NAFPS Forum

General => Frauds => Topic started by: ironbuffalo on August 10, 2007, 10:31:13 pm

Title: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: ironbuffalo on August 10, 2007, 10:31:13 pm

   This man Phillip Scott aka "Tsunka Wakan Sapa/ Chief Black Horse"  ::) is active in my area. Apparentley, Crow Dog made him a "chief" at some twinkie sundance in Texas. He is running sweats just up the road from me it seems, as well as charging for "healings" and "naming ceremonies". I want to shut this guy down.

  http://www.ancestralvoice.org/
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: debbieredbear on August 11, 2007, 02:34:46 am
Yuck. OPne of Mary "Thunder" Grimes' people no doubt. She runs a sundance in Texas for wannabes. One thing you might do is contact the CNO since he claims that he is Western Cherokee.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: frederica on August 11, 2007, 04:59:04 pm
May be one of these groups. Barbara Lindsey One Nation United used that, and they all wouldn't claim her. Another certified EMT teaches CPR at his workshops also.  http://www.westerncherokee.org/   http://westerncherokee.net/   http://westerncherokee.com/    frederica     
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: frederica on August 11, 2007, 05:04:41 pm
First one http://westerncherokeenation.org/   
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: ironbuffalo on August 13, 2007, 02:03:47 pm


 Thanks folks. For starters I am going to get some flyers made up on this guy and post them around the local area. I have other "actions" in mind as well ;-).
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: educatedindian on August 14, 2007, 07:32:59 am
Yet one more claiming to be Toltec, seems to be a Castaneda wannabe too.

"THE ROAD TO FEARLESSNESS - THE PATH OF THE AWAKENED WARRIOR
Coupling the awareness of the principles of warriorship that can be adopted to suit contemporary life with the aid of indigenous and toltec practices, we discover, examine, confront and begin to eliminate the fears and stumbling blocks which prevent us from finding fulfillment, purpose and Freedom in our lives.
For more information, please contact ANCESTRAL VOICE at (415) 897-7991
or E-mail us at: Info@ancestralvoice.org
Prayers, Blessings & Gratitude,
Phillip"

So the Toltec were not indigenous, according to him?

Also:

"PURIFICATION LODGE
Commonly referred to as a “sweatlodge???, the purification lodge is an ancient, indigenous prayer and healing ceremony, which combines the sacred elements- Air, Fire and Water- within the womb of the Earth. The ceremony is conducted in a traditional manner."

If you use terms taken from European paganism, it isn't traditional. Neither is an alleged Cherokee doing pseudo Lakota ceremonies.

IB, let us know about any other actions you take.

This link shows some of the organizers of his twink gathering in San Jose, led by "lightworkers".
http://metaphysics.meetup.com/249/calendar/6048173/

And of course he teaches how to make your own medicine wheel. So when he says "taught by many elders" it really means paid for seminars by several exploiters.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Barnaby_McEwan on August 14, 2007, 12:00:40 pm
Surely that should read

Quote
THE PATH OF THE WEEKEND WARRIOR
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: ironbuffalo on August 14, 2007, 02:03:08 pm
From one of his groupies

"Strong medicine ceremony, authentic heart~principle based practical wisdom transmissions, cool animal sounds, powerful Native voice & songs, warm journeying memories. Phillip embodies & shines the healing Spiritual Warrior~Shaman spirit."

 LMFAO. This guys even uses sound effects!
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: ironbuffalo on August 21, 2007, 09:14:48 pm


 I looked at his schedule for August, and the sweat he had listed for Aug 28th at 12:00 noon has been removed. I have been asking around here about him, and I wonder if he smells trouble. Dunno...but at least it is one less thing he is doing here.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Smart Mule on April 19, 2012, 06:19:47 pm
Phillip Scott is still active.  His followers are now claiming, among other things, that he made their cancer go into remission http://www.ancestralvoice.org/Testimonials.shtml (http://www.ancestralvoice.org/Testimonials.shtml).

He is still claiming CNO.
Bio:
Of Western Band Tsalagi (Cherokee) Ancestry, Phillip Scott/ Tsunka Wakan Sapa (Black Horse) has walked the Native Path for over thirty years, learning from traditional Medicine/Holy people, tribal Spiritual leaders, shamans and elders from various cultures. Sundancing for the past twenty consecutive years, he is a ceremonial Chief in the Lakota tradition, entrusted with sharing Indigenous wisdom and traditional healing practices with the contemporary world – including the arenas of education, modern medicine, religion and business. Interviewed both nationally and internationally on radio, television and for newspapers, his life and wisdom have been featured in journals and books.  In addition to directing and teaching the programs at Ancestral Voice - Center for Indigenous Lifeways in Northern California, which he founded in 1994, he maintains a private healing practice, performs ceremonies, lectures, conducts intensives and leads pilgrimages worldwide.



Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Smart Mule on April 19, 2012, 09:11:49 pm
Scott was scheduled for an event at Ten Thousand Villages in Boston tonight which, thanks to the support of allies, has been cancelled. Mr Scott claims to have some sort of documentation from Leonard Crow Dog stating he is in fact a chief  :o  He also claims his father was enrolled CNO.  One of the individuals responsible for getting the event cancelled tonight is expecting a phone call from him.  Hopefully she will chime in as to how that went :)
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: earthw7 on April 20, 2012, 12:40:02 pm
remember cherokee dont do sweat lodges,
and talking with Crow Dog many people have these claim but most are not true
we had to ask him about another individual and said he never taught most of these
people
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: earthw7 on April 20, 2012, 12:43:34 pm
What should be done is asking the name of his relatives
people who do ceremony must tell you that and you have a
right to ask for his enrollment and the dates when he was given this
rights, and all ceremonies must be done in our language so check
to see if he speak and what language
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Smart Mule on April 20, 2012, 01:38:16 pm
Thanks earth. I have not yet had a chance to speak with Scott.  The woman who chose to take point on contacting Ten Thousand Villages and who spoke with Scott's supposed teacher, Tom Medicine Wolf (who claims to be Shoshone) is supposed to pass my number along so the right questions can be asked.

Supposedly Scott has been dancing at Crow Dog's for decades, he was also supposedly presented with items he should not have.  If I can get an address on him I'll be calling fish and wildlife.

I know for a fact Scott is not enrolled.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Smart Mule on April 20, 2012, 03:46:30 pm
Here is the page for the Boston event -

http://boston.tenthousandvillages.com/calenderevents/view/detail/id/1624 (http://boston.tenthousandvillages.com/calenderevents/view/detail/id/1624)

One Family, Many Villages
April 19, 2012

5:30 - 7:30 pm
We are delighted to announce and welcome you to an evening of traditional teachings and ceremony conducted by Chief Black Horse to sanctify our village, heal ourselves and to remind us that, as the Lakota word Mitakuye Oyasin translates, we are all related.

Bio:
Of Western Band Tsalagi (Cherokee) Ancestry, Phillip Scott/ Tsunka Wakan Sapa (Black Horse) has walked the Native Path for over thirty years, learning from traditional Medicine/Holy people, tribal Spiritual leaders, shamans and elders from various cultures. Sundancing for the past twenty consecutive years, he is a ceremonial Chief in the Lakota tradition, entrusted with sharing Indigenous wisdom and traditional healing practices with the contemporary world – including the arenas of education, modern medicine, religion and business. Interviewed both nationally and internationally on radio, television and for newspapers, his life and wisdom have been featured in journals and books. In addition to directing and teaching the programs at Ancestral Voice - Center for Indigneous Lifeways in Northern California, which he founded in 1994, he maintains a private healing practice, performs ceremonies, lectures, conducts intensives and leads pilgrimages worldwide.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Smart Mule on April 20, 2012, 09:51:00 pm
I spoke with Mr Scott.

Leonard Crow Dog Sr made him a ceremonial chief in June of 2003.  He told me that Leonard conferred with a number of other chiefs, he spoke too quickly for me to write them down.  I do remember that one was a Michael Hall, the other was one of the Swallows.

He dances at Big Mountain and Paradise every year.




Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Defend the Sacred on April 20, 2012, 11:22:29 pm
Here's his bio and a talk he gave on a Shamanism site:

http://whyshamanismnow.com/guests/scott-phillip/
Quote
(http://whyshamanismnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Phillip-Scott-225x300.jpg)

Scott, Phillip

Episodes:     Leading by Council, Community by Heart

Philip Scott is a ceremonial Chief in the Lakota tradition, entrusted with sharing Indigenous wisdom and traditional healing practices with the contemporary world – including the arenas of education, modern medicine, religion and business. In addition to directing and teaching the programs at Ancestral Voice – Center for Indigenous Lifeways in Northern California, which he founded in 1994, he maintains a private healing practice, conducts ceremonies, lectures, teaches intensives and leads pilgrimages worldwide.

Phillip/Tsunka Wakan Sapa is of Western Band Tsalagi (Cherokee) Ancestry.  He has walked the Native Path for over thirty years, learning from traditional Medicine/Holy people, tribal Spiritual leaders, shamans and elders from various cultures. Philip has been sundancing for the past twenty consecutive years. His life and wisdom are featured in journals and books.


http://whyshamanismnow.com/2012/01/leading-by-council-community-by-heart-with-phillip-scott/
Quote

Leading by Council, Community by Heart with Phillip Scott

People around the world are calling out for new forms of leadership, economic exchange, and community.  If we can tap the wisdom of our long ago ancestors we will find the wisdom of leadership by council, the energetic exchange based on a love for the future, and community built on engaging with the reality of the interconnectedness of all living things.  Join host and shaman, Christina Pratt, and her guest, Phillip Scott, as they discuss Phillip’s experiences as a sitting chief leading through council and creating contemporary community based on indigenous wisdom. Philip Scott is the founder/director of Ancestral Voice, a center of healing and learning devoted to the preservation, application, and respectful dissemination of shamanic and Indigenous lifeways.  He is a ceremonial Chief in the Lakota tradition, entrusted with sharing Indigenous wisdom and traditional healing practices with the contemporary world.  These ancient teachings have much to offer us as we strive together as the human family to create systems of sacred economics and communities based on the exchange of the heart. Phillip joins us for the next show in the Society of Shamanic Practitioners sponsored interview series where we explore how contemporary shamans are meeting the challenge of their world today.

Listen to the show (just click the Play arrow): 

or download (right-click the link) the Leading by Council, Community by Heart with Phillip Scott .mp3 audio file.
About Christina Pratt…

Shamanic teacher and author, Christina is a skilled shamanic healer who weaves her authentic shamanic experience, extensive training, and experience with shamans from Ecuador, Nepal, Tibet, and Africa into her contemporary practice. She has been in practice for 20 years, specializing in soul retrieval healings, soul part integration, and ancestral healing. She is the director of the Last Mask Center for Shamanic Healing in Portland, Oregon.

Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: arielle on June 13, 2012, 03:42:32 am
I am curious to know what made people think he is a fraud in the first place?  My intuition says, despite his supposed "lineage" and whatnot, that he's not legitimate. but i have no real proof. anyone have any insight into this?  i went to a medicine wheel of his back in 2005 or 2006...and got weird vibes.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: educatedindian on June 14, 2012, 02:36:47 pm
A supposed Cherokee doing an imitation of Lakota sweatlodges, and an associate of fellow frauds Michael Hull and Mary Grimes.

Can you tell us more about your experience? What do you mean by weird? Threatening? Insincere?
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: arielle on June 17, 2012, 04:17:08 am
I would sort of like to have this conversation either on the phone or via facebook or something more private.  i am fairly certain he checks this and is definitely aware that he has been deemed a "fraud" on this website.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: earthw7 on June 17, 2012, 12:10:47 pm
Anyone claiming to be a descent of a Cherokee and doing Lakota ceremonies you have to raise your eyebrows
and wonder ??? ???Why because Cherokees dont do Sweat Lodge, plus he is not nor does he have any blessing-power or rights
to the Lakota people-ceremonies-way of life ect.... the only thing he got was the right to work with crow dog,
It amazing me how many people think because one person does something that the nation support it, that is not how
our nation works, each man does not have the right of the nation. So this man has no right to my nations ceremonies,
plus he has to accepted by our people

Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: educatedindian on June 26, 2012, 02:11:23 pm
Scott contacted us. First is his email followed by my response.

------------

Good Evening Mr. Carrol,

Praying this transmission finds you and your family in health.

Several years ago, my name was placed on the New Age Fraud website by a Native activist who I have never met nor has ever participated in the traditional ceremonies I conduct. I desire my name to be expunged from the site but have not known whom to contact nor how to proceed.

A few months ago, fortuitous circumstances placed me in touch with Sky Davis who informed me of the procedure - namely to have the Chiefs who witnessed my Wapaha (Bonneting) ceremony by Chief Leonard Crow Dog Sr. contact her...she provided me with your e-maill address and directed me to communicate with you.

Recently returning from the Lampasas, TX Sundance, Chief Michael Hull (intercessor), Chief Houston and Chief Richard Grimes were present at the Wapaha ceremony in June of 2003.  All three attended this year's Dance and have agreed to contact you. Since the latter two do not employ the internet, please provide a telephone number in order for them to speak with you directly.

As for the others in attendance in 2003, Chief Phil Crazy Bull and Chief Luciano Perez have journeyed Home to the Spirit World.
Chief Marvin Swallow did not attend this year and Chief Horse has not been at the Dance since 2005. I do not have current contact information for them.

Trusting the words and truth of these three ceremonial leaders and men of honour will be sufficient to fulfill the criteria.

If you have questions or require clarification, please feel free to contact me - best by telephone as I soon depart for another Sundance.

Wopila Tanka (Great Thanks) for your assistance in rectifying this matter.

Blessings & Gratitude,
Phillip
Chief Tsunka Wakan Sapa

----------

Hello Mr. Scott,

Our contact information has always been on our website and you could have easily contacted us at the start.

We always welcome any additional information which can clear these matters up and would gladly post any statement of yours. You are also welcome to join and post it yourself and answer any questions from members.

Your being placed in the Fraud category was not due to any one person. All persons placed there have shown themselves to either misrepresent who they are and what they do, sell ceremonies, or abuse their followers, or some combination of these.

In your case you falsely claim to be enrolled with the CNO and to be a Lakota chief with "rights" to sell Lakota ceremonies. Sometimes you says CNO descent and this may perhaps be more accurate. But traditional Cherokee don't do sweatlodges, and they certainly don't falsely claim any right to do them. And no one has any right to sell them, period.

You also have distinctly New Age rather than traditional beliefs and practices. You believe in the Toltec nonsense propagated by the original New Age exploiter Carlos Castaneda, a fraud who led a very destructive cult that has spread more lies about Native people than any group outside of Hollywood. Your followers, such as the ones who organized your San Jose ceremony selling, are also New Agers and "lightworkers."

As for Crow Dog, he has done much good for his people, but his frequently making any white New Age twinkie a "chief" is wrong and very destructive.

I could not be less impressed by you claiming one of those non-Native New Age twinkies, Michael Hull, as supposedly a "chief" who makes you legitimate.

Hull is a fraud and exploiter, a longtime associate of fellow fraud Mary Grimes, another imposter calling herself "Mary Thunder" who claimed a vision after hallucinations during a stomach stapling operation to control her weight problem. (The account of this came from an actual Lakota, Mike Two Horses.)

I personally protested Mr. Hull's theft of public funds, misrepresenting himself as an American Indian and a "chief" to speak at American Indian Heritage Month at an event at a public university. This was taking public funds by deception.

Endorsement of you by another of the Grimes, Richard, is equally unimpressive and downright damning.

We have also received an account by a former follower describing exploitation, being expected to give up any and all monies to you.

If you want to be taken off the list, it would be fairly simple to do so:

Stop your exploitation and fraud.

Stop selling ceremony.

Return all the money you have taken.

Learn Cherokee tradition rather than that of an unrelated tribe.

Publicly apologize for all the harm done.

I remain open to further discussion from you or any of the other persons you mention.

I should also tell you that any and all emails between us will become public so that all can see what was said. Phone and email addresses will be removed of course.

Sincerely,
Al Carroll, moderator
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Twinkie_Slayer on July 18, 2012, 02:06:53 pm
 Phillip got at least one thing right: I never participated in any of his "ceremonies". Don't need to, to see that he is a fraud. After he came to our attention here, he dropped the "chief" title from his web page and was really laying low in my area. I notice that he has his shingle out again for sweats in the Petaluma area again.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: used2bnaf on July 19, 2012, 03:45:21 am
I cannot watch this video tonight.  My laptop is acting the donkey.   :P

I'm sure it is very informative.

