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Odds and Ends => Etcetera => Topic started by: earthw7 on August 17, 2007, 03:33:48 pm

Title: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: earthw7 on August 17, 2007, 03:33:48 pm
I don't know if this is the area to be put this post but here goes.

The adoption ceremonies of my people the Lakota/Dakota/Nakota are
called Hunka ceremonies.
I would like to explain a little about them.
What they are and what they are NOT.

The adoption ceremonies are a ceremonies to adopt an individual into a family.
When you lose a family member you have the right to adopt a member.
When you are close to a person for a long time you have the right to adopt
them as a member of your family.
This relationship is sarced.

The right as a Hunka relatived are to care for your new family as they care for you.


Now for what they are NOT.
There has never been a person who has been adopted into the Lakota or Dakota or Nakota
Nation. This has not happen in the past nor today.

The Lakota/Dakota/Nakota Nations are in North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Nebraska,
Minnesota, three Canadain States. in order for a person to be adopted into the nation
it would have to be OKed by all of the nations and bands. I can tell it has never happened.

What right the adoptees Do Not have:
They have No Rights to ceremonies,
They have NO Rights to our stories
They have NO Rights to medicine,
They have No Rights to inherit medicine men names,
They have No Right to names,
They have NO Right to speak for our nations
They have No Right to speak for our governments,
They Have No Rights to speak for the adopted families,

If a person claims to be adopted by the Lakota or Dakota or Nakota
If a person claim to be taught medicine by a Lakota or Dakota or Nakota

Beware
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: earthw7 on August 17, 2007, 06:47:26 pm
Thank you for putting this in the right place
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: debbieredbear on August 17, 2007, 11:25:05 pm
Thanks for posting it. Many people have no clue about this and belkieve everything they are told.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: ironbuffalo on August 17, 2007, 11:34:42 pm

 I don't know how many times I've heard the line that someone is "Lakota" or Cherokee/Cheyenne/Comanche/Apache ect. by adoption.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Laurel on August 18, 2007, 11:10:06 am
When people lay that crap on me I say, "I'm adopted too.  Have you done a birth parent search?  Are you from an open records or closed records state?"  Shuts'em right up. 

This foolishness insults adoptees as well as Natives. 

Laurel
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: earthw7 on August 23, 2007, 07:56:43 pm
The adoptees are usually not infants that were adopted but
adults who spent a little time with an elder and now stole
his cultural ways.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Cetan on August 23, 2007, 08:08:32 pm
The making of relatives is one of the seven sacred rites. The hunka ceremony does usually involve giving a new name to the one who is adopted and once adopted you are the same a a blood relative and have all the same obligations.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: debbieredbear on August 23, 2007, 11:22:44 pm
and have all the same obligations. (http://and have all the same obligations.)

This is the kicker. Most nuagey types miss that part. They just want to strut around saying how they were adopted. At least in my experience.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: earthw7 on August 24, 2007, 02:15:02 am
The making of relatives is one of the seven sacred rites. The hunka ceremony does usually involve giving a new name to the one who is adopted and once adopted you are the same a a blood relative and have all the same obligations.

Very true the obligation to care for your family
be there if they need you
help out in times of need
pray for each other
the love for each other as family member.

That does not give you the right to speak for the nation or our spirituality.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Laurel on August 24, 2007, 10:33:39 am
The adoptees are usually not infants that were adopted but
adults who spent a little time with an elder and now stole
his cultural ways.

I understand.  But when, as others have said, you "become adopted" without incurring any obligations to those who adopted you, you're misusing the word adoption, which annoys me.

Laurel
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: frederica on August 24, 2007, 02:26:36 pm
That I believe is part of the game. I met a woman who bragged she was adopted by the Kiowa, and she did spend some time in Carlisle. The same woman bragged she was adopted by the Choctaw, and she did know some Choctaw families. She was asked if she knew that this only meant she was part of a family group not a Nation and did she understand her obligations. She looked shocked. I never knew if she didn't know the difference or she thought no one else would. Probably the average person wouldn't. That's how they get away with this.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: crazyeagle on October 07, 2007, 03:35:34 pm
Kwe Earthw7

I have read with interest what you have said..I know of someone claiming to be from the Marshall family - Lakota ..her myspace site is stating from Canada but I happen to know she lives in the UK and had a Jewish english mother. I checked with Joseph Marshall 111rd(she claims he is her cousin) and he doesnt know her or her family so I checked with the Marshalls at Rosebud who have a family member dong their own genealogy and they dont know her or her family either. I have my reservations(pardon the pun! in Nova Scotia we say reserves) about this person. Several other pictures she has on her myspace website are also NOT of her family but pictures taken off the net..a copy and paste job.

Would you take a look for me and give me your opinion?

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=172526485

Welaliek - thank you


Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: crazyeagle on October 07, 2007, 03:40:32 pm
Oh and something else Earthw7....have the Lakota Nation authorized/appointed by council in the last 11 years a Lakota Ambassador to Denmark?...1995 so the paperwork says.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: earthw7 on October 22, 2007, 12:06:23 am
Kwe Earthw7

I have read with interest what you have said..I know of someone claiming to be from the Marshall family - Lakota ..her myspace site is stating from Canada but I happen to know she lives in the UK and had a Jewish english mother. I checked with Joseph Marshall 111rd(she claims he is her cousin) and he doesnt know her or her family so I checked with the Marshalls at Rosebud who have a family member dong their own genealogy and they dont know her or her family either. I have my reservations(pardon the pun! in Nova Scotia we say reserves) about this person. Several other pictures she has on her myspace website are also NOT of her family but pictures taken off the net..a copy and paste job.

Would you take a look for me and give me your opinion?

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=172526485

Welaliek - thank you


I check out her site but would need more information on her.

second message what about the ambassador to denmarck?? who are you talking about?
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: earthw7 on October 22, 2007, 12:09:11 am
I did get a complaint from a man who is married to a woman from Denmarck that has a paper making him ambassodor of Demaeck a while back by a councilman who is no long on the council. I wonder how much money was passed for that one.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Pootatuck on October 30, 2007, 06:18:19 pm
Earth I need help!

The Sicangu have adopted me against my will and I don’t know what to do.  They say I am obligated to support the entire family.  They make me send money all the time to Mission.  I want to love more of them as family members but they will only marry me off one daughter.

What should I do?
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Barnaby_McEwan on October 30, 2007, 06:32:49 pm
Pootatuck's account will remain locked until I get an explanation via PM for the previous post.

Never mind, temporary sense of humour failure there. Normal service is resumed.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Pootatuck on October 30, 2007, 07:24:12 pm
Pootatuck's account will remain locked until I get an explanation via PM for the previous post.

Never mind, temporary sense of humour failure there. Normal service is resumed.

Now how was I supposed to give you an explanation if you locked my account?  Why not just post a reply that you would like an explanation?  Pretty heavy handed.  This place starting to smell like the fat man and Hotel California.

Barnaby, if you don't understand ndn humor, best to leave it alone.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Barnaby_McEwan on October 30, 2007, 08:29:15 pm
Now how was I supposed to give you an explanation if you locked my account?

Via PM, as I said.

Quote
Barnaby, if you don't understand ndn humor, best to leave it alone.

I don't always get it, you're right. However, there have been instances of the most vile abuse directed at female members of this forum and I didn't want to take a chance that this was more of the same. I'm sorry to have treated you so heavy-handedly: perhaps if you had introduced yourself that could have been avoided.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: earthw7 on October 30, 2007, 10:55:23 pm
Earth I need help!

The Sicangu have adopted me against my will and I don’t know what to do.  They say I am obligated to support the entire family.  They make me send money all the time to Mission.  I want to love more of them as family members but they will only marry me off one daughter.

What should I do?


Oh Hi Poota, you have to behave this is not the rez you know
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Pootatuck on October 31, 2007, 12:10:23 am
Earth I need help!

