Andrea Smith

[Defend the Sacred]

This settles it for me. I apologize if I gave the impression I was supporting Smith. I was given incorrect information by mutual friends, and was waiting to see if Smith's alleged relatives stepped up and claimed her. That hasn't happened.  No Cherokee have stepped up to claim her, and she has handled this completely opposite of what a member of the community would have done.

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2015/07/17/cherokee-women-scholars-and-activists-statement-andrea-smith

[Defend the Sacred]

I've merged in some of the posts from the other thread, in an effort to keep discussion mostly in one place. Mostly. http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=4658.

[Defend the Sacred]

then its simple prove it, it is just like us on the reservation everyone ask who is your parent
are they enrolled, who are your grandparent, what is the name of the family, please don't say
my great great great great grandma was Indian that only mean you are not

This can't be emphasized enough. So simple. So vital. Without relatives, without community, "self-identification" means nothing.

[AClockworkWhite]

Exactly, Yells. And personally I didn't see you defending her but simply presenting other points of view for others to read and discuss. Something everyone including myself should do more of and more often.

[AClockworkWhite]

And I don't mean that as a criticism of anyone here on this thread, just really in general. In my personal life, that has come up a few times recently and my habit of taking all info in before commenting as to my opinion has been lacking, as well as having seen this on several threads on Facebook I've participated on.  This community prides itself on the thoroughness of the research presented and rightfully so.

[Epiphany]

http://americanindiansinchildrensliterature.blogspot.com/2015/07/dear-writers-who-think-youre-cherokee.html

David knows what it is to be Cherokee, what life is like for someone who is a citizen of the Cherokee Nation.

What he shared brings me back to you, Writer Who Thinks You Are Cherokee. Are you an Andrea Smith? Did someone in your family tell you that you're Cherokee? Did you use that story to identify yourself as Cherokee? Does that identity inspire you to create stories to "honor" Cherokees? Or some other Native Nation?

If the answer to those questions is yes, hit the pause button. If you're not living life as a Cherokee, you're likely to add to the pile of misrepresentations Cherokee people contend with, day in, and day out. Do you really want to do that?

But returning to Andrea Smith, and speaking now, to my friends and colleagues in activist circles: please reconsider inviting Andrea Smith to deliver a keynote lecture at your conference or workshop. My request may sound mean-spirited or unfair to her, but consider the Cherokee Nation itself. Consider the Cherokee children David speaks of. Do you want to, as Smith is doing, thumb your nose at their sovereignty? Their rights to say who their citizens are? Do you really want to do that?

The entire post by Debbie Reese is well worth reading.

[AClockworkWhite]

Wow, I've heard of her. That is an excellent perspective. Even the wording, like "eroding sovereignty" rings true. That's exactly what I tell claimers (that special level of pretendian above hobbysist/wannabe yet below the Anglos like James Ray who sell ceremony or get on TV). That they're dismissing the actual tribal people's right to say who is and isn't a member of their tribe. THEY get to claim these people, not the other way around. One person is not a community... And it basically boils down to the racism inherent in the act of claiming false Native/FN identity itself. That they don't need Federal standards and legalities like we actual Natives have to suffer. And that, my friends, boils down to: White Privilege.

[WINative]

I actually met Andrea Smith through her sister Justine Smith. I embarrassed to say I was also fooled by the sisters. Justine Smith entered the Milwaukee Indian community via United Indians of Milwaukee and came with a strong background in Native activism.
Justine had been a member of the Chicago American Indian center and had a child with a member of that community, and also claimed to be involved with AIM and she said she was present at the Oka conflict. She also told us all she was Cherokee, so I thought I had finally met my first Real Cherokee and years later I find out I was wrong. She worked at an American Indian high school, and ended up marrying and having a child with one of the students there. She later hung out at the UWM American Indian Student Services office and graduated from there.
Then I lost track of her. Needless to say i abhor her actions and deceit at representing herself as a Native person in our communities.
She is now a pastor at the Norman First American United Methodist Church in Norman, Oklahoma and is still wearing Cherokee regalia.
https://www.facebook.com/FirstAmericanUnitedMethodistChurch/

[Diana]

Hmmm...It looks like Norman First United Methodist has another fraud in it's midst, even a bigger fake than Justine Smith; Cedric Sunray.

https://m.facebook.com/FirstAmericanUnitedMethodistChurch/photos/a.286369781374527.79881.120784221266418/1070495926295238/?type=3&source=48

[WINative]

Interesting Information Diana I read your post on Cedric Sunray. I am actually not surprised though since I have observed that here in SE Wisconsin with Dennis Hawk and Tim McIntosh, both hanging out and doing programs and ceremonies together-Frauds tend to hang together and find each other-especially the wannabe Cherokee's I see...

[Diana]

@Winative, you're absolutely right. Frauds never really engage with real Ndns, because they will eventually be found out. I believe that is a tell-tale sign of a fraud.

Interesting Information Diana I read your post on Cedric Sunray. I am actually not surprised though since I have observed that here in SE Wisconsin with Dennis Hawk and Tim McIntosh, both hanging out and doing programs and ceremonies together-Frauds tend to hang together and find each other-especially the wannabe Cherokee's I see...

[milehighsalute]

if these non-ndns have such good intentions and want to help........why cant they do it as a non-ndn?? its not like we wouldnt accept them if they just are being THEMSELVES

[WINative]

I was looking at the subject again and looks like Justine Smith has been Pastor of the Norman First American United Methodist Church in Oklahoma since July 2013 until Present they still post photos of her in her Cherokee Regalia, Here's a site that lists her credentials.

https://www.ats.edu/justine-smith

[Sparks]

I actually met Andrea Smith through her sister Justine Smith. I embarrassed to say I was also fooled by the sisters. Justine Smith entered the Milwaukee Indian community via United Indians of Milwaukee and came with a strong background in Native activism.
Justine had been a member of the Chicago American Indian center and had a child with a member of that community, and also claimed to be involved with AIM and she said she was present at the Oka conflict. She also told us all she was Cherokee, so I thought I had finally met my first Real Cherokee and years later I find out I was wrong.

This article from the summer of 2015 is about both the Smith sisters (check links):

http://www.thedailybeast.com/tribes-blast-wannabe-native-american-professor

This Wikipedia article describes the Andrea Smith controversy, and also mentions Justine Smith:

Smith's sister, Justine, has also claimed Cherokee ancestry and is likewise accused of ethnic fraud. She allegedly falsified a tribal card of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma. Justine, who has the same parents as Andrea, also claims Ojibway heritage.[22][36] She was announced as Native American when hired by the Saint Paul School of Theology in Oklahoma, but left after three months after being confronted about her identity when the Cherokee Nation disputed her claim.[35]

[Piff]

Archive of the Andrea Smith is not Cherokee blog: https://web.archive.org/web/20160205203505/http://andreasmithisnotcherokee.tumblr.com/