Enjoy.

http://www.doctorsaputo.com/a/indigenous-lifeways-and-healing-with-phillip-scott (http://www.doctorsaputo.com/a/indigenous-lifeways-and-healing-with-phillip-scott)


used2bnaf

Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Twinkie_Slayer on July 19, 2012, 02:46:54 pm
 He's just a jack of all trades now, isn't he? At least in this video, he's using the title "Chief" Black Horse again though I am not sure when this was made.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Twinkie_Slayer on July 19, 2012, 06:44:56 pm
used2bnaf,

   I saw your introductory post and your account of your involvement in the Texas Astroturf "sundance".  I am interested in anything you might be able to tell us about your experiences and/or observations regarding Phillip Scott. He resides and is very active in my area, and I'd like to know more about what he's up to, if possible.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: used2bnaf on July 20, 2012, 01:02:32 am
used2bnaf,

   I saw your introductory post and your account of your involvement in the Texas Astroturf "sundance".  I am interested in anything you might be able to tell us about your experiences and/or observations regarding Phillip Scott. He resides and is very active in my area, and I'd like to know more about what he's up to, if possible.

Since the group I am moving away from is proving to be meddlesome, I would prefer any details given at this point to be in the form of PM.  If you have something specific you are wondering about, let me know.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: native_avenger on November 02, 2012, 05:36:46 pm
I myself was never a student of Phillip's, but I know a few who were several years ago.  At that time he charged approx $300 for a one day workshop.   I'm not sure how much his students were charged, as it was a flat annual rate, but I'm working with a couple of them to join this website and relay their personal experiences.  Many of his former students were traumatized by the ordeals they endured, as he is a known manipulator of vulnerable women.  He accepts men into his circle as well, but definitely preys upon the women.  Several people have fallen ill in his sweat lodges, suffering everything from dehydration cramping to epileptic seizures.  He is dangerous to those who don't know better.  He's a joke in the northern California native community.  He's harmless in a lot of ways, but has the ability to inflict a lot of psychological and emotional damage. 
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: used2bnaf on November 03, 2012, 02:28:59 pm
I witnessed Philip Scott conduct a sweat lodge at the Lone Star Sun Dance.  It was the end of the day.  People were exhausted.  It was still well over 100 degrees outside.  People crawled in a huge lodge.  Holds 60 people comfortably.  I watched from the outside as he conducted 4 rounds of the lodge.  I was 15 feet away in a sitting area.  Philip never brought in any water to cool the stones.  I watched in horror as he did this.  When the lodge was over I asked several participants why he did this.  In the lodge Philip said he wanted the supporters to fully understand the suffering and sacrifice of the Sun Dancers.

Different people have said he charges anywhere from 1500 to 5000 a year to his students. Plus the cost of attending Sun Dance in Lampassas.

Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: adam1981 on January 13, 2013, 05:51:33 pm
Greetings,

I wanted to offer my perspective on Phillip Scott. I have never been a formal student of his, but I have attended several of his ceremonies and observed him under various circumstances.

I first met Mr. Scott while volunteering at the Labyrinth Guild at Grace Cathedral of San Francisco, a sacred and forward-feeling Christian institution. He was invited to perform musical ceremony at a Labyrinth Event, a type of Medicine Wheel. As soon as I set eyes on Phillip I was impressed. His body language continuously speaks of his authenticity and strength as a human being. I then attended a number of Inipi ceremonies and received great benefit from Phillip's Medicine, while observing many auspicious events in his presence.

Phillip Scott is one of the strongest and most sincere men I have ever met. His word is impeccable and he is as fearless as one gets while doing so much work with the body. He teaches great reverence for the feminine Grandmother aspect and I have never seen him act in any other way but respectful towards the women of his community. Based on direct observation I have little doubt about the potency of his Medicine.

It is important to understand that Phillip Scott has Sundanced for over two decades. There are no "Twinkie Sundances." There are only Sundances that do not permit the ego to pass, and there is nothing else. But one cannot take the word of a forum thread in the case of such sacred Medicine. One must meet Phillip Scott for themselves, look at the scars over his body, stare at the lightning in his eyes, and observe his behavior and consequent Medicine.

Phillip Scott never charges for traditional ceremony. Everyone is welcome to observe and experience it for themselves.

Kind Regards,
Adamm
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: debbieredbear on January 13, 2013, 10:15:18 pm
So, inspite of the fact that he lies abut being enrolled, a "Lakota chief" and sells ceremoney, we are supposed to just say "oh, ok, he seems to be sincere"? Sorry, but he is a fake, selling people something he not only doesn't have the rights to, but probably knows little about. AAnd understands less or he wouldn't be doing this,
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Defend the Sacred on January 13, 2013, 10:33:07 pm
In addition to Deb's points above, some of our Indigenous members and non-Indigenous allies have dealt with him personally. They asked him questions that any legitimate person would have been able to answer, and he failed on all counts. It is obvious what he is. We see his sort all the time, and are not fooled by whatever glamour he has pulled over the eyes of his followers.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: educatedindian on January 14, 2013, 12:59:23 am
Hello Adam,
We always welcome firsthand accounts to try and gather as much information as possible. But since we have multiple accounts contradicting yours, some of what you say is hard to believe.

There's also some questions I have about what you say. I added numbers to make it clearer what I'm asking about.


1. I first met Mr. Scott while volunteering at the Labyrinth Guild at Grace Cathedral of San Francisco, a sacred and forward-feeling Christian institution. He was invited to perform musical ceremony at a Labyrinth Event, a type of Medicine Wheel.

2. As soon as I set eyes on Phillip I was impressed. His body language continuously speaks of his authenticity and strength as a human being.

3. Phillip Scott is one of the strongest and most sincere men I have ever met. His word is impeccable and he is as fearless as one gets while doing so much work with the body. [Bolding mine, see why below.]

4...I have never seen him act in any other way but respectful towards the women of his community.

5. It is important to understand that Phillip Scott has Sundanced for over two decades. There are no "Twinkie Sundances." There are only Sundances that do not permit the ego to pass, and there is nothing else.

6. But one cannot take the word of a forum thread in the case of such sacred Medicine.

7. One must meet Phillip Scott for themselves, look at the scars over his body, stare at the lightning in his eyes, and observe his behavior and consequent Medicine.

8. Phillip Scott never charges for traditional ceremony.

1. I'm less than impressed by this place. http://www.gracecathedral.org/visit/labyrinth/
An Episcopal church running a very New Age-influenced "labyrinth" ceremony. Lauren Artess founded the practice. She's best known as faculty at "Wisdom University" an unaccredited degree mill peddling vague claims and knowledge.
And no, what you went through not even remotely like a medicine wheel. First off all, medicine wheels are largely plain old calendars without sacred purpose or medicine. For the tribes for whom they were medicine, they didn't build them so casually, and would not use them outside of their cultural context.

That may seem like a long sidenote and off topic. But it does show to all of us that you don't know much about actual Native traditions.

2. You seriously claim to judge him by body language? Honestly, that makes you sound closer to a groupie with a crush on the man.

3. How do you reconcile your belief that he is "sincere" with all the lies he's been caught in?

I see also you use the buzzwords so beloved by Castaneda followers. I take it you admire him also. Are you aware he was debunked over 30 years ago as an obvious fraud?

4. Again, how do you reconcile this other claim with the other accounts saying the opposite?

5. Nonsense. Of course there are twinkie sundances, and that's all Scott has ever attended or learned from.

A twinkie "sundance" claiming to be the real thing is any one that is mostly or entirely attended by non-Natives. Catering to them alters it, distorts it, and can turn it into a perversion or insult.

Sundances are certainly not a magic bullet. Most actual Natives can point to someone they know who Sundances (at genuine ones) and they still are jerks. Just like Baptism or confirmation or Bar Mitzvah don't guarantee someone is a good Christian or Jew.

Again, this shows you don't know much about Native traditions.

6. Actually one can, about as much as one can take your word, or any other follower of Scott's.

Actually we are far more reliable, because unlike you, we know Native cultures. There are many here who have grown up on the rezzes, were raised in the traditions. That's far more than you, any other follower of Scott's...

...or even Scott himself can claim. Remember, he's a man claiming distant Cheroke ancestry...

...who was taught by white imposters and exploiters like Mary Grimes and Michael Hull...

...their fake version of Lakota tradition.

So that's about three degrees removed from anything remotely genuine Lakota that Scott supposedly knows.

Scott has about as much actual expertise in Lakota tradition as I do in martial arts by watching Jackie Chan films. We've both observed fake versions of the real thing.

7. I've never met Bernie Madoff either. But I don't need to, not to know he's a con man.

8. Again, that contradicts several other accounts we have. How do you reconcile that?
And he doesn't do traditional ceremony anyway, just his three degrees removed exploitation of it.

I wish you well, and that you learn how to tell the true from the fake, not simply fall for it because it makes you feel good.
There are many threads in here you could benefit from reading. Perhaps you should start with the Castaneda ones.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: adam1981 on January 14, 2013, 03:01:04 am
It appears you are discrediting anyone who does not have what you consider sufficiently indigenous phenotype. Elemental Earth medicine is not the monopoly of indigenous people, a very relative term when speaking of the world.

I wanted to offer my experience because I was dismayed by how much anger I found here, a tree universally known to bear only toxic fruit. It does not appear to be the heat of righteous passion, but rather the fire of inquisition. As the wheel turns, unfortunately.

Phillip Scott has not lied. He has expressed his lineage, it has simply not been accepted by certain cultural conservatives. He does not charge for ceremony and everyone is welcome, but he does teach separate paid workshops so that he may earn his living like a man. He acts with a very trained and disciplined virtue, no actual evidence has been presented against this.

I judge everyone by their body language, speech, actions, and the effect they have on their environment and those around them. By these criteria Phillip Scott has very potent Medicine.

I empathize with the aversion for "New Age pseudo-enlightenment." Although I have examined what would count as various New Age teachings, I have settled on only the traditional spiritual scriptures which trace their lineage for thousands of years. I have studied with traditional Hindu and Buddhist teachers and perceive that much of the indigenous elemental wisdom is also expressed in these ancient scriptures.

If one Googles images for "labyrinth" and "medicine wheel" the geometric reasoning components of one's brain will quickly indicate that it is looking at different representations of the same thing. However, you are absolutely correct, my knowledge of Native Medicine is limited, because these practices have very few revealed scriptures accessible to the world. We have seen the historical consequences of such ethnocentricity, it is not a cause for false pride.

Grace Cathedral of San Francisco is one of the most sacred and authentic Christian institutions in the Americas. Again one may determine this by historical context and direct experience. It is not a point worth further debating. I wish you all peace.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Superdog on January 14, 2013, 12:37:35 pm
It appears you are discrediting anyone who does not have what you consider sufficiently indigenous phenotype. Elemental Earth medicine is not the monopoly of indigenous people, a very relative term when speaking of the world.

Lakota traditions are Lakota traditions.  They have the final say in what's right or wrong in their traditions.....not you.

Just because you add the label "Elemental Earth medicine" shows how you separate the two and highlights the reasons why the Lakota so closely guard their spirituality these days. 

Nobody has discredited you....you unfortunately discredited yourself and continued to do so with this post.  Get it straight.  Phillip's medicine wheels, sweatlodges and vision quests are things he learned about Lakota culture.  Not some generic "indigenous tradition".  If you want to learn about Lakota spirituality....do it the way they tell you.  It's not hidden from you, but it's also not as easy as attending a workshop or a "free ceremony" upsell scam.

You sit on a high horse of righteousness Adam, but that was one of the more racist/entitled posts i've seen on here in a while.  You have a lot to learn.

Superdog
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Smart Mule on January 14, 2013, 02:47:42 pm
Hi Adam

I've spoken with Phillip on the phone several times. He came across as very egocentric, an attitude which seems to have bled over to his followers and fans. You have no place making decisions about what is acceptable exploitation of a community and their ceremonies.

Sky
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: adam1981 on January 14, 2013, 04:09:34 pm
Let us please consider that when humans communicate it is all reflection.

I apologize and ask forgiveness if I stepped out of the way in expressing authority over Lakota and other Native American tribal customs.

At the same time I cannot deny that I feel all truth, scientific and spiritual, is public domain. We are all children of the Earth. This does not mean I condone exploitation. Yet everything that is off-center from the wheel must have its counterbalance, in my understanding this is a fundamental truth of elemental medicine, and physics.

But I know of no wisdom on this Earth that teaches angry speech and character assassination lead to wholesome results. Thank you for allowing me to share my perspective.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Defend the Sacred on January 14, 2013, 06:13:33 pm
Adam,

People who do harm need to be stopped. It is not hate you hear. What you hear is a community of people who love and respect the traditions and the true tradition-bearers, and who do not want to see their traditions degraded, sold, twisted and potentially destroyed. It is out of love for the People and the ways of our diverse but allied communities that we, out of love, try to stop those who would do harm.

The idea that all ways are universal and for the taking (or buying) is a concept invented by non-Natives, by people with white privilege who believe they have a right to anything they want. We are asking these exploiters to respect boundaries. To respect the values of the communities whose ceremonies they want to pilfer and use out of context. Without the community, without the values, without the respect, the ceremonies are meaningless.

Insulting the people who live their lives in the communities where these ways are maintained, where their relatives have literally died to defend these traditions, shows us that the person doesn't respect the ceremonies at all. It shows us they want to feel different, like taking a drug. They want the illusion of spiritual growth without the commitment to the community standards that keep the ways healthy. I look at the exploiters and all I see is greed and ego. They have learned to con people, like any con man. But that is what they are - not spiritual leaders, but con men.

Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: adam1981 on January 14, 2013, 07:12:42 pm
Thank you Kathryn for the heartfelt response. I pray this fourth post may be my last here.

As I have come to know Phillip Scott, he teaches and lives almost all these same good things that have been said here in defense of Lakota and traditional ways. He is very protective in his words and actions of Native truths and traditions. The only violation I can see is that the Native persons represented by this forum do not agree he has the right to do so. But aside from that, he himself teaches that exactly this kind of effect can occur when one sings the sacred songs illicitly.

What attracted me to Phillip Scott in spite of his bodily European appearance was exactly the sense of community, values, respect, and profound meaning that is clearly present in his life and work as observed directly. I have found that many potent Teachers of all ancient traditions at times cease to coddle the ego, and different individuals will react to this in different ways.

One has to give their word they are free of any intoxicants 24-hours prior to attending a Purification Lodge with Phillip Scott pouring the water. Sometimes people violate this but it always becomes known within the Initi. The results are not sweet Medicine.

I have seen the con men with psuedo-glamor but little virtue or hard work, so I understand the concerns. I respectfully reiterate that based on prolonged observation this is very far from the truth with Phillip Scott. He is doing a great service to the traditional ways with his excellent and protective practice. His work is strengthening many fruitful trees.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Superdog on January 14, 2013, 07:47:29 pm
Adam I truly meant what I said when I stated you have a lot to learn.  The passive aggressiveness of your apology underlines that, as well your (not the board's) focus on P. Scott's physical appearance.  There are Natives on this board....not all of us have brown skin, dark eyes and long hair.....a bit presumptious of you to think that we do....let's just leave it at that.

I don't deny you learning about Lakota spirituality.  Neither do Lakotas.  Like I said, it's not hidden from you and if you wish to learn, then you should consider learning the way they tell you.  When their spirituality is removed from its context (i.e. non-Native sundances, P. Scott's 'vision quests') what you end up with is interpretation.  If, somehow in your head, you've convinced yourself that Lakota people condone a Christian-like model of prosthelytization of the things they hold most sacred...then you're missing a lot.

You perceive P. Scott one way, however, I see other things.  I recent hour long interview posted on youtube by Phillip reveals a lot.  It's obvious he's learned some things, but its also obvious he covers up things as well.  There's a bit of talking out of both sides of his mouth.  One the one hand, early on he warns about lumping Native peoples into one homogenous melting pot of "indigenous" and that's its offensive....then he spends the rest of the interview doing exactly that.

My impression of him is he carries himself like a Native Studies Anthropologist Professor from the 70's/80's who's been adopted....nothing more. 

I'd also like to point you to a post of another board member concerning adoption and Lakotas:
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1294.0
Posted by earthw7:
"I don't know if this is the area to be put this post but here goes.

The adoption ceremonies of my people the Lakota/Dakota/Nakota are
called Hunka ceremonies.
I would like to explain a little about them.
What they are and what they are NOT.

The adoption ceremonies are a ceremonies to adopt an individual into a family.
When you lose a family member you have the right to adopt a member.
When you are close to a person for a long time you have the right to adopt
them as a member of your family.
This relationship is sarced.

The right as a Hunka relatived are to care for your new family as they care for you.


Now for what they are NOT.
There has never been a person who has been adopted into the Lakota or Dakota or Nakota
Nation. This has not happen in the past nor today.

The Lakota/Dakota/Nakota Nations are in North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Nebraska,
Minnesota, three Canadain States. in order for a person to be adopted into the nation
it would have to be OKed by all of the nations and bands. I can tell it has never happened.