The Sicangu have adopted me against my will and I don’t know what to do.  They say I am obligated to support the entire family.  They make me send money all the time to Mission.  I want to love more of them as family members but they will only marry me off one daughter.

What should I do?


Oh Hi Poota, you have to behave this is not the rez you know


Oh, now you tell me.  I think I jinxed myself.  After I posted this my one sister-in-law called for a 'loan' over to Bismark and then not even  two hours later my wife's uncle needs money  for a rez  car.

Please tell this Barney we like to joke around.     
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: earthw7 on October 31, 2007, 01:26:11 pm
Poota remember just because you are married to a Lakota means we can't adopt you it would incest.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Ranantanonnha on January 13, 2008, 05:30:26 am
Seko,

We of the Haudenosaunee also have rites of adpotion in our Great Law.

Wampum #66
The father of a child of great comeliness, learning, ability or specially loved because of some circumstance may, at the will of the child's clan, select a name from his own (the father's) clan and bestow it by ceremony, such as is provided. This naming shall be only temporary and shall be called, “A name hung about the neck???

Wampum #67
Should any person, a member of the Five Nations' Confederacy, specially esteem a man or woman of another clan or of a foreign nation, he may choose a name and bestow it upon that person so esteemed. The naming shall be in accord with the ceremony of bestowing names. Such a name is only a temporary one and shall be called "A name hung about the neck." A short string of shells shall be delivered with the name as a record and a pledge.

Wampum #68
Should any member of the Five Nations, a family or person belonging to a foreign nation submit a proposal for adoption into a clan of one of the Five Nations, he or they shall furnish a string of shells, a span in length, as a pledge to the clan into which he or they wish to be adopted. The Chiefs of the nation shall then consider the proposal and submit a decision.

Wampum #69
Any member of the Five Nations who through esteem or other feeling wishes to adopt an individual, a family or number of families may offer adoption to him or them and if accepted the matter shall be brought to the attention of the Chiefs for confirmation and the Chiefs must confirm adoption.

Wampum #70
When the adoption of anyone shall have been confirmed by the Chiefs of the Nation, the Chiefs shall address the people of their nation and say: "Now you of our nation, be informed that such a person, such a family or such families have ceased forever to bear their birth nation's name and have buried it in the depths of the earth. Henceforth let no one of our nation ever mention the original name or nation of their birth. To do so will be to hasten the end of our peace.

Wampum #74
When any alien nation or individual is admitted into the Five Nations the admission shall be understood only to be a temporary one. Should the person or nation create loss, do wrong or cause suffering of any kind to endanger the peace of the Confederacy, the Confederate Chiefs shall order one of their war chiefs to reprimand him or them and if a similar offence is again committed the offending party or parties shall be expelled from the territory of the Five Nations.

Wampum #75
When a member of an alien nation comes to the territory of the Five Nations and seeks refuge and permanent residence, the Chiefs of the Nation to which he comes shall extend hospitality and make him a member of the nation. Then shall he be accorded equal rights and privileges in all matters except as after mentioned.

Wampum #76
No body of alien people who have been adopted temporarily shall have a vote in the council of the Chiefs of the Confederacy, for only they who have been invested with Chieftainship titles may vote in the Council. Aliens have nothing by blood to make claim to a vote and should they have it, not knowing all the traditions of the Confederacy, might go against its Great Peace. In this manner the Great Peace would be endangered and perhaps be destroyed.

Wampum #77
When the Chiefs of the Confederacy decide to admit a foreign nation and an adoption is made, the Chiefs shall inform the adopted nation that its admission is only temporary. They shall also say to the nation that it must never try to control, to interfere with or to injure the Five Nations nor disregard the Great Peace or any of its rules or customs. That in no way should they cause disturbance or injury. Then should the adopted nation disregard these injunctions, their adoption shall be annulled and they shall be expelled.
     The expulsion shall be in the following manner: The council shall appoint one of their War Chiefs to convey the message of annulment and he shall say, “You (naming the nation) listen to me while I speak. I am here to inform you again of the will of the Five Nations' Council. It was clearly made known to you at a former time. Now the Chiefs of the Five Nations have decided to expel you and cast you out. We disown you now and annul your adoption. Therefore you must look for a path in which to go and lead away all your people. It was you, not we, who committed wrong and caused this sentence of annulment. So then go your way and depart from the territory of the Five Nations and from the Confederacy.???

I can say however, I have never had anyone foolish enough to try and tell me they were adopted!
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Skully on January 13, 2008, 09:32:53 am
I don't know of us (ojibwe) having anything like this as far as I know. Well at least I've never heard of adoption ceremony.

When you get a name however, you become unofficial kin to the person who gave you the name...and that person will pass you on the name that they have.

My son was named Mishikwud (Gray Cloud) when he was 6 months old by his Uncle with the same name.  The next day, it was announced to the public at a powwow in White Earth.

Some years before that, I was named Asin-amaguun (kind of like "Stands still") by my Uncle with that same name. It too was announced ASAP to the community by posting a flyer at the Ogema Post Office, Waubun Post Office, the tribal office in White Earth, and Cass Lake, and the community building in Natawaush.  I was listed in the newspaper called "Dibaagiimowin" as well.  They let the general public know.

Of course, a headline in the local paper is "So and So family had an extended visitor from St. Cloud."
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Ranantanonnha on January 13, 2008, 05:53:40 pm
Seko,

Our "Naming Ceremonies" are should not be confused with adoption. That's why adoption names are referred to as "a name hung about the neck." Our "formal" names belong to each clan and are perpetual.

For example; John Norton was adopted by Joseph Brant and given the name Teyoninhokarawen. When he died his name died with him.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Leonard on January 18, 2008, 06:17:49 pm
... actually, I do have a question to 'earthw7'. I know of this person who lives on 'Cheyenne' and claims that he is 'hunka' to the 'Little Shield' family. I shall not use any names as I am not trying to dis-credit or cause any problems ... and what I hear you say is that no one has ever been 'made relative' into the Lakota/Dakota/Nakota ? Is this true and do I hear this correctly ? ...

Leonard.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: earthw7 on January 19, 2008, 02:12:53 am
... actually, I do have a question to 'earthw7'. I know of this person who lives on 'Cheyenne' and claims that he is 'hunka' to the 'Little Shield' family. I shall not use any names as I am not trying to dis-credit or cause any problems ... and what I hear you say is that no one has ever been 'made relative' into the Lakota/Dakota/Nakota ? Is this true and do I hear this correctly ? ...

Leonard.


This is what I said:
The Lakota/Dakota/Nakota Nations are in North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Nebraska, Minnesota, three Canadain States. in order for a person to be adopted into the nation it would have to be OKed by all of the nations and bands. I can tell it has never happened.

We have Hunka relatives and they become a part of the family who adopts them but No one has never been adopted into the NATION but into families.


Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Leonard on January 19, 2008, 03:33:46 am
Oh, OK, Thank you. This was my mis-understanding.


Leonard.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: glendadeer on April 03, 2008, 02:00:27 pm
Kickapoos have adoption ceremonies...but this happens only when a person has passed on...depending on if that person left a spouse or not would determine how soon this ceremony would take place...A person of the same sex is chosen by family...usually the children...to replace that person in the family and they do assume the responsibility (somewhat) of the person they are replacing...Is why we always say "we are never without relations"...We take these relationships very serious...Sometimes, this person is of another tribe...is why we say we have Ponca, Kiowa, Cheyenne, Osage, etc relations...

I know of no adoption ceremony where a person has been adopted into our tribe...

You are given your ndn name the first spring of your life...and named into a clan....

Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: zoi lightfoot on April 03, 2008, 02:59:34 pm
Any family can take someone in and refer to them as 'my son/daughter,but at no time does that give them the right to claim Indian Heritage.Anyone claiming to be 'officialy recognized by the Nation they state they are an adoptee of can and should be able to answer when where and on what date were they 'held up before the Nation' We all have different names for these ceremonies but its basicaly ancient tribal law.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Cat on April 07, 2008, 06:48:19 pm
Hi everyone,
I wanted to post on this from a non-native point of view.  I have many native peoples who call me daughter auntie sister etc.... I am a part of my husbands family "through marriage." And also being a part of these circles - I also know that that does not "make me"  Choctaw, Lakota, or Dine etc.....
Anyone who really is part of a real family "knows this"
Being a a part of a family does not make that "your blood"

I know my blood and heritage and am very proud of my peoples... I dont understand people who wannabe something they are NOT....

Cat
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: glendadeer on April 08, 2008, 04:34:40 am
Cat is my sister in law...lol :D
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Cat on April 08, 2008, 06:40:12 pm
Glenda you may be cheesy but I love ya!!!!!!!!!!
Cat
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Barnaby_McEwan on April 08, 2008, 08:04:08 pm
Sorry to be a party pooper but please everyone keep threads on topic.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Cetan on April 14, 2008, 02:54:09 am
I do know several people who were adopted by a very well known and respected Oglala family and it was done i ceremony anbd legally in tribal court and one of the became an enrolled member.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: porkypine on June 12, 2008, 10:08:58 pm
Earth I need help!

The Sicangu have adopted me against my will and I don’t know what to do.  They say I am obligated to support the entire family.  They make me send money all the time to Mission.  I want to love more of them as family members but they will only marry me off one daughter.

What should I do?



 :D  :D  ahahaha... Don't you KNOW it!  The better job you have, the more relatives find you...     And you only get ONE wife... So deal with it..  Oh.. My cousin's nephew on the other side is having a giveaway so we need some help getting ready...

People just don't realize that you are obligated to help your family out... they don't like that part...
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: MatoSiWin on July 21, 2008, 06:23:15 pm
Earth I need help!

The Sicangu have adopted me against my will and I don’t know what to do.  They say I am obligated to support the entire family.  They make me send money all the time to Mission.  I want to love more of them as family members but they will only marry me off one daughter.

What should I do?



 :D  :D  ahahaha... Don't you KNOW it!  The better job you have, the more relatives find you...     And you only get ONE wife... So deal with it..  Oh.. My cousin's nephew on the other side is having a giveaway so we need some help getting ready...

People just don't realize that you are obligated to help your family out... they don't like that part...


LOL... I have a great job and recently bought a house.  My good friend called me, and asked when the family can come move in, lol.  He siad he hopes the adoption records prove us to be cousins (although he has called me that already for nearly 17 years), so that I'm obligated to him and the rest of the cousins, lol".

Obviously, that wouldn't matter... all of them are welcome any time.  But the thread made me laugh when I read that. :)
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Sizzle Flambé on September 13, 2009, 02:29:13 am
"Canadian law is different in that registration as an Indian under the provisions of the Indian Act is not based on percentage of Indian blood quantum. Under previous Indian Acts, it was possible for non-Indians to gain Indian status through marriage. Under the current Act, non-Indians can gain status through adoption by registered Indians." -- <http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/br/is/scs/faq-eng.asp#q23 (http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/br/is/scs/faq-eng.asp#q23)>

That means they can get official government cards certifying them as Indians.

Something to consider if you're shown a Canadian "Secure Certificate of Indian Status" as proof.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Moma_porcupine on September 13, 2009, 03:41:50 pm
Sizzle are you sure this is meaning adults , adopting adults? From what I have read people normally loose their Indian status in Canada after 2 generations of out marriage. I am having a hard time finding information on this , though I know i've read about it before... I see this mentioned in the link below and it appears to be a government website.

http://www.gov.mb.ca/ana/apm2000/1/i.html

See the section Status Inheritance Rules

What you are reading may refer to when a status indian adopts a non status child . 

http://web.ncf.ca/de723/statuschild.html

Quote
Adoptees and the
Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development (Canada)

In Canada, some adoptees may be registered as status Indians and as such, may be eligible for certain benefits.

The registration of persons as Indians is the responsibility of the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development in Ottawa. The Registrar, appointed under the Indian Act, determines who is and who is not entitled to be registered as an Indian using the entitlement criteria provided in the Indian Act. For more information, please see Who is entitled to receive benefits? on the DIAND website. The Indian Act does not allow for a loss of status by reason of adoption. Therefore Indian children remain registered whether they are adopted by Indians or non-Indians. Additionally, the Indian Act allows non-Indian children adopted by Indians to gain Indian status and possibly band membership.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Sizzle Flambé on September 13, 2009, 08:19:41 pm
Sizzle are you sure this is meaning adults , adopting adults? From what I have read people normally loose their Indian status in Canada after 2 generations of out marriage. I am having a hard time finding information on this , though I know i've read about it before... I see this mentioned in the link below and it appears to be a government website.

http://www.gov.mb.ca/ana/apm2000/1/i.html

See the section Status Inheritance Rules

More detail here, at section 9.14 Indian Status and Band Membership (http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/webarchives/20071211051113/http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/ch/rcap/sg/sg26_e.html):

Quote
Subsection 6(1) of the Indian Act accords status to persons whose parents are or were (if they are no longer alive) defined as 'Indian' under section 6 of the act. Subsection 6(2) accords status to persons with one parent who is or was an Indian under section 6. All those who were status Indians when the new rules came into effect in 1985 are referred to as 6(1) status Indians. This includes non-Indian women who were married to Indian men at that time.

The difficulties arise for the children and grandchildren of today's 6(1) and 6(2) status Indians. For the grandchildren of the present generation of 6(1) and 6(2) Indians, the manner in which their parents and grandparents acquired status is an important determinant of whether the grandchildren have Indian status themselves. The net result of the new rules is that by the third generation, the effects of the 6(1)/6(2) distinction will be felt most clearly. Figure 9.1 shows how transmission of status works under the new rules.

(http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/webarchives/20071211051113/http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/ch/rcap/sg/images/sg_e250-00.jpg)

Thus, comparing examples 3 and 5, it is clear that the children of a 6(2) parent are penalized immediately if the 6(2) parent marries out, while the children of 6(1) parents are not. Figure 9.2 extends the effects of the 6(1)/6(2) difference in examples 3 and 5 to illustrate this.

It is clear that the 6(1) parent has an advantage in terms of time if he or she marries out, since the child will still be a status Indian and will have the chance to marry another status Indian, 6(1) or 6(2), in order to retain Indian status for the children of that marriage. The 6(2) parent is not so fortunate, and may by marrying out cause status to be lost within the first generation. Thus, who the children marry is crucial in determining whether status is passed on to future generations, since there is a definite disadvantage to being in the 6(2) category. Nor should it be forgotten that this has very little to do with actual Indian ancestry, since the new rules are arbitrary and are built on the arbitrary distinctions that have come down through the history of the Indian Act and its predecessors.

What you are reading may refer to when a status indian adopts a non status child . 

http://web.ncf.ca/de723/statuschild.html

Quote
Adoptees and the
Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development (Canada)

In Canada, some adoptees may be registered as status Indians and as such, may be eligible for certain benefits.

The registration of persons as Indians is the responsibility of the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development in Ottawa. The Registrar, appointed under the Indian Act, determines who is and who is not entitled to be registered as an Indian using the entitlement criteria provided in the Indian Act. For more information, please see Who is entitled to receive benefits? on the DIAND website. The Indian Act does not allow for a loss of status by reason of adoption. Therefore Indian children remain registered whether they are adopted by Indians or non-Indians. Additionally, the Indian Act allows non-Indian children adopted by Indians to gain Indian status and possibly band membership.

That site (home page http://web.ncf.ca/de723/adoptee.html (http://web.ncf.ca/de723/adoptee.html)) is specifically for people born to Indian parents who were adopted out as children to non-Indian parents -- so its concern is adoption as a child. It simply doesn't address adoption as an adult.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Moma_porcupine on September 14, 2009, 12:58:25 am
Sizzle, I think what you read only refers to people who were adopted before the age of 18 .

