong to this board but read the topic on Henry and wanted to comment on it from what i know. I do know that henry had "said" that he was tight with Chief Turkey Tayac.. and i seem to remember some pretty big issues about him - I will find out and repost. I do know that Chief Turkey and Eaglefeather were good friends. I think this man obviously was using their names - he is a definite FRAUD.
Cat
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There are three factions now of the Pisscataway. One is headed by Billy Tayac. The factionalism started when Billy thought he should be the chief when Turkey died. He thought he should inherit the position. I have been told that when Turkey died, Billy changed Turkey's last name from Proctor to Tayac. I don't know if this was legally done or not. Billy's birth name is also Proctor.
I have met Henry Niese and he is mixed blood like many people are. He is a gruff old man but is not a fraud. He he has done a lot work in person for Native people in Maryland prisons. It is not wise to make blanket statements against people you have not met personally, or at least that is what I think.
I heard Henry talk of Turkey Proctor. I have heard others in the Proctor family talk of Turkey and talk of Henry. I see no reason or benefit for Henry to lie.
Henry does not charge for ceremony, at least not the time I went there. We all helped tend to the property as payment and all brought food for the meal after the sweat. I think it unwise for whoever said they think he charges for ceremony to say so unless they know for a fact.
This urban Indian Center must be the Baltimore American Indian Center of which I have been invloved with since I was a kid.
Shouldn't this topic be under Research Needed?
Thanks for listening.
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Thanks for the information Found, I think the question would be why a Cherokee would be doing Lakota Spirituality? I think that is what peeks anyone's interest. Have you ever heard why?
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I wondered this too but it did not seem polite to ask directly when I was guest.
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Thanks for the information Found, I think the question would be why a Cherokee would be doing Lakota Spirituality? I think that is what peeks anyone's interest. Have you ever heard why?
Kind of reminds me of the group that came down to Black Mesa wanting to do a sun dance. It ended up causing a lot of anger between a lot of Hopi and Navajo.
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Makes you wonder, But the Sundancers were invited by RBG. The land dispute was already there. That one goes back to the 1800's. But like Found said there are times and circumstances when it's just inappropiate to ask.
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so is he enrolled? why brag about our ways that is plain wrong
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He wrote a book about his time with EagleFeather and I know of several non-natives who attend his Sundance. I do not know enough about the man to comment either way but his book is out there to be read.
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I think who was asking never came back.
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There are three factions now of the Pisscataway. One is headed by Billy Tayac. The factionalism started when Billy thought he should be the chief when Turkey died. He thought he should inherit the position. I have been told that when Turkey died, Billy changed Turkey's last name from Proctor to Tayac. I don't know if this was legally done or not. Billy's birth name is also Proctor.
I have met Henry Niese and he is mixed blood like many people are. He is a gruff old man but is not a fraud. He he has done a lot work in person for Native people in Maryland prisons. It is not wise to make blanket statements against people you have not met personally, or at least that is what I think.
I heard Henry talk of Turkey Proctor. I have heard others in the Proctor family talk of Turkey and talk of Henry. I see no reason or benefit for Henry to lie.
Henry does not charge for ceremony, at least not the time I went there. We all helped tend to the property as payment and all brought food for the meal after the sweat. I think it unwise for whoever said they think he charges for ceremony to say so unless they know for a fact.
This urban Indian Center must be the Baltimore American Indian Center of which I have been invloved with since I was a kid.
Shouldn't this topic be under Research Needed?
Thanks for listening.
Hi,
I know the Tayak family personally, and Henry did try and tell everyone he was learning from and friends with Chief Turkey Tayak... the family all denies it... no association whatsoever... they have no reason to lie and are not liars. As for Bill Eaglefeather the same goes there... I cant speak on Hanks blood but i can speak on what i know..he's a liar.
So that makes everything else he is saying suspect.
Cat
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as far as i know this is a late entry ,but I must say i never heard of Henry Niese,But as for him doing the Lakota teachings ,Anything is possible and most ppls who arent Lakota are doing it, So where ever he got his so called teachings than it's his word and he not here to defend himself ,has anyone tried to contact this Henry feller ...
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I know Henry Niese personally, and have since October 2001.
He is an honorable man, a teacher, and a respected elder.
He has never charged a cent for any ceremony.
Toksa.
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Are you Kangiwinyan from MO?
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Kangicante from MD.
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Henry Ernst Niese was born 1924 New Jersey to Benedictus Emil Niese and Ruth Halstead. His father and paternal grandfather were sugar and coal industrialists, with bios in the book "Prominent Families of New Jersey"
http://books.google.com/books?id=qG_5K_s3a-gC&pg=PA443&dq=niese+%22new+jersey%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=NQkDUqXSI4-oqwHLpID4DA&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=niese%20%22new%20jersey%22&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=qG_5K_s3a-gC&pg=PA443&dq=niese+%22new+jersey%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=NQkDUqXSI4-oqwHLpID4DA&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=niese%20%22new%20jersey%22&f=false)
His mother was "one of the first American women to train and practice as a radiologist"
http://abitofhistory.net/html/rhw/body_files/n_body.htm#nieseruth (http://abitofhistory.net/html/rhw/body_files/n_body.htm#nieseruth)
Henry taped an oral history interview he did with his mother http://www.worldcat.org/title/oral-history-interview-with-ruth-halstead-niese-28-april-1979/oclc/79391460 (http://www.worldcat.org/title/oral-history-interview-with-ruth-halstead-niese-28-april-1979/oclc/79391460)
Both parents from New Jersey.