What right the adoptees Do Not have:
They have No Rights to ceremonies,
They have NO Rights to our stories
They have NO Rights to medicine,
They have No Rights to inherit medicine men names,
They have No Right to names,
They have NO Right to speak for our nations
They have No Right to speak for our governments,
They Have No Rights to speak for the adopted families,

If a person claims to be adopted by the Lakota or Dakota or Nakota
If a person claim to be taught medicine by a Lakota or Dakota or Nakota

Beware"


You have a right to your opinion.  But please....don't walk into a room full of Natives and pretend you know more about them then they do.  All your talk of reflection should have you reevaluating your overgeneralizations of the board members, others that post here, or the information on these pages.  Your last post is full of this type of ignorance....

I mean..." he himself teaches that exactly this kind of effect can occur when one sings the sacred songs illicitly."  What the heck are you thinking with a line like that....

Superdog
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on January 15, 2013, 04:22:50 am
Curious on how you, Adam, can say this: "He is very protective in his words and actions of Native truths and traditions. "  and this:  What attracted me to Phillip Scott in spite of his bodily European appearance was exactly the sense of community, values, respect, and profound meaning that is clearly present in his life and work as observed directly."

And yet, he is of distant Cherokee ancestry.. but performing Lakota ceremony? You call this respect? Value? What does he respect? value? Certainly not the Lakota.. and he certainly isn't being protective by taking their ceremonies .. that he has no rights to.. so.. stealing their ceremonies and making them into something else so he can have followers and be looked upon by admiring eyes from people who dote upon him with their thoughts that he is "Someone".

Really. Sometimes, the truth is so much in our faces that we just don't see it. I hope you take a few steps back and gain a wider and clearer view of what this guy is doing to the Lakota people. It isn't respectful, nor of value, and certainly not protective.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: earthw7 on January 15, 2013, 03:38:53 pm
Why? I wonder about all the people who think they know more about my people then
we do they come four two to four years and think they all about us, then they take our
ceremonies which taken a life time to learn, then they adpated them to make life easier
for them, they add things that are not a part of our culture, then we have people claiming to
come from other nation and do our ceremonies like they have no belief in their own people.
The cherokee dont have pipes, dont do Sweat lodges and dont do sundances why would
they not honor their own culture.
They say this man is doing good things they say i say for who?  I say he stole a culture, uses
a way that takes a life time to learn;
he is not helping the Lakota people nor the Cherokee people he is stealing a way to teach
non-natives. Then he is using the way to making a living! That is a Christian concept were
you pay the preist. Not a native concept. Even our spiritual leader get jobs for their living.
In order to run a ceremonie you must speak Lakota-Dakota;sing Lakota-Dakota that is the way.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Defend the Sacred on January 15, 2013, 05:48:02 pm
Spiritual seekers who feel empty can project all kinds of profound illusions onto the wrong people. And when the con man encourages these projections....

Check out this social experiment. The followers will sound very familiar:   http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=3924
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: debbieredbear on January 15, 2013, 06:33:06 pm
and adam, maybe you need to ask yourself why inspite of so much evidence that this man is an exploiter, you NEED to defend him. And why you NEED a guru so badly you will defend people who do bad things. That need is within you and something you should look at. If you don't, you will continue to fall for these kinds of people. Exploiters. Think about it.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: educatedindian on January 16, 2013, 03:50:19 pm
1. It appears you are discrediting anyone who does not have what you consider sufficiently indigenous phenotype. Elemental Earth medicine is not the monopoly of indigenous people, a very relative term when speaking of the world.

2. I wanted to offer my experience because I was dismayed by how much anger I found here, a tree universally known to bear only toxic fruit. It does not appear to be the heat of righteous passion, but rather the fire of inquisition.

3. Phillip Scott has not lied. He has expressed his lineage, it has simply not been accepted by certain cultural conservatives.

4. He does not charge for ceremony and everyone is welcome, but he does teach separate paid workshops so that he may earn his living like a man.

Most of what you say has been addressed by others, but let me add a few final points, for you and any others to see.

1. It's interesting that you inject race into the discussion, reflecting a white western worldview. No one here brought it up, except you. And you sound very much like a Fox News commentator by doing so, claiming whites are being persecuted by those evil dark skinned people.

Obviously we were talking about whether he was part of a Native community. Clearly Scott is not. He peddles to nonNative Nuagers  in Frisco.

2. This is really bizarre. I don't see any anger here at all.  You only imagine that.

Is a pickpocket victim being angry when they tell a cop, "my wallet was stolen." No, that's just a statement of fact.

And you insult the memory of genuine victims of genuine persecution when you conflate people pointing out a con man is in fact a con man with that.

3. Actually Scott's fabricated "lineage" has not been accepted by anyone outside of outsiders, Nuagers and no one else.

It's truly a bizarre bit of denial that you claim literally every other person here is lying, in addition to the accounts by victims of Scott.

4. Ah, I see. He calls a ceremony a workshop and suddenly pay to pray is OK.

And seemingly only pay to pray exploiters are "real men" in your view. Actually working for a living, as real elders do instead of making a buck off of spiritual tradition, somehow makes them lesser men.

So it's not enough to defend Scott. You have to insult traditional elders too.

It may be virtually impossible to get through to you, and you shutting down after your last post seems to show that. But hopefully others can learn from this.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Odelle on January 20, 2013, 04:47:04 am
Hi, Adam.

You seem like a well-meaning person who is truly unaware of the harm that your teacher, Scott, and your own words are doing. People who are "real"--not by "phenotype", but by the requirements of the community--Lakota have come out to criticize Scott's claims in force. There is a simple way for Scott to avoid this criticism and do the right thing. He can stop claiming to be a Lakota tradition-bearer. He can stop calling his ceremonies "sundances". If the religion he practices is so universal, containing truths, as you say, also found in Buddhist and Hindu texts, then why even call it Lakota? Lakota traditions are just that, the traditions of one people, the Lakota. Why not pick a different name? Unless the reason is to fool people who don't know better into thinking that what is being taught is, in fact, a Lakota spiritual practice being taught by a Lakota?

The complaint is always that Indigenous people are "selfish" "racists" who conspire to keep "universal truths" from people just because they are white. If that's really what's going on here, if the people who are criticizing Scott and others are all a bunch of selfish bigots, is their spirituality really something you want, anyway? If Lakota teachings and Hindu and Buddhist teachings are all the same, anyway, doesn't it make more sense to pursue truth from those traditions that welcome converts?
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: CaliNative on January 30, 2013, 03:39:41 am
There is a significant difference between being inside a lodge and observing from a distance.
For nearly ten years I have been one of the principal Fire tenders for Chief Phillip Scott.
This includes the lodges he conducts for the supporters at the Lampasas Texas Sundance.
Not only did I bring in the stones that sweltering year, I directly handed the water into the Chief
(in fact, he brings in water for every lodge). The person sitting 15 feet away was neither in the lodge nor near the door
and is grossly in error.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: earthw7 on January 30, 2013, 03:28:44 pm
There is a significant difference between being inside a lodge and observing from a distance.
For nearly ten years I have been one of the principal Fire tenders for Chief Phillip Scott.
This includes the lodges he conducts for the supporters at the Lampasas Texas Sundance.
Not only did I bring in the stones that sweltering year, I directly handed the water into the Chief
(in fact, he brings in water for every lodge). The person sitting 15 feet away was neither in the lodge nor near the door
and is grossly in error.


As a Lakota/Dakota woman who live my culture and knows my language and my way of life are you telling me
you know more about my culture then i do? "It is like the non native young man who came to my reservation
and we invited him to pray with us when we were done "he said your are doing it wrong"? What? You have to say
AHO! after your prayers, What? Aho is a Kiowa word why would Lakota/Dakota people say Aho it is not our word.
That is a pow-wow word that spread though the pow-wow culture then became a newagers word it is not a Lakota word."
Lesson of who we are take a life time to learn you can not come and particpate in our ways for a short time and think you know
about our ways. A man who charges for prayer no matter what it called is a fraud.
If this man is following Lakota way; why then is he not helping the reseervationn who he claims the teaching come from why is
he is Europe far a way from the Native people. Maybe because we would have to get after him for what he is doing.
So you carried the rocks in the lodge can you tell me the song for the rock carrying and who must sing it.
I find that outsider know so little of our culture, to me persnally this man should be punished for stealing what is not his
for his opersonal gain
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: earthw7 on January 30, 2013, 03:29:34 pm
I forgot how did he become a chief who are the witness and who did the ceremony
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: graydove on February 01, 2013, 10:35:27 pm
Accusations made against Chief Phillip Scott are false.  For example, one contributor to this site stated in November of 2012: “Many of his former students were traumatized by the ordeals they endured, as he is a known manipulator of vulnerable women.  He accepts men into his circle as well, but definitely preys upon the women.”  I have known the Chief for seven years.  He is a leader with integrity and honor.  In this time, I have been acquainted with the majority of women students, as well as many other women (and men) who participate in the ceremonies he conducts.  Contrary to your contributor’s assertions, I would not describe any of these women as particularly “vulnerable” or otherwise incapable of exercising appropriate discrimination in selecting a Spiritual guide.  As an attorney for more than 30 years, I am neither vulnerable nor easily preyed upon.  Actually, the accusations made by your contributor are insulting to women.  To put it bluntly, women are and feel safe with the Chief because he has deep respect and high regard for us.  This is the truth.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on February 01, 2013, 10:40:30 pm
It is the truth, Graydove, that Phillips is making false claims and misappropriating a culture he is not part of. Stealing and bastardizing their ways.

I don't call that respect or high regard for anyone.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Epiphany on February 02, 2013, 01:07:46 am
I as a woman am not insulted by the accusations made against Philip Scott. If I was one of his victims, I would not be insulted by anyone describing me as having been vulnerable to Philip Scott's actions.

I would learn that the fact I was vulnerable to a predator does not mean that I was somehow inferior, less intelligent, or unable to otherwise exercise good judgement. I would learn that predators prey on intelligent strong people too  (including attorneys), that I can learn how to be more discerning next time, and that blaming myself serves no one.

I am however insulted by those who blame victims. Also by predators who send others, such as yourself Graydove, to do their work for them.

Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: PhillipScott on February 02, 2013, 02:11:06 am
On the 26th of June 2012, Mr. Al Carroll sent a rather unkind e-mail as a reply to my request the previous day for expunging my name from the NAF website. After a summer of travel and High ceremonies (including the honour of assisting in an emergency birth during a Sundance on the Rez), I responded in September to his e-mail. Though he gave his word that “all” of our exchanges would be “public” (and I even granted him permission to post it), he failed to include my response. Therefore, it is below:

Good Morning Mr. Carroll,

Returned from summer travels to receive your polemic.

As a preface to this transmission, employing the impersonal medium of the internet for matters of this nature is not my preferred method of communication. Since you have not provided a telephone number, I am resorting to the written word.

A dear friend and colleague of mine, a traditional Medicine man and peacekeeper from Zimbabwe, states there are no enemies simply individuals whose stories we do not know. Therefore, I am not your enemy (personally, concurring with his sentiments, I do not regard you as one either, merely as an individual who is misinformed).

Without equivocation, it is evident from your e-mail you know absolutely nothing about me, my life, Path, sacrifices and service.

As a reminder, in the Native Way, truth and knowledge are derived from direct experience. Since you have never met me nor participated in ceremony with me and therefore lack any direct personal experience, you are neither in a position to assert that I am a "fraud" nor render any judgement whatsoever. In fact such accusations indicate operating from assumptions, here-say, ignorance and projections. Operating from such fallacies, I suspect it applies to the other Chiefs and individuals you condemn in your e-mail as well for your facts and descriptions of them are equally erroneous.

For the record, you were not present at the ceremony on my behalf conducted by Chief Leonard Crow Dog Sr. (with circa four hundred people in attendance, including 6 other Chiefs) in June of 2003. Being one of the original Spiritual leaders of the American Indian Movement, which was instrumental in forging solidarity, pride, visibility and a voice for Indigenous people in North America (and paved the way for other Indigenous Rights organizations), it is disrespectful to speak disparagingly and critically about an elder and warrior who continues to tirelessly serve and literally placed his life on the line for his Nation and other Native peoples.

For your edification, many Sundance ceremonies throughout Turtle Island are now intertribal. There are several nations represented with certain individuals from their peoples being recognized as Ceremonial Chiefs in the Lakota, Dakota, Nakota, and other Plains Nations, traditions. As for myself, faithfully honouring directives from my Ancestors in Dreams, I have Sundanced for the past 20 consecutive years in South Dakota, Texas and Arizona. I have attended and Danced in two Sundances annually since 2004. It does not reflect well upon a person's character who denigrates the service of those who Pray, Dance and literally Sacrifice on behalf of All of our Relations. If you have not done so already, I encourage you to at least support a Sundance in order for you to begin to understand the magnitude and intensity of the ceremony to which I refer.

In the name and spirit of clarity, I have never claimed to be an enrolled member with the CNO. I simply cite my Ancestry. In addition, though adopted, I have made no claim to be a Lakota Chief. Rather, I have been conferred with the role and responsibilities of a ceremonial Chief in the Lakota tradition. My personal biography bears out these distinctions. Trained and sanctioned by old timers (some of whom have already passed into the Spirit World), as for the traditional ceremonies I conduct, there never has been nor will there ever be a charge. Everyone is welcome (including you) and there are no "followers".

Casting aspersions upon my character and reputation and disseminating false information regarding myself (and others) is tantamount to libel and slander.

As previously articulated, rather than further exchanges via the internet, personal conversation with you is preferred and, if warranted, requested.

Trusting I will hear from you directly and possibly learn of your attendance at a Sundance in the future - to witness and experience the Prayers and Sacrifices of the Dancers, Helpers and Chiefs for individuals like yourself and for the benefit of All of our Relations.

Provided it is preserved in its entirety (and per your word, sans telephone numbers and e-mails), I grant you permission to post my response on your website.

Prayers and Blessings to you and your entire family...Hece Tu Elo,
Phillip Scott
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: PhillipScott on February 02, 2013, 03:04:50 am
It has been quite entertaining to read of my purported exploits written by people who have never met me nor have essentially any experience of or with me whatsoever. Equally fascinating that individuals unfamiliar with my personal history can assert who my Medicine teachers have been. For the record, commentators who claim to know (and attempt to cite) with whom I have trained yet have never consulted with me are incorrect.

The root of the word ignorance is to ignore – namely, the truth.  Speculation, assumptions and projections are also forms of ignorance.

Apparently many of the commentators on this website are not well versed in or travelled on the Red Road - otherwise they would understand and respect that what transpires in ceremony, stays within ceremony. Prayers and healing are sacrosanct.

Due to the possibility of promoting further ignorance and misinformation if allegations on this website concerning myself are to be believed, I make this one exception:

For the edification of any readers, who may have little or no exposure to and experience with Native traditions (and therefore be grossly mislead by spurious information on this website), be advised it is common for individuals with serious afflictions who have exhausted all possibilities of assistance within the allopathic paradigm, to seek out Indigenous healing, often as a last resort. This was the case with the epileptic who attended one of the Lodges. What the commentator failed to mention in the post (and therefore observe at the lodge site) was that Sacred Tobacco was offered to request a healing (hence the reason for her specific positioning in the Lodge). She informed and warned me in advance that, on account of the severity of her condition, there was a high probability of a seizure occurring during the ceremony.  Her caveat was correct. Based upon my experience as a ceremonial leader as well as a licensed EMT, she felt confident in my qualifications to make such a request and completely safe in my capabilities to address any situations regarding her welfare that may arise. Her assessment was equally correct. Days after the ceremony, as a follow up, she reported there was a significant decrease in the frequency, intensity and duration of her seizures.

Therefore, in response to the accusation of "seizures" occurring in the traditional Lodges I conduct, there has been only one instance. It was not a result of dehydration, derelict actions or the ceremony itself. It is a matter of causality. The Inipi was not the cause of the seizure. Rather, the seizure was an effect of a preexisting condition (epilepsy), which is the actual underlying cause and the reason for which healing was sought and received.

In truth, the Inipi had a salubrious effect upon her condition. The Spirits Doctored her, diminishing her suffering. Prayers answered.

For those compelled to post negatively with absolutely no direct knowledge of and/or little or no experience with myself, I share a relevant story from the Dharma:

"One evening, the Buddha arose from his meditation and was seated outside the eastern gate of the park where he was staying.  Then, King Pasenadi, arriving for a visit, greeted the Buddha and took a seat to one side.  Just at that time, not so far away, a large group of wandering ascetics was walking by.  Carrying their alms bowls, some of these ascetics wore long matted hair, some were naked, some wore only a single robe, and some were wanderers.  When they had passed by, the king asked the Buddha, "Can any of those ascetics be considered as being either arhats or on the path to arhatship?'  The Buddha responded, 'It is by living a life in common with a person that we learn of that person's moral character; and then only if having insight ourselves, we have watched a person for a long time.  It is only in conversation with a person that we learn of that person's wisdom and clarity of heart; and then only if, having insight ourselves, we have paid attention for a long time.  It is during times of trouble that we learn of another's fortitude; and then only if, having insight ourselves, we have paid careful attention for a long time.'"