The court case in the link below has lots of information on all angles of this.

http://www.msaj.com/Indian_Law_Cases/Buffalo%20v%20Canada%202005%20ABQB%20372%20(Can%20LII).pdf

Quote
Therefore, before individuals who are adopted as adults can acquire entitlement to Indian status and band membership through adoption, it must be established that the adoptee was adopted in all practical senses of the term by the adoptive parents while still a minor.

It may be i don't have all the facts , but it seems you are spreading incorrect information. I don't know why. You also mentioned this in your introduction. If you are going to say this, I think you should post some links to some credible websites that specifically state that in Canada people can get adopted as adults and gain Indian status. The link you posted DOES NOT specify whether this is reffering to children or adults.  It just says just says "adoption". The link above makes it very clear this means adoption as a child.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Sizzle Flambé on September 14, 2009, 04:25:35 am
It may be i don't have all the facts , but it seems you are spreading incorrect information. I don't know why.

MP, the above passages I cut-and-pasted with links are from <http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/ (http://<http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/br/is/scs/faq-eng.asp#q23>)>, Indian and Northern Affairs Canada, the federal government department in charge of these issues. You can click those links to see that I didn't alter a word. If you don't consider that a "credible website", I can't help you. Why you choose to accuse me of dishonesty for posting these direct quotes and links, I don't know, but it makes saying anything else to you pointless.

With regard to your cited court case, you quote paragraph 6 (on page 3) as though it settled the case. But read paragraphs 49 (on page 9) through 62 (on page 11), which cite the Adult Adoption Act. The court expressly noted that "child" (of a parent) does not always mean "minor", it can (and does in the Adult Adoption Act) include adult offspring and adoptees; and that Parliament could have but did not specify "minor child" in the Indian Act.

Quote
[61] Finally, it should also be noted that the Noël case involved an adult adoption in the province of Quebec. There appeared to be no dispute as to the entitlement of an adult adoptee to be added to a Band List but only whether a fraud had been perpetrated in the adoption procedure.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Moma_porcupine on September 14, 2009, 12:38:49 pm
Sizzle
Quote
You can click those links to see that I didn't alter a word.
 

Sizzle the link you posted and what you quoted from the link says nothing about adoption of adults. You are choosing to interpret it that way.

You published this link in your introduction, and there you said ...

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2312.75
Reply #75
Sizzle Flambé 
Quote
Well, I suppose there's a gaping loophole to let in every fake "Indian" on that list: get adopted by an enrolled Indian in Canada -- it instantly qualifies you to register as "Indian" yourself under Canadian law, even if you have not a drop of Indian ancestry and never learned anything about any tribe's culture:

i doubt you are doing Canadian First Nations any favours by inventing silly rumors that if people go to canada and find someone with Indian status to adopt them they can get Indian status too ...

In your very selective citing of the court case, you are quoting things out of context. In context, it repeatedly says if the person is an adult they must have shown they were raised as a minor child  by the family legally adopting them .

In context, and just before the tiny bit you quoted....
 
Quote
[60]
The Registrar did obtain the requisite supporting documentation from Boczek and upon being satisfied that there had been a de facto adoption of Boczek while he was a minor, she allowed his application to be added to the Indian Register and the Band List, based on his legal adoption. Contrary to the early submissions of Samson to the Registrar, it was not relevant to her whether there had been a “custom adoption” of Boczek by Percy Johnson nor was it important for her to consult Samson as to its custom concerning adoptions. The Registrar was satisfied that an actual legal adoption had occurred and her investigation into whether a de facto adoption existed while Boczek was a minor was to ensure that the actual adoption was not a fraudulent attempt to gain benefits from band membership that Boczek would not otherwise be entitled to obtain. Such a result would have been contrary to the purposes of the Indian Act

And then quoting the bit you quoted , but in context
Quote
[61] Finally, it should also be noted that the Noël case involved an adult adoption in the province of Quebec. There appeared to be no dispute as to the entitlement of an adult adoptee to be added to a Band List but only whether a fraud had been perpetrated in the adoption procedure.

Earlier in the document it clearly explained that Noel was also a child who was raised by the people who legally adopted him as an adult...

Quote
[41] (begins....)As in the case at bar, Noël was an adult at the time of the adoption judgment and the Registrar conducted an investigation to confirm that a de facto adoption had occurred when he was a minor. (continues...)

 You are leaving out all the parts that don't fit with what you seem to want to believe...Who knows why .... I don't want to keep arguing with you but if you do, people need to be careful about accepting what you post without really going over it for themselves.

Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Sizzle Flambé on September 14, 2009, 03:27:30 pm
Sizzle Flambé  
Quote
Well, I suppose there's a gaping loophole to let in every fake "Indian" on that list: get adopted by an enrolled Indian in Canada -- it instantly qualifies you to register as "Indian" yourself under Canadian law, even if you have not a drop of Indian ancestry and never learned anything about any tribe's culture:

i doubt you are doing Canadian First Nations any favours by inventing silly rumors that if people go to canada and find someone with Indian status to adopt them they can get Indian status too ...

The people I am trying to "do favours" are those unaware innocents who may be shown a Canadian "Certificate of Indian Status" as proof of actual Indian ancestry, and who might otherwise naïvely accept it as such -- when it proves no such thing.

Thus the very next sentence of <http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/br/is/scs/faq-eng.asp#q23 (http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/br/is/scs/faq-eng.asp#q23)> after the one I previously quoted: "As such, United States Immigration and Naturalization usually requests that an individual provide a letter of blood quantum from his or her First Nation or a letter from an INAC office verifying an individual's Indian ancestry." (to enter the United States to live or work without a green card or work permit -- the CIS not being sufficient proof.)

In your very selective citing of the court case, you are quoting things out of context. In context, it repeatedly says if the person is an adult they must have shown they were raised as a minor child by the family legally adopting them.

Which they may "show" by submitting Statutory Declarations from their adoptive parents and friends or neighbors to that effect -- to wit, pieces of paper with writing and notary stamps.

Now am I really being uncharitable to suggest that the sorts of frauds whose fakery we discuss here could submit just such documents (as fake as everything else) without a qualm, in order to get a real government certification of their being Indians?

Consider what Steven Akins of Jasper, Alabama, did (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Clan_Akins&oldid=255998453#A_Clan_Akins.3F) to "show" Scotland's Lord Lyon King of Arms that he was "Akins of that Ilk", duly descended chief of the Clan, entitled to assume the vacant chiefship: provided a fake genealogy (http://www.genealogy.com/users/a/k/i/Steven-L-Akins-of-that-ilk/index.html), faked wills (http://homepage.eircom.net/%257Eseanjmurphy/chiefs/akins2.htm) (with stamps!), and even digitally modified gravestone photos (http://homepage.eircom.net/%257Eseanjmurphy/chiefs/akins1.htm). He now markets his book alleged to be an ancient scripture of the Druids (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Druid#.22The_Lebor_Feasa_Runda.22), translated from German. (Said German text upon examination is only a bad computer translation from the English.)

Would four fake "Statutory Declarations" even be a challenge for him? And do you think other "New Age Frauds and Plastic Shamans" are far more honest and scrupulous than that?
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: earthw7 on September 15, 2009, 02:53:56 am
so what does this have to do with traditional ceremonies of adoption by tribal people?
Government has little knowledge of our ceremonies such as Hunka
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Sizzle Flambé on September 15, 2009, 04:54:12 am
so what does this have to do with traditional ceremonies of adoption by tribal people?
Government has little knowledge of our ceremonies such as Hunka

It has to do with some consequences of adoption by tribal people, in Canada, unlike in the USA.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Cetan on September 15, 2009, 01:39:19 pm
The adoption ceremony this thread is about is a traditional ceremony, there is no paperwork or any sort of legal documentation involved. It is done in front of members of the family and community and is not something done lightly. Back in the day some tribes would allow adopted family members (and also spouses who married into the tribe) to become enrolled members however the ID card would say 0/4 blood quantum.  Unfortunately there are still blood quantum enrolled tribal members who also sell ceremonies.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: earthw7 on September 16, 2009, 12:22:43 am
the legal adoption have nothing to do with ceremomial adoptions.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Sizzle Flambé on September 16, 2009, 03:23:55 am
The adoption ceremony this thread is about is a traditional ceremony,...

the legal adoption have nothing to do with ceremonial adoptions.