One of his grandparents was born in Germany, one England, two New York.
Looking over the already extensive genealogy work that has been done on these families - haven't seen any mention or hint of possible NDN heritage.
For 10 years Henry Niese has been the religious volunteer for Native American groups in the Maryland penitentiary system. "Most of the guys are mixed blood like me", says Henry. "Like Chief Eagle Feather said, one drop is enough".
http://www.earthportals.com/Portal_Messenger/indian.html (http://www.earthportals.com/Portal_Messenger/indian.html)
So he is claiming distant heritage. My guess is this would be very distant, not how he or even his great grandparents were raised.
He and his parents in 1940 census https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/K4RS-71V
Henry Niese Studio http://www.henryniese.com/bio.htm (http://www.henryniese.com/bio.htm)
Medicine Man to lead Earth Day Service 1993 http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=PN0lAAAAIBAJ&sjid=fv0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=5527,1289132&dq=henry+niese+artist+indian&hl=en (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=PN0lAAAAIBAJ&sjid=fv0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=5527,1289132&dq=henry+niese+artist+indian&hl=en) He is identified as a traditional Cherokee medicine man
Another Earth Day, led by "Henry Niese, a Cherokee practicing the Lakota Ceremony" 1995 http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=alczAAAAIBAJ&sjid=rP0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=5789,999269&dq=henry-niese+cherokee&hl=en (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=alczAAAAIBAJ&sjid=rP0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=5789,999269&dq=henry-niese+cherokee&hl=en)
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More on Niese here (about his health and growing up short in size) http://www.perthes.org.uk/2007/11/henry-niese/ (http://www.perthes.org.uk/2007/11/henry-niese/) Mention is made of his grandmother from England, also of his brother Beano (Benedictus).
Unlike many of the frauds we research here, Niese's art claims check out. The Smithsonian does have a painting of his:
The Bed Quilt
1956 Henry Niese, born Jersey City, NJ 1924 oil on canvas 61 3/4 x 46 in. (157.0 x 116.8 cm) Smithsonian American Art Museum, Gift of Ben Niese 1981.104 Not on view
http://americanart.si.edu/collections/search/artwork/results/index.cfm?rows=10&q=&page=1&start=0&fq=name:%22Niese%2C%20Henry%22 (http://americanart.si.edu/collections/search/artwork/results/index.cfm?rows=10&q=&page=1&start=0&fq=name:%22Niese%2C%20Henry%22)
He did get a Pulitzer traveling scholarship in art, 1954, value of $1,500.
Uploaded here is a clip from a book on Morristown, NJ - depicts the estate known as Hill Terrace of his paternal grandfather Henry E Niese, who was born in Germany.
http://books.google.com/books?id=t88vrKPxLPgC&pg=PA39&lpg=PA39&dq=%22henry+e+niese%22&source=bl&ots=9Y3lbOVXMF&sig=LlP3xfoMEGVfN_m7E5n6cAmNqoY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=2AYDUs-9HIjGqQHYoIHADw&ved=0CD4Q6AEwBzgK#v=onepage&q=%22henry%20e%20niese%22&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=t88vrKPxLPgC&pg=PA39&lpg=PA39&dq=%22henry+e+niese%22&source=bl&ots=9Y3lbOVXMF&sig=LlP3xfoMEGVfN_m7E5n6cAmNqoY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=2AYDUs-9HIjGqQHYoIHADw&ved=0CD4Q6AEwBzgK#v=onepage&q=%22henry%20e%20niese%22&f=false)
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To all this Henry is a dear friend of my family and have been to his sundance, where my dad danced. He is not a sham nor does he charge for ceremony. People sound dumb when they say something and follow it with (i think) if you dont know for sure dont say it. Hes been helping people on the red road for over 20 years.
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That's nice ???
But he is not Native and does not have that right
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I know this mans name Hank Niese he is known as. My Uncle said Hank Niese was a scam artist along with Ed Mcgaa. Niese does a lot of name dropping to his followers. It was both Niese and Mcgaa who tried to push reporters on Fools Crow. Oldman Fools Crow knew what they were up to. I will help expose this fraud also.
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Henry has participated in sixteen Sun Dances on the Rosebud Sioux Reservation in South Dakota, dancing four days, piercing, and giving flesh in all. In the 1990 Sundance he made one of the most difficult sacrifices, known as the Four Winds Pierce. He has been guest fellow at Yale University, teaching a seminar contrasting Native American and European beliefs, "Problems of Perception in Two Cultures". He is of Cherokee heritage.
He welcomes the chance to teach others what he has learned.
Henry "Wild Goose" Niese (AKA) Little Big Hearted Man
Ok here is the problem with this, first the man is bragging on his sundancing feats, second he is of Cherokee ancestry and he is practicing Lakota Spirituality. It is people like this man here who have no identity within their own people so they look for any kind of acceptance. Sometimes that acceptance is found through ignorance; Niese forgets the pain my Lakota elders went through to keep our language and spirituality alive. Like all Non-Indians he is a fool; I can make money doing this very thing to; but what can be gained from it other than the fact his ego has outgrown his teachings. Hank Niese is like all th other New Age nuts; read Black Elk Speaks and you to can become an instant Medicine Man. The book Black Elk Speaks has been nothing but trouble for us Lakotas, and to br honest none of that book is actually the words of Black Elk. Neihardt arranged it to appeal to the reader; in reality Black Elk's grandson on purpose misinterpreted Oldman Black Elks words; out of suspicion. What these New Age Crazies are reading is not the real Black Elk it is the words of Niehardt.