In terms of detractors on the website, there has been only one individual – the administrator, Sky Davis – who has spoken with me. Though at the conclusion of our conversation we essentially concurred to agree to disagree, she has my respect and appreciation for she alone has had the courage and understanding to communicate directly with me, which is my preference and according to my experience, the traditional Native way. Hece Tu Elo and Fare Thee Well, Relatives…Mitakuye Oyasin.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: earthw7 on February 02, 2013, 03:12:36 pm
So Phil I am not ignorance of the ways of my people there are My Ways! I live my ways and Oh wait i live on my reservation among my people
i do have that right to tell you that you are doing wrong. Second when we ask who taught you who are your witnesses as people we have the right to know.
Our elder will always start with this who taught me and this who I am related too these are my witnesses. Back in the day we all had four witness that
would stand up and say yes this was done. I have to say the term Red Road was made in the 1970s so it is not an old traditions just
a coin word for those who learned just a little part of our ways. I can tell you our history and culture and i know you are doing wrong.
If you were doing thing right you would be among the Native people helping instead of making money off poor people.
For all you who say you follow our ways why are you not on the reservation helping?
And I know our people and you are judge by what the people say i say you are wrong.
As A. Looking Horse said at a meeting i attended for all of you non native who uses our ways please give back your pipes.
No one should use our ceremonies unless you speak our language all medicine should used to heal the Native people first
then we can help others and right now our people need help instead of people coming and abusing our ways for their personal gain.
Hetcuyelo you are not my relative



If you want to do Buddha then do buddha dont mix it with Native belief then if you want to write my language please write it correctly

Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: earthw7 on February 02, 2013, 03:19:11 pm
oh and we know that Crow Dog has made a lot of fake chiefs
and fake medicine men
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Cetan on February 03, 2013, 01:51:02 am
My godfather who is Dakota enrolled at Ft Peck once said "who ever gave Leonard Crow Dog the right to make chiefs? And if he is going to make people chiefs why is making non LDN people a chief?"
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: earthw7 on February 03, 2013, 02:39:44 am
agree
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: milehighsalute on February 03, 2013, 06:41:00 am
we have laws protecting religious freedom......i wish we had law protecting religious PRIVACY
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: salright on February 07, 2013, 04:04:47 am
I am writing in response to the rhetoric surrounding Chief Phillip Scott.  I have been in close association with the Chief for almost 7 years now.  I have lodged with him many,many times.  Ihave been in every lodge that he's poured for supporters at the Lone Star Sundance since 2007. The reports of misconduct, withholding water in lodges and disrespectful attitudes and acts toward women are completely untrue.  He has deep respect for the feminine - supporting and encouraging us to cultivate and maintain our wisdom and strength and to honor our ceremonies. He is relentless in his protection not only of women but of Mother Earth as well.

There is a claim he did not bring water into one of the supporter lodges at the Lampasas, Texas Sundance. I was in the lodge that year. I can say with certainty that Water was brought in and poured on the stones. He also passed it around for the participants to drink.I cannot remember a time when he hasn't brought water in to the lodge.  To forbid water would be so abhorrent, I would remember. What he actually said was the heat was a way for the supporters to appreciate and understand in some small measure the sacrifice of the Dancers. (He makes a point not to use the term suffering).

Clearly, one of your commentators has never participated in a Lodge. Otherwise s/he would know that dehydration is a consequence of purification in this manner (hence the reason for the common term "sweat").  What distinguishes Chief Phillip from other ceremonial leaders and water pourers is not only does he advise participants to hydrate well prior to entering the Inipi, but coconut water, other electrolyte beverages and water are are available for people to rehydrate afterward.

There is much talk about him but no one is talking WITH him. I would encourage you to speak with the Chief directly.  One of the comments mentions his mentors.  Aware of the traditional Medicine people with whom he's apprenticed, the commentator is inaccurate regarding the Chief's teachers. More unfounded hearsay and gossip on this website. And if there is any question regarding his authenticity of being a Chief, I can tell you this: At the 2007 Sundance, our camp prepared and served lunch to Chief Leonard CrowDog Sr., his wife and his family on one of the days of the dance.  It was raining and had cooled down quite a bit. Many attendees told us how relieved they were to see that we had prepared a hearty, hot meal for them. At the end of the feast, Chief Leonard Crow Dog Sr.  stood up and declared in front of everyone, "Hey nephew! You are a good Chief!"

Take your questions and concerns to Chief Phillip directly.  Better still have the courage to talk with him face to face. It is the respectful thing to do and demonstrates integrity.


Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: educatedindian on February 07, 2013, 09:18:28 am
I am writing in response to the rhetoric surrounding Chief Phillip Scott.  I have been in close association with the Chief for almost 7 years now.  I have lodged with him many,many times.  Ihave been in every lodge that he's poured for supporters at the Lone Star Sundance since 2007. The reports of misconduct, withholding water in lodges and disrespectful attitudes and acts toward women are completely untrue.  He has deep respect for the feminine - supporting and encouraging us to cultivate and maintain our wisdom and strength and to honor our ceremonies. He is relentless in his protection not only of women but of Mother Earth as well.

There is a claim he did not bring water into one of the supporter lodges at the Lampasas, Texas Sundance. I was in the lodge that year. I can say with certainty that Water was brought in and poured on the stones. He also passed it around for the participants to drink.I cannot remember a time when he hasn't brought water in to the lodge.  To forbid water would be so abhorrent, I would remember. What he actually said was the heat was a way for the supporters to appreciate and understand in some small measure the sacrifice of the Dancers. (He makes a point not to use the term suffering).

Clearly, one of your commentators has never participated in a Lodge. Otherwise s/he would know that dehydration is a consequence of purification in this manner (hence the reason for the common term "sweat").  What distinguishes Chief Phillip from other ceremonial leaders and water pourers is not only does he advise participants to hydrate well prior to entering the Inipi, but coconut water, other electrolyte beverages and water are are available for people to rehydrate afterward.

There is much talk about him but no one is talking WITH him. I would encourage you to speak with the Chief directly.  One of the comments mentions his mentors.  Aware of the traditional Medicine people with whom he's apprenticed, the commentator is inaccurate regarding the Chief's teachers. More unfounded hearsay and gossip on this website. And if there is any question regarding his authenticity of being a Chief, I can tell you this: At the 2007 Sundance, our camp prepared and served lunch to Chief Leonard CrowDog Sr., his wife and his family on one of the days of the dance.  It was raining and had cooled down quite a bit. Many attendees told us how relieved they were to see that we had prepared a hearty, hot meal for them. At the end of the feast, Chief Leonard Crow Dog Sr.  stood up and declared in front of everyone, "Hey nephew! You are a good Chief!"

Take your questions and concerns to Chief Phillip directly.  Better still have the courage to talk with him face to face. It is the respectful thing to do and demonstrates integrity.

Sal, hopefully you have enough integrity yourself to stay and talk, and more importantly, listen what actual Natives say rather than an imposter like Scott and imposters like those who run that Texas travesty claiming to be a "sundance." Hopefully you will not do hit and run posting as both Scott and his very poor lawyer defender did.

You apparently  have not read this thread at all. We talked directly to Scott. We told him directly he is a fraud, an imposter posing as a chief, an exploiter who sells ceremony and who falsely claims to be a sundance leader.

He has no mentors except two fellow imposters, two whites who have made a career out of being imposters. That plus a Lakota who did good 30-40 years ago, but has lost much respect for appointing twinkies like Scott as supposed chiefs.

Both Scott and his supporters, including yourself, keep dodging the central questions:
Why does he lie about what he is?
He knows selling ceremony is wrong. Why does he keep doing it?
The obvious answers are:
His own ego being fed by nonNative supporters who don't know any better
...and to keep from having to actually work for a living.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: educatedindian on February 07, 2013, 09:22:26 am
Accusations made against Chief Phillip Scott are false.  For example, one contributor to this site stated in November of 2012: “Many of his former students were traumatized by the ordeals they endured, as he is a known manipulator of vulnerable women.  He accepts men into his circle as well, but definitely preys upon the women.”  I have known the Chief for seven years.  He is a leader with integrity and honor.  In this time, I have been acquainted with the majority of women students, as well as many other women (and men) who participate in the ceremonies he conducts.  Contrary to your contributor’s assertions, I would not describe any of these women as particularly “vulnerable” or otherwise incapable of exercising appropriate discrimination in selecting a Spiritual guide.  As an attorney for more than 30 years, I am neither vulnerable nor easily preyed upon.  Actually, the accusations made by your contributor are insulting to women.  To put it bluntly, women are and feel safe with the Chief because he has deep respect and high regard for us.  This is the truth.

Counselor, I hope you do better than this in court. A first year pre law student could do better. My freshman history students would know better than trying such poor excuses for arguments than you just used.

An argument is not just contradiction. Your post was completely evidence-free.

The only thing you did was ad hominem attacks on those abused by Scott. That makes you the moral verbal equivalent of lawyers who accuse rape victims of being sluts and wanting to be raped because they wore a short skirt or makeup.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: used2bnaf on February 07, 2013, 05:56:24 pm
I feel it is appropriate to respond to these comments.  As I am the "accuser" of Chief Philip Scott withholding water in the lodge.  I arrived at the lodge before everyone got in and stayed for the duration of the lodge.  I was also the last person to leave the area other than the fire keepers.  There was no water poured.  Period.  I spoke about it at length with camp I belonged to.  Crow Camp.

As far as what I would know about sweat lodges, allow me submit my non-Indian resume of experience from walking with Nuagers, and pretendians.

I began going to sweat lodges in 2002. From 2002-2011 I attended (that means I got in the lodge) 2 sweat lodges a month (minimum) during that entire time. 
I was a firekeeper for four years during this time period.
I completed 6 vision quests ceremonies during this time period.
I attended LSSD in 2002,05,06,07,08,09,10.
I do not say these things to brag.  I do not take pride in it.  They are my experiences as a white person, taking what was not mine to take.  Doing what was not mine to do.  Those years now are the reference I have and use to speak out against non natives stealing ceremony.  Whether it is sold, or simply used to inflate egos.  It is stealing and it is wrong.

My regret is that it took all those years to see the harm I was causing the Native Communities, I believed I was supporting.



Roy
aka used2b

As a post note, I never said what year Philip did not pour water in the lodge it was not in 2007 as the above individual presumes.  It was actually in 2005. 

It is interesting when even your nuage pretendians don't acknowledge a bonnet, then also remove your lodge from the dancers area to purify.  Why did they do that Philip?  I was there when your lodge was removed. Even within the LSSD community, conversations come about that you can be a predator, charge stiff fees for ceremonies, etc.  Don't mind me.  Ask those in the LSSD why they say these things about you.  As a metaphor it is similar to the KKK making a blockade against Westboro Baptist Church.  Nobody in this community wishes you harm or to damage you.  We are all saying the same thing.  Stop selling ceremony.  It isn't yours.  Payback what you have taken.  Apologize for lying.

I have spent the last year doing just these things.  It is hard, and scary, and sad.  It is also freedom from racism, bigotry, and lies.

Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on February 08, 2013, 03:11:05 am
I notice the people who come defending Scott, simply skip over the fact, the truth, that sacred ceremony is only to be run by a member of that culture.

For sake of argument, let's say someone is doing these ceremonies w/o charge and actually are being a good person in every way, it would matter not. It is still stealing something that doesn't belong to them, and still running a ceremony that they've stolen from a culture, a people, they are not part of, and do not have the life long understanding of, and have no permission to do this. So it is wrong. Bottom line, it's theft of a people's sacred ceremony and anyone with any respect or integrity would never do this.

The defenders of Scott seem to miss this point, going on about what a great guy he is.. and none of it matters. He is running ceremony he has no business running.. that is not his, and that the people who these ceremonies belong to are saying he is not authorized, has not permission to take their sacred ways and use them. He is a thief. Why do the defenders *miss* this? It's all that matters.. and yet they skip over it as though it doesn't matter at all..

And I seriously highly doubt *anyone* becomes a "chief" because someone said.. "hey, you're a good chief".. LOL that's got to be one of the stupidest things yet..  ::)
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: robert8 on February 09, 2013, 06:35:48 am
Just my old observation. There's been a lot of stealing of native people's identity,ceremonies,etc. for a long time,that's for sure.There is more than that but I want to be brief please. I don't see or hear of anybody posing as a Rabbi,or declaring they are a Rabbi because of a grain of Jewish blood.Probably because it dosen't sell. In a land of no culture,it is easy to understand but not for those doing it. They just don't get it or don't want to. Ignorance or arrogance,& I think some of both.It makes me disgusted to be a human being to see or hear of others doing shameful things. The new ager motto of "just be yourself" is a lie,because it usually is at the expense of others. So,I say to Scott,just be yourself,be an EMT or whatever because those other clothes you wear don't fit. And why don't you acknowledge the other bloods in your ancestry & do their ceremonies,etc.? It dosen't sell,not good for marketing? I thought so. Look at who you really are without the chief status,without the sweat lodge,etc. & ask why you need to be doing these things.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: educatedindian on February 14, 2013, 12:56:56 pm
I received an account by a former follower of Scott's. They wish to remain anonymous and describe Ancestral Voices as a cult or cult-like. This person describes frequent verbal abuse by Scott of his followers, and occasional physical abuse, one follower being injured by Scott who then laughed about it.

They supplied the contract Scott's followers have to sign. It supports the description of Ancestral Voices as a cult and also shows Scott as influenced by Nuage fraud Joseph Rael and Euro paganism. Scott's group celebrates Euro pagan holidays like Samhain.

Scott's partner is Nicole Dos Santos, who says she is "part Cherokee and Lakota." Santos does much of the recruiting. She goes by the name Pte Win...Buffalo Calf Woman. Yet another Nuager claiming that...

Contract excerpts below. Notice British English spellings throughout, and notice all the ways followers are controlled, with loyalty pledged to Scott above all else.

-----------
Guideline for Indigenous Lifeway, The Way of the Mystic
1. Honour committments to program...
Program takes priority when conflicts with other spiritual programs or teachers arise.

2. Recognize Phillip as guide and teacher...

3. Honour lineage...

5. Interpersonal dynamics...
Allow self to be seen and be vulnerable
Willingness to be uncomfortable

6. Keep temporal and financial commitments...
...attend all events.
...make all payments on time.

8. If extreme circumstances warrant departure...closing session is mandatory...

11. Teacher has prerogative to curtail involvement.

Pg 2 of contract

Furthermore it is student's responsibility to contact teacher to arrange monthly sessions. Failure to contact results in loss of that month's session.

All tasks are to be completed...

Sacred Hoops is compulsory for local students.

Students are required to support one hanblechya before going on their own vision quest.

...first phase students are not permitted to attend Sundance...

If student gives his word, the word must be honoured with no exceptions or excuses.

...If tobacco is gifted, student must fulfill the covenant, regardless of circumstances.

3-4 day fasts are required at solstices and equinoxes...Ceremonies need to be performed on full moons, four days after full moons, solstices, equinoxes, Imbolc, Beltaine, Lamas, Samhain.

...Before visiting other medicine people/spiritual teachers...students will first check with teacher...

If student intends to represent Ancestral Voice...student will obtain clearance beforehand.

When violations...occur, the sequence...is, verbal warning, written warning, written request for termination, closing session.

...No refunds are granted and tuition is paid in entirety, even if student departs prematurely....

As Joseph Rael, Beautiful Painted Arrow would counsel, don't take life personally and see universal principles.

Pg 3 of contract
I have read all guidelines...and will comply with all protocols...

I select the following payment structure...I understand all tuition is nonrefundable...

Signatures below confirm binding nature of this agreement.
[Student signature]
[Phillip Scott signature]
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Ingeborg on February 14, 2013, 04:14:11 pm
Notice British English spellings throughout

Not quite - they are spelling 'program', while the British English spelling should read 'programme':

Quote
Guideline for Indigenous Lifeway, The Way of the Mystic
1. Honour committments to program...
Program takes priority when conflicts with other spiritual programs or teachers arise.

'Commitment' is also misspelled in the text. So the contract may have been written by more than one person, or by one person with spelling problems.

Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Epiphany on February 14, 2013, 05:56:51 pm
In the book Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism eight psychological  themes are detailed of thought reform totalitarian  groups:

Milieu Control
Mystical Manipulation
The Demand for Purity
The Cult of Confession
The "Sacred Science"
Loading the Language
Doctrine Over Person
The Dispensing of Existence

http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing19.html (http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing19.html)

Scott's group hits all the destructive cultic group notes. I hope everyone gets away from him and his crew fast.

Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Epiphany on February 14, 2013, 07:02:37 pm
Quote
The traditional path

Phillip Scott, founder-director of Ancestral Voice - Center for Indigenous Lifeways in Novato, who leads traditional vision quests twice a year in the foothills of Mount Lassen, adheres to strict Lakota protocols of no food, water or sleep for four days and nights. No sunscreen, journal or shelter, not even a sleeping bag. "In the old days you took a buffalo robe," said Scott, who is of Western Band Cherokee ancestry and a ceremonial leader in the Lakota tradition. "Now you can take one blanket."

http://www.sfgate.com/health/article/Vision-quests-remove-spirit-work-distractions-3245205.php#page-2 (http://www.sfgate.com/health/article/Vision-quests-remove-spirit-work-distractions-3245205.php#page-2)
-------
And from Phillip Scott himself:

Quote
Undoubtedly there are gurus, healers and spiritual teachers of questionable authority, accountability, scruples and experience in the world. The best antidote to safeguard oneself and others from misfortune is to be aware and pay attention - open one's eyes and ears – and, at an appropriate moment, to simply ask questions regarding their qualifications. Based upon their reply, your impression and feelings - make an informed determination.

This is your right and ultimately, it may save your life.

Insta-Shamans - Just Add Ego:
Shortcuts, Self Importance & Colonialism http://www.openexchange.org/features/JFM11/scott_phillip.html (http://www.openexchange.org/features/JFM11/scott_phillip.html)

Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Epiphany on February 14, 2013, 08:36:14 pm
Gleanings from his site http://www.ancestralvoice.org (http://www.ancestralvoice.org)

Quote
I express my heartfelt gratitude to Unci (Grandmother) Chipps, Grandfather Wallace Black Elk, Charles Chipps, Lessert Moore and Lynn Valentine for the wisdom, healing and medicine they have bestowed upon our community through the purification lodge ceremonies they have performed.

Quote
Upon returning from the Sundance this year with a novel role and considerably more responsibilities for myself, we - my students, community and I - were honoured by the presence of one of my first Medicine Teachers- Tsloot koi yeh (Beautiful Painted Arrow), Joseph Rael- whom I had not seen in seven years.

Quote
Finally, the not for profit organization, Global Alliance for Balance and Healing, is now officially serving as my fiscal sponsor. Donations of any denomination are now tax deductible. If you care to contribute, please draft checks and address them to myself.

http://www.globalalliance.ws/pages/home (http://www.globalalliance.ws/pages/home)
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: moreinfo on February 14, 2013, 10:23:59 pm
it appears that these traits listed in the links below are common to these frauds and exploiters .
some of if not all of these cult like characteristics and definitions listed are common and prevalent in their teachings". they use these methods/techniques to indoctrinate you to follow the leaders agenda, and in the worse cases to become very devout true believers that literally takes over your life.and its all for money,power and control.
so buyer beware -research and ask as many questions as you can before you join any group,

these links maybe helpful to recognize and get a better understanding about cults,they are now called HIGH DEMAND GROUPS,which is a more politically correct name that makes it easier for people to talk about these groups.

http://www.spiritwatch.org/idrelab.htm

http://www.dreichel.com/Checklist_of_Cult_Characte.htm

http://www.spiritwatch.org/cultworld.htm

http://www.spiritwatch.org/cultdef.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritual_abuse

this site is also helpful to understand these groups

http://www.enlightened-spirituality.org/Warning_signs_of_dysfunctional_cults.html

Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: educatedindian on February 18, 2013, 03:55:25 pm
Scott emailed me. His bottom line and control of his cult is being threatened, so he's trying empty legal threats. Below is his email followed by my response.

-----------
From: Phillip Scott
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 9:42 PM
Subject: Copyright Violation
 
Good Evening Mr. Carroll,

It has been brought to my attention a copy of the contract for my Center's program has been posted on your site.

Be advised the document is copyright protected and must be removed immediately.

Though the 1st amendment affords the freedom to express yourself (even if the content is apocryphal)
it does not grant you the right to infringe upon copyright laws.

Thank you,
Phillip Scott

Notice of Confidentiality: This transmission contains confidential information legally privileged or otherwise protected. This information is intended only for the individual(s) named above. You are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited.

-----------
Re: Alleged Copyright Violation

Nice of you to provide yet more proof that you are all about cash and the spiritual pose is a front.

It took you almost six years to respond to being correctly listed as an imposter posing as a Lakota spiritual leader. But threats to your bottom line and to the exposure of cult-like control of your followers get a response in only a few days.

There is no copyright listed on the document itself. Provide proof of copyright, more than just you claiming so.

Be advised also that even if there is a copyright, there have never been any laws preventing excerpts from being posted of copyrighted work, as was done with your contract. 

Be advised also that copyright law does not prevent summaries or paraphrasing of copyrighted documents.

Attempts to misuse copyright law to silence criticism by us has been tried before by other Nuage frauds, and it was equally unsuccessful. Not once in a decade and a half have such efforts ever worked.

Your knowledge of the law is as poor as your knowledge of Native spiritual traditions and ceremonies. It's third hand at best, very limited, and does not exist so you or your little cult can hide your lack of ethics.

This and all other communications will be posted online for all to see.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Superdog on February 20, 2013, 07:29:37 pm
Looks like he authenticated the document for everyone.

On another note here's a listing to buy "tickets" for a sweatlodge on a page called Lovespring.org 

Here's the listing on Lovespring for a sweat back in November.

http://www.lovespring.org/san-francisco-events/upcoming-meetings/155-11-4purification-lodge

If you go to "Purchase tickets"  you get sent here:
http://purificationlodge.eventbrite.com/

" LoveSpring
Sunday, November 4, 2012 from 11:00 AM to 4:00 PM (PST)
Petaluma Ca,
   
Purification (Sweat) Lodge with Chief Blackhorse
Ticket Information
Ticket Type                                                                            Sales End  Price    Fee            Quantity
Sweatlodge (includes wood, ceremony), Bring potluck item    Ended    $35.00    $2.92    N/A
Respectful Donation                                                            Ended                                    N/A"



That's straight up selling tickets for a sweatlodge....no other way to put it.

Superdog
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: educatedindian on March 07, 2013, 01:54:57 pm
Scott and has people have not shown themselves again, though clearly they do keep an eye on us. His control over them seems absolute, ordered to come here and then not a single one of them tried to talk beyond giving a hit and run endorsement of Scott.

Scott claims to have Cherokee ancestry, but if so it's pretty distant. In fact, looking up his full name, his ancestry is pretty elite.

His grandfather was Allan Scott, who wrote Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers films, was a Rhodes Scholar and graduated from the very upper crust schools of Amherst and Oxford.
http://www.gomolo.com/celeb/allan-scott-and-fred-astaire-movies-list/61393/131767
http://articles.latimes.com/1995-04-17/news/mn-55662_1_allan-scott

 

I received an account from a former follower of Scott's. They describe what it's like in essentially a cult.

Scott studied under Chogyam Trungpa, an incredibly controversial Buddhist teacher who had relations with many female students and was a heavy drinker and cocaine user. Scott also taught at Andrew Weil's school, an altmedicine type.

Scott also claims to have been taught by the late Archie Fire Lame Deer, a Lakota who sold ceremony in Europe, son of the famed John Fire Lame Deer.

It's interesting that Scott, in his emails to me, only claimed to have lineage from two white imposters, Mary Grimes and Michael Hull, as well as being made“chief” by Crow Dog, who other Lakotas in here have said has no power to make chiefs.

Scott also claims to his followers that a near death experience at six years old from spirits told him he would be a Lakota and Cherokee spiritual leader. Why then would he study Buddhism and teach altmedicine? If he did talk to spirits, they deceived him, or he didn't listen, because he also went to white imposters to learn.

Scott is verbally abusive to all new members to try and break them down. The new members put up with it because they have already paid "tuition" and are also bound to him by contract.

The cult tries to break ties between families, between parents and children and between husbands and wives. Scott claims to speak to spirits and that is used as proof of his authority. He also claims that people who hate him are using bad spirits to try and attack him.

Quite a few people come out of sweats dizzy, have to lie down. Scott takes flesh offerings with a scalpel at his version of Sun Dances.
 
There are also ceremonies in those other “centers of Lakota culture” Puerto Rico and Hawaii. His group also sells the Nuage soul retrieval ceremony for $150, in addition to selling sweatlodges.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Otter3 on March 07, 2013, 03:40:46 pm
Scott takes flesh offerings from members and students who volunteer at meetings before he goes to Sun Dances.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: milehighsalute on March 07, 2013, 05:01:33 pm
the flesh offerings by blade are called "buffalo rounds"........my lakota friends are APPALLED that a non-indian is claiming to have the right to perform them
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Superdog on March 07, 2013, 05:34:04 pm
Phillip's "Indigenous Lifeways Meetup" group. 

Here's a post of an upcoming "Medicine Wheel Ceremony"....he's doing some serious bs'ing here:
http://www.meetup.com/Indigenous-Lifeways-Meetup-Group/events/104524842/
"The Medicine Wheel is an ancient, powerful tool employed by Indigenous peoples throughout the world for health and healing. We assemble atop Mt. Tamalpais, the Sacred mountain in Marin, for a ceremony to create a Medicine Wheel in honour and celebration of the Equinox and to pray for All of our Relations.

Appropriate ceremonial attire is required. Also, please dress in layers and prepare for all weather phenomena. A feast follows the ceremony. There is never a charge through respectful donations are customary and appreciated. Please contact organizer for further information and protocols."


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The bold is mine.  He puts this tag line for every meeting he sets up (including the regular sweatlodges he advertises).  This short blurb about medicine wheels is made up by Phillip....loads of bs.  This group...appears more like fishing for new "students".  All the posts created by Phillip.  All questions posted in the comments are never answered by Phillip publicly, but occasionally one of the members will point the Ancestral Voices website or direct the question to the "Chief" himself.

http://www.meetup.com/Indigenous-Lifeways-Meetup-Group/

You'll also find all events crossposted to another group called "Bay Area Native Americans" (which he also is a member of the "leadership team"
http://www.meetup.com/BayAreaNativeAmericans/members/?op=leaders

Superdog
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Julianw on March 16, 2013, 02:07:29 am
I have known and been associated with Chief Phillip Scott for seven years. As a result of my commitment, I have participated in numerous ceremonies. He has taught me the values of an Indigenous Way of Life. Although he can be demanding, I experience him to always exhibit equal respect towards women and men. In fact, when I first met the Chief I was impressed by his clear behavior towards women, and this was one reason that I chose to align with him. Throughout my time, I have felt respected as a woman and I have learned to conduct myself with a greater awareness in my sacred roles as a mother and wife. I’ve never experienced or observed mixed messages in his interactions with women. He consistently displays a true intent and fixed focus upon purification, prayer and community. There has never been a charge for ceremony. The Chief’s tireless devotion and dedication to prayer, healing and service are a testimony to his walk within these ways; there has never been just talk.  He has been and continues to be a significant mentor and ceremonial leader in my life, for which I am truly grateful.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: used2bnaf on March 16, 2013, 02:53:07 am
How do you justify following a non-lakota performing Native American Ceremony?

How do you justify your behavior, being a non-lakota, and practicing it, and possibly other Native traditions that are not yours to participate in?


These are just two of the the questions that come to mind.  There may be  more later.


Roy
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Epiphany on March 16, 2013, 03:21:06 pm
I have known and been associated with Chief Phillip Scott for seven years. As a result of my commitment, I have participated in numerous ceremonies. He has taught me the values of an Indigenous Way of Life. Although he can be demanding, I experience him to always exhibit equal respect towards women and men. In fact, when I first met the Chief I was impressed by his clear behavior towards women, and this was one reason that I chose to align with him. Throughout my time, I have felt respected as a woman and I have learned to conduct myself with a greater awareness in my sacred roles as a mother and wife. I’ve never experienced or observed mixed messages in his interactions with women. He consistently displays a true intent and fixed focus upon purification, prayer and community. There has never been a charge for ceremony. The Chief’s tireless devotion and dedication to prayer, healing and service are a testimony to his walk within these ways; there has never been just talk.  He has been and continues to be a significant mentor and ceremonial leader in my life, for which I am truly grateful.

This is a sales pitch. This is "testimony" from a member (if not Scott himself) of a destructive high demand cultic group. It is an effort to recruit, police the borders between Scott's perceived us vs them, and to maintain group tension.

Why do I know this? Because I could have written it myself 30 some years ago when I was a member of another high demand cultic group. A fellow member of that group wrote a letter just like this one to the local newpaper in defense of our leaders.

This is all part of the orchestrated dance around a cult leader.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: earthw7 on March 16, 2013, 05:31:58 pm
Its a shame a real shame people are reduced to blindly following a man
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Otter3 on March 16, 2013, 07:34:40 pm
Quote from: Julianw on Today at 02:07:29 AM
"I have known and been associated with Chief Phillip Scott for seven years. As a result of my commitment, I have participated in numerous ceremonies. He has taught me the values of an Indigenous Way of Life. Although he can be demanding, I experience him to always exhibit equal respect towards women and men. In fact, when I first met the Chief I was impressed by his clear behavior towards women, and this was one reason that I chose to align with him. Throughout my time, I have felt respected as a woman and I have learned to conduct myself with a greater awareness in my sacred roles as a mother and wife. I’ve never experienced or observed mixed messages in his interactions with women. He consistently displays a true intent and fixed focus upon purification, prayer and community. There has never been a charge for ceremony. The Chief’s tireless devotion and dedication to prayer, healing and service are a testimony to his walk within these ways; there has never been just talk.  He has been and continues to be a significant mentor and ceremonial leader in my life, for which I am truly grateful."

This is a sales pitch. This is "testimony" from a member (if not Scott himself) of a destructive high demand cultic group. It is an effort to recruit, police the borders between Scott's perceived us vs them, and to maintain group tension.

Why do I know this? Because I could have written it myself 30 some years ago when I was a member of another high demand cultic group. A fellow member of that group wrote a letter just like this one to the local newpaper in defense of our leaders.

This is all part of the orchestrated dance around a cult leader.


Epiphany, Strong words!  I agree with you. 

Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Otter3 on March 16, 2013, 07:35:52 pm
Would someone please explain to me how to set up my posts properly!  Thanks!
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Superdog on March 16, 2013, 08:57:02 pm
There has never been a charge for ceremony.

Not true, in fact I linked previously to a site where you can buy tickets for one of his sweats over the internet...and if you feel so inclined, donate a little more....and please don't disrespect our Lakota members by calling him "Chief".  He's not recognized as such in their communities.

Superdog
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Autumn on March 17, 2013, 04:55:52 am
Would someone please explain to me how to set up my posts properly!  Thanks!

Press the "Quote" button at the right top of the post you are responding to and type your response after the end bracket.

If you are copying a quote from another website, copy it, and in your message press the button inside your message that looks like a quote (sixth button from the right), and paste your message between the quotes.

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: educatedindian on March 17, 2013, 07:16:10 pm
I have known and been associated with Chief Phillip Scott for seven years. As a result of my commitment, I have participated in numerous ceremonies. He has taught me the values of an Indigenous Way of Life. Although he can be demanding, I experience him to always exhibit equal respect towards women and men. In fact, when I first met the Chief I was impressed by his clear behavior towards women, and this was one reason that I chose to align with him. Throughout my time, I have felt respected as a woman and I have learned to conduct myself with a greater awareness in my sacred roles as a mother and wife. I’ve never experienced or observed mixed messages in his interactions with women. He consistently displays a true intent and fixed focus upon purification, prayer and community. There has never been a charge for ceremony. The Chief’s tireless devotion and dedication to prayer, healing and service are a testimony to his walk within these ways; there has never been just talk.  He has been and continues to be a significant mentor and ceremonial leader in my life, for which I am truly grateful.

Julian is usually a male name, though I suppose it could be female. If not, a pretty clumsy mistake.
Clumsier a mistake was that the IP address shows Indiana, not the Bay Area of CA where Scott operates.

"Julian" or any other of Scott's followers, why don't you talk to us instead of these single drive by postings, robotic endorsements of Scott that all read like they were written by the same person?

There's even the same clumsy mistake of repeating Castaneda's famously meaningless Nuage buzzwords, "intent" and "align."
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Epiphany on March 17, 2013, 11:48:53 pm
Awhile back I emailed the Ancestral Voice info address, asking who Scott's Cherokee ancestor is, but the email bounced right back, with an error msg of full inbox on their end.