But under Canadian law, either a legal adoption or a "custom adoption" (i.e. according to the custom of the tribe/nation) can be the basis for membership in that tribe/nation, and for receiving a "Certificate of Indian Status".

This is touched upon in Buffalo v Canada 2005, the court case MP linked earlier, although the case itself involved a legal adoption.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Superdog on September 16, 2009, 09:48:03 pm
It may be i don't have all the facts , but it seems you are spreading incorrect information. I don't know why.

MP, the above passages I cut-and-pasted with links are from <http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/ (http://<http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/br/is/scs/faq-eng.asp#q23>)>, Indian and Northern Affairs Canada, the federal government department in charge of these issues. You can click those links to see that I didn't alter a word. If you don't consider that a "credible website", I can't help you. Why you choose to accuse me of dishonesty for posting these direct quotes and links, I don't know, but it makes saying anything else to you pointless.

With regard to your cited court case, you quote paragraph 6 (on page 3) as though it settled the case. But read paragraphs 49 (on page 9) through 62 (on page 11), which cite the Adult Adoption Act. The court expressly noted that "child" (of a parent) does not always mean "minor", it can (and does in the Adult Adoption Act) include adult offspring and adoptees; and that Parliament could have but did not specify "minor child" in the Indian Act.

Quote
[61] Finally, it should also be noted that the Noël case involved an adult adoption in the province of Quebec. There appeared to be no dispute as to the entitlement of an adult adoptee to be added to a Band List but only whether a fraud had been perpetrated in the adoption procedure.

In this case the parents who were adopting (Percy and Betty Johnson) had to prove that they raised Boczek (the adoptee) from the time before his majority status.  The status of adoption of a minor remains applicable as they granted a de facto adoption based on the fact that the parents raised him from before the age of 18 until he was able to take care of himself.

When it comes to adult adoptees and the Indian Act in Canada...individuals still have to prove they were raised by status Indians as minors.

I think you've misread a lot Sizzle.  I gotta agree with Moma Porcupine on this one, but I will grant you that it is a government program with lots of holes in it and because of previous mistakes in older versions of the Indian Act it is confusing and definitely not a perfect system....however I don't see the ability of new agers or frauds to take advantage of it by being "adopted" into a tribe and the mistakes of the Indian Act tend to be more exlusive rather than inclusive.  It's just not there.....it's pretty clear from the links you and MP posted and especially in the court case posted that adult adoptees have to prove they were raised as minors by status Indians to be able to receive a Status card.  Custom adoption included.

So, for everyone reading, let's get it clear.  Traditional adoption by a band or by individual members as an adult is NOT a pathway to a Status Card in Canada. 

Superdog
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: earthw7 on September 17, 2009, 10:12:05 am
Thanks Supperdog ;D
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Sizzle Flambé on September 18, 2009, 07:28:52 am
When it comes to adult adoptees and the Indian Act in Canada...individuals still have to prove they were raised by status Indians as minors.

Already addressed in the latter half of reply #43 on the previous page. (http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1294.msg18960#msg18960)
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Cetan on September 19, 2009, 07:11:19 pm
no point in arguing anymore, obviously this sizzle knows more about adoption ceremonies than our residfent full blooded tribal historian Earth7
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on October 14, 2009, 05:47:13 am
.  
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: MattOKC on November 10, 2009, 02:35:52 am
I realize a ceremonially-adopted individual has no legal or ceremonial authority. But do the other tribal members SOCIALLY acknowledge the adopted? I mean, is it like in the "old days" when the person is claimed by the people, not just the family, and regarded as a belonging person?
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: earthw7 on November 10, 2009, 10:16:46 pm
when you are adopted you have four or more witness so if anyone
ask if you can prove your adoption you give the witness name.
Yes, we acknowledge our relatives once they are adopted and
address them as such. Uncle./aunt/brother/sister ect...
Everyone in the family will acknowledge the adoption of
course when you do the ceremony you invite all the family
so that they can welcome you.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Unegv Waya on February 02, 2010, 06:03:48 pm
Wado, Earthw7, for the real truth about this.  I too have ran across many who say they were adopted into a Sioux family then go on the claim they are now Lakota.  Most of them don't even know that the Dakota and Nakota even exist.  Funny that.

I've only ever met two people who were truly adopted by a Sioux family and they never made any claims about anything.  What you posted is exactly what those two individuals did say as far as what an adoption means and what it doesn't.  That makes two out of the dozens who tried to say something contradictory like how they were taught ceremonies and medicine and other such nonsense.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: flyaway on February 02, 2010, 09:19:24 pm
I also agree with 2 prvious posts, being adopted into a Lakota family does not give you any rights to do anything. It is not like a "legal" adoption by the court.  :)
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Yiwah on May 27, 2010, 11:54:03 pm
This is what I said:
The Lakota/Dakota/Nakota Nations are in North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Nebraska, Minnesota, three Canadain States.

Just a minor quibble...

Canada doesn't have states, we have provinces.  I know there are Nakoda in Alberta and Saskatchewan...are there Nakoda elsewhere in Canada?

Sorry for the insert:)
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: earthw7 on May 28, 2010, 03:19:37 pm
That is my fault I was probably typing to fast again.
No offense to my relatives the Nakota.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Hair lady on March 09, 2011, 04:44:15 pm
well my son was legaly adopted by my German husband...he is a memeber of the navajo nation, and is part lenape, and white, and has at least 10 lakota uncles, that watch out for him and pray for him....see what a lot of people don´t understand is that calling someone your uncle or aunty, or grandma, amoungst natives is a term of respect.  I don´t know anything about Lakota adoption ceremonies..but with us Lenape, if you take someone in then they are part of your family, and are treated that way. You feed them cloth them and if there is ceremony you take them with you.  I wonder why this is sucha  big issue...if a ndn person decides to adopt someone from the outside then it is thier right, and I don´t feel good about deciding what people should be abel to do and not do concerning this issue.
I can not know what the spirits told these other people.   MAybe they said adopt that person.



Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: rickmiller on March 14, 2011, 02:04:44 am
I have to agree with what was said earlier,as it it acceptable and that families right if they choose to adopt someone into thier family,thats fine they are a part of that family,however,that doesnt make them a part of that particular Nation. It is a huge problem as i see on facebook especially this person from Lenhartsville Pennsylvania,claimin,"I'm adopted Lakota" well she may have been adopted into a particular family,but that does NOT make her Lakota,PERIOD! She has no card,no CDIB,and has even posted on her site that she "Cannot find any Native bloodline" in her family tree,and yet is getting alot of attention because shes"Adopted Lakota" and people who dont know any better are amazed by this. To me people like that are misleading and miseducating the public. And making themselves look really silly to the ones theyre trying to impress but know better than that.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: rickmiller on March 14, 2011, 02:07:02 am
earthw7 ,Thank you for posting this! If u have a facebook page could you please post this on there so a few "Adopted" Lakotas i see on there can see this also? Rick
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Hair lady on March 18, 2011, 03:28:51 pm
LOl Hey Rick I bet she is getting lots of attention..EVERY one loves those lakotas hehe....

I wouldn´t worry about it too much though...waste of time if you ask me..as long as she´s not exploiting people or selling ceremonies...

Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: rickmiller on March 19, 2011, 01:36:42 am
Hello Ms. Hair lady  how are you? Well i dont know if shes exploiting it too much but now that shes "Adopted" Lakota,everything she makes now is "Native made" i have seen that on her crafts.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: earthw7 on March 19, 2011, 02:15:27 am
well my son was legaly adopted by my German husband...he is a memeber of the navajo nation, and is part lenape, and white, and has at least 10 lakota uncles, that watch out for him and pray for him....see what a lot of people don´t understand is that calling someone your uncle or aunty, or grandma, amoungst natives is a term of respect.  I don´t know anything about Lakota adoption ceremonies..but with us Lenape, if you take someone in then they are part of your family, and are treated that way. You feed them cloth them and if there is ceremony you take them with you.  I wonder why this is sucha  big issue...if a ndn person decides to adopt someone from the outside then it is thier right, and I don´t feel good about deciding what people should be abel to do and not do concerning this issue.
I can not know what the spirits told these other people.   MAybe they said adopt that person.








you know we are not talking about adoption with children but these adults who claim to be adopted and become an instance medicine man
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: earthw7 on March 19, 2011, 02:18:43 am
LOl Hey Rick I bet she is getting lots of attention..EVERY one loves those lakotas hehe....

I wouldn´t worry about it too much though...waste of time if you ask me..as long as she´s not exploiting people or selling ceremonies...



people who claim to be adopted but do not live among the people but use our name is personal gain are telling lies
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Hair lady on March 19, 2011, 02:28:14 pm
@earth of course I know that... was just stateing about legal adoptions, and family adoptions in general :o   And no just because you are adopted into a family does not mean that what you make is automaticly native made. That is just silly. Now and this is just hypotheticly speaking what if a natvie family adopted a person and they craftred items and then donated those items to a good cause to help that familes Nation? My point is that there are not set rules about this, each family, Nation sees it differently, and I am not the person who is authorized to make official set in stone rules about what an adopted person can do. I can just give my opinion on it, and hope that when a person has the honor to be adopted inot a native family that they treat that with respect. I feel that there is so much more important issues to worry about...like next winter...again just my opinion.
@ rick the sun is shining and spring is here! I feel pretty good!
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: earthw7 on March 19, 2011, 03:28:25 pm
we do have rules for our ceremonies that are a thousand years old
I was taught that there is no One way but the is a way and it is
a thousand years old.
I understand our native adoption ceremonies it is called Hunka, I have three Hunka
brother and soon to have four Hunka sons all of them know they are not adopted
by the nation only by me which means as their sister and mother I am treated as such
but they do not speak for my nation, my ceremonies, or my culture.
There is an honor and respect that happens with these ceremonies my hunka sons are
all my from nation so it is not a problem with them known their rights, but my hunka brother
were adopted by my father and two are Japanese and one is Jewish they are repeated told
there place in my family. They are very respectful
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: rickmiller on March 19, 2011, 08:19:13 pm
Earth7,
    As a Native (Not Lakota) however still a Native,its offensive to me when a wasichu claims to be adopted into a Nation when they are only adopted into a family,and uses that to get attention and to sell items. I feel its exploiting the culture,and making a joke of the true adoption ways. Thats just my opinion. Rick
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Hair lady on March 21, 2011, 11:56:14 am
The ceremonies of our Peoples are thousands of years old,, this is the truth. They were made before contact happend. So I suposse it can get confusing now a days. Again I would say it is an honor to be adopted out of love into a family, and that person should treat this adoption with respect. A person who does this has no problems. It seem some people go overboard with it for sure. I have great respect for other Peoples ways myself. Thank you earth for sharing about your way.

Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: NicoleK on May 13, 2012, 12:50:43 pm
Sorry if this has been answered, I read through the 5 pages and didn't see it, though...

... does this pertain to infants?

If an infertile Lakota couple decides to adopt, say, a 10-month-old Japanese-American baby out of the foster system, does that mean the child doesn't get to be a member of the Lakota nation?

Also, what if they decide to use a surrogate mother?

I don't know anyone in any of these situations, I'm just curious.

If I were to adopt a Chinese baby, she'd get Swiss/US citizenships and all the benefits and responsibilities (taxes) associated with those nations. However, there'd definitely be some (not all) Swiss people who would think to themselves, "Yes, but she's not REALLY Swiss". It would be a personal thing, though, not a legal status issue.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: earthw7 on May 14, 2012, 12:57:24 pm
Sorry if this has been answered, I read through the 5 pages and didn't see it, though...

... does this pertain to infants?

If an infertile Lakota couple decides to adopt, say, a 10-month-old Japanese-American baby out of the foster system, does that mean the child doesn't get to be a member of the Lakota nation?

Also, what if they decide to use a surrogate mother?

I don't know anyone in any of these situations, I'm just curious.

If I were to adopt a Chinese baby, she'd get Swiss/US citizenships and all the benefits and responsibilities (taxes) associated with those nations. However, there'd definitely be some (not all) Swiss people who would think to themselves, "Yes, but she's not REALLY Swiss". It would be a personal thing, though, not a legal status issue.

No they would have no rights, They would have to be born to one or more Native parents
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on May 17, 2012, 04:01:40 pm
Wow. So an adopted baby would grow up never having the same rights as the rest of their family, they would never really feel they belonged.. sorry, but I think that's really sad. I can understand an adult, but a baby? .. just really sad here.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: educatedindian on May 17, 2012, 04:23:46 pm
I don't know why you'd think they "never really belong." Does a minority child adopted by white parents feel the same?

It's little different than children born in the US who are automatically citizens, but their parents are not because they were born elsewhere.

Adopting into the tribe used to be quite different pre reservation days, much more common. BQ is pretty much a colonialism inherited practice. But I see why it's kept. Imagine the incredible abuse, and huge public outcry by those already hostile to NDNs, if nonNatives actually could be adopted into tribes. "Why're we throwing away my tax dollars on people who ain't really Indians?"
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on May 18, 2012, 02:05:28 am
Those political items, sure, they wouldn't be eligible for as they are not ndn. But to grow up in a community knowing you don't have any rights, or the same rights as the rest of the people, would be, imo, rather horrible. A 2nd class citizen that doesn't really belong. That's just my opinion and it really doesn't matter here anyway. It just makes me sad.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: earthw7 on May 18, 2012, 01:36:11 pm
I never though a person would be a second class citizen because they are not enrolled! :o
We have many people who live here among the tribe that are not enrolled they are no different
that anyone else here, the difference is they follow state law instead of tribal law.
To be truthful i have never seen a native couple adopted a white child, that is something new
i could hear the out cry if that happened. I know the united states would step in that case.
Two of my own grandchildren are not enrolled but they are still my grandchildren ;D

The rolls are today by blood quantum to protect us as a people when they first started BQ is
was a way to get rid of us now today we use it to protect us. We do have to protect ourselves
from the world so that we can live as a people.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: MsWilma on May 19, 2012, 03:53:31 am
Hi from Australia,

On the one hand, being a white australian, this is none of my business, so I apologise before hand if anyone here feels I'm intruding.
On the other hand, as a human being I'm looking at the notion of 'blood quotient' . I'm coming from a from a culture without blood quotient as a requirement of proof re: an individual's indigenous status. (...anymore, but that's a loong history in itself)
It disturbs me that someone's 'blood quotient' could be used to determine anyof their rights within any society.

Educated Indian writes:
" Imagine the incredible abuse, and huge public outcry by those already hostile to NDNs, if nonNatives actually could be adopted into tribes. "Why're we throwing away my tax dollars on people who ain't really Indians?"

