Thunderbolt Chicamauga/Tsikamagi and ONAC Chickamauga

[educatedindian]

Dennis Payne and his wife Valdora Whiteriver sent me about two dozen rambling facebook messages. After the first I asked him to come here and give his side. The next day I found the two of them had continued ranting on their own for perhaps a half hour after I'd written the single brief message.

So here's some of them, their claims, minus a lot of personal attacks, rants about "racism", and attempts to change the subject.

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DP-ATTACHED is a US FEDERAL DOCUMENT PROVING MY ETHNICITY, (UN EDITED) I have nothing to hide.

This Document is Used  FOR COMMERCE Purposes. to Prove we are an American Indian Entity, Operated By an American INDIAN.

I am WHO I SAY I AM, AND I KNOW WHERE I COME FROM AND WHO MY PEOPLE ARE,   AND I KNOW YOU TOO.

I think, your FRAUD Site, is a Good IDEA, in Theory, but your SOURCES are Inaccurate, and Half-cocked, And RESOURCES INFORMANTS of your FRAUDSITE have accepted Monies From OUR ORGANIZATIONS, YOUR MEMBERS that have taken Payments From Our Organization,
Include, AIM Indiana [followed by long rant of unproven allegations of criminal activity. I won't repost it without actual proof.]

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I answered with:
We always welcome everyone to tell their side of it and provide evidence that could clear these matters up. I'd be esp interested in how you justify assn. with obvious frauds like Mooney and Oklehueva. So kindly join nafps and post. We'll hear your side. I did see there was a split within ONAC and would like to hear more besides what's posted on the ONAC site.

That's when I left FB, and they kept ranting for a half hour more.

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DP-My PHOTO Needs Pulled From Your Site. YOU DO NOT HAVE MY PERMISSION. THIS IS DOCUMENTED, and Will Be Turned Over to Authorities
PRIVACY NOTICE: Warning - any person and/or institution and/or Agent and/or Agency of any governmental structure including but not limited to the United States Federal Government also using or monitoring/using this website or any of its associated websites, you do NOT have my permission to utilize any of my profile information nor any of the content contained herein including, but not limited to my photos, and/or the comments made about my photos or any other "picture" art posted on my profile. You are hereby notified that you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing, disseminating, or taking any other action against me with regard to this profile and the contents herein. The foregoing prohibitions also apply to your employee , agent , student or any personnel under your direction or control. The contents of this profile are private and legally privileged and confidential information, and the violation of my personal privacy is punishable any personnel under your direction or control. The contents of this profile are private and legally privileged and confidential information, and the violation of my personal privacy is punishable by law. UCC 1-103 1-308 THIS MEANS YOU


DP-My Main Question is. WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE DESERVING OF PRISON?  What have me and my Wife done, Deserving of prison?

DP-Proud Of your accomplishments, but not of your actions.

DP-We are Disappointed in you, Brother, and The WITCHHUNT you lead.

VW-You  lied   about me   and  my husband  without  asking me  and   him anything....

DP-I have seen, Several Legitimate People Slandered on your Site,  given, i have seen some that were deserving of such generous Exposure.

DP-as a Teacher of Culture. i would have expect you to RESPECT The OLD WAYS, as you so Seem to Want to Protect,

DP-Respect OUR WAYS., You ask for a picture

DP-My Wife, and I, Have Been Slandered by your Group, and You do Not have my permission to post a Likeness of me.

DP-We Gave you PROOF, we are, Legit. Not to mention, you posted our info. about our "GOOD STANDING" with the state.

DP-My Wife and I, volunteer our time to operate a nonprofit. We help with various groups in INDIANA.
and occasionally Chicago

DP-There was a Split, with, a Heritage Group. with a similiar name A Group, calling themselves. THUNDERBOLTS? are not ONAC

DP-Well, Mooney, Has Proved himself in Federal Court.

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Well he seems to have trouble reading what's actually in this thread. The doc he mentions was a simple notice of being an org in the state.

ETA: Whiteriver has joined us. Hopefully she can add to the story of the split, and how they met and work with Mooney.
ETA again: They are now up to >50 msgs/rants they have sent me on FB. Rather than wade through them, I'm waiting for VW or Payne to speak in their own words. Just glancing at the msgs they'd be embarrassed at some of them were I to repost them here.

[milehighsalute]

i pretty much assume anything with ONAC association is fraud

[Twncryer]

They rant, they rave, they threaten legal action, but of course they will not come here to set any real record straight.  I know of one case on Facebook where they took it upon themselves to harass, and continually badger one poor woman and flood her inbox with the sorts of rants you found on your own Facebook account.  When that person blocked them, they then found others like themselves to find this person, gain friendship, and then trash, harass, and otherwise try to intimidate.  I find it more than interesting, "They have nothing to hide", but Payne insists his picture be removed.  Why not come here in a clear manner to defend his so called "tribe"? Why indeed are they associated with someone like Mooney?  Why are they associated with ONAC which is no Native American NAC at all? Where are Payne's tribal cards, his BIA affiliations?  Oh...he doesn't have them?  Well then he has no business saying he's a NAC.  Registered NACS are all tribal with tribal cards, BIA affiliated.

[Twncryer]

Honestly I think you should post UNEDITED everything they ranted about and embarrass them.  People need to see for themselves who these people are, and their character.