So, Phillip Scott, who is this ancestor? Since you claim this and build quite a bit of your reputation on this ancestry, the name and life of this ancestor surely is something you are proud of and can easily share.

Your ancestry on your father's side can be pieced together with public records. You have an interesting heritage of screenwriting, film production, acting, and other creative endeavors in your family.

I've not yet found any sign of Cherokee ancestry, where does it come from in your family?

Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Otter3 on March 18, 2013, 01:52:37 am
Autumn, thank you.   :)
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Superdog on March 20, 2013, 10:37:34 pm
An upcoming event in Scott's Indigenous Lifeways meetup. 

http://www.meetup.com/Indigenous-Lifeways-Meetup-Group/events/104525532/
"Wednesday, March 27, 2013

7:30 PM

In honour of Grandmother's fullness, we gather to pray, to release and to celebrate. Through Sacred Native Song, Drum and music, She and the Ancestors are invoked, providing direction and healing for ourselves and our relations. The ceremony, which includes the sharing of a Canunpa Wakan (Sacred Pipe), is conducted in a traditional manner.

Appropriate ceremonial attire is required. A feast follows. There is never a charge though respectful donations are customary and appreciated. Please contact the organizer for further information regarding protocols."



When you're a guest and you're invited to someone's home to sing, pray and eat...it's not customary to then offer them money....for inviting you I guess.  That would be insulting. 

Phillip, please stop misrepresenting what you call traditional manner or protocol.  These are your ways.  Own up to it.

Superdog
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Otter3 on March 23, 2013, 07:42:37 pm
An upcoming event in Scott's Indigenous Lifeways meetup. 

http://www.meetup.com/Indigenous-Lifeways-Meetup-Group/events/104525532/
"Wednesday, March 27, 2013

7:30 PM

In honour of Grandmother's fullness, we gather to pray, to release and to celebrate. Through Sacred Native Song, Drum and music, She and the Ancestors are invoked, providing direction and healing for ourselves and our relations. The ceremony, which includes the sharing of a Canunpa Wakan (Sacred Pipe), is conducted in a traditional manner.

Appropriate ceremonial attire is required. A feast follows. There is never a charge though respectful donations are customary and appreciated. Please contact the organizer for further information regarding protocols."



When you're a guest and you're invited to someone's home to sing, pray and eat...it's not customary to then offer them money....for inviting you I guess.  That would be insulting. 

Phillip, please stop misrepresenting what you call traditional manner or protocol.  These are your ways.  Own up to it.

Superdog

 I agree with you, Superdog.  There is always a request for donations.  Phillip never does this himself; someone else asks, as if this makes it okay.
Of course this isn't traditional, since none of the followers are Native Americans, asking for donations to offset costs seems reasonable.  Besides, it's part of how he makes his living.  By the way, the donation basket at his home is placed on top of a toy stuffed white buffalo.   :-[
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Otter3 on March 31, 2013, 02:05:00 am
More about Phillip Scott:   
He says that he is a Heyoka.  This can be confusing during ceremonies if he decides to change things.
 He says that he was given a "bundle" to be a Yuwipi man. 
He tells people that his organization isn't a cult because followers worship the Creator, not him.  He talks at length about this and mentions Jim Jones. 
 He calls NAFPS a hate group.
 He says that if anyone says they're a shamen, they're not.
He says that he faces discrimination because he doesn't look like a Native; he looks white. 

Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Epiphany on March 31, 2013, 04:24:55 pm
More about Phillip Scott:   
He says that he is a Heyoka.  This can be confusing during ceremonies if he decides to change things.
 He says that he was given a "bundle" to be a Yuwipi man. 
He tells people that his organization isn't a cult because followers worship the Creator, not him.  He talks at length about this and mentions Jim Jones. 
 He calls NAFPS a hate group.
 He says that if anyone says they're a shamen, they're not.
He says that he faces discrimination because he doesn't look like a Native; he looks white.

He's using "heyoka" as an excuse, other frauds use "crazy wisdom", "trickster", and the like. Part of the con game to say "don't look at my hands, look over there, this isn't my hand on your wallet, I can do no wrong cause I'm crazy wise heyoka coyote trickster super special!". Plus supposedly none of us can understand his brilliance fully because we aren't special like he is.

Many cult leaders talk on and on about how they aren't cult leaders. The leader of the group I was part of asked me directly if I thought I was in a cult, because I was a loyal member of the cult I shook my head and replied "No, not at all.".

If he truly was all about people having their own spiritual integrity, he wouldn't have followers. He wouldn't rip off other cultures.  He wouldn't be here on this forum as a Fraud.

Claiming that NAFPS is a hate group and that he himself is discriminated against - all part of the con artist play book. In order to keep a cult group together there has to be an Enemy. There has to be an Other pointed to as the source of all the problems. This keeps his group in a tense, stressed mode so they are more likely to stick close to him.

He's using words like "hate group" and "discrimination" as buzz words, to draw followers close, and to confuse the actual issues. He's certainly not the only one who does this. Neo-nazis claim that civil rights group are hate groups. White racists claim that they are discriminated against because they are white.

He keeps his followers stressed and presents himself and his "teachings" as the solution to the stress.

So the answer is for followers to get away from him, read up on psychological abuse / con games / cults, and enjoy their lives.




Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Otter3 on April 03, 2013, 05:59:36 pm
More about Phillip Scott:   
He says that he is a Heyoka.  This can be confusing during ceremonies if he decides to change things.
 He says that he was given a "bundle" to be a Yuwipi man. 
He tells people that his organization isn't a cult because followers worship the Creator, not him.  He talks at length about this and mentions Jim Jones. 
 He calls NAFPS a hate group.
 He says that if anyone says they're a shamen, they're not.
He says that he faces discrimination because he doesn't look like a Native; he looks white.

He's using "heyoka" as an excuse, other frauds use "crazy wisdom", "trickster", and the like. Part of the con game to say "don't look at my hands, look over there, this isn't my hand on your wallet, I can do no wrong cause I'm crazy wise heyoka coyote trickster super special!". Plus supposedly none of us can understand his brilliance fully because we aren't special like he is.

Many cult leaders talk on and on about how they aren't cult leaders. The leader of the group I was part of asked me directly if I thought I was in a cult, because I was a loyal member of the cult I shook my head and replied "No, not at all.".

If he truly was all about people having their own spiritual integrity, he wouldn't have followers. He wouldn't rip off other cultures.  He wouldn't be here on this forum as a Fraud.

Claiming that NAFPS is a hate group and that he himself is discriminated against - all part of the con artist play book. In order to keep a cult group together there has to be an Enemy. There has to be an Other pointed to as the source of all the problems. This keeps his group in a tense, stressed mode so they are more likely to stick close to him.

He's using words like "hate group" and "discrimination" as buzz words, to draw followers close, and to confuse the actual issues. He's certainly not the only one who does this. Neo-nazis claim that civil rights group are hate groups. White racists claim that they are discriminated against because they are white.

He keeps his followers stressed and presents himself and his "teachings" as the solution to the stress.

So the answer is for followers to get away from him, read up on psychological abuse / con games / cults, and enjoy their lives.


Thank you, Epiphany.  I didn't realize there were so many subtle things going on.  There really was a lot of control that I was unaware of, but now that I look back on it, with this information, I see it. 
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Epiphany on April 03, 2013, 08:32:05 pm
Quote
One must meet Phillip Scott for themselves, look at the scars over his body, stare at the lightning in his eyes, and observe his behavior and consequent Medicine.

Quote
I judge everyone by their body language, speech, actions, and the effect they have on their environment and those around them. By these criteria Phillip Scott has very potent Medicine.

Quote
He is doing a great service to the traditional ways with his excellent and protective practice. His work is strengthening many fruitful trees.

Quote
As a preface to this transmission, employing the impersonal medium of the internet for matters of this nature is not my preferred method of communication.

The first  3 quotes are from people who say they are followers of Scott in this thread, the last one from Scott himself.

Notice how the quotes from followers are from devotees, they are enchanted with Scott, they are under his charismatic sway. The language is also sort of weirdly sexualized, lots of virility metaphors. Scott has seduced them, he has convinced them that he is potent, virile, and can strengthen fruitful trees. And he transmits. In other words: he's the man.

So, since he is the man there are going to be those who have crushes on him, who want to be like him, who want him as their lover, father, husband, brother - all the man stuff. They are going to crave being seen by him, acknowledged.

This is charisma and seduction at work.

Something that can help people get further free of him is to start describing his actions (at least in their own mind) as "he's a jerk". "He's being a jerk.". "He's full of b.s.". Anything that comes to mind that is plain and simple fact. No intricate philosophy, nothing that uses Scott's language. Scott is using loaded language, which can be confusing and keep people in that trance, so simple common expressions can really aid in getting free of him.

Another thing that can help is to pay attention to his "poor me" act. Poor Phillip Scott, he is so persecuted, and all he wants to do is help humanity. He's so virile and magical, surely we all should follow him. Not.

My guess is that there is inner turmoil in this group, that Scott cultivates. Cults do well to have inner and outer circles, along with a chosen "enemy" to focus attention on.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: educatedindian on April 04, 2013, 01:33:53 pm

 He calls NAFPS a hate group.

He says that he faces discrimination because he doesn't look like a Native; he looks white.

How would these two pieces of nonsense even work?

A multi racial multi faith group is somehow a "hate" group?

And he faces discrimination because he looks (and is) white?

If he looks white, obviously he won't face discrimination as an NDN. No being hassled by cops or white racists.

He's obviously never been called a redskin or prairie nigger, never had a redneck tried to pick a fight with him. Never had little kids put their hands over their mouths and make whooping sounds.

So how are w mean mean brown skinned people supposed to have discriminated? Did we deny him housing? Jobs? Arrest him? Hassle him on the street?

No we obviosuly have no power to do that. The "discrimination" apparently is simply pointing out he's a white imposter posing as a medicine man.
Yes, white. He's obviously far more white than any ALLEGED Native ancestry. There's no evidence at all of him being Cherokee, and culturally he's not either.

What he does instead is con people while doing poor imitations of Lakota ceremony he learned only from fellow white imposters and con artists, Mary Grimes and Michael Hull.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: earthw7 on April 04, 2013, 03:32:42 pm
Its because we object to him playing Indian medicine man
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: PhillipScott on May 21, 2013, 01:54:30 am
Though a few of the critical commentators on the site convey the impression of and even directly represent themselves as being educated, it is ironic that all of the myopic theories posited, the false narratives and erroneous conclusions drawn are not particularly intelligent and indicate a lack of the most fundamental of Indigenous attributes - namely, common sense.

As previously articulated, there never has been, nor will there even be, a charge for ceremony. I serve all beings equally, without prejudice. Consequently, this involves interacting and being of service to individuals, groups and organizations oft times wholly unfamiliar with Native practices and Sacred protocols. The Love Spring community is a case in point. The organizer contacted me to sponsor a Purification Lodge. After providing her with the specifics, she, without my knowledge or review, drafted a document announcing the ceremony with misinformation regarding a charge, sent a broadcast e-mail to their members and posted it on their website. Once it was brought to my attention, I immediately notified the organizer who rectified the situation by sending another e-mail with the amended information, yet was remiss in not removing the error from their website. No harm, no foul.

Even full blood Native relatives and colleagues from various Nations and locations who attend the Lodges and ceremonies I conduct can attest to the veracity there is no charge for participation.

Those of you who attempt to find inconsistencies and dishonour in regard to my words and conduct will not be successful. Placing words in my mouth remain your words, not mine.

In yet another striking example of ignorance being passed off as inside knowledge, be advised the assertion that "my" Purification Lodge was taken down at the Lampasas, TX Sundance as a result of personal issues and politics with the people is patently false. To begin with, it was never "my" Lodge in the first place (in fact, no one ever owns a Lodge). In truth, the Lodge existed well before I commenced attending this Dance and was dismantled in recognition of the passing of one of the principal beloved elders who had been present since its inception.

Regarding the allegations of verbal and physical abuse, community members will corroborate these accusations are utter nonsense. There are instances when I am sought out for healing by people with extremely deep wounds and serious disturbances. Some of them take medication or self medicate The individual leveling such claims is emotionally unstable and psychologically imbalanced. Unaware of her own issues and incapable of taking responsibility for her actions (the quintessence of perpetuating victimization), it was she who was actually abusive to several members of the community and myself – a classic illustration of projection on her part.

In an obvious attempt to continue to engage and goad me, I will not squander precious time and energy addressing each point of contention and every aspersion the detractors on your website are compelled to cast upon my character and reputation. My attention is more wisely directed in service to the people.

The precepts, principles and protocols of the Canunpa Wakan guide adherents to refrain from interacting and associating with those whose intention and agenda is the fabrication and promotion of gossip and lies. Seeing as I am faithful to the directives of and from this Holy and Sacred Instrument, this serves as my final correspondence.

For those who intend to continue the rhetoric and condemnation, that is your choice and folly. Remember the adage that when one points a finger, there are three fingers directed back. This being my 21st consecutive year of Sundancing, as my relatives, I pray for your liberation from fear, judgment, ignorance and delusion. All of you have my forgiveness. Hece Tu Elo. Mitakuye Oyasin.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: used2bnaf on May 21, 2013, 02:47:46 am
Convienient you will not be responding again.

Quote
In an obvious attempt to continue to engage and goad me, I will not squander precious time and energy addressing each point of contention and every aspersion the detractors on your website are compelled to cast upon my character and reputation. My attention is more wisely directed in service to the people.

The one question you have continually failed to answer...The one you have avoided over and over is this:

How do you justify being Non-Native and claiming to be a practioner of Native American Ceremony?  You are not Lakota.

But please continue in your quackery, racism, and appropriation of cultures that aren't yours.  NAFPS isn't going anywhere.  I will continue to speak out against these practices, and share what I have seen.


used2bnaf
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Superdog on May 21, 2013, 01:26:10 pm
Though a few of the critical commentators on the site convey the impression of and even directly represent themselves as being educated, it is ironic that all of the myopic theories posited, the false narratives and erroneous conclusions drawn are not particularly intelligent and indicate a lack of the most fundamental of Indigenous attributes - namely, common sense.

As previously articulated, there never has been, nor will there even be, a charge for ceremony. I serve all beings equally, without prejudice. Consequently, this involves interacting and being of service to individuals, groups and organizations oft times wholly unfamiliar with Native practices and Sacred protocols. The Love Spring community is a case in point. The organizer contacted me to sponsor a Purification Lodge. After providing her with the specifics, she, without my knowledge or review, drafted a document announcing the ceremony with misinformation regarding a charge, sent a broadcast e-mail to their members and posted it on their website. Once it was brought to my attention, I immediately notified the organizer who rectified the situation by sending another e-mail with the amended information, yet was remiss in not removing the error from their website. No harm, no foul.

Even full blood Native relatives and colleagues from various Nations and locations who attend the Lodges and ceremonies I conduct can attest to the veracity there is no charge for participation.

Those of you who attempt to find inconsistencies and dishonour in regard to my words and conduct will not be successful. Placing words in my mouth remain your words, not mine.

In yet another striking example of ignorance being passed off as inside knowledge, be advised the assertion that "my" Purification Lodge was taken down at the Lampasas, TX Sundance as a result of personal issues and politics with the people is patently false. To begin with, it was never "my" Lodge in the first place (in fact, no one ever owns a Lodge). In truth, the Lodge existed well before I commenced attending this Dance and was dismantled in recognition of the passing of one of the principal beloved elders who had been present since its inception.

Regarding the allegations of verbal and physical abuse, community members will corroborate these accusations are utter nonsense. There are instances when I am sought out for healing by people with extremely deep wounds and serious disturbances. Some of them take medication or self medicate The individual leveling such claims is emotionally unstable and psychologically imbalanced. Unaware of her own issues and incapable of taking responsibility for her actions (the quintessence of perpetuating victimization), it was she who was actually abusive to several members of the community and myself – a classic illustration of projection on her part.

In an obvious attempt to continue to engage and goad me, I will not squander precious time and energy addressing each point of contention and every aspersion the detractors on your website are compelled to cast upon my character and reputation. My attention is more wisely directed in service to the people.

The precepts, principles and protocols of the Canunpa Wakan guide adherents to refrain from interacting and associating with those whose intention and agenda is the fabrication and promotion of gossip and lies. Seeing as I am faithful to the directives of and from this Holy and Sacred Instrument, this serves as my final correspondence.

For those who intend to continue the rhetoric and condemnation, that is your choice and folly. Remember the adage that when one points a finger, there are three fingers directed back. This being my 21st consecutive year of Sundancing, as my relatives, I pray for your liberation from fear, judgment, ignorance and delusion. All of you have my forgiveness. Hece Tu Elo. Mitakuye Oyasin.