In the past couple of years, Australia has had a celebrated courtcase, in which a journalist accused a group of fair skinned people of indigenous descent and holding respected roles within their communities, of 'not being aboriginal enough', and exploiting aboriginal culture for their own purposes.  He was found guilty of defamation for a range of reasons. I posted a thread re his trial some time ago. You'll find it here, if you're interested:
 http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=3272.0

I feel proud to be part of a culture willing to  attempt to stand up to the abuse and outcry created by racial hostility (I'm not saying we get it all right- just that I believe that its the right thing to do)

I like Australia's current legal definition of Aboriginality. It has 3 parts:

An Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander is
-a person of Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander descent
-who identifies as an Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander and
-is accepted as such by the community in which he [or she] lives.

Here's a link to the Australian Law Reform Commission's info on legal definitions of aboriginality:
 http://www.alrc.gov.au/publications/36-kinship-and-identity/legal-definitions-aboriginality

Humans being what we are, there may well be individuals out there who exploit this definition for their own purposes. I still like it.
Yes, this leads to debate and dissension. I believe that it's debate that we need to have.

Again, I may have dragged this thread off topic- sorry  :) It's relevance to this topic, I suppose, is that in my (outsiders) opinion, surely it's up to each tribe to decide for themselves who is and isnt a part of their community? Rather than some externally imposed 'proof'?
If blood quotient is important to a community for cultural reasons I dont understand, well then, thats just the way its going to be. But it would be a pity if a community is hanging onto blood quotients, because there's a fear that it's the only way to prove their right to exist - to outsiders who the world around have used notions of race such as 'blood quotients' for some pretty unpalatable reasons.

 



Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: earthw7 on May 19, 2012, 09:37:45 am
I guess you will have to understand the united states policy it was created by the united States started in 1770
and today the tribes have taken what was forced on them and made it a policy to protect themselves of course each
nation decided who belong to them so some tribes have lineal descendant, well other have blood quantum, and then the
blood quantum is total up to the tribe so it goes from 1/2 to 1/16. So in my nation you have to be 1/4 blood from my tribe
and one or more parents on our rolls, we allow all dakota-lakota-nakota tribes.
But some nations allow all native blood, some only allow from the mother's side or the father's side.

Today we have fakes-frauds and other who will take our culture and spirituality claiming to be adopted into our tribes
and became so sort of medicine man-aka shaman or something crazy like that. So we say prove it to us that you belong
to us. Most of the blood quantum has a lot to do with land and the ownership of our land, we are still landowners.
We know that we have to protect ourselves from the non native who think they can take what they want from our culture,
to steal our names, our spirituality and our way of life, i even heard a white woman running around Australia claiming to be
the white buffalo calf woman or those who are doing sweat lodge ceremonies in your country which is an horrid and should
never have happened. The bottom line is This site is not about Blood quantum.
I am proud to be 7/8 Ihunktonwana, Pabaska, Sisseton, Hunkpapa, Sihasapa and 1/8 Oglala, I still say it is our right as a tribal nation to decide who belong to my nation and no one has the right to tell us other wise
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: MsWilma on May 19, 2012, 10:27:57 am
Hi earthw7, thanks for replying to me, yes, it is absolutely your right to decide who belongs to your tribes and who does not. There are a lot of nations in North America who've been working on this for centuries. You know a lot more about this than I ever will, and its not really my business,so as I said earlier, I apologise if I offend you by giving my opinion. It's only another opinion.

And yes, here in Australia, land rights have a long long way to go, and indigenous australians were denied  the vote until as recently as 1962. We have a shameful history  of colonial invasion, massacre and exploitation that continues to this day. Nevertheless, I'm glad that the 'blood quotient' discussion is not currently an issue. Historically Austrralia hasnt got a lot right in terms of indigenous rights, so I'm probably proud of our stand on this, because we've got so much wrong...

 I support this site exposing the whole plastic shaman phenomenon. I found NAFPS after some local friends began sending me links to a fake shaman. I learn a lot here, and this site has led me to learning a lot more about our history here in Aus as well.

I think that the white woman you're referring to was a US citizen, Marlo Morgan. She popped up in the 90s with an offensive book called 'Mutant Message Down Under'. I also remember aboriginal people here protesting her story, so I've just googled her again. She mainly sold her story to the european and US markets (more sales and money than Australia). A group of elders travelled to the USA and confronted Morgan about the book. She admitted that she faked it, but her admission didnt get much press.
Here's a link to the wikipedia story on Morgan:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marlo_Morgan
Here's a link to the Dumbartung report on the work the elders did in the 90s to discredit her:
http://dumbartung.org.au/report1.html

- She was only one of many. There are plenty of frauds named on this site who come down to Australia, where they find an easy audience. This site is really valuable for educating people here, so thankyou.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on May 19, 2012, 06:14:56 pm
Hi. Thanks for responding. I wasn't speaking about BQ or the things that ndn's are eligible for from the USA. When Earth replied that they would have no rights, I took it to mean within the community. No voting rights in community matters, no rights in ceremonies, etc. And that would leave a person feeling rather bad about their self, imo, it would be hurtful. Not being eligible for things from USA because of BQ shouldn't be hurtful to anyone. :) Sorry for the confusion.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: tecpaocelotl on May 23, 2012, 04:33:40 pm
Does anyone think that since Johnny Depp was adopted by that family that white people are going to think it's as easy as the articles are written as? LOL.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Defend the Sacred on May 23, 2012, 04:58:31 pm
Yes. Thankfully this article quotes Native Appropriations blogger Adrienne Keene (Cherokee), and clarifies that he was adopted by one Native person, not the whole tribe (as some are reporting. I didn't think they got all the Comanches, everywhere, to adopt this jerk. (And sorry, yes, he's a very talented actor and I used to think he was pretty cool. but he's being a major jerk about all of this.)):

Why Can Johnny Depp Play Tonto, but Ashton Kutcher and Sacha Baron Cohen Get Slammed? (http://www.eonline.com/news/ask_the_answer_bitch/why_can_johnny_depp_play_tonto_ashton/318280)

I'll also post the article in the Johnny Depp Thread (http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=3318.msg31070#msg31070).
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: earthw7 on February 19, 2013, 09:15:11 pm
I just redid the Adoption ceremony for people so they can understand a little better,

Ohunkagapi-Making of Relatives
Hunka- Hunkalowanpi....The Making of Relatives Ritual                                                                                       
The Hunka Ceremony is one of the Seven Sacred Rites of the Lakota/Dakota/Nakota people given to them by the White Buffalo Calf Pipe Woman.
The Making of Relatives or what is called the Hunka adoption ceremonies of the Lakota/Dakota/Nakota is an adoption ceremony to adopt an individual into a family. This can happen if you lose a family member then you can adopt another member into your family. When you are close to an Individual for a long time and you want honor the relationship you can adopt them as a member of your family.
This relationship is sacred it is an adoption though god. The Hunka relatives have the rights to care for their new family as they care for you. To care for your new mother, father, brother, sister and make sure they are warm and safe. 

Hunkalowanpi or Hunka Ritual, This ceremony is very old all the Teton, Isanti, Yankton and Yanktonais have it but the Isanti claim it. The Hunka is a ceremony to make a person a relative he or she understood to have taken ceremonial parents or relative which are to be as dear as their natural parents. This ceremony is for life and it is a voluntary position where one takes the obligation toward his new relatives. Once you accept Hunka you cannot say later I don’t want to be your relative, I no longer wish to be relative to you, your own self respect constrains you to keep the relationship and you must respect your Hunka relatives for the rest of your life. A person can have more than one Hunka ceremony. A hunka would obligate him or herself to perpetual kindness, generosity and well doing toward those who are Hunka. The Hunka is so sacred and binding that nobody made fun of it.  When a Hunka ceremony was proposed the families would careful think it over for a long time, they would look at the other family to see if they want to ceremonial belong to them it was not a ceremony to take lightly.