[Twncryer]

A few things need to be filled in.  The original First Nation Chickamauga was run by "Chief Billy".  He became pretty seriously ill, so he vacated his office and it was filled by a man named Bird Spirit AKA Randall Byard.  His so called head mother was a woman named Joli Willow Bland.  Soon after Byard took control it was found out that Joli Willow Bland had misappropriated funds meant for the so called "church".  Along with that, Byard was accused of trying to start his own separate tribe.  There was a huge panic and a fallout.  The group was then divided and split and there was terrible animosity.   Another man stepped up to hold what was left of this "tribe" together.  They continued to use the name First Nation Chickamauga which was highly disputed.  Byard, Billy and the original group accused the splinter faction of stealing the name First Nation Chickamauga, and also accused ONAC of the same.  This spiraled down until Payne's home was attacked and burnt down to the ground while he and his wife were out of the home, possibly  (alleged no proof) done by followers of the original group that is now called Thunderbolt Chickamauga/Tsikamagi.

[Twncryer]

In terms of his photo:
Facebook Photo Copyright

Facebook says: ‘When you publish content or information using the Public setting, it means you are allowing everyone, including people off Facebook, to access and use that information, and to associate it with you (i.e., your name and profile picture).’

Facebook then says that by signing up you ‘grant’ them a ‘non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license’ (subject to your privacy settings) to use any photos and videos you post on Facebook. http://www.facebook.com/legal/terms

[NDEE WOMAN]

Robin Hannon, You Never cease to Surprise me.

[Twncryer]

NDEE I have no idea who that person is you mentioned.  Might want to get your facts straight.  These facts are easily obtained from Facebook itself, including the history.  The group has left a blazing trail including the story itself on Valdora WhiteWater's page of the fire.

[Twncryer]

AND if I might add if it were Robin I'd say cudos to her.  You seem to think that you are not visible and that people do know know what you have been up to.  You might want to note that there are many of us under cover for the express purpose of ferreting out frauds like yourself.  Instead of lurking and making innuendos and accusations why not come out and speak your own "Truths" if you even know the meaning of the word.

[NDEE WOMAN]

Robin Anne Hannon, from Maryland, Yea, its you.

[Twncryer]

Wrong.  I am not from Maryland. I am not Chicano nor Irish.  When you start making such accusations you had better be certain of your facts.  Besides this is simply trying to create a diversion so you do not have to answer for yourselves.
  If you want to talk about facts, state them. If you are from First Nation Chickamauga, stick to the facts of the dialogue here.  Why are you with Mooney?  Do you have a BIA card?  What tribal affiliations do you have?  Where is your reservation? Post here your BIA card. Show proof you are truly NDN, and that you belong to a registered NAC that the BIA has recognized.  Stop hiding in the shadows. If you have a favorite scape goat in this Robin, guess what I'm not her.  On the other hand you have left your messages everywhere for the world to see.  It is right on your council page!  Have you even bothered to read your own words Ms Jacquie Trump?  I know exactly who you are, and you are not going to blame this on the wrong person. What you are doing is both slander and libel of someone who has nothing to do with this to distract from the truths that have been uncovered.  As to the fire it is on Valdora's page.  You have had members come and go, many disgruntled.  People talk, and sooner or later it gets back to us. How hard do you suppose it is for a good investigator to put two and two together? 

[NDEE WOMAN]

Here's a Thought, How about you Scrounge up some money, and Get a Lawyer,  We can Go To Court, and all the Evidence you Seek Will Be there, and Our Lawyers can Talk With a Judge, Because, What you are Requesting, is CHURCH DOCUMENTATION. and only a JUDGE can request that information. So Please Have your Lawyer Contact us.

Please include your False accusations. 

Our Church Contact Info is Registered with the INDIANA SECRETARY OF STATE
 
Sincerely,
-Valdora White Water   
San Carlos/Mescalero Apache of the Red Rock Petruding Clan / and the San Carlos Tsete'ehe' Sdjine' clan,

PS,
-- Please Contact My Reservation Office in San Carlos, AZ. for My Information.

San Carlos Tribal Office 1-928-475-2361
Mescalero Tribal Office 1-575-464-4494

[Twncryer]

You have the right to tell us your story.  Instead you come here and blame some other innocent person who has nothing to do with this.  Instead of blaming and trying to find a scapegoat, enlighten us. Instead of hiding behind your fake church and claiming it's "church documentation." this is your opportunity to set it right.
 A church is not a tribe.  If you are not BIA you are as fake as it gets in spite of what Indiana recognizes.  If you have nothing to hide, put your entire story here.  We will give it equal time. 
Everything you are doing is a smoke screen to try to deflect, and all you are succeeding at, is proving our point.  When you have nothing to hide you should have no problem telling your story and vindicating yourself.  I for one would be very interested in hearing what you have to say when you are not hiding behind your fake church.

[Twncryer]

And Ms Whitewater why did you not identify yourself right away?  Why bring yet another unknown person into this thing and assume it was them?  Rather than spout accusations you have a rare opportunity to set the record straight, and all you can do is talk "lawyer".  It seems to me you are afraid, and are trying to intimidate by using the word lawyer, law suit, slander, libel, but yet you refuse to give us your side of this thing. 

Frankly I'm not intimidated, I'm disgusted with this and with you.

[NDEE WOMAN]

I do have to admit. your sense of humor, exposing ALTON. Thanks for your hardwork keeping us all safe from him. lol.

 Please don't forget to have your lawyer contact us. So We Can Clear Up these Matters. I would love to see what you look like in court. Not to mention, I can at least meet my accusers Face to Face, Legally, and Peacefully,  Let us Be Sure to get everything COURT CASE RECOGNIZED and OFFICIALLY DOCUMENTED With The Courts, Making things Completely PUBLIC,

PS
 Be Sure To Submit your list of Witnesses , we don't want you leaving anyone out. I am sure they want to meet with us to resolve this.   





I am So Excited I may get a chance to meet you guys.


-VALDORA WHITE WATER