While your attempt at an insult of people's intelligence was cute....let's just say it's duly noted.  My impression of you is the same impression I have of anthro professors from 80's and 90's.  Your diatribe confirms that. 

You conveniently left out the "contract" (that you also conveniently verified the authenticity of) that your followers have to sign to use your services.  There were tickets sold for a sweat lodge you conducted....that's the problem with what you do.  You can claim innocence...but when you administer to strangers, and their first impression of "Native practices" is you....then it's all wrong and goes awry.  You know that.  There's a lot of minimizing and justifying in your post....not a lot of real honesty.

There is a lot of precociousness and preciousness in the way you refer to what you do.  I pray for you....most of all, I pray for those that you fool with your system, which is not unlike techniques used in any cult following.  You still advertise sweats and ceremonies and at the end of every advertisement you lay the impression that a donation is expected.  You need to own that as well...donations are not "customary" in any "Sacred protocol" (which is precocious even of itself that you would attempt to speak that way and carry yourself in this manner that you somehow speak for all Natives).  You have a lot to learn.

The only narrative is yours. 

Superdog

Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: earthw7 on May 21, 2013, 11:51:19 pm
as a Lakota-Dakota woman i can say to you that i know you are misleading the people and doing
things that are not right
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: milehighsalute on May 22, 2013, 03:12:37 am
agree with epiphany...............every shyster claiming to be lakota claims to be a heyoka......that way if they are questioned they have a little more wiggle worm

i do know all siouxan people are very upset about the amount of people going around claiming to be heyokas
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Autumn on May 24, 2013, 01:13:47 am
Thank you for forgiving us, Mr. Scott.  I am sure that makes YOU feel a lot better.

Unfortunately, your arrogance remains--and that has to be a heavy weight.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Otter3 on May 25, 2013, 07:24:04 pm




Regarding the allegations of verbal and physical abuse, community members will corroborate these accusations are utter nonsense. There are instances when I am sought out for healing by people with extremely deep wounds and serious disturbances. Some of them take medication or self medicate The individual leveling such claims is emotionally unstable and psychologically imbalanced. Unaware of her own issues and incapable of taking responsibility for her actions (the quintessence of perpetuating victimization), it was she who was actually abusive to several members of the community and myself – a classic illustration of projection on her part.


This is an excellent example of what happens inside a cult.  When a person first joins a cult, they are welcomed. Everyone smiles, says "I love you." Hugs.  However, after paying the cult leader to be a student, the leader, Scott, develops a plan to keep the student (cash cow) indefinitely.  In order to do this, the cult leader has to instill in the student the idea that he or she is in such bad shape emotionally that only he can "save" them.  One way is to  tell a student that he/she is abusive to the leader and other members. First during the private sessions that students are required to attend.  Then, scolding the student in front of others for optimal humiliation.  Scolding for something the student didn't do or say, then saying,"Really?  You don't remember?  Your memory is really bad.  You said some terrible things.  You don't respect me or the group."  Or, "Didn't you get my emails?  What's wrong with you?"  When there were never emails.  Scott and his partner both do this, a combined attack.  Scott's vicious lies in the quote above show how he handles people who left the cult. His arrogant "damage control." Beware!


Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Epiphany on May 26, 2013, 01:02:31 am

Regarding the allegations of verbal and physical abuse, community members will corroborate these accusations are utter nonsense. There are instances when I am sought out for healing by people with extremely deep wounds and serious disturbances. Some of them take medication or self medicate The individual leveling such claims is emotionally unstable and psychologically imbalanced. Unaware of her own issues and incapable of taking responsibility for her actions (the quintessence of perpetuating victimization), it was she who was actually abusive to several members of the community and myself – a classic illustration of projection on her part.


This is an excellent example of what happens inside a cult.  When a person first joins a cult, they are welcomed. Everyone smiles, says "I love you." Hugs.  However, after paying the cult leader to be a student, the leader, Scott, develops a plan to keep the student (cash cow) indefinitely.  In order to do this, the cult leader has to instill in the student the idea that he or she is in such bad shape emotionally that only he can "save" them.  One way is to  tell a student that he/she is abusive to the leader and other members. First during the private sessions that students are required to attend.  Then, scolding the student in front of others for optimal humiliation.  Scolding for something the student didn't do or say, then saying,"Really?  You don't remember?  Your memory is really bad.  You said some terrible things.  You don't respect me or the group."  Or, "Didn't you get my emails?  What's wrong with you?"  When there were never emails.  Scott and his partner both do this, a combined attack.  Scott's vicious lies in the quote above show how he handles people who left the cult. His arrogant "damage control." Beware!

Exactly what I went through in a cult group.

Initially there is love bombing. Attention, affection, recruitment. Victims are told they are recognized spiritually as part of the family, this is their destiny, this is their reward, they've finally found what they've been searching for.

Next step is to ensnare them. Build an us vs them mentality. Leader = good, outside others = bad. Make it really important that the leader be kept happy and also make it impossible to ever really know how to consistently keep the leader happy.

As the cult leader sometimes treat your people well, then with no warning treat them badly.

Abuse, the abuse cycle involves a honeymoon period, a build up of tension, then an explosion then round and round the cycle goes again.

http://www.respect4women.org/what-is-abuse/the-cycle-of-abuse/ (http://www.respect4women.org/what-is-abuse/the-cycle-of-abuse/)

http://www.helpguide.org/mental/domestic_violence_abuse_types_signs_causes_effects.htm (http://www.helpguide.org/mental/domestic_violence_abuse_types_signs_causes_effects.htm)

A cult leader wants their followers confused, crazy, and totally under their power. This includes,as Otter details, the technique of gaslighting.

Quote
Gaslighting is a form of emotional abuse where the abuser manipulates situations repeatedly to trick the victim into distrusting his or her own memory and perceptions. Gaslighting is an insidious form of abuse. It makes victims question the very instincts that they have counted on their whole lives, making them unsure of anything. Gaslighting makes it very likely that victims will believe whatever their abusers tell them regardless as to their own experience of the situation. Gaslighting often precedes other types of emotional and physical abuse because the victim of gaslighting is more likely to remain in other abusive situations as wel

http://www.healthyplace.com/abuse/emotional-psychological-abuse/gaslighting-definition-techniques-and-being-gaslighted/ (http://www.healthyplace.com/abuse/emotional-psychological-abuse/gaslighting-definition-techniques-and-being-gaslighted/)

Victims of Phillip Scott - you can get help. In fact you can even call The National Domestic Violence Hotline. This is for men and women 1 800 799 SAFE (7233) or TTY 1 800 787 3224.

http://www.thehotline.org/is-this-abuse/am-i-being-abused-2/ (http://www.thehotline.org/is-this-abuse/am-i-being-abused-2/)

And come to think of it - why the hell is Scott doing this:

Quote
There are instances when I am sought out for healing by people with extremely deep wounds and serious disturbances. Some of them take medication or self medicate

There is absolutely no way that Scott should ever ever ever be working with people who have serious challenges. He should be immediately telling them that he does not have the proper training and that they need to find professional help elsewhere.

So he wants us to believe that seriously disturbed people come to him and are somehow oh so innocently taken lovingly into his group until he discovers (oh poor Phillip!) that they are actually really messed up.

If that were true, he needs to get a clue and stop it. All of it. Stop presenting himself as a healer.

Phillip Scott and his partner are dangerous, unethical people.



Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: educatedindian on May 26, 2013, 08:11:16 pm
Mr. Scott, it is quite telling that you refuse to answer many questions about yourself, and that you refuse to discuss, prefering instead to make hit and run attacks with ad hominem smears upon those who question you. That only shows your lack of character and distinctly UNspiritual nature.

It's also telling that virtually none of your followers are willing to discuss either, and seem to only make hit and run testimonials that look coached.

You claim you won't come back, but I doubt it for three reasons:

Your ego won't let you stay away. You love seeing your name and being discussed and being the center of attention. That's why you came back after this thread had not been discussed in months.

You're so used to having control and having people never doubt you that it kills you so many people now see what you truly are. Without the phony spirchul leader pose, you're a clueless white guy, lost and not knowing what to do.

And the discussion of you in here has likely had quite an effect. I'd bet people are now asking questions more and more about your abusive behavior, and that's why you felt you had to respond. Your profit margin is likely feeling the effects of this research thread too.

So go ahead, prove me wrong. I'll bet your ego and bottom line won't let you let this go.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Otter3 on May 27, 2013, 06:00:36 pm
Thank you Epiphany and Educated Indian
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: used2bnaf on June 04, 2013, 08:48:15 pm
The main reason you won't be hearing from Phillip is because he will be at the Lone Star Sun Dance in Texas.  He is a little busy right now.  I'm sure he will stay current with what is said here about him.  I have had enough experience with him to figure that out.  I suspect we will hear some defense of him after LSSD.



Used2bnaf
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Twinkie_Slayer on June 05, 2013, 05:15:46 pm
I hope he doesn't trip over a crystal skull while he's there and break a chakra  :o
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Autumn on June 05, 2013, 08:08:26 pm
I hope he doesn't trip over a crystal skull while he's there and break a chakra  :o

Or trip over a chakra and break a crystal skull!  :) :) :)
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: used2bnaf on June 05, 2013, 09:20:16 pm
Oh....there are not any crystal skulls there.  Just some very spiritually hungry and emotionally unequipped non-natives trying to be traditional.  I don't say that with any meanness.  they really do think they are doing the right thing and helping people.  I think that most of them would stop if they saw how racist and damaging it actually is to the Lakota people.




used2bNAF
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: earthw7 on June 06, 2013, 02:33:18 am
No they would not those people have the ideal that they have the right to our ways, even when we see them do wrong things and tell
them they dont listen
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Twinkie_Slayer on June 06, 2013, 01:53:56 pm
 That's been my observation with most of these types. Confrant them and try to explain what they are doing is disrespectful and damaging, and watch the justifications fly.

No they would not those people have the ideal that they have the right to our ways, even when we see them do wrong things and tell
them they dont listen
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Twinkie_Slayer on June 06, 2013, 01:55:53 pm
IIRC, that Mary Grimes character has crystal skulls as part of her gig.

Oh....there are not any crystal skulls there.  Just some very spiritually hungry and emotionally unequipped non-natives trying to be traditional.  I don't say that with any meanness.  they really do think they are doing the right thing and helping people.  I think that most of them would stop if they saw how racist and damaging it actually is to the Lakota people.




used2bNAF
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Epiphany on June 06, 2013, 02:19:42 pm
Oh....there are not any crystal skulls there.  Just some very spiritually hungry and emotionally unequipped non-natives trying to be traditional.  I don't say that with any meanness.  they really do think they are doing the right thing and helping people.  I think that most of them would stop if they saw how racist and damaging it actually is to the Lakota people.
used2bNAF

Most people don't want to know, and when they do know, don't stop. Once people leave Scott, they may move on to yet another fraud group, they may not understand that both Scott and Nuage philosophy are the problems.

So they have to both leave Scott and related Nuage ripoffs.

I as a person with white privilege could view them as people who mean well, who want to do the right thing. Because what they are doing doesn't impact me, a white person, I and my family don't have to live every day with the impact of their choices, I'm not a target of prejudice in this way.

So I have the luxury of assuming that they mean well. They aren't beating their wives and children, they seem earnest in their spiritual pursuit, surely they would stop if only they knew.

But as the passage of time shows, most people don't listen and they don't stop.

Those of us with white privilege can be victimized by con artists and we can go very astray in our pursuit of spiritual fulfillment. Sooner than later we have to get a grip. We have to get free of criminals and we have to stop grasping for what is not ours to own.

I believe we also have to tell the truth to each other.  We need to hold each other to higher standards.

Those in Scott's group need to get free of him. They also need to do the hard, uncomfortable work of seeing their own privilege.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: used2bnaf on June 06, 2013, 02:39:33 pm
IIRC, that Mary Grimes character has crystal skulls as part of her gig.

Oh....there are not any crystal skulls there.  Just some very spiritually hungry and emotionally unequipped non-natives trying to be traditional.  I don't say that with any meanness.  they really do think they are doing the right thing and helping people.  I think that most of them would stop if they saw how racist and damaging it actually is to the Lakota people.




used2bNAF

They were a part of her "road show" I think, but not at dance.  I went to this particular dance for many years.  There were never any crystal skulls around.  Thunder usually just kinda blows in and leaves kinda like a rock star.  She doesn't spend any real amount of time there.  It is a show.

On another note....I am grateful I found this site.  I am also grateful that I was able to hear the truth from the people on these boards.


Used2bNaf
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Cetan on June 06, 2013, 04:19:41 pm
Unfortunately Leonard Crow Dog had given his approval for the Lone Star Sundance and they use that as a justification that it is alright
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Annderling on August 16, 2013, 02:32:31 pm
I'd like to thank you all for this forum.  I knew Phillip Scott. And I am glad to see he has been called out. I feel vindicated just from reading this forum.  I hope his followers will be able to see the truth, no matter how painful it is for them.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: used2bnaf on August 17, 2013, 08:18:46 pm
I'd like to thank you all for this forum.  I knew Phillip Scott. And I am glad to see he has been called out. I feel vindicated just from reading this forum.  I hope his followers will be able to see the truth, no matter how painful it is for them.

Feel free to add your experience to this thread.  It will be helpful to those who start to question.


used2b..
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Otter3 on August 17, 2013, 10:34:29 pm
I'd like to thank you all for this forum.  I knew Phillip Scott. And I am glad to see he has been called out. I feel vindicated just from reading this forum.  I hope his followers will be able to see the truth, no matter how painful it is for them.

Welcome, Annderling. Thank you for your words.  I too am a former follower.  I agree with used2bnaf,  and hope you will add to this thread.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Creekside on September 17, 2014, 03:42:31 am
Apparently Scott is still active. I received this in an email advertisement for this store, which is local to me: http://www.moonfyre.net/Calendar%20click%20throughs/Chief%20Black%20Horse%20-%20final%20upgrade%20return%20healin%20days%20-%20sept%2015%202014.pdf

Chief Black Horse Returns To Moonfyre Metaphysical
Welcome to the world of healing and spirituality with Chief Black Horse.
Chief Black Horse (Phillip Scott) is of Oklahoma Tsalagi (Cherokee) Ancestry and has walked the Native Path for over thirty
years, learning from traditional Medicine/Holy people, tribal Spiritual leaders, shamans and elders from various cultures.
Sundancing for the past twenty-one consecutive years, he is a ceremonial Chief in the Lakota tradition, sanctioned to share Indigenous wisdom and traditional healing practices with the contemporary world.

On Monday, September 15, 2014, Chief Black Horse will be coming to Moonfyre Metaphysical to bring us healing sessions and readings that follow the ways and procedures of the Native American Tradition. This work is powerful and Chief Black Horse
knows how to get it done. Come discover for yourself the healing ways of Chief Black Horse. Sessions are by appointment only. Contact us for pricing. That evening, Chief Black Horse will be presenting a special ceremony. Again, following
the Native American tradition, this ceremony will help us honor the Autumn Equinox, connect with the season, and find the healing opportunities within. Treat yourself to the deep wisdom and healing available in this special event. This evening's cost
is listed below. This is a rare opportunity as Chief Black Horse travels the world teaching, sharing, and conducting healing sessions. Filled with a deep passion to help others, Chief Black Horse will bring us into his teachings and way of life so that we may understand our own lives much better. Let’s support his endeavors to share his sacred and valuable teachings not only to us, but to others everywhere.

Where:
Moonfyre Metaphysical
401 E Campbell Ave,
Campbell, Ca
95008
Cost for Evening Event:
We ask for a respectful donation of $35
Call Moonfyre Metaphysical At 408-370-0333
To Sign Up Now For This Amazing Event!
Space is limited so don't delay! Register Now
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: earthw7 on September 17, 2014, 01:49:58 pm
It never stops with these people :o
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: White Rainbow Eagle on March 31, 2015, 07:22:03 pm
Hello everyone I am new, Iam from Puerto Rico , and I was investigating this supposed
 Chief Black Horse due his been coming to my Island and his claims of being a Chief seemed fake to me
I went to his ceremonies and he conducted  them with much knowledge and at first I thought was real
Till I started to see a few red flags and realized something was off.

You see , Iam a Taino native that found out I had Cherokee and Powhatan blood,
Due I found such, I wanted to know about my ancestry, I met this amazing teacher in West point Virginia, at The Mattaponi rez, He became my Spiritual father, hes Name was John Sun Eagle, he had the charity. Work of Spirit rising helping the children of Pine ridge area...he adopted me as his daughter and guided me through my new life inside the red road...I was under his wings for over 12 years before he passed away.
Learning the Cherokee and Chippewa ways
Through him I met another great teacher, from the Powhatan nation, Robert Green Two Eagles.
From the Stafford, Aquia Landing area, in Virginia.
Anyways
This Phillip Scott has been coming to my Island to teach the supposed Lakota ways,
He claimed Crow Dog made him chief, yet is my understanding that to become Chief you have to be under y he trained guide of a holy man for over a decade (dont know for sure) and you must have blood under that nation to be such.
So how can he be a Lakota chief if hes claiming to be Cherokee..?