There are two kind of Hunka ceremonies Cahake awicakozapi-the wave brush like stick over the people, or Wiyaka ToTo U awicalwapi- They sang over them using Blue Feathers. A tipi was erected facing the sun rise or a buffalo hide placed on the ground, a buffalo skull is place in the center, the individual who are doing the Hunka shall take a seat their new Hunka family shall place new garment or blanket on their new Hunka family. The new relatives will give food and water to their new relative. The Hunka family will paint the faces of their new relatives this is called Waka-owicawapi-Holy Painting. The paint of the face is a blue line across the center of the forehead and blue line across the center of hairline a feather shall be tied to crown of the hair. Two brushes like branch are waved over their heads in the four directions and above and below. Each of the Hunka makes a pledge to their new Hunka relative, to give food, give water, clothing and warmth all there days. They have mercy, generosity and to be there for them and do good things for their relatives. They would have a great feed and giveaway to honor their new relatives. With this the ritual ends, and gifts are exchanged between the families of the Hunka.

What they are NOT!
The Oyate-(Nation) or tribal nation cannot make relatives with one person because there is no ceremony for this process.  A Hunka is a ceremony for individuals. There has never been a person who has been adopted into the Lakota or Dakota or Nakota Nation. This has not happen in the past or today. In order for a person to be adopted into the nation all the Nations would have to be agreed to one individual.  That agreement must be agreed on by all of the three Lakota-Dakota-Nakota nations; bands which include the 14 reservations in the Northern Plains and nine Canadian Reserves.  There have been some tribes that have made individuals honorary members but those members do not have the right to vote, be enrolled, or eligible for services as a tribal member.

Traditional Hunka relatives do NOT have the right to do any of the following due to adoption ceremony.
•   The Individual has No Rights to do traditional ceremonies,
•   The Individual has NO Rights to our oral stories
•   The Individual has NO Rights to traditional medicine,
•   The Individual has No Rights to inherit medicine men names, without family approval
•   The Individual has No Right to take the names of the Hunka Family, without family approval
•   The Individual has No Right to speak for any tribal nations
•   The Individual has No Right to speak for Tribal governments,
•   The Individual has No Rights to speak for the adopted families without family approval.
•   The Individual has no right to vote in a tribal election
•   The Individual has no right to be enrolled in a tribe
•   The Individual has no rights to be eligible for services as a tribal member
•   If a person claims to be adopted by a Hunka ceremony of the Lakota or Dakota or Nakota Nation it is not true: they can only be adopted by a family.
•   If a person claim to be taught medicine by a Lakota or Dakota or Nakota person by rights of Hunka then they should have the permission from all the members of that family.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: earthw7 on February 19, 2013, 09:38:22 pm
please feel free to use this
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: MattOKC on April 02, 2013, 06:32:52 am
Here in Oklahoma, my Cheyene-Arapaho friends have an associate--a friend--named Billy (that's his name, not a pseudonym for the sake of the story). Billy is a full-blooded white guy.

But here's the thing. Billy's grandfather was a missionary to the C&A tribes, but rather than being part of the genocidal colonization type of missionary, he integrated into the tribes. He learned the language fluently, and memorized songs. He became so renowned that later in his life, the tribes would come to him to verify facts or ask questions about older ways.

Billy has kept that tradition. He knows the language, sings the songs, knows the stories (I've seen full-bloods ask him to help remind them how a story goes), he helps in ceremonies, and he knows most of the active families here in the area.

Now, I've never heard Billy try to pass himself off as an Indian. He's comfortable identifying as a white guy. But here's the thing: the traditional C&A's practically insist that he's "one of us." They see Billy as having all the authenticity and belonging as anyone else in their families, and expect to see him at the sundances and sweats. He knows the arrow-keeper and bundle-keeper. Billy is fully culturally-adopted in every sense of the word, yet he doesn't exploit that and start promoting himself as a "holy person who was trained by so-and-so to do ceremonies" and that crap. He just shows up, sings, moves rocks, sets up tipi poles, feeds people, and fits in. Simple as that.

If, for one minute, he started acting like some sort of "chosen one" who was "adopted" and authorized to do ceremonies, he'd probably lose his welcome. But he doesn't do that. He DOES know the ceremonies, and he respects them, and he works for the people, and so in their hearts Billy's one of 'em. Billy may be the best example of "adoption" into a tribe I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: earthw7 on April 02, 2013, 02:06:36 pm
There are those people who have come and made a place in our hearts,
we have Jack who came to live among us and became a part of us, adopted by many families,
he never disrespected his place among us. he was welcomed at all our ceremonies, his wife and him cooked for ceremonies
never once did he step out of places, I remember one day jack was standing with this white guy and we asked him jack
who was that white guy you were talking to and he told us who he was and said you know that it was really two white guys standing there
i said Jack i never saw you as the white guy. When he died the tribe went and buried him traditional among us because he was one
of us. You would never hear Jack say he had any rights to our ways. That deep respect we had for him that we took care of his widow and
still do today.
I know that there are good people out there among many races of people but just as we know these good people there are those who
will steal everything we have without looking back so we must always be caution. That is why i ask if you are adopted by a tribal member
do you take care of that family? Are you a part of that family? How many time a year do you visit your family?
Remember family is not the tribe nation.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Odelle on June 07, 2013, 03:40:57 am
I have a friend who I admire very much who I guess was *kind of* adopted into one community. He was given a name. He's also a fluent speaker of the community's language and has rights to certain songs. He's not a blood member of the community. He's half non-US Asian country on his father's side and his mother is white and half NDN, but from a different part of the country and he really never had any connection with those people at all, so he doesn't think of himself as part of that community at all.

As a kid, he moved to his adopted community with his mom when she married a member of the community and that guy was the main father figure for my friend, teaching him language and encouraging him to learn about the land and the culture of the land.

Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: Leilehua on April 18, 2014, 10:37:24 am
Aloha kakou! Greetings to us all!
 
I think EducatedIndian has invited me to share some of the NAFs we have in the islands, but I am not comfortable stating specific names. But claims of adoption have been used to give a false authentication to a number of NAFs. So, when I saw this thread on adoption, I thought,"Oh, this is a good place to share mana`o."
 
In Hawaiian culture, we have two forms of adoption:

Hanai - the root word " `ai " indicates feeding. A hanai is generally adopted at a very young age, fed and reared exactly as a hanau (birth child). In fact, part of the hanai ceremony has the hanai parents affirm that they will take full responsibility for the child "from the food that goes into the mouth to the excrement that comes out of the anus."

Ho`okama - the root word "kama," child, is made into a verb. Your ho`okama is generally an adult that you did not rear, but there is such a great bond of affection that you wish this person to be a part of your `ohana, your family. In this case, the adoption is mutual, and the ceremony requires the ho`okama, as well as the makua (parents) and kupuna (elders) to accept all obligations which come with being part of an `ohana.
 
My husband and I have two ho`okama, and we each have one hanau. So, between us, we have four daughters.

Malama pono,
Leilehua
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: earthw7 on May 15, 2014, 01:42:20 pm
it is good to hear other belief in making relatives, :D
I believe making relatives is important to continue our families,
that is why it hurt to see people abuse the adoption ceremonies of our people.
Title: Re: Adoption Ceremonies
Post by: amorYcohetes on June 22, 2014, 11:10:48 pm
This is a little bit different than adoption, but relevant I think.  I was reading my local newspaper and happened on a brief article in the business section giving some basic cross-cultural tips. Although titled "Overseas Travel Tools (http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2014/06/07/business-travel-abroad-requires-research-preparation-and-open-mind/h4o9Dc2uHYDj8urW3ECJgJ/story.html)," I think it's equally relevant to any cross-cultural interaction anywhere. The author comments on generalizing vs. stereotyping, orientation to time, and researching local laws and customs, but the part that struck me was (emphasis mine):
Quote
Decision making.
In some societies, the individual solves problems and makes choices. In a collectivistic society, the individual defers to the group. Even though a person might seem to agree with you, no decision is really possible until the group agrees.
I figured hearing what's said here by posters here based on their cultural values, repeated as pragmatic business advice to those raised in individualistic societies, would reinforce the truth of the message for visitors to this forum.