I was so proud to know I had Cherokee and Powhatan blood , I wanted to know everything about my people, ceremonies, traditions....

He seems to renounce his Cherokee inheritance to be Lakota, How can that be ?

That was the first Red Flag, the second was the charging for he sweat lodge ceremonies,
Ceremonies are sacred, not to make profits, Cherokee does not do sweat lodges,
But I know charging is not sacred
I told him , he seem to change it to donations....he knew I knew about Indigenous traditions and he tried to make friends with me to calm me down cause I told him I would investigate him, I  .  Dont want my people to be taken as fools....we been having a problem in our Island with false Shamans charging for Ceremonies over 500.00 per person some of them

Iam a spiritual leader of my community and I dont want this to keep happening in my Island

How can I stop people like Phillip Scott to keep working in my Island

I tried to contact Crow Dog but they haven't answered me back,
And this Tom Wolfe hes charging 600.00 for Ceremonies as well

Where can. We go to stop this people.?
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: educatedindian on April 03, 2015, 06:45:06 pm
I hope you or anyone else taken in by him who went to one of his fraudulent ceremonies takes him to civil court. Sue him. He committed fraud. He defrauded you of your money by selling you a ceremony under false pretenses.

You don't need a lawyer. Filing in Small Claims Court can be done by anyone. Demand the return of the fees you paid and an amount for punitive damages and emotional distress.

Scott may choose not to respond. Then you have a default judgment against him for fraud which can be used to warn off others. Or if he does respond, the cost of defending himself may cost more than he made from the fake ceremony and may discourage him in the future.

Court also is a chance to enter sworn testimony showing how he is a fraud. I'd be glad to testify for you or anyone else pursuing such a case.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: White Rainbow Eagle on April 30, 2015, 07:06:49 am
Thank you for all the information given, in private as in public.
I have taken your advice .

Thank you.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: White Rainbow Eagle on April 30, 2015, 11:08:02 pm
Due that I have called him a Fraud in public, my bravery
Paid off, for now new.people has come forward to help to get him off the Island.

At first hes group attacked me, now some people that had gone through the same,
Has come forward and want to be part of getting him off the Island due they too were bullied by him,
Some are man.
This has set a sequence of events, Iam very proud my people want to stand up to him

Thank you so much EducatedNative for your courage and wisdom shared
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: White Rainbow Eagle on May 01, 2015, 04:36:45 am
Happy to informed that my people in Puerto Rico will be closing the doors to Phillip Scott, for repeating the same abuse Bullying and self serving ceremonies he does
He is one.lie after another after another, this is the.beginning of the end in our Island for Phillip...as tonight groups are uniting, and closing doors he makes this ceremonies in the Island....people are catching up the truth of who he is...they don't want him here anymore
 But is hes own doing, hes abuse is finally catching up with him, this is a very mentally Ill person, with real mental issues
Very frightening to see.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: White Rainbow Eagle on May 08, 2015, 08:11:25 pm

Thank you for your encouragement, hasn't been an easy task,
We know Phillip Scott started in a good way in the Red road and later became corrupted
We wish he heals from his personal and emotional traumas that has caused for him
To loose his ways . After hes a child of the creator too.
Is saddens me when people loose their way, for he had much potential to become a great
Leader of his people.
Yet, we must do what it takes to protect the sacred teachings of my people,
And that is what is at hand, the protection of our culture and our ceremonies,
He has chosen his path and we have chosen ours.
We cant have people abuse us anymore.

Thank you for taking the time to write me and for the encouragement
 , and many blessings to you and yours,

Quamanese
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: White Rainbow Eagle on May 08, 2015, 08:16:49 pm
Phillip Scott, has taken out his name of  "Chief" from his websites
 ,hes Cherokee Ancestry , as well as  the Lakota teachings, from his seminars.

Not sure if this was due to the investigation that is taking place, or if is another trick of his sleeve
Yet we are still working in the legalities so he won't  return to the Island to teach or conduct his business here.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Epiphany on May 10, 2015, 03:45:53 pm
White Rainbow Eagle, thank you for all your inspiring work.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Epiphany on May 10, 2015, 04:49:51 pm
As stated earlier in this thread, Scott has claimed Cherokee heritage through his father. He has since said that he is not enrolled.

Focusing on his father's side, I don't see any sign of NDN heritage at all.

I began with Al's find on Phillip Scott's paternal grandfather Allan Scott http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1282.msg33401#msg33401 (http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1282.msg33401#msg33401) I've been able to trace the family back several generations.

Phillip M Scott, born 1963 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VGF2-HKM (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VGF2-HKM)

Phillip Scott's father Donald Evans Scott http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/pilotonline/obituary.aspx?pid=143967783 (http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/pilotonline/obituary.aspx?pid=143967783) Extensive obit, no mention of any NDN heritage.

Donald's parents are found in this obit. Donald's sister, Pippa, Phillip's aunt, is an actress with bio details online also, which helps with confirming family details.

Phillip's paternal grandparents are Laurence Allan Scott Jr. and Laura Straub. Playright and actress, I've uploaded here a wedding announcement that includes a photo of Laura.

Both Allan and Laura were born in New Jersey. They are both listed as white in the 1940 federal census, in Los Angeles. In this census they have two children, along with a nurse, and also a maid. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K9C2-SLC (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K9C2-SLC) Laura Straub's father is C.L. Straub.

Laurence Allan Scott's parents are Laurence (spelling varies) Allan Scott Sr.  and Mary Cecilia Redpath. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MKY4-R16 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MKY4-R16) Both listed white in 1910 census. Laurence Sr. is white on military 1917 registration https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-25977-19042-15?cc=1968530 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-25977-19042-15?cc=1968530 (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-25977-19042-15?cc=1968530 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-25977-19042-15?cc=1968530) Laurence Allan Scott Sr.'s parents are both from Scotland. Mary Cecilia Redpath's father is from Scotland, mother from England.

---------

Phillip Scott says that he and his father were members of "Indian Guides" in NY. Phillip had a bad sledding accident and claims visions from that accident. http://www.bevitality.com/blog/indigineous-medicine/big-medicine-dreams (http://www.bevitality.com/blog/indigineous-medicine/big-medicine-dreams) The YMCA Indian Guides are now usually called Adventure Guides http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Y-programs-shed-Indian-trappings-now-deemed-racist-1113323.php (http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Y-programs-shed-Indian-trappings-now-deemed-racist-1113323.php). And of course, membership in YMCA Indian Guides did not make Phillip NDN.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: White Rainbow Eagle on May 28, 2015, 08:22:22 pm
This is incredible work, thank you for all the information,

we were able to show some of the info we collected, to some of the people that lended him the spaces he teaches here in the Island and they close their door to him,

To my surprise,  the people were fed up with him as well ,
and were looking for one more thing to throw him out from their spaces

It seems hes was bullying them as well, and wanted to impose himself in the property he was using there
and the owners were looking for a reason to get him out as well, they were tired of his bullying

The owners were elderly people and they fear he would become agresive, so they were afraid of him
, but when we provided the information, and had our commitment to protect them, they right away decided to end all ties with him

We are getting a court petition, so he dont teach anything in the Island

We have many signatures and we keep collecting people's stories and information

He never has paid taxes for any workshops, he has given in his building in California or here in PR
He has no teachers licences here on in California

Or any permits to teach anything-so legally he has no back up-for he lack permission here in the Island as in USA

We are still finding alot of stuff to help our case, he is indeed a lier and an imposter

Thank you for this wonderful information, I will keep to use in our request in the court.

Thank you so much

Quamanese
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: White Rainbow Eagle on May 28, 2015, 10:09:05 pm
A non-refundable deposit of $50 is required to reserve placement in the intensives.
A percentage of all proceeds benefits Native causes.
ALL CEREMONIES AND DRUM CIRCLES ARE BY DONATION. EVERYONE WELCOME.

Hes saying he does not charge for ceremonies but here hes asking for a deposit none refundable--

This guy is either insane or stupid-
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Superdog on May 29, 2015, 01:24:14 pm
A non-refundable deposit of $50 is required to reserve placement in the intensives.
A percentage of all proceeds benefits Native causes.
ALL CEREMONIES AND DRUM CIRCLES ARE BY DONATION. EVERYONE WELCOME.

Hes saying he does not charge for ceremonies but here hes asking for a deposit none refundable--

This guy is either insane or stupid-

Yeah he's actually come here himself proclaiming there is NEVER a charge for ceremony.  When confronted with links that show charges or denotes an expectation of a donation for his workshops/ceremonies....either minimizing or silence. 

He DOES charge for the services he offers (under the guise that they are "ceremonies" and that he's a "chief") and he's been called out on it.  The only time he shows up here however is to do a drive by diatribe attempting to defend himself, but in the end making himself look worse.  Coincidentally, those appearances coincide with hits to his wallet by the information disseminated here.

Superdog
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: White Rainbow Eagle on June 20, 2015, 08:58:46 pm
Any info you guys can provide about Phillip Scott will be highly appreciated--
We were able to close the doors to a few of the places he uses here in Puerto Rico- yet we understand that we need to take him to court to be able to stop him completely--
--he has made friends with several financially wealthy woman- that we suspect a few of them are his lovers
Or has been or are-potential partners---one we know for sure is a sexual mistress to him--to the shame that he - even after having her as a lover---he has told the woman she owes him $18,000- dollars for HIS services---when in reality - hes been sleeping with her and staying in her place when he stays in Puerto Rico--

Is true the woman is being stupid and naive beyond words---but no less--he is taking advantage of her as well---NO REAL SHAMAN OR REAL Medicine Man --would do such a horrible thing to a sister--

He is indeed very Evil---and we want him out of the Island-

Any other info would be appreciated--yet we have enough info to put him in jail at this time for Fraud-
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: White Rainbow Eagle on June 20, 2015, 09:03:16 pm
I read Tarot Cards in my Island and work as a Clairvoyant--and he sended someone to stalk me--
--and he himself has stalked me--he found out where I Lived and once followed. Me through the city--

He is not a very smart man--thats for sure--he lies and gets cought all the time--but no doubt hes the Evil kind-
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: White Rainbow Eagle on August 24, 2015, 07:39:51 am
This guy is truly insane--he still trying to find a way in our Island--

He stop announcing his schedules to the Island--yet we have people that inform us--

He found a new place of business and is conducting his job as usual--

He was thrown out of the other places but he found new ones--

We are getting Signatures and people who will testify against him--

But to be honest and with all respect--you have to be insane to come back where you pissed off so many people

Hes Truly insane-

We have over 500. People giving testimony to Crow Dog and his son--

But he keep working. Business as usual---obviously not respecting anyone--
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Epiphany on August 30, 2015, 05:20:30 pm
White Rainbow Eagle, I'm sorry you all are going through this, your work to educate people about him is inspiring.

I'll upload some things found on his Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ancestral-Voice-Institute-for-Indigenous-Lifeways/324751124235407 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ancestral-Voice-Institute-for-Indigenous-Lifeways/324751124235407)


Quote
Ancestral Voice - Institute for Indigenous Lifeways added 2 new photos.
May 13 ·
Early March, I returned to the Island of Boriken to conduct Ceremonies, teach intensives (the Shaman's Journey and Sound Healing) and perform healings. We have a beautiful, amazing and heartfelt Tiospaye there - a strong and faithful satellite of Ancestral Voice which continues to grow and build momentum.


Quote
Ancestral Voice - Institute for Indigenous Lifeways
May 13 ·
The poster was created by the Boriken Tiospaye to announce my visit to the Island. Words are unable to convey my gratitude for its brilliance, ingenuity and artistry.

(http://i61.tinypic.com/raneqr.jpg)
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: White Rainbow Eagle on September 15, 2015, 11:20:08 pm
Yes---as always he finds woman to help him--we know that he targets lonely -woman-as well as very young and impressionable---we served the information to them--we have enough signatures--
Is now making a court date--

He is indeed aloof about what is happening--we talked with Crow Dog and he isn't happy either

We have alot of woman that say the same story---he chases them down--so they wont leave hes Cult--

Hes Like a serial stalker---he wont light up--

The court is not so nice about this things---specially about harassing woman-
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: oak on May 16, 2016, 06:17:41 am
I saw this event announcement on Facebook and was wondering who this person is. Using Google I found this thread. Obviously Phillip Scott is or was in Austria.

https://www.facebook.com/events/818178448287654/ (https://www.facebook.com/events/818178448287654/)
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: ellyn68 on August 19, 2017, 03:03:15 pm
I notice this thread is pretty old but PS is still active according to his website and a quick google search shows he's expanded to an international audience of gullible followers. I do not know why this person popped into my head a few days ago but he did and that's how I found this site. I attended a "vision quest" as a supporter for a friend several years ago in CA and was convinced from the get go that he was a fraud...professes he doesn't charge a fee but appreciates donations, heavy monetary donations. Counted his money in front of everyone in circle, insisted on being called "chief" (I refused), made sexual comments to women, the whole vibe he gave was of an extremely huge ego, power trip, not in the least bit approachable, warm or even remotely friendly. Ordered people around, kept to himself most of the time without letting his guard down. I wish I never went but I did and now I know better to trust my instincts and common sense. I've had a few experiences with frauds like him and they are dangerous in many ways. If anyone is still pursuing getting him shut down, I'd be happy to share via pm what my experience was like.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Piff on August 19, 2017, 08:15:17 pm
I notice this thread is pretty old but PS is still active according to his website and a quick google search shows he's expanded to an international audience of gullible followers. I do not know why this person popped into my head a few days ago but he did and that's how I found this site. I attended a "vision quest" as a supporter for a friend several years ago in CA and was convinced from the get go that he was a fraud...professes he doesn't charge a fee but appreciates donations, heavy monetary donations. Counted his money in front of everyone in circle, insisted on being called "chief" (I refused), made sexual comments to women, the whole vibe he gave was of an extremely huge ego, power trip, not in the least bit approachable, warm or even remotely friendly. Ordered people around, kept to himself most of the time without letting his guard down. I wish I never went but I did and now I know better to trust my instincts and common sense. I've had a few experiences with frauds like him and they are dangerous in many ways. If anyone is still pursuing getting him shut down, I'd be happy to share via pm what my experience was like.

Thank you for telling us about your experience. Witness accounts can make a big difference.

In your experience, does he have a core group of followers, an inner circle?
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: ellyn68 on August 20, 2017, 04:16:48 am
I don't really know. It was a long time ago, around 2005-2009..somewhere in that timeframe that I was there. I don't recall that any of the participants had known him prior. There was a house, near the camp, I think he used their land, we parked our cars there. Near Chico. A couple of other odd things...he said he was a ballet dancer in his past! I gave him an attitude the whole time because right away I didn't trust him. I asked him what he did before and he said he was professionally trained as a ballet dancer. And I asked him who taught him what he knows and he gave the whole schpiel you already heard. And he said he was married to a Lakota woman and she had passed away. This was in private convos with him not in a group setting. He was very evasive. He told a woman, "wow cleavage" as he walked by staring at her chest. And stared at my butt while I was crawling into the sweat lodge. Creep. He was pretty startled when I spoke a bit of my own language, Mohawk, in a prayer circle. As if he never gets any actual Native people and then I refused to call him chief. He corrected people and I just kept saying Phillip. It really disgusted me at the end when he counted a wad of cash as we were all sitting around a circle after closing. I didn't give him money. I gave him beans. Literally. A small basket with corn, bean, and squash seeds.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: Annderling on September 02, 2017, 06:55:42 am
Quote
And he said he was married to a Lakota woman and she had passed away.

I participated in his sweat lodge awhile back and no, he wasn't married to a Lakota woman he was married to a Filipina. The woman died in a car accident over 10 years ago and he's been using that to get sympathy. He's very manipulative, twists words around to get his way. I really don't like the fact that people fall for his performance and he gets away with it.

It's been a long long time since I last participated in any of his "ceremonies". But at that time, he did have a core group of people that did his bidding, his students. People pay him money to learn Native American traditions, traditions he learned from Charles Chipps, a known sex offender who died in prison.
Title: Re: Ancestral Voices/ Phillip Scott
Post by: ellyn68 on September 04, 2017, 02:12:35 pm
That's interesting Annderling....I"m sure he told me she was Lakota, so who knows since he seems to be lying about so many things. I don't remember exactly when I was there...sometime around 2005 or within a few years of that date. At that time, he said he was married to a Lakota woman who yes, he said died in a car accident. So that was well  over 10 yrs ago. I don't remember when he said she passed, but it wasn't recent, at that time.